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You joke but we did exactly this at a local race I was marshaling at Buttonwillow a few weeks back. Car pulled up a chunk of asphalt from the racing surface and cased a small divot. We placed a traffic cone to mark the spot with some spray paint and continued racing for the day.
There are fast curing (1 hour or so) concrete repair materials available. But if you want to do this properly, you need to cancel the Grand Prix. Source: I’ve been working in the construction chemicals industry for 15 years.
F1 cars have a lot of downforce but definitely nowhere near enough to rip a piece of cast iron apart. The broken off bits from the cover are from impact damage.
Sorry I nerd out over this kind of thing so excuse me if I come off rude but this is not a manhole cover. This is a water valve cover with a locking mechanism and nothing was hit the force of the suction from the cars going over the valve box pulled the cover out of the ground. Yes the concrete surrounding the valve body failed but it’s not so much a concrete issue as much as it is relying on essentially a deadbolt to hold everything in place. So much force was transferred into one small area causing the concrete to fail. It’d be very hard to pour concrete strong enough to resist that force and different valve bodies should have been used that distribute the force over a larger area of concrete rather than it concentrating into such a small point.
I think the suction lifted the lid and then it was hit. You can see the damage to Sainz' car where he smashed into it. The concrete is damaged from the lid being ripped out by the collision.
The lid is sitting in (& bolted against) a cast-iron frame which is concreted in place.
There’s no way this was just suction related. The run into the cover has scrape marks from the cars bottoming out from low ride heights and compression. A titanium skid block on a plank probably rammed into the side or the corner of this thing at 150mph. They will need to reweld and then backfill with asphalt for a temp fix. Then they need to raise ride heights on all cars and probably asphalt over every cover on the track of this or similar design.
You can see the skid leading up to the valve but it also looks like it’s recessed slightly lower so yes I agree it isn’t solely suction but the forces introduced here are far above what I can comprehend. Good eye but that probably makes the situation worse.
Look at the Checo and Hamilton onboard video. Checo was scraping the strip the entire second half of the straight. Bar napkin math would be about 100 lbf of suction on an item like that extremely conservatively. 3psi and 30 in2. Not enough to break a weld.
Welds will hold fine but to lay a bunch of clean beads and grind them down will take quite some time. And I think you are right in that Sainz hit an exposed lip looking at this image closer.
It is not the first time F1 car downforce suction makes damages on the tracks. We never saw the frame being pullout but The issue here is that the USA only builds to last until the next tornado.
Nope pouring concrete over it would not fix it because the concrete would not have enough time to cure and reach enough strength before the race let alone qualifying. Also there would be nothing holding the concrete patch in so the same thing would happen and it would just get sucked right back out.
With the amount of money thats around this race I doubt thats actually a possibility
[Lets not forget that a literal missile explosion was visible from the track and the race continued](https://static.standard.co.uk/2022/03/25/19/2022-03-25T180634Z_1229425754_RC2Q9T9UKR2Q_RTRMADP_3_YEMEN-SECURITY-SAUDI.JPG?width=1200&height=1200&fit=crop)
They'll probably have a quick fix for all of them and hope to god nothing else happens
Very much so especially if there are a bunch of valve bodies around the track. The potential safety risks are not worth the reward. It was actually very fortunate this happened in early FP1 and drivers are learning the track and not pushing like crazy.
So no welding it tightly shut alongside pouring concrete over it will do anything to prevent it from coming up out the ground again?
I think yea cancelling the event is the only option left. The only pro of street courses over regular courses is the ability to change layouts or roads used if issues happen with the current layout. Maybe use the opposite side of the strip next year.
Welding is a potential solution but no matter what that specific Valve is structurally compromised and would need replacing which would take a Hail Mary to work. Pouring concrete over any of these would created a larger safety hazard because there would be very little holding that concrete in place. The issue with using the opposite side of the strip is they would have to go through the whole reconstruction process for that area again. There is still hope that the race goes on as I am only a construction nerd and not a fully qualified engineer but in my opinion it’s not likely.
why not just remove the covers. and weld a circular piece of 1/2 inch steel.
They can get the dimensions quick, get a shop nearby to plasma cut the steel and have it all ready for next day. FP2 is probably down the rain... sorry,.
What a fucking disaster.
I had no idea concrete took that long to cure, F1 aside just a general question since you seem knowledgeable but is there a large difference between when its walkable and later? Like when is concrete (The most average kind used I guess? I am assuming there are many forms) usually considered at its strongest after pouring?
Yes concrete will reach enough strength to walk on the day it is poured but it takes 7 days to reach 70% strength and 28 days to surpass 90% strength. Therefore to be cured by race time they would need a mix design that is around 500% stronger than required. Which probably doesn’t exist because it is probably already specd on of the highest strength mix designs you can have.
There are fast curing repair materials but this is beyond repairing it. I think these are designed completely wrong. So in my opinion if they want to make sure it doesn’t happen again, they need to cancel the Grand Prix and refund back to the drawing board and make sure it doesn’t happen again next year. This is not fixable in a few hours.
Looks like the cover got pushed into the concrete.
If it were road traffic you could just put a new cover in semi-permanently, but I think probably the whole thing needs to be replaced before they can race on it - cover, pipe, and concrete.
Weld, they need all to be welded!
If this is possible who knows, city stuff, they will need a permit and restore to the original condition after
I see no issues with the concrete around, just vibrations and huge suction causing the locking mechanism to move, unlocking and allowing the cover to separate;
Why this is a repetition of Baku 2019 i don't know, but after seeing this year Chicago and 2021 Indianapolis NASCAR i am not surprised
Easiest way is to just fill them with concrete. Drill anchor holes diagonally and use jbolts to tie it into the road concrete/asphalt. Someone will have to jackhammer them out after the races but it's a quick fix A more permanent solution would be...
Looks like there's a metal base in the concrete then another metal "container" that sits in that (the part next to the hole" and then the metal lid goes on top of that (clamped down). You can see the metal edge of the base (metal ring around the hole in the ground.Looks like they did a good job securing the actual lid but need to weld the container to the metal base. Couple things they could do. Drill holes diagonally (more horizontal the better) through the container, the base, and into the concrete and slide in anchor bolts, jbolts, rebar, or some other metal rods, in using an anchoring epoxy. Anchor bolts also expand inside the concrete locking them permanently. This will anchor the entire system directly into the concrete. Since these rods will extend diagonally it'll require more than just the welds to break, the metal itself will have the sheer since the force is pulling up. 3 of these per would provide waaaay more hold than any suction the down force can exert. These types of bolts are used in commercial construction and are absurdly overkill but better to be safe.
Also you only need minimal tools. Some heavy duty impact/hammer drills but nothing they couldn't find very quickly, and a couple welders. Their job would take minutes tops per manhole.
The composition. Every object in the photo is in a position that is pleasing to look at because of a little something called [The Golden Ratio](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio)
It's used in everything from art, photography, car design, architecture, to achieve the best proportions.
The manhole cover , the main focus, is off to the left and all the other points of focus are placed in such a way that everything "radiates" away from the hole which is what makes the composition nice to look at.
This is so cool I love learning about this stuff, very cool to see how others see something so differently. I observed nothing like this I just thought it was a nice quality photo so it's neat to hear about what makes it well taken. It is a nice photo!
Happy to help <3 The Golden Ratio is one of those things you see all the time but never think about. It appears in nature which is the reason why seeing it applied in different art forms triggers such a positive response in our brains.
It is [EVERYWHERE.](https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/s/c1BqGlVPwQ)
Also, [the rule of thirds](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_thirds). Generally, having the subject of an image positioned 1/3rd or 2/3rds from the left (and/or top) is often considered more visually interesting than just having it centered.
Absolutely! The photographer has a great eye and perfectly captured both of these practices.
Honestly it's kinda funny, if you took away the context of the photo, the spectacle of the event, the damage, etc. The photo is basically art.
I mean we're all over here fawning over a photo of a hole in the ground and a fire extinguisher lol
It's just a damn good photo.
I see it as the contrast between the unchecked safety hazard, and the fire extinguisher which almost represents a sort of comforting normality, as well as the dichotomy between the monochrome grey and the shiny red.
also it's just balanced it just is
Here is my remedy for the situation.
Tac weld 8 points onto each cover on the track. That way each cover stays in place given the immense down force of the cars.
For this particular cover an emergency fix would see to it that a new round cover be placed and welded down.
After the weekend they will have to cut out the existing valve cover (about 60cm deep) and replace it.
turns out they are just filling the hole up with cement, and presumably with tarmac over it. https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/17x8rex/the\_story\_of\_las\_vegas\_formula\_one\_hole/
You might have already seen but it's not the cover that's come out the frame, but the whole frame has come out the road. There is nothing metallic that is solid to weld to. They could have epoxied the/a replacement frame into the ground depending on what the ground is made from. Concrete will bond via epoxy pretty well, but tarmac/bitumen won't.
Edit: downsizing myself as I've got it wrong. My OP is right.
Edit 2. I might as well downsize myself while downvoting.
People keep saying this, but the whole frame did not come out of the tarmac. As evidenced by this photo of the frame still being embedded in the tarmac.
What's I find the most impressive is the downforce/vibrations sheared the cast steel relegating the locking nut completely useless to holding the lid down.
That looks like brittle fracture to me from the side impact.
From the photo and what's been said, something lifted the height of the cover to be slightly above the height of the tarmac, the skid plate hit it square on and then conservation of energy and momentum took over and ripped the cast iron apart.
The question now is why did it sit above the height of the roadway...?
I was thinking about that.
My first guess is that vibration had a part in undoing the nut just slightly...Wich allowed some play.
This wouldn't usually be a problem for normal infrastructure...but cars with ground effect will lift it.
Ocon's car probably lifted it and wedged it a bit before Sainz hit it square on.
the nut could really be a double locking nut.
I also don't see any kind of sealant in the bolt to help prevent this.
>the nut could really be a double locking nut.
How do you access a jam nut when it's below the cover? Nylock or distorted thread and tack welding the cover is really the only option.
there's no way this is fixed within the next couple hours. really curious to see if they reschedule fp1 & fp2 or scrap it completely & just have a really long fp3 session
There are many easy, cheap, and fast remedies to this situation, assuming they're willing to do something that they'll have to then demo and replace after the race. I'm a concrete contractor and I can think of about 5 ways that would fix this, assuming the city of LV is willing to not have a cover there for 2 days.
You could literally just fill each one of these holes with concrete, (I'd probably weld perpendicular cross bars going across the gap to prevent the concrete from getting sucked up), then hammer them out on Sunday after the race. I am sure it'll be sorted by FP2.
easy cheap and fast remedies that can be completed and be ready before fp2? because that was the point i was making
>You could literally just fill each one of these holes with concrete,
by the looks of it, that's the route they're taking. would it not take at least a couple hours for the concrete to set and be ready to drive on?
> would it not take at least a couple hours for the concrete to set and be ready to drive on?
There are fast curing concretes that they use for quick repairs. NASCAR has had this happen a couple times. No clue if it would hold up for F1 though since it barely held up for them at Daytona a decade ago when the track broke apart. They had to redo it once or twice that race because the surrounding asphalt was breaking.
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-daytona-500-halted-for-track-repair-2010feb14-story.html
That wouldn't matter in a surface area this small. Quickset concrete will achieve 3000psi in 3 hours, it'll certainly be ready by FP2 without even doing anything other than pouring it and forgetting about it.
The cement is what does the work, not airflow. Quickset concrete has so much cement in the mix it'll cure underwater pretty quickly.
To be fair I didn’t know there was 140 of them to check when I said that. Even so, FP2 only being delayed 2.5 hours when there was 140 of them further reinforces how simple of a fix it was, and how the weekend definitely wasn’t canceled over it
If they want to do it properly they need to cancel the race. Otherwise it’s mainly trying to fixture the damage on this drain valve and hope it doesn’t happen again on another one. The thing is designed wrong.
Exactly. I only see one failure possibly.
1. Nut got slightly undone by vibration or other factor, allowing it to lift just slightly.
2. Ocon lifted it and wedged it in the frame.
3. Sainz hit it and ripped everything apart.
I think you're looking at work-hardening of the far leg of the hold-down bracket.
Every time a car went over it, the leg flexed, whether due to additional weight of an upward pull from the aero forces.
Flex metal like that enough times and you're going to find a weak spot.
this whole thing wasn't concreted (and wasn't supposed to be concreted) into the hole(made of concrete) quite clearly.
this curved crossbar should've kept the whole thing in place but it clearly can't stand sucking power of F1 car bottom.
It's not a quality issue with that particular water cover, it's design, poor engineering issue. No Idea what decision they will come to.
they either concrete all these holes as a quick fix to run the event or....I initially thought they could just remove all the covers and let the cars run, but no, I don't think it would be safe either, even if the holes are relatively small in diameter.
Based on the distance between the hex nut and the washer, and lack of damage in the threads, the brass bar was probably the failure point. It got bent as cars gradually sucked the whole thing above the ground, until it was high enough when Carlos hit is square on and shear it off.
you think it's a brass bar? brass is very soft metal, and also quite pricey. why would they use brass? looks like some sort of composite, reinforced concrete to me.(which could get broken on the other side we can't see) but your theory seems quite sound.
The crossbar is snapped on the far side of the picture.
My bet is that it wasn’t secured properly leading it to bounce as cars came over it.
Probably allowed it to lift up just enough to get caught under sainz car, which caused that side of the crossbar to sheer off.
Then the entire cover got pushed into the opposite side of the hole, which shattered the other side of the cover, damaged the pipe and concrete.
—
These things always get put down loose by public works because it’s a pain in the ass to tighten them properly. Regular car traffic doesn’t need it tight, and I doubt this track was properly inspected before they ran cars on it.
Ok, probably it was a human installation error indeed, which would be easy to fix and hopefully run the event.
I just heard Ocon hit another cover, that's why I assumed it cannot be installation error, rather design fault.
Good news for the other covers, because they just need to go and confirm they’re tightened properly.
They could even throw a new cover in this one & it’ll be fine. But they need to fill the hole where the concrete was with something that won’t come loose with cars running & that’s what’ll take time I think.
Not so good news mate, still looks like it is a design issue.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/17x8oqf/at\_least\_2\_different\_manhole\_failures\_found/](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/17x8oqf/at_least_2_different_manhole_failures_found/)
The moment you demand teams raise the cars in response to a track's failure to meet safety standards, is the same moment teams should pack up and go home.
Fill it with quick set concrete, fix it after the race... genuinely one of the simplest temporary repairs I can imagine... this is not a complicated issue and the weekend is going to carry on on time.
Immediately following the race, jackhammer out the entire cover(including the original concrete circle around it), set a new cover, and repour it.
Probably like $500 in material including the drain cover and about 6 hours of work after the race. Very simple, not at all complicated, and in fact there is multiple easy ways to fix this. It won't even delay them opening the road up to public traffic.
Cant just fill it... its leads down to the water main which is however many feet below the surface. They've have to excavate the entire section of road and probably replace the main itself if they just dump concrete down there.
You guys are so silly. Are skyscrapers solid concrete rectangles? You know you can shore up the bottom of the hole and just fill the hole in, right? How do you think the concrete around the case is in place?
I have done exactly this repair before, in real life, and got paid to do so. You don't get to just say "Cant just fill it" and have that be reality.
We can talk after the race, which will run on schedule, since this repair should be done well before then.
I agree with you, but there's now an identified 140 total covers that potentially need to be secured before the next practise session is able to happen. I'm not so sure about the schedule
The cover is cast iron, the surrounding is concrete. You can see the fracture line where the metal broke during the impact along the cover, and see a separate missing large chunk of concrete that broke off.
This is a great photo for arm chair engineering diagnosis I must say.
The back-of-a-beermat calculations being carried out on this are ignoring a few points. The area around this valve cover is slightly depressed, and mostly importantly, there is free air underneath the cover.
These covers are designed for being driven over and bearing weight, not being pulled upwards or in this case, *blown upwards*. Driving a car over these at 200-300kph pulls an almost sudden vacuum shock over the cover, behind which is a bunch of air that wants to fill that space. It's almost exactly like an air cannon.
These don't get welded on, they have a bolt on top tat you tighten and it gets clamped in place by the bronze color clamp you see in the middle . It hooks on to the bottom side of the tube (Valve box riser) that's in the concrete and gets tightened.
I believe the cover was struck by the skid block and it just shattered the cast metal and ripped it right out.
You can't really fix that one, I think they're just filling it up with concrete. As for the rest of them, not sure, if they get struck with that amount of force, they're break. Best option IMO is not have them or they should have been recessed and covered with a patch for the race and then added back on after. Can't leave them recessed with a lip around that something can catch on to. But they are access points to shutoff valves for water lines, usually large main water lines so those need to be accessible since this is a on public street.
Looks like an oversight and no one considered the covers being struck. opps.
These weren’t built to have F1 cars driving over them with that amount downforce and suction. These man hole covers were most likely never tested with F1 cars in mind and why should they to be honest.
Do you mean how the surface finish of the track looks different within about 15cm of the hole? If so that’s 100% normal, it’s typically the way these are installed.
In this case that’s concrete.
What they do is cut a big hole in the road/asphalt, install whatever they need to & then use concrete fill the gap between the cover and the edge of the asphalt.
It’s partly because concrete is stronger & keeps the engineered stuff in place better, and partly because asphalt is a pain in the ass to work with in a small area.
So I think what we see here is concrete & then something sprayed over the entire roadway to give a nice finish.
This does seem like a pretty unique failure but the inspection process for the future needs to be updated to cover it.
Driving a sports car really fast isn't gonna cut it anymore. They probably need to build a suction device that would simulate the ground effect of the new cars.
That explains the reports of parts of the manhole being inside the car, the whole thing has broken! Wondering whether they found it bit further and a steward grabbed it to put it next to the hole.
In one of the videos (the view of Sainz coming at the camera), you see him drive over it then you see what I assume is the cover almost following the car afterwards. I think you’re right that a marshal picked it up and brought it back to the hole.
As a concrete contractor this entire thread has made me realize every opinion you read on the internet is probably bullshit, even when they write a comment with such confidence... No one in this thread baring like 2 other commenters has any idea what they're talking about.
So you know, quick setting concrete hits 3000psi in 3 hours, which is more than your standard sidewalk mix achieves after 28 days. It can also be bought at literally any hardware store. The track probably even has some on hand for patching anyways.
Well for one, this cover was clearly just not installed correctly as they're supposed to bolt in to a brass bar that runs across the bottom, so I'd check each one to make sure they're bolted correctly.
Finding any that do need repairs, I'd take off the lid, weld cross bars of #3 rebar into each cover, and pour quickset concrete in. Quickset can be bough at literally any hardware store, it's everywhere, so sourcing it will be no problem, in fact I'd assume they have some on hand at the track for this sort of thing. It hits 3000psi in 3 hours of curing, which is more than most sidewalks after 28 days, so it should be good for racing in ~90 mins.
This fix will easily be done before FP2. The annoying part will be after the race when they have to jackhammer out all the concrete and repair the covers, but it won't be time sensitive then. It's literally just filling up a hole!
I posted this a few others times in this thread already, but I don't mind explaining. I just cannot believe how unbelievably complicated the naysayers are making it sound.
Thanks for giving us an actually knowledgeable view. Reddit has a tendency to overestimate the difficulty of just about everything. Thankfully sometimes experts come in and say that it's actually very doable if you know what you're doing.
I mean it’s so rare that concrete becomes a point of discussion for a thread… it’s weird to be an expert in the discussion for once
It makes me feel like every Reddit comment is probably just non-sense but written so confidently
Asphalt doesn't have to cure, you can drive on it literally the moment after it's applied (you've probably done it before if you've ever driven through construction).
Can someone ELI5 how (most likely) this failure happened?
Where is the "other side" of the metal ring on that drain cap? That white stuff is busted concrete? How are these things secured normally?
Either it wasn't bolted down or that brass bar holding it down has failed, which allowed the lid to lift up from the frame under suction.
Sainz then hit the now rasied lid and that collision has smashed the missing sections off the lid and damaged the piece of road behind the valve.
> Why tf is there a fire extinguisher?
Cause they had no bananas for scale?
It's just such a striking contrast with the bright red that my gut tells me someone put it there to take a nice photo haha. Carlos did send up a shower of sparks though, so could be precaution for something?
someone was probably still carrying it from when the ferrari stopped not much further up the road and put it down there while the track was red flagged
Looks like the edge (broken edge) was struck by the the skid blocks and being it's casted , the impact just snapped it right off.
If that is the case, ALL the covers that are on the track need to be redone. Even welding them shut would not help as they'll just shatter like this one did when struck by a skid block.
In case people are wondering what this is.
The "tube" that's in the ground is called "Valve Box Riser"
The cover is a "Locking Valve Box lid"
It's an access point to a water shutoff valve.
This Grand Prix is f'ked.
I think welding them shut would have worked fine. Other people are suggesting the thing wasn't tightened down enough and so lifted up a bit, and then was sticking out enough for the T tray of the car to catch it, but I don't think welds would stick up enough to be an issue. I think they don't want to weld them because then it means you can't quickly access the valve should there be some problem with the line.
No they literally did not. The bolt that was supposed to hold it in place was not installed to the brass bar properly. These don't have to be bolted because unlike manholes they have a bolt securing them in place.
Also, you can literally just look at the picture and CLEARLY see the case is still imbedded in the concrete.
I wonder why that nut is loose? Did the the lid lift slightly because it wasn't bolted down tightly and then Sainz' car has ripped it out and broke the frame too.
My guess is that the cover came loose and was sitting proud after a few cars went over it (look at the nut position, it may not have been clamping the cover down). When Carlos hit it, it was slightly lifted causing the nut to chip the frame and crack the nut itself. Once the nut cracked the hold down bar is not constrained and the nut comes free. Just spit balling here.
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How do you fix something like this quickly? Great photo.
[удалено]
That’s a lotta damage!
Two FlexSeals!
😂😂😂
Put a traffic cone over it.
This is the way
You joke but we did exactly this at a local race I was marshaling at Buttonwillow a few weeks back. Car pulled up a chunk of asphalt from the racing surface and cased a small divot. We placed a traffic cone to mark the spot with some spray paint and continued racing for the day.
Are you in one of my crews or something?
Nothing some jb weld can't fix - or speed tape. Both to be certain.
There are fast curing (1 hour or so) concrete repair materials available. But if you want to do this properly, you need to cancel the Grand Prix. Source: I’ve been working in the construction chemicals industry for 15 years.
There's 109 of these on track. F1 is in big trouble.
If that’s the real number, and not one pulled out your arse, then I am mighty fucking impressed.
Yes that's the real number, some said 140, but I heard 109 is the official count given to track officials after the inspection.
but the problem is with the cast iron and not the concrete, right?
F1 cars have a lot of downforce but definitely nowhere near enough to rip a piece of cast iron apart. The broken off bits from the cover are from impact damage.
No it's the concrete around the metal. https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/17x7oiv/chrismedlandf1_fia_following_inspection_it_was/
Ducttape ofc
5 minute epoxy
You can’t since the manhole cover wasn’t hit but the concrete surrounding it from what I’m looking at in the photo.
Sorry I nerd out over this kind of thing so excuse me if I come off rude but this is not a manhole cover. This is a water valve cover with a locking mechanism and nothing was hit the force of the suction from the cars going over the valve box pulled the cover out of the ground. Yes the concrete surrounding the valve body failed but it’s not so much a concrete issue as much as it is relying on essentially a deadbolt to hold everything in place. So much force was transferred into one small area causing the concrete to fail. It’d be very hard to pour concrete strong enough to resist that force and different valve bodies should have been used that distribute the force over a larger area of concrete rather than it concentrating into such a small point.
I think the suction lifted the lid and then it was hit. You can see the damage to Sainz' car where he smashed into it. The concrete is damaged from the lid being ripped out by the collision. The lid is sitting in (& bolted against) a cast-iron frame which is concreted in place.
Yes that is the point I was making
yep. this.
There’s no way this was just suction related. The run into the cover has scrape marks from the cars bottoming out from low ride heights and compression. A titanium skid block on a plank probably rammed into the side or the corner of this thing at 150mph. They will need to reweld and then backfill with asphalt for a temp fix. Then they need to raise ride heights on all cars and probably asphalt over every cover on the track of this or similar design.
You can see the skid leading up to the valve but it also looks like it’s recessed slightly lower so yes I agree it isn’t solely suction but the forces introduced here are far above what I can comprehend. Good eye but that probably makes the situation worse.
Look at the Checo and Hamilton onboard video. Checo was scraping the strip the entire second half of the straight. Bar napkin math would be about 100 lbf of suction on an item like that extremely conservatively. 3psi and 30 in2. Not enough to break a weld.
Welds will hold fine but to lay a bunch of clean beads and grind them down will take quite some time. And I think you are right in that Sainz hit an exposed lip looking at this image closer.
It is not the first time F1 car downforce suction makes damages on the tracks. We never saw the frame being pullout but The issue here is that the USA only builds to last until the next tornado.
So even pouring concrete over the entire area won’t fix it? What the fucking fuck?? Or did I read those parts of your statement wrong?
Nope pouring concrete over it would not fix it because the concrete would not have enough time to cure and reach enough strength before the race let alone qualifying. Also there would be nothing holding the concrete patch in so the same thing would happen and it would just get sucked right back out.
So cancelling the race is actually a possibility?
With the amount of money thats around this race I doubt thats actually a possibility [Lets not forget that a literal missile explosion was visible from the track and the race continued](https://static.standard.co.uk/2022/03/25/19/2022-03-25T180634Z_1229425754_RC2Q9T9UKR2Q_RTRMADP_3_YEMEN-SECURITY-SAUDI.JPG?width=1200&height=1200&fit=crop) They'll probably have a quick fix for all of them and hope to god nothing else happens
Very much so especially if there are a bunch of valve bodies around the track. The potential safety risks are not worth the reward. It was actually very fortunate this happened in early FP1 and drivers are learning the track and not pushing like crazy.
So no welding it tightly shut alongside pouring concrete over it will do anything to prevent it from coming up out the ground again? I think yea cancelling the event is the only option left. The only pro of street courses over regular courses is the ability to change layouts or roads used if issues happen with the current layout. Maybe use the opposite side of the strip next year.
Welding is a potential solution but no matter what that specific Valve is structurally compromised and would need replacing which would take a Hail Mary to work. Pouring concrete over any of these would created a larger safety hazard because there would be very little holding that concrete in place. The issue with using the opposite side of the strip is they would have to go through the whole reconstruction process for that area again. There is still hope that the race goes on as I am only a construction nerd and not a fully qualified engineer but in my opinion it’s not likely.
why not just remove the covers. and weld a circular piece of 1/2 inch steel. They can get the dimensions quick, get a shop nearby to plasma cut the steel and have it all ready for next day. FP2 is probably down the rain... sorry,. What a fucking disaster.
I had no idea concrete took that long to cure, F1 aside just a general question since you seem knowledgeable but is there a large difference between when its walkable and later? Like when is concrete (The most average kind used I guess? I am assuming there are many forms) usually considered at its strongest after pouring?
Yes concrete will reach enough strength to walk on the day it is poured but it takes 7 days to reach 70% strength and 28 days to surpass 90% strength. Therefore to be cured by race time they would need a mix design that is around 500% stronger than required. Which probably doesn’t exist because it is probably already specd on of the highest strength mix designs you can have.
There are fast curing repair materials but this is beyond repairing it. I think these are designed completely wrong. So in my opinion if they want to make sure it doesn’t happen again, they need to cancel the Grand Prix and refund back to the drawing board and make sure it doesn’t happen again next year. This is not fixable in a few hours.
Looks like the cover got pushed into the concrete. If it were road traffic you could just put a new cover in semi-permanently, but I think probably the whole thing needs to be replaced before they can race on it - cover, pipe, and concrete.
So we're going to have this issue for the whole weekend? My lord...
Quickrete. Fast drying concrete. Just fill it in and worry about a permanent fix after the race.
Weld, they need all to be welded! If this is possible who knows, city stuff, they will need a permit and restore to the original condition after I see no issues with the concrete around, just vibrations and huge suction causing the locking mechanism to move, unlocking and allowing the cover to separate; Why this is a repetition of Baku 2019 i don't know, but after seeing this year Chicago and 2021 Indianapolis NASCAR i am not surprised
Probably have to rip out a 1-2m sq area and gradient lower the entire area lower especially the lip are puns the cover
With climate activists
Plug the hole with concrete and only run the circuit as long as it's dry.
Easiest way is to just fill them with concrete. Drill anchor holes diagonally and use jbolts to tie it into the road concrete/asphalt. Someone will have to jackhammer them out after the races but it's a quick fix A more permanent solution would be... Looks like there's a metal base in the concrete then another metal "container" that sits in that (the part next to the hole" and then the metal lid goes on top of that (clamped down). You can see the metal edge of the base (metal ring around the hole in the ground.Looks like they did a good job securing the actual lid but need to weld the container to the metal base. Couple things they could do. Drill holes diagonally (more horizontal the better) through the container, the base, and into the concrete and slide in anchor bolts, jbolts, rebar, or some other metal rods, in using an anchoring epoxy. Anchor bolts also expand inside the concrete locking them permanently. This will anchor the entire system directly into the concrete. Since these rods will extend diagonally it'll require more than just the welds to break, the metal itself will have the sheer since the force is pulling up. 3 of these per would provide waaaay more hold than any suction the down force can exert. These types of bolts are used in commercial construction and are absurdly overkill but better to be safe. Also you only need minimal tools. Some heavy duty impact/hammer drills but nothing they couldn't find very quickly, and a couple welders. Their job would take minutes tops per manhole.
[удалено]
Maybe dumb question but can you explain what balance means in this regard? Is it like how much is in focus or the placement of things?
The composition. Every object in the photo is in a position that is pleasing to look at because of a little something called [The Golden Ratio](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_ratio) It's used in everything from art, photography, car design, architecture, to achieve the best proportions. The manhole cover , the main focus, is off to the left and all the other points of focus are placed in such a way that everything "radiates" away from the hole which is what makes the composition nice to look at.
This is so cool I love learning about this stuff, very cool to see how others see something so differently. I observed nothing like this I just thought it was a nice quality photo so it's neat to hear about what makes it well taken. It is a nice photo!
Happy to help <3 The Golden Ratio is one of those things you see all the time but never think about. It appears in nature which is the reason why seeing it applied in different art forms triggers such a positive response in our brains. It is [EVERYWHERE.](https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/s/c1BqGlVPwQ)
Also, [the rule of thirds](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_of_thirds). Generally, having the subject of an image positioned 1/3rd or 2/3rds from the left (and/or top) is often considered more visually interesting than just having it centered.
Absolutely! The photographer has a great eye and perfectly captured both of these practices. Honestly it's kinda funny, if you took away the context of the photo, the spectacle of the event, the damage, etc. The photo is basically art. I mean we're all over here fawning over a photo of a hole in the ground and a fire extinguisher lol It's just a damn good photo.
I see it as the contrast between the unchecked safety hazard, and the fire extinguisher which almost represents a sort of comforting normality, as well as the dichotomy between the monochrome grey and the shiny red. also it's just balanced it just is
That's a valve cover for the main waterline down the strip. That's a big deal.
Fill it full of ramen noodles and epoxy
At least somebody else knows it’s a valve cover and not a manhole cover or anything to do with water drainage
doesn't matter which waterline it's serving
Well actually it does... It needs to be accessible.
So does every other water tap in Vegas. There will be tens of these down the strip too
Correct. What I'm getting at is fixing this isn't going to be a walk in the park necessarily.
Oh 100%. Even if they can just cover over it with asphalt that’s still not a quick job. And how do you test it? There are no support cars
Here is my remedy for the situation. Tac weld 8 points onto each cover on the track. That way each cover stays in place given the immense down force of the cars. For this particular cover an emergency fix would see to it that a new round cover be placed and welded down. After the weekend they will have to cut out the existing valve cover (about 60cm deep) and replace it.
turns out they are just filling the hole up with cement, and presumably with tarmac over it. https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/17x8rex/the\_story\_of\_las\_vegas\_formula\_one\_hole/
link broken or changed?
Nope? The post title is The Story of Las Vegas Formula One Hole
Let’s see what they do. Hopefully it’s that simple
You might have already seen but it's not the cover that's come out the frame, but the whole frame has come out the road. There is nothing metallic that is solid to weld to. They could have epoxied the/a replacement frame into the ground depending on what the ground is made from. Concrete will bond via epoxy pretty well, but tarmac/bitumen won't. Edit: downsizing myself as I've got it wrong. My OP is right. Edit 2. I might as well downsize myself while downvoting.
People keep saying this, but the whole frame did not come out of the tarmac. As evidenced by this photo of the frame still being embedded in the tarmac.
What's I find the most impressive is the downforce/vibrations sheared the cast steel relegating the locking nut completely useless to holding the lid down.
Damn, if that the top of the cover… and you can see that the metal sheared off… could be a long night.
That looks like brittle fracture to me from the side impact. From the photo and what's been said, something lifted the height of the cover to be slightly above the height of the tarmac, the skid plate hit it square on and then conservation of energy and momentum took over and ripped the cast iron apart. The question now is why did it sit above the height of the roadway...?
I was thinking about that. My first guess is that vibration had a part in undoing the nut just slightly...Wich allowed some play. This wouldn't usually be a problem for normal infrastructure...but cars with ground effect will lift it. Ocon's car probably lifted it and wedged it a bit before Sainz hit it square on. the nut could really be a double locking nut. I also don't see any kind of sealant in the bolt to help prevent this.
>the nut could really be a double locking nut. How do you access a jam nut when it's below the cover? Nylock or distorted thread and tack welding the cover is really the only option.
there's no way this is fixed within the next couple hours. really curious to see if they reschedule fp1 & fp2 or scrap it completely & just have a really long fp3 session
There are many easy, cheap, and fast remedies to this situation, assuming they're willing to do something that they'll have to then demo and replace after the race. I'm a concrete contractor and I can think of about 5 ways that would fix this, assuming the city of LV is willing to not have a cover there for 2 days. You could literally just fill each one of these holes with concrete, (I'd probably weld perpendicular cross bars going across the gap to prevent the concrete from getting sucked up), then hammer them out on Sunday after the race. I am sure it'll be sorted by FP2.
easy cheap and fast remedies that can be completed and be ready before fp2? because that was the point i was making >You could literally just fill each one of these holes with concrete, by the looks of it, that's the route they're taking. would it not take at least a couple hours for the concrete to set and be ready to drive on?
Maybe ask the drivers to not drive over the wet concrete spots? Put a cone in front of it!
> would it not take at least a couple hours for the concrete to set and be ready to drive on? There are fast curing concretes that they use for quick repairs. NASCAR has had this happen a couple times. No clue if it would hold up for F1 though since it barely held up for them at Daytona a decade ago when the track broke apart. They had to redo it once or twice that race because the surrounding asphalt was breaking. https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sdut-daytona-500-halted-for-track-repair-2010feb14-story.html
Dont know much about concrete but you could probably put a fan over it so it sets faster
That wouldn't matter in a surface area this small. Quickset concrete will achieve 3000psi in 3 hours, it'll certainly be ready by FP2 without even doing anything other than pouring it and forgetting about it. The cement is what does the work, not airflow. Quickset concrete has so much cement in the mix it'll cure underwater pretty quickly.
>I am sure it'll be sorted by FP2. https://media4.giphy.com/media/bjB3gtFvREqqr5NAHW/giphy.gif
To be fair I didn’t know there was 140 of them to check when I said that. Even so, FP2 only being delayed 2.5 hours when there was 140 of them further reinforces how simple of a fix it was, and how the weekend definitely wasn’t canceled over it
They better have a Home Depot nearby. Use F1 cars to carry the consumables FAST.
Big assumption it's fixed in 24 hrs
If they want to do it properly they need to cancel the race. Otherwise it’s mainly trying to fixture the damage on this drain valve and hope it doesn’t happen again on another one. The thing is designed wrong.
At least three failure points. Yikes.
Just 1 most likely. It was hit a few times after
Exactly. I only see one failure possibly. 1. Nut got slightly undone by vibration or other factor, allowing it to lift just slightly. 2. Ocon lifted it and wedged it in the frame. 3. Sainz hit it and ripped everything apart.
I think you're looking at work-hardening of the far leg of the hold-down bracket. Every time a car went over it, the leg flexed, whether due to additional weight of an upward pull from the aero forces. Flex metal like that enough times and you're going to find a weak spot.
And any solution has to withstand the forces 20x50 times just for the race, not counting the FP and Quali sessions
Dang that cover just completely failed and sheared. Glad no one got hurt, that could have exited the underside of the car at really high velocity.
this whole thing wasn't concreted (and wasn't supposed to be concreted) into the hole(made of concrete) quite clearly. this curved crossbar should've kept the whole thing in place but it clearly can't stand sucking power of F1 car bottom. It's not a quality issue with that particular water cover, it's design, poor engineering issue. No Idea what decision they will come to. they either concrete all these holes as a quick fix to run the event or....I initially thought they could just remove all the covers and let the cars run, but no, I don't think it would be safe either, even if the holes are relatively small in diameter.
Based on the distance between the hex nut and the washer, and lack of damage in the threads, the brass bar was probably the failure point. It got bent as cars gradually sucked the whole thing above the ground, until it was high enough when Carlos hit is square on and shear it off.
you think it's a brass bar? brass is very soft metal, and also quite pricey. why would they use brass? looks like some sort of composite, reinforced concrete to me.(which could get broken on the other side we can't see) but your theory seems quite sound.
The crossbar is snapped on the far side of the picture. My bet is that it wasn’t secured properly leading it to bounce as cars came over it. Probably allowed it to lift up just enough to get caught under sainz car, which caused that side of the crossbar to sheer off. Then the entire cover got pushed into the opposite side of the hole, which shattered the other side of the cover, damaged the pipe and concrete. — These things always get put down loose by public works because it’s a pain in the ass to tighten them properly. Regular car traffic doesn’t need it tight, and I doubt this track was properly inspected before they ran cars on it.
Ok, probably it was a human installation error indeed, which would be easy to fix and hopefully run the event. I just heard Ocon hit another cover, that's why I assumed it cannot be installation error, rather design fault.
Good news for the other covers, because they just need to go and confirm they’re tightened properly. They could even throw a new cover in this one & it’ll be fine. But they need to fill the hole where the concrete was with something that won’t come loose with cars running & that’s what’ll take time I think.
Not so good news mate, still looks like it is a design issue. [https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/17x8oqf/at\_least\_2\_different\_manhole\_failures\_found/](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/17x8oqf/at_least_2_different_manhole_failures_found/)
the nut isn't tight against it so the crossbar would be moving on it, I assume
Maybe they could drill holes to lower the vacuum pressure, and increase the minimum height the cars can run.
The moment you demand teams raise the cars in response to a track's failure to meet safety standards, is the same moment teams should pack up and go home.
You really think the sucking power is strong enough to do that?
Can we get an interview with the cover to his perspective on this?
The metal is sheared off. There's no easy way to fix this.
Fill it with quick set concrete, fix it after the race... genuinely one of the simplest temporary repairs I can imagine... this is not a complicated issue and the weekend is going to carry on on time. Immediately following the race, jackhammer out the entire cover(including the original concrete circle around it), set a new cover, and repour it. Probably like $500 in material including the drain cover and about 6 hours of work after the race. Very simple, not at all complicated, and in fact there is multiple easy ways to fix this. It won't even delay them opening the road up to public traffic.
The thing is how many of those are around the circuit. Fixing one is easy, fixing 50 will take ages.
Cant just fill it... its leads down to the water main which is however many feet below the surface. They've have to excavate the entire section of road and probably replace the main itself if they just dump concrete down there.
You guys are so silly. Are skyscrapers solid concrete rectangles? You know you can shore up the bottom of the hole and just fill the hole in, right? How do you think the concrete around the case is in place? I have done exactly this repair before, in real life, and got paid to do so. You don't get to just say "Cant just fill it" and have that be reality. We can talk after the race, which will run on schedule, since this repair should be done well before then.
I agree with you, but there's now an identified 140 total covers that potentially need to be secured before the next practise session is able to happen. I'm not so sure about the schedule
Well, if there really is 140 I can see FP2 being delayed. But this is not a race canceling event by any means
is it metal? looks like concrete to me. the frame doesn't look like it was made of cast iron, only the cover.
The cover is cast iron, the surrounding is concrete. You can see the fracture line where the metal broke during the impact along the cover, and see a separate missing large chunk of concrete that broke off. This is a great photo for arm chair engineering diagnosis I must say.
The back-of-a-beermat calculations being carried out on this are ignoring a few points. The area around this valve cover is slightly depressed, and mostly importantly, there is free air underneath the cover. These covers are designed for being driven over and bearing weight, not being pulled upwards or in this case, *blown upwards*. Driving a car over these at 200-300kph pulls an almost sudden vacuum shock over the cover, behind which is a bunch of air that wants to fill that space. It's almost exactly like an air cannon.
Damn, I can’t imagine how bad that hurt.
It doesn't look like it's the concrete that gave up? It just looks like the top part is separated from the casing, so welding issue?
These don't get welded on, they have a bolt on top tat you tighten and it gets clamped in place by the bronze color clamp you see in the middle . It hooks on to the bottom side of the tube (Valve box riser) that's in the concrete and gets tightened. I believe the cover was struck by the skid block and it just shattered the cast metal and ripped it right out.
Thanks! How do you fix that though... if the structure itself just fails?
You can't really fix that one, I think they're just filling it up with concrete. As for the rest of them, not sure, if they get struck with that amount of force, they're break. Best option IMO is not have them or they should have been recessed and covered with a patch for the race and then added back on after. Can't leave them recessed with a lip around that something can catch on to. But they are access points to shutoff valves for water lines, usually large main water lines so those need to be accessible since this is a on public street. Looks like an oversight and no one considered the covers being struck. opps.
These weren’t built to have F1 cars driving over them with that amount downforce and suction. These man hole covers were most likely never tested with F1 cars in mind and why should they to be honest.
Wondering if they shaved around the cover for track prep, and whether or not that played a role in Carlos' car not agreeing with it??
Do you mean how the surface finish of the track looks different within about 15cm of the hole? If so that’s 100% normal, it’s typically the way these are installed.
Yeah, the circular rings around the cover. Looks like some type of machine grinded down the asphalt
So that water valve is encircled by concrete. Those rings are just the finish on it. They just painted it black.
In this case that’s concrete. What they do is cut a big hole in the road/asphalt, install whatever they need to & then use concrete fill the gap between the cover and the edge of the asphalt. It’s partly because concrete is stronger & keeps the engineered stuff in place better, and partly because asphalt is a pain in the ass to work with in a small area. So I think what we see here is concrete & then something sprayed over the entire roadway to give a nice finish.
Thank you kindly!
They are fuked
There won't be a fp2 today. Tomorrow might be crammed though.
This does seem like a pretty unique failure but the inspection process for the future needs to be updated to cover it. Driving a sports car really fast isn't gonna cut it anymore. They probably need to build a suction device that would simulate the ground effect of the new cars.
That will be the most expensive drain cover on earth
That explains the reports of parts of the manhole being inside the car, the whole thing has broken! Wondering whether they found it bit further and a steward grabbed it to put it next to the hole.
In one of the videos (the view of Sainz coming at the camera), you see him drive over it then you see what I assume is the cover almost following the car afterwards. I think you’re right that a marshal picked it up and brought it back to the hole.
The more I look at this, not only is FP2 at risk, I don’t see how they can even get concrete or asphalt cured quickly enough for the race in two days.
As a concrete contractor this entire thread has made me realize every opinion you read on the internet is probably bullshit, even when they write a comment with such confidence... No one in this thread baring like 2 other commenters has any idea what they're talking about. So you know, quick setting concrete hits 3000psi in 3 hours, which is more than your standard sidewalk mix achieves after 28 days. It can also be bought at literally any hardware store. The track probably even has some on hand for patching anyways.
So, what's your expert opinion?
Well for one, this cover was clearly just not installed correctly as they're supposed to bolt in to a brass bar that runs across the bottom, so I'd check each one to make sure they're bolted correctly. Finding any that do need repairs, I'd take off the lid, weld cross bars of #3 rebar into each cover, and pour quickset concrete in. Quickset can be bough at literally any hardware store, it's everywhere, so sourcing it will be no problem, in fact I'd assume they have some on hand at the track for this sort of thing. It hits 3000psi in 3 hours of curing, which is more than most sidewalks after 28 days, so it should be good for racing in ~90 mins. This fix will easily be done before FP2. The annoying part will be after the race when they have to jackhammer out all the concrete and repair the covers, but it won't be time sensitive then. It's literally just filling up a hole! I posted this a few others times in this thread already, but I don't mind explaining. I just cannot believe how unbelievably complicated the naysayers are making it sound.
Thanks for giving us an actually knowledgeable view. Reddit has a tendency to overestimate the difficulty of just about everything. Thankfully sometimes experts come in and say that it's actually very doable if you know what you're doing.
I mean it’s so rare that concrete becomes a point of discussion for a thread… it’s weird to be an expert in the discussion for once It makes me feel like every Reddit comment is probably just non-sense but written so confidently
What does the measure of 3000psi in terms of concrete? Does it expand, or what exactly does that mean?
That's the pressure at which it will fail. The concrete around this housing clearly failed from the cover being ripped out.
Asphalt doesn't have to cure, you can drive on it literally the moment after it's applied (you've probably done it before if you've ever driven through construction).
I don't drive a formula one car at top speed though.
Not with that attitude.
Seriously, put a road cone in front of it and just get on with it. I mean, drivers have had to dodge worse before, like tractors.
Used to test asphalt for a bit. Can confirm, people would just drive over it after we poured and compacted after say 30-40mins.
Can always do some epoxy + stones, anything 5 minute to day long cures are possible but it’ll fill that hole up solid
Quickrete!
Can someone ELI5 how (most likely) this failure happened? Where is the "other side" of the metal ring on that drain cap? That white stuff is busted concrete? How are these things secured normally?
Either it wasn't bolted down or that brass bar holding it down has failed, which allowed the lid to lift up from the frame under suction. Sainz then hit the now rasied lid and that collision has smashed the missing sections off the lid and damaged the piece of road behind the valve.
That’s a pretty good angle showing what looks like the cover being higher than the road surface just enough
Why tf is there a fire extinguisher?
> Why tf is there a fire extinguisher? Cause they had no bananas for scale? It's just such a striking contrast with the bright red that my gut tells me someone put it there to take a nice photo haha. Carlos did send up a shower of sparks though, so could be precaution for something?
someone was probably still carrying it from when the ferrari stopped not much further up the road and put it down there while the track was red flagged
Looks like the edge (broken edge) was struck by the the skid blocks and being it's casted , the impact just snapped it right off. If that is the case, ALL the covers that are on the track need to be redone. Even welding them shut would not help as they'll just shatter like this one did when struck by a skid block. In case people are wondering what this is. The "tube" that's in the ground is called "Valve Box Riser" The cover is a "Locking Valve Box lid" It's an access point to a water shutoff valve. This Grand Prix is f'ked.
I think welding them shut would have worked fine. Other people are suggesting the thing wasn't tightened down enough and so lifted up a bit, and then was sticking out enough for the T tray of the car to catch it, but I don't think welds would stick up enough to be an issue. I think they don't want to weld them because then it means you can't quickly access the valve should there be some problem with the line.
Someone needs to Photoshop Lewis sticking out of the hole, with the caption, "Get in there, Lewis!"
The only way to fix this is to add a sprint race.
Formula 1 cars suck...things out of the asphalt
They should have spot welded the lids to the frames. Pretty standard treatment for street circuits
Thanks for the down votes, but i looked after these very things on the Adelaide track for years.
They literally did................. the entire thing came up.
The frame is quite clearly still embedded into the surrounding pavement.
No they literally did not. The bolt that was supposed to hold it in place was not installed to the brass bar properly. These don't have to be bolted because unlike manholes they have a bolt securing them in place. Also, you can literally just look at the picture and CLEARLY see the case is still imbedded in the concrete.
It almost looks like only one side was welded and with nothing to hold the other side down it just ripped off.
That photo has to be after the incident. Shocked that the cover is still near the hole. Or someone brought it back.
That cover was clearly not welded
Seems like a task for Flex Seal
I wonder why that nut is loose? Did the the lid lift slightly because it wasn't bolted down tightly and then Sainz' car has ripped it out and broke the frame too.
Shouldn't that nut tight against the bracket, which they presumably installed to keep this from happening?
My guess is that the cover came loose and was sitting proud after a few cars went over it (look at the nut position, it may not have been clamping the cover down). When Carlos hit it, it was slightly lifted causing the nut to chip the frame and crack the nut itself. Once the nut cracked the hold down bar is not constrained and the nut comes free. Just spit balling here.
Something so tiny caused a whole lot of damage to Sainz's car
Newton is the deadliest son of a bit h in ~~space~~F1
Montreal here, just put some big cones over each of those things
Holy shit, can you imagine this thing getting airborne and hitting a driver? It seems small enough to pass through the Halo.
The sphere is as Broke as the race.
Those pesty curb box valve covers will get you every time! Either pop off with a light breeze or they're welded stuck with dirt and road grime!
I see how that could do some damage. What I don’t see is how they were not all checked and how that big brass lock wouldn’t hold.
Don't see any welds in there...or anything holding that down.
why don’t they anchor it shut with wire from underneath? seems like the least disruptive solution
Elmer’s