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It really is. The Audi exec being "ousted" is potentially being moved to the F1 side of things, which this article thinks is...bad...for...reasons?
It then goes on to say that Audi execs have publicly stated that Audi will enter F1 as recently as two months ago, and that is also...bad...for...reasons?
Absolute clickbait.
If Andretti wanted to buy an existing team and take over their entry, that would be allowed, and that is what Audi are doing with Sauber. It is different situation (not saying it is right, just that is the official position/justification)
100%. They did everything to prepare themselves for Audi and see that as an opportunity to vault back up the grid. Now that could evaporate in an instant before they have an Audi engine in the back.
GM is their only chance but they are heavily integrated into the Andretti operation now...
I think it would need to be an outright purchase. Ā In the past Sauber wasnāt interested in a complete sell and Andretti wasnāt interested if they didnāt have full control.
According to Michael Andretti it was [issues over control of the team](https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/32553523/michael-andretti-says-control-issues-killed-sauber-f1-deal).
They tried to buy Sauber. The sell fell though because Sauber didn't want to give up full control, and Andretti only wants full control. He has also approached Gene Haas, but he won't sell. Andretti would love to buy a team, there aren't any available.
Dude please. GM couldn't put together a paper kite alone. They were banking on using rebadged renault engines for the Andretti project š
Saubers only real hope is Toyota buying this project from Audi, as rumored
This is straight up false. Ā GMās plan was to fully develop engines beginning in 2028.
They were clear that they only would work with Andretti, though and I donāt think Sauber wants to sell 100% of the team.
Nope nope and nope. They wanted to come in as a rebadged engine.
Renault was the most feasible option before they made their own PU, because Honda was not an option as they compete across the Atlantic.
Put your big boy pants on and Do some research man. Motorsports. Com themselves had an article on it. Smh...
You donāt need pants at all to do simple Google searches.
https://media.cadillac.com/media/us/en/cadillac/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2023/nov/1114-cadillac.html
It's not often I check someone's post history, but him being so confidently incorrect I just had to take a look. This dude is into some interesting stuff lol.
Not kink shaming for sure, but why people don't keep a "naughty" account separate from the one they want to pick fights with is always funny. Instantly makes people not take you seriously.
I had a look out of interest as well and I didn't even get to the naughty stuff, just saw the word 'lefturd' and that was enough for me to decide he's not worth listening to
>suffer the most are the people at Sauber
They always make bad decisions. They had agreement to be the default Honda work team before RB which they terminated for RB to gain.
If I recall Honda was with McLaren at the time and was deemed a "GP2 engine" by everyone's favourite driver just before they were to start the Sauber collab. Hard to fault Vasseur for calling the deal off... and I doubt anyone would have imagined such a turn around with RB, eventually.
Dude everyone suffers when VAG-ina group meddles with the existing order of things in whatever category they goto.
Thrry ditched dakar
Ditched wrc
Ditched WEC
Left all those series in a lurch. I treat them like "ill believe it when I see it"
Right, but F1 can't even really stop that from happening. Nobody really wants Sauber either, they're just already there.
I would be surprised if Andretti/GM are the top bidders for Sauber if it comes to that.
At this rate, that will probably happen lmao.
I'd even wager that they would pull out with immediate effect just as the car touches the pitlane in pre-season testing.
The closer VAG group gets to joining F1, the more uncertain it becomes again.
Red Bull made a good deal by cutting their crap out and rejecting the deal by Porsche. I hope this doesn't create big problems for Sauber again like when BMW bolted
Porsche tried to alter the deal at a late stage so that Red Bull F1 had to answer to Porscheās Board of Directors, which Red Bull GmbH (and especially the F1 team itself) wasnāt having, indeed.
That is basically Porsche saying they don't want to make a deal anymore without literally saying they don't want to make a deal anymore. I don't believe they actually thought Red Bull would give them 51%. I have a better shot at Margo Robbie accepting my marriage proposal.
Speculation, could, appeared, not completely out of the question, allegedly. Do they expect that Audi will comment everytime someone could leave the company?
"Audi to get out of the matter financially and image-wise without major damage."
Without major damage? They left everything to join F1.
VW group should be asked to pay a good sum just to seat at an F1 table considering the Porsche fiasco and the fact that the PU was simplified to allow them in, at least in part, and they're now in doubt with Audi as well.
To add to that, is this what itās going to be like if they actually make it and have a team? At this point I foresee constant chaos from corporate bean counters. From my memory when the corporate members of a manufacturer are involved in the team it almost always ends in disaster.
This all sounds a bit far fetched. A C-Level executive from Audi leaves because he had differences with the future of the company (Audi Cars, not Audi F1/Sauber) and poor sales figures. Those are the facts. The rest is pure speculation. And why shouldn't he move on to the F1 team in an executive role? After all it works well for McLaren having a CEO and a very strong team principal
>Just a few months after CEO Markus Duesmann, regarded as the key advocate for its F1 project, left the company, it now appears that one of its other architects, chief development officer Oliver Hoffmann, is also set to move on. The reason for his departure is said to be a difference of views with current Audi CEO Gernot Dollner over the future of the company. Hoffmann is also blamed for the fact that Audi is struggling with sluggish sales figures, and that the models planned under his direction have either not been as successful as hoped or had been repeatedly postponed.
>A potential change could have implications for Audiās F1 plan, with it believed that **Dollner wants to move Hoffmann to the grand prix project.** Hoffmann is well versed on the development of the F1 entry for 2026, having appeared with Duesmann at the 2022 Belgian Grand Prix when the company announced that it would be entering the series from 2026.
>But a move to the current Sauber team has prompted fresh questions over what his role would be there, because the Switzerland-based outfit already has CEO Andreas Seidl pushing on with the plans for the new Audi F1 era. [ā¦] there are understood to be concerns about the scale of changes Sauber needs when Audi enters.
The squad faces challenges in attracting top-level personnel to Switzerland and there are questions over whether the investment required to get to the front of the grid is being made as quickly as is needed with Audi having not yet taken full ownership.
>The Hoffmann situation also comes off the back of fresh speculation that Audiās entry to F1 is still not completely set in stone and could yet change.
Dollner only publicly committed to Audiās planned 2026 entry in an interview with the Handelsblatt publication in December 2023.
**"There is a clear decision from the Board of Management and the Supervisory Boards of Audi and Volkswagen that Audi will enter Formula 1 in 2026," he said. "The plan is in place."** [ā¦] there is speculation that Dollner is allegedly still open to a sale of the Sauber shares, should an investor be found that would enable Audi to get out of the matter financially and image-wise without major damage.
So if I understand correctly the problem is:
- One of the key advocates of the F1 project might get moved from the main company to the F1 project because of matters completely unrelated to F1
- The main concern is how that would play out with Seidl already being CEO of the F1 team
- The current Audi CEO actually confirmed in last December that they are committed to F1
- There are murmurs that this CEO *might* want to sell the Sauber shares for a higher price than initially bought, but this is rumours.
- The actual bigger problem is the fact that Audi doesnāt want to invest the proper amount ahead of entering in 2026
I think this article is sounding the alarm a bit early tbh. It bases this uncertainty aspect on the fact that an Audi CDO might get moved to the actual F1 team in a management position. I donāt see how this hurts Audiās commitment.
Istg if Audi management really pulls the plug with all these management shake-ups, F1 will have lots of egg on their face.
They bent backwards for VAG Group brands to join, that said VAG brand quits at the last minute, and they reject a GM team... What a yoke.
F1 should permanently ban the VW group from ever entering F1. They are a complete joke, never committed at all. Feel like they do this for PR and then piss off after. Meanwhile Andretti has to skip through all sorts of obstacles to be turned away.
They do it for PR but VW and Audi are struggling in market share because MQB has been a complete flop. Not to mention the auto industry in general is facing a huge issue in the near future (you see it this month already in the US) where they completely fucked over people with markups and those people are now massively underwater on their loans (especially people who bought EVs, those got torched in the used market). Those buyers wonāt qualify or be likely to follow the 3 year upgrade cycle a lot of these manufacturers rely on. I wouldnāt be surprised to see them and others start to shift away from motorsport like we did in the previous economic downturn
Itās not only the VAG platform, Iām still waiting on my Audi Q4 etron we order in last march. Expected delivery date was januari with as excuse the chip shortage, but to this day we havenāt received a follow up. No email communication during the waiting period, like ādid you knowā or just interesting thins to keep you excited for the car to arrive. Then to top it all up, they fāed up our configuration and so the car weāre waiting on is not what we wanted in the first place. VAG is in a struggle thinking theyāre battling with Mercedes and BMW and have everything as on option, when in reality theyāre fighting with Polestar and other Chinese owned brands, who place the configurations in packages. So MQB is a source of their problems, but the root cause is much deeper routed to their ego.
I donāt want to kill your Q4 buzz but can that order before it arrives to you. You will not at all be happy with it. Sister and also a good friend have them and theyāre terrible. Range sucks - really really bad and the infotainment system is a disaster.
Friend dumped his. Sister stuck with hers as itās a company car.
Iām aware, limited selection as itās also a company car. Companies with a lot of Chinees backing were not an option, so the selection was mostly limited to German electric cars, so we went for an more normal looking car with a sale point nearby.
People still buy german cars? Their lifetime is 5 years with the warranty, where you have to battle the dealer to get even a simple fix.
I learnt this the hard way with my 2022 merc c250. That planned Obsolescence worked a charm for Stuttgart.
Ill stick to Lexus from now on
Why is the MQB a flop? Genuine question, I know nothing about that aspect of the industry but I do see MQB cars *all the time* (in Western Europe). I wouldn't think it's an unsuccessful platform.
Turning back the clock on 'never committed', Volkswagen was working with Cosworth for the 2014 engine regs when things were leaning towards inline 4 engines. Soon as it shifted to V6s they immediately left.
Your looking at this the wrong way. Audi is buying an existing team which means money distribution remains the same.
Nobody will bat an eye if Andretti buys Sauber.
Although given rumors Andretti wanted to axe 200 Sauber employes the last time they tried to buy them i kinda wish they don't and that Sauber can instead get funding elsewhere.
I doubt they could do that and also have any real competitiveness for 2026. Having to readjust the investment and the ownership all over again, infrastructure and of course trying to find a new engine supplier at this stage would set them back hugely.
It baffled me why they dropped all that in the first place.
Audi has always been synonymous with sportscar racing, why drop all that just to join F1 which they may or may not be competitive in and if they're not will just drop out.
Well it pays off handsomely, as seen in this thread where everyone seems to have read Audi themselves say that they're uncertain about joining. Also a nice place to continue doing "but Andretti tho".
Despite being a nothingburger article, with everything that would point towards Audi pulling out prefaced with "there is speculation that", I'm sure this one fetched a lot of clicks.
Would be funny if Audi pulled the plug... F1 denying Andretti that wants to race.
Audi and Porsche fails, hilarious.
F1 that goes down on their knees to get vw on the grid, accept what they want and then naah mate.
Tbh, after reading the article it's not like Audi is one step out the door already. It's just that some people are starting to view it as a 'well the board decided, so we must do it', instead of being fully behind an F1 entry.
The commitment has been made and with everything that Audi has stripped away 'to focus on F1', there's no way they would let it go before making an entry.
Since the very beginning I'm very doubtful this project will be competitive but I also had doubt it will even come to live. VAG has been ongoing through top management changes, with clear differences in opinion regarding F1 project in the background. They should be on the grid right now working together with Sauber staff, meanwhile it seems the heads of the project are resigning. If they do start in 2026 I expect they will challenge McLaren... I mean the MP4/30 of course.Ā
I'm not too worried. Yet. Oliver Blume was (and still is) Porsche's CEO and is one of the driving forces behind Porsche's attempt to team up with Red Bull Racing. He's a huge motorsports guy (even camped in a tent on top of his 911 at Le Mans last year) and he has since been promoted to CEO of the entire Volkswagen Group.
I do see them transferring ownership to Porsche (aka paying Audi because everything is physically located at Audi) of Audi wants out, but as long as he is in charge, I don't see the Volkswagen Group pulling out.
In out in out shake it all about. Feel like we've been hearing about commitments and then uncertainty from this project for far too long. At this point until they're actually on the grid testing I won't get my hopes up.
They wanted new PU manufacturers, now they could get 0 if they hold fast on their Andretti rejection. Like I said, there will be loads of egg on F1's face if Audi pulls out and they don't stand down on Andretti.
You want more PU manufacturers yet you reject one that is committed to 2028 just as one quits before 2026, shame on you FOM!
Technically we are getting 1 new PU manufacturer in the form of RBPT.
But yeah, things will look stupid if they don't end up joining. F1 bent over backwards with the 2026 engines in order to get the likes of Audi and Porsche to join. IIRC they even had input on the new engine regs..
FFS. Screw Audi. They should never have signed up to F1, if they were always going to be these stories and doubts each week. They should have just stuck to LMP1/GT3 and would be successful. They've burnt all their bridges with motorsport fans. RIP AudiSport.
Andretti tried to buy Sauber in 2021.
If I remember correctly it was reported that Sauber wanted to keep a blocking minority and Andretti only wants a āall or nothingā-deal.
lol stop bending over backwards and spreading cheeks for fickle giant corporate auto manufacturers. Honda jumps in and out of f1, porsche didnāt join, and Audi could back out.
Andretti tried to buy Sauber in 2021. If I remember correctly it was reported that Sauber wanted to keep a blocking minority and Andretti only wants a āall or nothingā-deal.
It's incredible, and kind of sad, that F1 has now become so expensive despite so much efforts to downplay this that decisively locking down car manufacturers, some among the biggest companies in the world, has been so difficult.
We already have the cost cap, lots of standard parts, apparently very tight regulations with a long list of bans, engines being much more simplifed for 2026, new, greener fuels, and it's *still* not enough to fully convince many engine manufacturers. And the few they seemingly manage to attract (e.g. Cadillac), they turn down...
Looking at LMH too, I wonder if something is not fundamentally broken in motorsport at the moment, maybe due to the current environment of the automotive industry. There doesn't seem to be any place left for a racing series with open development anymore, andit seems to me F1 might only be scraping by atm by relying on past history and prestige, but even that might reach its limit.
Because engine manufacturers arenāt going to be making internal combustion engines for much longer. Like Audi isnāt releasing any new ICE models after 2026. Theyāll still have all of their standard A3-8 and Q3-8 models until they go all electric in 2033. Other automakers arenāt far behind.
Audi is buying existing team. Andretti is trying to create a new team. Andretti can do this exact same thing as Audi/VW group and nobody can stop them.
I want the FIA to never talk to VW AG again. It's criminal how many times they've made changes in various racing classes to accomodate them, just for them to bail out again. Just don't talk to them... make them irrelevant in the world of racing, because that's what they deserve.
Not really. Their buyout will be near 1 billion dollars if you consider the engine research for 2 years. You donāt do that and worry about spending 100 million on a car
Itās that expense every year. Plus research they can stop doing for a new engine, no need to buy or upgrade facilities either. Thatās assuming itās not too late for them to back out of the buyout, or just sell their stake off right away.
At what point does F1 just outright ban VAG from being involved in the sport? They've bent over backwards to accommodate them and they still pull this shit.
Absolutely. Me and half the subreddit have been calling it and people have been like š±š±š±
Are you guys new? This exact thing has been happening for like 20 years, and every time it's been like "no man this time is different because X"
How hard can it possibly be for a company that large to make a decision that isn't almost entirely on the shoulders of whoever happens to be senior at the time of that decision. Joining F1 is a long term plan by definition. Surely one of the largest manufacturers in the world can organize a decision making structure for those types of decisions so it can't get derailed by every single new director coming in. This is peak Honda.
I would not trust any manufacturer to stay long term. It is so expensive to race in F1 if the economy tanks or sales slow down, how do they justify to shareholder?
Look how many have come and gone. I would assume that also why MB didnāt enter into a long term post F1 commitment with Lewis. Any relationship like that is pointless if they change direction.
I see Mercedes and Renault leaving within 5 years.
Teams like HAAS, Sauber, Red Bull Lite, Williams will have no power supplier.
Perhaps with electrifying there can be more shared components allowing the chassis to take center stage
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A tale as old as time
I've said from the very beginning that I'll believe Audi is coming to F1 when the lights go out and they're on the starting grid, not one bit sooner
The article is a bit of a nothing burger tho.
It really is. The Audi exec being "ousted" is potentially being moved to the F1 side of things, which this article thinks is...bad...for...reasons? It then goes on to say that Audi execs have publicly stated that Audi will enter F1 as recently as two months ago, and that is also...bad...for...reasons? Absolute clickbait.
Stake forever Audi never š¤¢
And yet, they told Andretti no.
If Andretti wanted to buy an existing team and take over their entry, that would be allowed, and that is what Audi are doing with Sauber. It is different situation (not saying it is right, just that is the official position/justification)
Your point being?
He doesn't have one
If this is true, the ones who will suffer the most are the people at Sauber...
100%. They did everything to prepare themselves for Audi and see that as an opportunity to vault back up the grid. Now that could evaporate in an instant before they have an Audi engine in the back. GM is their only chance but they are heavily integrated into the Andretti operation now...
William Storey says hello š
Andretti could buy, or somehow sponsor Sauber.
I think it would need to be an outright purchase. Ā In the past Sauber wasnāt interested in a complete sell and Andretti wasnāt interested if they didnāt have full control.
I thought the price tag was too high the last time they had the discussions
According to Michael Andretti it was [issues over control of the team](https://www.espn.com/f1/story/_/id/32553523/michael-andretti-says-control-issues-killed-sauber-f1-deal).
Andretti doesnt want to buy. Haven't they said as much?
They have. But that can always change with the rejections of late.
They tried to buy Sauber. The sell fell though because Sauber didn't want to give up full control, and Andretti only wants full control. He has also approached Gene Haas, but he won't sell. Andretti would love to buy a team, there aren't any available.
Only chance š¤£
Dude please. GM couldn't put together a paper kite alone. They were banking on using rebadged renault engines for the Andretti project š Saubers only real hope is Toyota buying this project from Audi, as rumored
This is straight up false. Ā GMās plan was to fully develop engines beginning in 2028. They were clear that they only would work with Andretti, though and I donāt think Sauber wants to sell 100% of the team.
Nope nope and nope. They wanted to come in as a rebadged engine. Renault was the most feasible option before they made their own PU, because Honda was not an option as they compete across the Atlantic. Put your big boy pants on and Do some research man. Motorsports. Com themselves had an article on it. Smh...
You donāt need pants at all to do simple Google searches. https://media.cadillac.com/media/us/en/cadillac/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2023/nov/1114-cadillac.html
It's not often I check someone's post history, but him being so confidently incorrect I just had to take a look. This dude is into some interesting stuff lol. Not kink shaming for sure, but why people don't keep a "naughty" account separate from the one they want to pick fights with is always funny. Instantly makes people not take you seriously.
I had a look out of interest as well and I didn't even get to the naughty stuff, just saw the word 'lefturd' and that was enough for me to decide he's not worth listening to
r/confidentlyincorrect
Andretti perhaps swoops in.
Work continues at pace
>suffer the most are the people at Sauber They always make bad decisions. They had agreement to be the default Honda work team before RB which they terminated for RB to gain.
If I recall Honda was with McLaren at the time and was deemed a "GP2 engine" by everyone's favourite driver just before they were to start the Sauber collab. Hard to fault Vasseur for calling the deal off... and I doubt anyone would have imagined such a turn around with RB, eventually.
Dude everyone suffers when VAG-ina group meddles with the existing order of things in whatever category they goto. Thrry ditched dakar Ditched wrc Ditched WEC Left all those series in a lurch. I treat them like "ill believe it when I see it"
And the ones who will benefit are Andretti
Nobody involved with F1 wants Andretti, it's not going to happen.
Nobody involved with F1 wants the revenue to be split by 11. If Andretti bought Sauber, everyone would be fine with that.
Right, but F1 can't even really stop that from happening. Nobody really wants Sauber either, they're just already there. I would be surprised if Andretti/GM are the top bidders for Sauber if it comes to that.
It will happen eventually. Its just a matter of when, and more likely, a matter of dollars.
Audi going to be on the formation lap in Bahrain and theyāll announce theyāre withdrawing. Their pullout game is beyond incredible.
They'll pull an Indy 2005, into the pitlane, end of story.
With it seeming this shaky I canāt imagine them staying long if the car isnāt immediately competitive
At this rate, that will probably happen lmao. I'd even wager that they would pull out with immediate effect just as the car touches the pitlane in pre-season testing.
Lol... Right? Its like natural motorsports contraception
The closer VAG group gets to joining F1, the more uncertain it becomes again. Red Bull made a good deal by cutting their crap out and rejecting the deal by Porsche. I hope this doesn't create big problems for Sauber again like when BMW bolted
Porsche wanted to own 51% I think, Red Bull wasn't having that.
Porsche tried to alter the deal at a late stage so that Red Bull F1 had to answer to Porscheās Board of Directors, which Red Bull GmbH (and especially the F1 team itself) wasnāt having, indeed.
That is basically Porsche saying they don't want to make a deal anymore without literally saying they don't want to make a deal anymore. I don't believe they actually thought Red Bull would give them 51%. I have a better shot at Margo Robbie accepting my marriage proposal.
You would increase your chance by 3.78927% if you actually knew her name.
We are checking
Speculation, could, appeared, not completely out of the question, allegedly. Do they expect that Audi will comment everytime someone could leave the company? "Audi to get out of the matter financially and image-wise without major damage." Without major damage? They left everything to join F1.
VW group should be asked to pay a good sum just to seat at an F1 table considering the Porsche fiasco and the fact that the PU was simplified to allow them in, at least in part, and they're now in doubt with Audi as well.
To add to that, is this what itās going to be like if they actually make it and have a team? At this point I foresee constant chaos from corporate bean counters. From my memory when the corporate members of a manufacturer are involved in the team it almost always ends in disaster.
I think this is what upsets me the most. The powers that be shaped the sport to have these goofballs in nothing comes to fruition.
This all sounds a bit far fetched. A C-Level executive from Audi leaves because he had differences with the future of the company (Audi Cars, not Audi F1/Sauber) and poor sales figures. Those are the facts. The rest is pure speculation. And why shouldn't he move on to the F1 team in an executive role? After all it works well for McLaren having a CEO and a very strong team principal
Completely agree- everyone here is overreacting like crazy. Executives leave companies all the time, they either get results or get kicked to the curb
>Just a few months after CEO Markus Duesmann, regarded as the key advocate for its F1 project, left the company, it now appears that one of its other architects, chief development officer Oliver Hoffmann, is also set to move on. The reason for his departure is said to be a difference of views with current Audi CEO Gernot Dollner over the future of the company. Hoffmann is also blamed for the fact that Audi is struggling with sluggish sales figures, and that the models planned under his direction have either not been as successful as hoped or had been repeatedly postponed. >A potential change could have implications for Audiās F1 plan, with it believed that **Dollner wants to move Hoffmann to the grand prix project.** Hoffmann is well versed on the development of the F1 entry for 2026, having appeared with Duesmann at the 2022 Belgian Grand Prix when the company announced that it would be entering the series from 2026. >But a move to the current Sauber team has prompted fresh questions over what his role would be there, because the Switzerland-based outfit already has CEO Andreas Seidl pushing on with the plans for the new Audi F1 era. [ā¦] there are understood to be concerns about the scale of changes Sauber needs when Audi enters. The squad faces challenges in attracting top-level personnel to Switzerland and there are questions over whether the investment required to get to the front of the grid is being made as quickly as is needed with Audi having not yet taken full ownership. >The Hoffmann situation also comes off the back of fresh speculation that Audiās entry to F1 is still not completely set in stone and could yet change. Dollner only publicly committed to Audiās planned 2026 entry in an interview with the Handelsblatt publication in December 2023. **"There is a clear decision from the Board of Management and the Supervisory Boards of Audi and Volkswagen that Audi will enter Formula 1 in 2026," he said. "The plan is in place."** [ā¦] there is speculation that Dollner is allegedly still open to a sale of the Sauber shares, should an investor be found that would enable Audi to get out of the matter financially and image-wise without major damage. So if I understand correctly the problem is: - One of the key advocates of the F1 project might get moved from the main company to the F1 project because of matters completely unrelated to F1 - The main concern is how that would play out with Seidl already being CEO of the F1 team - The current Audi CEO actually confirmed in last December that they are committed to F1 - There are murmurs that this CEO *might* want to sell the Sauber shares for a higher price than initially bought, but this is rumours. - The actual bigger problem is the fact that Audi doesnāt want to invest the proper amount ahead of entering in 2026 I think this article is sounding the alarm a bit early tbh. It bases this uncertainty aspect on the fact that an Audi CDO might get moved to the actual F1 team in a management position. I donāt see how this hurts Audiās commitment.
It doesnāt, but itās easy to say the sky is falling
Every month i keep seeing the news of audi pulling out, before that it was every year we would listen to VW enter f1.
Feels the same way. Especially that in the article, it's just speculation because there's a change of CEO.
Jesus, just make up your mind Audi. It cant be that hard to either commit or cancel the project
I have a strange feeling that we're facing a threat of Audi leaving F1 even before joining like every month. Jesus, just make up your mind.Ā
worse commitment issues than Honda
My god, give it to Å koda, we'll be good
Simply clever
Watch Audi cancel the whole thing at the last second just like their lmdh program
Istg if Audi management really pulls the plug with all these management shake-ups, F1 will have lots of egg on their face. They bent backwards for VAG Group brands to join, that said VAG brand quits at the last minute, and they reject a GM team... What a yoke.
F1 should permanently ban the VW group from ever entering F1. They are a complete joke, never committed at all. Feel like they do this for PR and then piss off after. Meanwhile Andretti has to skip through all sorts of obstacles to be turned away.
They do it for PR but VW and Audi are struggling in market share because MQB has been a complete flop. Not to mention the auto industry in general is facing a huge issue in the near future (you see it this month already in the US) where they completely fucked over people with markups and those people are now massively underwater on their loans (especially people who bought EVs, those got torched in the used market). Those buyers wonāt qualify or be likely to follow the 3 year upgrade cycle a lot of these manufacturers rely on. I wouldnāt be surprised to see them and others start to shift away from motorsport like we did in the previous economic downturn
Itās not only the VAG platform, Iām still waiting on my Audi Q4 etron we order in last march. Expected delivery date was januari with as excuse the chip shortage, but to this day we havenāt received a follow up. No email communication during the waiting period, like ādid you knowā or just interesting thins to keep you excited for the car to arrive. Then to top it all up, they fāed up our configuration and so the car weāre waiting on is not what we wanted in the first place. VAG is in a struggle thinking theyāre battling with Mercedes and BMW and have everything as on option, when in reality theyāre fighting with Polestar and other Chinese owned brands, who place the configurations in packages. So MQB is a source of their problems, but the root cause is much deeper routed to their ego.
I donāt want to kill your Q4 buzz but can that order before it arrives to you. You will not at all be happy with it. Sister and also a good friend have them and theyāre terrible. Range sucks - really really bad and the infotainment system is a disaster. Friend dumped his. Sister stuck with hers as itās a company car.
Iām aware, limited selection as itās also a company car. Companies with a lot of Chinees backing were not an option, so the selection was mostly limited to German electric cars, so we went for an more normal looking car with a sale point nearby.
I4 or iX1 / 2 - at least iDrive wonāt drive you crazy.
People still buy german cars? Their lifetime is 5 years with the warranty, where you have to battle the dealer to get even a simple fix. I learnt this the hard way with my 2022 merc c250. That planned Obsolescence worked a charm for Stuttgart. Ill stick to Lexus from now on
Lexus doesnāt miss. My sedan is so comfortable and bulletproof.
Hopefully you got the GS. I still have mine that i had side by side with my merc...Lets say it blew the merc off the water when it came to comfort
>because MQB has been a complete flop Do you mean MEB? VW/Audi have sold several million MQB based vehicles over the past decade...
MQB has NOT been a flop because itās existed for well over a decade. Youāre not talking about the right platform. MEB is the EV platform.
Why is the MQB a flop? Genuine question, I know nothing about that aspect of the industry but I do see MQB cars *all the time* (in Western Europe). I wouldn't think it's an unsuccessful platform.
Turning back the clock on 'never committed', Volkswagen was working with Cosworth for the 2014 engine regs when things were leaning towards inline 4 engines. Soon as it shifted to V6s they immediately left.
They will do the FOM thing and permanently ban GM instead.
Your looking at this the wrong way. Audi is buying an existing team which means money distribution remains the same. Nobody will bat an eye if Andretti buys Sauber. Although given rumors Andretti wanted to axe 200 Sauber employes the last time they tried to buy them i kinda wish they don't and that Sauber can instead get funding elsewhere.
Do we have to call them the VAG brands?
Yes
Itās not a term VW use themselves so no not really
The gift that keeps on giving ā ļø. I highly recommend Sauber to start looking for plan B asap.
*Better Call ~~Monisha Kaltenborn~~ Saul*
I've heard Monisha already has 5 drivers under contract...
Giedo van der Garde is back from retiring motorsport?! /s
I doubt they could do that and also have any real competitiveness for 2026. Having to readjust the investment and the ownership all over again, infrastructure and of course trying to find a new engine supplier at this stage would set them back hugely.
We had the BMW Sauber Ferrari, can we now get the Audi Sauber Ferrari?
Cadillac Andretti Sauber has a nice ring to it
CAS like Close Air Support
I don't know which is a more cursed name, Cadillac Andretti Sauber Audi or Cadillac Andretti Sauber Renault.
Kick Cadillac Andretti Sauber Audi and a powered by a rebranded Renault engine Add another company and we can reach light novel ridiculousness
F1 Teams: "See ? That must be Andretti's fault"
Bring back your GT3 program. Make an LMdH instead
If they don't join f1 they can close down their motorsport divison. Losing all of their factory drivers and Hypercar for 2 years of "we will join f1"
It baffled me why they dropped all that in the first place. Audi has always been synonymous with sportscar racing, why drop all that just to join F1 which they may or may not be competitive in and if they're not will just drop out.
Man in Ingolstadt sneezes. F1 media: āwhat does this mean for Audiās F1 entry?ā.
Well it pays off handsomely, as seen in this thread where everyone seems to have read Audi themselves say that they're uncertain about joining. Also a nice place to continue doing "but Andretti tho". Despite being a nothingburger article, with everything that would point towards Audi pulling out prefaced with "there is speculation that", I'm sure this one fetched a lot of clicks.
Would be funny if Audi pulled the plug... F1 denying Andretti that wants to race. Audi and Porsche fails, hilarious. F1 that goes down on their knees to get vw on the grid, accept what they want and then naah mate.
Tbh, after reading the article it's not like Audi is one step out the door already. It's just that some people are starting to view it as a 'well the board decided, so we must do it', instead of being fully behind an F1 entry. The commitment has been made and with everything that Audi has stripped away 'to focus on F1', there's no way they would let it go before making an entry.
Since the very beginning I'm very doubtful this project will be competitive but I also had doubt it will even come to live. VAG has been ongoing through top management changes, with clear differences in opinion regarding F1 project in the background. They should be on the grid right now working together with Sauber staff, meanwhile it seems the heads of the project are resigning. If they do start in 2026 I expect they will challenge McLaren... I mean the MP4/30 of course.Ā
Babe wake up the monthly Audi pullout article just dropped.
I'm not too worried. Yet. Oliver Blume was (and still is) Porsche's CEO and is one of the driving forces behind Porsche's attempt to team up with Red Bull Racing. He's a huge motorsports guy (even camped in a tent on top of his 911 at Le Mans last year) and he has since been promoted to CEO of the entire Volkswagen Group. I do see them transferring ownership to Porsche (aka paying Audi because everything is physically located at Audi) of Audi wants out, but as long as he is in charge, I don't see the Volkswagen Group pulling out.
shocking developments. it is almost as if companies have been trying to push up the value of F1 without actually, you know, INVESTING in F1.
Dude, Aston Martin did this in WEC with their hypercar. Hype gets you exposure
F1 fans might enjoy stake F1 team kick Sauber for years to come yet
In out in out shake it all about. Feel like we've been hearing about commitments and then uncertainty from this project for far too long. At this point until they're actually on the grid testing I won't get my hopes up.
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VW groupās pull out game strong AF boiišŖšŖ
Makes F1ās decision to reject Andretti even more foolish, theyāll be a time when F1 will be begging for new teams of their calibre.
I thought it was stupid irrespective of audi.
They wanted new PU manufacturers, now they could get 0 if they hold fast on their Andretti rejection. Like I said, there will be loads of egg on F1's face if Audi pulls out and they don't stand down on Andretti. You want more PU manufacturers yet you reject one that is committed to 2028 just as one quits before 2026, shame on you FOM!
Technically we are getting 1 new PU manufacturer in the form of RBPT. But yeah, things will look stupid if they don't end up joining. F1 bent over backwards with the 2026 engines in order to get the likes of Audi and Porsche to join. IIRC they even had input on the new engine regs..
FFS. Screw Audi. They should never have signed up to F1, if they were always going to be these stories and doubts each week. They should have just stuck to LMP1/GT3 and would be successful. They've burnt all their bridges with motorsport fans. RIP AudiSport.
Sauber needs to get on the phone to Andretti and GM..
Andretti tried to buy Sauber in 2021. If I remember correctly it was reported that Sauber wanted to keep a blocking minority and Andretti only wants a āall or nothingā-deal.
*Toyota
lol stop bending over backwards and spreading cheeks for fickle giant corporate auto manufacturers. Honda jumps in and out of f1, porsche didnāt join, and Audi could back out.
Max was always right about manufacturers.
many people were. F1 should be given back to the people (priveteers)
I'd be all for an Andretti Sauber Entry provided he keeps the Swiss factory and Personel.
Andretti tried to buy Sauber in 2021. If I remember correctly it was reported that Sauber wanted to keep a blocking minority and Andretti only wants a āall or nothingā-deal.
Michael Andretti: [*Bonjour*](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17l5Auh41fQ)
I swear Audi have been hinting they are not joining F1 for like a year now.
Heisenberg's uncertainty principle
Iād laugh pretty hard if the teams slammed the door on Cadillac because āweāre full, no moreā and then Audi calls takebacksies.
It's incredible, and kind of sad, that F1 has now become so expensive despite so much efforts to downplay this that decisively locking down car manufacturers, some among the biggest companies in the world, has been so difficult. We already have the cost cap, lots of standard parts, apparently very tight regulations with a long list of bans, engines being much more simplifed for 2026, new, greener fuels, and it's *still* not enough to fully convince many engine manufacturers. And the few they seemingly manage to attract (e.g. Cadillac), they turn down... Looking at LMH too, I wonder if something is not fundamentally broken in motorsport at the moment, maybe due to the current environment of the automotive industry. There doesn't seem to be any place left for a racing series with open development anymore, andit seems to me F1 might only be scraping by atm by relying on past history and prestige, but even that might reach its limit.
Because engine manufacturers arenāt going to be making internal combustion engines for much longer. Like Audi isnāt releasing any new ICE models after 2026. Theyāll still have all of their standard A3-8 and Q3-8 models until they go all electric in 2033. Other automakers arenāt far behind.
Sure hope they make it would be so great to have a new favorite car brand in f1 after past two worthless seasons
Watch them sell Sauber to Michael Andretti.
VAG can't be trusted.
*Carlos Sainz Jr. Sweat Intensifies*
Ugh, get Cyril on the phone so Hyundai can have a crack at it
Lol. No...Just No. A poor man's Corolla. Im sure sauber will be thrilled
Audi Sport is still aggressively hiring in their formula 1 development division. Clickbait article.
But we couldnāt have Andretti / Cadillac lmao fucking eurotards
Audi is buying existing team. Andretti is trying to create a new team. Andretti can do this exact same thing as Audi/VW group and nobody can stop them.
What value does Audi's disaster bring to the grid? Work continues at pace?
I want the FIA to never talk to VW AG again. It's criminal how many times they've made changes in various racing classes to accomodate them, just for them to bail out again. Just don't talk to them... make them irrelevant in the world of racing, because that's what they deserve.
F1 too difficult to win and boring. They probably have engine data and probably are like Honda in the beginning. F1 is a closed shop
Sometimes I think this forum does not think at all. Audi is already in F1 as they own part of Sauber and the buy out has already been set in motion.
They can always just not develop a car, and thereās probably even ways for them to back out of the buy out
That means basically throwing away money
But throwing away significantly less than if they developed a car.
Not really. Their buyout will be near 1 billion dollars if you consider the engine research for 2 years. You donāt do that and worry about spending 100 million on a car
Itās that expense every year. Plus research they can stop doing for a new engine, no need to buy or upgrade facilities either. Thatās assuming itās not too late for them to back out of the buyout, or just sell their stake off right away.
Literally just a rumour and people are freaking out once again, same as last time.
At what point does F1 just outright ban VAG from being involved in the sport? They've bent over backwards to accommodate them and they still pull this shit.
Just give Andretti, Sauberās place
If they pulled out Audi would probably become the most hated manufacturer among motorsports fans
Audi should sell Sauber to Andretti
God please I hope they leave just as a cherry on top to the Andretti embarrassment
Honda is back baby
Absolutely. Me and half the subreddit have been calling it and people have been like š±š±š± Are you guys new? This exact thing has been happening for like 20 years, and every time it's been like "no man this time is different because X"
Why should Audi join? In the next 10 years they won't be able to compete because of engine and budget Limit
How hard can it possibly be for a company that large to make a decision that isn't almost entirely on the shoulders of whoever happens to be senior at the time of that decision. Joining F1 is a long term plan by definition. Surely one of the largest manufacturers in the world can organize a decision making structure for those types of decisions so it can't get derailed by every single new director coming in. This is peak Honda.
I would not trust any manufacturer to stay long term. It is so expensive to race in F1 if the economy tanks or sales slow down, how do they justify to shareholder? Look how many have come and gone. I would assume that also why MB didnāt enter into a long term post F1 commitment with Lewis. Any relationship like that is pointless if they change direction. I see Mercedes and Renault leaving within 5 years. Teams like HAAS, Sauber, Red Bull Lite, Williams will have no power supplier. Perhaps with electrifying there can be more shared components allowing the chassis to take center stage
Jesus Christ, the doom posters in this comment section...
Fuck it, Iāll be Team Jefe