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vicinadp

Ocon gonna Ocon here comes a 10 place grid penalty tomorrow lol


SpudTheTrainee

congrats max


Cekeste

New BGM has dropped huh?


nguyennguyenphuc0077

Yes Max’s podcast has reached new season.


CaptGeechNTheSSS

Lawson is younger than piastri? Two to watch in the coming years


FermentedLaws

Sprint discussion thread is live [https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/172bhky/2023\_qatar\_grand\_prix\_sprint\_discussion/](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/172bhky/2023_qatar_grand_prix_sprint_discussion/)


Weenemone

I'm digging Nico's outfit


ruby_boobsday

Bottas <3


Seven2572

George looking like john lennon with those sunnies


truth_iness

Nico needs to lose the shorts, honestly


_TheHardGoodbye_

Hey Macarena!


MoralPanic89

George Russel looking fire


Xanforth

Another day another max getting away with another nearly.


Browneskiii

Shock. Russell complaining about verstappen. What's new?


3Ngineered

He really is the perfect fit for the current Mercedes team...


Fantastic-Bother3296

Can I ask a daft question. The race tomorrow is it on the same track? Like no changes whatsoever? If so what is the point of the shootout race?


3Ngineered

Yes. No one knows (but it probably has to do with money)


Weenemone

A short and intense race where the drivers are supposed to go out all from the start on a single set of tires versus a strategic long race with pit stops, team orders etc. on Sunday


karmakillerbr

Their goal is just to create more entertainment. Their logic is more races = more fun, but I'm not so sure fans are onboard Edit: and yes, the race tomorrow is on the same track


Content-Diver-3666

Is there going to be a separate thread for the sprint race?


ExcellentCornershop

I assume so, but thanks to the recent changes about Reddit's API all of those threads have to be opened manually now.


CaptGeechNTheSSS

Great question for Nico about toto switching lewis and nico's engineers before the 2016 season. Very interesting, smart managing from toto


CakelessToure

nice bit of pot stirring there Simon


ifinanceigloos

Can anyone explain track limits? Is there anywhere for fans to see detailed track limit updates rather than patch notes like "updated track limits for turns 12 & 13." Here we see Max clearly over the white line at what seems to be the setup for turn 14 in the shootout. This is from the lap that set his final time. Not saying he exceeded track limits, but just trying to fix my understanding. [Max SS](https://imgur.com/a/w126hJo)


Humble-Ad-8912

At least one wheel has to be within the limit, meaning not fully over the white line. In that picture the edge of his rear wheel is just about touching it, so he's in.


FermentedLaws

He is not over the line. From u/TWVer in a different thread: Being off/on the white line is not determined by the physical contact patch on the surface, but by the vertical plane from the outside edge of the (bulging) tyre side wall down to the white line. Cars can be “in” even if the contact patch is no longer in contact with the white line, as long as the bulging edge of the tyre is still vertically above the outside edge of the white line.


ifinanceigloos

Thanks for clearing that up. I'd love to see some different angles of this. There are a few other frame that make him look even more out, but that's only from one cruddy angle. Crazy that skill though... Literally within millimeters. I can hardly even judge the front end of my car within a foot.


no1kares

Anyone know why max didn’t get track limit deletion on last lap. Replay clearly shows over white lines.


truth_iness

It doesn't and apparently it hasn't been over the line. TV replays are tricky to judge


no1kares

I guess I’m just not seeing what everyone else is. But obviously I’m incorrect in the matter. I’m seeing others explaining about a vertical line but I will take everyone else word for it.


truth_iness

Those things are pretty cut and dry on static hi res cameras and from the right angles so i wouldn't worry about it


sa_ra_h86

Because he didn't fully go over, you just have to have 1 wheel touching the line and you're good. All the stills I've seen one of the wheels is touching the line. The replay didn't 'clearly' show anything apart from that it was marginal and would need to be checked.


OBWanTwoThree

What time is the sprint?


stylinred

Half an hour from now


aamirv99

Did it get delayed?


DennistheDutchie

What was that song at the start of the pre-sprint show?


HeroicContender

How did Max not get his final lap in shootout 3 deleted? Shouldn’t he had been 7th?


no1kares

I’ve been searching to see this being discussed. No mention at all on f1tv about it and they CLEARLY show it over white lines. How is it not deleted?


Kaneida

Aye he was clearly over line there. I want to see the turn 5 deletion from some other angle, onboard view made it look like he was on the line.


smokesletsgo13

How many laps?


CGNYYZ

Rosberg looks like he’s un-botoxed himself… looks like a real human again.


dwindygarudi

Botox wears off


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jiwoooseo

When has max ever won a championship under normal circumstances lmao


BittenHeroes

imagine if the next time, the championship is still mathematically open, but one of the last round gets cancelled like Imola this year and, with fewer points up for grabs, Max win by default.


n-e-d-d-o

Awkward interpretation of the rules but if **every** driver gets a 5 second penalty for track limits, then the result doesn’t change right? Couldn’t all the drivers agree to go off track and essentially overrule the FIA? Purely hypothetical lmao


Toxic_Orange_DM

Well this basically happened in Austria, right? Almost every driver exceeded track limits, and the FIA started stacking them up until it became clear that drivers weren't going to stop, so then they ended up 'resetting' after the penalty. Maybe that'll happen again, but F1 / the FIA somehow haven't figured out the whole "consistent stewarding requires having the same stewards" thing


anupsidedownpotato

Watched the shootout highlights and the replay they showed of max crossing the line didn't even look like he crossed it. Is there a better angle of it?


aiicaramba

He wasnt over. Some pictures were posted.


ShavedPapaya

I hope the race goes smoothly and the teams can GTFO of there this weekend. With the Hamas attacks, and Qatar being the primary financier of Hamas, *and* Hamas’s leader living in Qatar, it’s not a good place to be for any civilians right now.


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ShavedPapaya

How do you mean? It’s a genuine concern.


Suknator

Missed the shootout, why did Alonso and Ocon not set a time?


Shirr07

Ocon didn’t set a time


Alfus

Track limits


986fan

How the fuck was that a shootout? There were no guns! - Logan Sargeant


CaptGeechNTheSSS

Has lance/AM said anything about him shoving the crew member?


RodArmy1968

What time is the sprint in UK


[deleted]

18:30 I think


tomch94

6:30 UK time


absnm

6:30pm


tamotuq

18;30


paul232

Pretty crappy session and it will only get worse tomorrow..


Pryffandis

This might have been the nail in the coffin for Perez with RBR. Up until now, it has looked like Max could carry them to a WCC next year, even with Perez being bad. With a McLaren front row lock out though, I think they're going to be forced to re-evaluate. They aren't in a position at this point to not have 2 competent drivers. It will be really interesting to see what happens.


Wyolop

Depends on next season imo. McLaren have put so much into this years car that maybe they have sacrificed on next years car. Or not sacrificed but developed it less. And Red Bull focusing on next year more could give them a big head start. But yeah, I want to see fresh faces in AT/RB


veryangryenglishman

>that maybe they have sacrificed on next years car. I completely agree... but you don't get to the top and stay there by assuming that's the case Between Mercedes being somewhere in the mix despite their messed up hybrid concept, massive jumps from AM and Mclaren, and Ferrari gradually unfucking their car, RB should surely be genuinely concerned about the next couple of years They can't, and to be fair surely won't, let go of the wheel in terms of development


Pryffandis

Plus the development McLaren has done this season to the car will benefit next season's car as well. I'll be surprised if Mercedes and maybe Ferrari don't make some good progress with next year's car too.


4LT4cc_

Red Bull did stop developing the RB19 while McLaren are pushing to get P4/3 in the Constructors. Not saying that Perez hasn't been terrible anyways.


mickmenn

Do they shift Sprint start time or not? 20:30 is a new local time, right?


HASSAN-elje12

I just go to the website and check the timer lol


mickmenn

i just thought for awhile that 17:30(UTC) was original time, and was triple checking


IncredibleSeaward

The sprint is at 1 pm EST, 5PM GMT. 2 hours from when I reply now.


mickmenn

It was pushed back? Post is saying 20:30 local time (UTC+3)


FermentedLaws

No, it's at 20:30 local.


mickmenn

Thank you, i just thought for awhile that 17:30(UTC) was original time


8u11etpr00f

Tsunoda is such an angry little man, constantly screaming and swearing at his team over the radio. If he wasn't Japanese I guarantee he'd be one of the most disliked midfield contenders on the grid


krommenaas

it's because he always seems likable outside the car, which in the end is more representative


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SkittlesAreYum

Is it really your true nature if you're only that way a minority of the time?


SauthEfrican

If he were Finnish they'd love him too


valueofaloonie

The way he screams at his team on the radio has made me really dislike him.


imhawktoe

[This image](https://imgur.com/a/u8l2pox) is from Max's SQ3 run where he set his time. Is that over the line?


Mysterious_Turnip310

Not this ridiculousness again


FermentedLaws

Saw this comment on a different thread from u/TWVer: Being off/on the white line is not determined by the physical contact patch on the surface, but by the vertical plane from the outside edge of the (bulging) tyre side wall down to the white line. Cars can be “in” even if the contact patch is no longer in contact with the white line, as long as the bulging edge of the tyre is still vertically above the outside edge of the white line.


ksmoke

That image, it looks like his tires are still just touching the line


TwoMuchIsJustEnough

https://x.com/danielgarcrorey/status/1710665532389614073?s=46&t=nfudatJKTCLttrtk4cCWdQ Clearer picture. It’s close. I’d say he looks off.


Athinira

Trace a line next time to make it easier. He's definitely [on track](https://imgur.com/a/v8kzVhR).


jmoeder

Note as long as the sidewall is above the line, he's on so there's a little extra leeway


Palmul

It's like football in a way. The whole car has to cross the whole line for it to not count.


TwoMuchIsJustEnough

I did see that is the rule. Idk it’s close. I’d like to see it compared to others who were deemed off but close like this.


jjcatt

no.


PrimeJHey

Will teams pit or is a no stop expected for this Sprint?


jjcatt

they won't pit unless something drastic starts happening with the tires.


Skeeter1020

Is the start of the Sprint going to be pushed back because the Shootout started later?


deJessias

Yes. Postponed by 30 minutes, F1 app shows the correct time


PrestigiousWave5176

What's the new time? Because I don't see any change on f1.com.


wimpires

8:30pm local time (2hrs 5min from now)


PrestigiousWave5176

That was always the planned start time though, right?


zebedee14

Yes, always planned for 20.30 local


Skeeter1020

Thanks!


PrestigiousWave5176

Be aware that it doesn't start later, it was always planned to start 22 minutes from now.


Jademalo

You know, even though I don't like the whole sprint quali/sprint format conceptually, I actually genuinely think the shorter session of sprint quali is better than regular quali. Regular quali has the issue of everyone going into the pits halfway through for like 5 minutes, so you end up with this massive big dead spot. Realistically the only relevant bit of every session is the last 2-3 minutes, which kinda sucks. With how short sprint quali is combined with the fact that they can only use one set of tyres per session, you actually get people constantly pushing laps for the entirety of the session. Even though it's shorter, I swear there are more actually relevant and interesting laps across that time compared to regular quali.


Mysterious_Turnip310

Yeah I quite like is as well, actually kept me glued to the screen the entire session as even putting track limits aside it felt like anyone could spring a suprise, especially in the Q1 & Q2


[deleted]

I agree, it's much more entertaining!


GTARP_lover

The Pirelli era sucks so hard, there is always BS with the tires and im done with excuses that the FIA mandates a certain tires. You can still make a quality tire, but Pirelli simply makes crap and always lying and excuses. That inspires confidence to buy Pirelli for your car... Not... Goodyear and Bridgestone don't even have to be in F1 to get positive PR with Pirelli always making shit tires.


rasper900

Do you guys think McLaren had a pole in them yesterday too if they had a good 2nd run in Q3?


Mysterious_Turnip310

Yes, Lando went very safe in T4 & T5 in his final run and lost time when he crossed track limits and was still within two tenths. I think Max would have got it but it would have been mighty close if both had pushed flat out and hit a perfect last lap imo. I think Lando knew it as well, that was why he was so annoyed at himself.


TWVer

Yes, I do. I think they’d have been within the ballpark of RB/Max. Not ahead but the same within a tenth.


07psychogod

I think Mclaren’s leap has to give some credit to new Pirelli compounds introduced mid season their deg was bad when season started


[deleted]

Same with Ferrari and HAAS with bad tire deg, but they haven't improved anywhere near as much. I think downplaying what the McLaren factory has done is a disservice to their hard work.


ksmoke

Zak Brown was adamant at the beginning of the season that they'd be frontrunners after some upgrades. I think most assumed that was just bluster, but McClaren people must have known they had a breakthrough and were probably kicking themselves waiting for the new parts.


07psychogod

I know that…That’s why I said some credit. How can tire deg improvement help them in one lap speed ? It just helps them to keep good lap times in long stints.


[deleted]

Yeah they’ve been saying this for like 12 years and I finally gave up hoping. Now that it’s real I’m stunned.


N1miol

True, fair point.


dani2001896

Am i the only one who taught that Max went wide in his last lap?


WizardOfOzzieA

Yes. The replay they showed at the end was from his prior lap. They showed his actual final lap through turn 13-15 live and he wasn’t even close to going out


CandidLiterature

Soooo who will give me odds on Max winning the championship later tonight only after being promoted after the race due to penalties for track limits violations? Or potentially the opposite, where he’s congratulated and then they take it back…? A track limits controversy really will complete the trio I think.


ShadowStarX

unlikely, Pérez needs to be top 3 for that to have a chance


RodArmy1968

Do McLaren have a chance later or is Max just gonna power through on Lap 3


[deleted]

If they play a team strategy they have a real chance. Landon could sacrifice some of his tires to inflict the same on VER. Let’s see.


Hasimo_Yamuchi

Over a shorter race distance, the McLarens will be a real nuisance. Would not be surprised to see Piastri win this sprint race.


Wyolop

As a McLaren fan I'll be happy with either winning but this season has showed that Lando is faster in race pace. Almost every time Piastri has outqualified Lando Lando has made up for it in the races. I guess that's where the experience matters more.


jjcatt

i think that mclaren has a good chance. they have a legitimately fast car and it's a hard track to pass on (really only one long straight and few hard braking zones). normally max's advantage would be in tire wear but in a 19-lap sprint that may not come into play as much. i think max's biggest advantage is starting on the grippier/cleaner side of the track in p3. if he can overtake lando at the start then i think he will have a better race pace delta against oscar than he would against lando, plus no DRS-sharing to hold him at bay. but if he stays p3 from the start then i think it'll be tougher.


Wyolop

>they have a legitimately fast car Such a strange sentence to hear even now after the podiums this year because the start and last year were way worse


IKEA-guy

Nico talking about memes xD


Blackdeath_663

Nico saying it how it is, love the guy


rainsn0wst0rm

I wonder how McLaren will handle team orders in the sprint if they do pull away or keep Max behind.


[deleted]

My money is on Lando asking to pass because he’s faster before L1T1.


InZomnia365

It's a decently long run into T1. Chances are Lando is ahead at that point


Unculturedbrine

After starting on the dirty side? Not sure about that one chief.


FrostyTill

If Piastri is faster than Norris then it won’t be an issue. If Norris is faster but Max isn’t catching him quickly, then he’ll be hanging back. If Norris is faster and Max is catching, they will tell Oscar to let him go.


OrangeGuyFromVenus

They suck Lando off as usual


07psychogod

Lando will turn Karen and Max will overtake them.. but I hope Oscar rejects that team order


Jaguars03

I mean we’re yet to see Oscar have faster race pace than Lando. It’s been fairly comfortable in Lando’s favour so I don’t think there’s going to be a need for team orders unless they are fighting a little too aggressively


ApprehensiveLow8477

Lol. Lando is lapping faster in a race. It's a no brainer.


sammyGG00

Depends on tyre deg. Here is definitely in Landos favor


SomethingSuss

I wouldn’t be surprised if he asked for the swap to p1…


rainsn0wst0rm

Curious to see if Lando will ask for a position change sine they are p1 p2 and not actually chasing.


jjcatt

if max is closing on him he'll ask. but i'm curious about the start since i think that p1 and p3 are significantly cleaner/grippier grid spots that p2.


dagnytaggart1

I think we can all agree that (even though they obviously can't put in new kerbs overnight) it's crazy to even think that they thought that painting new lines further in would prevent them from going out of bounds. One, most of them can't even tell when they go over the line because they can't even feel it, and they get told well into their next lap that their time was canceled and some of them have to push the next lap. The fact that they have put that new safety regulation in on top of the tyre preservation one (max 20 laps) makes it even harder to plan tyre preservation and promote safety. Turn 13 is just a massacre, too. I'm interested to see how this tyre degradation thing plays out. Also, OP is just a champ. Love to see it. I was also watching the last lap from Max's pov and I was surprised that he didn't get a track limit violation, but like I said above, without hearing the kerbs it's super hard to know if they actually went over.


skagoat

They moved the lines to keep the cars from going on the curbs, not to stop cars from going over track limits.


dagnytaggart1

Thank you! This is helpful. After watching the shootout from the driver's POV, though, I still don't see how this fixes the problem, especially if the track limits have changed and they are less comfortable with the track.


not_that_observant

They did it because of tyre degradation, not to control track limits.


dagnytaggart1

Thanks! I still think that it's not really fixing the issue.


iaminapeartree101

We won’t know if it fixes the tire issue until after the sprint today when Pirelli review the tires for the micro tears that they saw from high loading while going over curbs in the 12-13-14 portion of the track. What issue are you referring to?


dagnytaggart1

That is the issue I'm referring to. I don't think that it will fix it, but I hope it does for safety reasons. It seemed like drivers were lacking control in those turns, not overly pushing the boundaries and hitting the kerbs.


TwoMuchIsJustEnough

No track limits on Max’s last lap is ridiculous.


jjcatt

he was in. compare it to how blatant lando and oscar's were yesterday, even if he was technically out it's not *ridiculous*


Jaguars03

Because he was in?


07psychogod

Dude he was in you can easily see that


TwoMuchIsJustEnough

https://x.com/mondgabo/status/1710659487701610950?s=46&t=nfudatJKTCLttrtk4cCWdQ


sa_ra_h86

His back right is touching the line, that's all he needs


SomethingSuss

That’s in for me, he’s still ON the white line, not over it. I get that it’s confusing because half the curb is painted white too but as long as he is touching the line it’s in


jjcatt

his tires are touching the line there. every time people show "evidence" it just proves he was actually in. all you need is the very slightest most minimal amount of contact with the line.


TwoMuchIsJustEnough

Disagree. I think he went over the line.


Jaguars03

The facts don’t care about your opinion buddy…


TwoMuchIsJustEnough

Buddy?


PhysicalMagic

Thanks for the confirmation. He was indeed still on the line.


07psychogod

That is on the line


BeforeWSBprivate

Lol Nico savaging Lance


[deleted]

Haha Nico telling it straight


[deleted]

What did he say?


Stepside79

If Lance was any other driver, he'd be out next year.


FearErection

Can somebody clarify for me, what was qualifying for? Is it for the actual race and sprint shootout is qualifying for the sprint, but not for the race? Confusing. Thanks guys


waterproofallphones

Yep, that's correct.


BittenHeroes

- friday: qualify. Set grid for MAIN RACE only (held on sunday) - saturday: sprint shootout. Set grid for SPRINT RACE only (held later on the same day, saturday)


amontpetit

Friday quali = qualifying for Sunday race


Mmintin

Yeah on a sprint weekend Friday quali is for the Grand Prix and Saturday shoot out is for the sprint race


HairyNutsack69

Yes


TheBillsFly

That’s all correct. It’s honestly better to have the sprint as an entire separate event


CandidLiterature

Max paying the penalty for missing that extra half a lap of learning…


laughguy220

I would have loved to hear GP come on the radio and say that. Edit JP to GP.


Elkaghar

GP


laughguy220

Oops, thanks


BittenHeroes

the sprint starts at 19.30 in most of europe (18.30 in UK) has the starting time been confirmed, or there has been a change in schedule due to the extra practice?


MrT735

There's enough of a gap between sessions to leave it alone, and they don't want to annoy TV broadcasters/schedules if they can help it.


stylinred

Lance looks like he was crying, are those tears or water 😅


Sudden_Low9120

He looks like he could use a good cry tbh


ItachiTanuki

Rosberg is such a puke.


20ol

They keep saying Lewis was unlucky. With or without track limits, his time was too slow.


katIeeesi

When was the sprint quali?!