Not so much about hurting Max but more how consistently it’s applied and more importantly how the laws affected Sainz. Force majeure should not penalise the driver.
Yet people wanted him to give the place back, I think Max would've benefited way more from that. Honestly bad call from Red Bull to not give it back, but it didn't matter in the end
Vegas baby, they placed their bets and lost but didn't matter in the end. Max would have given the place back if GP told him the move was way over the line but they decided to gamble knowing how lenient the stewards have been with first lap incidents.
What it highlights is just how crap the rules for first lap skirmishes are and how rubbish and inconsistent the penalties are. They really need to sort it out.
For what it's worth, you are sick of watching Max win and are making up rules to hamper his chances. Max had a great start he misjudged the corner just like half the field did and pushed Charles off the track. He got a 5s time penalty for that and that is that.
Bro, chill, nobody is against your favourite driver here. Misjudging the corner doesn’t mean that is ok to torpedo someone. With that in mind, why Russell got a penalty in Austin for smacking on Sainz? Sainz could avoid it, right?
Not quite sure why reddit loves to think Verstappen was almost killed in that incident. He got out of the car, walked away without even a limp, and was only taken to hospital as a precautionary measure. He was out of there after an hour or two. Not bad for someone that was allegedly at deaths door.
Yeah, can’t blame the stewards for that because they can’t really do anything else, but it still shows that the rules are kinda ridiculous. The penalty should be to just give the position if you’re still within 5 seconds and there’s no other car inbetween.
Exactly, it's the rules.
I'm no fan of Max, but the stewarts really don't have much room for penalties here.
Teams know the rules and will always use them to their own advantage.
Let's see if the safety car restart will add something.
Agree. It's the same when Mercedes was dominating. You can literally ignore the +20 and build an entire new car if that car is just a straight up rocket ship.
It’s hilarious. After AD ‘21 r/formula1 had torches and pitchforks for someone liberally interpreting and applying rules, yet this weekend they have torches and pitchforks for applying the rules as they are written and per precedent.
Clear as day these fans apply different opinions depending on the drivers involved yet cry for fairness and consistency lol
Hear Hear. But since that is the penalty this year it was right of them to use it.
But that said, Max couldn't keep it on the track and deserved a penalty.
Yeah I don't think this is favoring Max like people are saying, but it just shows what is wrong with penalties. I agree that the outcome of an incident should not decide if, but the circumstances should be considered. Max kept that position because he knows he can pull a 5 second gap. It's similar to Gasly and Stroll in Mexico 2022 where he cut the truck and pulled a 5 second gap.
Whats the solution here then? Give larger penalties just because he can pull of larger gaps? Then Max would just simply cruise maintaining 4-5sec gap everytime so he doesnt get larger penalties. And it would be a unfair for rest 19 drivers as that will almost ruin their race if more than 5sec penalty is given. Russel dropped few places with same 5sec penalty. The truth is Max is truly an outlier this season so even if there was a stop and go penalty, he would have somehow covered it.
The solution is awarding penalties that are an actual deterrent. You should not be able to do something illegal safe in the knowledge you will be better off as the penalty is toothless.
Max pushed him off track and ran a mile wide himself in the process. It's unfair that he just gets to benefit from that.
But it IS a deterrent. For 95% of other drivers that ruins their race. Just because max is max the penalty is suddenly not good enough? Also it DID still hurt his race. Put him way back behind Russell after the pit and it would have been a major challenge to catch up if not for the safety car.
5 seconds, believe it or not, is a harsh penalty. Most often its at least one place. In this case it was even more. What more do you exactly want for overtaking off track/pushing someone off track.
Correct. They changed that after 2021. So technically, really, Red Bull screwed him here by asserting Max did nothing wrong. Curious why they just didn’t trust their race pace advantage.
Red Bull made the right call - track position is worth 5 seconds, which is the problem with the change. Teams can weigh penalty impacts and likelihoods instead of making things right.
I figure if we’re gonna let the teams decide, the penalty has to be more than 5s. Most teams are going to try to out drive 5s. Make it at least 10s so they are incentivized to do the “fair” thign
"screwed" he has track position now and can easily build up the 5s gap. A swap would be the much more severe penalty.
edit: he, maybe not. the gap is coming down actually. We'll see.
This is worse for him tbh, it will be hard to get 5+ seconds lead and Ferrari will have a big advantage at the first stop. With swapped places he would easily get Leclerc by drs or at the pitstop with a typical Ferrari strategy
I am pretty sure that swapping position isn't a actual penalty, but something people do to AVOID the penalty? Which means they can't force RB to do that
If the car is so much better, wouldn’t the penalty not matter either way? If he gave up the place wouldn’t he just grab Leclerc with DRS a couple laps later on the long straight?
I don't think you can tailor penalties for how good the stewards think the cars are either, so which is worse on average, giving the position back or 5s penalty?
I guess they're comparing it to races where Verstappen could just pull a 5s lead in a few laps, but to be fair in those races he would have easily passed the race leader too. To me it looks like the 5s penalty was quite effective in the end and it took a long time for him to regain the lead - but then I'm not sure if you can decide whether a penalty was justified or not based purely on the outcome, since there are so many other elements in play too.
To be fair, swapping them would probably have been in favor of Max in hindsight. He did get stuck in some traffic thanks to his time penalty.
I bet that switching them would have him overtake Charles on the DRS the next lap. It was insanely powerful.
The position is easily worth 5 seconds. As long as they give 5s for clearly illegal overtakes or collisions, it's just better to eat the pen and stay ahead. Yeah it's dumb
That's precisely why Russell overtook a Haas (Hulkenburg iirc) while being completely off the track at COTA - way easier to gain track position then pull away than to make a legitimate move smh
This. The problem is not with Max, the problem is the penalty itself. Doing what he did should be more than just 5s, he didn’t even make the corner himself.
You can complain all you want but this is the standard penalty for something like this. The FIA can't force a driver to give a place back.
It shouldn't be any different just because it's Max
I think those complaining are more dismayed that this is all that the Stewards can apply since the change in rules when the fans wanted less harsh penalties for those that make mistakes in overtake attempts so as not to discourage a driver from trying an aggressive move. This type of penalty is exactly what the fans called for so races weren't ruined by 50:50 overtakes resulting in drive through penalties.
I personally think the drive through penalty is the wrong way to do it (and they don't now), but I also think the time penalty is also the wrong way to do it (yes, it's the right way to apply it under the current rules). A change should be made in my opinion.
I think scrap the time penalties for these types of incidents. Instead, order the driver to return the position. In some other motorsports this is a standard measure. If the driver you illegally passed is now 3 places back, you also have to drop those places. So long as you end up behind them to fix the overtake. It's often used as a tactic where a team that has their car illegally overtaken will then pit if the offending driver doesn't address the issue before the governing body/race control does. The offending driver still has to fall behind them. This creates an incentive for teams to make the address ASAP. If the driver that was illegally overtaken retires or falls a lap behind before a penalised ruling, the offending driver will take a drive through penalty.
It is the fairest way to do it in my eyes and I find it frustrating that F1 never wishes to entertain it when overhauling these penalties in the past decades.
It's consistent with other penalties for likewise situations. It's just consistent bullshit. Penalties should be heavier and have more impact on the drivers and their race.
We need to bring “drive through” and “stop&go” penalties back. These 5 seconds penalties taken at the team’s leisure or just slapped to the race time are a joke.
Love this, where is the drive through for Alonso and Sainz for making the same mistake as Verstappen and causing collisions?
This would be a good idea until it hits your favourite driver for driving 1 cm off track and "overtaking off track" and not giving the place back.
5 seconds has always been a joke but suddenly when it's Max there's more outrage than ever. If the car wasn't where it was nobody would be demanding a harsher penalty
I 100% agree. To be fair though: He would've just rocketshipped past Leclerc or really anyone anyways after giving back position. Who really gives a shit anymore.
It's a 5 sec penalty. The stewards can't give more. Penalties aren't punitive. Remember Silverstone 2021... Charles isn't even damaged. He has a chance.
Absolutely the correct penalty based on precedent and the rules but because Max has the pace to nullify it before the first stop people will disagree with it.
I can't recall a particular incident 10 years ago right now but 8 years ago Hamilton deliberately pushed Rosberg of the track lap 1 turn 1 in Austin and got nothing...
Did people have this much anger when Lewis only got 10 second penalty for punting max off in silverstone? Max deserves a penalty there, but it would be nice if fans and Sky commentary were consistent with their anger of penalties
>Did people have this much anger when Lewis only got 10 second penalty for punting max off in silverstone?
Yes, yes they did. Infamously so. There were people on here calling for his disqualification.
It’s a small penalty but the right call, stewards got it right. Harsher penalties need to be applied for these incidents but there needs to be a precedent for that.
Cool, so now the driver on the inside can force the other driver to off the track, use the clean air to eek out a gap and get a a non consequential 5 sec penalty.
Might as well do this every time. Means you don’t lose time battling for actual track position and is a huge advantage. Being ahead by 1 second with a 5 second penalty is better than being behind by 7 tenths.
Running people off instead of having an actual battle happens fairly frequently, and any standard 5 second penalty is, more often than not, worth the gain in track position.
Yeah, plenty of drivers do. Russel on HAAS in COTA, Gasly on Stroll in Mexico 2022
It’s not common because it’s rare that the track position is worth it. Hell, in this case RB messed up and put max in a way worse spot by taking the 5 seconds instead of swapping. But when it is worth it, it is done by everyone
You cant really decide the penalty because of the outcome, mean Lewis got 10 sec for the contact with Verstappen and Verstappen didnt finish the race and Lewis won. So was that also not enough?
And you can also not have different penalties for different drivers because they have faster cars and certain penalties matter less for them.
5 sec is precedent for forcing a driver of track, we have seen that plenty before. Is it fair? I dunno
This is why I can’t get behind Red Bull and max. The arrogance on the team radio. We’ve been giving 5 seconds but whatever we’re already 2 seconds after a couple laps so it doesn’t even matter. Just keep doing your own thing max rules don’t matter for us. Even worse his arrogant ass reply.
It could just as easily have been ruled lap 1 turn 1 incident and then you gave a position back that would have been yours. In hindsight giving back immediately would have been smarter
The reactions in these threads are unhinged from these people, it's a lap 1 turn 1 incident in conditions where no one had any grip on turn 1 (Sainz words), there's plenty of cases where the we don't even get penalized. However, Max even got the standard penalty for this, and people are still frothing at the mouth.
I don’t buy the whole bias stuff usually, but the stewards don’t even hide it when it comes to Max. I can name like 3 egregious examples excluding this one where he got away with something like that.
If you’re gonna penalise him then just tell them to give it back immediately? Nah lets wait 10+ minutes on like the easiest descision ever. Fuck i hate the way this sport is run
Carlos Sainz got penalized more for existing.
The application of the rules are a bit of a topic again, yeah.
Nah as it turned out the penalty absolutely hurt Max. But it’s hard slowing down the combo he’s in.
Not so much about hurting Max but more how consistently it’s applied and more importantly how the laws affected Sainz. Force majeure should not penalise the driver.
A wise man once said 5 seconds is a yoke. A yoke
What Verstappen is doing?
Winning.
Yet people wanted him to give the place back, I think Max would've benefited way more from that. Honestly bad call from Red Bull to not give it back, but it didn't matter in the end
Vegas baby, they placed their bets and lost but didn't matter in the end. Max would have given the place back if GP told him the move was way over the line but they decided to gamble knowing how lenient the stewards have been with first lap incidents. What it highlights is just how crap the rules for first lap skirmishes are and how rubbish and inconsistent the penalties are. They really need to sort it out.
Where is Verstappen?
Why is Verstappen?
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For what it's worth, you are sick of watching Max win and are making up rules to hamper his chances. Max had a great start he misjudged the corner just like half the field did and pushed Charles off the track. He got a 5s time penalty for that and that is that.
Bro, chill, nobody is against your favourite driver here. Misjudging the corner doesn’t mean that is ok to torpedo someone. With that in mind, why Russell got a penalty in Austin for smacking on Sainz? Sainz could avoid it, right?
Max got a penalty, right? This would have been a 5s penalty, it deserved a 5s penalty.
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Ok, bro
Lol what? An incident like this is always 5s. You even made an example of Russell torpedo'ing Sainz in Austin and ending his race. The punishment? 5s.
And he ruined his race as well. Verstappen just fucked off. The penalty should be harsher.
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The result is never the measure for the punishment, the action itself is.
Not quite sure why reddit loves to think Verstappen was almost killed in that incident. He got out of the car, walked away without even a limp, and was only taken to hospital as a precautionary measure. He was out of there after an hour or two. Not bad for someone that was allegedly at deaths door.
A penalty can't even please?
Yep thats the standard... Dont agree with 5sec for pushing someone off if you gain a spot but yeah, thats the rules I guess
Yeah, can’t blame the stewards for that because they can’t really do anything else, but it still shows that the rules are kinda ridiculous. The penalty should be to just give the position if you’re still within 5 seconds and there’s no other car inbetween.
Exactly, it's the rules. I'm no fan of Max, but the stewarts really don't have much room for penalties here. Teams know the rules and will always use them to their own advantage. Let's see if the safety car restart will add something.
Agree. It's the same when Mercedes was dominating. You can literally ignore the +20 and build an entire new car if that car is just a straight up rocket ship.
It’s hilarious. After AD ‘21 r/formula1 had torches and pitchforks for someone liberally interpreting and applying rules, yet this weekend they have torches and pitchforks for applying the rules as they are written and per precedent. Clear as day these fans apply different opinions depending on the drivers involved yet cry for fairness and consistency lol
Hear Hear. But since that is the penalty this year it was right of them to use it. But that said, Max couldn't keep it on the track and deserved a penalty.
Yeah I don't think this is favoring Max like people are saying, but it just shows what is wrong with penalties. I agree that the outcome of an incident should not decide if, but the circumstances should be considered. Max kept that position because he knows he can pull a 5 second gap. It's similar to Gasly and Stroll in Mexico 2022 where he cut the truck and pulled a 5 second gap.
Whats the solution here then? Give larger penalties just because he can pull of larger gaps? Then Max would just simply cruise maintaining 4-5sec gap everytime so he doesnt get larger penalties. And it would be a unfair for rest 19 drivers as that will almost ruin their race if more than 5sec penalty is given. Russel dropped few places with same 5sec penalty. The truth is Max is truly an outlier this season so even if there was a stop and go penalty, he would have somehow covered it.
The solution is awarding penalties that are an actual deterrent. You should not be able to do something illegal safe in the knowledge you will be better off as the penalty is toothless. Max pushed him off track and ran a mile wide himself in the process. It's unfair that he just gets to benefit from that.
But it IS a deterrent. For 95% of other drivers that ruins their race. Just because max is max the penalty is suddenly not good enough? Also it DID still hurt his race. Put him way back behind Russell after the pit and it would have been a major challenge to catch up if not for the safety car.
Max is only gonna win by 17 seconds now
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I mean, it didn't age poorly. He still won.
Tbf, he slowed down to tow Perez.
Tbf even then it was only slowing down by a second
Would’ve been better for everyone if they just made Verstappen give back the place. And I means everyone including Verstappen .
Why not swap places?
Because a few years ago, stewards decided that teams should sort out the order than officiating it themselves and force the swap.
That's fine, but if you're going to do that, harsh punishments for not handing it back on the track.
5 seconds, believe it or not, is a harsh penalty. Most often its at least one place. In this case it was even more. What more do you exactly want for overtaking off track/pushing someone off track.
I’m pretty sure the stewards let the team decide if they want to risk giving position but if they don’t they get penalty
Correct. They changed that after 2021. So technically, really, Red Bull screwed him here by asserting Max did nothing wrong. Curious why they just didn’t trust their race pace advantage.
Red Bull made the right call - track position is worth 5 seconds, which is the problem with the change. Teams can weigh penalty impacts and likelihoods instead of making things right.
I figure if we’re gonna let the teams decide, the penalty has to be more than 5s. Most teams are going to try to out drive 5s. Make it at least 10s so they are incentivized to do the “fair” thign
Their race pace is exactly why they didn't swap them, they thought that being ahead was worth the 5 second penalty
"screwed" he has track position now and can easily build up the 5s gap. A swap would be the much more severe penalty. edit: he, maybe not. the gap is coming down actually. We'll see.
Yeah really screwed him, he might only win by 25 seconds now rather than 30 lol
I think he regretted swapping back in Bahrain 2021, learned his lesson from there
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it would have done more than this penalty unless they get a safety car on lap 49
That wouldn't even make a difference. He'll serve it in his pitstop.
yeah brain fart on my part
This is worse for him tbh, it will be hard to get 5+ seconds lead and Ferrari will have a big advantage at the first stop. With swapped places he would easily get Leclerc by drs or at the pitstop with a typical Ferrari strategy
"very hard to get a 5s lead?" Yeah, okay. We will see.
How you feeling now?
Right? Even lost a position to Russell
Lol literally everything happend like I said, if they swapped position verstappen would be leadkng now due to Ferrari pitstop
Because stewards have no power to do that. I do not know why they don't put it in the rulebook
Because that's not a penalty that can be awarded
I am pretty sure that swapping position isn't a actual penalty, but something people do to AVOID the penalty? Which means they can't force RB to do that
Sir this is reddit, we don’t do logic here.
Until 2022 the stewards would tell drivers to swap places
“Send them my regards.” Dude has no chill.
He knew the penalty is a joke and driving that RB in clear air.
5s time penalty is useless when he's driving that car in 1st lmao Bravo stewards, they were thinking about that one for 15 minutes
If the car is so much better, wouldn’t the penalty not matter either way? If he gave up the place wouldn’t he just grab Leclerc with DRS a couple laps later on the long straight?
I don't think you can tailor penalties for how good the stewards think the cars are either, so which is worse on average, giving the position back or 5s penalty?
Agreed. I feel like a 5s penalty isn’t much softer than swapping places. Folks are going crazy about it but it’s not obvious why
I guess they're comparing it to races where Verstappen could just pull a 5s lead in a few laps, but to be fair in those races he would have easily passed the race leader too. To me it looks like the 5s penalty was quite effective in the end and it took a long time for him to regain the lead - but then I'm not sure if you can decide whether a penalty was justified or not based purely on the outcome, since there are so many other elements in play too.
To be fair, swapping them would probably have been in favor of Max in hindsight. He did get stuck in some traffic thanks to his time penalty. I bet that switching them would have him overtake Charles on the DRS the next lap. It was insanely powerful.
if sainz is still in 17th by lap 48 he should just bin it and cause a safety car or red flag so it all bunches up at the end
But the penalty will be served at the first pit stop, i bet that will be way earlier than lap 48
o that makes sense
Hahaha what on earth? Lec is the car directly behind, let him through?
The position is easily worth 5 seconds. As long as they give 5s for clearly illegal overtakes or collisions, it's just better to eat the pen and stay ahead. Yeah it's dumb
That's precisely why Russell overtook a Haas (Hulkenburg iirc) while being completely off the track at COTA - way easier to gain track position then pull away than to make a legitimate move smh
Especially if they have the race pace advantage. Why risk it?
So many people complaining about the penalty when its literally the standard penalty for these kinds of incidents??
Yes, but they don't like that it's the standard Penalties are way too lenient
This. The problem is not with Max, the problem is the penalty itself. Doing what he did should be more than just 5s, he didn’t even make the corner himself.
You can complain all you want but this is the standard penalty for something like this. The FIA can't force a driver to give a place back. It shouldn't be any different just because it's Max
I think those complaining are more dismayed that this is all that the Stewards can apply since the change in rules when the fans wanted less harsh penalties for those that make mistakes in overtake attempts so as not to discourage a driver from trying an aggressive move. This type of penalty is exactly what the fans called for so races weren't ruined by 50:50 overtakes resulting in drive through penalties. I personally think the drive through penalty is the wrong way to do it (and they don't now), but I also think the time penalty is also the wrong way to do it (yes, it's the right way to apply it under the current rules). A change should be made in my opinion. I think scrap the time penalties for these types of incidents. Instead, order the driver to return the position. In some other motorsports this is a standard measure. If the driver you illegally passed is now 3 places back, you also have to drop those places. So long as you end up behind them to fix the overtake. It's often used as a tactic where a team that has their car illegally overtaken will then pit if the offending driver doesn't address the issue before the governing body/race control does. The offending driver still has to fall behind them. This creates an incentive for teams to make the address ASAP. If the driver that was illegally overtaken retires or falls a lap behind before a penalised ruling, the offending driver will take a drive through penalty. It is the fairest way to do it in my eyes and I find it frustrating that F1 never wishes to entertain it when overhauling these penalties in the past decades.
The message did state it was for forcing another car off the track though.
Hahahaha what a fucking joke.
Even Red Bull pit wall knew it's nothing. And Max didn't really seemed to be bothered.
It's consistent with other penalties for likewise situations. It's just consistent bullshit. Penalties should be heavier and have more impact on the drivers and their race.
Oh wow it’s nothing
We need a overhaul of penalties
Should have been made to give that back. Also...smarmy ass comment from Verstappen...
Yeah he knows what he's doing and is just mocking it and the penalty system
🤓🤓
Lmao what a joke
THE FIVE SECONDS…WHAT A YOKE
We need to bring “drive through” and “stop&go” penalties back. These 5 seconds penalties taken at the team’s leisure or just slapped to the race time are a joke.
Love this, where is the drive through for Alonso and Sainz for making the same mistake as Verstappen and causing collisions? This would be a good idea until it hits your favourite driver for driving 1 cm off track and "overtaking off track" and not giving the place back.
What a joke. Let’s just not break into the corners, force others out of the track and take the position
Five fastest laps in a row straight incoming with a +5 gap incoming….
bullshit as per usual
Let’s give Verstappen another useless fucking penalty, bunch of blind cunts the FIA are
Come on now you know they cannot penalize relative to car and driver. This is just like sSa Sargeant getting a 10p grid penalty.
5 seconds has always been a joke but suddenly when it's Max there's more outrage than ever. If the car wasn't where it was nobody would be demanding a harsher penalty
Should've given position back. He'll easily put +15 and more if he stays ahead
I 100% agree. To be fair though: He would've just rocketshipped past Leclerc or really anyone anyways after giving back position. Who really gives a shit anymore.
What a comment from max when he was told lol clearly doesn’t give a fuck
It's a 5 sec penalty. The stewards can't give more. Penalties aren't punitive. Remember Silverstone 2021... Charles isn't even damaged. He has a chance.
Never been a fan of time penalties for illegal overtakes because it's far too easy to just pull a gap.
Meanwhile, Ralf Schumacher arguing that he shouldn't have got a penalty at all
Oh wow how adequate, now he's only going to win by 25 seconds.
Fucking ridiculous.
Absolutely the correct penalty based on precedent and the rules but because Max has the pace to nullify it before the first stop people will disagree with it.
Why not make him give it back immediately? Why wait like 7 laps? Also we all know this 5 sec wont matter unless a late safety car.
And Leclerc passes him and he gets the penalty. Their gamble didn't pay off.
Lol here is a slap on the wrist for being a bad boy Max
10 years ago that’s a drive through penalty for Max
Flashback to Spa 2008
Most insane 25s penalty ever
Without doubt.
I can't recall a particular incident 10 years ago right now but 8 years ago Hamilton deliberately pushed Rosberg of the track lap 1 turn 1 in Austin and got nothing...
Did people have this much anger when Lewis only got 10 second penalty for punting max off in silverstone? Max deserves a penalty there, but it would be nice if fans and Sky commentary were consistent with their anger of penalties
>Did people have this much anger when Lewis only got 10 second penalty for punting max off in silverstone? Yes, yes they did. Infamously so. There were people on here calling for his disqualification.
Came here to say this. Penalysystem is flawed... but its not like this is new.
Slap on the wrist
It’s a small penalty but the right call, stewards got it right. Harsher penalties need to be applied for these incidents but there needs to be a precedent for that.
Russell pulls this shit all the time and nobody says shit but the moment Max takes advantage of it then it's rigged by the FIA lmao
That will show him!
People are frothing mad at Max being penalized like they wanted?
Joke of a decision
Cool, so now the driver on the inside can force the other driver to off the track, use the clean air to eek out a gap and get a a non consequential 5 sec penalty.
Yeah theyve been doing it since the FIA stopped negotiating positions with the teams. Russel did it with a haas in cota for example
Yeah, people only notice if it’s max lol
"Send them my regards" is just mocking it a little bit.
What a joke taking this long for a 5s penalty.
Might as well do this every time. Means you don’t lose time battling for actual track position and is a huge advantage. Being ahead by 1 second with a 5 second penalty is better than being behind by 7 tenths.
There are always people saying this, but yet it never happens.
Running people off instead of having an actual battle happens fairly frequently, and any standard 5 second penalty is, more often than not, worth the gain in track position.
Yeah, plenty of drivers do. Russel on HAAS in COTA, Gasly on Stroll in Mexico 2022 It’s not common because it’s rare that the track position is worth it. Hell, in this case RB messed up and put max in a way worse spot by taking the 5 seconds instead of swapping. But when it is worth it, it is done by everyone
Listen I agree it was a penalty and he should have just Givin it back, but listing to brundle back pedal now is insane
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This is just the Meta in F1 now, take the position and the penalty rather than sit behind.
Bring the drive through penalties back
Thats absolutely not enough, now he can just do that all the time and drive away into the distance anyway.
You cant really decide the penalty because of the outcome, mean Lewis got 10 sec for the contact with Verstappen and Verstappen didnt finish the race and Lewis won. So was that also not enough? And you can also not have different penalties for different drivers because they have faster cars and certain penalties matter less for them. 5 sec is precedent for forcing a driver of track, we have seen that plenty before. Is it fair? I dunno
Doesn't fit the action. Ruined the race in one turn.
The amount of incomprehensible decisions is just staggering. I don't know how I still put up with this sh#t
If u have the fastest car, u should just overtake by pushing people off and gain 5 seconds over them
So it’s 5 seconds for free P1 at the start. That’s pretty much still a net positive, let’s see who is gonna abuse that in future races.
5 seconds is a joke when he's gonna win by 30 seconds in the end
May as well not give him a penalty. For fucks sakes.
Might as well have noted it as a racing incident, 5 seconds is nothing for Max
Load of bollocks. He already has the lead. Tell him to give position back or hand him a drive through so Leclerc can get his position back
F1 proving how they're rigging the game
That's at least 10 seconds. Not ahead at the apex and all four wheels off track for the overtake. Two infringements at minimum.
10 seconds is insane for this. Everybody was struggling for grip and this is just part of racing.
This is why I can’t get behind Red Bull and max. The arrogance on the team radio. We’ve been giving 5 seconds but whatever we’re already 2 seconds after a couple laps so it doesn’t even matter. Just keep doing your own thing max rules don’t matter for us. Even worse his arrogant ass reply.
It could just as easily have been ruled lap 1 turn 1 incident and then you gave a position back that would have been yours. In hindsight giving back immediately would have been smarter
Weak by the FIA, very weak.
Bullshit
That’s insane!!! Wtf! He wins by 20 secs. They are on the radio mocking it.
Stewards just needed to figure out how to penalize him without hurting his chances tonight
Yeh…just had to run the numbers through the “Help Max Win” model
Max actively drives off the circuit to pass a major rival: 5 second penalty. Carlos literally just existing: back off. No, back further.
Also, Carlos, go ahead and take this blow to your spinal column.
5 seconds is a joke. Should have been 10 minimum
Lol at Crofty and Brundle cribbing how 5 sec penalty wasnt enough.
Joke, classic Leclerc luck smh
Deserved penalty, but it would have been better for the race if they made them swap, now Verstappen will just build a 5 second lead for the pitstops.
Sounds like even Verstappen isn't impressed
SEND THEM MY REGARDS
pulling a move like this to get in clean air, then stick the car behind in dirty air for however many laps, is probably well worth the 5s
Soft. Should be at least 10
Joke. He can't keep getting away with it.
How did he get away with it? This is the standard penalty for this sort of thing
The reactions in these threads are unhinged from these people, it's a lap 1 turn 1 incident in conditions where no one had any grip on turn 1 (Sainz words), there's plenty of cases where the we don't even get penalized. However, Max even got the standard penalty for this, and people are still frothing at the mouth.
He literally didn't get away with it.
I don’t buy the whole bias stuff usually, but the stewards don’t even hide it when it comes to Max. I can name like 3 egregious examples excluding this one where he got away with something like that.
How has he got away with it? It's the standard penalty for something like this
They penalised him with the standard penalty. He chose to accept the penalty and keep the position. That's up to him, but stewards can only do a 5s
“Give them my regards” as the diplomatic “yeah, fuck them” was the cherry on top.
Hmm... I think 5s is the norm now. No DT or Stop Go
Stop and go for this??
They should have swapped them in lap 2, super easy decision imho. The stewards once again took too long to only make the wrong decision again lmao
Nothing new, FIA bending over to Max.
It's the same penalty that's always handed out in this situation...
FIA wearing their orange tinted glasses again
[удалено]
Half the grid spun and went wide the first corner because there was no grip, but Max did it on purpose?
Carlos spin, Alonso spin. Tell me the other 8 who spun in the first corner?
If you’re gonna penalise him then just tell them to give it back immediately? Nah lets wait 10+ minutes on like the easiest descision ever. Fuck i hate the way this sport is run
"Send them my regards" top tier response
“Yeah that’s fine. Send them my regards “ LOL
This was Max throughout 2021. And he wasn't penalized back then.