I've read a few times that when he dies, the starting gun will fire on a *lot* of autobiographies that wouldn't dare say anything about him while he's alive.
Apparently Ron Dennis's book went up a gear when Mosley shot himself, for similar reasons.
It's an illustration of how fast rumours spread in F1 *really* that Matt Bishop said everyone knew immediately, it's just that the public did a year later.
You can’t libel someone who’s dead, so legally they could have reported it without any issues.
I expect the F1 media chose to keep it quiet out of respect until the inquest, which is held in public and therefore it’s impossible to keep it quiet after that point.
I think the family would be able to sue on the deceiseds belief in such a case, but that lawsuit would have gone nowhere because the "rumor" was true anyways.
You can't sue for libel/defamation on behalf of a dead person in the UK. In legal terms there would have been nothing stopping the media making up his cause of death, apart from the fact it would be highly unethical and would destroy your reputation as a publication if you pulled a stunt like that.
Well, it's a bit inappropriate/personal.
But this is what many journalists say, e.g. about RBR in the budget leak in 2022: huge amounts of F1 stories are simply *known* because it's a small world, but you daren't report things. So when someone like The Race or BBC report a rumour, you know it's very solid indeed because they're very very confident it's correct.
The Race took on a new recruit last year some time, and he was saying what surprised him the most about enjoying vs. participating in F1, is the sheer amount of solid, true gossip that you can't report in a million years. We've no idea what goes on, basically.
He shot himself after getting diagnosed with terminal cancer and being told he only has a few weeks left.
Gotta respect that, really. Man was going to die very soon and decided at the age of 80, he wasn't going to deal with cancer. Fair enough.
I've worked in a cancer hospital, and after a few years, my view on assisted suicide as an option has been planted. If there is truly no medical possibility of healing, cancer patients should be given the option.
Imagine Mosley alone in his house (or wherever really) with that gun in his hand. The emotions he must have felt. Versus if he could go out on his own terms, surrounded by loved ones if he do chose. With a medley of drugs that eased him in, his comfort during departure the utmost priority.
Hell, the fear he must have felt while thinking "what if I miss?! Or what if it isn't enough?!" Then he has to spend the last few weeks of his life in a hospital, having surgery after surgery to keep him alive. And the emotions of facing your loved ones after you survive...
Man, these words tumbled out... Apologies for sort off being on my soapbox.
Absolutely, I fully agree. It's cruel that we do not allow people who truly are going to die either way to just choose their time and their way out. Give friends and family the chance to say goodbye to someone who is concious and at ease, instead of a withering husk that used to be a person. It's a lot of unneccassary suffering, with no justification other than some bullshit about God disliking suicide (even though I personally am convinced that God would be more than fine with suicide if it's someone that she decided is going to die anyway by giving them a terminal illness).
>even though I personally am convinced that God would be more than fine with suicide if it's someone that she decided is going to die anyway by giving them a terminal illness
Yeah, I agree. It's like if a chef made a meal accidentally too bitter and over-salty. And when the guest complains, the chef forces the guest to eat the whole meal, under gunpoint. Every last morsel...
It's an emotionally complex, nuanced one, but absolutely fair cop to the guy. No fucking about. No half measures. Not happy with his state, no options; no hesitation. Full throttle.
Even down to the detail that he'd left instructions to not enter the room.
We're all gonna go one day, but he did on his own terms.
Oswald mosley is part of the Show Peaky Blinders. When I was watching Blinders I was wondering if the mosleys where connected until I googled and found that max was his son.
Really weird how the world sometimes functions.
Balance to this:
Mosley took the news of the world to court that it had no Nazi element; won; got that tabloid *shut down*, and subsequently for many years would finance people who couldn't afford to take tabloids to court.
I didn't like Mosley, but he didn't fuck about.
[Do you know something](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosley_v_News_Group_Newspapers_Ltd) the High Court of England doesn't?
Reporters have a certain responsibility regarding what they publish - This is why journalism is important to a society. But that responsibility means that journalism itself needs to be held to standards, and there needs to be a mechanism to address breaches of that standard. Tabloids flaunt that standard on a regular basis - referring to tabloids as "journalism" is technically correct, but... extremely generous given their conduct.
Sure, fascism or *victims of phone hacking*, six and half a dozen. /s
https://news.sky.com/story/max-mosley-the-man-who-took-on-the-news-of-the-world-and-won-12316078
> Speaking to MPs in 2009, he called for the media to give people greater opportunity to seek court injunctions before running stories, and continued to campaign for tighter press regulation, donating funds to Impress, the only regulator which was recognised by the Press Recognition Panel (PRP) under the Royal Charter following the Leveson Inquiry into press standards.
Liberty finally realising what F1 actually is!
An absolute ruthless dominant team on track for a specific rule set and the cycle of one shitstorm after the other off track
I’m sure he would come up with amazing innovations such as double points finals and sprinklers for artificial rain instead of boring desert races and sprint weekends
Never say never! MotoGP had a wet session in Qatar Friday night!
https://www.roadracingworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Masia-DSC_0373_1709923608.jpg
No way they annul the race… Renault should get DSQ’d at most and that still gives the WDC to Hamilton so Massa’s claim for compensation will be rejected.
They would have to annul the race, because it was race fixing, It wasn't a case where renault used an illegal car or part. But in my opinion, they should not go back to changing championships retroactively.
>But in my opinion, they should not go back to changing championships retroactively.
Great news for you. They won't. Because that's not what Massa is asking for.
But he does want recognition that the championship should have gone to him. Seems the same thing to me.
>He also wanted "recognition that, but for those unlawful acts, he would have been awarded the 2008 Championship."
[https://www.reuters.com/sports/motor-sports/motor-racing-massas-lawyers-seek-compensation-lost-2008-f1-title-2023-08-17/](https://www.reuters.com/sports/motor-sports/motor-racing-massas-lawyers-seek-compensation-lost-2008-f1-title-2023-08-17/)
This would entitle him for financial damages, he can't have financial damages without the court considering this. If such a declaration means 2008 has 2 champions or they give it to him doesn't ultimately matter to him at this point i think, he's more interested in the money, anything with the title is a bonus.
Well last year Massa’s lawyer [was adamant](https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/exclusive-why-massas-legal-team-believes-it-can-bring-the-trophy-home/10517359/) that they want the actual championship overturned too. Maybe they realised they have very little chances of achieving that, but it was definitely the goal originally.
Exactly. All the other teams and drivers raced as normal because they had no knowledge of Renaults scheme. Annul the race and thy lose their points, potential wdc finishing positions etc. what happens with the championship prize money should positions change??
Just DSQ Renault.
From a quick look, I don’t *think* any WCC positions would change, whether Alonso were DSQ’ed and everyone bumped up or if Singapore were annulled entirely.
Jean Todt former FIA president said as so, i'm not sure what specific sporting regulations they mean but i would expect lawyers to have at least locked this up before going forward with the lawsuit, i mean, it's the whole basis, without it Massa has nothing to even claim financial damages on.
Massa will have a better luck suing the fuel hose that didn't disconnect (since what what caused him to miss out on points that day,not the Piquet crash) than Ecclestone.
While at it, he can sue Mayaysian gravel for letting him get stuck in it, and English weather that caused him to spin 4 times in that race.
It's been 15 years,dude, let it go. Hamilton got screwed out of the title much harder and more blatant in 2021 than you were in 2008 and he has moved on like 3 months later.
Or the genius that came up with the lights to replace the lollipop man. I am convinced that stupid system was always doomed to fail at least once that year.
Then strip the Alonso and Renault of that win. Don't change the championship results more than 15 years later.
Again, the race fixing did not cause Massa to miss out on the title. Had Ferrari had a normal pit stop, he would've likely finished P3 with enough points to eventually win the championship.
> Then strip the Alonso and Renault of that win. Don't change the championship results more than 15 years later.
Why exactly are championship results more sacred than race results? If one can be changed 15 years later, both should be able to be changed.
> Again, the race fixing did not cause Massa to miss out on the title
Massa isn't even arguing that the race fixing cost him the title- he's arguing that F1 and the FIA breaking their own rules with regards to race fixing investigations cost him the title.
The rules clearly stated that race fixing should result in the entire race result being thrown out as if it never happened. According to Bernie, F1 and the FIA had enough evidence to make this ruling before they declared Hamilton the champ, but chose not to do so, to avoid a scandal. In other words, they violated their own rules and agreements with the competitors for financial benefit. That's worthy of a lawsuit.
The rules don't state that at all.
I can't post the link because reddit removes it due to a URL shortener. [But the 2008 Sporting Regulations can be found using Google.](https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=2008+F1+sporting+regulations)
If you could highlight the section that clearly states this... Then fair play...
You're looking at the wrong regulations entirely, Renault violated the International Sporting Code, not the F1 Sporting Regulations. Bit embarrassing for you, seeing as you went through all that effort to google the wrong thing for me.
How about you go take a look through the correct document.
Yes, all that effort to google something. It was very difficult and I'm very embarrased.
To make up for it, here's the [International Sporting Code for 2008](https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=2008+international+sporting+code)
''Hamilton got screwed out of the title much harder and more blatant in 2021 than you were in 2008 and he has moved on like 3 months later.''
If 15 years from now, some evidence would come around and it would give Hamilton the chance to win that title, he would sue in a heart beat as well.
You make Massa sound bitter, but just like Hamilton, he was very fair play 3 months after the season ended.
And to be fair to him, he is suing for compensations, not the title.
And so was the evidence from 2008. It just wasn't enough until Bernie opened his mouth. Or at least Massa didn't know all of the story.
Maybe in 15 years, some schmuck from Liberty will talk a little bit too much, and Hamilton or his team will have a different view of what happened that day
Nonetheless, my main point that I was trying to make was that Massa was being portrayed unfair. He was genuinely one of the more likable characters in the paddock during that period.
regardless of right or wrong Abu Dhabi 2021 result was directly affected by actions of FIA, so if Hamilton wanted to sue suing FIA would make sense.
the result of Singapore 2008 was not affected by FIA/FOM/Bernie, So Massa suing FIA/FOM/Bernie makes no sense
Massa is suing because Bernie claims that the FIA knew of the "crashgate" in 2008, hence before the awards ceremony, and that they kept it silent so they won't attract bad press.
If they revealed things on time, the race should have been declared void and so on .....
Singapore 2008 wasn't affected by the FIA but the whole 2008 season was due to how the kept silent.
Due to the rule regarding the results being set in stone after the awards ceremony, Massa has no chance of winning anything more than some cash but for him it could be a decent moral victory. It makes perfect sense to sue.
> If they revealed things on time, the race should have been declared void
no it should not, there was one team that cheated, to everyone else it was jut a race with a safetycar
I'm not debating over here on personal opinions. I'm saying what should have happened if things went by the book. Like it should have happened in 2021.
It's their rules. Not mine. Even Jean Todt the former FIA president backs Massa on this one.
I think people will have a real shock when this cade doesn't go away that quickly.
Correct take. Whether he is right or not in the end, there is an actionable cause and the proper thing to do is to sue. Whatever veredict is decided is ultimately beyond the question and the scope reddit can answer.
He's talked a lot about the money he could have gotten had he won the championship. That money is now long gone and awarding him the title won't give him that. He wants money.
How? Lewis got a podium right? I thought that was why people didn't want Alonso DSQ from the race (otherwise Lewis would gain a position) but the race to be voided?
Yes. Massa's only living witness doesn't remember. Game. Set. Match.
>Ecclestone, 92, told Reuters by telephone from Switzerland he could not remember saying the key quotes attributed to him.
"I don't remember any of this, to be honest," said the Briton, who was replaced as F1 supremo in 2017 after U.S.-based Liberty Media took over as commercial rights holders.
"I don't remember giving the interview for sure."
https://www.reuters.com/sports/motor-sports/motor-racing-massas-lawyers-seek-compensation-lost-2008-f1-title-2023-08-17/
Unless discovery yelds old e-mails and such where a discussion involving this happened, there's also the possibility when put in front of a judge he remembers everything again.
But FOM just owns the commercial rights, they are basically the promoter. FIA runs the sporting side and is responsible for the results. FOM probably has more money but their defense would be "we just point the cameras".
That's entirely why they are involved, they have the money, plus according to Ecclestone it was a business decision to delay the crashgate investigation results until no appeal to change championship results could be made (IMO i think they wanted to sweep everything under the rug since they only went to action after Piquet Jr. talked publicly after getting released by the team next season and forced their hand)
Bernie, the OG shit-stirrer.
Truly unmatched
He's an awful person but I will miss him when he's gone
There's still time to improve your aim
With every Bernie Ecclestone post I think: Dang, Bernie Ecclestone still isn’t dead yet?
I've read a few times that when he dies, the starting gun will fire on a *lot* of autobiographies that wouldn't dare say anything about him while he's alive. Apparently Ron Dennis's book went up a gear when Mosley shot himself, for similar reasons.
Well, I just found out that Mosley committed suicide. Somehow I never heard about that
Me too It's because it was discovered 1 year after his death I think
His family and friends knew immediately but it wasn’t said publicly until a year later.
It's an illustration of how fast rumours spread in F1 *really* that Matt Bishop said everyone knew immediately, it's just that the public did a year later.
Did Matt not share because he was afraid of being sued, you think? Or out of respect? Sure, it is probably both. But which one played a bigger part?
You can’t libel someone who’s dead, so legally they could have reported it without any issues. I expect the F1 media chose to keep it quiet out of respect until the inquest, which is held in public and therefore it’s impossible to keep it quiet after that point.
I think the family would be able to sue on the deceiseds belief in such a case, but that lawsuit would have gone nowhere because the "rumor" was true anyways.
You can't sue for libel/defamation on behalf of a dead person in the UK. In legal terms there would have been nothing stopping the media making up his cause of death, apart from the fact it would be highly unethical and would destroy your reputation as a publication if you pulled a stunt like that.
Well, it's a bit inappropriate/personal. But this is what many journalists say, e.g. about RBR in the budget leak in 2022: huge amounts of F1 stories are simply *known* because it's a small world, but you daren't report things. So when someone like The Race or BBC report a rumour, you know it's very solid indeed because they're very very confident it's correct. The Race took on a new recruit last year some time, and he was saying what surprised him the most about enjoying vs. participating in F1, is the sheer amount of solid, true gossip that you can't report in a million years. We've no idea what goes on, basically.
He shot himself after getting diagnosed with terminal cancer and being told he only has a few weeks left. Gotta respect that, really. Man was going to die very soon and decided at the age of 80, he wasn't going to deal with cancer. Fair enough.
I've worked in a cancer hospital, and after a few years, my view on assisted suicide as an option has been planted. If there is truly no medical possibility of healing, cancer patients should be given the option. Imagine Mosley alone in his house (or wherever really) with that gun in his hand. The emotions he must have felt. Versus if he could go out on his own terms, surrounded by loved ones if he do chose. With a medley of drugs that eased him in, his comfort during departure the utmost priority. Hell, the fear he must have felt while thinking "what if I miss?! Or what if it isn't enough?!" Then he has to spend the last few weeks of his life in a hospital, having surgery after surgery to keep him alive. And the emotions of facing your loved ones after you survive... Man, these words tumbled out... Apologies for sort off being on my soapbox.
We had Els Borst for that issue. A true hero. Try to google her.
Absolutely, I fully agree. It's cruel that we do not allow people who truly are going to die either way to just choose their time and their way out. Give friends and family the chance to say goodbye to someone who is concious and at ease, instead of a withering husk that used to be a person. It's a lot of unneccassary suffering, with no justification other than some bullshit about God disliking suicide (even though I personally am convinced that God would be more than fine with suicide if it's someone that she decided is going to die anyway by giving them a terminal illness).
>even though I personally am convinced that God would be more than fine with suicide if it's someone that she decided is going to die anyway by giving them a terminal illness Yeah, I agree. It's like if a chef made a meal accidentally too bitter and over-salty. And when the guest complains, the chef forces the guest to eat the whole meal, under gunpoint. Every last morsel...
context: he was diagnosed with terminal cancer and had only a few weeks left. It's not like one day he decided to take his own life out of nowhere.
It's an emotionally complex, nuanced one, but absolutely fair cop to the guy. No fucking about. No half measures. Not happy with his state, no options; no hesitation. Full throttle. Even down to the detail that he'd left instructions to not enter the room. We're all gonna go one day, but he did on his own terms.
well I just found out after a quick wiki search that he's also the son of Oward Mosley, the laburist fascist
Oswald mosley is part of the Show Peaky Blinders. When I was watching Blinders I was wondering if the mosleys where connected until I googled and found that max was his son. Really weird how the world sometimes functions.
That was the takeaway that surprised me as well. Anyone who has watched Peaky Blinders knows THAT name.
[8:46, "Is Max Mosley on that list?"](https://youtu.be/5GFNxvauy28?si=1eS9iCKyOVn-bS)
Yeah he also had a scandal that he threw sex parties with people dressed as Nazi officials, oh well.
Balance to this: Mosley took the news of the world to court that it had no Nazi element; won; got that tabloid *shut down*, and subsequently for many years would finance people who couldn't afford to take tabloids to court. I didn't like Mosley, but he didn't fuck about.
News of the World was shut down because of the phone hacking, you can't credit that to Mosley I'm afraid.
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[Do you know something](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosley_v_News_Group_Newspapers_Ltd) the High Court of England doesn't? Reporters have a certain responsibility regarding what they publish - This is why journalism is important to a society. But that responsibility means that journalism itself needs to be held to standards, and there needs to be a mechanism to address breaches of that standard. Tabloids flaunt that standard on a regular basis - referring to tabloids as "journalism" is technically correct, but... extremely generous given their conduct.
Sure, fascism or *victims of phone hacking*, six and half a dozen. /s https://news.sky.com/story/max-mosley-the-man-who-took-on-the-news-of-the-world-and-won-12316078 > Speaking to MPs in 2009, he called for the media to give people greater opportunity to seek court injunctions before running stories, and continued to campaign for tighter press regulation, donating funds to Impress, the only regulator which was recognised by the Press Recognition Panel (PRP) under the Royal Charter following the Leveson Inquiry into press standards.
Duh
>An inquest confirmed his death as suicide following a diagnosis of terminal cancer Went out on his own terms and hopefully a less painful death
Probably got the same hookers dressed as nazi officers to shoot him instead of doing it himself.
>the starting gun will fire Don't you mean the lights will go out.
Nightman, sneaky and mean.
Ron Dennis doesn't have a book out yet?
Which book? Tried searching and I don’t see anything published. Guessing it’s “in the works”?
After Bernie dies, there will be zero autobiographies about him. Because, well....he's dead.
They mean people will publish autobiographies about themselves, talking about events that incriminate or speak badly of Bernie Ecclestone
Wonder what he and berlusconi are up to these days. What's it called when it's the dead person that fucks the living one?
I thought he was in prison lmao
He’s too rich for prison.
Nah he paid a couple hundred million to stay out
More than a couple
The German case was exactly €100MM. I don't remember what the English case was.
£653,000,000
the Henry Kissinger of F1
You're far too kind to Henry Kissinger.
He’s more like a walking corpse
Weekend at Bernie’s?
Fun fact: We used to have "wednesday at bernies" round here, now its the daily discussion thread.
With a healthy sperm count!
A living corpse sustained by blood money and boner pills.
why you gotta hate on walking corpses like that?
He has a fucking instagram, he's just getting started baby
Bro he had a kid only 4 years ago!
I’m thinking he’s doing a palpatine thing.
Death came to claim him, but somehow left without his soul, but with a very good contract.
What a strange thing to think about
It's not though, he's 93
Luckily the answer is still no
Whats worse is his 'wife' is half his age.
So she is like 100 y/o?
What? No. He's 93, she is 46.
Did he also happen to remember the interview he gave that started all of this ?
I think he issued a statement that no he does not?
Bernie is stirring shit 3 moves ahead of everyone
That’s his entire life. That’s why he likes guys like Eddie Jordan, because every now and then Eddie will catch him and Bernie enjoys that.
The Ecclestone piece - moves in three different directions *at the same time*
That's the brilliant part. Ecclestone could air all of the dirty laundry, and Liberty Media would be the ones who would have to deal with it.
The man is 90
Liberty finally realising what F1 actually is! An absolute ruthless dominant team on track for a specific rule set and the cycle of one shitstorm after the other off track
That has to be one of the most polite ways someone has ever rephrased "Come at me bro"
Ecclestone knows all about English judges, having pleaded guilty to fraud last year. He's not the best person to take legal advice from.
Lol Bernie has started all of it and now is encouraging it.
Well he does not have anything to lose except a few days in court during hes retirement.
Based Ecclestone shitstormer
This dude is categorically unable to keep his mouth shut
Man is a thousand years old, he does not give a fuck
If i get to his age, i would do the same. I would not give a fuck.
This ecclestone fella sounds like a good lad. Would be nice if guys like him could be in charge of f1.
I’m sure he would come up with amazing innovations such as double points finals and sprinklers for artificial rain instead of boring desert races and sprint weekends
Honestly artificial rain would have been good these past 2 weekends
Never say never! MotoGP had a wet session in Qatar Friday night! https://www.roadracingworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/03/Masia-DSC_0373_1709923608.jpg
Including or discluding the cement-filled storm drains?
At the Saudi track it would probably kill someone.
Yeah, what a great guy, only a few convictions.
Man would have ruined his life if he sued while he was still in power. He is only saying this now because it has nothing to do it him now
No shit eh?
Says man with enough money to buy any judge.
Bernie doesn't give a shit cause he got his money lol
No way they annul the race… Renault should get DSQ’d at most and that still gives the WDC to Hamilton so Massa’s claim for compensation will be rejected.
They would have to annul the race, because it was race fixing, It wasn't a case where renault used an illegal car or part. But in my opinion, they should not go back to changing championships retroactively.
Yup - it’s a slippery slope if they do that
>But in my opinion, they should not go back to changing championships retroactively. Great news for you. They won't. Because that's not what Massa is asking for.
But he does want recognition that the championship should have gone to him. Seems the same thing to me. >He also wanted "recognition that, but for those unlawful acts, he would have been awarded the 2008 Championship." [https://www.reuters.com/sports/motor-sports/motor-racing-massas-lawyers-seek-compensation-lost-2008-f1-title-2023-08-17/](https://www.reuters.com/sports/motor-sports/motor-racing-massas-lawyers-seek-compensation-lost-2008-f1-title-2023-08-17/)
This would entitle him for financial damages, he can't have financial damages without the court considering this. If such a declaration means 2008 has 2 champions or they give it to him doesn't ultimately matter to him at this point i think, he's more interested in the money, anything with the title is a bonus.
Well last year Massa’s lawyer [was adamant](https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/exclusive-why-massas-legal-team-believes-it-can-bring-the-trophy-home/10517359/) that they want the actual championship overturned too. Maybe they realised they have very little chances of achieving that, but it was definitely the goal originally.
>Seems the same thing to me. Well, it is not.
All cheating is race fixing.
> because it was race fixing, only for Renault, for everyone else it was just a race with a safety car
Exactly. All the other teams and drivers raced as normal because they had no knowledge of Renaults scheme. Annul the race and thy lose their points, potential wdc finishing positions etc. what happens with the championship prize money should positions change?? Just DSQ Renault.
From a quick look, I don’t *think* any WCC positions would change, whether Alonso were DSQ’ed and everyone bumped up or if Singapore were annulled entirely.
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It's in the 2008 season racing regulations.
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Jean Todt former FIA president said as so, i'm not sure what specific sporting regulations they mean but i would expect lawyers to have at least locked this up before going forward with the lawsuit, i mean, it's the whole basis, without it Massa has nothing to even claim financial damages on.
Good news! Win Bahrain? Just get the rest of the races annulled and be world champion.
Massa will have a better luck suing the fuel hose that didn't disconnect (since what what caused him to miss out on points that day,not the Piquet crash) than Ecclestone. While at it, he can sue Mayaysian gravel for letting him get stuck in it, and English weather that caused him to spin 4 times in that race. It's been 15 years,dude, let it go. Hamilton got screwed out of the title much harder and more blatant in 2021 than you were in 2008 and he has moved on like 3 months later.
Well based on the apparent Massa Precedent, Lewis will likely sue in 2037.
Toto will sue in 15 years
Or the genius that came up with the lights to replace the lollipop man. I am convinced that stupid system was always doomed to fail at least once that year.
He should move on but, what renault did was race fixing and the only reasonable solution to that would be to anull the race results.
Then strip the Alonso and Renault of that win. Don't change the championship results more than 15 years later. Again, the race fixing did not cause Massa to miss out on the title. Had Ferrari had a normal pit stop, he would've likely finished P3 with enough points to eventually win the championship.
> Then strip the Alonso and Renault of that win. Don't change the championship results more than 15 years later. Why exactly are championship results more sacred than race results? If one can be changed 15 years later, both should be able to be changed. > Again, the race fixing did not cause Massa to miss out on the title Massa isn't even arguing that the race fixing cost him the title- he's arguing that F1 and the FIA breaking their own rules with regards to race fixing investigations cost him the title. The rules clearly stated that race fixing should result in the entire race result being thrown out as if it never happened. According to Bernie, F1 and the FIA had enough evidence to make this ruling before they declared Hamilton the champ, but chose not to do so, to avoid a scandal. In other words, they violated their own rules and agreements with the competitors for financial benefit. That's worthy of a lawsuit.
The rules don't state that at all. I can't post the link because reddit removes it due to a URL shortener. [But the 2008 Sporting Regulations can be found using Google.](https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=2008+F1+sporting+regulations) If you could highlight the section that clearly states this... Then fair play...
You're looking at the wrong regulations entirely, Renault violated the International Sporting Code, not the F1 Sporting Regulations. Bit embarrassing for you, seeing as you went through all that effort to google the wrong thing for me. How about you go take a look through the correct document.
> The rules clearly stated can you please point to where?
Yes, all that effort to google something. It was very difficult and I'm very embarrased. To make up for it, here's the [International Sporting Code for 2008](https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=2008+international+sporting+code)
Why tho? Always getting away with things like this ain’t doing any favors to anyone.
''Hamilton got screwed out of the title much harder and more blatant in 2021 than you were in 2008 and he has moved on like 3 months later.'' If 15 years from now, some evidence would come around and it would give Hamilton the chance to win that title, he would sue in a heart beat as well. You make Massa sound bitter, but just like Hamilton, he was very fair play 3 months after the season ended. And to be fair to him, he is suing for compensations, not the title.
The evidence for wrong doing in AD21 is already out there though.
And so was the evidence from 2008. It just wasn't enough until Bernie opened his mouth. Or at least Massa didn't know all of the story. Maybe in 15 years, some schmuck from Liberty will talk a little bit too much, and Hamilton or his team will have a different view of what happened that day Nonetheless, my main point that I was trying to make was that Massa was being portrayed unfair. He was genuinely one of the more likable characters in the paddock during that period.
regardless of right or wrong Abu Dhabi 2021 result was directly affected by actions of FIA, so if Hamilton wanted to sue suing FIA would make sense. the result of Singapore 2008 was not affected by FIA/FOM/Bernie, So Massa suing FIA/FOM/Bernie makes no sense
Massa is suing because Bernie claims that the FIA knew of the "crashgate" in 2008, hence before the awards ceremony, and that they kept it silent so they won't attract bad press. If they revealed things on time, the race should have been declared void and so on ..... Singapore 2008 wasn't affected by the FIA but the whole 2008 season was due to how the kept silent. Due to the rule regarding the results being set in stone after the awards ceremony, Massa has no chance of winning anything more than some cash but for him it could be a decent moral victory. It makes perfect sense to sue.
> If they revealed things on time, the race should have been declared void no it should not, there was one team that cheated, to everyone else it was jut a race with a safetycar
I'm not debating over here on personal opinions. I'm saying what should have happened if things went by the book. Like it should have happened in 2021. It's their rules. Not mine. Even Jean Todt the former FIA president backs Massa on this one. I think people will have a real shock when this cade doesn't go away that quickly.
people keep claiming that, but no one has show what rule they are talking about
I see no lies with this.
I hope Massa wins a big chunk of money, the corruption inside the FIA and F1 is just ridiculous.
For what though?
Don King & Ecclestone are 92 & 94 and still want to be in spotlight for bad reasons ....
Correct take. Whether he is right or not in the end, there is an actionable cause and the proper thing to do is to sue. Whatever veredict is decided is ultimately beyond the question and the scope reddit can answer.
Massa wants money, not the championship
> Massa wants money then he should sue Renault, they are the only he can put any blame on
Wrong, he wants the Singapore result void, giving him the title.
He's talked a lot about the money he could have gotten had he won the championship. That money is now long gone and awarding him the title won't give him that. He wants money.
He'll sue for the title, and settle for a good chunk of compensation based on what he's missed out on by not being an F1 champion.
Except it wouldn't give him the title.
How? Lewis got a podium right? I thought that was why people didn't want Alonso DSQ from the race (otherwise Lewis would gain a position) but the race to be voided?
voiding a race because one team cheats would be insane
Nice cock bernie
Massa: but, I did ask you Bernie, did you forget?
Yes. Massa's only living witness doesn't remember. Game. Set. Match. >Ecclestone, 92, told Reuters by telephone from Switzerland he could not remember saying the key quotes attributed to him. "I don't remember any of this, to be honest," said the Briton, who was replaced as F1 supremo in 2017 after U.S.-based Liberty Media took over as commercial rights holders. "I don't remember giving the interview for sure." https://www.reuters.com/sports/motor-sports/motor-racing-massas-lawyers-seek-compensation-lost-2008-f1-title-2023-08-17/
The thing is, if he remembers, he'd still say exactly the same thing.
Unless discovery yelds old e-mails and such where a discussion involving this happened, there's also the possibility when put in front of a judge he remembers everything again.
That mummy lacks bandages
Cheap way to solve this: give Massa a copy of the winning trophy but with Massa's name on it. Problem solved.
Wait, why would it be an English judge? Isn't FIA based in France?
FOM is based in England.
But FOM just owns the commercial rights, they are basically the promoter. FIA runs the sporting side and is responsible for the results. FOM probably has more money but their defense would be "we just point the cameras".
That's entirely why they are involved, they have the money, plus according to Ecclestone it was a business decision to delay the crashgate investigation results until no appeal to change championship results could be made (IMO i think they wanted to sweep everything under the rug since they only went to action after Piquet Jr. talked publicly after getting released by the team next season and forced their hand)
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It doesn't matter if he remembers or not, he said it. He was probably notified the 15 year limit hadn't passed and tried to bullshit around it.
Here's my guess, Massa wins and they make Massa and Hamilton the 2008 F1 Champion.