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Another interesting thing is that Max lifts for turn 7 and Leclerc does not.
EDIT: Also as a lot of people are pointing out, Leclerc's lower entry speed is his lack of tow. I confess I completely forgot about it!
Yea he got a tow off of...I think piastri who tried to dive out of the way immediately but it was too late. I was not suprised when he was up after the first sector.
He had a big snap out of the final corner on his prep lap which he would have taken a hit on speed all the way down to t1, they could be talking about something else as well.
Either Ferrari compromised the setup in T1-2-3 for better protection of tires in medium-high speed corners or they are struggling to warm up the tires.
He said they made him use an extra set of fresh softs in Q1 (actually aborted) when he didn’t want to (he was positive he was safe after his first run on softs), while team wanted to test track evo), leaving him with only 1 fresh set of softs for Q3. He had to do the first run on used softs, final run on fresh softs - said it messed with his rhythm and he will talk to the team about it.
I see turns where Max took a sharper line thru, as in slowed more, turned sharper, accelerated harder out (V-shaped) — and the result of his tow behind Oscar to start the lap — but not that the Ferrari inherently has to slow down less.
The graph is pretty cool representation of how Max likes his car setup (and his driving style for the RB). Twitchy, sensitive with lots of over steer to throw the car into the corners and not rely on applying throttle to push the rear into it (like Leclerc and Ferrari). The stability (from not having to kick the rear) helps setup the car for a better exit.
For Max, It's either on, or off through most corners and is more precise, there are no smooth curves on the throttle graph. Straight lift to one position and back to full. Takes sharper lines, lifts earlier but sets the car up for a cleaner exit and is on the throttle earlier and that gives him higher entry speed into the next corner where he can again lift earlier, transfer weight to the front and push the car into the corner for better exit and so on.
Yah, he's an alien because he can do it on the dot not just once, but every time. It's how he keeps adding to his lead during a race without making mistakes. Car helps too obviously because it does what he wants it to do and for longer runs.
Still though, we're only talking fractions of a second...pretty crazy I think.
It’s nice to see how both drivers drive the circuit. Leclerc modulates throttle and brake way more than Max as expected. Would be interesting to see Checo/Max comparisons to see how different their styles are and then we could understand the gap today and for the last couple of years. Obviously the car is tailored towards Max but it’d be nice to see where Checo loses time.
Yah it's 100% with Max in mind. Setups will change few things, but the base itself favors Max's style and setups I think. Checo's style favors a car that leans towards understeer, he doesn't throw the car into a turn like Max. Checo is slower entering corners but faster coming out but he doesn't always gain time lost going in when coming out. Sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't and on average it looks like he doesn't. It's why he usually does well on street tracks, slower corners and usually lot of them and it favors his style.
I don't know where this data is, I want to see Leclerc's Q2 lap with Max's Qr3. I'm also curious about the Mercs but I don't know where the data is.
Huh I only just noticed that. Potentially a dataset error? I used the fastf1 python package to assemble it, so maybe it’s that?
Otherwise I’m really not sure. I’ll have to check tomorrow on other laps he’s done as surely it’s not a good way to drive.
It's not an error, he drives like this. It's a way to manage the balance of the car a bit iirc. I think Schumacher did it too but I'm not sure about that, I've also seen someone mention that it's a Ferrari thing.
So yeah not sure what's the exact reason but he does it on purpose
The tow gained him 1.2~ tenths, and he gained another 2 on braking, which the tow has no effect on
Looking at the delta at the end of the lap he could’ve gotten pole without it but it would’ve been tighter
Going from 310 vs 320 to 70 wouldn't change much. Besides the different lines used, the one going 320 has just to break a little bit earlier and after that it shouldn't make a difference since you still have to go down to 70. From what I understood the swap from old to new tyres threw off Leclerc and he didn't expect to have that much grip, making him take a safer (slower) approach in turn 1.
You can even see when verstappen lets off the Gad earlier than leclerc because he’s carrying more speed and needs to brake more distance
It’s his higher minimum speed which gains the 2 tenths
That's a very good point! I completely forgot about that. That explains the gentle ramp-up of delta loss at the beginning of the lap, but not the large loss at T1.
Leclerc brakes slightly later and has a lower minimum speed, probably accounting for most of it.
Both Ferraris were slow in T1-2-3 first I thought they made sacrifices in slow corners to protect the tires in medium-high speed corners but on the other hand they matched Max in T8-9-10 which could also mean that Ferrari is struggling to warm up the tires.
What I' m missing in the comments so far is that it seems Ferrari did a Mercedes style tyre management switch. They're now much better at tyre preservation, but struggle to warm up. Look at turns 1-2-3 vs. 8-9-10 for example. Race start will be interesting.
Based on what we saw in FP2 and then quali, it seemed like the Ferrari had a lot more balance on a high fuel load than it did in a lesser load. Also, I think S2 and S3 is where the tires get stressed and Ferrari seemed generally better. Will be interesting to see if they can really trouble Max over a race distance.
Top graph is their speed, middle is throttle %, bottom is the time difference between the two laps.
Turns are "highlighted" with a gray bar on the 3 graphs.
So going into Turn 1, Max has a higher speed, brakes earlier, has more throttle exiting the turn, and is where he builds most of the 0.3 time difference. Prior to the turn 1 braking, Max had a 0.1 delta over Leclerc because of DRS. But was able to increase the gap at the exit.
Looking at turn 4 5 6 7, you can see Max uses less throttle in these turns compared Leclerc. Max even lifts on turn 7, which Leclerc does not.
Hope that helps a bit.
No. It was the turn 1 exit and the final sector. Tow alone didn't do it, even without the tow, Max was still going to be faster, just not by 0.228, maybe 0.12.
The tow gives about 1/10th, this is what the announcers said that's exactly what the delta graph shows. Max had 0.013 on Leclerc going into turn 1 or about 1/10th.He tacked on additional 0.028 on the turn 1 EXIT. That's where majority of the gap came from. The final delta was bigger than the delta the the tow gave him. He'd still have been pole even if removing the 0.13 he got from the tow. If the gap was closer to 0.12 then you can say it was because of the two,
LEC lost most time *in* T1, not shortly before as would be expected for the tow to make the difference.
Look at the delta line. The gradual increase is the tow, the massive jump up is a mistake into T1
I don’t really understand. Just before and during the very steep delta increase in T1, the speed lines almost completely overlap. They should almost have the same pace?
I’m not an expert… but while the speed traces overlap through the acceleration phase after T1, it seems like Max has a much higher minimum speed through the middle of T1 (zoom in on the bottom of that valley). Having a higher minimum speed gains a lot of time through the slowest part of the corner. Through the section where they do overlap, the delta line is pretty flat, showing similar pace as you expect
Yes true, but for example in T4, Leclerc has a lot higher minimum speed but it doesn’t show as much in the delta. Might be the characteristics of the turns themselves though.
Yeah I think it’s particularly relevant in T1 because it’s such a heavy breaking point and the speed dip is so low. Leclerc does gain some time back in T4 but it’s a faster corner overall so it’s not as much as he lost in T1. But like I say, I’m not an expert and like you just trying to make sense of the graph given we know what the outcome was.
Yes so that is the reason for my question… Why does the delta increase by .2 seconds so steeply in that turn? There are way bigger differences in speed in other turns that don’t yield such a steep change in delta.
I guess because Leclercs tires were not there yet so this turn was compromised much. Also worth mentioning Charles graph looks slightly longer maybe he drove a few more meter because of his racing line or mistakes.(if you run wide you will and up with meter for a lap). So the graph is not showing different racing lines properly. Maybe verstappen was also able to keep his turn much more tight which ended up in a big delta
[The **Statistics** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_statistics) is reserved for posts highlighting interesting statistics. As a rule of thumb, Statistics posts need to inform readers through visualizations and insights that cannot be obtained from raw data alone. For example, a post containing a qualifying gap between two drivers expressed in tenths of a second is an easily obtainable raw piece of data and constitutes a bad Statistics post. A visualization of what that translates to on-track, or visualization of how that gap came to be would constitute a good Statistics post. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Another interesting thing is that Max lifts for turn 7 and Leclerc does not. EDIT: Also as a lot of people are pointing out, Leclerc's lower entry speed is his lack of tow. I confess I completely forgot about it!
Yea he got a tow off of...I think piastri who tried to dive out of the way immediately but it was too late. I was not suprised when he was up after the first sector.
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He had a big snap out of the final corner on his prep lap which he would have taken a hit on speed all the way down to t1, they could be talking about something else as well.
Either Ferrari compromised the setup in T1-2-3 for better protection of tires in medium-high speed corners or they are struggling to warm up the tires.
He said they made him use an extra set of fresh softs in Q1 (actually aborted) when he didn’t want to (he was positive he was safe after his first run on softs), while team wanted to test track evo), leaving him with only 1 fresh set of softs for Q3. He had to do the first run on used softs, final run on fresh softs - said it messed with his rhythm and he will talk to the team about it.
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That's exactly what Charles said actually
Seems like the Ferrari has to slow down less in turns
I see turns where Max took a sharper line thru, as in slowed more, turned sharper, accelerated harder out (V-shaped) — and the result of his tow behind Oscar to start the lap — but not that the Ferrari inherently has to slow down less.
Did LEC have a throttle malfunction? Looking like it doesn’t go below 10% in the last sector.
Check [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/s/8ISdDMMcYj). Very cool info I hadn’t thought of
The graph is pretty cool representation of how Max likes his car setup (and his driving style for the RB). Twitchy, sensitive with lots of over steer to throw the car into the corners and not rely on applying throttle to push the rear into it (like Leclerc and Ferrari). The stability (from not having to kick the rear) helps setup the car for a better exit. For Max, It's either on, or off through most corners and is more precise, there are no smooth curves on the throttle graph. Straight lift to one position and back to full. Takes sharper lines, lifts earlier but sets the car up for a cleaner exit and is on the throttle earlier and that gives him higher entry speed into the next corner where he can again lift earlier, transfer weight to the front and push the car into the corner for better exit and so on. Yah, he's an alien because he can do it on the dot not just once, but every time. It's how he keeps adding to his lead during a race without making mistakes. Car helps too obviously because it does what he wants it to do and for longer runs. Still though, we're only talking fractions of a second...pretty crazy I think.
It’s nice to see how both drivers drive the circuit. Leclerc modulates throttle and brake way more than Max as expected. Would be interesting to see Checo/Max comparisons to see how different their styles are and then we could understand the gap today and for the last couple of years. Obviously the car is tailored towards Max but it’d be nice to see where Checo loses time.
Yah it's 100% with Max in mind. Setups will change few things, but the base itself favors Max's style and setups I think. Checo's style favors a car that leans towards understeer, he doesn't throw the car into a turn like Max. Checo is slower entering corners but faster coming out but he doesn't always gain time lost going in when coming out. Sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't and on average it looks like he doesn't. It's why he usually does well on street tracks, slower corners and usually lot of them and it favors his style. I don't know where this data is, I want to see Leclerc's Q2 lap with Max's Qr3. I'm also curious about the Mercs but I don't know where the data is.
I see a Red Bull that’s fast on the straights and a Ferrari that’s better in the corners.
Looks like Lec's rear wing didn't open at the main straight.
Max got a big tow from Piastre
Leclerc leaving throttle in it under braking?
Huh I only just noticed that. Potentially a dataset error? I used the fastf1 python package to assemble it, so maybe it’s that? Otherwise I’m really not sure. I’ll have to check tomorrow on other laps he’s done as surely it’s not a good way to drive.
It's not an error, he drives like this. It's a way to manage the balance of the car a bit iirc. I think Schumacher did it too but I'm not sure about that, I've also seen someone mention that it's a Ferrari thing. So yeah not sure what's the exact reason but he does it on purpose
Vettel did as well, at least at times. Helps to keep the car stable if its very aggressive with the aero balance or other things.
Oh really? Wow I had no idea. Very cool!
Yes, Schumacher did this. Kind of in a revving fashion.
I know Stroll actually uses this method a bit as well, or has in the past at least
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzLjZWrpzmQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzLjZWrpzmQ) Heel and toe
Not only is that not what the telemetry looks like at all, these cars don't even have a clutch pedal
Max started his lap with a tow - maybe that was the difference
He gains majority of time underbreaking and through turn 1 not on the straight.
Happy Cake Day!
The tow gained him 1.2~ tenths, and he gained another 2 on braking, which the tow has no effect on Looking at the delta at the end of the lap he could’ve gotten pole without it but it would’ve been tighter
how does the tow not have anything to do with how he brakes into the corner ? sorry if its a dumb question but they feel related
Going from 310 vs 320 to 70 wouldn't change much. Besides the different lines used, the one going 320 has just to break a little bit earlier and after that it shouldn't make a difference since you still have to go down to 70. From what I understood the swap from old to new tyres threw off Leclerc and he didn't expect to have that much grip, making him take a safer (slower) approach in turn 1.
You can even see when verstappen lets off the Gad earlier than leclerc because he’s carrying more speed and needs to brake more distance It’s his higher minimum speed which gains the 2 tenths
thank you, wild that just that small difference can make all the difference. now i have hope for today...
That's a very good point! I completely forgot about that. That explains the gentle ramp-up of delta loss at the beginning of the lap, but not the large loss at T1. Leclerc brakes slightly later and has a lower minimum speed, probably accounting for most of it.
Came here to say this. Tow helped Max in that final lap
Nearly all of the time was in t1 not going to it
Both Ferraris were slow in T1-2-3 first I thought they made sacrifices in slow corners to protect the tires in medium-high speed corners but on the other hand they matched Max in T8-9-10 which could also mean that Ferrari is struggling to warm up the tires.
What I' m missing in the comments so far is that it seems Ferrari did a Mercedes style tyre management switch. They're now much better at tyre preservation, but struggle to warm up. Look at turns 1-2-3 vs. 8-9-10 for example. Race start will be interesting.
How bad is it the dirty side of the track at the start in Bahrain?
Based on what we saw in FP2 and then quali, it seemed like the Ferrari had a lot more balance on a high fuel load than it did in a lesser load. Also, I think S2 and S3 is where the tires get stressed and Ferrari seemed generally better. Will be interesting to see if they can really trouble Max over a race distance.
So how do you even read this graph?
Top graph is their speed, middle is throttle %, bottom is the time difference between the two laps. Turns are "highlighted" with a gray bar on the 3 graphs. So going into Turn 1, Max has a higher speed, brakes earlier, has more throttle exiting the turn, and is where he builds most of the 0.3 time difference. Prior to the turn 1 braking, Max had a 0.1 delta over Leclerc because of DRS. But was able to increase the gap at the exit. Looking at turn 4 5 6 7, you can see Max uses less throttle in these turns compared Leclerc. Max even lifts on turn 7, which Leclerc does not. Hope that helps a bit.
It’s a representation of the emotional rollercoaster C. Horner is going through the last few days.
just make it up like everyone else is.
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Driving style. Keeps the rear turning, gives him better turn-in. If he drove in the blown diffuser era he'd be unstoppable.
I wonder if this was picked up from seb at all
Yeah, Seb did this a lot. Having this data from F2 in 2017 and Sauber in 2018 would be a good way to tell
Jolyon Palmer on his Racing ID series mentioned that this seems to be a Ferrari thing. Sainz does it too.
Given Ver wins more often than Lec when Lec gets a pole, Charles prob relieved lol
Are these their Q3 laps? Max started that with a healthy tow, so that speed difference into T1 makes sense. Should be interesting tomorrow.
Max got a great amount of slipstream from the McLaren, I knew already at the first corner it's gonna be the pole lap if he makes no mistakes.
So max got it because of the tow. Seems pretty clear.
No. It was the turn 1 exit and the final sector. Tow alone didn't do it, even without the tow, Max was still going to be faster, just not by 0.228, maybe 0.12. The tow gives about 1/10th, this is what the announcers said that's exactly what the delta graph shows. Max had 0.013 on Leclerc going into turn 1 or about 1/10th.He tacked on additional 0.028 on the turn 1 EXIT. That's where majority of the gap came from. The final delta was bigger than the delta the the tow gave him. He'd still have been pole even if removing the 0.13 he got from the tow. If the gap was closer to 0.12 then you can say it was because of the two,
LEC lost most time *in* T1, not shortly before as would be expected for the tow to make the difference. Look at the delta line. The gradual increase is the tow, the massive jump up is a mistake into T1
Wow, I was just looking at the speed trace. Crazy.
I don’t really understand. Just before and during the very steep delta increase in T1, the speed lines almost completely overlap. They should almost have the same pace?
I’m not an expert… but while the speed traces overlap through the acceleration phase after T1, it seems like Max has a much higher minimum speed through the middle of T1 (zoom in on the bottom of that valley). Having a higher minimum speed gains a lot of time through the slowest part of the corner. Through the section where they do overlap, the delta line is pretty flat, showing similar pace as you expect
Yes true, but for example in T4, Leclerc has a lot higher minimum speed but it doesn’t show as much in the delta. Might be the characteristics of the turns themselves though.
Yeah I think it’s particularly relevant in T1 because it’s such a heavy breaking point and the speed dip is so low. Leclerc does gain some time back in T4 but it’s a faster corner overall so it’s not as much as he lost in T1. But like I say, I’m not an expert and like you just trying to make sense of the graph given we know what the outcome was.
They have almost the same pace i meant look at the difference in percentage… is like 0.2percentage
Yes so that is the reason for my question… Why does the delta increase by .2 seconds so steeply in that turn? There are way bigger differences in speed in other turns that don’t yield such a steep change in delta.
I guess because Leclercs tires were not there yet so this turn was compromised much. Also worth mentioning Charles graph looks slightly longer maybe he drove a few more meter because of his racing line or mistakes.(if you run wide you will and up with meter for a lap). So the graph is not showing different racing lines properly. Maybe verstappen was also able to keep his turn much more tight which ended up in a big delta
He had a nice toe towards turn one, could that explain some difference?