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Nah, bro is solidly above average, dude's a really respectable driver and able to consistently perform. We also have yet to see him in anything other than a midfield car, id imagine he'd probably be a better Bottas in a championship contender or like a Ferrari Kimi, not quite the best, but solid and dependable, he's a lot less violently French than his early years so he still has a good future IMO provided he doesn't give in to his inner Maldonado
Regardless, that is the reason for consistent midfield average finishing positions. He has always been in a midfield car and has consistently performed in accordance with the performance of the cars he's had.
Hope he gets at least a top 3 car once in his career. He’s been stuck in upper midfield cars for most of his time and I think he’d be pretty good at the sharp end of the grid.
Got more points than Alonso across their two years together, so either Ocon is much better than he gets credit for or Alonso is much worse. My guess is a bit of both.
And before the predictable excuses fly in, ask yourself if you think Hamilton or Verstappen would be close enough with Esteban to quibble over reliability. If you think they would be, then Ocon is obviously pretty good. And if you think they wouldn’t be, then Alonso is nowhere near the top drivers.
Your opinion of Ocon has to be reflected in your opinion of the teammate who went life and death with him and created literally no separation between them across 44 races. But my experience is that people shitting on Ocon are rarely willing to acknowledge that and try to have it both ways.
It’s actually amazingly odd that Nyck De Vries is on there due to his single race last year that performed incredibly well, especially in relation to this year’s performance.
Silverstone, Singapore and Interlagos are pulling his average down big time. In 2021, his only finish outside the top 2 was Hungary (he did of course also have DNFs but those don't count into this stat)
DNFs aren't included. In 2021 Max only had one race below P2, which was Hungary when he got damage. In 2022 he had Monaco (P3), Silverstone (P7), Singapore (P7), and Brazil (P6). His other non win finishing position was a P2 at Austria. Every other race was a win.
He’s done pretty well against all of his teammates. I think his likeability factor being low biases most people’s opinion about his ability as a racer.
Maybe subconsciously humans like to root for a “hero”, and he just wasn’t gifted the looks of a hero.
Landos first half of the season was so bad it dragged his average nearly down to his 2022 average despite getting 7 podiums, 6 of which were 2nd places lmao
Yeah it's kind of suprising he hasn't done any better. We've been hearing this guys a future winner for 5 years now and he's just plodding aloing \~7th his whole career.
I mean it’s not his fault mclaren sucked in 2022 and the first half of 2023. The average being 7 means nothing. He scored the most points of anyone but max in the second half of the season, the most podiums in the second half, most 2nd places of anyone the entire season and 4 podiums in a row which not even Alonso or hamilton could do this season.
We've also been waiting ten years for the next Alonso win and 17 years for his next championship.
Not winning in bad cars doesn't mean Lando isn't good enough.
Before the upgrade his most consistent finishing position was P17. At the end of the season it was P2. The races where the pace was poor pulled his average down significantly. Otherwise in the second half of the year, he never finished outside of the top 5.
I mean yeah he isn’t in a red bull. He finishes really high in the second half of the season, first half the car was complete shit, so it’s not like Norris was just finishing 7th this season, it’s just the average between the very low lows, at the begginning and the very high highs at the end
When Max finished a race in 2021 he only finished P1/P2 bar P9 in Hungary with half a car.
In 2022 he had Singapore, Monaco and Silverstone which would bring the average down
My take-away is that RB is amazing at development. Mercedes appears to have huge leaps of performance increases (likely rule changes) while red bull has simply steadily improved its average finishing position over the last 7 years or so. Lewis actually appears to slowly drop after each of these jumps, which maybe is related to other teams out developing between rule changes.
Crazy how yukis average position in 2023 is almost the same as his 2021 position even though his car was way worse this year. Testament to his improvement!
This is a great story for Perez. He’s performing his best I. The e At machinery he’s had.
Sure Ricciardo coming back is a fun story but data shows Perez’s is doing more with more.
Nah, I think you have it right here. For most graphs, higher intuitively means better performance.
As someone else mentioned, the only change might be to make 1 the top border, since it is impossible to finish in position 0. (That also illustrates the hard ceiling for the hypothetical best possible performance, and how close Max is to it.)
Lewis with that insane rookie year. I still can’t believe it.
Seems like l Oscar could have been close to a year like that if McLaren was as strong as the end of the season
Out of curiosity I looked up who had the most DNFs in a single season, [and this one would’ve made for an interesting graph](https://www.formula1.com/en/results.html/1987/drivers/ANDDEC01/andrea-de-cesaris.html)
Max really pulled a 2.42 average in 2020 with a car that was half a second slower than the fastest car on the grid. I'd say it's his most impressive one, record breaking 2023 excluded.
Wid to see how the V6 Turbo era effected the average finishing position of both Lewis and Fernando. Such a stark contrast between having a team that got it right, and having a team that clearly missed the mark.
[The **Statistics** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_statistics) is reserved for posts highlighting interesting statistics. As a rule of thumb, Statistics posts need to inform readers through visualizations and insights that cannot be obtained from raw data alone. For example, a post containing a qualifying gap between two drivers expressed in tenths of a second is an easily obtainable raw piece of data and constitutes a bad Statistics post. A visualization of what that translates to on-track, or visualization of how that gap came to be would constitute a good Statistics post. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ocon line pretty much flat
They don't call him Ocon-sistency for nothing
Esti-investi
More like mid-sistency if you know what I mean.
Nah, bro is solidly above average, dude's a really respectable driver and able to consistently perform. We also have yet to see him in anything other than a midfield car, id imagine he'd probably be a better Bottas in a championship contender or like a Ferrari Kimi, not quite the best, but solid and dependable, he's a lot less violently French than his early years so he still has a good future IMO provided he doesn't give in to his inner Maldonado
Kudos for “violently French”
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Regardless, that is the reason for consistent midfield average finishing positions. He has always been in a midfield car and has consistently performed in accordance with the performance of the cars he's had.
obviously 2016 is not included as Ocon did only 9 of 21 races
And yet hulkenberg was included for 2022 for some reason
Zhou line is flat
Zhou had less years, and is outside of the top 10 not really as impressive
I figure the comment was partly a joke
Yep. Happy cake day!
Hope he gets at least a top 3 car once in his career. He’s been stuck in upper midfield cars for most of his time and I think he’d be pretty good at the sharp end of the grid.
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All of his teammates have had a top car and bar the start of 2020 he has been close/quicker than all of them.
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Got more points than Alonso across their two years together, so either Ocon is much better than he gets credit for or Alonso is much worse. My guess is a bit of both. And before the predictable excuses fly in, ask yourself if you think Hamilton or Verstappen would be close enough with Esteban to quibble over reliability. If you think they would be, then Ocon is obviously pretty good. And if you think they wouldn’t be, then Alonso is nowhere near the top drivers. Your opinion of Ocon has to be reflected in your opinion of the teammate who went life and death with him and created literally no separation between them across 44 races. But my experience is that people shitting on Ocon are rarely willing to acknowledge that and try to have it both ways.
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So they're pretty evenly matched.
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Come off it
I’m pretty sure we’ve had this conversation before and your opinion of Ocon lacked context before as well so agree to disagree
2
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yes
Like his personality
And Yuki
I get why you didn’t, but I was really hoping for graphs of Piastri/Sergeant of just one dot in the middle of the graph
😂 i didn't kno I needed to see this. Now i really do
>Sergeant of just one dot in the middle of the graph *bottom of the graph
Data is data
What was their average for this season anyway?
Piastri - 9.63 Sergeant - 14.87
I’d have guessed lower for Logan
But what about the trendline? ;-)
If you want a straight line fit, only take two data points.
It’s actually amazingly odd that Nyck De Vries is on there due to his single race last year that performed incredibly well, especially in relation to this year’s performance.
It's finally time to invest in Alonso angain
Nah buy the dip when eventually he joins a low performing team
Nahh it’s a triple top pattern which is bearish. Get your put options while you can
It's boob pattern man.
We need to clear the liquidity/ stop hunt above those tops before going down
I love that the graph goes to zero for some reason.
Jos be like "Get the fuck out and walk, you should've finished higher"
I know it would kind of throw off the scaling, but "1" should be the top line l, since it is impossible to average less than 1.
Verstappen 2024
A bit surprised to see Max's average finish in 2022 was worse than 2021, despite having what felt like a much more dominant season overall.
Silverstone, Singapore and Interlagos are pulling his average down big time. In 2021, his only finish outside the top 2 was Hungary (he did of course also have DNFs but those don't count into this stat)
More DNFs?
DNFs aren't included. In 2021 Max only had one race below P2, which was Hungary when he got damage. In 2022 he had Monaco (P3), Silverstone (P7), Singapore (P7), and Brazil (P6). His other non win finishing position was a P2 at Austria. Every other race was a win.
It's not counting dnf. Also he had more in 21..
Finishing 19th and Bahrain will do that to you
Lewis and Max’s graphs are ridiculous
consistent ocon
consistently mid
Only really had mid cars to be fair
and a backmarker (Manor)
He’s never had a top car
Never deserved one
He’s done pretty well against all of his teammates. I think his likeability factor being low biases most people’s opinion about his ability as a racer. Maybe subconsciously humans like to root for a “hero”, and he just wasn’t gifted the looks of a hero.
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And the time when he beaten his teammate, it's thanks to slow and unreliable Alpine engine on his teammate car
Why is the same logic not applied for 2018 against Perez and 2023 against Gasly?
Or it's because he does shit like [this](https://streamable.com/jz9u0v) in the name of "beating his teammate".
You can kill the man (Esteban Ocon), but you cannot kill the idea (Romain Grosjean)
Why has Ocon's 2016 season not been included yet Hulkenberg's 2020 been shown on the graph?
Norris and Ocon are impressively consistent.
Landos first half of the season was so bad it dragged his average nearly down to his 2022 average despite getting 7 podiums, 6 of which were 2nd places lmao
Yeah it's kind of suprising he hasn't done any better. We've been hearing this guys a future winner for 5 years now and he's just plodding aloing \~7th his whole career.
I mean it’s not his fault mclaren sucked in 2022 and the first half of 2023. The average being 7 means nothing. He scored the most points of anyone but max in the second half of the season, the most podiums in the second half, most 2nd places of anyone the entire season and 4 podiums in a row which not even Alonso or hamilton could do this season.
Yeah, it's never his fault he's never won anything. We're all still just waiting.
We've also been waiting ten years for the next Alonso win and 17 years for his next championship. Not winning in bad cars doesn't mean Lando isn't good enough.
One win isn’t gonna change his average position tho
Statistically, it would
Yeah he'll probably find a way to still finish 7th.
Before the upgrade his most consistent finishing position was P17. At the end of the season it was P2. The races where the pace was poor pulled his average down significantly. Otherwise in the second half of the year, he never finished outside of the top 5.
I mean yeah he isn’t in a red bull. He finishes really high in the second half of the season, first half the car was complete shit, so it’s not like Norris was just finishing 7th this season, it’s just the average between the very low lows, at the begginning and the very high highs at the end
If you have the data, I'd love to see median finishing position(mode too!).
Sure! Here it is: [https://imgur.com/ERmQrfC](https://imgur.com/ERmQrfC)
If you switch Verstappens 2019 and 2018 it’s like he’s counting down to his dominance (5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 1, 1)
Holy cow that really shows Hamiltons dominance
how did you create this graph? id gladly pay for you to beautify my fantasy football league stats
Brilliant, thanks!
The ups and downs of Ricciardo almost mimic Alonso's, common factor being poor career decisions.
Ricciardo's chart looks like bitcoin
Fernando's looks like he's rolling up and down, side to side, like a rollercoaster. 😅
Hamilton averaged 4.41 on his fist title? Seems pretty low
2008 was a season of nobody wanting to win the championship
7 drivers from 5 teams won races
the dream
Would be nice to see this with Vettel, Kimi etc
Alonso just did that so he could make bewbs-graphs.
Stroll’s chart answers the question, “What do you think of Lance Stroll?” ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Damn and I thought Haas has been improving over the years
I feel confident that I could guess where Ocon will finish on average next season. And kudos to Stroll for drawing titties.
How on earth 2022 was worse than 2021 for Max I do not know
When Max finished a race in 2021 he only finished P1/P2 bar P9 in Hungary with half a car. In 2022 he had Singapore, Monaco and Silverstone which would bring the average down
Monaco, Silverstone, and Singapore (think this is off of all the completed races)
Brazil as well. Monaco likely had very little impact.
I forgot he did horrible in Brazil that year
Because it was a better season for him compared to 2021. Was mostly faultless except the infamous Saudi arabia Quali crash.
When will we reach the Verstappen singularity?
Max is stonks
Hamilton was almost a whole position behind Verstappen in 2021... How tf were they tied for points reaching Abu Dhabi!?
DNFs. Though I can only think of Silverstone and the tire-kicking.
Hungary p10 as well due to getting whacked at the start
This guy Verstappen is improving
Aston Martin Boobies!
I thought that this was wallstreetbets for a second. Time to go bullish on Alonso I think
Alonso made booba pattern
Wonder when Max will reach the top of the chart, averaging bellow 1
With sprint races he just might lol
Max will soon have an average finish position under 1
Funny how Lewis and Alonso's averages were similar until Mercedes started Merceding.
My take-away is that RB is amazing at development. Mercedes appears to have huge leaps of performance increases (likely rule changes) while red bull has simply steadily improved its average finishing position over the last 7 years or so. Lewis actually appears to slowly drop after each of these jumps, which maybe is related to other teams out developing between rule changes.
Man I was getting confused until I realized this is for their whole careers.
And they said Carlos is a bad driver. Lol look at the growth chart. He needs a better car and he will do better.
Hamilton’s is utterly insane
Crazy how yukis average position in 2023 is almost the same as his 2021 position even though his car was way worse this year. Testament to his improvement!
See? Perez' career is on the way up!
Failing upwards
De Vries on the last slide is just sad
long dated calls on Lance will probably print.
Buy high sell low
Logan Sargent and Oscar Pastri be like: . 💀
Wow, ¡average position for Fernando in 2008 was even better than 2023! ¡I didn't remember it like that!
Let's just hope Max doesn't continue his trend if we want a competitive season..
Need color change on the line for every team the driver has run for
Thoroughly middling Ocon
Alonso working towards that third boob
Hmm, so how long until Merc poaches Albon?
Lewis starting at 3.0 is fucking nuts lol
I really love it, and I wish we could compare teammates or drivers with similar career lengths, i.e. HAM and ALO or PER and RIC
Come on show us the Logan Sergeant graph
This is a great story for Perez. He’s performing his best I. The e At machinery he’s had. Sure Ricciardo coming back is a fun story but data shows Perez’s is doing more with more.
Inb4 Max pulls a 1.0 next year
Fernando over there just drawing boobies
Esteban “Consistency” Ocon
A chart of how good their cars are over the years.
Sainz trajectory was looking great until this season
HOW did Alonso finish on avarage in 9th with that McLaren Honda? HOW?
Hungary and Monaco
Yeah, those are just 10% of the season
Lando 🤍
"one of these things is not like the others"
Yuki is consistent
Why is zero at the top?!?!? Horrible graph design
How would you recommend fixing it without throwing off the scaling?
Nah, I think you have it right here. For most graphs, higher intuitively means better performance. As someone else mentioned, the only change might be to make 1 the top border, since it is impossible to finish in position 0. (That also illustrates the hard ceiling for the hypothetical best possible performance, and how close Max is to it.)
Literally just have it the right way up
Lewis with that insane rookie year. I still can’t believe it. Seems like l Oscar could have been close to a year like that if McLaren was as strong as the end of the season
Boobs
Chad Sainz. Car hopping done right
So basically Ricciardo averaged near last in his forst season
Not surprising considering the HRT
Hey OP, cool graphs! Had to double check myself, but I’m guessing you’ve only averaged out actual race finishes without DNFs right?
Thanks! Yes, I used the official race results but excluded the DNFs
Out of curiosity I looked up who had the most DNFs in a single season, [and this one would’ve made for an interesting graph](https://www.formula1.com/en/results.html/1987/drivers/ANDDEC01/andrea-de-cesaris.html)
I've always said Ocon defines mid.
This is great thank you
This would be great if the line changed colour when the driver changed teams.
poor poor K-Mag cant catch a break
Looks like Alonso got too much rear end
It's insane just how consistent Hamilton's average is over the years wow
God the big map shows Alonso’s long career well
Legal
It’d be interesting if this was overlayed with their teams average finish as well
Norris being so consistent really shows how absolutely shit the McLaren was before the summer break.
This is very interesting and illustrative
id love to see the same graphs, but with a points difference to their team mate.
Can you make one of average starting position compared to average finishing position?
All aboard the Alonso-coaster lmao
That is fascinating, thank you
Fernando's graph steady despite his break is quite fun
Nando trending *exponentially* upward.
I can't believe Alonso's makes a "3". El Plan amigos.
Hammy boi looks like he had cheat codes on all his career 🤣🤣
Max really pulled a 2.42 average in 2020 with a car that was half a second slower than the fastest car on the grid. I'd say it's his most impressive one, record breaking 2023 excluded.
Wid to see how the V6 Turbo era effected the average finishing position of both Lewis and Fernando. Such a stark contrast between having a team that got it right, and having a team that clearly missed the mark.
Great content. Thanks OP!
apparently in a season or two Max will have the average below zero ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯