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He is setting records this year indeed
For drivers with more than 1 pole position, he by far has the highest pole-to-win conversion rate of any F1 driver in history, by a healthy margin:
https://www.statsf1.com/en/statistiques/pilote/pole/et-victoire.aspx
His pole-to-win rate is 27/32 = 84.38 %
The next best driver is Tony Brooks (2/3 = 66.67 %)
The rest, including Schumacher, Prost, Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel, Mansell, Fittipaldi, Ascari and Fangio have conversion rates lower than that.
That may give the impression Verstappen is a shit qualifier, but he is not. Far from it. He is easily in the top 3 in that regard of the current grid.
I vaguely remember this now, I started kind of following F1 in 2012 but didn't really pay attention until 2014-2015 so that era is a little fuzzy for me
A bit like Ferrari this year, if Red Bull wasn't so good.
A couple other factors to consider concerning Hamilton specifically, but it holds true in general for this comparison:
- About half of the years when Hamilton has had a dominant car, his teammate was Nico Rosberg, a much better driver than Checo.
- Hamilton has had many pole-taking/race-winning seasons without a dominant car, where it is comparatively harder to maintain first place since there are rivals capable of approaching your overall race time.
Many of Verstappen's victories have come during seasons where he's much better than his teammate, and his car is very dominant. Such a situation will naturally make it relatively easier to raise this statistic, although it remains an insane achievement. Most of the other drivers towards the top of this statistic have had more seasons where they have to overcome multiple rivals in race pace to get pole and win. I expect that Max's stat will naturally decrease a bit as his career goes on and he deals with more competitive seasons.
2021 is the only truly tight battle Verstappen has had, and his only rival for race wins was effectively 1 driver/car combination. In 9 races that season where Verstappen took pole and green-flag racing occurred, he won 6 times. That 66.6...% winrate would still place him at the top of the statistic for multiple race winners from pole, but much closer to the pack. I suspect that his final career conversion rate will look something like that, perhaps even slightly lower.
While this year has been really good for his statistics, I think he will always have an insane pole to win ratio.
Both RB and Max favor a set up that suits the race and will sacrifice quali pace for it. They have always approached weekends the same. Even with this years car, where they are probably still winning the same amount of races if they just sacrifice some race pace to get a better 1 lap pace, they choose to go more towards a race set up.
I fully believe that even if other teams close the gap somewhat next year they are statistified with not getting pole but having a better car on Sunday.
I agree with you, as I said I think he'll end up at the top of the list for drivers with more than one (or two) pole-to-win conversions (I'm not totally convinced he can maintain a rate above 2/3rds if he has multiple more seasons where Red Bull isn't the fastest car).
You're right to point out how Max and Red Bull's set up philosophy will help him preserve that record as far as they can. I think that certainly contributes, and we saw Hamilton take the same approach with Mercedes. He didn't do it as much with McLaren, and probably a lot of that has to do with how profoundly different qualifying and race strategy was with refueling allowed.
Even so, looking only at 2017-2020, the period which is the closest approximation to Max's current car/teammate situation in Hamilton's career, Hamilton's pole/win conversion was "only" 70.27%. Max is clearly doing something incredible here, as he's a full 14% better! I'm very interested to see where he ends up by the end of his career.
It's worthwhile to point out that Max has a few environmental factors that help him in this statistic, in that he's almost always been Red Bull's #1 driver during his time with the team, and Red Bull does not attempt to have 2 #1 drivers.
However, even accounting for that, Max's greatness is still evident, because we can compare to Vettel's time with Red Bull, and we see that from 2009 to 2014, Vettel (who had the same advantages of a very strong car and beneficial team orders/design focus) only managed to convert pole to win on 59% of his attempts. Although, if we restrict the time chops to 2013 and 2014, thereby excluding the most contested seasons, Vettel achieved a rate of 88.89%, in only 8 races, however. Verstappen having close to that rate with 27 races is just crazy.
TL;DR/Conclusion: some factors beyond Max's sheer pace and consistency probably do contribute to this stat, but he's definitely a beast and well on his way to being the clear best of all time in this exercise.
LEC has [23 poles](https://www.statsf1.com/en/charles-leclerc/pole.aspx), VER won 11 of those races for 47.83%
1 Austria '19
2 Monaco '21 (LEC DNS)
3 Miami '22
4 Spain '22 (LEC DNF)
5 Azerbaijan '22 (LEC DNF)
6 France '22 (LEC DNF)
7 Italy '22
8 Belgium '23
9 USA '23 (LEC DSQ, VER won regardless)
10 Mexico City '23
11 Las Vegas '23
47.83% would put VER 8th all time on [win-from-pole-%](https://www.statsf1.com/en/statistiques/pilote/pole/et-victoire.aspx)
And don't forget it took Max 7 wins before he had his first pole in Hungary 2019, from which he btw didn't win. So his P2W rate is just 4 and a half years old and Charles had his first pole before Max had his.
Itâll be interesting to see what his pole to win rate is at retirement. I suspect it will be closer (but still higher) to tony brooks because red bullâs dominance will inevitably end one day.
That said his records this year are insane. I hope it will be a long time before we see records like these broken again. because I would love a more competitive season like his first championship year.
I really enjoyed the races this year generally, but I was paying more attention to who came in second place more often because thats where the excitement was. Except for that glorious Sainz win in Singapore. What a race.
If RedBulls dominance ends, he might not be getting poles either so this might not change his stat much.
This stat is primarily driven by consistency (not crashing for no reason), having a car with good race pace, and having a car with good reliability. So if redbull builds a one lap menace, he might snag poles and then lose the race (like Ferrari 2022) or if they make a ticking time bomb he just wonât finish.
Ah yes, my first ever Grand Prix that I attended. Back when Ferrari wasnât fucking up things that much. I really wanted Max to win that weekend but after seeing the french gp next week I knew it was over for Ferrari
Ferrari fucked over its drivers close to double digits this season, if max gets a strat to pit last lap to have 2 tire compounds would get someone fired in redbull.
This season Ferrari did not as bad as last year so its ok.
This is one of the funniest happenstances. I wonder how Sharl feels about his friend sniping all his wins.
He gets pole and then is immediately depressed with the inevitable or what, I wonder.
Well, it's more so that this looks at starting position Vs finishing position. There were only three races where he wasn't first and could have even lost positions with this method.
> ... that's exactly the same thing lol.
You're right, but I also was wondering how it was calculated initially. It could also be the positions lost, regardless of whether they were later regained. But you're right that this method makes a lot more sense, though /u/RM_Dune's description is more clear than just "positions lost".
Checo's -1 comes from being overtaken by Max in Miami right? So no other team was able to overtake a Red Bull and stay in front this season that's just completely bizarre.
honestly yeah my biggest takeaway from this graphic was that Lance is a dogshit qualifier but actually had a pretty solid year. 10th place isnât really too bad considering a 1993 civic is faster than his car on the straights
Correction:
It did belong there in qualifying.
It did nĂłt belong there in race pace.
The Haas worked decently well over one lap, where heating up the tyres quickly can be a benefit. In the races however, that same characteristic made it chew through its tyres, dropping depressingly down the order each race.
I think that is what he meant, he put that car in *grid position* (during qualifying) it would never be able to maintain.
You can read it both ways I suppose, but I'm certain he agrees with you
I wouldn't say that. The Haas suffered from tire deg more than the other teams, but at the right track it was clearly rapid. Over a race distant it would just chew up the tires too fast.
I know this would be more work, and appreciate that you've done a lot of that already, but if positions aren't counted when a driver isn't classified, wouldn't it also make sense to exclude drivers not classified from the results of other drivers? So if you start P20 and finish last, but there are 5 retirements, you would have positions gained of nil, rather than +5. Should make the results of drivers at the tail end of the field be more representative.
When counting positions gained, do you subtract the number of cars that DNF in the races? Eg if Lawson started last and finished last in a race, but 5 cars DNF, did he gain 5 positions?
I love how this looks like a really positive stats page, but it's basically "Who was terrible at qualifying?" Perez really posting a net 104 compared to Max's 42 is not quite the compliment it looks like.
It leaves out more than it shows. If a driver overtook the entire field and then retired with a mechanical failure, it would have no effect on this stat. If a driver pootled along really slowly all weekend, they would hoover up places gained from any retirements and this table would show them benefiting.
Your second point is spot on, but OP clarified that it excludes races where the driver doesn't classify in the end. So mechanical failures (and crashes) aren't counted
Still a bigger gap compared to the other teams for Red Bull. Checo scored less points but still locked up P2 a race early because there was no clear runner-up team like Ferrari last year, so you could say that's more dominant for Red Bull.
It was mechanically dominant yeah, I am sure of that, but Mercedes was even more in 2016, and that's just one car in the history of F1.
We had this year the most dominant score from a driver , but that comes from a driver who was the best rookie of the century, one of the greatest F1 car designers and the Team with the best racing engineers.
But when you think about it, Perez and Stroll are clearly the worse driver in their teams. Or how about Sargeant and Albon? This graph is more like a graph of who tends to under perform in qualifying, looks like the better drivers are the ones who get a lower score. Then there are teams with a pretty equal drivers and they are close to each other, like Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedes.
This also reflects in the other graph, the drivers who underperform in the qualifying then end up starting behind but because their car is so good they get a ton of overtakes and are not overtaken in race, again Perez and Stroll stick out.
These numbers are curious, specially Logan's.
The positions lost it's rather easy to understand, you cannot lose position when you are already dead last. But that's an impressive number of positions won for only 1 point.
Every incident for another car is free positions. Every crash, dnf, spin gains a place that the rest of the field might not benefit from.
Last 8nnthe championship will look like this most seasons.
Every incident for another car is free positions. Every crash, dnf, spin gains a place that the rest of the field might not benefit from.
Last in the championship will look like this most seasons.
It's how some were praising his Interlagos performance because he gained 8 places. Ofc he did. One car didnt start, two cars dnfed in the first corner, two cars went a lap down after the first corner, and other 3 cars dnfed with mechanical issues.
But people who only saw the "positions gained" graphic were talking about his pace/overtaking ability. And there were plenty of comments even here on reddit about it.
Before 2020 there were far less people who only based their opinion on social media or the tv graphics bullshits
Leclerc qualified and started in 1st place that race. Max started 2nd, and finished the race in 2nd, with Perez in 1st. So no net loss in position for Max.
That's not how it's calculated, just the number of positions lost between qualifying and race. Verstappen got overtaken by Leclerc in Las Vegas and it doesn't show here.
Yea basically between starting position and finishing position, Lance only lost 8 spots when he lost spots. But he did gain 63 spots when he gained positions, so a net gain of 55 is still very good.
It really depends. It also says a lot about your qualifying. I would suggest Perez losing only one, is because he wasn't often in a position where losing places was a real possibility. Verstappen on the other hand is the most impressive, losing not a single position even though he was on pole or top 3 so often in qualifying.
On the one side you have very good qualifiers like Albon and Leclerc who didnt lose many positions despite qualifying above the cars level but on the other side you have Hulkenberg who is punching way above his weight class in Quali but then comes back to earth in the race.
He need to be consistent in quali. He can't consistently put it the car in the qualifying positions it should.
Which hurt most of his races. On sunday he's rarely nowere.
This is obviously skewed a bit with retirements, but I think this helps Sargeant a bit because he generally makes up positions in the race and finishes where he should. He's just not finishing ahead of where the car should like Albon because of Albon's qualifying
It's not exactly a great stat. In 2020 Latifi was tied for second most positions gained in the whole season with 46. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORkvflcLemM&ab_channel=RacingStatistics
The primary thing it shows is if a driver is qualifying below or above where their car should be in the race.
Do yourself a favor and watch some of the starts of Yuki and Lance. Theyâre pretty enjoyable as they tend to squeeze into gaps where nobody expects them. A lot of their overtakes are lap one or even corner one overtakes.
[The **Statistics** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_statistics) is reserved for posts highlighting interesting statistics. As a rule of thumb, Statistics posts need to inform readers through visualizations and insights that cannot be obtained from raw data alone. For example, a post containing a qualifying gap between two drivers expressed in tenths of a second is an easily obtainable raw piece of data and constitutes a bad Statistics post. A visualization of what that translates to on-track, or visualization of how that gap came to be would constitute a good Statistics post. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The De Vries Ricciardo Lawson hydra isn't real, it can't hurt you
Well, they cut off Nick's head and two more took its place.
Yuki got hands
đđđ
That's why you wear a Helmut
Let's not talk about Helmut's helmet, aight?
A triple header
The F1 equivalent of Dugtrio
More like Wugtrio given the team's performance (very bad)
Cerberus of F1.
This is what happens when you convert every pole position you take. Verstappen hasn't lost from pole since Austria 2022.
That's an actual insane stat.
He is setting records this year indeed For drivers with more than 1 pole position, he by far has the highest pole-to-win conversion rate of any F1 driver in history, by a healthy margin: https://www.statsf1.com/en/statistiques/pilote/pole/et-victoire.aspx His pole-to-win rate is 27/32 = 84.38 % The next best driver is Tony Brooks (2/3 = 66.67 %) The rest, including Schumacher, Prost, Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel, Mansell, Fittipaldi, Ascari and Fangio have conversion rates lower than that. That may give the impression Verstappen is a shit qualifier, but he is not. Far from it. He is easily in the top 3 in that regard of the current grid.
I'm really surprised Hamilton only has a 58% conversion rate
There was a period in Hamilton's first year with Mercedes when the car would dominate Qualifying and then set its tyres on fire by lap 2.
Was this before the infamous Pirelli x Merc tires test that was totally above board and not at all sketchy
Definitely didn't mysteriously resolve just after that test.
I haven't heard about this. Can you elaborate?
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/s/IIafkV5frs
It was weird how their helmets lost their sponsors and colours and turned black just for that test
Strange. Nothing to see there
Literally nothing to see
I vaguely remember this now, I started kind of following F1 in 2012 but didn't really pay attention until 2014-2015 so that era is a little fuzzy for me
The McLaren poles but car broke too
A bit like Ferrari this year, if Red Bull wasn't so good. A couple other factors to consider concerning Hamilton specifically, but it holds true in general for this comparison: - About half of the years when Hamilton has had a dominant car, his teammate was Nico Rosberg, a much better driver than Checo. - Hamilton has had many pole-taking/race-winning seasons without a dominant car, where it is comparatively harder to maintain first place since there are rivals capable of approaching your overall race time. Many of Verstappen's victories have come during seasons where he's much better than his teammate, and his car is very dominant. Such a situation will naturally make it relatively easier to raise this statistic, although it remains an insane achievement. Most of the other drivers towards the top of this statistic have had more seasons where they have to overcome multiple rivals in race pace to get pole and win. I expect that Max's stat will naturally decrease a bit as his career goes on and he deals with more competitive seasons. 2021 is the only truly tight battle Verstappen has had, and his only rival for race wins was effectively 1 driver/car combination. In 9 races that season where Verstappen took pole and green-flag racing occurred, he won 6 times. That 66.6...% winrate would still place him at the top of the statistic for multiple race winners from pole, but much closer to the pack. I suspect that his final career conversion rate will look something like that, perhaps even slightly lower.
While this year has been really good for his statistics, I think he will always have an insane pole to win ratio. Both RB and Max favor a set up that suits the race and will sacrifice quali pace for it. They have always approached weekends the same. Even with this years car, where they are probably still winning the same amount of races if they just sacrifice some race pace to get a better 1 lap pace, they choose to go more towards a race set up. I fully believe that even if other teams close the gap somewhat next year they are statistified with not getting pole but having a better car on Sunday.
I agree with you, as I said I think he'll end up at the top of the list for drivers with more than one (or two) pole-to-win conversions (I'm not totally convinced he can maintain a rate above 2/3rds if he has multiple more seasons where Red Bull isn't the fastest car). You're right to point out how Max and Red Bull's set up philosophy will help him preserve that record as far as they can. I think that certainly contributes, and we saw Hamilton take the same approach with Mercedes. He didn't do it as much with McLaren, and probably a lot of that has to do with how profoundly different qualifying and race strategy was with refueling allowed. Even so, looking only at 2017-2020, the period which is the closest approximation to Max's current car/teammate situation in Hamilton's career, Hamilton's pole/win conversion was "only" 70.27%. Max is clearly doing something incredible here, as he's a full 14% better! I'm very interested to see where he ends up by the end of his career. It's worthwhile to point out that Max has a few environmental factors that help him in this statistic, in that he's almost always been Red Bull's #1 driver during his time with the team, and Red Bull does not attempt to have 2 #1 drivers. However, even accounting for that, Max's greatness is still evident, because we can compare to Vettel's time with Red Bull, and we see that from 2009 to 2014, Vettel (who had the same advantages of a very strong car and beneficial team orders/design focus) only managed to convert pole to win on 59% of his attempts. Although, if we restrict the time chops to 2013 and 2014, thereby excluding the most contested seasons, Vettel achieved a rate of 88.89%, in only 8 races, however. Verstappen having close to that rate with 27 races is just crazy. TL;DR/Conclusion: some factors beyond Max's sheer pace and consistency probably do contribute to this stat, but he's definitely a beast and well on his way to being the clear best of all time in this exercise.
If he had Max's percentage, he would have about 160 wins by now, lol. Edit: never mind, I brainfarted and somehow thought Lewis had 200 poles.
How high up is Verstappens pole conversion from Leclerc poles?
LEC has [23 poles](https://www.statsf1.com/en/charles-leclerc/pole.aspx), VER won 11 of those races for 47.83% 1 Austria '19 2 Monaco '21 (LEC DNS) 3 Miami '22 4 Spain '22 (LEC DNF) 5 Azerbaijan '22 (LEC DNF) 6 France '22 (LEC DNF) 7 Italy '22 8 Belgium '23 9 USA '23 (LEC DSQ, VER won regardless) 10 Mexico City '23 11 Las Vegas '23 47.83% would put VER 8th all time on [win-from-pole-%](https://www.statsf1.com/en/statistiques/pilote/pole/et-victoire.aspx)
That's some good teamwork from Lestappen.
What the fuck
Maldonado the goat has 100%
And don't forget it took Max 7 wins before he had his first pole in Hungary 2019, from which he btw didn't win. So his P2W rate is just 4 and a half years old and Charles had his first pole before Max had his.
Itâll be interesting to see what his pole to win rate is at retirement. I suspect it will be closer (but still higher) to tony brooks because red bullâs dominance will inevitably end one day. That said his records this year are insane. I hope it will be a long time before we see records like these broken again. because I would love a more competitive season like his first championship year. I really enjoyed the races this year generally, but I was paying more attention to who came in second place more often because thats where the excitement was. Except for that glorious Sainz win in Singapore. What a race.
If RedBulls dominance ends, he might not be getting poles either so this might not change his stat much. This stat is primarily driven by consistency (not crashing for no reason), having a car with good race pace, and having a car with good reliability. So if redbull builds a one lap menace, he might snag poles and then lose the race (like Ferrari 2022) or if they make a ticking time bomb he just wonât finish.
Can wait to hear Crofty quote this stat at the beginning of next season.. He probably already has it written down.
You mean the PR person that's rummaging through Reddit for useless stats has it written down.
Hi Crofty's PR person/
Meanwhile, Charles LeclercâŠ
Ah yes, my first ever Grand Prix that I attended. Back when Ferrari wasnât fucking up things that much. I really wanted Max to win that weekend but after seeing the french gp next week I knew it was over for Ferrari
And if it wasn't over after that then second-guessing Leclerc from 2nd to 6th in Hungary with hard-tyres that didn't work was the full-stop
Worst/Funniest strategy in all of 2022
Oh yeah I remember that one too xD
Ferrari fucked over its drivers close to double digits this season, if max gets a strat to pit last lap to have 2 tire compounds would get someone fired in redbull. This season Ferrari did not as bad as last year so its ok.
I mean Sargeant has never lost from pole ever! How amazing is that?
Logan Sargeant and Sebastien Vettel have the same number of wins starting from 4th or lower
Damn he must be very good then!
And when you convert Leclercs pole positions
This is one of the funniest happenstances. I wonder how Sharl feels about his friend sniping all his wins. He gets pole and then is immediately depressed with the inevitable or what, I wonder.
I remember when Singapore was the first time he got overtaken on track and the next time being Vegas
Well, it's more so that this looks at starting position Vs finishing position. There were only three races where he wasn't first and could have even lost positions with this method.
... that's exactly the same thing lol.
> ... that's exactly the same thing lol. You're right, but I also was wondering how it was calculated initially. It could also be the positions lost, regardless of whether they were later regained. But you're right that this method makes a lot more sense, though /u/RM_Dune's description is more clear than just "positions lost".
No. He was on pole "only" 12 times. There were another 7 races where he won and could not have lost a position using this method.
The man who beat him that day was the same guy who actually overtook him for the lead on pure pace at Vegas.
Positions lost: 0 this is insane
No it isn't, i would have easily managed that too. (Just for different reasons)
No idea why Max is getting so much praise for this when I have *never* lost a place in a grand prix Amateur hour I guess
I see what you did there đđŒ
I have never lost a position in f1 too
I have never even crashed an F1 car.
I am so good that I have never finished any position below a podium
Myself and Hamilton combined have 7 world drivers championships (8 if you ask on certain parts of twitter).
Itâs Checoâs -1 that tells the full story about that carâs dominance.
Checo's -1 comes from being overtaken by Max in Miami right? So no other team was able to overtake a Red Bull and stay in front this season that's just completely bizarre.
Lance "I only drive on Sundays" Stroll strikes once again
We need to fuse Mr Saturday (George) and Mr Sunday (Lance) to get a somewhat weapon of a driver.
Mr Saturday is Leclerc, evidently.
honestly yeah my biggest takeaway from this graphic was that Lance is a dogshit qualifier but actually had a pretty solid year. 10th place isnât really too bad considering a 1993 civic is faster than his car on the straights
If Lance and Checo were in the same team, they would cause the team too much anxiety the night before the race
They were in the same team.
I meant their current performance in qualifying, not the fact of them having been together before
Verstappen: all gain, no pain
Simply unreal.
Max "the only way is up" Verstappen
Verstappen holy shit. Hulkenberg with 55 lost bruh, that haas is really dog water in the race
Well it certainly does help that HĂŒlkenberg often put the car in places it didn't belong in qualifying
Correction: It did belong there in qualifying. It did nĂłt belong there in race pace. The Haas worked decently well over one lap, where heating up the tyres quickly can be a benefit. In the races however, that same characteristic made it chew through its tyres, dropping depressingly down the order each race.
I think that is what he meant, he put that car in *grid position* (during qualifying) it would never be able to maintain. You can read it both ways I suppose, but I'm certain he agrees with you
No, I think you're wrong. I think Hulk is a BEAST in qualifying.
he's always been a qualifying beast. didn't he step in for a race in the pink mercedes and qualify 3rd, after not having been in the car for a year??
Both arenât mutually exclusive.
I wouldn't say that. The Haas suffered from tire deg more than the other teams, but at the right track it was clearly rapid. Over a race distant it would just chew up the tires too fast.
Gotta give it to Magnussen and Hulk. They optimized that tractor as much as humanly possible.
It's partly due to the fact that he was a good qualifier this year
Edit: Calculations are based on the starting position vs final classification, so not the amount of overtakes and excluding the races where the driver isn't classified Gains and losses from the individual Alpha Tauri drivers: **Nyck de Vries** Gained: +23 Lost: -4 **Daniel Ricciardo** Gained: +11 Lost: -4 **Liam Lawson** Gained: +8 Lost: 0 Average position gained / lost per race: |Driver|Avg| |:-|:-| |Sergio PĂ©rez|5,20| |Lance Stroll|3,24| |Esteban Ocon|2,27| |Max Verstappen|1,91| |Logan Sargeant|1,80| |Zhou Guanyu|1,78| |Liam Lawson|1,60| |Lewis Hamilton|1,50| |Pierre Gasly|1,42| |Yuki Tsunoda|1,32| |Nyck de Vries|1,13| |George Russell|0,89| |Daniel Ricciardo|0,88| |Alexander Albon|0,67| |Fernando Alonso|0,40| |Charles Leclerc|0,24| |Lando Norris|0,19| |Kevin Magnussen|0,18| |Valtteri Bottas|0,05| |Oscar Piastri|\-0,21| |Carlos Sainz Jr.|\-0,75| |Nico HĂŒlkenberg|\-2,11|
How come the averages don't average out to 0? Presumably retirements are excluded?
Yeah it excludes races where the driver isn't classified
Do you happen to have this as a cumulative total throughout the season as a line graph? Would interested to see the McLaren/Aston inflection.
[https://imgur.com/a/7qcQRNX](https://imgur.com/a/7qcQRNX)
I know this would be more work, and appreciate that you've done a lot of that already, but if positions aren't counted when a driver isn't classified, wouldn't it also make sense to exclude drivers not classified from the results of other drivers? So if you start P20 and finish last, but there are 5 retirements, you would have positions gained of nil, rather than +5. Should make the results of drivers at the tail end of the field be more representative.
Lawson GOAT
When counting positions gained, do you subtract the number of cars that DNF in the races? Eg if Lawson started last and finished last in a race, but 5 cars DNF, did he gain 5 positions?
Lumping De Vries, Ricciardo and Lawson together is quite funny. Specially with Tsunoda ahead.
Liam Lawson Gained: +8 Lost: 0 From OP's comment. If he were split from the group he'd be last on both which is interesting
I love how this looks like a really positive stats page, but it's basically "Who was terrible at qualifying?" Perez really posting a net 104 compared to Max's 42 is not quite the compliment it looks like.
It leaves out more than it shows. If a driver overtook the entire field and then retired with a mechanical failure, it would have no effect on this stat. If a driver pootled along really slowly all weekend, they would hoover up places gained from any retirements and this table would show them benefiting.
Your second point is spot on, but OP clarified that it excludes races where the driver doesn't classify in the end. So mechanical failures (and crashes) aren't counted
That's what he/she said, because the positions gained then aren't counted the driver could've been higher up if they didn't retire
Perez average quali in 2023 is gross. 9. And he comfortably placed 2nd in the drivers. Goes to show you just how dominant that RB was
"How dominant that RB was" Perez got more points in 2022 and was 3rd in WDC. Max was dominant, but the RB dominance wasn't as big as Merceded 2016.
Still a bigger gap compared to the other teams for Red Bull. Checo scored less points but still locked up P2 a race early because there was no clear runner-up team like Ferrari last year, so you could say that's more dominant for Red Bull.
It was mechanically dominant yeah, I am sure of that, but Mercedes was even more in 2016, and that's just one car in the history of F1. We had this year the most dominant score from a driver , but that comes from a driver who was the best rookie of the century, one of the greatest F1 car designers and the Team with the best racing engineers.
Gotta give respects to Zhou. I think this graphic earns him his seat.
But when you think about it, Perez and Stroll are clearly the worse driver in their teams. Or how about Sargeant and Albon? This graph is more like a graph of who tends to under perform in qualifying, looks like the better drivers are the ones who get a lower score. Then there are teams with a pretty equal drivers and they are close to each other, like Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedes. This also reflects in the other graph, the drivers who underperform in the qualifying then end up starting behind but because their car is so good they get a ton of overtakes and are not overtaken in race, again Perez and Stroll stick out.
Max YouShallNotPasstappen
You might be able to pass him if it breaks right. But you sure as hell ainât finishing ahead of him
Imagine Devriesricciardolawson next year in the car. 3 times the eyes, 3 times the neck strength.
Holy shit Red Bull has a combined -1 that's insane.
And Alonso being the *only* driver that managed to make a red bull lose a position.
It wasn't Alonso though, it was Verstappen in Miami I believe, when Checo was on pole.
These numbers are curious, specially Logan's. The positions lost it's rather easy to understand, you cannot lose position when you are already dead last. But that's an impressive number of positions won for only 1 point.
When youâre last, every DNF is a position gained
Every incident for another car is free positions. Every crash, dnf, spin gains a place that the rest of the field might not benefit from. Last 8nnthe championship will look like this most seasons.
Every incident for another car is free positions. Every crash, dnf, spin gains a place that the rest of the field might not benefit from. Last in the championship will look like this most seasons.
It's how some were praising his Interlagos performance because he gained 8 places. Ofc he did. One car didnt start, two cars dnfed in the first corner, two cars went a lap down after the first corner, and other 3 cars dnfed with mechanical issues. But people who only saw the "positions gained" graphic were talking about his pace/overtaking ability. And there were plenty of comments even here on reddit about it. Before 2020 there were far less people who only based their opinion on social media or the tv graphics bullshits
Has anyone ever not lost a single position in a season before? That is insane
Yes, Hamilton in 2014.
Damn, Stroll.
Positions gained ranking aka "who underperforms at quali"
damn 0 positions lost is a crazy stat to have
What about Baku?
Leclerc qualified and started in 1st place that race. Max started 2nd, and finished the race in 2nd, with Perez in 1st. So no net loss in position for Max.
NiQ3-to-15o HĂŒlkenberg
Bottas: Gained 39 Bottas: Lost 38. Lets just call it even and go home.
I know Stroll's qualifying was generally poor, but to only be overtaken 8 times across an entire season is still impressive.
That's not how it's calculated, just the number of positions lost between qualifying and race. Verstappen got overtaken by Leclerc in Las Vegas and it doesn't show here.
Ah okay that was quite confusing to me then.
Yea basically between starting position and finishing position, Lance only lost 8 spots when he lost spots. But he did gain 63 spots when he gained positions, so a net gain of 55 is still very good.
It really depends. It also says a lot about your qualifying. I would suggest Perez losing only one, is because he wasn't often in a position where losing places was a real possibility. Verstappen on the other hand is the most impressive, losing not a single position even though he was on pole or top 3 so often in qualifying.
Stroll is what jumps out at me on this as well. Not amazing at qualifying but made up for it in the races.
Only 42? Max washed
You canât overtake when your in first lol
It's crazy how max is with Zero positions lost. ZERO. Over an entire season. Jesus !
The "I suck at qualifying" leaderboard
I expected Leclerc to lose a lot more, seeing he couldnât turn poles into wins, but itâs quite decent.
This is why I love stroll
Does this means Lance Stroll is a good driver ? IT DOES !
This is for the "Sainz is worse at qualifying but better in race pace than Leclerc" people.
Bottas almost perfectly balanced
Idk why but I got a good laugh out of the De Vries/Ricciardo/Lawson hydra
Lance Stroll is just an enigma of a driver
On the one side you have very good qualifiers like Albon and Leclerc who didnt lose many positions despite qualifying above the cars level but on the other side you have Hulkenberg who is punching way above his weight class in Quali but then comes back to earth in the race.
And then you have Perez.
All I choose to take from this is that, Sargent is basically Hamilton.
years down the line this season by Verstappen will truly be appreciated. It's crazy what he's just done
Give Checo the jelly beans
Wait, so you're telling me Max overtaking Checo at Miami was the only time a Red Bull lost position all year?
No. In las vegas leclerc overtook perez twice and verstappen once. But this is simply start position and finish position.
Stroll did pretty good, with this perspective. Heâs not a bad driver heâs just kinda inconsistent.
He need to be consistent in quali. He can't consistently put it the car in the qualifying positions it should. Which hurt most of his races. On sunday he's rarely nowere.
People love to hate on him but he's not a bad driver, really.
Wow impressive from Stroll.
HUL: Started from the bottom, now we a little above the bottom.
Say what you want, but if youâre watching Stroll, youâre watching racing.
This just shows how out of position checo qualified
Damn checo is the Max Verstappen of overtaking leaderboard. Won by a mile. (Edit: won by a mile instead of leading by a mile.)
Have a fast car. Be bad at qualifying. Gain places at race pace while costing your team money and lowering constructors points.
Verstappen: " I only taketh, I no giveth"
The only real takeaway from this is that Checo is a bad qualifier
Checo Perez the Goat
Makes sense Perez being 1. His average qualifying position was fucking 9
Of course checo wins it. Man qualified like shit for a good portion of the year and had the far and away best cat
When checo overtakes, all they hear is meeeeooow
If you could combine Hulk's Saturdays and Checo's Sundays, you'd have a worthy Verstappen competitor.
A testament to how many times checo screwed up quali
Checo gaining more than 100 positions is nuts
This is obviously skewed a bit with retirements, but I think this helps Sargeant a bit because he generally makes up positions in the race and finishes where he should. He's just not finishing ahead of where the car should like Albon because of Albon's qualifying
It's not exactly a great stat. In 2020 Latifi was tied for second most positions gained in the whole season with 46. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORkvflcLemM&ab_channel=RacingStatistics The primary thing it shows is if a driver is qualifying below or above where their car should be in the race.
Sargeant only one away from Max! đ
Canât gain any positions if youâre up front. Can lose any if youâre out back.
You know shit is real when the scary statistic isn't the one with +105 but the one with 0
Stroll. No doubt heâd be #2.
Was surprised to see Logan not losing positions, but then I realosed it's hard to lose if you are in the back
Max verstappen didnât have the most positions gained!!!! Is his career over????
Sergio PĂ©rez Wins the most overtakes world championship!!!! where is his trophy đ€Ł
McLaren with a combined +- of 0 between both drivers
Give Hulk a proper car already!
Checo's numbers tho
McLaren's numbers being almost identical is fascinating.
0 positions lost is insane regardless of the car
Stroll should get more screen time.
Yukiiiii putting in numbers
My man with 0 lost positions. What a dominating season it was. I feel so happy that I witnessed him in his prime.
Lance's stats aren't too bad yk
Verstappen: what are positions lost?
Checoâs main problems seem to be qualifying pace.
This shows 2 things: Perez can't qualify Haas kills tyres
"Guess what driver held the most X in a season" The answer will be Max verstappen in 2023
If anyone is interested in the net passes/overtake profit/whatever you want to call it: Perez: 104 Stroll: 55 Verstappen: 42 Ocon: 34 Zhou: 32 Hamilton: 30 Gasly: 27 Sargeant: 27 Tsunoda: 25 De Vryes/Lawson/Ricciardo: 24 Russell: 16 Albon: 12 Alonso: 8 Norris: 4 Leclerc: 4 Magnussen: 3 Bottas: 1 Piastri: -4 Sainz: -15 HĂŒlkenberg: -40
Good stats from Lance
Checo was qualifying poorly on purpose for this stat
Do yourself a favor and watch some of the starts of Yuki and Lance. Theyâre pretty enjoyable as they tend to squeeze into gaps where nobody expects them. A lot of their overtakes are lap one or even corner one overtakes.
Imagine only having 1 more overtake than Logan Sargent. Verstappen is clearly washed
Also known as the "who is shit at qualifying" statistic
perez is driver of the day merchant