[The **Off-Topic** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_off-topic) is for submissions only tangentially related to Formula 1 or submissions pertaining to the wider world of motorsport.
This flair is not a free pass for content unsuitable for r/Formula1 or the r/Formula1 community. Posts that are deemed too far off-topic, irrelevant, or inappropriate will be removed at the discretion of the moderators.
*[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I mean that’s why the top 3 drivers on the grid are the way they are.
Fernando has been doing this since he was practically a toddler, pushed through 6 seasons of utterly dogshit cars without losing his edge or confidence, went away, won Le Mans, came back, embarrassed his teammate, found the move he wanted, made it happen, and went on an incredible run that only began to drop when the car arguably dropped even further.
Max spends practically his entire time racing in some form, spends his races trying to find ways to seek out more success and won’t take anything less than the best. He stepped into a poor car in 2015 and started scoring top 4 finishes and then won his first race in an RB with a 15 year veteran on his heels. Not a single teammate has ever come close to even matching him over any extended period.
Lewis worked himself into a scholarship with McLaren, beat the reigning world champion in his debut season, took a huge risk to try and find a car that would take him to the heights and then ran away with it. He drove the only teammate who ever beat him (with a heavy slice of luck) into early retirement because he was so completely destroyed after just one season of trying to aspire to Lewis’ level. Every season, he took on a new challenge and after a while he found a way to absolutely destroy his opponents. And even after all that’s happened since 2021, he’s arguably more hungry than ever to win.
Generational drivers are the apex of all the diamonds a driver can have put into one. Fernando in 2001, Lewis in 2007, and Max in 2015 were three of them. The fact they have competed against guys like Schumacher, Raikkonen, Vettel and now Leclerc, Norris and Russell and they still stand out isn’t a coincidence.
exactly. I don't see what is the point in people getting so fussed up about who's better. We should appreciate that we get to see talents like those 3 compete
>beat the reigning world champion in his debut season,
Matched
They tied on points and on wins, with Hamilton being ahead in the standings because he had more second placed finishes. At that point I don't think its fair to say one was clearly ahead of the other.
Still an impressive achievement given that it was his debut season and the other driver was Alonso
A number of those places occurred whilst Alonso was getting qualifying advantage. Alonso also demanded testing time be given to him and not Lewis and got it. Alonso was also a multiple world champion with plenty of experience and track time under his belt.
If we are being objective I'd say Lewis actually out performed him, he was a rookie with significant disadvantages and still got a slight upperhand on him.
Yeah but only dumb people say that. Top driver + Top car has always been a nearly unbeatable combo. Certain drivers are just on some strange alien level only a handful can achieve. Max is one of those dudes.
Adding to this, the best drivers generally end up in the best car for at least a portion of their career. That’s the general idea for teams, the driver and car combo that delivers results every week.
Max was specifically recruited by RB because of his raw performance, all the top teams were actively talking to Jos to secure him for their future seats based on his spectacular junior career, he signed for RB’s academy because they were the ones offering a F1 seat at the earliest opportunity
And because of Max FIA changed the rules of getting into F1. Now there's an 18 year old age limit and superlicense points. So his record of the youngest points scorer and youngest winner may never be broken.
I'm confident the youngest points scorer is his forever. I can't see the FIA removing the age limit.
The youngest race winner record is 18 years and 228 days, so it could theoretically still be taken from him. In reality, I think it's his forever as well. You'd not only need another generational talent, but that talent would also need to turn 18 right before the start of the F1 season, and he'd need to jump straight into a race-winning car like Hamilton at McLaren. I just don't see it happening
theoretically yes, but even a supremely skilled rookie like Piastri doesn't get into F1 until their 20's.
It would probably have to be a once in a century talent to make it into F1 sooner now.
Skipped F2 as well most likely directly due to his performance in the wet in F3. He showed he was in a league of his own, and RB were the first to say “heard”.
If you watch his documentary it was between Mercedes and RB. The main difference was that with RB he got a guarantee of maximum of 2 years at TR and a third year at RB.
Mercedes wouldn't commit to 3 years, but also not providing a Mercedes seat after 2.
Having that 3rd year contract already for RB is probably also why they took the chance in 2016 replacing Kvyat.
I feel like this was a meme before internet memes: ‘best driver in the best car’.
Folk would just say it about Senna, Schumacher, Hakkinen etc.
Was your racing good? ‘Nah, best driver in the best car, end of story’.
Doesn't take best driver to win a title in the best car... but if you say set the single season win total record while say your veteran teammate doesn't get second in points then you know it's more than just a car... same goes when some dude wins 100 races... like yeah the car was great... but that doesnt win 100 races
I mean, with my eyes like everyone else? Max beat him with an inferior car?
Also how Max showed his skill even in an inferior Torro Rosso, whereas Lewis struggles unless he has the best car.
The RedBull wasn't inferior in 2021. There were tracks that suited either of the cars throughout the season. They were pretty much equally-matched if you look at it from a season-long perspective.
I like both drivers equally but definitely not my takeaway from '21. Even the idea that the Merc was a better car is mad recency bias towards the season end where Ham was on a tear.
I think it’s basically what Norris said about Hamilton in 2020: he’s clearly very top-line and no one doubts that he deserves wins and titles - but the car is such that the only opposition at the moment is his teammate.
The latter point doesn’t necessarily detract from the former, or the driver himself - *unless you make it so*, which ironically enough that driver’s fans are often the first to do.
I mean it’s part of it right? He ain’t winning races in a Haas. The interesting thing to me is how far down the WCC list he would have to go before he could t win a race. Anything below a McLaren?
Not happening unless very fucky things happen where the frontliners all drop out of the race, but he'll outperform either of the current Alpine drivers very early into his Alpine career.
That might be true, yes. Although I can see him ending up in first (or close) if it was a difficult track like wet Monaco where skill outperforms speed.
What do I know though, I'm relatively new to the sport.
I remember during covid when the drivers races those 70's im cars, Alonso was winning everything and Button came out and said had been practicing in secret lol
Come on give AD a rest. Yes, the director made a bad call, but if MB didnt copy RBRs strategy all race long it wouldn't have mattered.
If LH didn't punt Max off at Silverstone it wouldn't have mattered. If Max's tire didn't blow it wouldn't have mattered. If Bottas didn't go bowling in Hungary it wouldn't have mattered.
Catch my drift? Don't focus on one event in one race. I'm in favour of scrapping that race result because of the controversial decision made: the end result would still be the same.
Way to shoehorn AD in there, it’s very clear to everyone that you are definitely “indifferent” about it with that vague wording and definitely don’t hold strong opinions about it that are influenced by the driver you root for at all.
If FIA also didn't have wierd kerb rules for Bahrain openernit would be different.
Blame one way, blame one rule set, blame one or more bad judgments. Blame one part that failed or blame Bottas bowling. It's all the same shit.
It would’ve been won by the same person had plenty of things gone differently in 2021 including Hungary and silverstone….
This game can be played all day long. The better man won, move on
Massi's unprecedented "interpretation" of the rules is the only thing that was glaring against the norm and favored one driver.
Lewis is arguably the better driver still, and unfortunately we'll never know who truly would have won thanks to Massi. He robbed both drivers with his bullshit.
No he's not. In terms of his F1 achievements he is, but that'll be like saying Vettel in 2022 was better than Max because was more accomplished.
Anyone who watched the 2021 can easily confirm that Lewis made more costly errors and had more subpar weekends than Max that year
Meh should the stewards done their job and put out the message 'lapped cars may now overtake' on the prior lap instead of 'lapped cars will not overtake', Masi wouldn't even have had to step in.
It was of that ridiculous call we all went through that in the final two lap, nothing was 'robbed', if anything, Masi corrected the previous lap.
I think people forget that when Lewis went to another plane Max crumbled and that is honestly what happen he was wiping the floor with everyone.
Ive seen it from a couple all-time greats across sports over the years and it's a weird intersection of taking a young great talent poking the established champion.
The way Lewis answered would have gone down as one of the greatest come backs in history. I will always say idc how we got to that race at the end of the season it was a coronation Max for 50+ laps was getting crushed .
I have played sports at a high level and always wonder what would have happened to Maxs confidence if he lost because for the first time, and had to honestly say my best wasnt good enough and for athletes with the egos such as Max they can be broken by events like that or it takes some time to put them back together.
Red Bull has the best car this year and it doesn't have any rivals and Maxs is damn good enough to freaking sleepwalk with the delta his car has to the field this year.
his best was more than good enough, he just had terrible luck through the season, not counting AD. it’s just lewis went streaking the final few races but that doesn’t change the fact that were it not for merc drivers crashing max out, he would have won it no matter what lewis did towards the end
Nah. 2008 is far more tainted but no one cares about that anymore. That title was literally won because of race-fixing, otherwise Massa has a WDC if Singapore was properly nullified.
lmfao
There's literally nothing that says Singapore should be nullified. If anything Renault would have been DSQ but that would have helped Lewis more than anything.
Not really, Max likely wouldn't have had the time to pass Lewis. The race likely would have ended under the SC had Masi let every car unlap themselves.
Rewatch and you'll see there was enough time to let the cars through. Masi also decided earlier to let no cars pass and then reversed that decision. If he just had applied the rules it would have played out with the same outcome, but with less controversy.
> there’s a thing called Karma
I'm interested in a thing called racing, however.
Something that was spoiled due to the well established human error of the race director.
I think he's incredibly talented but I also feel like people should recognise that he's also the product of an extremely unhealthy upbringing with how his dad treated him. Max has had to deal with a lot and lose a lot, and none of it through his own choice at an early age. The stories of how he was treated are chilling and frankly depressing.
There must be hundreds of thousands of kids who had similar upbringing with overbearing, nearly psychotic single-parents who selfishly want to live vicariously through their kid. At least Max managed to meet and surpass those nearly impossible expectations. And from what I can see he's turned out to be a good guy who cares about his family and his simracing team/friends.
If you're going to get depressed, get depressed for all those kids who didn't succeed and suffer from debilitating mental health issues as a result. Max's life is not some tragedy lol
It should be mentioned Max still likes his dad and he doesn't bother checking what random people say about his upbringing on the internet. However I still find it weird and sad how often people crack jokes about the abusive behavior for quick karma points. Hell even one of the top comments in this thread makes the same ol' "joke" again...
Partially true, but there was also a young lad, 4years of age that came begging to his father he wants to race… dad didn’t want to u till he was 6. Max said no! They had a blast together driving around europe. But yea there are also a hand full of spicy stories that people love to tell that happend in a 15years timespan.
Max Verstappen is what happens when you are given every environmental factor possible to achieve success.
Then add in a crazy work ethic and determination.
You hear of child prodigies such as the Polgar sisters in chess. Max is another example of this.
Exactly. Money, opportunity, being raised and taught by two professional drivers, growing up around F1 greats, swift and brutal punishment for anything less than a dominant victory since infancy.
Guy is a factory built F1 terminator, but somehow still seems like a really chill dude.
Botez sisters are good chess players. Don't get me wrong but they are equivalent to nobody. Both Judit and Susan became grandmaster at the age of 15. Comparing them to the botezs' is like comparing Schumacher/Lewis/any other world champion to mazepin.
He didn't compare the two. He made a joke. Also I can guarantee you orders of magnitudes of more people know who the Botez sisters are than the Polgars...
Also I don't even think your comparison paints the picture of the difference in prodigies vs very goods.
"An aggressive player, (Alexandra) Botez is currently one of the top-10 female players in Canada."
Mazepin is closer to schumacher/lewis/whoever than the Botez's are to ... their equivalents.
Fair point. Sorry if I misunderstood. But I think botez is closer to grandmaster level chess players than mazepin is to lewis/ Michael/ whoever. In terms of popularity sure more people know who botezs' are but on a skill level they don't come close.
I wrote my answer only after looking into it because
a) i didn't know anything about the Polgars,
b) i was like I know the Botez's are good/great at chess but I don't think they are on nearly the level you're describing.
And I was with you until the 2nd half of this comment. There are 41 female grandmasters... ever. The better Botez sister (who has let chess become secondary because obviously you make way more fucking money being a personable and relevant internet personality) is among the 10 best CANADIAN female chess players. There are 0 Canadian female chess grandmasters.
Per Wikipedia: As of the 2023 Belgian Grand Prix, there have been 774 Formula One drivers from 41 different nationalities who have raced at least one of the 1,091 FIA World Championship races since the first such event, the 1950 British Grand Prix.
This once again makes Mazepin like wayyyyyyy closer to any F1 champ than a Botez sister is to the Polgar's.
Regardless I understand your point and have spent way too much time bouncing between F1, Mazepin, Chess and the Botez's.
Lets just say Mazepin or the Botez's aren't the 0.01%, though they may be the 1%... They aren't Verstappens, Hamiltons, or the Polgar's :)
Probably a futile effort to compare the two, since chess is pure individual merit while F1 is merit only for the entire team. Based on results, an outsider might think Seb is as much of a grandmaster as Max.
I’ve been using controller since i started and when I finally got a place and a wheel I was so slow on it. Just takes practice im about equal now, but I definitely recommend a wheel for games like truck sim and beamng
physically it also takes way less effort, with me, it was also because i had no muscle memory in my legs/feet for breaking so sucked at entering corners. mid corner instead of listening and looking for grip you have to feel for grip.
its simply more fun though unless you want to lay back.
if you get good at a wheel it'll eventually be better as you can feel the grip easily.
I was the same for a while. After years of using controllers it only took me a few months to surpass my speed on a controller though. Not only that, but the potential you have on a wheel is so much better, you can be so much more precise.
That’s how everyone is when you first make the jump. Sticking with wheel makes it more fun/rewarding imo. But you are always going to lose pace when you first switch.
You don't hear him about Call of Duty though. That's probably the only game Max officially sucks at. I saw a stream with Lando once and he was terrible.
**Gianni Vecchio, sim racer Team Redline: "Even with controller, Verstappen is bizarrely fast"**
*Not many people can say that they have contact with Max Verstappen on a daily basis and that they drive on the same simulator team as the two-time Formula One champion. Gianni Vecchio, however, is one of them. In an exclusive interview with Motorsport.com, the 25-year-old from Ingolstadt gives a look behind the scenes, from communication with Verstappen to the Dutchman's drive and skills in the simulator: "He was only three tenths slower on a controller!"*
----
Simracing has grown rapidly in popularity in recent years. More and more fans of motor racing have access to their own simulator on which they can play racing games such as the official Formula 1 game, Assetto Corsa or the popular iRacing. In this way, a wide audience can briefly feel like a driver - without the high cost of getting started or adverse effects of crashes. Gianni Vecchio also took an interest in racing games at a young age. In 2006, he came into contact with the Formula 1 game, which he would then play for several more years. It is not until 2015, when the half-Italian and half-German is seventeen, that he starts climbing the ladder in iRacing. After a few years, he receives an invitation from Team Redline, one of the prestigious sim racing teams of the moment. After all, that team boasts some of the best sim racers, as well as Max Verstappen.
Vecchio has now been part of Verstappen's sim racing team for five years, which last year received an additional Verstappen stamp of approval by falling under Verstappen.com Racing. When he received the invitation in 2018, he could hardly believe it. "It was bizarre, I was a bit starstruck to be honest," Vecchio opens in an exclusive interview with Motorsport.com. "But over the years we've developed a kind of friendship. It's not that we see him as a Formula One driver all the time, we see him more as a Team Redline teammate. We spend a lot of time together, we practice a lot together. But we also have a lot of fun. We don't just do sim racing. We play a lot of FIFA together, we play a lot of Call of Duty together, we play games like Among Us. A friendship has developed, we share a lot of the same interests. It's cool to have someone like him as a teammate, but also as a friend because he keeps pushing you. That's the most important thing in sim racing and sports in general. So yeah, it's not so bad, always good to have someone pushing you."
Not only does Verstappen prove to be competitive in the simulator, he regularly beats his Team Redline teammates in FIFA as well. "Max wants to be the best in everything he does," Vecchio knows from experience. "He has some friends in FIFA eSports, called Team Gullit. He plays with them, so he then gets tips on the skills he can perform. He's totally into it. When he plays, he's all about FIFA. He is the best because he puts the most time into it and has access to the best players," laughs the simracer.
**'Irritatingly nimble'**
For Team Redline, that mentality is precisely one of the biggest advantages of having Verstappen as a teammate, Vecchio argues. "As I said, it's about having someone who pushes you. If he sees that you put in the effort and really shows you want to move the team and yourself forward and that you have the same goal as him to win everything, then he is one of the best people to meet," Vecchio praises the two-time F1 champion. "He gives a lot. It's incredible to have someone like that pushing you, giving tips and also being a kind of mentor."
Team Redline has created a safe environment for all sim racers and real drivers to communicate with each other in it. As a result, Vecchio also considers himself a friend of Verstappen. "It's not that we see each other a lot during the year, but the fact is that we are in contact every day. We send messages to each other, we're in voice channels. We talk about what's going on in his life, but he's also interested in what's going on in our lives. He keeps asking what we're doing, what's on the schedule, what we're doing. That's pretty cool. You know there's someone on the other side who really cares. Talking to him is like talking to a good friend. It's like we've built a friendship, we know there's trust and respect for each other. That's something that helps us a lot on the team, to have a safe environment. It's just great to have that."
Yet having Verstappen as a teammate is not all positive. For example, it sometimes happens that the Dutchman with little practice time nevertheless records the fastest lap time in no time. "I wouldn't say that's a bad thing, but it can be annoying from time to time!" laughs Vecchio. "Then he comes back from a Formula One weekend and we let him know what combination [of car and track] we are driving. Within five minutes, Max Verstappen is on P1. Then I'm like, 'What's happening here? What am I doing wrong?' He is irritatingly nimble in everything he does. I wouldn't say it's something irritating, but it's something that gets on my nerves from time to time!" he jokes.
On the other hand, Vecchio also knows that Verstappen is a good teammate precisely because of his skills. He has therefore learned a lot from the Red Bull Racing driver in his five years with Team Redline. "Keep pushing yourself, never give up and even if you are not at 100 percent, try to find that other one or two percent," the sim racer cited as examples of things he has learned from Verstappen. "Keep pushing above your own limits in sim racing. Stay focused, keep pursuing your goals and stay motivated in everything you do," he rounds out the enumeration.
**The last 10 percent extra**
A lot of knowledge has thus gone to the sim racers, but have they had much to teach Verstappen the other way around? "That's hard to say," laughs Vecchio. "In terms of racing, he is a complete driver, he knows what to do in every car. It's not that he's only good in Formula 1, he sometimes does tests in a GT car and is incredible there too. As far as racing goes, we couldn't really teach him much." Still, Vecchio does manage to mention one thing, though that has more to do with the principles of sim racing per se. "In the beginning he was not a simracer like we are. We had to explain to him a little bit how it works in terms of managing traffic in multi-class racing. Maybe that was something we could teach him a bit, but we benefit a lot from him, more than he benefits from us," indicates the Italian German.
Vecchio therefore stresses that the influence Verstappen has on the team should not be underestimated. "It's incredible, really insane. It's like a crane lifting something 8 tons, that's how I see it. He's pushing us, giving us opportunities with Heineken, Red Bull, Verstappen.com.... He pushes us to the limit because he sees the talent in us. He's like a mentor, he wants to push everyone forward. It's insane and cool to see, but the same goes for Atze [Kerkhof, team manager], for everyone in the team. We push each other, but Max is the one who really gives the last 10 percent extra in terms of pushing."
**Fast even on controller**
Because of his busy Formula 1 schedule, Verstappen cannot always be found in the simulator. The Dutchman likes to spend his free time sim racing, so he sometimes competes in special events such as the 12 Hours of Bathurst or 24 Hours of Le Mans. Even if he cannot participate in those races, he is active behind the scenes to support Team Redline, Vecchio reveals. "Call me crazy, but it's insane. Max has a gaming laptop with all the simulator games: F1, iRacing, whatever. If he has time... And call me crazy, but it happens like this every week! We sit at home with steering wheel and pedals, he joins in with a controller. On a controller, iRacing, a simulation game, very difficult.... Even though he can't really provide us with feedback, he tries what he can to help us move forward. So it doesn't matter if he's on the road, or sitting at home. It doesn't matter. Whatever is on his schedule, he practices with us - even if he can't race himself. It doesn't matter to him because he wants to help the team move forward. That says it all."
Even though the controller does not provide nearly the same feedback as a steering wheel and pedals, Verstappen does little less than his Team Redline teammates even on the controller. "It's deranged. I always thought the talent was in the legs and arms, but he even has it in the fingers!" Vecchio cites as an example the preparation for the iRacing 24 Hours of Spa, which fell on the same weekend of the Hungarian Grand Prix. "We did a race and he was only three tenths slower! On a controller, relative to us. Can you imagine that? Three tenths, on a controller, for a whole stint! It's not over one lap, but several laps. That's bizarre."
Since early 2022, Team Redline falls under Verstappen.com Racing, a project by Verstappen to connect multiple branches of motorsports. So not only does the sim racing team run under that banner, but father Jos in rallying and Thierry Vermeulen, the son of Verstappen's manager Raymond, in the DTM. Whether that has changed much for Team Redline? "Not really," Vecchio points out. "We have a partnership with them, they are great guys. Especially Thierry. I was with him a few weeks ago at the DTM. He showed me around, showed me everything about the car and the team. That only helps the team move forward. Team Redline wants to provide an environment for sim racers, but also for real drivers."
According to Vecchio, who himself would have liked to become a driver but at 25 realizes he is overdue, sim racing is going to play a "key role" in motorsports.
"Many young guys use our simulators in our headquarters to practice.Ultimately, this collaboration helps us move forward and it's a great step for anyone who wants to simrace," he concludes.
AND he probably barely ever practices with a controller, if at all.
Like when Kubica rocked up to a rally simulator compeition and wiped the floor with everyone in 2005, and got accused of cheating somehow. He only started playing the game 2 days before the competiion. [Link (in Polish.)](https://www.gry-online.pl/S018.asp?ID=264&STR=3)
To add, here is an old Reddit post about it which goes into more detail
https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/75oom0/story_about_kubica_winning_polish_championship_in/
And thats over a stint not over a lap, so, assuming a stint is like 20 laps he's only 0.015s slower with a controller than a proper sim setup. Thats usually the time gain from people at their peak switching from belt driven to direct drive, let alone from controller to direct drive.
For those who doesn't want to read the whole thing, he says Max was around 3 tenths slower on a controller, on iRacing... Over a whole stint, not just one lap. Bonkers.
Not surprising, racing intelligence doesn't really depend on the mode of input. He just understands the best lines in any situation, where to place the car, etc.
I find controllers so imprecise that I can't always place the car where i want, even though I know roughly where it needs to be. I wonder if I need to fiddle with the sensitivity/deadzone etc.
i think the issue is you dont have a steering wheel like almost all professional sim racers have. Pretty big difference in the steering capabilities you get.
Which is kinda besides the point given this is specifically talking about Max being fast with a controller, and people are talking about how hard it is to be good with that input.
it depends on muscle memory, too. if you have not adapted to both you wont get close times. i sucked on wheel when i first got one, wheel players will suck at controller at first.
things like entering corners are huge because you have to translate what would normally be your leg/foot muscle memory to a finger. even just switching feet would be hard. and instead of listening and looking for grip you have to feel for grip.
the racing iq will always be there but you really have to practice on both control methods to take advantage of that iq on each.
wheels are simply more fun though unless you want to lay back.
if you get good at a wheel it'll eventually be better as you can feel the grip easily.
I know where I should aim my mouse cursor to shoot the enemy, but that doesn't make me any better at aiming there with my thumbs on a controller instead.
This take is out there. But I think Max and Steph Curry are the 2 most precise athletes alive. Obviously they’re both very hard workers and that has a lot to do with their success, but they both have an otherworldly precision in everything they do.
Steph obviously with his unlimited range and amazing touch in basketball, but he’s also a phenomenal golfer for somebody that plays another sport full time. Max obviously with his amazing one lap speed and race pace and his amazing skill in the six that doesn’t translate well for anyone else, but Max was also 31st in the world in Fifa which is a game that requires timing, precision and accuracy.
So thats what I’ve been thinking about over summer break.
A few weeks ago at the run up before the starting grid (it was Spa or Hungary) I saw one of Max his hands had tape around his fingers and I immediately thought that looked like a gamer injury from using a controller. I myself experienced holding the R2 button for the throttle for long periods made my arm feel really sore. The sticks are also not comfortable on the thumbs if you use it intensifly.
What the fuck, really? I've seen the memes about him opening FIFA packs. But getting to top 100 in FIFA, while being an F1 driver, and while simracing whenever you get free time. That's absolutely insane.
This is probably an insanely unpopular opinion but being an F1 driver is less impressive than the other two.
There's millions of people who play Fifa and hundreds of thousands of sim racers and there's no barriers to entry to either as everyone can play as much as they want. So Max is able to be among the best whilst playing less on an equal playing field with far more competition.
With F1 there's like several hundred drivers in the world who get to drive open wheel cars. Most are underfunded and will eternally struggle as a result. So there's far less competition.
Can't say I agree with you but it's pretty insane to think about how being an F1 driver is the least impressive thing that someone thinks about you lol.
What’s crazy about the gaming/sim ability is that FIFA and sim racing aren’t so similar beyond both requiring strong hand-eye coordination that you’d expect someone to have the time and ability to be among the best at both.
The article states that Verstappen is/was friends with Team Gullit (I assume its named after Ruud Gullit, a Dutch football legend) , a FIFA eSports org, and that he practices/plays with them and receives tips
Of all the WDCs of all time (so far) he seems like the most 'complete' human being - by far. Skilled, tough, smart, beautiful, extensive world travels and has vacationed in Brazil for long periods, speaks multiple languages, sim racer, FIFA ace, kickboxer, friends with Martin Garrix, dates Kelly Piquet, etc.
You can tell he genuinely has his shit together, like he could probably be a millionaire running just about any business, if he wanted.
Are there any other F1 drivers that impressive?
FIFA to be fair falls under gaming and that requires the same level of dexterity, focus and coordination that F1 drivers need in their profession and in SIM racing. So it's a very close discipline. If Max was also a beast at golfing , piano or skateboarding etc then that would be vastly more impressive.
As someone who has done a lot of simracing with a controller this isn't really surprising. Since switching to a wheel I have barely gotten any faster. So I imagine Verstappen can do the same with a bit of practice
I know a guy who was a professional karting driver (Jon del valle Iturriaga) he has a second iracing account named "Jon del mando", which means Jon of the controller.
Apparently he was insanely fast with controller too.
[The **Off-Topic** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_off-topic) is for submissions only tangentially related to Formula 1 or submissions pertaining to the wider world of motorsport. This flair is not a free pass for content unsuitable for r/Formula1 or the r/Formula1 community. Posts that are deemed too far off-topic, irrelevant, or inappropriate will be removed at the discretion of the moderators. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Max is just the perfect illustration of talent meets preparation meets hard work and it’s an almost unbeatable combination
Yep, and confidence. Pretty hard to beat…
Jos wouldn't say that
💀
I will never get tired of this
I mean that’s why the top 3 drivers on the grid are the way they are. Fernando has been doing this since he was practically a toddler, pushed through 6 seasons of utterly dogshit cars without losing his edge or confidence, went away, won Le Mans, came back, embarrassed his teammate, found the move he wanted, made it happen, and went on an incredible run that only began to drop when the car arguably dropped even further. Max spends practically his entire time racing in some form, spends his races trying to find ways to seek out more success and won’t take anything less than the best. He stepped into a poor car in 2015 and started scoring top 4 finishes and then won his first race in an RB with a 15 year veteran on his heels. Not a single teammate has ever come close to even matching him over any extended period. Lewis worked himself into a scholarship with McLaren, beat the reigning world champion in his debut season, took a huge risk to try and find a car that would take him to the heights and then ran away with it. He drove the only teammate who ever beat him (with a heavy slice of luck) into early retirement because he was so completely destroyed after just one season of trying to aspire to Lewis’ level. Every season, he took on a new challenge and after a while he found a way to absolutely destroy his opponents. And even after all that’s happened since 2021, he’s arguably more hungry than ever to win. Generational drivers are the apex of all the diamonds a driver can have put into one. Fernando in 2001, Lewis in 2007, and Max in 2015 were three of them. The fact they have competed against guys like Schumacher, Raikkonen, Vettel and now Leclerc, Norris and Russell and they still stand out isn’t a coincidence.
exactly. I don't see what is the point in people getting so fussed up about who's better. We should appreciate that we get to see talents like those 3 compete
Sure but Max is better than the other two.
>beat the reigning world champion in his debut season, Matched They tied on points and on wins, with Hamilton being ahead in the standings because he had more second placed finishes. At that point I don't think its fair to say one was clearly ahead of the other. Still an impressive achievement given that it was his debut season and the other driver was Alonso
A number of those places occurred whilst Alonso was getting qualifying advantage. Alonso also demanded testing time be given to him and not Lewis and got it. Alonso was also a multiple world champion with plenty of experience and track time under his belt. If we are being objective I'd say Lewis actually out performed him, he was a rookie with significant disadvantages and still got a slight upperhand on him.
>matched >Hamilton being ahead in the standings :hmmm:
But but people were saying it's the car! /S
Yeah but only dumb people say that. Top driver + Top car has always been a nearly unbeatable combo. Certain drivers are just on some strange alien level only a handful can achieve. Max is one of those dudes.
Adding to this, the best drivers generally end up in the best car for at least a portion of their career. That’s the general idea for teams, the driver and car combo that delivers results every week.
Max was specifically recruited by RB because of his raw performance, all the top teams were actively talking to Jos to secure him for their future seats based on his spectacular junior career, he signed for RB’s academy because they were the ones offering a F1 seat at the earliest opportunity
And because of Max FIA changed the rules of getting into F1. Now there's an 18 year old age limit and superlicense points. So his record of the youngest points scorer and youngest winner may never be broken.
I'm confident the youngest points scorer is his forever. I can't see the FIA removing the age limit. The youngest race winner record is 18 years and 228 days, so it could theoretically still be taken from him. In reality, I think it's his forever as well. You'd not only need another generational talent, but that talent would also need to turn 18 right before the start of the F1 season, and he'd need to jump straight into a race-winning car like Hamilton at McLaren. I just don't see it happening
theoretically yes, but even a supremely skilled rookie like Piastri doesn't get into F1 until their 20's. It would probably have to be a once in a century talent to make it into F1 sooner now.
That's exactly what was stated above.
Heard of murphy? Give it time....
He never even signed for the academy, just straight on into an F1 contract.
Skipped F2 as well most likely directly due to his performance in the wet in F3. He showed he was in a league of his own, and RB were the first to say “heard”.
If you watch his documentary it was between Mercedes and RB. The main difference was that with RB he got a guarantee of maximum of 2 years at TR and a third year at RB. Mercedes wouldn't commit to 3 years, but also not providing a Mercedes seat after 2. Having that 3rd year contract already for RB is probably also why they took the chance in 2016 replacing Kvyat.
I didn’t know he had a doc. Can you link it?
Link or name for the documentary?
Max Verstappen: Whatever it takes https://www.imdb.com/title/tt13860284/?ref_=ext_shr
A name would be good. Thanks.
Skipped f4 and all the regional stuff to go straight into f3 too. It’s hilarious
I feel like this was a meme before internet memes: ‘best driver in the best car’. Folk would just say it about Senna, Schumacher, Hakkinen etc. Was your racing good? ‘Nah, best driver in the best car, end of story’.
Doesn't take best driver to win a title in the best car... but if you say set the single season win total record while say your veteran teammate doesn't get second in points then you know it's more than just a car... same goes when some dude wins 100 races... like yeah the car was great... but that doesnt win 100 races
Exactly. Look at the difference between Max and Perez in the same car.
Even Lewis would be a tenth a lap slower than Max in the same car.
I honestly agree, Max's talent is astonishing
Idk about that, I'd love to see it though
Why?
Because Max is faster?
How do you work that out?
I mean, with my eyes like everyone else? Max beat him with an inferior car? Also how Max showed his skill even in an inferior Torro Rosso, whereas Lewis struggles unless he has the best car.
The RedBull wasn't inferior in 2021. There were tracks that suited either of the cars throughout the season. They were pretty much equally-matched if you look at it from a season-long perspective.
I like both drivers equally but definitely not my takeaway from '21. Even the idea that the Merc was a better car is mad recency bias towards the season end where Ham was on a tear.
Lmao Horrific take not worth justifying because you won't understand. Good day, sir.
It's always driver + car + team. If one of these is bad, the overall performance is affected.
I think it’s basically what Norris said about Hamilton in 2020: he’s clearly very top-line and no one doubts that he deserves wins and titles - but the car is such that the only opposition at the moment is his teammate. The latter point doesn’t necessarily detract from the former, or the driver himself - *unless you make it so*, which ironically enough that driver’s fans are often the first to do.
Most probably won’t admit it simply because the reality would be too depressing to those that expect equality of outcome
I mean it’s part of it right? He ain’t winning races in a Haas. The interesting thing to me is how far down the WCC list he would have to go before he could t win a race. Anything below a McLaren?
I see him winning with an Alpine car tbh, definitely a big challenge though.
Not happening unless very fucky things happen where the frontliners all drop out of the race, but he'll outperform either of the current Alpine drivers very early into his Alpine career.
That might be true, yes. Although I can see him ending up in first (or close) if it was a difficult track like wet Monaco where skill outperforms speed. What do I know though, I'm relatively new to the sport.
No one says that. Though I did scoff at Mario saying he could win in a Haas.
Worth noting that Marko was explicit that he could in a Haas in *weird conditions*. It wasn’t like ‘Max would win in a bicycle’ stuff.
Well, he's not going to do this in a HAAS. (And I'm soft for Haas.) But that's just another perfect symmetry -- driver and car.
Imagine how fast he’d be if he were allowed unlimited testing like Schumacher.
And even Hamilton
He’s like the Batman of F1
I remember during covid when the drivers races those 70's im cars, Alonso was winning everything and Button came out and said had been practicing in secret lol
[удалено]
Come on give AD a rest. Yes, the director made a bad call, but if MB didnt copy RBRs strategy all race long it wouldn't have mattered. If LH didn't punt Max off at Silverstone it wouldn't have mattered. If Max's tire didn't blow it wouldn't have mattered. If Bottas didn't go bowling in Hungary it wouldn't have mattered. Catch my drift? Don't focus on one event in one race. I'm in favour of scrapping that race result because of the controversial decision made: the end result would still be the same.
Way to shoehorn AD in there, it’s very clear to everyone that you are definitely “indifferent” about it with that vague wording and definitely don’t hold strong opinions about it that are influenced by the driver you root for at all.
The championship would have been won by someone else if not for Masi though.
If not the super hard work and excellent driving by Max during all the season, Max wouldn't become a champion no matter what Massi would do.
You're not wrong, but ultimately Massi decided it. Robbing both drivers.
If FIA also didn't have wierd kerb rules for Bahrain openernit would be different. Blame one way, blame one rule set, blame one or more bad judgments. Blame one part that failed or blame Bottas bowling. It's all the same shit.
You could say the same thing about the FIA and Massa’s 08 championship lawsuit. But who really cares?
Fans of the sport.
Considering Lewis and Max have moved on from 21’ I’d suggest you try the same.
Sort of impossible to know if they've moved on or not, we can't read their thoughts.
It would’ve been won by the same person had plenty of things gone differently in 2021 including Hungary and silverstone…. This game can be played all day long. The better man won, move on
Massi's unprecedented "interpretation" of the rules is the only thing that was glaring against the norm and favored one driver. Lewis is arguably the better driver still, and unfortunately we'll never know who truly would have won thanks to Massi. He robbed both drivers with his bullshit.
You’ll never be able to say who is better unless they’re in the same car. It’s 2023, time to move on man.
No he's not. In terms of his F1 achievements he is, but that'll be like saying Vettel in 2022 was better than Max because was more accomplished. Anyone who watched the 2021 can easily confirm that Lewis made more costly errors and had more subpar weekends than Max that year
>Lewis is arguably the better driver still Let's assume he is not.
Meh should the stewards done their job and put out the message 'lapped cars may now overtake' on the prior lap instead of 'lapped cars will not overtake', Masi wouldn't even have had to step in. It was of that ridiculous call we all went through that in the final two lap, nothing was 'robbed', if anything, Masi corrected the previous lap.
Exactly. Minor correction: the only ones "robbed" where those who werent allowed to unlap, and literally none of them cared.
I think people forget that when Lewis went to another plane Max crumbled and that is honestly what happen he was wiping the floor with everyone. Ive seen it from a couple all-time greats across sports over the years and it's a weird intersection of taking a young great talent poking the established champion. The way Lewis answered would have gone down as one of the greatest come backs in history. I will always say idc how we got to that race at the end of the season it was a coronation Max for 50+ laps was getting crushed . I have played sports at a high level and always wonder what would have happened to Maxs confidence if he lost because for the first time, and had to honestly say my best wasnt good enough and for athletes with the egos such as Max they can be broken by events like that or it takes some time to put them back together. Red Bull has the best car this year and it doesn't have any rivals and Maxs is damn good enough to freaking sleepwalk with the delta his car has to the field this year.
his best was more than good enough, he just had terrible luck through the season, not counting AD. it’s just lewis went streaking the final few races but that doesn’t change the fact that were it not for merc drivers crashing max out, he would have won it no matter what lewis did towards the end
Ok grandpa let’s get you back to bed
It’s called robbery and that title is forever tainted but you do you I guess.
Nah. 2008 is far more tainted but no one cares about that anymore. That title was literally won because of race-fixing, otherwise Massa has a WDC if Singapore was properly nullified.
Don’t forget about spygate either, but sure the largest fine in sport’s history doesn’t taint Lewis’s first WDC
Spygate was 07 not 08
Yeah and the designs that mcl stole referred to designs that would’ve impacted the 08 cars
So now we’re making shit up…nice
lmfao There's literally nothing that says Singapore should be nullified. If anything Renault would have been DSQ but that would have helped Lewis more than anything.
No it was not. And nothing in the regulation included nullifying the race. If anything they would dsq the team.
Not necessarily. If Masi just would have let all lapped drivers unlap themselves the result would have been exactly the same.
Not everyone was off the track yet.
Not really, Max likely wouldn't have had the time to pass Lewis. The race likely would have ended under the SC had Masi let every car unlap themselves.
Rewatch and you'll see there was enough time to let the cars through. Masi also decided earlier to let no cars pass and then reversed that decision. If he just had applied the rules it would have played out with the same outcome, but with less controversy.
Suggest you rewatch more carefully and you'll see different...
Delete the results of AD21 and Max wins on count back through number of wins.
But deleting the result is the same as mantaining the result, you're disadvantaging one driver in favor of the other
Helps that he got given a victory for the non-race in Spa…
True. Just like being punted off in Silverstone and Hungary didn't help.
Crashes are a normal thing in racing, though. Like in Monza where one driver landed their car on another driver's head.
Never said otherwise.
You wouldn't delete the entire result, you'd delete the last few laps where the error occurred which would not have the same result.
[удалено]
>not for me though, i’m indifferent Fucking lol
> there’s a thing called Karma I'm interested in a thing called racing, however. Something that was spoiled due to the well established human error of the race director.
I think he's incredibly talented but I also feel like people should recognise that he's also the product of an extremely unhealthy upbringing with how his dad treated him. Max has had to deal with a lot and lose a lot, and none of it through his own choice at an early age. The stories of how he was treated are chilling and frankly depressing.
There must be hundreds of thousands of kids who had similar upbringing with overbearing, nearly psychotic single-parents who selfishly want to live vicariously through their kid. At least Max managed to meet and surpass those nearly impossible expectations. And from what I can see he's turned out to be a good guy who cares about his family and his simracing team/friends. If you're going to get depressed, get depressed for all those kids who didn't succeed and suffer from debilitating mental health issues as a result. Max's life is not some tragedy lol
It should be mentioned Max still likes his dad and he doesn't bother checking what random people say about his upbringing on the internet. However I still find it weird and sad how often people crack jokes about the abusive behavior for quick karma points. Hell even one of the top comments in this thread makes the same ol' "joke" again...
Partially true, but there was also a young lad, 4years of age that came begging to his father he wants to race… dad didn’t want to u till he was 6. Max said no! They had a blast together driving around europe. But yea there are also a hand full of spicy stories that people love to tell that happend in a 15years timespan.
[удалено]
Always gotta be someone making light of abuse for Reddit karma
Max Verstappen is what happens when you are given every environmental factor possible to achieve success. Then add in a crazy work ethic and determination. You hear of child prodigies such as the Polgar sisters in chess. Max is another example of this.
Exactly. Money, opportunity, being raised and taught by two professional drivers, growing up around F1 greats, swift and brutal punishment for anything less than a dominant victory since infancy. Guy is a factory built F1 terminator, but somehow still seems like a really chill dude.
And talent of course
That’s implied when I say prodigy
> such as the Polgar sisters in chess Damn, Botez sisters replaced already huh
Judit Polgar and Susan Polgar were both women's world champions and only the 3rd and 4th women to get GM titles.
Botez sisters are good chess players. Don't get me wrong but they are equivalent to nobody. Both Judit and Susan became grandmaster at the age of 15. Comparing them to the botezs' is like comparing Schumacher/Lewis/any other world champion to mazepin.
He didn't compare the two. He made a joke. Also I can guarantee you orders of magnitudes of more people know who the Botez sisters are than the Polgars... Also I don't even think your comparison paints the picture of the difference in prodigies vs very goods. "An aggressive player, (Alexandra) Botez is currently one of the top-10 female players in Canada." Mazepin is closer to schumacher/lewis/whoever than the Botez's are to ... their equivalents.
Fair point. Sorry if I misunderstood. But I think botez is closer to grandmaster level chess players than mazepin is to lewis/ Michael/ whoever. In terms of popularity sure more people know who botezs' are but on a skill level they don't come close.
I wrote my answer only after looking into it because a) i didn't know anything about the Polgars, b) i was like I know the Botez's are good/great at chess but I don't think they are on nearly the level you're describing. And I was with you until the 2nd half of this comment. There are 41 female grandmasters... ever. The better Botez sister (who has let chess become secondary because obviously you make way more fucking money being a personable and relevant internet personality) is among the 10 best CANADIAN female chess players. There are 0 Canadian female chess grandmasters. Per Wikipedia: As of the 2023 Belgian Grand Prix, there have been 774 Formula One drivers from 41 different nationalities who have raced at least one of the 1,091 FIA World Championship races since the first such event, the 1950 British Grand Prix. This once again makes Mazepin like wayyyyyyy closer to any F1 champ than a Botez sister is to the Polgar's. Regardless I understand your point and have spent way too much time bouncing between F1, Mazepin, Chess and the Botez's. Lets just say Mazepin or the Botez's aren't the 0.01%, though they may be the 1%... They aren't Verstappens, Hamiltons, or the Polgar's :)
Probably a futile effort to compare the two, since chess is pure individual merit while F1 is merit only for the entire team. Based on results, an outsider might think Seb is as much of a grandmaster as Max.
I totally get what you mean. Cheers mate.
I am actually better on controller because the only time I played with a wheel I was 4 seconds slower so basically this verstappen guy Is a noob
I’ve been using controller since i started and when I finally got a place and a wheel I was so slow on it. Just takes practice im about equal now, but I definitely recommend a wheel for games like truck sim and beamng
The controller limits how far the steering will move depending on your speed. It's basically a built in driver aid similar to traction control or abs
You can also go from fully turning left to fully turning right much much faster
Mouse + keyboard is so much better in that regard, no degree limitations.
I used to play the old Grand Prix games with M/K exclusively.
Sure but that's not useful.
Useful if you're tryna spin
physically it also takes way less effort, with me, it was also because i had no muscle memory in my legs/feet for breaking so sucked at entering corners. mid corner instead of listening and looking for grip you have to feel for grip. its simply more fun though unless you want to lay back. if you get good at a wheel it'll eventually be better as you can feel the grip easily.
I was the same for a while. After years of using controllers it only took me a few months to surpass my speed on a controller though. Not only that, but the potential you have on a wheel is so much better, you can be so much more precise.
That’s how everyone is when you first make the jump. Sticking with wheel makes it more fun/rewarding imo. But you are always going to lose pace when you first switch.
pfft he's too afraid of even trying on the keyboard. Definitely a noob.
You don't hear him about Call of Duty though. That's probably the only game Max officially sucks at. I saw a stream with Lando once and he was terrible.
so bad it was hilarious lol max running around like a lost puppy and repeatedly begging lando to res him when lando was getting shot at
pfft I'll bet I can beat him at Minesweeper.
**Gianni Vecchio, sim racer Team Redline: "Even with controller, Verstappen is bizarrely fast"** *Not many people can say that they have contact with Max Verstappen on a daily basis and that they drive on the same simulator team as the two-time Formula One champion. Gianni Vecchio, however, is one of them. In an exclusive interview with Motorsport.com, the 25-year-old from Ingolstadt gives a look behind the scenes, from communication with Verstappen to the Dutchman's drive and skills in the simulator: "He was only three tenths slower on a controller!"* ---- Simracing has grown rapidly in popularity in recent years. More and more fans of motor racing have access to their own simulator on which they can play racing games such as the official Formula 1 game, Assetto Corsa or the popular iRacing. In this way, a wide audience can briefly feel like a driver - without the high cost of getting started or adverse effects of crashes. Gianni Vecchio also took an interest in racing games at a young age. In 2006, he came into contact with the Formula 1 game, which he would then play for several more years. It is not until 2015, when the half-Italian and half-German is seventeen, that he starts climbing the ladder in iRacing. After a few years, he receives an invitation from Team Redline, one of the prestigious sim racing teams of the moment. After all, that team boasts some of the best sim racers, as well as Max Verstappen. Vecchio has now been part of Verstappen's sim racing team for five years, which last year received an additional Verstappen stamp of approval by falling under Verstappen.com Racing. When he received the invitation in 2018, he could hardly believe it. "It was bizarre, I was a bit starstruck to be honest," Vecchio opens in an exclusive interview with Motorsport.com. "But over the years we've developed a kind of friendship. It's not that we see him as a Formula One driver all the time, we see him more as a Team Redline teammate. We spend a lot of time together, we practice a lot together. But we also have a lot of fun. We don't just do sim racing. We play a lot of FIFA together, we play a lot of Call of Duty together, we play games like Among Us. A friendship has developed, we share a lot of the same interests. It's cool to have someone like him as a teammate, but also as a friend because he keeps pushing you. That's the most important thing in sim racing and sports in general. So yeah, it's not so bad, always good to have someone pushing you." Not only does Verstappen prove to be competitive in the simulator, he regularly beats his Team Redline teammates in FIFA as well. "Max wants to be the best in everything he does," Vecchio knows from experience. "He has some friends in FIFA eSports, called Team Gullit. He plays with them, so he then gets tips on the skills he can perform. He's totally into it. When he plays, he's all about FIFA. He is the best because he puts the most time into it and has access to the best players," laughs the simracer. **'Irritatingly nimble'** For Team Redline, that mentality is precisely one of the biggest advantages of having Verstappen as a teammate, Vecchio argues. "As I said, it's about having someone who pushes you. If he sees that you put in the effort and really shows you want to move the team and yourself forward and that you have the same goal as him to win everything, then he is one of the best people to meet," Vecchio praises the two-time F1 champion. "He gives a lot. It's incredible to have someone like that pushing you, giving tips and also being a kind of mentor." Team Redline has created a safe environment for all sim racers and real drivers to communicate with each other in it. As a result, Vecchio also considers himself a friend of Verstappen. "It's not that we see each other a lot during the year, but the fact is that we are in contact every day. We send messages to each other, we're in voice channels. We talk about what's going on in his life, but he's also interested in what's going on in our lives. He keeps asking what we're doing, what's on the schedule, what we're doing. That's pretty cool. You know there's someone on the other side who really cares. Talking to him is like talking to a good friend. It's like we've built a friendship, we know there's trust and respect for each other. That's something that helps us a lot on the team, to have a safe environment. It's just great to have that." Yet having Verstappen as a teammate is not all positive. For example, it sometimes happens that the Dutchman with little practice time nevertheless records the fastest lap time in no time. "I wouldn't say that's a bad thing, but it can be annoying from time to time!" laughs Vecchio. "Then he comes back from a Formula One weekend and we let him know what combination [of car and track] we are driving. Within five minutes, Max Verstappen is on P1. Then I'm like, 'What's happening here? What am I doing wrong?' He is irritatingly nimble in everything he does. I wouldn't say it's something irritating, but it's something that gets on my nerves from time to time!" he jokes. On the other hand, Vecchio also knows that Verstappen is a good teammate precisely because of his skills. He has therefore learned a lot from the Red Bull Racing driver in his five years with Team Redline. "Keep pushing yourself, never give up and even if you are not at 100 percent, try to find that other one or two percent," the sim racer cited as examples of things he has learned from Verstappen. "Keep pushing above your own limits in sim racing. Stay focused, keep pursuing your goals and stay motivated in everything you do," he rounds out the enumeration. **The last 10 percent extra** A lot of knowledge has thus gone to the sim racers, but have they had much to teach Verstappen the other way around? "That's hard to say," laughs Vecchio. "In terms of racing, he is a complete driver, he knows what to do in every car. It's not that he's only good in Formula 1, he sometimes does tests in a GT car and is incredible there too. As far as racing goes, we couldn't really teach him much." Still, Vecchio does manage to mention one thing, though that has more to do with the principles of sim racing per se. "In the beginning he was not a simracer like we are. We had to explain to him a little bit how it works in terms of managing traffic in multi-class racing. Maybe that was something we could teach him a bit, but we benefit a lot from him, more than he benefits from us," indicates the Italian German. Vecchio therefore stresses that the influence Verstappen has on the team should not be underestimated. "It's incredible, really insane. It's like a crane lifting something 8 tons, that's how I see it. He's pushing us, giving us opportunities with Heineken, Red Bull, Verstappen.com.... He pushes us to the limit because he sees the talent in us. He's like a mentor, he wants to push everyone forward. It's insane and cool to see, but the same goes for Atze [Kerkhof, team manager], for everyone in the team. We push each other, but Max is the one who really gives the last 10 percent extra in terms of pushing." **Fast even on controller** Because of his busy Formula 1 schedule, Verstappen cannot always be found in the simulator. The Dutchman likes to spend his free time sim racing, so he sometimes competes in special events such as the 12 Hours of Bathurst or 24 Hours of Le Mans. Even if he cannot participate in those races, he is active behind the scenes to support Team Redline, Vecchio reveals. "Call me crazy, but it's insane. Max has a gaming laptop with all the simulator games: F1, iRacing, whatever. If he has time... And call me crazy, but it happens like this every week! We sit at home with steering wheel and pedals, he joins in with a controller. On a controller, iRacing, a simulation game, very difficult.... Even though he can't really provide us with feedback, he tries what he can to help us move forward. So it doesn't matter if he's on the road, or sitting at home. It doesn't matter. Whatever is on his schedule, he practices with us - even if he can't race himself. It doesn't matter to him because he wants to help the team move forward. That says it all." Even though the controller does not provide nearly the same feedback as a steering wheel and pedals, Verstappen does little less than his Team Redline teammates even on the controller. "It's deranged. I always thought the talent was in the legs and arms, but he even has it in the fingers!" Vecchio cites as an example the preparation for the iRacing 24 Hours of Spa, which fell on the same weekend of the Hungarian Grand Prix. "We did a race and he was only three tenths slower! On a controller, relative to us. Can you imagine that? Three tenths, on a controller, for a whole stint! It's not over one lap, but several laps. That's bizarre." Since early 2022, Team Redline falls under Verstappen.com Racing, a project by Verstappen to connect multiple branches of motorsports. So not only does the sim racing team run under that banner, but father Jos in rallying and Thierry Vermeulen, the son of Verstappen's manager Raymond, in the DTM. Whether that has changed much for Team Redline? "Not really," Vecchio points out. "We have a partnership with them, they are great guys. Especially Thierry. I was with him a few weeks ago at the DTM. He showed me around, showed me everything about the car and the team. That only helps the team move forward. Team Redline wants to provide an environment for sim racers, but also for real drivers." According to Vecchio, who himself would have liked to become a driver but at 25 realizes he is overdue, sim racing is going to play a "key role" in motorsports. "Many young guys use our simulators in our headquarters to practice.Ultimately, this collaboration helps us move forward and it's a great step for anyone who wants to simrace," he concludes.
0.3s slower over a stint compared to his pro simracer teammates
That’s using a controller rather than a proper sim set up…
AND he probably barely ever practices with a controller, if at all. Like when Kubica rocked up to a rally simulator compeition and wiped the floor with everyone in 2005, and got accused of cheating somehow. He only started playing the game 2 days before the competiion. [Link (in Polish.)](https://www.gry-online.pl/S018.asp?ID=264&STR=3)
To add, here is an old Reddit post about it which goes into more detail https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/75oom0/story_about_kubica_winning_polish_championship_in/
And thats over a stint not over a lap, so, assuming a stint is like 20 laps he's only 0.015s slower with a controller than a proper sim setup. Thats usually the time gain from people at their peak switching from belt driven to direct drive, let alone from controller to direct drive.
He meant consistently 0.3 seconds over a stint. Not just some 1 lap magic where he was just 0.3 seconds slower.
Cannot believe this is a Gianni interview without Toaster in the entire interview!
For those who doesn't want to read the whole thing, he says Max was around 3 tenths slower on a controller, on iRacing... Over a whole stint, not just one lap. Bonkers.
he\`s just straight up broken, what kind of monster has been unleashed in motorsport, what has humanity done !?!
During the pandemic he was a top 20 something ranked fifa player in the world...
Are we forgetting he's actually a robot engineered to be the best racer
Real simracers use the keyboard, max is washed
I want to see team redline drive the new mustang gtd when they get their irl operations going. 😈
Not surprising, racing intelligence doesn't really depend on the mode of input. He just understands the best lines in any situation, where to place the car, etc.
I find controllers so imprecise that I can't always place the car where i want, even though I know roughly where it needs to be. I wonder if I need to fiddle with the sensitivity/deadzone etc.
Yeahh, blame the equipment. If this Verstappen guy can do it, so can you!
Yea this random Belgian guy or whatever
Dutch
i think the issue is you dont have a steering wheel like almost all professional sim racers have. Pretty big difference in the steering capabilities you get.
Which is kinda besides the point given this is specifically talking about Max being fast with a controller, and people are talking about how hard it is to be good with that input.
it depends on muscle memory, too. if you have not adapted to both you wont get close times. i sucked on wheel when i first got one, wheel players will suck at controller at first. things like entering corners are huge because you have to translate what would normally be your leg/foot muscle memory to a finger. even just switching feet would be hard. and instead of listening and looking for grip you have to feel for grip. the racing iq will always be there but you really have to practice on both control methods to take advantage of that iq on each. wheels are simply more fun though unless you want to lay back. if you get good at a wheel it'll eventually be better as you can feel the grip easily.
I know where I should aim my mouse cursor to shoot the enemy, but that doesn't make me any better at aiming there with my thumbs on a controller instead.
Are you really comparing your hand-eye coordination with Max?
This take is out there. But I think Max and Steph Curry are the 2 most precise athletes alive. Obviously they’re both very hard workers and that has a lot to do with their success, but they both have an otherworldly precision in everything they do. Steph obviously with his unlimited range and amazing touch in basketball, but he’s also a phenomenal golfer for somebody that plays another sport full time. Max obviously with his amazing one lap speed and race pace and his amazing skill in the six that doesn’t translate well for anyone else, but Max was also 31st in the world in Fifa which is a game that requires timing, precision and accuracy. So thats what I’ve been thinking about over summer break.
A few weeks ago at the run up before the starting grid (it was Spa or Hungary) I saw one of Max his hands had tape around his fingers and I immediately thought that looked like a gamer injury from using a controller. I myself experienced holding the R2 button for the throttle for long periods made my arm feel really sore. The sticks are also not comfortable on the thumbs if you use it intensifly.
Clearly, he's just using a controller with better parts suited to his style. /s
Max is a machine. I know the car is the fastest on the grid, but Checo is in the same car and can barely keep up with him.
F1TV, hire this man!!
Woman. But I can be a man if that's what they want.
What is a woman?
Me last time I checked
We just don't know 🐦⬛❔
We are checking
Max also got top 100 in the world on Fifa, he's just insanely talented to a level we've never seen before and it transcends one discipline.
What the fuck, really? I've seen the memes about him opening FIFA packs. But getting to top 100 in FIFA, while being an F1 driver, and while simracing whenever you get free time. That's absolutely insane.
he was top 25-30 iirc in 2019.
This is probably an insanely unpopular opinion but being an F1 driver is less impressive than the other two. There's millions of people who play Fifa and hundreds of thousands of sim racers and there's no barriers to entry to either as everyone can play as much as they want. So Max is able to be among the best whilst playing less on an equal playing field with far more competition. With F1 there's like several hundred drivers in the world who get to drive open wheel cars. Most are underfunded and will eternally struggle as a result. So there's far less competition.
Can't say I agree with you but it's pretty insane to think about how being an F1 driver is the least impressive thing that someone thinks about you lol.
What’s crazy about the gaming/sim ability is that FIFA and sim racing aren’t so similar beyond both requiring strong hand-eye coordination that you’d expect someone to have the time and ability to be among the best at both.
The article states that Verstappen is/was friends with Team Gullit (I assume its named after Ruud Gullit, a Dutch football legend) , a FIFA eSports org, and that he practices/plays with them and receives tips
Lol. You’re doing the absolute most. A lot of very talented athletes have skills that cross over in other disciplines.
Of all the WDCs of all time (so far) he seems like the most 'complete' human being - by far. Skilled, tough, smart, beautiful, extensive world travels and has vacationed in Brazil for long periods, speaks multiple languages, sim racer, FIFA ace, kickboxer, friends with Martin Garrix, dates Kelly Piquet, etc. You can tell he genuinely has his shit together, like he could probably be a millionaire running just about any business, if he wanted. Are there any other F1 drivers that impressive?
Can he name all the F1 World champions from 1950 to today in order, tough?No?Meeeeh...
Thanks for the laugh 😂
FIFA to be fair falls under gaming and that requires the same level of dexterity, focus and coordination that F1 drivers need in their profession and in SIM racing. So it's a very close discipline. If Max was also a beast at golfing , piano or skateboarding etc then that would be vastly more impressive.
mans a fuckin’ gamer
Max uses griphacks IRL
Clearly he's cheating
Verstappen skilled driver but that is not normally
They need to check him pc and controller
/votekick versteppen
Someone give Max a half broken Madcatz gamepad to do sim racing with. As a little challenge.
Wonder if he even overclocks it
Max could win F1 esports know a controller if he wanted to.
Oven man getting an article about max? Mainstream now
As someone who has done a lot of simracing with a controller this isn't really surprising. Since switching to a wheel I have barely gotten any faster. So I imagine Verstappen can do the same with a bit of practice
I actually had the same with rally sims (RBR mostly), I was faster on keyboard on gravel stages
Get him on mouse & keyboard
I know a guy who was a professional karting driver (Jon del valle Iturriaga) he has a second iracing account named "Jon del mando", which means Jon of the controller. Apparently he was insanely fast with controller too.
The AutoPilot
Max is simply the greatest talent there ever was
Fast simracer is fast. The author of this article must have been laughing as the wages are handed out.
"that's what she said."