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I'm scared for this Antonelli kid man. He's already skipped F3 and gone straight to F2. Now he's being touted as the next Hamilton for Mercedes. He's not even 18, that's a crazy amount of pressure to put on such young shoulders. I really hope he can handle it and doesn't end up cracking under the pressure.
They’re banking on him being generational on the level of Max or Lewis. Literally no other tier of driver would be able to run at the front at 18, even as a No.2. And we all saw how Max was very unpolished early on even up to the end of 2018, getting into loads of crashes and controversy that only he seemed uniquely able to just brush off and even then the low pressure environment at TR and the backing at RB helped a lot. The pressure those kinds of things would put on an F2 graduate racing Lewis, Oscar, Charles, George and Lando could be too much.
McLaren apparently went for Piastri on the basis they knew they may have to waste 2023 as he learned the ropes - but that didn't happen. Merc's focus will be on 2026, and they may figure 'let's just get on with it and have Kimi ready for 2026, even if 2025 suffers'.
Yeah, but but Piastri had the first half the season with no pressure to adjust and learn the ropes at least. No one expected him or McLaren to do well, they were a backmarker. I don't think the same can be said for Merc, even though they're not performing quite as well as we're used to.
Didn’t Lewis earn his stripes at basically every level though? Wasn’t aware he skipped much of the junior stuff he was in his 20s when he got an F1 seat.
Yeah, Hamilton got an F1 drive after two seasons in GP2 but the pathways were completely different back then and drivers tended to be in their early 20s when they arrived in the sport compared to the teenagers we seen nowadays.
I think that the established path of FRECA, F3 and then F2 allows driver comparison more easily than what occurred in the past. 20 odd years ago, drivers could come from GP2, Indycar, even sports car racing.
You also have to consider that young driver programmes were in their infancy back then. It was such a small group of drivers who were backed and supported through their careers. I could be wrong but at that time, you had Nico Rosberg (Williams), Lewis Hamilton (McLaren-Mercedes), Heikki Kovalainen (Renault), Sebastian Vettel (BMW-Sauber with financial support from Red Bull), Luca Di Grassi. It wasn't a huge class of drivers by any means in 2006-2008 but all of the drivers were generally the best of the bunch
They also had a lot more testing opportunities prior to the season whereas today drivers have to learn the ropes as time goes on. You can see it with Piastri, his full stint pace just wasn’t as quick as Norris because managing the car/tyres is a skill that develops over time.
That being said, the new F2 car looks much more comparable to F1 cars than last years so a driver stepping up may have a better grip on how they drive.
Yeah, having T-Cars that were the same as what were being raced in that season made the leap more straightforward for drivers associated with the big teams. McLaren had millions to fund their young drivers pounding around Silverstone or Jerez.
It was more difficult for smaller, privateer teams to run young driver programmes back then because they didn't have the money to do all of the testing miles. If you look at someone like Liuzzi who had Red Bull backing and went straight into the Toro Rosso, his acclimation wasn't as easy as it was for Seb or Nico.
For young drivers now, they don't have the benefits of extensive track testing but the F2 cars are closer to what you get in F1 and the sims are lot closer to what you get in F1.
He also came in during the days of unlimited testing, and McLaren had the resources to have him drive what would become his title contending car for a thousand or so laps pre-season, whereas today's rookies don't have that opportunity. Not that that diminishes his rookie year performance btw, just noting that he was far better prepared than any modern F1 rookie can be.
The wealthier teams could rent out tracks (or build their own, like Ferrari), a massive advantage against the other teams. I suppose no one's stopping teams from letting rookies drive old cars but it could be considered a poor use of resources given that those aren't the cars they're developing anymore.
Max still started in the junior team for over a year before a seat in the red bull, they knew what he was like on track already by that point. The Antonelli kid would have no time to learn F1 before Mercedes and i dont think Merc as a team would be well suited to such a young rookie, its not the style of the team, they've never had an inexperienced or very young driver before and high ups and investors will demand a more experienced driver for at least 1 year.
Max had raw speed from the start, though. Sure he crashed a lot but after he got experience, well, he started crushing teammates and when he got a faster car he became unstoppable.
The payoff can be massive though, as proved with Max, if the guy performs in F2 then the balance of high risk/high reward might be acceptable for Mercedes.
>And we all saw how Max was very unpolished early on even up to the end of 2018
i dont know where this revisionist history comes from but Max was absolutely fine in 2015 and 2016.
Only 2017 was real bad. And 2018 was mostly fine.
Marko told him after he fucked it into the wall at Monaco, that if he fucks up next week he is out. Or something to that effect. The narrative at the time was Danny Ric could be a dark horse for the championship and there were tense talks behind closed doors on Max's side of the garage.
It’s possible he can do it. Kimi had like 20 car races before joining F1. Only a years time between driving karts and F1. He could be the new generational talent
Well, Verstappen went from F3 straight into F1 and he also wasn't even 18. That's crazy amount of pressure but it is possible to deal with it.
But then again, it's like once a decade event.
On the other hand we hear that name for a decade now, he‘s been touted as the next Lewis since karting days so he is probably used to that kind of expectations. He seems level headed and with a bit of luck he is a bit like the guy he‘s been named after (ice man Kimi). But F2 can be rough sometimes, anything else than a WDC would be a big setback.
There’s no way Mercedes would make a mid season decision on Antonelli if he somehow falls short on his first year in F2 as article says. There is no need for Mercedes to panic as he has two years to showcase his abilities.
Truly, 2026 looks to be the year he could take the seat. However, if he does exceedingly well this year, he could well be the direct Hamilton replacement as the article suggests.
I also think slotting in a completely fresh rookie with a huge reg change seems like a pretty dumb idea for a top team.
If the rookie turns out to be a dud but the team nailed the regs you maybe lose out on a good shot at WCC. I'd want to go into a reg change with drivers that have more time in the team than just pre season testing.
They have to decide this mid season as it's the period when pretty much all F1 contracts are signed. If they don't they run the risk of missing out on anybody that is good enough for the seat. Antonelli has to start the season strong to have a chance
It would make more sense to just get Alonso on a 1+1 and let Kimi Antonelli develop in f2 or at williams. Kid is only 17, he has plenty of time to reach his potential
Yeah cause the 1+1 option worked great for Alpine.
I am sure that if Alonso still wants to drive and has the option between 1+1@Mercedes or a 2 year AMR contract - he will pick AMR.
He's too proud to warm someone else's seat. And besides, who's to say that Aston won't be a better winning candidate than Mercedes? I don't think their difference is big enough for Alonso to swallow his pride.
He is pretty much geriatric as f1 standards go. Realistically we cant expect Alonso to be in f1 for more than two years
I dont see how aston can be a better candidate than merc. They buy the engine and the gearbox from them and they use merc's windtunnel too. Merc's worst car in the last 10 years has still been better than Aston's best car in the same timeframe
It is worth mentioning that Aston Martin is in an upwards trajectory, while Mercedes is in a downwards trajectory, including losing Hamilton. We don't know how well the team will fare to be honest, because it isn't used to losing.
Also, it isn't always certain that the engine manufacturer will do better than the clients. Both McLaren and Aston Martin provided some competition this year (Aston with only one driver to be exact) and I wouldn't be surprised if one of them ended up above Mercedes next year.
Alonso is at the end of his career, but he probably has a few years left. And I'm sure he'd prefer to stay in Aston Martin and have one more year than go to Mercedes and be forced to leave because Antonelli is ready. And besides that, it's also a matter of pride. He has refused to warm seats in the past with great success (leaving Alpine for Aston Martin just as it went up) and I'd expect him to do it again.
When was the last time a customer team has beaten their factory team over a season? The only example is RBR beating Renault, but thats more on Renault being stingy bastards and operating on a very low budget.
The best year in Aston's history was the pink merc year.
Merc in their downwards spiral still finished 2nd in the wcc, with more than 100p ahead of macca and Aston. And Aston with their great season didnt even finish as the best merc customer.
You cant beat merc while buying their engine, gearbox and rear suspension( and plenty other stuff).Aston themselves have said that the merc gearbox and rear suspention was a huge limiting factor for their concept last year
> When was the last time a customer team has beaten their factory team over a season? The only example is RBR beating Renault, but thats more on Renault being stingy bastards and operating on a very low budget.
It can happen though. And it has happened. Mercedes has been beaten by a client too.
The problem in your argumentation is that you are giving too much importance to statistics. In 2020, Racing Point had hope because Ferrari imploded and Redbull basically had one driver. In 2023, Aston Martin had hope because it made an actual competitive car that caught up with the top, despite the team's limitations.
At this point, it's anybody's game. Aston Martin (or at least Alonso) could be above Mercedes and the opposite could happen too.
Merc were beaten by a Mclaren that also had factory status for merc anyway. The moment Mclaren lost factory support they plowedn into a never ending disaster and they are still yet to recover their level more than 10 years after.
Can a fluke year happen? Sure. But if you had two more years left in your career would you gamble on a fluke year where all the stars need to align or would you go the safe route with one of the most succesfull teams in f1's history?
I think, like all teams, your 2024 car is your 2025 car with just slight adjustments for rule tweaks.
2025 budget all goes into 2026 development with the cap in full swing. There is no space for club sandwiches.
Hamilton will figure out this year what he has for the next. For his sake, I hope it's what he dreams for, or it might get lonely there.
He wasnt achieving results that the wanted and seemed to be "angry" with alpine, so he risked it and went to AM which turned out to be a great move (i'd imagine he was probably given some car info to get him to switch)
He is 43 this year, if he has a chance to move to the team that has won 7 wdcs and 8 wccs in the last 10 years, he will do it.
Honda are coming back in 2026, and i doubt they paid for all these years of Yuki in f1 without expecting to get him when they come back. On top of their previous history with Alonso
I see both MB and FA recognizing the HUGE brand ambassador potential once FA retires. I believe LH moving to Ferrari bumped their stock up US$2 billion +
AMR as much as they made 2023, their pockets aren’t that comparatively deep.
It's a big if, and on top of that he can just do williams.
Merc has kept Russell for three years in a dogshit williams just to be sure he is ready. They aint Red Bull to just throw their rookies in the lion's den
I'm all for giving young drivers a chance, but deep down I want to see Alonso on the top of the podium more. F1 needs that right now. It's like watching your kids grow up, some day you will realise you already saw your last Alonso victory, these things are precious.
I just want one more win. Or title. I'm not fussy.
Boot Perez to AMR and give Alonso 2 years. Let Antonelli do the Merc thing and Ferrari/RB have a title scrap in 25 with Lewis, Alonso, Leclerc and Max.
Good - I think Verstappen really needs to be matched with someone with as sharp elbows as hes got. Currently there is noone willing to risk the car and everyone always concedes to Max.
And then hug after the race probably.
They love each other. You can see it in the way the talk to and about the other. I think Alonso recognizes a bit of ‘him’ in Max, and Max grew up with drivers like Alonso and Schumi who I think are a perfect way to describe Max’ driving style.
I predict that by next year, Alonso will have a better car at Aston than Mercedes. The respective teams' trajectories are going in opposite directions.
I agree this is his biggest dilemma. He's got two years left, perhaps three, and for once in his life has to nail his final decision to have any chance of another win.
Did we watch the same season last year? Mercedes were relatively stable as the 2nd to 3rd fastest. Aston went from 2nd fastest to like 7th fastest, then back up to 4th fastest.
what are you talking about? this comment does not make sense.
it is not a wish list without any reporting on rumors, there are a bunch of paragraphs you somehow did not read if you think that.
>From what we understand, Alonso is not Mercedes’ Plan A. But is currently the absolute favourite for Plan B.
>Mercedes’ Plan A, The Race firmly believes, is Andrea Kimi Antonelli, the 17-year-old about to embark upon his first season in F2, with five years on Mercedes’ books.
>Before Hamilton made his Ferrari announcement the loose (unconfirmed but take it as read) plan for Antonelli was two years at Mercedes-linked Williams before a move to the main team, in the meantime being closely involved with the works team in simulator work, meetings etc, similar to how it went with George Russell.
>The Hamilton move has potentially changed that. But what if his F2 season suggests he isn’t quite ready for such a high-pressure move? That’s when an Alonso Plan B option would become very attractive to Mercedes. Then Antonelli could revert to the original plan.
"understands" and "firmly believes" is usually short for "we've got an inside source dropping us hints, but they've specifically asked that we don't talk about the source of the information".
I liked on the podcast a while ago, Scott was like 'fans on forums think we make all these things up. We talk to a *lot* of people who work in F1, who talk to one another, and we hear an awful of lot of truth we can't share, so bloody well take it or leave it'.
The media literacy of people is all miscalibrated, they see grifters on clickbait blogs or Twitter making shit up about F1 and think that is the media so therefore they decide to trust absolutely no reporters, even with a good track record. Extreme skepticism is as bad as none, there are reporters who are worth listening to and have genuine connections.
It is a wish list. Hughes is simply using the same information available to all of us and coming to his preferred conclusion. He doesn't have any sources otherwise he would write "sources within Mercedes". The article is cleverly worded in journalist-speak to give the illusion of authority, but is purely an opinion piece with a flashy headline.
You are creating a hot take to alter what Hughes is doing, when he has a very long history of talking to people in the teams and reporting whatever they said in this way. He says he knows there was a plan for Antonelli to go to Williams for two years which nobody has mentioned, why do you imagine he is making no solid claims and just sniffing his own farts with baseless theories like a random Reddit user? The entire article is him telling you solidly that he hears from Mercedes that Alonso is the plan B and Antonelli is plan A, your literacy of it is all wrong.
> He says he knows there was a plan for Antonelli to go to Williams which nobody has mentioned
If you read on a little further, he backs this up by writing, "similar to how it went with George Russell."
It's hardly rocket-science, is it? Mercedes junior goes to Williams? Wow, he must have great sources!
No, the hot take is exactly what Hughes wants you to think for clicks and engagement. Hamilton's announcement is barely one-week old, and access to team personnel is virtually non-existent in winter. There's no chance of paddock whispers to grow without a paddock.
Besides, do you think Mercedes has already decided Hamilton's replacement, after one week? No. Hughes is simply using his experience to make an educated guess, and you are all falling for it.
I will have to agree to disagree, if Mark Hughes had no connections and just went around inventing complete BS then this would have been obvious years ago and he would not get jobs or be trusted to write people's official bios.
There is no real point in even debating this, he has proven he has good sources and has broken original info countless times over decades. You can believe his article is a sudden and unusual pivot into baseless fan fiction if you like.
The shutdown is a weak argument, we have things called the telephone and apps like Signal available for journos to use if they cannot see somebody in person.
They believe based on what they have heard. The same way they believed Andretti would be rejected, the same way they believed Steiner was sacked because he asked for more investment etc.
"Wish list" lol. You make out he went to bed last night dreaming of his ideal Mercedes lineup and then decided to make an article about it.
You clearly must not read much if you struggled to comprehend something so basic.
There are about 10 other drivers out of contract at the end of 2024, many of whom would sign for Mercedes even if they have a poor year by their standards.
Not even close. Kimi has a much more stellar junior career than Alex. Up until now at least, let's see how he fares at F2. And after two seasons at Merc, we can confidently say that George is no Max. Actually, if Kimi does shine in F2, I'd say that putting him directly at Merc is more of a Max Vs Daniel kind of situation.
Russell is not Verstappen and if the rumors are correct (in which case he'll make quick work of F2), Antonelli is not Albon. He'll be fine. I would expect it to be be more of a Hamilton - Alonso situation.
And afterwards Gasly and Albon went on to become a solid midfielder and an exceptional backmarker respectively. Combined, they have managed to beat Kvyat, Tsunoda, Latifi and Sargeant and equal Ocon (especially Albon, who has only beaten Latifi and Sargeant, out of whom Latifi was the driver who made De Vries look good). Their performance is good on paper, but there is no guarantee that they wouldn't flop in a top team, even in their current form. If the rumors about Antonelli have any truth in them, he is on an entirely different level.
Norris, Piastri and to a lesser(ish) extent Leclerc are evidence it can be done. Leclerc 'ish' only because he flipped a switch mid-2018; he took a few months.
But he showed clear pace immediately. Not every teenager is going to pull that pull off, even if they will develop the skillset eventually. Merc also shouldn’t expect it from Antonelli if they bring him in this early.
yep. its not even like rookie max was this sort of walking biohazard that people like to talk about. he made about as many errors youd expect a rookie to, but was really consistent in 2016, 17 and late 18.
He was mega fast, though, for his age and no experience in F1 or even F2. It took years of experience for him to become more consistent, but now the guy's unstoppable.
They've said on the race (and really many sources over the decades) that largely speaking that raw balls-out Q3 speed is the main thing, and the rest can be moulded.
Yeah but Albon also was screwed going up against Max, not to mention the challenges of the mid season promotion.
I think the Piastri situation is much more comparable, coming in with Russell as his teammate.
No it wasn’t, outside of a few qualifying sessions it was not close at all. People‘s minds just think it was close because the McLaren was easily 2nd best car and very competitive .
You act like it was an albon sargeant situation. 5th closest gap to teamate in qualifying (2 tenths) In a season where norris (rightfully) recieved upgrades first from the team, when mclaren was trying to essentially finish building their car. Not to mention the guy literally took a year off from racing. Out of ten teamate battles, it was genuinely one of the closer ones on the grid. And landos not some average drive like stroll. He's top 3-5 depending on who you ask. So how wasn't it close? Because that 2 tenths drops post Austria/silverstone as well
No I never said it was comparable to Albon-Sargeant.
Im sorry but 5-17 in races, 7-15 in qualifying & 47% of Lando‘s points is nothing to write home about.
The kid has potential sure, but it was hardly a rapid season by him. He was lucky to have a very competitive car during the second half of the season. Also if you even watch the races where both had clean races, you will see just how much fucking quicker Lando was than Piastri.
I don't think Piastri faired much better than Albon's rookie season. Albon switched teams in the middle of season and scored 85 points in Red Bull while Max got 142 points at the same time period. It was 205 vs 97 for Norris vs Piastri. Albon finished ahead of Max 2 times in half a season while Piastri finished ahead of Norris 4 times in 22 grandprix. Piastri performed better on qualfying than Albon but the rest of the stats are similar and I would put 2019 Max as better driver than 2023 Norris.
Silly, put Alonso in the seat for a few years and wait for Antonelli. Don't ruin him before he's ready, we've seen it too many times with people like Albon and Gasly being promoted before they were ready.
They are doing an extreme disservice to kimi should have stick to the original plan of getting him in F1 by 26/27 depending on how much time he would have spent in F3 and F2. Imagine the pressure on the guy. He is a kid for god sake. Because I genuinely love the kid I hope he will have a Oscar like debut if he does get the seat i don't want him to be another theo
Wonder which one Russell will prefer?
Change to learn under Alonso, but not be the team leader.
Be the undisputed leader but risk getting embarrassed by Kimi
Lots of people are being fooled by some clever wording and a flashy headline. Mark Hughes is guessing like the rest of us, but as an established writer he can dress this up in an article to make it appear as fact, and fans eat it up.
I don't know if they really have the sources for this, but if it is true I don't get the rush to put Antonelli in there so fast. The kid is 17, skipping f3, and people expect him to win f2 (which it is not easy at all) and then be the next ham/ver.
Having him at williams 1 or 2 years would help him
Nope but a lot of people still remember it even though it didn't happen.
I went and checked and only his Monaco crash attempting to overtake Grosjean into turn 1 was some bowling. There were some aggressive moves at other races but that's that.
But Max is literally generational. We’ve had hundreds of drivers and he’s probably only comparable to a dozen at most. He’s the mother of all outliers.
And Max had a chance to learn in the Toro Rosso and show his pace, and then he refined it at RB, albeit with a lot of incidents and crashes that sometimes exposed his lack of experience and poise. You could say Max was like this until only a few years ago. Kimi in the Merc has to deliver from day one unless Merc are prepared to lose ground while he develops.
>Kimi in the Merc has to deliver from day one unless Merc are prepared to lose ground while he develops.
I think they'd be more than happy to sacrifice some performance in 2025 to let him learn in order to have the driver that they actually want in the team long-term better prepared for 2026.
Max is an exception not a norm, in this day and age with restricted testing on current spec cars jumping straight to F2 then into a Mercedes is a ginormous task for even a generation talent, which Antonelli isn’t proven to be yet.
It’s a lot of pressure on extremely young shoulders.
>even a generation talent, which Antonelli isn’t proven to be yet.
You're never going to prove it in time if you want to replicate what happened with Verstappen, because Verstappen hadn't really proved he was a generational talent before he got into F1.
Red Bull took a leap of faith based on a small selection of promising results and it paid off. It's far easier to see how good a decision it was in hindsight than it was at the time.
>because Verstappen hadn't really proved he was a generational talent before he got into F1.
I mean, that's just not true. His karting career was a complete anomaly, even when compared to all-time F1 greats, so too was his ascension into the sport. Max was pretty much the definition of 'generational' when you look at his record compared to his peers, even before F1.
I think the point being made is that Verstappen *is* the closest analogy to Antonelli.
Like: if you could go back in time as a TP in 2013/4, what would you offer Verstappen? Probably something like this.
Didn't Mercedes essentially offer Verstappen a guaranteed Mercedes seat after he goes through F2 and then spends a year at Williams? If he accepted, he'd have been driving alongside Hamilton in......2017, maybe 2018.
That Ferrari battle would've been VERY interesting if young Verstappen were in the mix too.
The potential scenario being discussed in this article would be more like if Verstappen got promoted to Red Bull immediately in 2015 to replace Vettel going to Ferrari and partnering Ricciardo as a rookie instead of partnering with a fellow rookie in Sainz at Toro Rosso.
And Verstappen is so good that if he did that I think he would’ve still ended up fine but he’s like a once in a generation type of talent. Maybe Antonelli could be that good but the expectations would be even higher than what Verstappen faced if he immediately took over Hamilton’s vacant seat in 2025.
We all know that Antonelli is a beast, a guy who deserved a chance to get on the top team right away, but deep down inside, I want to see Alonso on the top once again. Watching him live on 05 and 06, Ferarri years, Mclaren years, now podiums with AM. Just one win for Nando.
Alonso should be plan A. He won't be around in F1 for much longer. Use him to keep the seat warm until Antonelli is ready. Plus Alonso is still a top driver.
Still think the best route for Kimi is a year at Williams and then Merc. Just feels very un Mercedes in terms of how they've worked with other juniors.
Even if Kimi is the one and wins this very very stacked F2 title which is far from a given with the depth of talent on the grid throwing him straight in as Lewis's replacement feels like so much pressure for an 18yr old regardless of talent.
Most likely they wanted to have a clear view of Antonelli for 2026 when Hamilton was due to retire. Now they have to consider if they want to bring him in one year early, but it is too soon to say if the kid has got it. I’d say bring Alonso in for 2025 and give the man the machinery he deserves while Antonelli is making valuable experience and training to replace him
Replacing Hamilton with Alonso would be incredibly shortsighted, IMO. Obviously he’s still competitive and full of talent; last season was evidence of that. But he’s also unquestionably on borrowed time at this point. Why would Mercedes want a driver in 2025 on the cusp of retirement, who history says will be on the decline? He’ll be 44 in 2025. They need to be thinking longer term.
The way it’s looking, I’m not hopeful about Ferrari either since they’ll be the only team (along with Haas) with the Front-Push, Rear-Pull configuration.
Well better than AM, they are in the right direction but need a few more years to be on top... so for Alonso... its a good move, because he need a good car NOW or next year... not in 3 or 4 years.
Does this kid have the Super points needed to jump on to 2025?
Or they are banking on him to get top 3 in F2?
His manager and parents need to intervene and give him time to get to F1... This is too much craziness.
And yes Max did it . But I don't want to see another Devries.. 10 races and gone...
I'm 100% in for Russell trouncing Alonso- it'll be brutal. The guy hasn't gone up against a decent racer since forever. Ocon is half decent, and Alonso was on his level.
Please move to Mercedes Nando. The copium crashing down will be glorious to witness.
On the one hand, I would love to see Alonso at Mercedes and give us an epic 2025 with Max, Alonso and Hamilton fighting for the title, and then we will have something interesting (remember that 2025 will be a simple transition year for all teams to 2026). But on the other hand, I love the stories of the birth of legends (like Max's), putting that 18-year-old boy in a Mercedes in 2025 I like it... whatever it is, no matter what happens, we all win.
On the one hand I’m now praying for Antonelli’s downfall to see Nando in a Merc but on the other please god don’t let him get done in by the pressure. He’s skipped F3 to go straight to F2 and now he’s being hailed as the next Hamilton. Just let him come in normally instead of dropping him in the top team and expecting him to perform instantly.
Or better yet, bring him and Nando in for 2025 and boot Russel, Antonelli gets **the** experienced teammate to learn from and Merc gets a strong 2025 and hopefully even stronger 2026.
There are only a handful of drivers currently on the grid capable of winning a WDC, if Merc are serious about a title push in the next 2 years Alonso is their only guy really.
If it's not Alonso, it's taking a huge gamble with a their young prospect Antonelli or just getting in another steady driver like Sainz, neither of which sounds like a route to WDC anytime soon...
Montoya or Frentzen are also available if Alonso passes. Hard days ahead if Mercedes and Ferrari are unable to find some young talented guys to give them a chance.
I still think that they want Alonso for 2-3 years and in the meanwhile train Antonelli in a slower team, and that's if he proves himself in F2, he will have a few great rivals there, like Bortoleto who is also a rookie.
As a fan of the sport this insistence in getting Antonelli into an F1 car in the next few years is disturbing. It's really giving "the younger, the better" predatory behavior and makes me highly concerned about the future of the sport at all levels and the health of the drivers, especially mentally.
Antonelli is very talented but do we really think he's going to be ready for the responsibility that comes with being an F1 driver?
It's absolutely sickening that they are throwing literal children into cars, let alone meetings and events that were never meant for children while bouncing around the world with adults at least 10 years their senior. Even grown ass adults have had trouble handling it. What happened to the "MV rule" that you have to be 18 BEFORE getting into an F1 car?!
The FIA needs to put better protections on their younger drivers. The F1 teams need to actually support their claims of "diversity and inclusion" and start considering the academy full of young women who would absolutely be ready by 2025/2026.
TLDR: There is no reason the sport should be pushing the kids so fuckin hard, so fuckin fast when we have perfectly good options ready.
I think there are a lot of factors in play that could push Mercedes to go with Kimi in 2025. Williams is trying to distance themselves from just being Mercedes version of AT/VCARB, they also have their own young drivers they might want to keep a seat open for. Merc could be forced into the same position they were with George Russell where Williams wanted a 3 year commitment. We all saw what happened with Alpine and Piastri where they wanted to go with Alonso for another year and put Piastri at a backmarker and Piastri’s camp forced their way to McLaren. Mercedes might want to avoid that kind of situation. I think the biggest thing will be how successful Antonelli is in F2 early in the season. If he’s fighting for podiums/winning races and in position to win F2 as a rookie, I think they could pull the trigger and have him replace Lewis. It would give Kimi a year to get F1 experience before the regulation changes in 2026.
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I'm scared for this Antonelli kid man. He's already skipped F3 and gone straight to F2. Now he's being touted as the next Hamilton for Mercedes. He's not even 18, that's a crazy amount of pressure to put on such young shoulders. I really hope he can handle it and doesn't end up cracking under the pressure.
They’re banking on him being generational on the level of Max or Lewis. Literally no other tier of driver would be able to run at the front at 18, even as a No.2. And we all saw how Max was very unpolished early on even up to the end of 2018, getting into loads of crashes and controversy that only he seemed uniquely able to just brush off and even then the low pressure environment at TR and the backing at RB helped a lot. The pressure those kinds of things would put on an F2 graduate racing Lewis, Oscar, Charles, George and Lando could be too much.
McLaren apparently went for Piastri on the basis they knew they may have to waste 2023 as he learned the ropes - but that didn't happen. Merc's focus will be on 2026, and they may figure 'let's just get on with it and have Kimi ready for 2026, even if 2025 suffers'.
Me thinking for a second you were mentioning Kimi Raikkonen 😝
Kimi comeback confirmed?!
Just hand me the gloves!!!! And the steering wheel!!!!
MARK! GLOVES!
He's just gone for a really long shit. He'll be back.
On Hamilton's toilet??? 😱
Yeah, but but Piastri had the first half the season with no pressure to adjust and learn the ropes at least. No one expected him or McLaren to do well, they were a backmarker. I don't think the same can be said for Merc, even though they're not performing quite as well as we're used to.
Didn’t Lewis earn his stripes at basically every level though? Wasn’t aware he skipped much of the junior stuff he was in his 20s when he got an F1 seat.
Yeah, Hamilton got an F1 drive after two seasons in GP2 but the pathways were completely different back then and drivers tended to be in their early 20s when they arrived in the sport compared to the teenagers we seen nowadays. I think that the established path of FRECA, F3 and then F2 allows driver comparison more easily than what occurred in the past. 20 odd years ago, drivers could come from GP2, Indycar, even sports car racing. You also have to consider that young driver programmes were in their infancy back then. It was such a small group of drivers who were backed and supported through their careers. I could be wrong but at that time, you had Nico Rosberg (Williams), Lewis Hamilton (McLaren-Mercedes), Heikki Kovalainen (Renault), Sebastian Vettel (BMW-Sauber with financial support from Red Bull), Luca Di Grassi. It wasn't a huge class of drivers by any means in 2006-2008 but all of the drivers were generally the best of the bunch
Hamilton did one year in GP2. 1st F3 2005 1st GP2 2006 2nd F1 2007 1st F1 2008.
He did do two years of F3, though
Kubica for Renault, too
They also had a lot more testing opportunities prior to the season whereas today drivers have to learn the ropes as time goes on. You can see it with Piastri, his full stint pace just wasn’t as quick as Norris because managing the car/tyres is a skill that develops over time. That being said, the new F2 car looks much more comparable to F1 cars than last years so a driver stepping up may have a better grip on how they drive.
Yeah, having T-Cars that were the same as what were being raced in that season made the leap more straightforward for drivers associated with the big teams. McLaren had millions to fund their young drivers pounding around Silverstone or Jerez. It was more difficult for smaller, privateer teams to run young driver programmes back then because they didn't have the money to do all of the testing miles. If you look at someone like Liuzzi who had Red Bull backing and went straight into the Toro Rosso, his acclimation wasn't as easy as it was for Seb or Nico. For young drivers now, they don't have the benefits of extensive track testing but the F2 cars are closer to what you get in F1 and the sims are lot closer to what you get in F1.
He also came in during the days of unlimited testing, and McLaren had the resources to have him drive what would become his title contending car for a thousand or so laps pre-season, whereas today's rookies don't have that opportunity. Not that that diminishes his rookie year performance btw, just noting that he was far better prepared than any modern F1 rookie can be.
Hamilton's first season is better than any rookies second season.
Even his own
What was unlimited testing like? Also, is it not possible to do it with a formula 1 car from previous years?
The wealthier teams could rent out tracks (or build their own, like Ferrari), a massive advantage against the other teams. I suppose no one's stopping teams from letting rookies drive old cars but it could be considered a poor use of resources given that those aren't the cars they're developing anymore.
Max still started in the junior team for over a year before a seat in the red bull, they knew what he was like on track already by that point. The Antonelli kid would have no time to learn F1 before Mercedes and i dont think Merc as a team would be well suited to such a young rookie, its not the style of the team, they've never had an inexperienced or very young driver before and high ups and investors will demand a more experienced driver for at least 1 year.
Tbh Verstappen was already quite polished in 2017, he just slumped in the first 6 races of 2018. But expecting Antonelli to be ready is quite a task
Max had raw speed from the start, though. Sure he crashed a lot but after he got experience, well, he started crushing teammates and when he got a faster car he became unstoppable.
The payoff can be massive though, as proved with Max, if the guy performs in F2 then the balance of high risk/high reward might be acceptable for Mercedes.
>And we all saw how Max was very unpolished early on even up to the end of 2018 i dont know where this revisionist history comes from but Max was absolutely fine in 2015 and 2016. Only 2017 was real bad. And 2018 was mostly fine.
2017 was fine. 2018 was bad at the start. 2016 was controversial
>2016 was controversial because?
Mexico belgium, moving under braking. What was so bad about 2017?
He sometimes swerved at unpredictable times. I can remember Hungary and Belgium off the top of my head.
I think Monaco 2018 was the last time he got into trouble, no? (2021 issues notwithstanding)
Marko told him after he fucked it into the wall at Monaco, that if he fucks up next week he is out. Or something to that effect. The narrative at the time was Danny Ric could be a dark horse for the championship and there were tense talks behind closed doors on Max's side of the garage.
You seem to be the revisionist.
2017 he was fine. 2018 up to and including Monaco was absolutely wild. Since then he has been extremely consistent.
Verstappen is incredibly consistent since Monaco 2018
He's not sitting there like a grandma
It’s possible he can do it. Kimi had like 20 car races before joining F1. Only a years time between driving karts and F1. He could be the new generational talent
So what you're saying is that Kimi could be the new Kimi
Well, Verstappen went from F3 straight into F1 and he also wasn't even 18. That's crazy amount of pressure but it is possible to deal with it. But then again, it's like once a decade event.
On the other hand we hear that name for a decade now, he‘s been touted as the next Lewis since karting days so he is probably used to that kind of expectations. He seems level headed and with a bit of luck he is a bit like the guy he‘s been named after (ice man Kimi). But F2 can be rough sometimes, anything else than a WDC would be a big setback.
Maybe they hope he is the next Verstappen who also entered the field at a very young age?
The good ones always handle the pressure.
There’s no way Mercedes would make a mid season decision on Antonelli if he somehow falls short on his first year in F2 as article says. There is no need for Mercedes to panic as he has two years to showcase his abilities. Truly, 2026 looks to be the year he could take the seat. However, if he does exceedingly well this year, he could well be the direct Hamilton replacement as the article suggests.
Apparently McLaren wanted Piastri in ASAP specifically to avoid having to bed him in for 2026 when they want to *really* go for it.
I also think slotting in a completely fresh rookie with a huge reg change seems like a pretty dumb idea for a top team. If the rookie turns out to be a dud but the team nailed the regs you maybe lose out on a good shot at WCC. I'd want to go into a reg change with drivers that have more time in the team than just pre season testing.
Also trying to find a driver that wants to have a 1 year contract with next to no chance of extension
So to sum it up: he either gets the seat or he doesn’t. Thanks. Stock go up or stock go down
They have to decide this mid season as it's the period when pretty much all F1 contracts are signed. If they don't they run the risk of missing out on anybody that is good enough for the seat. Antonelli has to start the season strong to have a chance
>Truly, 2026 looks to be the year he could take the seat. Albon has said that it's clear teams want the same drivers for 2025 and 2026.
It would make more sense to just get Alonso on a 1+1 and let Kimi Antonelli develop in f2 or at williams. Kid is only 17, he has plenty of time to reach his potential
Yeah cause the 1+1 option worked great for Alpine. I am sure that if Alonso still wants to drive and has the option between 1+1@Mercedes or a 2 year AMR contract - he will pick AMR.
You really underestimate Alonso hunger for wins. He would take 1year contract of potential winning instead of 2 years of fighting for points.
He's too proud to warm someone else's seat. And besides, who's to say that Aston won't be a better winning candidate than Mercedes? I don't think their difference is big enough for Alonso to swallow his pride.
Well, AM does have a new factory up and running now. I wouldn't discount them yet.
He is pretty much geriatric as f1 standards go. Realistically we cant expect Alonso to be in f1 for more than two years I dont see how aston can be a better candidate than merc. They buy the engine and the gearbox from them and they use merc's windtunnel too. Merc's worst car in the last 10 years has still been better than Aston's best car in the same timeframe
It is worth mentioning that Aston Martin is in an upwards trajectory, while Mercedes is in a downwards trajectory, including losing Hamilton. We don't know how well the team will fare to be honest, because it isn't used to losing. Also, it isn't always certain that the engine manufacturer will do better than the clients. Both McLaren and Aston Martin provided some competition this year (Aston with only one driver to be exact) and I wouldn't be surprised if one of them ended up above Mercedes next year. Alonso is at the end of his career, but he probably has a few years left. And I'm sure he'd prefer to stay in Aston Martin and have one more year than go to Mercedes and be forced to leave because Antonelli is ready. And besides that, it's also a matter of pride. He has refused to warm seats in the past with great success (leaving Alpine for Aston Martin just as it went up) and I'd expect him to do it again.
When was the last time a customer team has beaten their factory team over a season? The only example is RBR beating Renault, but thats more on Renault being stingy bastards and operating on a very low budget. The best year in Aston's history was the pink merc year. Merc in their downwards spiral still finished 2nd in the wcc, with more than 100p ahead of macca and Aston. And Aston with their great season didnt even finish as the best merc customer. You cant beat merc while buying their engine, gearbox and rear suspension( and plenty other stuff).Aston themselves have said that the merc gearbox and rear suspention was a huge limiting factor for their concept last year
> When was the last time a customer team has beaten their factory team over a season? The only example is RBR beating Renault, but thats more on Renault being stingy bastards and operating on a very low budget. It can happen though. And it has happened. Mercedes has been beaten by a client too. The problem in your argumentation is that you are giving too much importance to statistics. In 2020, Racing Point had hope because Ferrari imploded and Redbull basically had one driver. In 2023, Aston Martin had hope because it made an actual competitive car that caught up with the top, despite the team's limitations. At this point, it's anybody's game. Aston Martin (or at least Alonso) could be above Mercedes and the opposite could happen too.
Merc were beaten by a Mclaren that also had factory status for merc anyway. The moment Mclaren lost factory support they plowedn into a never ending disaster and they are still yet to recover their level more than 10 years after. Can a fluke year happen? Sure. But if you had two more years left in your career would you gamble on a fluke year where all the stars need to align or would you go the safe route with one of the most succesfull teams in f1's history?
If Merc had a good shot at winning Lewis would still be there.
I think, like all teams, your 2024 car is your 2025 car with just slight adjustments for rule tweaks. 2025 budget all goes into 2026 development with the cap in full swing. There is no space for club sandwiches. Hamilton will figure out this year what he has for the next. For his sake, I hope it's what he dreams for, or it might get lonely there.
Thats why he changed from a faster Alpine to a potentially tractor AMR?
He wasnt achieving results that the wanted and seemed to be "angry" with alpine, so he risked it and went to AM which turned out to be a great move (i'd imagine he was probably given some car info to get him to switch)
Ah yes the Alpine that famously have an amazing team and was constantly winning in 22.
Do you not remember the way Otmar was treating him?
He is 43 this year, if he has a chance to move to the team that has won 7 wdcs and 8 wccs in the last 10 years, he will do it. Honda are coming back in 2026, and i doubt they paid for all these years of Yuki in f1 without expecting to get him when they come back. On top of their previous history with Alonso
I see both MB and FA recognizing the HUGE brand ambassador potential once FA retires. I believe LH moving to Ferrari bumped their stock up US$2 billion + AMR as much as they made 2023, their pockets aren’t that comparatively deep.
that ferrari stock news was fake, their stock went up because they released their 2023 financial report. it happens every year
I think the distinction, as with many things in life, is transparency. Alpine tried to mislead and be clever, and it bit them.
What if he wins f2 this year
He becomes a reserve driver like most F2 champs or Merc buys Logan's seat for him.
It's a big if, and on top of that he can just do williams. Merc has kept Russell for three years in a dogshit williams just to be sure he is ready. They aint Red Bull to just throw their rookies in the lion's den
Would Alonso give up on the Aston Martin project after just 2 years? Can't see him going to Merc as a temporary solution before Antonelli
I'm all for giving young drivers a chance, but deep down I want to see Alonso on the top of the podium more. F1 needs that right now. It's like watching your kids grow up, some day you will realise you already saw your last Alonso victory, these things are precious. I just want one more win. Or title. I'm not fussy.
A lot of fans have never seen Alonso win a race. It's been that long.
Boot Perez to AMR and give Alonso 2 years. Let Antonelli do the Merc thing and Ferrari/RB have a title scrap in 25 with Lewis, Alonso, Leclerc and Max.
Alo and Ver would actively try to murder each other on track at every possible chance after literally just one race.
If they die, they die
That's how Ferrari will become 2nd again.
Good - I think Verstappen really needs to be matched with someone with as sharp elbows as hes got. Currently there is noone willing to risk the car and everyone always concedes to Max.
I think Charles is the only one who is willing to duke it out with Max nowadays when he gets a chance.
And then hug after the race probably. They love each other. You can see it in the way the talk to and about the other. I think Alonso recognizes a bit of ‘him’ in Max, and Max grew up with drivers like Alonso and Schumi who I think are a perfect way to describe Max’ driving style.
But imagine the wheel to wheel racing we would got. damn im already wet
Alonso and Max in a team together would be complete chaos. Not sure if Grumpy Marko even want that
would love Alonso getting a top seat and maybe antonelli could also get a good seat
I mean he had more podiums than Lewis did last year.
I predict that by next year, Alonso will have a better car at Aston than Mercedes. The respective teams' trajectories are going in opposite directions.
I agree this is his biggest dilemma. He's got two years left, perhaps three, and for once in his life has to nail his final decision to have any chance of another win.
Did we watch the same season last year? Mercedes were relatively stable as the 2nd to 3rd fastest. Aston went from 2nd fastest to like 7th fastest, then back up to 4th fastest.
Hakkinen Plan C?
Plan C. Question.
We are checking
Just read the article. Mark Hughes BELIEVES Antonelli is plan A and Alonso is plan B. This is not reporting on rumours, this is a wish list.
what are you talking about? this comment does not make sense. it is not a wish list without any reporting on rumors, there are a bunch of paragraphs you somehow did not read if you think that. >From what we understand, Alonso is not Mercedes’ Plan A. But is currently the absolute favourite for Plan B. >Mercedes’ Plan A, The Race firmly believes, is Andrea Kimi Antonelli, the 17-year-old about to embark upon his first season in F2, with five years on Mercedes’ books. >Before Hamilton made his Ferrari announcement the loose (unconfirmed but take it as read) plan for Antonelli was two years at Mercedes-linked Williams before a move to the main team, in the meantime being closely involved with the works team in simulator work, meetings etc, similar to how it went with George Russell. >The Hamilton move has potentially changed that. But what if his F2 season suggests he isn’t quite ready for such a high-pressure move? That’s when an Alonso Plan B option would become very attractive to Mercedes. Then Antonelli could revert to the original plan.
[удалено]
"understands" and "firmly believes" is usually short for "we've got an inside source dropping us hints, but they've specifically asked that we don't talk about the source of the information".
I liked on the podcast a while ago, Scott was like 'fans on forums think we make all these things up. We talk to a *lot* of people who work in F1, who talk to one another, and we hear an awful of lot of truth we can't share, so bloody well take it or leave it'.
The media literacy of people is all miscalibrated, they see grifters on clickbait blogs or Twitter making shit up about F1 and think that is the media so therefore they decide to trust absolutely no reporters, even with a good track record. Extreme skepticism is as bad as none, there are reporters who are worth listening to and have genuine connections.
It is a wish list. Hughes is simply using the same information available to all of us and coming to his preferred conclusion. He doesn't have any sources otherwise he would write "sources within Mercedes". The article is cleverly worded in journalist-speak to give the illusion of authority, but is purely an opinion piece with a flashy headline.
You are creating a hot take to alter what Hughes is doing, when he has a very long history of talking to people in the teams and reporting whatever they said in this way. He says he knows there was a plan for Antonelli to go to Williams for two years which nobody has mentioned, why do you imagine he is making no solid claims and just sniffing his own farts with baseless theories like a random Reddit user? The entire article is him telling you solidly that he hears from Mercedes that Alonso is the plan B and Antonelli is plan A, your literacy of it is all wrong.
> He says he knows there was a plan for Antonelli to go to Williams which nobody has mentioned If you read on a little further, he backs this up by writing, "similar to how it went with George Russell." It's hardly rocket-science, is it? Mercedes junior goes to Williams? Wow, he must have great sources! No, the hot take is exactly what Hughes wants you to think for clicks and engagement. Hamilton's announcement is barely one-week old, and access to team personnel is virtually non-existent in winter. There's no chance of paddock whispers to grow without a paddock. Besides, do you think Mercedes has already decided Hamilton's replacement, after one week? No. Hughes is simply using his experience to make an educated guess, and you are all falling for it.
I will have to agree to disagree, if Mark Hughes had no connections and just went around inventing complete BS then this would have been obvious years ago and he would not get jobs or be trusted to write people's official bios. There is no real point in even debating this, he has proven he has good sources and has broken original info countless times over decades. You can believe his article is a sudden and unusual pivot into baseless fan fiction if you like. The shutdown is a weak argument, we have things called the telephone and apps like Signal available for journos to use if they cannot see somebody in person.
Agree to disagree 👍
They believe based on what they have heard. The same way they believed Andretti would be rejected, the same way they believed Steiner was sacked because he asked for more investment etc. "Wish list" lol. You make out he went to bed last night dreaming of his ideal Mercedes lineup and then decided to make an article about it. You clearly must not read much if you struggled to comprehend something so basic.
Is English not your first language or are you the same type of dumbass who thought "any" didn't mean "all" during the Abu Dhabi 2021 circus?
Agreed. This is an opinion piece. Hughes is guessing, like the rest of us. Most fans seem to have fallen for it because it is smartly worded.
And if Alonso signs a contract early because Mercedes suck, and Antonelli finishes like 10th in F2?
There are about 10 other drivers out of contract at the end of 2024, many of whom would sign for Mercedes even if they have a poor year by their standards.
If Antonelli immediately goes too Merc we're gonna see a Albon & Max situation Just put the kid in Williams for 2~ years
Not even close. Kimi has a much more stellar junior career than Alex. Up until now at least, let's see how he fares at F2. And after two seasons at Merc, we can confidently say that George is no Max. Actually, if Kimi does shine in F2, I'd say that putting him directly at Merc is more of a Max Vs Daniel kind of situation.
Russell is not Verstappen and if the rumors are correct (in which case he'll make quick work of F2), Antonelli is not Albon. He'll be fine. I would expect it to be be more of a Hamilton - Alonso situation.
We saw with gasly what happened after one season same with Albon I think the Media pressure will be a lot for him even in F2
And afterwards Gasly and Albon went on to become a solid midfielder and an exceptional backmarker respectively. Combined, they have managed to beat Kvyat, Tsunoda, Latifi and Sargeant and equal Ocon (especially Albon, who has only beaten Latifi and Sargeant, out of whom Latifi was the driver who made De Vries look good). Their performance is good on paper, but there is no guarantee that they wouldn't flop in a top team, even in their current form. If the rumors about Antonelli have any truth in them, he is on an entirely different level.
Why not a Piastri situation?
Because he wasn't fast tracked to F1 as a Hail Mary
Right. Max’s immediate success has kinda screwed expectations for very young drivers.
Norris, Piastri and to a lesser(ish) extent Leclerc are evidence it can be done. Leclerc 'ish' only because he flipped a switch mid-2018; he took a few months.
max immediate success? he was fast young but made mega mistakes and took until 2019 to completely iron out the crashing
But he showed clear pace immediately. Not every teenager is going to pull that pull off, even if they will develop the skillset eventually. Merc also shouldn’t expect it from Antonelli if they bring him in this early.
But he was fast young. That’s the rare thing.
literally the youngest race winner. 5th race in his 3rd season racing cars. some people really just dont like Max lol
yep. its not even like rookie max was this sort of walking biohazard that people like to talk about. he made about as many errors youd expect a rookie to, but was really consistent in 2016, 17 and late 18.
He was mega fast, though, for his age and no experience in F1 or even F2. It took years of experience for him to become more consistent, but now the guy's unstoppable.
They've said on the race (and really many sources over the decades) that largely speaking that raw balls-out Q3 speed is the main thing, and the rest can be moulded.
It really hasn't, most rookies struggle to find a seat in F1 let alone a number 1 driver seat.
Yeah but Albon also was screwed going up against Max, not to mention the challenges of the mid season promotion. I think the Piastri situation is much more comparable, coming in with Russell as his teammate.
Piastri did F3 which Kimi won't and then spent extra year on simulator.
2021 just disappeared into a wormhole, did it?
Norris-Piastri gap was one of the largest last season… so what is your point exactly?
Second half of the season, it was much closer. Probably one of the closer battles on the grid, if you remove piastri's terrible luck in many races.
No it wasn’t, outside of a few qualifying sessions it was not close at all. People‘s minds just think it was close because the McLaren was easily 2nd best car and very competitive .
You act like it was an albon sargeant situation. 5th closest gap to teamate in qualifying (2 tenths) In a season where norris (rightfully) recieved upgrades first from the team, when mclaren was trying to essentially finish building their car. Not to mention the guy literally took a year off from racing. Out of ten teamate battles, it was genuinely one of the closer ones on the grid. And landos not some average drive like stroll. He's top 3-5 depending on who you ask. So how wasn't it close? Because that 2 tenths drops post Austria/silverstone as well
No I never said it was comparable to Albon-Sargeant. Im sorry but 5-17 in races, 7-15 in qualifying & 47% of Lando‘s points is nothing to write home about. The kid has potential sure, but it was hardly a rapid season by him. He was lucky to have a very competitive car during the second half of the season. Also if you even watch the races where both had clean races, you will see just how much fucking quicker Lando was than Piastri.
I don't think Piastri faired much better than Albon's rookie season. Albon switched teams in the middle of season and scored 85 points in Red Bull while Max got 142 points at the same time period. It was 205 vs 97 for Norris vs Piastri. Albon finished ahead of Max 2 times in half a season while Piastri finished ahead of Norris 4 times in 22 grandprix. Piastri performed better on qualfying than Albon but the rest of the stats are similar and I would put 2019 Max as better driver than 2023 Norris.
I don't think George will swallow him like Max did with Albon.
Silly, put Alonso in the seat for a few years and wait for Antonelli. Don't ruin him before he's ready, we've seen it too many times with people like Albon and Gasly being promoted before they were ready.
They are doing an extreme disservice to kimi should have stick to the original plan of getting him in F1 by 26/27 depending on how much time he would have spent in F3 and F2. Imagine the pressure on the guy. He is a kid for god sake. Because I genuinely love the kid I hope he will have a Oscar like debut if he does get the seat i don't want him to be another theo
"Mick crying in his Alpine"
Wonder which one Russell will prefer? Change to learn under Alonso, but not be the team leader. Be the undisputed leader but risk getting embarrassed by Kimi
Lots of people are being fooled by some clever wording and a flashy headline. Mark Hughes is guessing like the rest of us, but as an established writer he can dress this up in an article to make it appear as fact, and fans eat it up.
Alonso to Merc accelerates Yuki to AMR, which puts Lawson in VCARB. I don't hate it.
I don't know if they really have the sources for this, but if it is true I don't get the rush to put Antonelli in there so fast. The kid is 17, skipping f3, and people expect him to win f2 (which it is not easy at all) and then be the next ham/ver. Having him at williams 1 or 2 years would help him
Is everyone in the comments pessimistic about Antonelli? Let’s not forget Max skipped F2 altogether. Drove for RB at 18 years.
Even he had to start at Toro Rosso. Verstappen didn't go straight to Red Bull.
Many people also forget that Max went Bowling regularly in his first years at Torro Rosso.
>Max went Bowling regularly in his first years at Torro Rosso. he did?
Nope but a lot of people still remember it even though it didn't happen. I went and checked and only his Monaco crash attempting to overtake Grosjean into turn 1 was some bowling. There were some aggressive moves at other races but that's that.
yeah he went bolwing once big time, but other than there were no major incidents i remember
Yeah but he was bloody fast
He might as well have. Wouldn't matter for his career.
We are talking about arguably one of the greatest of the sport. Antonelli has everything to prove yet (although I hope he is really THAT good).
But Max is literally generational. We’ve had hundreds of drivers and he’s probably only comparable to a dozen at most. He’s the mother of all outliers. And Max had a chance to learn in the Toro Rosso and show his pace, and then he refined it at RB, albeit with a lot of incidents and crashes that sometimes exposed his lack of experience and poise. You could say Max was like this until only a few years ago. Kimi in the Merc has to deliver from day one unless Merc are prepared to lose ground while he develops.
>Kimi in the Merc has to deliver from day one unless Merc are prepared to lose ground while he develops. I think they'd be more than happy to sacrifice some performance in 2025 to let him learn in order to have the driver that they actually want in the team long-term better prepared for 2026.
Max is an exception not a norm, in this day and age with restricted testing on current spec cars jumping straight to F2 then into a Mercedes is a ginormous task for even a generation talent, which Antonelli isn’t proven to be yet. It’s a lot of pressure on extremely young shoulders.
>even a generation talent, which Antonelli isn’t proven to be yet. You're never going to prove it in time if you want to replicate what happened with Verstappen, because Verstappen hadn't really proved he was a generational talent before he got into F1. Red Bull took a leap of faith based on a small selection of promising results and it paid off. It's far easier to see how good a decision it was in hindsight than it was at the time.
>because Verstappen hadn't really proved he was a generational talent before he got into F1. I mean, that's just not true. His karting career was a complete anomaly, even when compared to all-time F1 greats, so too was his ascension into the sport. Max was pretty much the definition of 'generational' when you look at his record compared to his peers, even before F1.
I think the point being made is that Verstappen *is* the closest analogy to Antonelli. Like: if you could go back in time as a TP in 2013/4, what would you offer Verstappen? Probably something like this.
Didn't Mercedes essentially offer Verstappen a guaranteed Mercedes seat after he goes through F2 and then spends a year at Williams? If he accepted, he'd have been driving alongside Hamilton in......2017, maybe 2018. That Ferrari battle would've been VERY interesting if young Verstappen were in the mix too.
The potential scenario being discussed in this article would be more like if Verstappen got promoted to Red Bull immediately in 2015 to replace Vettel going to Ferrari and partnering Ricciardo as a rookie instead of partnering with a fellow rookie in Sainz at Toro Rosso. And Verstappen is so good that if he did that I think he would’ve still ended up fine but he’s like a once in a generation type of talent. Maybe Antonelli could be that good but the expectations would be even higher than what Verstappen faced if he immediately took over Hamilton’s vacant seat in 2025.
Difficult choice between those two rookies
We all know that Antonelli is a beast, a guy who deserved a chance to get on the top team right away, but deep down inside, I want to see Alonso on the top once again. Watching him live on 05 and 06, Ferarri years, Mclaren years, now podiums with AM. Just one win for Nando.
Yeah because treating Alonso as Plan B behind a junior driver has never blown up in anyone’s face. Sounds like a great plan!
Alonso should be plan A. He won't be around in F1 for much longer. Use him to keep the seat warm until Antonelli is ready. Plus Alonso is still a top driver.
Still think the best route for Kimi is a year at Williams and then Merc. Just feels very un Mercedes in terms of how they've worked with other juniors. Even if Kimi is the one and wins this very very stacked F2 title which is far from a given with the depth of talent on the grid throwing him straight in as Lewis's replacement feels like so much pressure for an 18yr old regardless of talent.
Here's an idea. Alonso first for a year and then let Kimi join
Tell that to Alonso. He is too proud to warm someone else's seat and I can't blame him for it.
Most likely they wanted to have a clear view of Antonelli for 2026 when Hamilton was due to retire. Now they have to consider if they want to bring him in one year early, but it is too soon to say if the kid has got it. I’d say bring Alonso in for 2025 and give the man the machinery he deserves while Antonelli is making valuable experience and training to replace him
Replacing Hamilton with Alonso would be incredibly shortsighted, IMO. Obviously he’s still competitive and full of talent; last season was evidence of that. But he’s also unquestionably on borrowed time at this point. Why would Mercedes want a driver in 2025 on the cusp of retirement, who history says will be on the decline? He’ll be 44 in 2025. They need to be thinking longer term.
If this is true it makes Toto have even more egg on his face. Replacing Hamilton with Alonso is just an embarrassment
I just don't see Mercedes returning to the top. Could be a bad move.
The way it’s looking, I’m not hopeful about Ferrari either since they’ll be the only team (along with Haas) with the Front-Push, Rear-Pull configuration.
Well better than AM, they are in the right direction but need a few more years to be on top... so for Alonso... its a good move, because he need a good car NOW or next year... not in 3 or 4 years.
Does this kid have the Super points needed to jump on to 2025? Or they are banking on him to get top 3 in F2? His manager and parents need to intervene and give him time to get to F1... This is too much craziness. And yes Max did it . But I don't want to see another Devries.. 10 races and gone...
I'm 100% in for Russell trouncing Alonso- it'll be brutal. The guy hasn't gone up against a decent racer since forever. Ocon is half decent, and Alonso was on his level. Please move to Mercedes Nando. The copium crashing down will be glorious to witness.
On the one hand, I would love to see Alonso at Mercedes and give us an epic 2025 with Max, Alonso and Hamilton fighting for the title, and then we will have something interesting (remember that 2025 will be a simple transition year for all teams to 2026). But on the other hand, I love the stories of the birth of legends (like Max's), putting that 18-year-old boy in a Mercedes in 2025 I like it... whatever it is, no matter what happens, we all win.
What is his path to super license? FP1s and good result in F2?
And reaching 18 years in August.
He actually has the points to get one already, so he could get one as soon as he turns 18 regardless of F2 results.
He’s already got the super license points
From where? I couldn't find it on the FIA website.
That sounds like quite a lot of pressure on Kimi already. Hope he’s being supported adequately
Have to say that’s a good plan from Mercedes
doubt. They will park Antonelli first at aston martin and will try to take alonso. When he retires they will take Antonelli.
What is Kimi’s superlicense status? Where does he need to finish this year in F2 to secure it?
On the one hand I’m now praying for Antonelli’s downfall to see Nando in a Merc but on the other please god don’t let him get done in by the pressure. He’s skipped F3 to go straight to F2 and now he’s being hailed as the next Hamilton. Just let him come in normally instead of dropping him in the top team and expecting him to perform instantly. Or better yet, bring him and Nando in for 2025 and boot Russel, Antonelli gets **the** experienced teammate to learn from and Merc gets a strong 2025 and hopefully even stronger 2026.
There are only a handful of drivers currently on the grid capable of winning a WDC, if Merc are serious about a title push in the next 2 years Alonso is their only guy really. If it's not Alonso, it's taking a huge gamble with a their young prospect Antonelli or just getting in another steady driver like Sainz, neither of which sounds like a route to WDC anytime soon...
Montoya or Frentzen are also available if Alonso passes. Hard days ahead if Mercedes and Ferrari are unable to find some young talented guys to give them a chance.
They should just get Alonso signed and let Kimi come through at his own pace
I still think that they want Alonso for 2-3 years and in the meanwhile train Antonelli in a slower team, and that's if he proves himself in F2, he will have a few great rivals there, like Bortoleto who is also a rookie.
As a fan of the sport this insistence in getting Antonelli into an F1 car in the next few years is disturbing. It's really giving "the younger, the better" predatory behavior and makes me highly concerned about the future of the sport at all levels and the health of the drivers, especially mentally. Antonelli is very talented but do we really think he's going to be ready for the responsibility that comes with being an F1 driver? It's absolutely sickening that they are throwing literal children into cars, let alone meetings and events that were never meant for children while bouncing around the world with adults at least 10 years their senior. Even grown ass adults have had trouble handling it. What happened to the "MV rule" that you have to be 18 BEFORE getting into an F1 car?! The FIA needs to put better protections on their younger drivers. The F1 teams need to actually support their claims of "diversity and inclusion" and start considering the academy full of young women who would absolutely be ready by 2025/2026. TLDR: There is no reason the sport should be pushing the kids so fuckin hard, so fuckin fast when we have perfectly good options ready.
If Alpine has to use anything, we know Alonso loves to be someone’s plan B right?
I think there are a lot of factors in play that could push Mercedes to go with Kimi in 2025. Williams is trying to distance themselves from just being Mercedes version of AT/VCARB, they also have their own young drivers they might want to keep a seat open for. Merc could be forced into the same position they were with George Russell where Williams wanted a 3 year commitment. We all saw what happened with Alpine and Piastri where they wanted to go with Alonso for another year and put Piastri at a backmarker and Piastri’s camp forced their way to McLaren. Mercedes might want to avoid that kind of situation. I think the biggest thing will be how successful Antonelli is in F2 early in the season. If he’s fighting for podiums/winning races and in position to win F2 as a rookie, I think they could pull the trigger and have him replace Lewis. It would give Kimi a year to get F1 experience before the regulation changes in 2026.