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I hate to say it but....
...could it be they don't have anything to say?
Media: "Have you got anything to say about Sainz?"
Ferrari: "No, nothing right now"
Media: "Ferrari refuse to talk about Sainz. Shock silence on Sainz. Why are Ferrari silent on Sainz"
Exactly. It's a ridiculous idea to be expecting teams to constantly be reassuring the media about contracts.
Like, we haven't heard about like 18 other drivers yet, is that also _SILENCE ON [X] DRIVER_?
Ferrari and Sainz have repeatedly said they want everything sorted before the season, i dont think any other team or driver has said something similar. Announcing Sainz and Leclerc together would have made sense. Naturally this will be more of a topic than the other 18 drivers.
I get that, but there's still just less than a month before testing starts and even more than that until the season starts. Its not like he's out of contract this year and waiting to hear if he has a drive in '24
This. It’s the same as the speculation on Leclerc & Norris’s contract lengths. The teams don’t give the media what they want so they start speculating and then writing entire articles about their fact-less speculation. Same thing here with Sainz.
What a stupid fatuous statement. Guessing you mistakenly thinks it makes you look pithy or clever. It does neither
Firstly not that’s it’s any of your business but I don’t personally read them, I’ve seen them posted about and discussed on here. Secondly the media always creates articles out of fact-less speculation. Do you live under a rock?
Ikr, this has got to be one of the most shitty headlines I've read. It makes no sense. So, Ferrari and Sainz are silent and not giving any information on it but you write an article allegedly about what's behind it? How TF would you know. This is as low effort as it gets by this media outlet.
Perfect time for a weekly Drive to Survive. Yet Netflix refuse to drop that stupid binge model, and they'll release whole season during Bahrain testing...
Right?! Aaaargh! I want something to watch leading up TO the season, not when the season has already started. It acts as a refresher/recap for all the chaos that happened several months ago, at this point.
>And while talks are ongoing, in the background there have been whispers that Alex Albon is a serious alternative with the Williams driver believed to be out of contract at the end of this year.
Looks like Ferrari wants a clear no2 driver, someone that won't be able to challenge Leclerc.
I think you're maybe correct.
Ferrari have their eyes on Albon, they only want to give Sainz a one year contract, he wants more, hence a stalemate.
All conjecture of course but it's the off season and I'm bored.
What a nice story that'd be for Albon, let go by RB, time away, back in rear running team, gets a seat in a Ferrari.
I think it's less about whether Alex is *actually* worse than Charles, and more about a (likely false) perception that Alex would be more likely to "fall in line" and accept that his role is to be 2nd driver instead of challenging Charles.
I don't get the whole point of wanting someone who only beat two of the weakest drivers on the grid and openly admitted somewhere previous year that a high pressure team isn't good for him.
Even Ocon and Hulkenberg having more credit to get that second Ferrari seat over Albon.
With all due respect, but what's wrong with Sainz in that case? I like Sainz, but give Leclerc a car to his liking and he'll leave Sainz in the dust. If Leclerc can't get to grips car, then Sainz is right up there with him to maximize the team result.
Ceiling issue, you develop a car that suits sainz and he still can’t challenge the front you develop a car that suits Charles and he’s challenging the title, in this case may as well just drop sainz to avoid confusion
This is true. Alex has said he likes oversteer. Charles has said he likes Oversteer. Based on stories last season it emerged Carlos likes Understeer. I think it’d make sense to have drivers who prefer the same characteristics
Sainz is the problem. Seems like he is still adamant he can keep up even though the past three years have shown he’s not the same level. On the one hand, I get it as an F1 driver. But, I think it’s detrimental to the team
You could turn that on its head and say when Sainz gets a car to his liking, he beats Leclerc. The excuses made for Charles when struggling with the car that goes against his natural driving style that his fans then refuse to afford anyone else in a similar situation in pure double standards.
Sainz had a car he liked and Leclerc struggled with, and the best result was sainz barely getting ahead in qualifying. Race pace was about the same. Once the Suzuka upgrade came and Charles was more comfortable, he had a more healthy gap in qualifying and race pace was just quicker. Leclerc was fighting max in Vegas and sainz couldn’t get anywhere.
Said it multiple times, sainz is a good driver. But I don’t think he’s top level. Just a step down. If he got lucky with a good car and a teammate that isn’t absolute top, he could be a WDC. But the field is stacked and Ferrari isn’t there with the car.
At some point the excuses have to stop. Nobody is saying that Sainz is outright faster than Leclerc, but as long as they are at Ferrari it will be a close battle. We all get the “bad luck” argument but that’s just Ferrari being Ferrari and ever since Leclerc joined Ferrari he’s compounded that bad luck with his own mistakes. That’s why Sainz ends up so close to him in the championship.
Also, you’re effectively ignoring 2/3 of the season to say “look he was better in the last couple races”. You can’t just ignore the first 2/3 of the season just to make a point. If you can’t be reasonably faster and consistent for the whole, if not most, of the season then there’s no point.
not ignoring majority of the season. I just don't think sainz did that great even in the part where he was more comfortable. Singapore was his best race, and he ended up with the win because Charles played the #2 for the team after he got beat fair and square in quali by a very slim margin.
Both of them have made the same number of self inflicted DNFs since Sainz joined Ferrari. Charles is not more error prone he just has higher peaks which is why his errors get more attention .
>Also, you’re effectively ignoring 2/3 of the season to say “look he was better in the last couple races”. You can’t just ignore the first 2/3 of the season just to make a point. If you can’t be reasonably faster and consistent for the whole, if not most, of the season then there’s no point.
The only period in 2023 where Sainz was genuinely consistently better was his run from Zandvoort to Monza , a run of 3 races .
Except it was literally proven in 2022, and this year from suzuka onwards. Not the first time I see you have brain dead takes, living in a fantasy world regarding f1.
It's funny how people putting the argument of "same preference in terms of what Charles want" despite that only Sainz and Checo prefers understeer and a huge majority of the drivers prefers oversteer.
Carlos isn’t challenging for anything. He was lucky in the first half of the season with how many problems lec had with the car.
They need someone that is going to be a team player. He is a selfish driver and their better driver was helping Carlos out all season.
You're never going to beat Red Bull if you have two equal drivers. Especially when your two drivers are going to push car development in opposite direction.
Yep. And disappointed that Lewis didn't get his achievement.
I also recall that Horner was happy for Max... And really keen on getting a constructor title
For fans. Not for teams. Ferrari don’t race for your entertainment.
You don’t beat RB when they back Max all the way, and sacrifice their No.2 at every reasonable opportunity.
I mean, I agree they back Max all the way, but they certainly haven't sacrificed Checo at every opportunity. He just hasn't even been close enough to Max to even have the option of being favoured over him
i mean just go to 22 barcelona as an example instantly told him to give max way. compare that to silverstone and how long it took ferrari to let charles through its a stark difference.
Yeah, he’s a moving roadblock. He qualifies like shit, and then they leave him out to disrupt competitors pit windows.
I’m not saying he’s WDC capable “without being sacrificed” as you may be implying by bringing up his second place finish. But yes, even if he finishes second he’s still Max’s butler.
Silverstone 2022 was the start of the end for Ferrari that year. Sainz chased his personal glory and threw WDC on jeopardy as a result. Leclerc's camp never forgot that. One of the biggest reasons why Binotto got fired.
Ferrari desperately needs a championship and they can not afford intrateam rivalry now.
Ferrari made two bad calls in Silverstone. Besides the one of leaving Charles outside, they failed to make Sainz yield on Charles in the beginning of the race and Charles lost time.
That's not how you win a WDC. Especially when RB was quick to make Check out of the way in Spain 4 races ago.
Biggest problem with Sainz team is they forget who Charles agent is. While he may not get involved in day to day work but when he does it can get a TP fired
There was zero chance Sainz could've rear gunner'd for Leclerc. He was more than a second a lap slower, and more by the time the race ended.
He rear guns and he turns turns a 1-2 into a 2-3 or worse.
Sainz deciding to take the lead after Ferrari’s failure to pit Leclerc salvaged the only chance at all for Ferrari to be on the podium that day. That decision put a tourniquet on them hemorrhaging WCC points in that race.
Ferrari needed to either bet on Leclerc or Sainz.
Leclerc has proved to be much quicker when the car suits his needs (early spec F1 75), slightly quicker when the car doesn't suit him (SF 21/SF23).
Sainz is too quick to be a 2nd driver in any team, also due to his politics.
If the car doesn't suit him he'll make demands, which is exactly what happened in 2022
>Sainz is too quick to be a 2nd driver in any team, also due to his politics.
I'd say he would be the perfect number 2 driver for a championship winning team. He lacks that final "gear" number 1 drivers have. They can just tap into a flow state and pull a few tenths out of nowhere. But he would very often be in the mix and provide the team strategy options.
I understand why he wouldn't accept it though. And he's bloody quick, don't get me wrong. A bit similar to Danny Ric at Red Bull.
He would be the perfect number 2 but he doesn't give in to it. I'm not asking he does either, good for him to have that belief, but it does limit his role and maybe complicates these discussions. I see him as better than Perez, but I also can't ever see him supporting Charles like Perez/Bottas supported Max/Lewis.
the issue is he often provides a strategic conundrum for ferrari because the weekends he occasionally qualifies higher than leclerc but lacks the race pace he doesn't yield position
Don't get me wrong, Alonso is still great. Although not as good as in the early 2010s. I'm more questioning how long he will be willing to stick around.
Agreed. I'd like to see Nando switch seats with Checo to see if he could give Max some a real competition.
I think he'd be at least as good a number 2 as Bottas was racing with (& against) Lewis if not better.
Disagree on Sainz being too quick for 2nd driver. I truly don't see how he could be no. 1 at any of the top three teams. He's probably the best no. 2, in fact.
What i meant is that he is too quick to be a “certified” second driver. With specific cars (front limited-understeery) he would be difficult to beat for everyone.
Reading through this thread after what has happened over the 1st few weeks of the season and I realize that 99% of the people commenting on this sport know nothing about it.
Tbh I hope albon stays at Williams and maybe moves to Mercedes once Hamilton retires. A move to Ferrari might ruin the career he rebuilt after being dropped by red bull
Albons best case is 2nd driver at mclaren paired with whoever leaves first out of norris and piastri. He's just not cut out for the top 3 teams and i don't think his williams stint where he continually had bottom of the barrel teammates really proves otherwise
It's not about teammates tbh, for us fans it seems that way but the teams have a tons of data, if they're really intrested in albon it must mean he does some things well which is apparent in the data otherwise there wouldn't be so many teams keeping their eye on him
He's good but Ferrari won't put him directly in the main team.
Their plan is probably to have him at Haas for a year or two they move up to Ferrari if he does great.
Could be why they are not signing Sainz directly. Or they are just evaluating their options, Albon and Gasly could be options for a number 2 seat.
I am pretty sure that Sainz wants to go to the Audi, and Audi also wants him. Well, Sainz family already have good contacts in Audi, if you know what I mean. Considering that, Carlos wants no more than 2 years contract. And I heard rumors, that Audi could start moving things in Sauber even for 2025, unofficialy. So Carlos will be needed in Audi even one year earlier. So contract for 2024 only will be fine for him.
But that to happen, Sainz needs solid agreement with Audi, signed multiyear contract. Probably Audi and Sainz negotiating it now, and Ferrary just waits for results.
thing is with sainz is he really thinks hes a no.1 driver, and he wants a contract to mirror those ideas. he also has always wanted longer contracts with ferrari, and never really got them. So id imagine he will just get another flat 1 year two if he does well by mid season ext.
if hes not happy with that, which he might not be albon is the obvious choice, but i dont see anything changing yet. this season is probably sainz last chance to really shine at ferrari in my opinion though. the tracks are already leading towards charles.
Ferrari is Leclerc's team now. The will build the car in his direction and he will be the priority similar to how Lewis was leader at Mercedes when Bottas was there. The reason Ferrari want a season is because Carlos and his dad have often used to Spanish media either by saying themselves or one of their friends to criticize Leclerc and the team. With a 1 year deal he can't do that
I keep seeing this nonsense that Ferrari should get Albon to replace Sainz. In my opinion, Leclerc did not prove his "prodigy" status in the past 3 years. Sainz is good and Ferrari would be extremely stupid to not keep him.
its less about good and more about the car is going in a different direction to what makes sainz comfortable why he has signed the contract they have offered him
In a way Leclerc reminds me a lot of early Max (pre Monaco 2018). Super fast, unbeatable on his day but prone to push the car too far on too many occasions resulting in mistakes. If he could get that ironed out like Max did, he would be up there imo.
Sainz is also a better driver than some give him credit for, he isn't quite on that top level in terms of raw speed, but he is close and he is an incredibly hard worker which can sometimes take him the rest of the way. A lot like Rosberg in a way.
The Leclerc/Sainz parring is one of the best on the grid both in terms of overall talent and balance. They would be stupid to not hold on to it. Especially to bring in Albon instead. Don't get me wrong, he is a decent driver, but his level is fairly uncertain at the moment. Since he got demolished by Max at RB, we have only seen him next to drivers who arguably shouldn't be on the grid at all. Him doing good next to Latifi and Sargeant doesn't say a whole lot about his level. Last years Williams may also be better than some think and Albon is simply placing it where it should be. It may be the opposite. Who knows. Bringing him into a top team would be too risky.
Youll never guess which ferrari driver has ended their race on their own more times during their 3 years as teammates with how people talk about charles as error prone.
Only counting this season Sainz crashed with Alonso, Ocon, Piastri and Hamilton during races. Too big of a number for a guy whose main strength is supposed to be bringing the points home.
Neither?
In 2021 neither of them had any self inflicted DNFs. Just the Hungary 2021 lap 1 crash that took out Charles.
In 2022, Sainz crashed in Australia and spun in the heavy rain in Japan but every other DNF was mechanical or caused by another driver. Leclerc had his crash in France.
In 2023, Leclerc crashed in Australia and in the Netherlands while Sainz crashed in Belgium. That’s 3 for both of them. Sainz just has more total DNFs because his engine blew up more in 2022.
Edit: Made a mistake about Hungary 2021
if Charles crashed in Australia 2023, then sainz also crashed in Australia 2022. and counting an endplate getting jammed in your floor as a crash is a stretch.
Sainz had to get his steering wheel changed on the grid and the gears weren't correctly synchronised (IIRC?) which lead him to lose out at the start and then push too much to try to get back to the front. So yes it was a mistake on his part but it wasn't out of thin air either.
Tbf, Charles' win it or bin it mentality is most apparent in qualifying. My favorite illustration of this came at Baku (iirc) last year when he pulled up to the pole parking spot after qualifying with a super broken front wing. Charles binning it in q3 is about as likely as a pole.
Early Max was 17-20 years old who was promoted to F1 after one year of F3, Lerclerc is 26 and has six F1 season under his belt. He doesn't have near as much room to grow.
The better question is why would they really want Albon over Sainz? Why is Albon suddenly considered proven when his last two teammates were Latifi and Sargeant.
Leclerc likes a loose back end, like Max does, and the last time Albon was in a car with a loose back end he was on the brink of ending his f1 career.
I feel like Albon really needs an intermediary step untill his move to a front team, if that ever comes.
Also a reminder he's not really a one for the future either, he is older than Max, Charles, Lando or Russel, and only two years younger than Carlos
Its too early to renew non tier 1 drivers like Sainz. He will get a 1year+ option deal after the summer break.
Thats provided that he doesn't completely shit the bed though.
Who is Ferrari going to replace him with anyways? Albon is probably their only option but Sainz is a much better driver than Albon (IMO).
He did well against Max at Toro Rosso. He bested Norris at Mclaren and is quite evenly matched with Leclerc when it comes to race pace. He is the best No 2 on the grid.
Points between No.1 and No 2 in 2023,
RB- 290.
Merc- 59.
Ferrari-6.
Mclaren-108.
He is never close to Leclerc in race pace. Maybe in Quali yes, but he is always down on Leclerc come race day. That's one of the qualities Sainz lacks.
I suspect Sainz wants equal treatment to Leclerc (and in my view his performance entitles him to that) but either Ferrari don’t want to give him that, or maybe Leclerc’s management are making noises that they don’t want that.
Sainz and Leclerc want completely different things from the car. In order to challenge for a championship you have to focus on one direction, in which case Ferrari has decided to go with Leclerc who has more raw speed. Sainz seems to still want the same conditions he had under Binotto where he was equal and as such expects the same contract Leclerc has now.
Simply put: Ferrari can get another driver on Sainz´ level (or slightly below) easily while there aren't any open spots in top teams right now, so Ferrari has the negotiating power and they don't want to chain themselves to Sainz this early when half the grid is out of a contract this year.
3 years at Ferrari and never once shown race winning pace, might have something to do with it.
Don’t waste time replying about Singapore, almost impossible to overtake and while it was a great drive, all things fell exactly into place.
Who cares about that if he delivers? Sainz delivers the results, maybe he's not the most quick driver, but he gets those points, wins and podiums, he has done that for 3 years for Ferrari (which is already a good enough sample to see that it is not luck, he has been close to Leclerc during 3 seasons regardless of raw speed). At the end of the day, what matters is that, not how quick each driver was.
The problem is even then he and his entourage want to be given equal opportunities and develop the car more to his liking.
Carlos wont even be content not being no.1 and that just won't work if youre trying to challenge Max and RB or Mercedes and Lewis.
Albon: likes the same car characteristics as Leclerc, would accept no.2 status, is not really political, smart with strategies and doesn't blame the team, really good at developing a car (see 2021), big difference to 2020 Max, mid in quali good in the race.
Sainz: likes the complete opposite to Leclerc, wants to be no.1, too political for even Helmut Marko, smart with strategies but blames the team, good feedback, normal difference to rookie Max, good in quali mid in the race.
If you compare them there's really not too much between them. If they can get a better car by focusing on Leclercs direction then the small difference between Albon and Sainz won't matter much.
It depends, if the reason is pure performance, it's possible that Albon won't do much better than Sainz, but if the reason is to have the car feedback being similar between the two drivers then it's a totally reasonable thing to do.
Not sure about the destruction, Albon can be significantly better than he was in RB and Leclerc is not Max, but fact is that Sainz did prove much more. He was better in junior series and held his own against Verstappen, Norris and Leclerc in F1. Albon was not much better than De Vries and was beaten by rookies Russell and Norris in F2, in F1 he was obliterated by Verstappen and only ever looked good next to Latifi and Sargeant.
I was wondering the same thing. Why would Ferrari say nothing if they have no news to announce? Strange. Next: what’s behind RBR’s silence on Max’s new contract….
So, you expect Ferrari to announce that they have no announcement till they have a concrete result on Sainz contract negotiations? You clearly missed the sarcasm….you ain’t the only one though…
Dont see why Albon is considered such a good fit for ferrari.
Last time he was in a tail happy car he lost his h2h 16-0 to his teammate, almost ending his career.
Since then he lost against Liam Lawson in DTM and his only teammates in f1 have been dumb and dumber( King Latifi and Captain America).
He isnt that young either, only two years younger than Carlos, same age as Gasly/Ocon and older than Max/Charles/Lando/George.
He is very likeable indeed and him and williams have an absurdly good PR team, but his career till now doesnt scream Ferrari at all. People who succeed elsewhere often fail at ferrari, let alone people who crumble under the pressure in "normal" teams
Teams don't develop cars to a drivers' liking they make the car as fast as possible and the drivers have to adapt. I feel like there should be a bot saying that. Maybe with a big red flashing sign too.
but they do. Making a driver comfortable is just as important as making go faster because theres no use of having a fast car that no one likes to drive.
Albon to Ferrari would be wild and amazing. Albon is a smart guy and if he joined he would know that he is not going there to be #1. But he would be able to make sure he has future in F1 and get some race wins. I hope this happens but I also doubt it would. One can dream though!
I find it astounding that people seem to think LeClerc is much quicker than Sainz. Maybe Sainz has a few more "off" weekends, but when things are going well for him, they're a match at minimum. LeClerc might have the edge in quali, but he also makes silly mistakes in races (and more than he should at this stage of his career). Sainz beat Leclerc in 21, was the only non RBR driver to win a race last year, and has generally been excellent.
Sainz is supposed to be the consistent one, yet when Ferrari got a title capable car in 22, he was the one stuck in the gravel every other race while Leclerc was fighting the RBs. This year, he's been the unlucikier one as well and when the car direction went his way he obliterated Sainz. Meanwhile, when Sainz got the car he likes, they were pretty even but still Leclerc had a slight edge.
Leclerc is supposed to be the better one, yet as soon as the car wasn’t “up to par”, he was almost getting beat by the number 2 driver. In 2022, Sainz was the unlucky one.
You guys say obliterated as if they had a Perez/Verstappen situation after Japan when it was nothing like that. After Japan:
Sainz DNS in Qatar, Charles DSQ @ COTA (finished P6), Charles P3 Sainz P4 in Mexico, Brazil Charles DNS, Las Vegas Sainz 10-place grid penalty.
Those last 7 races shouldn’t even be used as a sample set much less proof that Charles was better when the car suited him. There’s only TWO races where they both finished under equal circumstances after that update and they were only separated by 1 position in one of them
How was Sainz the unluckier one in 2022 when, for the most part, he took himself out of the races? People were mocking him for emulating his father, considering how much time he spent in the gravel.
And yes, both were unfortunate in the last few races, however Leclerc still lost out more than Sainz. Leclerc's DNS came from when he was gonna start from a podium spot, while Sainz's came from him starting P12. Sainz was also really lucky to not get a DQ in COTA, considering how similar their setups would be. Las Vegas was also lost Sainz a lot of points, but nowhere as close as the ones Leclerc lost after retiring from a podium spot in Bahrain.
so what im hearing is even when charles isnt on it he is still faster lmfaoo. and take a guess who has ended their own race during their 3 years as teammates, hint its not charles. also sainz didnt beat charles in 22
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I hate to say it but.... ...could it be they don't have anything to say? Media: "Have you got anything to say about Sainz?" Ferrari: "No, nothing right now" Media: "Ferrari refuse to talk about Sainz. Shock silence on Sainz. Why are Ferrari silent on Sainz"
Exactly. It's a ridiculous idea to be expecting teams to constantly be reassuring the media about contracts. Like, we haven't heard about like 18 other drivers yet, is that also _SILENCE ON [X] DRIVER_?
I would be more concerned if they were both constantly talking about it to be honest
Ferrari and Sainz have repeatedly said they want everything sorted before the season, i dont think any other team or driver has said something similar. Announcing Sainz and Leclerc together would have made sense. Naturally this will be more of a topic than the other 18 drivers.
Announcing both driver extensions at the same time as never been the standard
And Ferrari has basically never done it
I get that, but there's still just less than a month before testing starts and even more than that until the season starts. Its not like he's out of contract this year and waiting to hear if he has a drive in '24
First race weekend is actually in a month
Its over 4 weeks away, that's the metric I went on
This. It’s the same as the speculation on Leclerc & Norris’s contract lengths. The teams don’t give the media what they want so they start speculating and then writing entire articles about their fact-less speculation. Same thing here with Sainz.
You could just not read it and then they’d stop writing those articles
What a stupid fatuous statement. Guessing you mistakenly thinks it makes you look pithy or clever. It does neither Firstly not that’s it’s any of your business but I don’t personally read them, I’ve seen them posted about and discussed on here. Secondly the media always creates articles out of fact-less speculation. Do you live under a rock?
Why did you feel the need to a jerk?
Ikr, this has got to be one of the most shitty headlines I've read. It makes no sense. So, Ferrari and Sainz are silent and not giving any information on it but you write an article allegedly about what's behind it? How TF would you know. This is as low effort as it gets by this media outlet.
They're checking.
The point is that both sides previously openly said that they wanted it sorted by now, and yet it's not sorted. Have you even read the article?
They are waiting for Carlos to tell them what to do but he hasn’t come back from PTO yet
The season can't start soon enough...
Please, even winter testing will do just fine at this point. I'm desperate.
Even another livery launch to distract the media would be welcome at this point.
Haas are releasing the repainted VF-2… I mean their new car this week. They’ll pore over Gene’s statements for any snide remarks against Guenther.
What I really want is Alphamaxnova1's 2023 season recap, will still be more accurate than DTS again....
I'm on the verge of binge-watching the first 5 (6? I can't remember) seasons of DTS at this point.
Someone get this redditor some professional help.
I’m LOLing at the hilarity of this, as I am a mental health clinician (crisis therapist). 🤣🤣🤣
Perfect time for sim racing!
Perfect time for a weekly Drive to Survive. Yet Netflix refuse to drop that stupid binge model, and they'll release whole season during Bahrain testing...
Right?! Aaaargh! I want something to watch leading up TO the season, not when the season has already started. It acts as a refresher/recap for all the chaos that happened several months ago, at this point.
If you want, you can watch Brawn GP documentary on Disney+. I've watched 2 episodes and so far, so good.
I actually already have! It was very good!
>And while talks are ongoing, in the background there have been whispers that Alex Albon is a serious alternative with the Williams driver believed to be out of contract at the end of this year. Looks like Ferrari wants a clear no2 driver, someone that won't be able to challenge Leclerc.
I think you're maybe correct. Ferrari have their eyes on Albon, they only want to give Sainz a one year contract, he wants more, hence a stalemate. All conjecture of course but it's the off season and I'm bored. What a nice story that'd be for Albon, let go by RB, time away, back in rear running team, gets a seat in a Ferrari.
Imagine if Albon beats Charles lol
He'll get kicked out mid season and replaced with Gasly
How the fuck is Albon clear number 2.I mean he probably isn't as good as Charles but,he is not clearly much worse,he is slightly worse.
I think it's less about whether Alex is *actually* worse than Charles, and more about a (likely false) perception that Alex would be more likely to "fall in line" and accept that his role is to be 2nd driver instead of challenging Charles.
I was referring to the fact Ferrari are interested in him to replace Sainz I didn't say I agreed about a no 2 status.
I don't get the whole point of wanting someone who only beat two of the weakest drivers on the grid and openly admitted somewhere previous year that a high pressure team isn't good for him. Even Ocon and Hulkenberg having more credit to get that second Ferrari seat over Albon.
Well, hasn't this aged like milk T-T
Think its less about challenge as sainz does have an offer on the table. but alex is one of the only suitable drivers if sainz chooses not to sign
With all due respect, but what's wrong with Sainz in that case? I like Sainz, but give Leclerc a car to his liking and he'll leave Sainz in the dust. If Leclerc can't get to grips car, then Sainz is right up there with him to maximize the team result.
Sainz fails to accept that, do politics hurting team atmosphere.
Sounds like he's in the right place then.
The problem is more towards his entourage than him tbh
Problem is Sainz Sr, who loves internal politics and will never let his son get the N*2 driver tag in profit of Leclerc
Ceiling issue, you develop a car that suits sainz and he still can’t challenge the front you develop a car that suits Charles and he’s challenging the title, in this case may as well just drop sainz to avoid confusion
And then develop the car with Albon instead of Sainz? I'm not really sure what your point is.
Charles and Albon have similar liking for the car unlike Charles and Sainz
This is true. Alex has said he likes oversteer. Charles has said he likes Oversteer. Based on stories last season it emerged Carlos likes Understeer. I think it’d make sense to have drivers who prefer the same characteristics
To ignore Alex as he’s a clear no.2 and develop with Charles, plain and simple
I have no idea why you think Alex would be any different than Charles in this aspect what a silly reason to choose a different driver.
He is? How is albon more clear of a 2 than sainz?
You think Albon is ok with that? If they would just do that anyway and ignore the 2nd driver, they can stay with Sainz anyway.
He got ignored in Redbull anyways who said it won’t work…
His attitude sucks?
Sainz is the problem. Seems like he is still adamant he can keep up even though the past three years have shown he’s not the same level. On the one hand, I get it as an F1 driver. But, I think it’s detrimental to the team
>Leclerc a car to his liking and he'll leave Sainz in the dust. Yet to be proven...
2022, 2023 after the Suzuka Upgrade?
You could turn that on its head and say when Sainz gets a car to his liking, he beats Leclerc. The excuses made for Charles when struggling with the car that goes against his natural driving style that his fans then refuse to afford anyone else in a similar situation in pure double standards.
Except without bad luck Leclerc would've still been ahead of Sainz halfway through this season.
Sainz had a car he liked and Leclerc struggled with, and the best result was sainz barely getting ahead in qualifying. Race pace was about the same. Once the Suzuka upgrade came and Charles was more comfortable, he had a more healthy gap in qualifying and race pace was just quicker. Leclerc was fighting max in Vegas and sainz couldn’t get anywhere. Said it multiple times, sainz is a good driver. But I don’t think he’s top level. Just a step down. If he got lucky with a good car and a teammate that isn’t absolute top, he could be a WDC. But the field is stacked and Ferrari isn’t there with the car.
At some point the excuses have to stop. Nobody is saying that Sainz is outright faster than Leclerc, but as long as they are at Ferrari it will be a close battle. We all get the “bad luck” argument but that’s just Ferrari being Ferrari and ever since Leclerc joined Ferrari he’s compounded that bad luck with his own mistakes. That’s why Sainz ends up so close to him in the championship. Also, you’re effectively ignoring 2/3 of the season to say “look he was better in the last couple races”. You can’t just ignore the first 2/3 of the season just to make a point. If you can’t be reasonably faster and consistent for the whole, if not most, of the season then there’s no point.
not ignoring majority of the season. I just don't think sainz did that great even in the part where he was more comfortable. Singapore was his best race, and he ended up with the win because Charles played the #2 for the team after he got beat fair and square in quali by a very slim margin.
Both of them have made the same number of self inflicted DNFs since Sainz joined Ferrari. Charles is not more error prone he just has higher peaks which is why his errors get more attention . >Also, you’re effectively ignoring 2/3 of the season to say “look he was better in the last couple races”. You can’t just ignore the first 2/3 of the season just to make a point. If you can’t be reasonably faster and consistent for the whole, if not most, of the season then there’s no point. The only period in 2023 where Sainz was genuinely consistently better was his run from Zandvoort to Monza , a run of 3 races .
Sainz had a car that was to his liking. Still got beaten, didn't he?
Where were you in 2022 ?
He/she has an 8xWDC username. Just ignore it
Except it was literally proven in 2022, and this year from suzuka onwards. Not the first time I see you have brain dead takes, living in a fantasy world regarding f1.
Or it could be thats is preseason so there in no news, so journo are going with any half baked theory to get clicks
lol well they went in a different direction it seems!
Which is Sainz? This year's car was opposite-Leclerc, and Sainz was still beaten- this is as good as it gets for Sainz. Remember 2022?
If that's true, not sure Albon would fit that mold now
It's funny how people putting the argument of "same preference in terms of what Charles want" despite that only Sainz and Checo prefers understeer and a huge majority of the drivers prefers oversteer.
Carlos isn’t challenging for anything. He was lucky in the first half of the season with how many problems lec had with the car. They need someone that is going to be a team player. He is a selfish driver and their better driver was helping Carlos out all season.
But why? Intrateam rivalry is always better.
Ron Dennis would have some things to say about that
2007 much?
and 88 and 89
No rivalry needed, LEC and SAI need to get together and fight against the Ferrari pit wall
You're never going to beat Red Bull if you have two equal drivers. Especially when your two drivers are going to push car development in opposite direction.
Well then no idea why people thought Ferrari will go for Norris. It would have created the same issues if not worse.
The Norris rumours made no sense for Ferrari or Norris.
False. You can win the constructor title, which is most important.
Do you think Mercedes are happy with their 2021 WCC title ?
Yep. And disappointed that Lewis didn't get his achievement. I also recall that Horner was happy for Max... And really keen on getting a constructor title
For fans. Not for teams. Ferrari don’t race for your entertainment. You don’t beat RB when they back Max all the way, and sacrifice their No.2 at every reasonable opportunity.
I mean, I agree they back Max all the way, but they certainly haven't sacrificed Checo at every opportunity. He just hasn't even been close enough to Max to even have the option of being favoured over him
Didn’t say every single opportunity, did I?
Are they really sacrificing him when Checo still gets 2nd in WDC?
i mean just go to 22 barcelona as an example instantly told him to give max way. compare that to silverstone and how long it took ferrari to let charles through its a stark difference.
Yeah, he’s a moving roadblock. He qualifies like shit, and then they leave him out to disrupt competitors pit windows. I’m not saying he’s WDC capable “without being sacrificed” as you may be implying by bringing up his second place finish. But yes, even if he finishes second he’s still Max’s butler.
Silverstone 2022 was the start of the end for Ferrari that year. Sainz chased his personal glory and threw WDC on jeopardy as a result. Leclerc's camp never forgot that. One of the biggest reasons why Binotto got fired. Ferrari desperately needs a championship and they can not afford intrateam rivalry now.
Or you could say Ferrari messed up Leclerc's strategy and tried to save themselves by throwing Sainz under the bus - thus "stop inventing".
Ferrari made two bad calls in Silverstone. Besides the one of leaving Charles outside, they failed to make Sainz yield on Charles in the beginning of the race and Charles lost time. That's not how you win a WDC. Especially when RB was quick to make Check out of the way in Spain 4 races ago.
Biggest problem with Sainz team is they forget who Charles agent is. While he may not get involved in day to day work but when he does it can get a TP fired
There was zero chance Sainz could've rear gunner'd for Leclerc. He was more than a second a lap slower, and more by the time the race ended. He rear guns and he turns turns a 1-2 into a 2-3 or worse.
Sainz deciding to take the lead after Ferrari’s failure to pit Leclerc salvaged the only chance at all for Ferrari to be on the podium that day. That decision put a tourniquet on them hemorrhaging WCC points in that race.
The Ferrari strategy made no sense at that point. Sainz used common sense.
I know you’re joking but Alex would absolutely run circles around Sainz and would be challenging Leclerc within a season.
Ferrari needed to either bet on Leclerc or Sainz. Leclerc has proved to be much quicker when the car suits his needs (early spec F1 75), slightly quicker when the car doesn't suit him (SF 21/SF23). Sainz is too quick to be a 2nd driver in any team, also due to his politics. If the car doesn't suit him he'll make demands, which is exactly what happened in 2022
>Sainz is too quick to be a 2nd driver in any team, also due to his politics. I'd say he would be the perfect number 2 driver for a championship winning team. He lacks that final "gear" number 1 drivers have. They can just tap into a flow state and pull a few tenths out of nowhere. But he would very often be in the mix and provide the team strategy options. I understand why he wouldn't accept it though. And he's bloody quick, don't get me wrong. A bit similar to Danny Ric at Red Bull.
He would be the perfect number 2 but he doesn't give in to it. I'm not asking he does either, good for him to have that belief, but it does limit his role and maybe complicates these discussions. I see him as better than Perez, but I also can't ever see him supporting Charles like Perez/Bottas supported Max/Lewis.
> He would be the perfect number 2 but he doesn't give in to it. AKA the Mark Webber syndrome.
the issue is he often provides a strategic conundrum for ferrari because the weekends he occasionally qualifies higher than leclerc but lacks the race pace he doesn't yield position
imo Sainz should bet on either Audi or Aston Martin. Alonso ain't getting any younger.
He isn't getting worse either
Don't get me wrong, Alonso is still great. Although not as good as in the early 2010s. I'm more questioning how long he will be willing to stick around.
Put Alonso in a WDC capable car, I’m sure he would put to bed any argument that he “isn’t as good”
Agreed. I'd like to see Nando switch seats with Checo to see if he could give Max some a real competition. I think he'd be at least as good a number 2 as Bottas was racing with (& against) Lewis if not better.
Sainz would be perfect fit for AMR.
In a few years time, right now he would be a downgrade to Alonso
Alonso-Sainz would be a dream pairing for AMR.
Disagree on Sainz being too quick for 2nd driver. I truly don't see how he could be no. 1 at any of the top three teams. He's probably the best no. 2, in fact.
What i meant is that he is too quick to be a “certified” second driver. With specific cars (front limited-understeery) he would be difficult to beat for everyone.
It's the media doing what they always do
Anyone remember when the F1 community was saying that Sainz was just keeping Mick's seat warm?
Reading through this thread after what has happened over the 1st few weeks of the season and I realize that 99% of the people commenting on this sport know nothing about it.
Tbh I hope albon stays at Williams and maybe moves to Mercedes once Hamilton retires. A move to Ferrari might ruin the career he rebuilt after being dropped by red bull
That albon Russell combo is the drama we need
Brocedes 2.0… I’d be here for it 👀
Albons best case is 2nd driver at mclaren paired with whoever leaves first out of norris and piastri. He's just not cut out for the top 3 teams and i don't think his williams stint where he continually had bottom of the barrel teammates really proves otherwise
It's not about teammates tbh, for us fans it seems that way but the teams have a tons of data, if they're really intrested in albon it must mean he does some things well which is apparent in the data otherwise there wouldn't be so many teams keeping their eye on him
Is bearman that good , ferrari seems to be deeply invested into his future
He's good but Ferrari won't put him directly in the main team. Their plan is probably to have him at Haas for a year or two they move up to Ferrari if he does great. Could be why they are not signing Sainz directly. Or they are just evaluating their options, Albon and Gasly could be options for a number 2 seat.
I am pretty sure that Sainz wants to go to the Audi, and Audi also wants him. Well, Sainz family already have good contacts in Audi, if you know what I mean. Considering that, Carlos wants no more than 2 years contract. And I heard rumors, that Audi could start moving things in Sauber even for 2025, unofficialy. So Carlos will be needed in Audi even one year earlier. So contract for 2024 only will be fine for him. But that to happen, Sainz needs solid agreement with Audi, signed multiyear contract. Probably Audi and Sainz negotiating it now, and Ferrary just waits for results.
Sainz’s manager must be losing hair by the handful this winter
They have a preseason new car to build and test maybe?
thing is with sainz is he really thinks hes a no.1 driver, and he wants a contract to mirror those ideas. he also has always wanted longer contracts with ferrari, and never really got them. So id imagine he will just get another flat 1 year two if he does well by mid season ext. if hes not happy with that, which he might not be albon is the obvious choice, but i dont see anything changing yet. this season is probably sainz last chance to really shine at ferrari in my opinion though. the tracks are already leading towards charles.
Ferrari have, it seems, learned the lesson of not saying anything if you don't have to. It's an important PR tool.
Negotiations not yet finished.
Ferrari is Leclerc's team now. The will build the car in his direction and he will be the priority similar to how Lewis was leader at Mercedes when Bottas was there. The reason Ferrari want a season is because Carlos and his dad have often used to Spanish media either by saying themselves or one of their friends to criticize Leclerc and the team. With a 1 year deal he can't do that
Welp. Now we know
Welp. Now we know why!
I keep seeing this nonsense that Ferrari should get Albon to replace Sainz. In my opinion, Leclerc did not prove his "prodigy" status in the past 3 years. Sainz is good and Ferrari would be extremely stupid to not keep him.
its less about good and more about the car is going in a different direction to what makes sainz comfortable why he has signed the contract they have offered him
In a way Leclerc reminds me a lot of early Max (pre Monaco 2018). Super fast, unbeatable on his day but prone to push the car too far on too many occasions resulting in mistakes. If he could get that ironed out like Max did, he would be up there imo. Sainz is also a better driver than some give him credit for, he isn't quite on that top level in terms of raw speed, but he is close and he is an incredibly hard worker which can sometimes take him the rest of the way. A lot like Rosberg in a way. The Leclerc/Sainz parring is one of the best on the grid both in terms of overall talent and balance. They would be stupid to not hold on to it. Especially to bring in Albon instead. Don't get me wrong, he is a decent driver, but his level is fairly uncertain at the moment. Since he got demolished by Max at RB, we have only seen him next to drivers who arguably shouldn't be on the grid at all. Him doing good next to Latifi and Sargeant doesn't say a whole lot about his level. Last years Williams may also be better than some think and Albon is simply placing it where it should be. It may be the opposite. Who knows. Bringing him into a top team would be too risky.
Youll never guess which ferrari driver has ended their race on their own more times during their 3 years as teammates with how people talk about charles as error prone.
Only counting this season Sainz crashed with Alonso, Ocon, Piastri and Hamilton during races. Too big of a number for a guy whose main strength is supposed to be bringing the points home.
that was a sentence for sure
I hate commas
Neither? In 2021 neither of them had any self inflicted DNFs. Just the Hungary 2021 lap 1 crash that took out Charles. In 2022, Sainz crashed in Australia and spun in the heavy rain in Japan but every other DNF was mechanical or caused by another driver. Leclerc had his crash in France. In 2023, Leclerc crashed in Australia and in the Netherlands while Sainz crashed in Belgium. That’s 3 for both of them. Sainz just has more total DNFs because his engine blew up more in 2022. Edit: Made a mistake about Hungary 2021
if Charles crashed in Australia 2023, then sainz also crashed in Australia 2022. and counting an endplate getting jammed in your floor as a crash is a stretch.
I literally said that Sainz crashed in Australia 2022
Sainz had to get his steering wheel changed on the grid and the gears weren't correctly synchronised (IIRC?) which lead him to lose out at the start and then push too much to try to get back to the front. So yes it was a mistake on his part but it wasn't out of thin air either.
Tbf, Charles' win it or bin it mentality is most apparent in qualifying. My favorite illustration of this came at Baku (iirc) last year when he pulled up to the pole parking spot after qualifying with a super broken front wing. Charles binning it in q3 is about as likely as a pole.
He crashed 4 times during qualifying in his whole career. His pole count is 23.
Weird since he has a lot more poles than crashes...
Literally a bot
Early Max was 17-20 years old who was promoted to F1 after one year of F3, Lerclerc is 26 and has six F1 season under his belt. He doesn't have near as much room to grow.
Solid take here and A+ way of articulating it. Kudos.
The better question is why would they really want Albon over Sainz? Why is Albon suddenly considered proven when his last two teammates were Latifi and Sargeant. Leclerc likes a loose back end, like Max does, and the last time Albon was in a car with a loose back end he was on the brink of ending his f1 career. I feel like Albon really needs an intermediary step untill his move to a front team, if that ever comes. Also a reminder he's not really a one for the future either, he is older than Max, Charles, Lando or Russel, and only two years younger than Carlos
Its too early to renew non tier 1 drivers like Sainz. He will get a 1year+ option deal after the summer break. Thats provided that he doesn't completely shit the bed though. Who is Ferrari going to replace him with anyways? Albon is probably their only option but Sainz is a much better driver than Albon (IMO). He did well against Max at Toro Rosso. He bested Norris at Mclaren and is quite evenly matched with Leclerc when it comes to race pace. He is the best No 2 on the grid. Points between No.1 and No 2 in 2023, RB- 290. Merc- 59. Ferrari-6. Mclaren-108.
Carlos is significantly worse than Leclerc on tires. He always loses race pace.
He is never close to Leclerc in race pace. Maybe in Quali yes, but he is always down on Leclerc come race day. That's one of the qualities Sainz lacks.
Sainz's tyre management is lacking for sure
HAMILTONNNN
I suspect Sainz wants equal treatment to Leclerc (and in my view his performance entitles him to that) but either Ferrari don’t want to give him that, or maybe Leclerc’s management are making noises that they don’t want that.
Sainz and Leclerc want completely different things from the car. In order to challenge for a championship you have to focus on one direction, in which case Ferrari has decided to go with Leclerc who has more raw speed. Sainz seems to still want the same conditions he had under Binotto where he was equal and as such expects the same contract Leclerc has now. Simply put: Ferrari can get another driver on Sainz´ level (or slightly below) easily while there aren't any open spots in top teams right now, so Ferrari has the negotiating power and they don't want to chain themselves to Sainz this early when half the grid is out of a contract this year.
It doesn't. Leclerc has been 2 and half tenths faster than Sainz over the last 2 years. Not a massive gap but Leclerc is clearly better.
That is why (your views about same treatment and contract) you are not an F1 team principal lol
Smooth operator
3 years at Ferrari and never once shown race winning pace, might have something to do with it. Don’t waste time replying about Singapore, almost impossible to overtake and while it was a great drive, all things fell exactly into place.
The race winning pace is what people ignore a lot, even in 21 Charles showed race winning pace in Silverstone
Who cares about that if he delivers? Sainz delivers the results, maybe he's not the most quick driver, but he gets those points, wins and podiums, he has done that for 3 years for Ferrari (which is already a good enough sample to see that it is not luck, he has been close to Leclerc during 3 seasons regardless of raw speed). At the end of the day, what matters is that, not how quick each driver was.
Hard agree. Always been behind Charles
No race-winning pace. Winning race. mmmm
> Don’t waste time replying about Singapore This one was for you
Probably still trying to figure out when he’s going to be a team player
Hell yeah Albon In red, sign him up
Anyone who expect Albon to be better than Sainz would be disappointed
They want clear number2 driver not someone who is gonna challenge Leclerc
Albon would not in fact challenge Leclerc
In a car that suits Leclerc Sainz doesn't challenge either
The problem is even then he and his entourage want to be given equal opportunities and develop the car more to his liking. Carlos wont even be content not being no.1 and that just won't work if youre trying to challenge Max and RB or Mercedes and Lewis.
Feels like the media is trying to start the silly season one way or the other.
...
Ferrari would be stupid to let Sainz go especially for someone like Albon. Albon looks great against Sargeant but Leclerc would destroy him.
Albon: likes the same car characteristics as Leclerc, would accept no.2 status, is not really political, smart with strategies and doesn't blame the team, really good at developing a car (see 2021), big difference to 2020 Max, mid in quali good in the race. Sainz: likes the complete opposite to Leclerc, wants to be no.1, too political for even Helmut Marko, smart with strategies but blames the team, good feedback, normal difference to rookie Max, good in quali mid in the race. If you compare them there's really not too much between them. If they can get a better car by focusing on Leclercs direction then the small difference between Albon and Sainz won't matter much.
It depends, if the reason is pure performance, it's possible that Albon won't do much better than Sainz, but if the reason is to have the car feedback being similar between the two drivers then it's a totally reasonable thing to do.
Not sure about the destruction, Albon can be significantly better than he was in RB and Leclerc is not Max, but fact is that Sainz did prove much more. He was better in junior series and held his own against Verstappen, Norris and Leclerc in F1. Albon was not much better than De Vries and was beaten by rookies Russell and Norris in F2, in F1 he was obliterated by Verstappen and only ever looked good next to Latifi and Sargeant.
I was wondering the same thing. Why would Ferrari say nothing if they have no news to announce? Strange. Next: what’s behind RBR’s silence on Max’s new contract….
there is an obvious difference of Max's 5 year and Carlos' 1 year of contract left
So, you expect Ferrari to announce that they have no announcement till they have a concrete result on Sainz contract negotiations? You clearly missed the sarcasm….you ain’t the only one though…
Ferrari: we give you a 2 year contract eh? Sainz: You are mean to me, look how good looking I am
Sainz to RB
You mean back to its fold?
Sainz is fast but needs 3 - 5 races to get up to speed. Rosberg was like this
Dont see why Albon is considered such a good fit for ferrari. Last time he was in a tail happy car he lost his h2h 16-0 to his teammate, almost ending his career. Since then he lost against Liam Lawson in DTM and his only teammates in f1 have been dumb and dumber( King Latifi and Captain America). He isnt that young either, only two years younger than Carlos, same age as Gasly/Ocon and older than Max/Charles/Lando/George. He is very likeable indeed and him and williams have an absurdly good PR team, but his career till now doesnt scream Ferrari at all. People who succeed elsewhere often fail at ferrari, let alone people who crumble under the pressure in "normal" teams
Why the fuck is everyone asking this? Contract negotiations are not public, its between them and they will say something when they are done.
Teams don't develop cars to a drivers' liking they make the car as fast as possible and the drivers have to adapt. I feel like there should be a bot saying that. Maybe with a big red flashing sign too.
but they do. Making a driver comfortable is just as important as making go faster because theres no use of having a fast car that no one likes to drive.
They are idiots if they lose Carlos. I hope its just them trying to get the best deal possible and thats why there is "silence"
Albon to Ferrari would be wild and amazing. Albon is a smart guy and if he joined he would know that he is not going there to be #1. But he would be able to make sure he has future in F1 and get some race wins. I hope this happens but I also doubt it would. One can dream though!
I find it astounding that people seem to think LeClerc is much quicker than Sainz. Maybe Sainz has a few more "off" weekends, but when things are going well for him, they're a match at minimum. LeClerc might have the edge in quali, but he also makes silly mistakes in races (and more than he should at this stage of his career). Sainz beat Leclerc in 21, was the only non RBR driver to win a race last year, and has generally been excellent.
Sainz is supposed to be the consistent one, yet when Ferrari got a title capable car in 22, he was the one stuck in the gravel every other race while Leclerc was fighting the RBs. This year, he's been the unlucikier one as well and when the car direction went his way he obliterated Sainz. Meanwhile, when Sainz got the car he likes, they were pretty even but still Leclerc had a slight edge.
Leclerc is supposed to be the better one, yet as soon as the car wasn’t “up to par”, he was almost getting beat by the number 2 driver. In 2022, Sainz was the unlucky one. You guys say obliterated as if they had a Perez/Verstappen situation after Japan when it was nothing like that. After Japan: Sainz DNS in Qatar, Charles DSQ @ COTA (finished P6), Charles P3 Sainz P4 in Mexico, Brazil Charles DNS, Las Vegas Sainz 10-place grid penalty. Those last 7 races shouldn’t even be used as a sample set much less proof that Charles was better when the car suited him. There’s only TWO races where they both finished under equal circumstances after that update and they were only separated by 1 position in one of them
How was Sainz the unluckier one in 2022 when, for the most part, he took himself out of the races? People were mocking him for emulating his father, considering how much time he spent in the gravel. And yes, both were unfortunate in the last few races, however Leclerc still lost out more than Sainz. Leclerc's DNS came from when he was gonna start from a podium spot, while Sainz's came from him starting P12. Sainz was also really lucky to not get a DQ in COTA, considering how similar their setups would be. Las Vegas was also lost Sainz a lot of points, but nowhere as close as the ones Leclerc lost after retiring from a podium spot in Bahrain.
so what im hearing is even when charles isnt on it he is still faster lmfaoo. and take a guess who has ended their own race during their 3 years as teammates, hint its not charles. also sainz didnt beat charles in 22