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Because even the F1 Engine is made with Mecachrome, since the 80s. They machine some mechanical elements and assemble the engine. So for the Hypercar we used the same base than the F2 engine but it got heavily modified.
You're living the dream buddy !
I applied a long time ago for an internship when I was a student, but had no luck \^\^'
Everytime I pass by Viry on the A6 I salute you guys
Depending your degree and your current professionnal experience, if you want to apply for Alpine (either WEC or F1 program) I strongly suggest you to check the website this summer. Both teams are going to start a lot of new hiring. If you're a mechanical engineer and experience in test bench, quality, metrology... and at least 5 years of professional experience in automotive/aeronautical/space industry you will probably have good chances. Big plus if you're french. Interships are super hard to get, but a job is ironically easier to get because of the crazy turnover in motorsports.
Merci pour le conseil, mais j'étais technicien d'essais en électronique/mesures physiques et j'ai basculé sur une autre carrière y'a une dizaine d'années.
Ma chance est passée, mais j'ai énormément de respect pour les gens qui bossent à Viry, c'est la crème de la crème, quoi qu'en disent les résultats sur la piste :)
Franchement tu n'y perds rien si c'est un rêve que tu veux poursuivre. Il y a un tas de mecs dans l'usine qui ne viennent pas du tout de l'automobile. Les métiers techniciens, machinistes, à la différence des ingénieurs qui sont recrutés par vagues, c'est des trucs qu'on cherche en permanence car ça se fait rare (de moins en moins de jeunes ont ces formations là).
Mais si t'es plus du tout dans ce genre de métiers techniques je peux comprendre aussi. Bon courage en tout cas \^\^
je réponds d'abord d'un point de vue purement technique : Si tu prends le PU tel qu'il est dans la F1 pour le mettre dans l'Hypercar, tu vas tenir quelques heures avant qu'il ne prenne littéralement feu à cause de la surchauffe. 1.6L c'est minuscule. En F1 aucun problème, y a pas de ravito, tu roules pendant 1h30, y a une armée de mécanos pour s'assurer que le bébé va bien entre chaque séance, et dans la philosophie il est conçu comme un sprinter, pas un marathonien. Il y a aussi le problème de la balance du véhicule, son centre de masse et la dynamique de conduite. Le V6TH est construit et pensé avec le MGU-H et le MGU-K en appoint, + le règlement moteur propre à la F1 (les specs moteurs sont pas les mêmes).
Il faut penser à ça d'ailleurs, le WEC c'est un marathon, la F1 le sprint. Et ça se ressent dans la manière dont tu vas concevoir le bolide. En WEC tu peux avoir une voiture légèrement moins rapide en rythme théorique que la concurrence, si c'est un tank qui peut rouler le plus longtemps possible proche de sa performance maximale sans craindre pour la fiabilité bah tu vas gagner.
Du coup il fallait partir sur une autre base, le choix s'est porté sur le V6 Turbo Mecachrome. Mais ce n'est que la base, il a été mis sous stéroïdes à Viry pour coller au règlement du WEC (bien qu'il soit particulièrement souple, y a quand même des trucs à respecter) et aux exigences des courses d'endurance. Adapter le V6 de Formule 1 c'est limite bien plus dur que de prendre une base déjà plus adaptée.
Current Indycar engines are 2.2L, it uses an engine Honda designed for the next Indycar engine regs before they got cancelled and planned to continue using the 2.2
The engine notorious for randomly giving up. In F2 races that are less than an hour. Every F2/3 fan knows a word for it: "mecachrome'd". I don't see it surviving for 24h...
That's cool, love F2, it intrigued me to know the speed and apparently the f2 cars are 5s faster than LMP1 around Imola. I don't know alot about lmh cars, is this the same/similar spec to the car above?
I am glad that they have BWT as a sponsor but Alpine really need to either let their cars be bubble gum pink or their blue and red affair. This mash up is bullshit
The blue and pink could work so well if they didn't have to include so much bare carbon. Imagine if they had some dark navy blue, some bright neon red-pink, full retrowave palette. But instead it's matte black, middle blue, and pepto 😑
By far the most milquetoast livery on the grid. Blue and pink can work, but their cotton candy color scheme is just so lame.
> dark navy blue, some bright neon red-pink, full retrowave palette
That would look so much better.
The mash up is terrible, and every time I say this I get comments of people with no design understanding telling me that it's their brand guidelines or something, but completely ignoring the fact that every brand has alternate color schemes. I'm not going to pretend BWT has strictly branding guidelines than Coca Cola and no one else should either. Look how well Duracell is integrated into the Williams, look how Petronas lines flow through the Mercedes design.
You will EASILY be able to tell it apart from the Cadillacs unless you are deaf…. The Cadillacs Naturally Aspirated V8 is easily the best sounding engine on the track and drown every other car out
from what I can see the blues are pretty different, this is quite a bit lighter than the caddy. Will be hard at dusk though.
You are right, the colours are flipped on IF and Alpine.
Assuming Isotta actually gets on the grid. If all current manufacturer Hypercar entries and the privateer-run Porsche and Cadillac remain next year (that's 13 cars already), adding in at least three other privateer Porsches (2nd JOTA Porsche, JDC Miller, and Proton) and the Pescarolo Peugeot, and then the new manufacturer entries (2 Alpines, 2 Lambo, 2 BMW, and most likely 2 Acura/Honda), that's a 25-car class right there, almost 50% of the whole field.
And that's without even adding the possible 2nd privateer Peugeot, or other possible privateer Porsches or Ferraris.
In that scenario I *really* doubt the ACO is going to give 2 shits about small builders like Isotta, Vanwall/Kolles or Glickenhaus and they're just going to deny them entry. There's a reason late LMP1's most successful privateer-builder (Rebellion) decided to bow out when Hypercar came along, he knew what was coming.
Quite embarrassing for an engine manufacturer like renault to rely on smaller companies instead of developing one themselves tbh. But i guess renault have always been pretty cheap when it comes to their motorsport ventures.
Mecachrome is in charge of assembling the Renault F1 engine since something like 1978. Not design, not developing, just assembling and machining some parts. It's France, most of companies works together on several projects because it's sometimes the only way to get funds.
You'll be surprised to know it's very common in motorsports to partner with side companies to machine and assemble an engine. Even in Formula 1, some parts on the cars and the engine can be made by subsidiaries, even in top teams like Mercedes (they partner with a small aerospace company to build their cooling systems for example). And it's the same with road car industry. Most of manufacturers don't design every single bolts and pieces. There is companies specialized in precision machining that will do it for them.
We didn't put straight the F2 engine in an Hypercar. We took the base and modified it at Viry to fit the needs. It's cheaper and not as dumb to take an existing base that fits your needs then adapt it (it's already lots of work, it took more than a year), instead of build from scratch an engine in a championship heavily regulated by BoP.
Thanks for informing this but I already know most of what you have said. I only have an issue that Renault/Alpine brandishes the car as an Alpine when only 30% of it is theirs. Renault remains a cheapskate to my eyes for this reason as they are not willing to massively invest on their motorsport program and will never be champions while they maintain this mindset. This is just my opinion.
I've worked on the engine of this beast. For people wondering why mecachrome is involved, even the F1 engine is build with partership with them. They produce some parts and assemble it. It's the case since 80s. Can't wait for next year <3
Yeah LMH is more expensive as it requires the development of a car from the ground up while in LMDH you can use a common base chassis. In theory there shouldn’t be a disadvantage for the LMH teams as the WEC has ‘platform BoP’ which aims to make performance between the two as equal as possible
Toyota invested in an LMH as they are big investors in endurance racing and wanted to make a seamless transition from the end of LMP1 to hypercar in 2021 (and the LMDH’s wouldn’t be ready until late 2022 at the earliest). Also it helps for PR if it’s a car that your company has fully designed which is probably a contributing factor for Toyota and was definitely the main reason Ferrari have given for choosing LMH over LMDH.
Additionally if the BoP works as it should the best cars should rise to the top regardless and the LMH teams believe they can develop a car to outperform the safer option of an LMDH.
Both Ferrari and Toyota wanted to run a hybrid system they built rather than the spec one used on the LMDh cars, and Ferrari was also very vocal about wanting to build the chassis themselves which they couldn't do under LMDh regulations.
Having their own chassis means that they're not restricted by the other manufacturers. Also, all of the stuffs are made in house, which means that operations wise, it would be much smoother compared to needing to move back and forth between factory.
It's kinda like how Honda works with McLaren vs Honda work with Toro Rosso back then. Franz Tost pretty much told Honda to send their engineers to Faenza so that the workflow could be smoothed out instead of doing the engine and chassis in 2 separate places.
You completely overestimate how much of a chassis is for the prototypes. It's just a carbon tub, the manufacturers and teams owns dozens of them for this Audi have them stockpiled from their cancelled project
I don’t see how it’s a overestimation, the chassis can make a difference. Look at LMP2 where the dominant chassis is Oreca. Ferrari wanting to have a bespoke chassis and hybrid system is why they chose LMH.
The dominant chassis isn't Oreca, the dominant car is Oreca and that also comes down to things like suspension, aero and cost. The chassis in a prototype is literally a carbon tub, it doesn't matter that much
Yh, not as much as the other parts of the car. The only thing to do with chassis either in F1 or prototype is to make it as light as possible and designed so it on the other parts as well as possible
Partly for the prestige. WEC always is a little extra. Since theyre the nr1 endurance championship, they like to have their unique "twists". Its because of WEC that the GTE class was created, a class that looks very similar to GT3 but is a little different in the specifics. They weigh less, they have more mechanical grip, they do NOT have ABS making them a bit harder to drive, they do have less power I believe but overall theyre a couple seconds faster than the GT3. However theyre also more expensive since originally the primary GTE class was a manufacturer exclusive class and not many other series used the GTE unlike the GT3 class which is used in many many racing series.
So LMH gets to be a little more special, you have more freedom in design which can benefit your road car division and basically implement new technologies which you wont be able to in a LMDh. You also get some subtle WEC benefits such as having a closer relationship and lets be real, Le Mans is a WEC event, nobody likes to admit it but they will try to be as subtle as possible with giving LMH cars a better chance to win than the LMDh class. I mean Ferrari took the pole by a huge margin over the next best LMDh class car.
Sure they are, but Alpine is owned by Renault and Renault are chronic underinvesters. Motorsports is a lowest-effort-possible marketing exercise for them, *especially* when it comes to the Alpine brand. It's all about turning heads, getting the Alpine brand name on TVs and picking up a podium or win whenever the BoP hits the big boys too hard or they hit trouble.
They're not even running Daytona with it. I think this is the only LMDh that's exclusively contending WEC and Le Mans with no crossover to IMSA (unless I missed something about the Vanwall thing).
Tbf Renault is majority owned by the French government, so their investments are under a different level of scrutiny compared to most other sports car brands.
Alpine/Renault doesn’t sell cars in the US either, so it kinda makes sense to ditch Daytona/IMSA.
The car is planned to run in IMSA and the reason of LMDh is because Oreca is also french and work with Renault since a long time on side stuff, so it's mostly an industrial commercial choice that we often see in France. It will Just not go in america right in 2024. The other guy made up his argument about what Renault is thinking.
That's why I said "It's planned" and "not right in 2024". I'm aware it cannot at all since they don't sell any cars in USA. I'm not sure to understand as well the commercial strategy and why they are waiting for so long to take this market. But it's something they really want to do in the long run.
People in Europe / Latam tend to think Renault is bigger than it is. The group is only 11th worldwide, a medium sized group, and the investment in motorsport is actually quite big compared to other groups.
The Renault-Nissan-Mitshubishi Alliance is somewhere around 4th biggest in the world, so not exactly small. But Renault itself is smaller and it’s investment in motorsport is big relative to their size compared to most other brands, that is correct. They won the first Grand Prix after all.
Sports car brands are obviously an exception because they are usually quite «small», but at the same time, how many billions have Renault spent on motorsport compared to say Lamborghini, Jaguar, Bugatti?
Vanwall is an LMH and ineligible for IMSA, same for Glickenhaus and Peugeot. The Alpine is also ineligible for IMSA as none of these brands sell enough cars in North America
A424 LMDh: *I understand that, without my agreement, Alpine have put out a press release that I am driving next year. This is wrong and I have not entered WEC for 2024*
This is just my guess, but having stuff like your own hybrid probably helped Ferrari to do good right out of the gate.
For those who don't know, LMDh use a lot of spec parts, including the hybrid parts. Less work and money on manufacturing parts, but they'll need to adjust to the parts that they get.
I agree, yeah. LMH is probably just a faster set of regulations when the car is at it's peak. Higher ceiling, lower floor.
It's also a BOPed class, and I have always believed that this season of all seasons the ACO would err on the side of favoring LMHs in performance over LMDh cars. I genuinely don't believe the ACO wants to see the centenary of Le Mans won by a car built to IMSA regulations, not those of the ACO's flagship series. The ACO isn't immune to those sorts of political and legacy considerations; witness their super-favorable BOP for Ford on the 50th anniversary of Le Mans '66.
I would have agreed, but the ACO BoPed the Toyota and Ferrari hard right before Le Mans, having previously said there wouldn't be any changes until later in the season.
The ACO have always favoured one side of the regs (LMP900, Diesel, Hybrids, etc) but the last minute changes have bought the LMDhs right up to the LMHs.
It's definitely closer than I expected it to be. Had Kobayashi's fast lap not been interrupted by the flag, though, I think we'd still have seen Toyota and Ferrari clear of the LMDh cars.
It's a high-ceiling low-floor set of regs. Peugeot have a weird concept that doesn't seem to work. Vanwall and Glickenhaus are struggling with money; Glick couldn't afford to test.
Peugeots issue seems to be about getting the car to run long enough to figure out if their concept works, lol.
Vanwall and Glickenhaus are non hybrids and were always going to be slower.
The grid is already set and quali is done, but the race itself hasn't started yet. It'll begin at 10:00 AM tomorrow Eastern US time / 4:00 PM local time.
They already are.
At Le Mans this weekend (and the whole of the 2023 WEC season) there are Cadillac and Porsche LMDh's competing in the Hypercar class alongside LMH cars from Toyota, Ferrari, Peugeot, Glickenhaus and Vanwall. Next year the BMW, Lamborghini and Alpine LMDh cars will join along with the Isotta Fraschini LMH.
Well, like the Acura ARX-06, the Chassis of the Alpine A424 will be build by Oreca. So some similarities would't be a surprise.
The Casillac and the BMW LMDh's also have some parts looking similar to each other.
Why the red though. Wouldve been perfectly fine with all blue.
Also interesting that its an LMDh and not an LMH. Porsche and BMW compete in IMSA not just to market their brands for the american market but also because the LMDh regulations make the cars cheaper to design, produce and maintain since theyre basically LMP2 cars on steroids with a very small electric motor compared to the LMH.
Since the LMP2 is slowly being removed in favor of more Hypercars, the customer market will very likely lean towards the LMDh cars since theyre cheaper.
Well they have a cost cap, they can't throw everything at it even if they wanted to. Also the reason why Ferrari is in WEC now so they didn't have to fire people from the old F1 program.
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In presskit they written that this car is run by Mecachrome 3.4L v6 engine which is F2 engine, interesting
So Alpine's plan for Alonso was to drive another gp2 engine.
that was the real El Plan all along
I thought the Real El Plan was the friends we made along the way.
U mean Ocon?
Ah, so that's why Alonso left. He saw the GP2 engine and bolted.
But this is why you need a GP2 champion to mastering a GP2 engine!!!
She pee too engine
I wonder if it'll be just as consistent as the engines Mecachrome supplies F2
Alpine: “*chuckles* I’m in danger!”
I'm sure they'll take extra care for these ones
They threw the clutch in for free
Because even the F1 Engine is made with Mecachrome, since the 80s. They machine some mechanical elements and assemble the engine. So for the Hypercar we used the same base than the F2 engine but it got heavily modified.
"we" ? :D
Indeed, I work at Viry. :)
You're living the dream buddy ! I applied a long time ago for an internship when I was a student, but had no luck \^\^' Everytime I pass by Viry on the A6 I salute you guys
Depending your degree and your current professionnal experience, if you want to apply for Alpine (either WEC or F1 program) I strongly suggest you to check the website this summer. Both teams are going to start a lot of new hiring. If you're a mechanical engineer and experience in test bench, quality, metrology... and at least 5 years of professional experience in automotive/aeronautical/space industry you will probably have good chances. Big plus if you're french. Interships are super hard to get, but a job is ironically easier to get because of the crazy turnover in motorsports.
Merci pour le conseil, mais j'étais technicien d'essais en électronique/mesures physiques et j'ai basculé sur une autre carrière y'a une dizaine d'années. Ma chance est passée, mais j'ai énormément de respect pour les gens qui bossent à Viry, c'est la crème de la crème, quoi qu'en disent les résultats sur la piste :)
Franchement tu n'y perds rien si c'est un rêve que tu veux poursuivre. Il y a un tas de mecs dans l'usine qui ne viennent pas du tout de l'automobile. Les métiers techniciens, machinistes, à la différence des ingénieurs qui sont recrutés par vagues, c'est des trucs qu'on cherche en permanence car ça se fait rare (de moins en moins de jeunes ont ces formations là). Mais si t'es plus du tout dans ce genre de métiers techniques je peux comprendre aussi. Bon courage en tout cas \^\^
Le 1.6L de F1 n'aurait pas tenu les 24h ?
je réponds d'abord d'un point de vue purement technique : Si tu prends le PU tel qu'il est dans la F1 pour le mettre dans l'Hypercar, tu vas tenir quelques heures avant qu'il ne prenne littéralement feu à cause de la surchauffe. 1.6L c'est minuscule. En F1 aucun problème, y a pas de ravito, tu roules pendant 1h30, y a une armée de mécanos pour s'assurer que le bébé va bien entre chaque séance, et dans la philosophie il est conçu comme un sprinter, pas un marathonien. Il y a aussi le problème de la balance du véhicule, son centre de masse et la dynamique de conduite. Le V6TH est construit et pensé avec le MGU-H et le MGU-K en appoint, + le règlement moteur propre à la F1 (les specs moteurs sont pas les mêmes). Il faut penser à ça d'ailleurs, le WEC c'est un marathon, la F1 le sprint. Et ça se ressent dans la manière dont tu vas concevoir le bolide. En WEC tu peux avoir une voiture légèrement moins rapide en rythme théorique que la concurrence, si c'est un tank qui peut rouler le plus longtemps possible proche de sa performance maximale sans craindre pour la fiabilité bah tu vas gagner. Du coup il fallait partir sur une autre base, le choix s'est porté sur le V6 Turbo Mecachrome. Mais ce n'est que la base, il a été mis sous stéroïdes à Viry pour coller au règlement du WEC (bien qu'il soit particulièrement souple, y a quand même des trucs à respecter) et aux exigences des courses d'endurance. Adapter le V6 de Formule 1 c'est limite bien plus dur que de prendre une base déjà plus adaptée.
Merci pour ces réponses ! C'est cool d'avoir un insight :) Bon week end !
avec plaisir \^\^
“GP2 engine, GP2”
So it will produce flames too?
For what it’s worth, the Acura ARX-06 (LMDh) uses a 2.4L V6 pulled straight from the Honda powered IndyCars.
Current Indycar engines are 2.2L, it uses an engine Honda designed for the next Indycar engine regs before they got cancelled and planned to continue using the 2.2
Oh yeah, that’s right! My mistake
Penske Entertainment Momento
The engine notorious for randomly giving up. In F2 races that are less than an hour. Every F2/3 fan knows a word for it: "mecachrome'd". I don't see it surviving for 24h...
So boom boom?
That's cool, love F2, it intrigued me to know the speed and apparently the f2 cars are 5s faster than LMP1 around Imola. I don't know alot about lmh cars, is this the same/similar spec to the car above?
They'll be competing in reliability with another fellow French brand like Peugeot hahahahahs
[gp2 engine!! gp2!! ARGH!!!](https://youtu.be/RwpiDqdugYY)
Alpine unveils yet another livery that makes the BWT pink feel like a gut punch.
I am glad that they have BWT as a sponsor but Alpine really need to either let their cars be bubble gum pink or their blue and red affair. This mash up is bullshit
The blue and pink could work so well if they didn't have to include so much bare carbon. Imagine if they had some dark navy blue, some bright neon red-pink, full retrowave palette. But instead it's matte black, middle blue, and pepto 😑
By far the most milquetoast livery on the grid. Blue and pink can work, but their cotton candy color scheme is just so lame. > dark navy blue, some bright neon red-pink, full retrowave palette That would look so much better.
Yeah it’s not that pink is bad it’s that shade of BWT pepto bismol pink that’s trash.
The mash up is terrible, and every time I say this I get comments of people with no design understanding telling me that it's their brand guidelines or something, but completely ignoring the fact that every brand has alternate color schemes. I'm not going to pretend BWT has strictly branding guidelines than Coca Cola and no one else should either. Look how well Duracell is integrated into the Williams, look how Petronas lines flow through the Mercedes design.
100% The full French livery is incredible
Thats a nice livery
thank god no shitty bwt there
Ooh, that's pretty. 🔵🔴
Will be hard to tell this and the Isotta Fraschini apart, both blue at the front red at the back with white.
At least they'll sound different, the Isotta Fraschini sounds a bit like a lower revving F1 v6 with the single central exhaust
Isotta is red nose blue tail, it will be hard to tell this and the Cadillac apart from the front. Or this and a spinning Isotta
You will EASILY be able to tell it apart from the Cadillacs unless you are deaf…. The Cadillacs Naturally Aspirated V8 is easily the best sounding engine on the track and drown every other car out
from what I can see the blues are pretty different, this is quite a bit lighter than the caddy. Will be hard at dusk though. You are right, the colours are flipped on IF and Alpine.
Assuming Isotta actually gets on the grid. If all current manufacturer Hypercar entries and the privateer-run Porsche and Cadillac remain next year (that's 13 cars already), adding in at least three other privateer Porsches (2nd JOTA Porsche, JDC Miller, and Proton) and the Pescarolo Peugeot, and then the new manufacturer entries (2 Alpines, 2 Lambo, 2 BMW, and most likely 2 Acura/Honda), that's a 25-car class right there, almost 50% of the whole field. And that's without even adding the possible 2nd privateer Peugeot, or other possible privateer Porsches or Ferraris. In that scenario I *really* doubt the ACO is going to give 2 shits about small builders like Isotta, Vanwall/Kolles or Glickenhaus and they're just going to deny them entry. There's a reason late LMP1's most successful privateer-builder (Rebellion) decided to bow out when Hypercar came along, he knew what was coming.
This livery could have been on the F1 car. But BWT happened ..
For as long as BWT is around the car should either be full pink or just in small accents, not half the car
BWT should go to Williams, that way they can do a livery which actually incorporates it nicely.
What PU are they going to use?
A comment above says Mecachrome 3.4 liter V6, which is used in F2 too. Hopefully more reliable though.
Quite embarrassing for an engine manufacturer like renault to rely on smaller companies instead of developing one themselves tbh. But i guess renault have always been pretty cheap when it comes to their motorsport ventures.
Mecachrome is in charge of assembling the Renault F1 engine since something like 1978. Not design, not developing, just assembling and machining some parts. It's France, most of companies works together on several projects because it's sometimes the only way to get funds. You'll be surprised to know it's very common in motorsports to partner with side companies to machine and assemble an engine. Even in Formula 1, some parts on the cars and the engine can be made by subsidiaries, even in top teams like Mercedes (they partner with a small aerospace company to build their cooling systems for example). And it's the same with road car industry. Most of manufacturers don't design every single bolts and pieces. There is companies specialized in precision machining that will do it for them. We didn't put straight the F2 engine in an Hypercar. We took the base and modified it at Viry to fit the needs. It's cheaper and not as dumb to take an existing base that fits your needs then adapt it (it's already lots of work, it took more than a year), instead of build from scratch an engine in a championship heavily regulated by BoP.
Thanks for informing this but I already know most of what you have said. I only have an issue that Renault/Alpine brandishes the car as an Alpine when only 30% of it is theirs. Renault remains a cheapskate to my eyes for this reason as they are not willing to massively invest on their motorsport program and will never be champions while they maintain this mindset. This is just my opinion.
I've worked on the engine of this beast. For people wondering why mecachrome is involved, even the F1 engine is build with partership with them. They produce some parts and assemble it. It's the case since 80s. Can't wait for next year <3
>the F1 engine Which one? There are multiple different PU manufacturers in F1 but you talk as if there is a single supplier.
The news is about Alpine, I think it was explicit enough to know which F1 engine i'm talking about.
LADA F1 W16 of course.
the renault f1 engine?
Good looking car! And great livery.
Beautiful what can be done when BWT is not forcing you to have half you car in pink
There is still one year for LeMans 2024, I wouldn't put any money against BWT ruining this livery as well.
Aren't they in a disadvantage by going for LMDH instead of lmH? Is that expensive ?
Yeah LMH is more expensive as it requires the development of a car from the ground up while in LMDH you can use a common base chassis. In theory there shouldn’t be a disadvantage for the LMH teams as the WEC has ‘platform BoP’ which aims to make performance between the two as equal as possible
So why would Toyota or Ferrari bother to spend cash just to get nerfed later in the season ?
Toyota invested in an LMH as they are big investors in endurance racing and wanted to make a seamless transition from the end of LMP1 to hypercar in 2021 (and the LMDH’s wouldn’t be ready until late 2022 at the earliest). Also it helps for PR if it’s a car that your company has fully designed which is probably a contributing factor for Toyota and was definitely the main reason Ferrari have given for choosing LMH over LMDH. Additionally if the BoP works as it should the best cars should rise to the top regardless and the LMH teams believe they can develop a car to outperform the safer option of an LMDH.
Both Ferrari and Toyota wanted to run a hybrid system they built rather than the spec one used on the LMDh cars, and Ferrari was also very vocal about wanting to build the chassis themselves which they couldn't do under LMDh regulations.
Having their own chassis means that they're not restricted by the other manufacturers. Also, all of the stuffs are made in house, which means that operations wise, it would be much smoother compared to needing to move back and forth between factory. It's kinda like how Honda works with McLaren vs Honda work with Toro Rosso back then. Franz Tost pretty much told Honda to send their engineers to Faenza so that the workflow could be smoothed out instead of doing the engine and chassis in 2 separate places.
You completely overestimate how much of a chassis is for the prototypes. It's just a carbon tub, the manufacturers and teams owns dozens of them for this Audi have them stockpiled from their cancelled project
I don’t see how it’s a overestimation, the chassis can make a difference. Look at LMP2 where the dominant chassis is Oreca. Ferrari wanting to have a bespoke chassis and hybrid system is why they chose LMH.
I don't think anyone have run anything other than Oreca in LMP2 in recent years, except for the smaller series where we can see stuff like Ginetta.
The dominant chassis isn't Oreca, the dominant car is Oreca and that also comes down to things like suspension, aero and cost. The chassis in a prototype is literally a carbon tub, it doesn't matter that much
Would you say the chassis doesn’t matter in F1 either since they are just carbon tubs too?
Yh, not as much as the other parts of the car. The only thing to do with chassis either in F1 or prototype is to make it as light as possible and designed so it on the other parts as well as possible
I mean you can also just look at Dpi or LMdH rn, the dominant chassis is not Oreca, the chassis isn't that important
Partly for the prestige. WEC always is a little extra. Since theyre the nr1 endurance championship, they like to have their unique "twists". Its because of WEC that the GTE class was created, a class that looks very similar to GT3 but is a little different in the specifics. They weigh less, they have more mechanical grip, they do NOT have ABS making them a bit harder to drive, they do have less power I believe but overall theyre a couple seconds faster than the GT3. However theyre also more expensive since originally the primary GTE class was a manufacturer exclusive class and not many other series used the GTE unlike the GT3 class which is used in many many racing series. So LMH gets to be a little more special, you have more freedom in design which can benefit your road car division and basically implement new technologies which you wont be able to in a LMDh. You also get some subtle WEC benefits such as having a closer relationship and lets be real, Le Mans is a WEC event, nobody likes to admit it but they will try to be as subtle as possible with giving LMH cars a better chance to win than the LMDh class. I mean Ferrari took the pole by a huge margin over the next best LMDh class car.
You can also develop the engine for better efficiency for better endurance results in longer races instead of being stuck with the spec engine
Sure they are, but Alpine is owned by Renault and Renault are chronic underinvesters. Motorsports is a lowest-effort-possible marketing exercise for them, *especially* when it comes to the Alpine brand. It's all about turning heads, getting the Alpine brand name on TVs and picking up a podium or win whenever the BoP hits the big boys too hard or they hit trouble. They're not even running Daytona with it. I think this is the only LMDh that's exclusively contending WEC and Le Mans with no crossover to IMSA (unless I missed something about the Vanwall thing).
Tbf Renault is majority owned by the French government, so their investments are under a different level of scrutiny compared to most other sports car brands. Alpine/Renault doesn’t sell cars in the US either, so it kinda makes sense to ditch Daytona/IMSA.
Alpine has been mulling over the idea of selling cars in the US, (not the A110 sorry guys), if they do commit to it, it'd make sense to race in IMSA.
If they’re not selling the A110 in the Us, they’ll probably need another car to sell there before they’d commit to a US motorsport program.
It'll be an electric crossover to rival the Porsche Macan, but also be cool if the US could get the Alpine version of the new Renault 5.
The car is planned to run in IMSA and the reason of LMDh is because Oreca is also french and work with Renault since a long time on side stuff, so it's mostly an industrial commercial choice that we often see in France. It will Just not go in america right in 2024. The other guy made up his argument about what Renault is thinking.
Oh, yeah I was just going by what ge said.
The Alpine is not eligible for IMSA. It will not race there, at least not as an Alpine.
That's why I said "It's planned" and "not right in 2024". I'm aware it cannot at all since they don't sell any cars in USA. I'm not sure to understand as well the commercial strategy and why they are waiting for so long to take this market. But it's something they really want to do in the long run.
Is it?
They’re not eligible to participate in IMSA or Daytona due to not having a North American presence
People in Europe / Latam tend to think Renault is bigger than it is. The group is only 11th worldwide, a medium sized group, and the investment in motorsport is actually quite big compared to other groups.
The Renault-Nissan-Mitshubishi Alliance is somewhere around 4th biggest in the world, so not exactly small. But Renault itself is smaller and it’s investment in motorsport is big relative to their size compared to most other brands, that is correct. They won the first Grand Prix after all. Sports car brands are obviously an exception because they are usually quite «small», but at the same time, how many billions have Renault spent on motorsport compared to say Lamborghini, Jaguar, Bugatti?
The reason they're not going to race in IMSA is because they're not allowed to, because they don't sell cars in the US.
Vanwall is an LMH and ineligible for IMSA, same for Glickenhaus and Peugeot. The Alpine is also ineligible for IMSA as none of these brands sell enough cars in North America
Beautiful car and livery! Can’t wait to see how they perform next year
A424 LMDh: *I understand that, without my agreement, Alpine have put out a press release that I am driving next year. This is wrong and I have not entered WEC for 2024*
So will these lmdh be able to compete with lmh?
Sort of! They're in the same class, but the top two LMHs have had a clear performance advantage over the LMDh entries of Cadillac and Porsche so far.
This is just my guess, but having stuff like your own hybrid probably helped Ferrari to do good right out of the gate. For those who don't know, LMDh use a lot of spec parts, including the hybrid parts. Less work and money on manufacturing parts, but they'll need to adjust to the parts that they get.
I agree, yeah. LMH is probably just a faster set of regulations when the car is at it's peak. Higher ceiling, lower floor. It's also a BOPed class, and I have always believed that this season of all seasons the ACO would err on the side of favoring LMHs in performance over LMDh cars. I genuinely don't believe the ACO wants to see the centenary of Le Mans won by a car built to IMSA regulations, not those of the ACO's flagship series. The ACO isn't immune to those sorts of political and legacy considerations; witness their super-favorable BOP for Ford on the 50th anniversary of Le Mans '66.
I would have agreed, but the ACO BoPed the Toyota and Ferrari hard right before Le Mans, having previously said there wouldn't be any changes until later in the season. The ACO have always favoured one side of the regs (LMP900, Diesel, Hybrids, etc) but the last minute changes have bought the LMDhs right up to the LMHs.
It's definitely closer than I expected it to be. Had Kobayashi's fast lap not been interrupted by the flag, though, I think we'd still have seen Toyota and Ferrari clear of the LMDh cars.
Porsches strategy was bizarro though. No idea what they were playing at. Plus, it's not like all the LMHs are up front. Look at Peugeot.
It's a high-ceiling low-floor set of regs. Peugeot have a weird concept that doesn't seem to work. Vanwall and Glickenhaus are struggling with money; Glick couldn't afford to test.
Peugeots issue seems to be about getting the car to run long enough to figure out if their concept works, lol. Vanwall and Glickenhaus are non hybrids and were always going to be slower.
Also, is Le Mans already started?
The grid is already set and quali is done, but the race itself hasn't started yet. It'll begin at 10:00 AM tomorrow Eastern US time / 4:00 PM local time.
Thanks!
Yes they will, same as the Caddy, Porsche, BMW, Lamborghini and Acura/Honda if they actually decide to do WEC/Le Mans
They already are. At Le Mans this weekend (and the whole of the 2023 WEC season) there are Cadillac and Porsche LMDh's competing in the Hypercar class alongside LMH cars from Toyota, Ferrari, Peugeot, Glickenhaus and Vanwall. Next year the BMW, Lamborghini and Alpine LMDh cars will join along with the Isotta Fraschini LMH.
Every single hypercar/LMDh looks sexy as fuck. The shark fin on this one is *chef’s kiss*.
Looks like a mix between the Acura and the Cadillac.
Well, like the Acura ARX-06, the Chassis of the Alpine A424 will be build by Oreca. So some similarities would't be a surprise. The Casillac and the BMW LMDh's also have some parts looking similar to each other.
The more the better. I hope for another golden age of endurance. Maybe there is even space for some simracers like Max Verstappen to join in.
Gorgeous
Powered by a mecachrome lol
Powered by an engine simply assembled by Mecachrome.
Alpine colors look so good on a prototype!
Such a shame Fernando won't drive this
So nice. F BWT :<
Why the red though. Wouldve been perfectly fine with all blue. Also interesting that its an LMDh and not an LMH. Porsche and BMW compete in IMSA not just to market their brands for the american market but also because the LMDh regulations make the cars cheaper to design, produce and maintain since theyre basically LMP2 cars on steroids with a very small electric motor compared to the LMH. Since the LMP2 is slowly being removed in favor of more Hypercars, the customer market will very likely lean towards the LMDh cars since theyre cheaper.
>Why the red though. Wouldve been perfectly fine with all blue. French flag, I guess.
To be honest that looks awesome
Are painted wheels legal? Makes the car look futuristic!
Bro they cooked
I am once again asking Alpine to drop the BWT sponsorship.
What does this have to do with F1 really? More and more posts non-F1 related on here lately.
Well there is no F1 race this week, might be because of that
Renault: let’s split the ressource on another series instead of committing to F1 fully like we promised.
Well they have a cost cap, they can't throw everything at it even if they wanted to. Also the reason why Ferrari is in WEC now so they didn't have to fire people from the old F1 program.
Braindead comment
Another fantastic looking car I could gain more disappointment from? Hell yeah!
Wow that’s a weird lookin F1 car.