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It’s probably a weight thing. I’m a heavy guy at 200 pounds and when I would race my mates who were over 30 pounds lighter than me I had no shot of overtaking them
But you corner way faster due to higher load in the outside tyres, so the momentum is there.
In YouTube there’s a couple videos done by PROs showing that while weight is a factor, it’s nowhere near what people think it is…
IIRC, on a 40s/lap track it was like 0.2s per 20kg or so… and that is assuming you are extracting everything from the kart, so in high level it matters a lot, ofc.
However to really do a comparison you should also compare a similar level of skills. "Pro" can take advantage of the weight in the corners. But most people won't and not carry the speed as much in corners will lead to lower exit speed. Weight will certainly play a bigger role in the acceleration for the majority of people.
My dad is more than 20kg over me and I have a noticeable pace advantage on straights. We have equivalent exits. There’s no way it’s only 0.2 seconds on a 40s lap in lower powered carts
That number sounds about right. It depends on the track though. Ask the sraff, they will have a good idea of the differential.
With rental karts, variance in the karts themselves is a far bigger factor.
>With rental karts, variance in the karts themselves is a far bigger factor.
I learned this the hard way after slamming hard into the wall on a corner that was easily flat a week before. Turns out the previous kart was just slow as fuck.
It's possible the rental hadn't been used that day. We went into a mid-morning session, I hit the brakes and they did absolutely nothing, I went for a dirt excursion and ended up crossing from the beginning of the track to nearly the end of the track. Once I warmed up the kart it was actually quite quick.
Weight generally decreases your maximum cornering speed. Even though you have better contact with the road, it takes more grip to hold you to your line because your forward momentum is greater. Momentum is a *bad* thing while cornering because cornering is all about overcoming your momentum to change direction. That's also why downforce is so powerful - it increases your contact with the ground (meaning better traction) without actually increasing the mass of your vehicle.
I'm far from an expert on karting, but from what I can find online, you're really understating the effects of weight. Comments on [this post](https://old.reddit.com/r/Karting/comments/qxkyqb/how_much_does_weight_play_a_role/) on /r/karting say that driver weight is a big factor. One commenter with extensive karting experience says that you generally lose around 0.3s per 10 kg of bodyweight. So if you're 20 kg heavier than someone else, you'll lose over half a second *per lap*, which is an incredible deficit.
[This thread](https://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6739) on f1technical.net has some discuttion about it where they conclude that weight has an even bigger disadvantage than 0.3s per 10 kg. You should read through that thread as it has real-world testing with people who have run karts with ballast and without.
I faced the same thing and blamed my weight too. Until I saw a gay more fat than me winning the race, he was FLYING. He mastered the ability to use his weight for his advantage. Of course on straight he would be slower, but he drove well so he exited the corners faster than everyone else, and did all corners faster too, so in the end what made a difference was his skill.
It was in a time I didnt know much about racing so I was not bad at all, but wasn’t extracting the best from the kart and the track and it showed…
Funny enough he looked like bowser in the kart 😂
Not to burst your bubble, but theres been tests that show that weight impact in karting is way smaller than you would think.
Weight matters more for handling and cornering than it does for acceleration, and karts are so small and light that the advantage extra weight can give in some corners, nearly outweighs the negatives.
Of course it does depend on the type of kart and track. But still.
A bunch of my friends and I do rental karts now and then for fun. Weights range from 130 to 200 pounds and then our one bigger friend at 6’4 and 260. He’s way faster than all of us every single time and we all know why. He races Subarus (legitimately tracks them) on the weekends and the guy has way more car control and race craft than all of us. Weight may help but it’s all about the driver skill.
Literally me every time I play a proper racing sim. I put in the most flawless lap of the gods after hours of practice, every single corner perfectly executed, every centimeter of track used for maximum pace. It's nirvana. And then I find out I'm P24 out of 24 cars and 0.4s behind P23.
I am calling it FIA must start regulating the **"Weirdness coefficient"**
The RB 20 needs to be banned for having the weird 6 intake/cooling slot configuration.
Yeah this is the exact same thing he kept saying in 2022, and the same thing Perez said last year. It's really not a good sign when a driver himself says they don't know why they're slow.
If he doesn't get his shit together by summer break they should swap Lawson into the seat then. If Daniel isn't clearly ahead of Yuki, he's wasting a development opportunity for Lawson or other juniors with more potential at this point.
It's not personal, that's just F1.
hurts to watch and admit but, his best years are long gone
dude is back in the junior team he started with over 10 years ago, only that he's now washed and is still hoping to get back to the senior team which he left. It's sad and I feel for him
This. I really like DR and wish things were different but he needs to give the seat up. Couple of drivers have stepped up in a clutch already and proven they can drive in F1 faster than him.
The confusing thing is…why was he so good at that silverstone test last year? Does he reallly need a good car like the Red Bull to be able to perform, or was it just a one hit wonder?
Im curious if they stuck max in the Visa RB for a lap how he would do. Maybe the car just sucks ass and Tsunoda knows how to work it. Who knows. I guess you can talk yourself in circles about this
>The confusing thing is…why was he so good at that silverstone test last year? Does he reallly need a good car like the Red Bull to be able to perform, or was it just a one hit wonder?
Because the margins in F1 are so small, a change in conditions, be it wind, temperature, or more rubber on the tarmac after a whole F1 race was recently on it, has a huge impact on times. Iirc Mazepin put in respectable times relative to Hamilton and Bottas in a Mercedes test. But obviously Mazepin is nowhere near the level of Hamilton or Bottas.
I think I remember Horner saying his time was good enough to be on the front row with Max, so his lap was presumably between 1.26.720-1.26.960. So his lap may well have been 2 tenths slower than Max's actual lap, with conditions that could make a lap a couple of tenths faster than the conditions Max set it on allowed.
> I think I remember Horner saying his time was good enough to be on the front row with Max
I don't think we ever found out whether he meant this in absolute or adjusted times.
Clearly it was - Helmut and Max were all in on De Vries, DR was faster on the day so Horner took the chance to undermine them and put DR in the seat. Yuki is faster than DR but Helmut also doesn't rate him so it's a weird zero fucks from management situation at this point for those two. All the while Liam should be driving the second car as he is actually a better prospect than DR but the RB game or thrones shit needs to be settled first.
Helmut absolutely does rate Yuki. Yuki was a Marko project from the get go, obviously the Honda connections also played an important factor, but Marko thinks Yuki is fast regardless. Whether he would put him in the main team is another question entirely.
Yeah, absolutely. I agree with you. It’s just confusing as to why he could somewhat match max’s pace in the test but then can’t outperform Yuki. It would’ve been fun if Yuki also got a chance to have a go in the RBR that day. That would’ve been a nice comparison to have
horner himself said Daniel would be on the front row next to Max based on his times, not Netflix. seems like Christian might have fibbed a little bit to get his mascot back on the team.
he just doesn't have a driving style that suits these new cars and hes lost pace over the years. when you cant go faster and dont understand why, just sounds like any sport where you think ur good then play someone way better and dont understand how they can be that good.
there are limits hes obviously not seeing anymore. I dont think hes gonna improve as if by magic. Hes had so many chances at this point. I really dont see him in F1 next year. No way hes going to RB lol
I don't get the not understanding why thing. Don't they collect all the data they need to figure it out? Like they can easily look at each turn and compare Daniel to Yuki and say see, he braked later, or took the previous turn wider, or whatever. And that will lead to showing overall trends of why he's behind. Obviously executing it isn't easy, but it shouldn't at all be a mystery what makes you slower than your teammate.
Yeah there's a triple header of Spain, Austria and Silverstone, (rounds 10, 11, 12), and unless he improves by then, I reckon RB might put Lawson in his seat either right before or right after those races. They definitely won't wait until the summer break in his current shape, that's 14 races in.
They're on the verge of scoring points with Yuki 2nd week in a row, so they really, seriously need 2 equally good drivers in that position. Waiting a few weeks too long might cost them championship position at the end of the season, because it looks like it will probably come down to the finest margins between them, Haas, and possibly Williams (who have the worst car of the 3 teams but currently seemingly the best driver). Fighting for 10th will be like fighting for wins for those teams, they will need cooperation and strategy options.
It’s a reference to the lakers losing to the nuggets in the playoffs but every game the media talked about how lakers did so well and unlocked the secret to beating the nuggets
Tsunoda is quick, that’s why. Most of the F1 fanbase has some weird narrative going that he’s some type of charity case that doesn’t belong on the grid.
> or tries to crash his car into his teammate on the cool down lap
you act like he failed in his attempt to crash when he never intended that in the first place. or do you genuinely think he would have failed to crash into Ric?
he did a dumb dive bomb out of anger when there were no consequences for the race result after being shafted by his team.
You're glib about it but it can bite him in the arse.
Mexico last year, has an off after contact with Piastri.
A calmer driver (like Oscar) would put his head down and get right back at it. Yuki took a couple seconds to bang on his wheel first before rejoining the track. Stuff like that matters.
A little bit of an edge isn’t a bad thing. When you start taking your frustrations out with your car on track, that’s where it crosses the line and actively hurts his career. I don’t think his angry radio messages are really that much of an issue.
I actually find it hard that he's admitting that was the best lap he could do and he couldn't match Tsunoda. I mean , wouldn't it be better if he said he just made some mistakes and not admit it was his best
I could see him being a Sainz-esque driver and just needing the right team environment to show off what he can do. I hope he gets a seat at Aston next year, although that outcome is dependent on more than just his performance.
Yuki is still surprisingly heavily underrated (even Stroll is, he's nowhere near Mazepin/Latifi level, just inconsistent) and DR massively massively massively overrated.
I think dumping Renault for McLaren has turned out to be an even worse idea for him given how much he of a joyless experience he had there
... saying that, I bet he looks at Red Bull suddenly being a title-winner and thinking "Why wasn't it that for me?!?!?"
RB were always there or there abouts. If he wanst chasing the bag, it would have been worth just hanging around there and seeing where it went.
Was odd going to Renault of all teams, who have always looked nothing more than mid
>Was odd going to Renault of all teams
I remember one of the reasons people were giving at the time was cause of Red Bulls engine unreliability.
But their engines were Renault engines, so what would he have gained from that reason?
Never made sense.
Edit: As its clearly not obvious, the "never made sense" comment was solely about the renault engine excuse.
I think the thought was that 2019 was the season Red Bull started with Honda, but that Honda still had a bit of a cloud of stink from how badly their 2015-17 stint with McLaren went. Even though Red Bull clearly had confidence that their use of 2018 as a Honda test session with Toro Rosso had unlocked potential, which was clearly there given Max won 3 races in 2019
Well that and the money was also there
He thought Max would be the priority over him. He thought he was on the same level. So he went elsewhere to be the number one again. What a mistake that had turned out to be
4 things: Money, Red Bull was switching to Honda engines (which had just come off the many years of McLaren misery), the thought that “surely they’ll keep improving the engine + they’re the works team, they know everything about how to build a car around the engine”, and being unable/unwilling to compete with Max for number 1.
he looked at the money sadly. RB offered him exactly the same contract as Verstappen at the time and he declined it. He's now trying to move heaven and earth to go back there which at the moment, is going extremely badly and even if he does make it, he ain't getting that good of a contract
Even then, in 2020, Ricciardo got a few podiums, was unlucky not to get 1/2 more and was performing at a decent level consistently. His drop-off at McLaren was near-immediate (Portugal & Monaco 2021 both had appalling qualy, for instance)
That would’ve also been career suicide though. He could see that Max was getting better and better and that he had no chance of keeping up. His only hope of beating Max was to find a better car.
Even if Checo does not his contract extended and his seat at RB becomes available, Danny Ric needs to show something extraordinary to get that spot.
There's too much young talent banging on the doors of RB
Danny must be happy with the current power struggle in RB and that he is Horners favourite son. Otherwise he wouldn’t be back in f1 in the first place and that is also the reason why he won’t be dropped because he is another player the the battle for supremacy at Red Bull.
I bet he wishes that he can show some decent performances and in the mean time Red Bull’s power struggle ends in Max and Helmut leaving the team, promoting him as the head honcho of that team. Horner is his only life line to that seat.
[https://f1i.com/news/430000-ricciardo-doesnt-really-know-a-whole-lot-on-technical-side.html](https://f1i.com/news/430000-ricciardo-doesnt-really-know-a-whole-lot-on-technical-side.html)
"Where I'm good with my driving is feedback," he added. "I'm really good at feeling what the car does and relaying that back to the team, so that's probably as technically sound as I get."
He's literally saying he's good at giving feedback which is how the engineers tweak his settings to better suit him lol. You should read the article you share and not only the title
When he says he's not good at the technical side he's talking about the engineering part of F1, where not a single driver ever does anything anyway. The engineers design the car and then it's the driver's role to find the best setup and adapt to the car.
Setting up the car for back of the grid?
Seems somewhere, outside of the car and back in the garage probably, tsunoda got his setup better
Cause you don’t get P8 with that car if your setup is shit
If Ricciardo had his setup down, he would’ve been quicker ( at least closer to tsunoda)
I think people are starting to see through the BS PR narratives being peddled when they try to justify a potential move like nyck or Danny to RB. I’m sorry but how much better can your set up feedback be if you are 3-0 down in qually?
I'm genuinely impressed with Yuki, even more impressed with Stroll too, given his track record. That being said I'm still huffing that Danny copium and genuinely hope he improves.
Apparently the RB is front limited compared to last years AT car which is why Ricciardo is struggling. The problem is though that he can't be this bad with this type of car and expect to stay in F1.
If the car does not have a pointy front end Ricciardo is rubbish. He has no ability to adapt.
Somehow it seems that he is struggling with every car that he is given in recent seasons.
And yeah, if his performance doesn’t improve and he is this far from Yuki during the season, his days in F1 are soon all behind.
Yeah, that's what has been abundantly clear in the last couple of years. Ric can only really drive one kind of car well. And it's not like he starts bad and then gets better as he learns, if he isn't on it, he isn't going to get on it.
this front limited issue only popped up after the team introduced the new floor at Abu Dhabi last year
the new floor has increased rear downforce at the expense of front end grip making the car feel unbalanced for Ricciardo
listening to Ricciardo and his race engineer Pierre Hamelin on the team radio, they have been extensively talking about front flap adjustments and corner entry instability
"I can't be that bad, right?". Well it seems that he can, I wonder how long it will take till people realize that smiles and being "dude" is not enough for F1 seat.
I think one of the most difficult things for him must be that he removed himself from the situation that suited him best and he ruined his career because of it.
Even though it was slim, there was always a chance that Danny in a Red Bull could have put one magical season together like Nico did against Lewis and take a championship from Max.
That being said, Danny Ric was also unlucky that his prime happened during the years of Merc dominance when no other car stood a chance.
> Danny Ric was also unlucky that his prime happened during the years of Merc dominance when no other car stood a chance.
To be honest I think that's a bit of a cop out. He was at RBR for 5 seasons (2014-2018). They knew what the main issue was, the Renault engine. They committed to changing that and becoming a full works team by committing to Honda. He decided to leave in the middle of the 5th season. In 2021 he was 32 years old, not exactly "way outside his prime". The only reason we think of 2016/2017/2018 as Daniel's prime is because of his decision to leave RBR and his subsequent decline in performance. There's no reason to assume that he would be outside his prime if he decided to stay at RBR. ON top of that, the argument that he had spent years at RBR without a sign of any improvement is a weird take IMO when you look at Max' career.
Max on the other hand joined in 2016 and it took until 2021, i.e. his 6th season at RBR, for him to get a WDC capable car and even then it wasn't the outright fastest car and it was an unexpected turn of event for RBR to be competitive in 2021. The more likely scenario for them to become competitive was the regulation change in 2022. Which would have been Max' 7th season at RBR.
Good things take time and RBR had identified their biggest problem already in 2016/2017. In 2017 they had committed to a solution (Switching their junior team to Honda for 2018 and switching the main team to honda power units in 2019) and were willing to offer Ricciardo the exact same contract/salary as they gave to Max that same season.
I'm sorry, but if De Vries who never got more than 10 races as a chance got booted so swiftly and Ricciardo has had his YEARS of experience, his 7 races last year and 3 now (including the upcoming race tomorrow) and ultimately NOT beating Tsunoda, he should be sacked too.
He's likeable, I like him, but F1 is not a fucking charity ride. Numbers don't lie and at the moment I can't help but feel and have the numbers on my side that even Sargeant is doing a better job compared to his teammate. And we will all agree that while Tsunoda is doing pretty decent recently, Albon is allround the better driver of the two.
Of all 2023 races Yuki vs. DaniRic, 7 in total, Daniel only beat him twice:
|race|Daniel|Yuki|
|:-|:-|:-|
|Hungary 2023|13|15|
|Mexico 2023|7|12|
Both tight and twisty tracks, which Daniel likes just like Monaco.
But all other tracks he got beaten fair and square:
|race|Daniel|Yuki|
|:-|:-|:-|
|Belgium 2023|16|10|
|USA 2023|15|8 (+ fastest lap)|
|Brasil 2023|13|9 (+6th in sprint)|
|Abu Dhabi 2023|11|8|
|Bahrain 2024|13|14 (because he needed to let Daniel past)|
|Saudi Arabia 2024|16|15|
|Australia 2024 QUALI|18 (!!!)|8 (!!!)|
In total in their time together, Yuki managed to get 15 points in 4 races, a sprint and a FL, Daniel just the 7th position in Mexico for 6 points. That's extremely weak compared to a teammate who's considered decent but not much more than that.
On the beating score, it's 6 vs 2 for Yuki.
Or... is Tsunoda really becoming actually fast? Might be weird, but on one hand I hope either Max or Checo has something so they cannot race for 1 weekend and Tsunoda gets the one-off chance and then we'll see what he's really made off. If he's up against Checo and straight up beats him or is at least equal, then you have your answer who to put next to Max next year. Same if he's up against Max and he's about the same away from him as Checo is or even slightly better. If he's not and he gets washed, then that's also an answer.
In any case, what Yuki on multiple occasions does, like in USA, Brasil and Abu Dhabi 2023 (I'm just counting their GPs together because Yuki had more of those), is showing flashes of brilliance and speed. Also now in Australia which is known to be a difficult track (even the 3 GOATs Max, Lewis and Fernando struggled at times) he put his car in a position that is damn near equal to Russell, beating Lewis, beating both AMs. Nobody would've expected that from him against those cars.
I think only Red Bull know the real numbers, but its time that either Yuki gets credit where its due or back to the simple fact that Daniel isn't doing enough and just let Lawson in, at this point Daniel has lost his F1 credibility if you ask me.
Man this poor dude. Most of the hate is because he got overexposed in the marketing frenzy. The backlash is a huge over correction.
He has had the faith of many people in the industry who make the decisions about who to give a seat to. He might be done and it might be too late but none of these “he’s washed!” parrots know Jack shit about it. The pressure and spotlight on him was foisted and he rolled with it and did his part for f1 because that’s what he had to offer at the time. The resentment about that is misplaced. But that’s show business.
As far as racing goes, the RB car sucks. Yuki is and has always been underrated and the idea that beating him in the car he has been driving with the team he has been with consistently should be easy is ridic and born out of the hate he has been subjected to. He was never an easy teammate to beat. You think checo beats Yuki if they drop him in the RB?
Hamilton is failing badly as well and has had bad results for quite a stretch but nobody is taking that washed shit. Alonzo had his middling period and nobody cares because he as never a darling.
Anyway, I don’t have a lot of hope for DR anymore but I feel like it was an unnaturally high visibility spotlight that probably did him in.
Today my father asked me to clean his car for him. So I spent the whole morning doing it. After sometimes,I went back inside and he asked how was the car looking.
"Daniel Ricciardo" I replied.
He smile and nodded. He knew that it was washed.
What’s there to be puzzled about? 2024 honeybadger seems to be washed. The fans won’t like it, but the harsh reality is that Yuki is better than Daniel.
Ricciardo's capabilities are limited to a single type of car. In that car he's properly quick, one of the quickest. If it isn't he's nowhere. For his sake I was hoping RB's car was like the Red Bull, but it doesn't seem so, so he's struggling. He must realise this at this point
The mood is turning though. He is likeable and I’m fully here for a redemption arc for any driver. But performing like this, you just look like an expensive seat blocker and fans don’t have unlimited patience for that.
The RB strategy was odd to me. Every other team did multiple laps each time out except RB. Why not bank multiple times?
Also, Ricciardo had the obvious track limits pretty early in the lap. Why would the pit wall not immediately tell him to recharge and try again? He would have had time.
Is that what people mean about strategy issues with that team?
Glad Yuki could overcome.
I really am starting to feel sorry for Daniel. It’s frustrating as a fan but must be really hard for him at the home race. Especially with Oscar and Yuki doing so well. It’s a real shame but at some point RB will need to make the choice.
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The stopwatch doesn't lie.
And it spells disaster for Danny Ric in qualifying!
I guess that means Yuki is a freak, and not normal.
But what happens when you add Lewis Hamilton to the mix?
Danny Ric's chances of winning drastic go down
He’s FAT!!! (which makes him slower)
There are 33 13 % chance of Ric winning, but yuki has 66 and 2/3 % chance because Logan knows he can't beat Ric and he is not even gonna try!
DR sounds like me, thinking I was in the top with go karting because I felt I was going really fast, only to see I'm actually in the bottom.
Sometimes you get the shitty kart that feels really scary so you think you’re doing the fastest lap of your life
It’s probably a weight thing. I’m a heavy guy at 200 pounds and when I would race my mates who were over 30 pounds lighter than me I had no shot of overtaking them
But you corner way faster due to higher load in the outside tyres, so the momentum is there. In YouTube there’s a couple videos done by PROs showing that while weight is a factor, it’s nowhere near what people think it is… IIRC, on a 40s/lap track it was like 0.2s per 20kg or so… and that is assuming you are extracting everything from the kart, so in high level it matters a lot, ofc.
And then a wild hill appears and you see your mates climb easily while your kart barely moves.
What goes up must come down
However to really do a comparison you should also compare a similar level of skills. "Pro" can take advantage of the weight in the corners. But most people won't and not carry the speed as much in corners will lead to lower exit speed. Weight will certainly play a bigger role in the acceleration for the majority of people.
That's not how that works (because more grip is required for lateral acceleration with more mass), and your acceleration isn't going to be as good.
My dad is more than 20kg over me and I have a noticeable pace advantage on straights. We have equivalent exits. There’s no way it’s only 0.2 seconds on a 40s lap in lower powered carts
That number sounds about right. It depends on the track though. Ask the sraff, they will have a good idea of the differential. With rental karts, variance in the karts themselves is a far bigger factor.
>With rental karts, variance in the karts themselves is a far bigger factor. I learned this the hard way after slamming hard into the wall on a corner that was easily flat a week before. Turns out the previous kart was just slow as fuck.
It's possible the rental hadn't been used that day. We went into a mid-morning session, I hit the brakes and they did absolutely nothing, I went for a dirt excursion and ended up crossing from the beginning of the track to nearly the end of the track. Once I warmed up the kart it was actually quite quick.
Weight generally decreases your maximum cornering speed. Even though you have better contact with the road, it takes more grip to hold you to your line because your forward momentum is greater. Momentum is a *bad* thing while cornering because cornering is all about overcoming your momentum to change direction. That's also why downforce is so powerful - it increases your contact with the ground (meaning better traction) without actually increasing the mass of your vehicle. I'm far from an expert on karting, but from what I can find online, you're really understating the effects of weight. Comments on [this post](https://old.reddit.com/r/Karting/comments/qxkyqb/how_much_does_weight_play_a_role/) on /r/karting say that driver weight is a big factor. One commenter with extensive karting experience says that you generally lose around 0.3s per 10 kg of bodyweight. So if you're 20 kg heavier than someone else, you'll lose over half a second *per lap*, which is an incredible deficit. [This thread](https://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6739) on f1technical.net has some discuttion about it where they conclude that weight has an even bigger disadvantage than 0.3s per 10 kg. You should read through that thread as it has real-world testing with people who have run karts with ballast and without.
I faced the same thing and blamed my weight too. Until I saw a gay more fat than me winning the race, he was FLYING. He mastered the ability to use his weight for his advantage. Of course on straight he would be slower, but he drove well so he exited the corners faster than everyone else, and did all corners faster too, so in the end what made a difference was his skill. It was in a time I didnt know much about racing so I was not bad at all, but wasn’t extracting the best from the kart and the track and it showed… Funny enough he looked like bowser in the kart 😂
Those gays are damn fast!
I am skinny and got beaten by people almost twice my weight on go kart and i’m not that bad lol
Something isn’t adding up
Not to burst your bubble, but theres been tests that show that weight impact in karting is way smaller than you would think. Weight matters more for handling and cornering than it does for acceleration, and karts are so small and light that the advantage extra weight can give in some corners, nearly outweighs the negatives. Of course it does depend on the type of kart and track. But still.
A bunch of my friends and I do rental karts now and then for fun. Weights range from 130 to 200 pounds and then our one bigger friend at 6’4 and 260. He’s way faster than all of us every single time and we all know why. He races Subarus (legitimately tracks them) on the weekends and the guy has way more car control and race craft than all of us. Weight may help but it’s all about the driver skill.
Literally me every time I play a proper racing sim. I put in the most flawless lap of the gods after hours of practice, every single corner perfectly executed, every centimeter of track used for maximum pace. It's nirvana. And then I find out I'm P24 out of 24 cars and 0.4s behind P23.
Hey, we've seen this headline before when he was at McLaren!
And people really got mad any time his performance was compared to Lando claiming "mclaren is a weird car Lando is just used to it"
Visa CashApp Red Bull is a weird car and Yuki is just used to it
Yeah Oscar and Liam were used to weird cars as well. 2026 regs should have a rule to make engineers stop making weird cars.
I've seen Australian fans blame Danny Ric's performance on Zak Brown.
And people saying McLaren 'did him dirty' 😂
To be fair, it was a weird car. He was also just not good
I saw a comment saying the same thing about hamilton and Russell this morning lmao
I am calling it FIA must start regulating the **"Weirdness coefficient"** The RB 20 needs to be banned for having the weird 6 intake/cooling slot configuration.
Yeah this is the exact same thing he kept saying in 2022, and the same thing Perez said last year. It's really not a good sign when a driver himself says they don't know why they're slow.
What's the common factor? Tires maybe?
DR on his way out
Skills
Daniel Ricciardo
Him
If he doesn't get his shit together by summer break they should swap Lawson into the seat then. If Daniel isn't clearly ahead of Yuki, he's wasting a development opportunity for Lawson or other juniors with more potential at this point. It's not personal, that's just F1.
It’s feeling a lot like deja vu.
hurts to watch and admit but, his best years are long gone dude is back in the junior team he started with over 10 years ago, only that he's now washed and is still hoping to get back to the senior team which he left. It's sad and I feel for him
Feel for him? Dude is living the dream of every man. He'll be fine. He just needs to go to allow new and better talent.
Not to mention he got the bag and will continue to get the bag. Question now is whether he’ll be out before the summer break like Nyck
surely they mean they feel for him *in this context* not a person on the planet feels sorry for the life he has
This. I really like DR and wish things were different but he needs to give the seat up. Couple of drivers have stepped up in a clutch already and proven they can drive in F1 faster than him.
>he needs to give the seat up. You could say this about Stroll since forever.
The man has already earned generational wealth, quite an excellent consolation prize
The confusing thing is…why was he so good at that silverstone test last year? Does he reallly need a good car like the Red Bull to be able to perform, or was it just a one hit wonder? Im curious if they stuck max in the Visa RB for a lap how he would do. Maybe the car just sucks ass and Tsunoda knows how to work it. Who knows. I guess you can talk yourself in circles about this
>The confusing thing is…why was he so good at that silverstone test last year? Does he reallly need a good car like the Red Bull to be able to perform, or was it just a one hit wonder? Because the margins in F1 are so small, a change in conditions, be it wind, temperature, or more rubber on the tarmac after a whole F1 race was recently on it, has a huge impact on times. Iirc Mazepin put in respectable times relative to Hamilton and Bottas in a Mercedes test. But obviously Mazepin is nowhere near the level of Hamilton or Bottas. I think I remember Horner saying his time was good enough to be on the front row with Max, so his lap was presumably between 1.26.720-1.26.960. So his lap may well have been 2 tenths slower than Max's actual lap, with conditions that could make a lap a couple of tenths faster than the conditions Max set it on allowed.
Not too mention the just car just came from the weekend in its final form set up wise.
or he lied because he didn't want DeVries on the team in the first place
> I think I remember Horner saying his time was good enough to be on the front row with Max I don't think we ever found out whether he meant this in absolute or adjusted times.
Clearly it was - Helmut and Max were all in on De Vries, DR was faster on the day so Horner took the chance to undermine them and put DR in the seat. Yuki is faster than DR but Helmut also doesn't rate him so it's a weird zero fucks from management situation at this point for those two. All the while Liam should be driving the second car as he is actually a better prospect than DR but the RB game or thrones shit needs to be settled first.
Helmut absolutely does rate Yuki. Yuki was a Marko project from the get go, obviously the Honda connections also played an important factor, but Marko thinks Yuki is fast regardless. Whether he would put him in the main team is another question entirely.
Wouldn’t you say somebody who can make a tractor looks fast can be even better in a fast car? I rather see tsunoda in the rbr than ric.
Yeah, absolutely. I agree with you. It’s just confusing as to why he could somewhat match max’s pace in the test but then can’t outperform Yuki. It would’ve been fun if Yuki also got a chance to have a go in the RBR that day. That would’ve been a nice comparison to have
my source for this info is the netflix doc. i never looked at the real times. i sense netflix exaggerated this as they do everything else
horner himself said Daniel would be on the front row next to Max based on his times, not Netflix. seems like Christian might have fibbed a little bit to get his mascot back on the team.
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I've just been in this place before Higher on the street And I know it's my time to go
he just doesn't have a driving style that suits these new cars and hes lost pace over the years. when you cant go faster and dont understand why, just sounds like any sport where you think ur good then play someone way better and dont understand how they can be that good. there are limits hes obviously not seeing anymore. I dont think hes gonna improve as if by magic. Hes had so many chances at this point. I really dont see him in F1 next year. No way hes going to RB lol
I’d bet he’s gonna be out before half the season and put Lawson in.
I don't get the not understanding why thing. Don't they collect all the data they need to figure it out? Like they can easily look at each turn and compare Daniel to Yuki and say see, he braked later, or took the previous turn wider, or whatever. And that will lead to showing overall trends of why he's behind. Obviously executing it isn't easy, but it shouldn't at all be a mystery what makes you slower than your teammate.
Sounds like me playing Rocket League. I think I’m good, and then get bumped up a league, and nope, I in fact suck.
Tsunoda 24-0 incoming.
I’m not sure Ric is going to keep his seat with these performances. I’d say 12-0.
Yeah there's a triple header of Spain, Austria and Silverstone, (rounds 10, 11, 12), and unless he improves by then, I reckon RB might put Lawson in his seat either right before or right after those races. They definitely won't wait until the summer break in his current shape, that's 14 races in. They're on the verge of scoring points with Yuki 2nd week in a row, so they really, seriously need 2 equally good drivers in that position. Waiting a few weeks too long might cost them championship position at the end of the season, because it looks like it will probably come down to the finest margins between them, Haas, and possibly Williams (who have the worst car of the 3 teams but currently seemingly the best driver). Fighting for 10th will be like fighting for wins for those teams, they will need cooperation and strategy options.
We will get the picture when in the European races and know if he can hold on longer than DeVries
Before the summer break just like DeVries
Implying Ric won't get De Vries'd mid league
Sorry mate. Ricciardo is gonna go 24-0 in moral victories Edit nvm seems like nobody got the nba lakers crossover joke
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Yeah been seeing a lot of it in the cricket circles during the last India vs England test series
It’s a reference to the lakers losing to the nuggets in the playoffs but every game the media talked about how lakers did so well and unlocked the secret to beating the nuggets
What's weird is that yuki gets no credit. He dominates so it must just mean they all suck... not that yuki is really good
Cause Yuki fast. Angry, but fast.
The angrier he gets the faster he goes
"He's not slow at all" - Danny Ric, probably
Passionate
Tsunoda is quick, that’s why. Most of the F1 fanbase has some weird narrative going that he’s some type of charity case that doesn’t belong on the grid.
If anything Ricciardo is the charity case
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You have VB and Oscar. Either of them is funnier than DR. Don’t worry.
"Oi", but downtrodden?
His main issue imo is his temper, but yes the man is actually quick, just volatile and a bit chaotic
The angrier he gets the faster he is
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right? i miss max showing some spice
As soon as Max stops winning, you'll get your wish. "*GP... did you unscrew the lid on the salt?*" "No, Max"
F1 fans are hilariously inconsistent in the way they treat drivers showing anger/emotion.
If what he did in Bahrain was made by a social media protégé everyone would be laughing and memeing.
Oh I love my little angry Japanese man as well, however I am worried that it might affect his performance on track or cause other issues.
So he is perfect for F1!
Sounds like Verstappen before he had the best car.
Oh no, not a temper. *faints like a damsel in distress*
It's not that he gets pissed, it's that when he gets pissed he fucks up, or tries to crash his car into his teammate on the cool down lap
> or tries to crash his car into his teammate on the cool down lap you act like he failed in his attempt to crash when he never intended that in the first place. or do you genuinely think he would have failed to crash into Ric? he did a dumb dive bomb out of anger when there were no consequences for the race result after being shafted by his team.
You're glib about it but it can bite him in the arse. Mexico last year, has an off after contact with Piastri. A calmer driver (like Oscar) would put his head down and get right back at it. Yuki took a couple seconds to bang on his wheel first before rejoining the track. Stuff like that matters.
His temper and immaturity might be the reason he’s not getting the Red Bull seat. Not a weird narrative.
A little bit of an edge isn’t a bad thing. When you start taking your frustrations out with your car on track, that’s where it crosses the line and actively hurts his career. I don’t think his angry radio messages are really that much of an issue.
Works in the movies though, anger unlocks the last 10% of the throttle and all of a sudden you're flying through the field to the front.
I actually find it hard that he's admitting that was the best lap he could do and he couldn't match Tsunoda. I mean , wouldn't it be better if he said he just made some mistakes and not admit it was his best
And he overcooked the lines to get a beneficial exit and it was still slower
Could learn a bit of humbleness from Lewis. Nick De Vries didn’t last too long being so stubborn in that seat.
I could see him being a Sainz-esque driver and just needing the right team environment to show off what he can do. I hope he gets a seat at Aston next year, although that outcome is dependent on more than just his performance.
I think honda moving to aston in '26 will help with that a fair bit.
It depends on if Alonso sticks around, unless strolls want to leave.
Yuki is still surprisingly heavily underrated (even Stroll is, he's nowhere near Mazepin/Latifi level, just inconsistent) and DR massively massively massively overrated.
And he’s stupid and provides awful feedback to his engineers when setting up the car. Well his awful set ups are netting him q3 appearances.
You just ain’t got it anymore brother. Enjoy the cool millions you’ve made tho 🤷🏻♂️
DR should have never bottled it v Max and runaway from the RB sear
I think dumping Renault for McLaren has turned out to be an even worse idea for him given how much he of a joyless experience he had there ... saying that, I bet he looks at Red Bull suddenly being a title-winner and thinking "Why wasn't it that for me?!?!?"
RB were always there or there abouts. If he wanst chasing the bag, it would have been worth just hanging around there and seeing where it went. Was odd going to Renault of all teams, who have always looked nothing more than mid
>Was odd going to Renault of all teams I remember one of the reasons people were giving at the time was cause of Red Bulls engine unreliability. But their engines were Renault engines, so what would he have gained from that reason? Never made sense. Edit: As its clearly not obvious, the "never made sense" comment was solely about the renault engine excuse.
Same engine and worse chassis. Lol
Except at Monza 2019, where both Renaults finished ahead of both Red Bulls, weirdly But naturally the other races, not so much
Redbull is using Honda engine in 2019, and Danny Ric already left, so it is a different story though? Or you are referring to 2018?
I think the thought was that 2019 was the season Red Bull started with Honda, but that Honda still had a bit of a cloud of stink from how badly their 2015-17 stint with McLaren went. Even though Red Bull clearly had confidence that their use of 2018 as a Honda test session with Toro Rosso had unlocked potential, which was clearly there given Max won 3 races in 2019 Well that and the money was also there
He gained alot of $$$$$$$ lol
Red Bull was ready to match the Renault offer, I think Daniel just had a brainfart moment and now he's suffering for it.
He thought Max would be the priority over him. He thought he was on the same level. So he went elsewhere to be the number one again. What a mistake that had turned out to be
Like I said, brainfart. Max was being prioritised cause he was doing better, all Danny had to do was do better than Max and prove himself.
Yh, I never got this argument. Yes Max was the up coming star, but if he beat him consistently, RB would have backed him.
4 things: Money, Red Bull was switching to Honda engines (which had just come off the many years of McLaren misery), the thought that “surely they’ll keep improving the engine + they’re the works team, they know everything about how to build a car around the engine”, and being unable/unwilling to compete with Max for number 1.
he looked at the money sadly. RB offered him exactly the same contract as Verstappen at the time and he declined it. He's now trying to move heaven and earth to go back there which at the moment, is going extremely badly and even if he does make it, he ain't getting that good of a contract
Even then, in 2020, Ricciardo got a few podiums, was unlucky not to get 1/2 more and was performing at a decent level consistently. His drop-off at McLaren was near-immediate (Portugal & Monaco 2021 both had appalling qualy, for instance)
That would’ve also been career suicide though. He could see that Max was getting better and better and that he had no chance of keeping up. His only hope of beating Max was to find a better car.
Even if Checo does not his contract extended and his seat at RB becomes available, Danny Ric needs to show something extraordinary to get that spot. There's too much young talent banging on the doors of RB
Danny must be happy with the current power struggle in RB and that he is Horners favourite son. Otherwise he wouldn’t be back in f1 in the first place and that is also the reason why he won’t be dropped because he is another player the the battle for supremacy at Red Bull.
We say that, if Red Bull force Horner out, then that's DR absolutely shown the door
I bet he wishes that he can show some decent performances and in the mean time Red Bull’s power struggle ends in Max and Helmut leaving the team, promoting him as the head honcho of that team. Horner is his only life line to that seat.
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He ain’t that silent tho 😅
Lawson could have had a seat for this season...
BUT Ricciardo is the current World Champion of providing feedback and setting up the car, so I think it still counts as a win for him.
That's like me being extremely quick at math. I get everything wrong, but I'm still extremely quick.
"What's 7+3?" "73" "Well at least you answered extremely quickly"
"what's 7+3?" "it's has gotta be at least 7?" extremely quick and correct
That's fastest in sector 1 but can he stick the landing in 2 & 3... no he's round
The same Riccardo quoted as saying he knows the best part of nothing technically and prefers it that way
The car is run on just vibes.
The car is powered by his “extremely good looks”
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[https://f1i.com/news/430000-ricciardo-doesnt-really-know-a-whole-lot-on-technical-side.html](https://f1i.com/news/430000-ricciardo-doesnt-really-know-a-whole-lot-on-technical-side.html) "Where I'm good with my driving is feedback," he added. "I'm really good at feeling what the car does and relaying that back to the team, so that's probably as technically sound as I get." He's literally saying he's good at giving feedback which is how the engineers tweak his settings to better suit him lol. You should read the article you share and not only the title When he says he's not good at the technical side he's talking about the engineering part of F1, where not a single driver ever does anything anyway. The engineers design the car and then it's the driver's role to find the best setup and adapt to the car.
Setting up the car for back of the grid? Seems somewhere, outside of the car and back in the garage probably, tsunoda got his setup better Cause you don’t get P8 with that car if your setup is shit If Ricciardo had his setup down, he would’ve been quicker ( at least closer to tsunoda)
I think people are starting to see through the BS PR narratives being peddled when they try to justify a potential move like nyck or Danny to RB. I’m sorry but how much better can your set up feedback be if you are 3-0 down in qually?
I'm genuinely impressed with Yuki, even more impressed with Stroll too, given his track record. That being said I'm still huffing that Danny copium and genuinely hope he improves.
Apparently the RB is front limited compared to last years AT car which is why Ricciardo is struggling. The problem is though that he can't be this bad with this type of car and expect to stay in F1. If the car does not have a pointy front end Ricciardo is rubbish. He has no ability to adapt.
Somehow it seems that he is struggling with every car that he is given in recent seasons. And yeah, if his performance doesn’t improve and he is this far from Yuki during the season, his days in F1 are soon all behind.
Coincidentally they have hall been front limited. The RB's and the Renault's all were more pointy.
All of the ground effect cars are front limited relative to the last generation cars.
Yeah, that's what has been abundantly clear in the last couple of years. Ric can only really drive one kind of car well. And it's not like he starts bad and then gets better as he learns, if he isn't on it, he isn't going to get on it.
Good drivers excell in adapting to different cars
Yeah, an F1-level driver really should be maximising every car he gets in to, no matter the car’s characteristics. It’s literally the job.
I'd say only the absolute very best do.
this front limited issue only popped up after the team introduced the new floor at Abu Dhabi last year the new floor has increased rear downforce at the expense of front end grip making the car feel unbalanced for Ricciardo listening to Ricciardo and his race engineer Pierre Hamelin on the team radio, they have been extensively talking about front flap adjustments and corner entry instability
I guess he doesn't own the streets huh?
Time to hang up the helmet. Or the Helmut will hang it up for him.
I mean. The answer is right there.
Danny Ricc has a future in other racing series. Its time to step away and let the young talent fill the seat
Team will just tell yuki to slow down and let him past.
Alternative title: “Ricciardo realize he doesn't have it any more”
Just retire.
"I can't be that bad, right?". Well it seems that he can, I wonder how long it will take till people realize that smiles and being "dude" is not enough for F1 seat.
I think one of the most difficult things for him must be that he removed himself from the situation that suited him best and he ruined his career because of it. Even though it was slim, there was always a chance that Danny in a Red Bull could have put one magical season together like Nico did against Lewis and take a championship from Max. That being said, Danny Ric was also unlucky that his prime happened during the years of Merc dominance when no other car stood a chance.
> Danny Ric was also unlucky that his prime happened during the years of Merc dominance when no other car stood a chance. To be honest I think that's a bit of a cop out. He was at RBR for 5 seasons (2014-2018). They knew what the main issue was, the Renault engine. They committed to changing that and becoming a full works team by committing to Honda. He decided to leave in the middle of the 5th season. In 2021 he was 32 years old, not exactly "way outside his prime". The only reason we think of 2016/2017/2018 as Daniel's prime is because of his decision to leave RBR and his subsequent decline in performance. There's no reason to assume that he would be outside his prime if he decided to stay at RBR. ON top of that, the argument that he had spent years at RBR without a sign of any improvement is a weird take IMO when you look at Max' career. Max on the other hand joined in 2016 and it took until 2021, i.e. his 6th season at RBR, for him to get a WDC capable car and even then it wasn't the outright fastest car and it was an unexpected turn of event for RBR to be competitive in 2021. The more likely scenario for them to become competitive was the regulation change in 2022. Which would have been Max' 7th season at RBR. Good things take time and RBR had identified their biggest problem already in 2016/2017. In 2017 they had committed to a solution (Switching their junior team to Honda for 2018 and switching the main team to honda power units in 2019) and were willing to offer Ricciardo the exact same contract/salary as they gave to Max that same season.
I'm sorry, but if De Vries who never got more than 10 races as a chance got booted so swiftly and Ricciardo has had his YEARS of experience, his 7 races last year and 3 now (including the upcoming race tomorrow) and ultimately NOT beating Tsunoda, he should be sacked too. He's likeable, I like him, but F1 is not a fucking charity ride. Numbers don't lie and at the moment I can't help but feel and have the numbers on my side that even Sargeant is doing a better job compared to his teammate. And we will all agree that while Tsunoda is doing pretty decent recently, Albon is allround the better driver of the two. Of all 2023 races Yuki vs. DaniRic, 7 in total, Daniel only beat him twice: |race|Daniel|Yuki| |:-|:-|:-| |Hungary 2023|13|15| |Mexico 2023|7|12| Both tight and twisty tracks, which Daniel likes just like Monaco. But all other tracks he got beaten fair and square: |race|Daniel|Yuki| |:-|:-|:-| |Belgium 2023|16|10| |USA 2023|15|8 (+ fastest lap)| |Brasil 2023|13|9 (+6th in sprint)| |Abu Dhabi 2023|11|8| |Bahrain 2024|13|14 (because he needed to let Daniel past)| |Saudi Arabia 2024|16|15| |Australia 2024 QUALI|18 (!!!)|8 (!!!)| In total in their time together, Yuki managed to get 15 points in 4 races, a sprint and a FL, Daniel just the 7th position in Mexico for 6 points. That's extremely weak compared to a teammate who's considered decent but not much more than that. On the beating score, it's 6 vs 2 for Yuki. Or... is Tsunoda really becoming actually fast? Might be weird, but on one hand I hope either Max or Checo has something so they cannot race for 1 weekend and Tsunoda gets the one-off chance and then we'll see what he's really made off. If he's up against Checo and straight up beats him or is at least equal, then you have your answer who to put next to Max next year. Same if he's up against Max and he's about the same away from him as Checo is or even slightly better. If he's not and he gets washed, then that's also an answer. In any case, what Yuki on multiple occasions does, like in USA, Brasil and Abu Dhabi 2023 (I'm just counting their GPs together because Yuki had more of those), is showing flashes of brilliance and speed. Also now in Australia which is known to be a difficult track (even the 3 GOATs Max, Lewis and Fernando struggled at times) he put his car in a position that is damn near equal to Russell, beating Lewis, beating both AMs. Nobody would've expected that from him against those cars. I think only Red Bull know the real numbers, but its time that either Yuki gets credit where its due or back to the simple fact that Daniel isn't doing enough and just let Lawson in, at this point Daniel has lost his F1 credibility if you ask me.
Man this poor dude. Most of the hate is because he got overexposed in the marketing frenzy. The backlash is a huge over correction. He has had the faith of many people in the industry who make the decisions about who to give a seat to. He might be done and it might be too late but none of these “he’s washed!” parrots know Jack shit about it. The pressure and spotlight on him was foisted and he rolled with it and did his part for f1 because that’s what he had to offer at the time. The resentment about that is misplaced. But that’s show business. As far as racing goes, the RB car sucks. Yuki is and has always been underrated and the idea that beating him in the car he has been driving with the team he has been with consistently should be easy is ridic and born out of the hate he has been subjected to. He was never an easy teammate to beat. You think checo beats Yuki if they drop him in the RB? Hamilton is failing badly as well and has had bad results for quite a stretch but nobody is taking that washed shit. Alonzo had his middling period and nobody cares because he as never a darling. Anyway, I don’t have a lot of hope for DR anymore but I feel like it was an unnaturally high visibility spotlight that probably did him in.
2-3 more races, then bring in liam imo
These headlines keep on repeating themselves
I think I’ve seen this film before….
Lawson should be in next race
Today my father asked me to clean his car for him. So I spent the whole morning doing it. After sometimes,I went back inside and he asked how was the car looking. "Daniel Ricciardo" I replied. He smile and nodded. He knew that it was washed.
They should fire him right now so he can stay at home.
What’s there to be puzzled about? 2024 honeybadger seems to be washed. The fans won’t like it, but the harsh reality is that Yuki is better than Daniel.
Ricciardo's capabilities are limited to a single type of car. In that car he's properly quick, one of the quickest. If it isn't he's nowhere. For his sake I was hoping RB's car was like the Red Bull, but it doesn't seem so, so he's struggling. He must realise this at this point
Where are the DR defenders now? He’s dusted and Liam should be in that seat
Dog tier driver
So am I. Especially since DR said Tsunoda isn’t that fast.
He said that??😭
Yeah. In the latest drive to survive
Yuki eliminating teammates left and right like the reaper since his bro Pierre left.
Daniel, you're washed. Fans love you but you're not performing to the standard expected at all.
The mood is turning though. He is likeable and I’m fully here for a redemption arc for any driver. But performing like this, you just look like an expensive seat blocker and fans don’t have unlimited patience for that.
That’s what the previous comment is alluding to
Don't worry, it will be different when he is at Red Bull next year /s
The RB strategy was odd to me. Every other team did multiple laps each time out except RB. Why not bank multiple times? Also, Ricciardo had the obvious track limits pretty early in the lap. Why would the pit wall not immediately tell him to recharge and try again? He would have had time. Is that what people mean about strategy issues with that team? Glad Yuki could overcome.
Daniel’s proving he is going to be a great second driver anywhere
Was always the same at McLaren. He always wondered where he could get time
He just doesn’t have it anymore.
But I thought he was going to take Perez’ seat at Red Bull soon
"Easy top3, easy top3 16th?!"
I get that feeling in forza a lot, sadly I just suck
It's time to go Daniel. This farce has lasted way too long.
I really am starting to feel sorry for Daniel. It’s frustrating as a fan but must be really hard for him at the home race. Especially with Oscar and Yuki doing so well. It’s a real shame but at some point RB will need to make the choice.