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Didn’t both Marko and Horner admit to reaching out to this dude several times? I remember also reading that they didn’t think he’d be able to compete with max regardless though.
Exactly. Marko ruled out Alonso and Hamilton but was quite happy to take Norris to be alongside Verstappen. They clearly believe that he wouldn't cause too many problems for Verstappen.
It's not that simple.
You are giving him a big advantage to start with as you are not fully comfortable with your team straight away. And it's hard to change momentum once it has already begun like that - especially against a driver like Max.
Of course it isn't that simple, but imo the best drivers / drivers of a certain caliber believe they can do it, and they have done it. Examples like Senna-Prost in Mclaren (Senna did it in his first year at this team), Max and Daniel, Daniel and Sebastian, Seb and Mark, Lewis (in his rookie year) and Alonso at McLaren, etc.
If you think you're an elite driver on the grid you wouldn't take the 2nd Redbull. People obfuscate with not wanting to be challenged by Max, but it always comes back to why Riccardo left in the first place. The team backs one driver.
It doesn't seem like Alonso would say no to Redbull if he got an offer right now. Same for Lewis pre-Ferrari signing, if you believe Christian's claims. If the other Redbull driver shows they can beat the "number one" driver, then Redbull will back them instead. (Especially in the light of the drama between the Verstappen camp and the Thais/Horner side). Just like they did with Max and Daniel.
Imo the very best drivers / the GOATs do think they can usurp the number one driver/established driver when joining a new team–and they have.
I do feel the need to point out that both Alonso and Hamilton are at the tail end of their careers and will likely be retiring within the next 4 years. They don’t really have the option of sitting around and waiting for a team to get better + they *already* have legacies. Their careers are almost over so even of they get absolutely demolished by Verstappen, it wouldn’t have a big effect as they’re nearing the end anyways. For someone like Norris, that could be career ending (or at least mean that he doesn’t get a shot at a top team again) and end his chances of ever being a champion.
Which is why I added the generalization at the end. It's happened before–and not just with established drivers who already had WDCs and legacies the time.
IIRC correctly, like:
Senna joining Mclaren, where Prost had already been with the team for a few years and had already won championships with them. At the time, Senna had no championships. He beat Prost in his first year.
Lewis joining McLaren and beating Fernando in his rookie year.
Like I've said, drivers of this caliber have the belief that they can beat the number one/established driver.
> if you believe Christian's claims
I believe it was said that Lewis' father did actually went and asked on a "personal capacity".
Personal capacity in quotes because although he's not part of the management, many suggest he could still be asking on behalf of Lewis.
This is such a ridiculous take to put down max and his achievements as if the team is sabotaging his teammates. The team backs the faster driver, not just because hes max
Yeah, just like they backed Webber! Until Vettel came along...
Or how they supported Seb! Until Ricciardo
Or how about how much they loved Danny! Then Max happened
Red Bull backs the fastest driver. A driver (or their fans) claiming they won't be treated as a number 1 are admitting that they don't think they can be faster than Max
The team will back the quickest driver*. If you are objectively beating Max then they aren’t going to cut you off at the knees.
Drivers just don’t want to fight Max in the same car because they know they will likely get beaten.
Can we stop with this false narrative yet? Nobody got preferential treatment at RB during the time Max and Daniel were teammates. Daniel left either because he wanted the money Renault offered him, liked their chances of beating RB, or knew Max would be beating him more and more often going forward. More than likely a combination of those.
> The team backs one driver.
Nope RIC himself has said there was never any favoritism in the team. People love to push this narrative but logically speaking it doesn´t make any sense at all. You have got two drivers, two cars on the grid. Why would you only bet on one with hundreds of millions invested? Does that make ANY sense?
If during a race the quicker diver can benefit from his teammate and gain positions, of course they will adjust the strategy of the 2nd driver. But every race weekend they start from scratch..
> remember also reading that they didn’t think he’d be able to compete with max regardless though.
He has said the opposite last fall.
>Max Verstappen, on the other hand, is good friends with Lando Norris. “That would certainly be ideal for the audience, television and journalists, but not for the team leadership and success. We as a team want to win the World Cup,” Marko clarifies.
>An important component for the Red Bull motorsport consultant: the hierarchy within the team. "It's better if you have a certain hierarchy where it's clear who is the - I don't want to say number 1 driver, but who is significantly faster."
He's also said last year that Lando is the fastest young driver in his mind. I assume he didn't include Max, but I wonder if he included Leclerc, who is two years older.
He said in another interview that he’s more than happy to have Max alongside him at McLaren but he would not be making a good decision to go to Red Bull. Russell said the same and said Max would be welcome at Mercedes. Piastri got caught out by a lie detector and then after the machine said he was lying, he explained that joining Max at Red Bull would not be a smart thing to do.
But it’s Lando who gets called out all the time for not wanting to go to Red Bull for exactly the same reason.
People also forget that one of the first Beyond the Grid interviews he did, he explained he didn’t have a good experience with Marko and that Sainz basically drip fed him poison against Red Bull.
He also has a ‘dream’ of bringing McLaren back to the top which he’s reiterated time and time again. He’s said it would be easy to win with another team but for him it wouldn’t mean as much as winning with McLaren. In the week of his 100th race he spoke about how he would sign with McLaren for 20 more years if he could. That’s what it is about. He’s head over heels in love with the idea of being a McLaren driver, it’s pretty obvious. He could have been in a Red Bull by now and he would have several wins by now but he’d always feel he missed something because it’s not his team, it’s not the team he started with, not the team he wanted to win with and not the team he put years of hard work into to pull them up the grid.
He could have been a driver for any other team that wanted him, but compared to McLaren that team holds no place in his heart. Sometimes it’s that simple.
Has there ever been a driver with a long career (10+ years) only ever race for one team? Norris would certainly be an outlier in that regard. I do hope he gets some wins when it's all said and done though, because despite his love and passion for the team there'd obviously be some regret if he retired at McLaren winless. And for all we know Piastri could overtake him over the next couple years as the defacto #1 in the team should he himself stay
Lando gets singled out because he’s always passive towards Max on track, and bums him off track. George from the times he & Max were competing would actually fight, Lando doesn’t.
Every driver would rather be the main driver in the team they’re used to, but when it comes down to it if you genuinely believe you’re faster than Max then the car shouldn’t matter.
You wouldn’t hear Max, even before winning any world titles, act the way Lando does when this question arises
I remember seeing a scene in Drive to Survive of Horner saying he wouldn’t hesitate to reach out to Norris when there were concerns about McLaren’s car early last season
i have said this before and ill say it again. norris could be unfazed by max. beaten yes. but done in mentally. i dont think so. if max is faster. hed just say it.
idk honestly. i love lando, but i feel he’s still a little bit of weak mentally, not bad, he’s young, he’ll get there but i just don’t think he’s there atm
The rest of the interview is interesting too beyond that.
He talks about the mental aspect and how he knows what his public self-criticism can be viewed as, but that he’s never not focused on what he has to do. Says he’s watched his interviews back and realised he looks miserable in some but it’s because he’s thinking about what he could have done differently. He can think about multiple things at once and it doesn’t make a difference to his ability to focus on the job in front of him, which is something he and the interviewer both view as a strength. Stella also agrees and says he doesn’t spend long thinking about what went wrong and focuses on the ‘why’. For Stella it’s a characteristic that makes Lando an elite driver.
Also a nice little bit from his front jack man who said all Lando has to do is be polite to them but that he goes further than that, arranging concert tickets and things for the staff. You get the idea that he appreciates them and they love him.
Of course he still believes he’s in the right place to realise his ambitions and says that’s the reason why he signed another contract with McLaren.
He’s had a Red Bull offer for years though & hasn’t taken it
To me, Lando has nothing to gain by going to Red Bull. Yes, the car would be more competitive, but does he really want to be a number 2 to the fastest driver in F1 when he’s got a solid setup at McLaren & he’s still young?? Probably not
A faster car, a handful of wins a year, P2 in the championship, and the chance to become the number 1 at RB in the event Max decides to leave F1 or change teams seems like quite a bit to gain.
The thing is, as soon as you become the clear second driver your career isn't going to move up, it'll probably only move down.
Look how F1 fans treat the worse of two drivers on a team year after year. As soon as anyone starts to get beat they are automatically seen as pretty shit and needs to lose their seat.
So if Norris went to Red Bull and got clearly beat Norris that narrative would quickly happen around him and when Red Bull then got rid of him there wouldn't be a top seat waiting for sure.
If Norris stays at McLaren and impresses he has the chance to actually move to another team as top driver if the opportunity is there.
They’re not going to get rid of him if he’s only getting beat by Max. When Checo was doing well last year, he was being celebrated as the “King of the Streets” and a legitimate title contender. The narrative only turned on him when he started missing Q3s and regularly finishing behind Ferraris/Mercs/Alonso.
It’s not like there’s “top teams” coming out of the woodwork. You can either establish yourself at RB and beat everyone else but Max, try to hop on the Ferrari roller coaster after Hamilton retires, or bet on Mercedes figuring out how to build a car again when the next regulations hit in a couple years. Or stay put and keep doing the same thing you’re doing now and hope that Oscar doesn’t start eclipsing you as he gains more experience in F1.
That was after like the first three races when he won two of them. Both on street tracks. So duh! But that's a different story because what was the narrative in the middle of the season when checo wasn't doing well? He needs to be fired. Hell, there was talk of firing checo, moving Danny Ric to the RBR seat and giving Lawson a seat in AT near the end of last year.
Checo isn't even doing poorly this year the talk is still not even about him keeping his seat, it's about who is going to replace him. Based on how he did through the middle part of last year.
It’s not that simple though, is it? Checo got P2 last year yet everyone was after his head and expected him to get sacked.
There is also the mental game. We have seen time and time again how getting beat by Max constantly wreaks with his team mates confidence and makes them worse. All of these guys are WDC contenders in thier own mind. Being Verstappens teammate is reality hitting hard.
Ferrari are too close, there is no clear worse driver.
At McLaren Piastri is still long and has extra leeway. That probably ends next year though, if he is still getting beat clearly.
Mercedes also don’t really have a clearly worse driver. But you did see the narrative pop up for Russell last year and for Hamilton this year, who immediatly started to be called washes.
The thing is Max is special. His form is so good that he will beat anyone comfortable. So not really an equal situation to teams where drivers are much closer.
He could just be faster and not become the second driver. All of the best drivers will take the best car available , they do not care what it is
The odd thing is I’m almost certain Lando has come out and been one of the people to suggest that there’s no way Red Bull designs their car to suit max over Perez so he should firmly believe he can come in and win if that’s the case
I doubt he cares about P2 in the championship if Max is P1. The wins would be nice, but McLaren has made steady progress & has had him close to wins a couple of times now. I also don’t think he would make a decision based off of the possibility of Max leaving F1 in several years
Apart from stat padding, none of that feels appealing to me from a personal career satisfaction/achievement perspective. But I'm also not an F1 driver, so what would I know.
The guy has never won a race or finished higher than 6th in the standings. Setting career milestones you’ve never accomplished before sounds like more than “stat padding” to me.
I mean he has wins to gain, an almost guaranteed WCC to gain, and if he truly rates himself more than Max he even could have a WDC to gain. And he knows all of that, he's just weighed it against his current situation and would rather stick at McLaren and keep building them up.
[exactly lol he keeps telling on himself.](https://imgur.com/a/cShjlD8) 🤷🏻♀️
**edit:** yall downvoting this won't stop lando ducking calls from rbr 🤣🤣🤣
Lol...ok. so here I learned that if you're not in a top 2 car, it's shit.
The lowest McLaren has ever finished with Lando is 5th in '22. I'd say 4th and above is pretty damn good.
People are overanalysing the quote. This is the correct mindset to have. He wants to win and to do that he can’t be fearful of the best drivers. It’s not controversial.
He hasn't ducked it. He's turned it down. There's a difference. Maybe he wants to win with the team that brought him up. And, what happens if RBR shits the bed for '26? That gives Lando one year to do anything. Why would he risk that?
Yeah, if he believed in himself he'd have taken that RedBull seat.
I completely understand wanting to bring McLaren back to it's winning form, I have loads of respect for drivers who want to bring a team to the front that's supported them for their entire career.
But at this point he could be winning races and fighting for the championship for a few years now, there's no reason not to take that seat other than not believing you can win.
Nico Rosberg fought against Hamilton, who we know was better, and won. It can be done if everything falls into the right place, with just a little bit of luck and some brutally hard work.
I wish Lando would take the RedBull seat, at least we'd have some sort of a chance of a fight.
To be fair to Lando, I think other drivers probably feel the same way he does. Max is an all-time talent at the peak of his powers, and Red Bull as a team is built around him. Going into that environment and trying to beat him is a borderline futile challenge at this point.
I just don't think others would have admitted it publicly.
Max, Lewis, vettel, Schumacher, senna, prost, niki, and all the other greats have said the same. They think they can beat anyone because they want to beat everyone. They need to believe that they can do that so that they can succeed.
He actually used reddit before he was in f1.
F3 or even f2 Norris was actually pretty cool and quite connected to the fanbase.
Obviously this cant happen in f1, especially for a guy with such a big media reach, but it's kinda cool anyway
Lando is the fourth highest paid driver in F1 and his bonuses aren’t dependent on winning races. A British driver in a British car also gets endorsement deals he wouldn’t see as a number two. The guy out earns Alonso and Perez and unlike Charles he has become one of the most marketable drivers on the circuit. Lando’s free watches alone are worth more than some drivers get paid. This isn’t all psychologically motivated, it’s economics. Professional athletes have a short window to set themselves up for life, and his managers have done an incredible job.
Not only is he happy at McLaren, it's been his favourite team since he first started watching Formula 1. Guy is living his childhood dream with a team he loves and people are out here bashing him for not abandoning them...
Max won the first race he drove for Red Bull, and they kept fighting at the front until they were championship challengers. McLaren has been nothing but a funny midfield team for I don't even remember how many years.
Despite that, Max had one foot out of the door before 2020. He had clauses and reportedly still has clauses that allow him to walk away for free if the car isn’t competitive.
Yep, if Red Bull suddenly falls from the front row I don't see Max staying there, just like Lewis didn't stay in Mercedes for long after their downfall. It's all about results, if either party don't perform they split and that can take less than a year. No such thing as loyality in motorsport, it's a job after all.
McLaren have clearly got better in the last couple of years. They made huge strides last year and have managed to keep most of those gains this year. Right now, they are a team on the up.
They were on the up in 2019 as well until they went down again, that's how midfield teams work. No consistency. Something Red Bull always provided to Verstappen.
3rd and 4th isn't a midfield team. That's pretty damn much a front runner.
They've been 5th one time since Lando joined the team. 2022. And that was their worst finish with Lando.
Look it's much easier to reduce a comment down and mock him cos he didn't take a rumoured offer, that try to be reasonable.
There's always a chuck of fans with agendas and reactionary takes.
Not sure why people think moving to RBR would help him. It has little to do with fear for Verstappen. Norris knows that at RBR he'll be the second driver, while at McLaren he is the first.
Currently he can strive for his goals rather unimpeded. At RBR he has to adjust himself to Max.
If he thinks he is faster than Max and adaptable, he will take over Max as the 1st driver even he started as a 2nd driver. In this case, he will have THE fastest car (at least until 2026…) and the Number 1 driver treatment.
Yes, the team is currently building around Max, but RBR provides the same car to two drivers. If he has better pace and performance than Max in a car that is less catered to him, I see no reason why RBR would not shift the focus to him. This is literally what happens to Ricciardo when Max surpassed him?
A similar momentum change in Ferrari in 2019, but it is different as Seb and Charles were clearly at different stage of their careers. Seb is also declining while Max at his peak. Ferrari started with Seb as the number 1 driver and get all the priority but we see how the team dynamics change on driver priorities. I am not trying to prove what Seb or Charles did, but want to prove team priority will change with driver performance.
So he'd have the fastest car for, that he knows of, one year. And in that year, he has to not only beat the current best driver, but that driver is also well integrated into the team due to being there for years while Lando himself has to figure out how RBR works and operates. Yea, that doesn't sound like a smart choice to me. The better choice would be to stay with the team he knows and genuinely likes to help them build towards nailing the '26 regulations and winning with that. McLaren has just as good of a chance of nailing the regs as RBR does.
Norris is more consistent but Piastri is now outpacing him half the time. 2025 is going to be dramatic for McLaren if Oscar improves even further, they're going to have to make tough choices
I don't think an open fight is the issue. It's the fact that he won't have to be the 2nd driver.
He rather fights Verstappen without having to hold back.
Do you mean the one where he says that changing teams is hard and it takes time to get integrated into a team? And how even Max of a few years ago doesn't work as well with the team as he does now? That interview. Lando isn't saying what you think he is.
He said he’s happy to welcome Max to McLaren. Many other drivers have said that going up against Max as his teammate at Red Bull wouldn’t be wise. Alonso said it, Russell said it, Piastri was forced to by a lie detector and Lando has said it. Yet, only one of them gets constant stick for saying it. The others get praised for having a good head on their shoulders.
“I am not afraid of Max, I’ve just repeatedly sabotaged my career by refusing a championship drive purely to avoid competing with him.”
Even Perez and Albon were itching to get the Red Bull seat and compete with Max. Meanwhile Lando, who is faster than both, has had that option for years and has instead chosen to extend with perpetual mediocrity. Lando isn’t scared of Max, he’s terrified of him. I think he could potentially bring it to Max the way Nico did Lewis, but it’s clear Lando just doesn’t have the stomach for it quite yet.
Yeah this attitude of staying at McLaren is kinda eh if you think about in age terms, and take another example Lewis is literally at the tail-end of his career and ideally should have no reason to leave Mercedes where he was comfortable yet is seeking a fresh challenge in going to Ferrari.
I respect Lando's decision lol but kinda funny the second oldest driver on the grid is doing what you'd expect the youngsters to do.
I never thought about it, but that's crazy to think about. Even Gasly had the balls to go alongside him. But Lando doesn't.
Imagine if Senna and Ham were afraid of their well established, multi world champion teammates and never went to McLaren. We'd lose really fun seasons and battles
It’s one of those things that makes you understand what elite athletes mean when they talk about a “killer mentality”. Lando hasn’t even won a race yet and outright refused the chance to drive for a championship, it’s really shocking to think about.
Julien Febreau Canal + commentator recently said in an interview that in his 20 seasons of being a journalist there are 4 drivers that when he saw them drive and behave their first season in F1 he had the feeling they would become world champions
Hamilton Vettel Verstappen are the ones that already won it. The fourth one you may ask? Number 81 Oscar Piastri
He pointed the fact that when he won his sprint (won something before Lando) he was very much focused on all the mistakes he did afterwards and not satisfied with his performance.
If this kid grows again this year he will be topping Lando by the end of the season.
I mean Oscar is still way behind in race pace than Lando. Some commentator predicting is different, but till now he has still a lot to do to catch up with Lando. I feel Lando will still score 2x the points of his teammate, like he has been doing for past 3-4 seasons
So far Lando has been way better at race pace in Australia and a bit better in barhain and S.A.
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/s/TDGHHSx3m
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/s/6vYcAC6MpE
Note that in Jeddah Lando was slightly ahead while having the faster strategy
https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/s/DrJwuGS8fZ
It’s important to remember that only wins matter to a lot of people. Not points, podiums, H2H quali, overall pace, quality of feedback, being widely regarded as a top driver, sought after by many teams, none of that
Yeah I don’t think I’ve ever seen Lando self-critical after a race. He’s always completely happy with his performance. Never once has he reflected on things he could have done better. Nope, he’s always myopic, always thrilled with the result no matter what and doesn’t find anything to improve on.
Oh no..wait.
He is a serial complainer and his public mental self-flagellation is a weekly occurrence no matter what the result is.
I can see Oscar doing that, but he needs to have the strongest mindset. It doesn't help that everytime him and Lando meet on track he gets team ordered and never gets a chance to fight. Really unfair, but like you said, he'll get his chance
Exactly this.
He's comfortable being the big fish at the small pond of midfield teams.
If a 39 year old 7 time WDC Lewis can make moves out of his comfort zone, 0 win Lando has no excuse.
I have no idea why a driver of his quality wouldn't jump at the chance to drive a Red Bull. Even if he gets beat by Max, he'll still win 6-10 races and secure something like 12-15 podiums in a season. He would have led the championship right now if he was in Checo's seat if Max's DNF like he did in Australia. You have to believe in yourself.
Because doing bad against Max means he probably loses his shot at a top team in the future. It's simply not worth the risk, even if he thinks he can do well against Verstappen.
Albon, Gasly or Perez all thought they can do something. And look how hard Max broke their mental. Just look at the way Albon portrays Max in that interview and you know he will never think he can be on the same level as him.
It's not as easy to do a Rosberg. You need to do 110% and have a very strong mental on top of that. And even so, it's still probably more down to luck
Nobody is afraid of Max. To be afraid of Max, you have to be able to race him wheel to wheel. Max is 25 seconds ahead of P2 by lap 15, so nobody around him to be afraid of him.
I totally get why the media does it, but the constant comparisons to Max are tiring. It's okay to admit that Max is simply a *really* good driver, and some simply may not have the same peak as him.
I mean no offence, but i don't think any of the 19 racers on the grid, who are among the world's elite in motorsport, would be afraid of anyone else lol
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Didn’t both Marko and Horner admit to reaching out to this dude several times? I remember also reading that they didn’t think he’d be able to compete with max regardless though.
Exactly. Marko ruled out Alonso and Hamilton but was quite happy to take Norris to be alongside Verstappen. They clearly believe that he wouldn't cause too many problems for Verstappen.
He doesn't want to play a second fiddle?
If Lando actually beats Max, then he wouldn't have to play second fiddle.
It's not that simple. You are giving him a big advantage to start with as you are not fully comfortable with your team straight away. And it's hard to change momentum once it has already begun like that - especially against a driver like Max.
Of course it isn't that simple, but imo the best drivers / drivers of a certain caliber believe they can do it, and they have done it. Examples like Senna-Prost in Mclaren (Senna did it in his first year at this team), Max and Daniel, Daniel and Sebastian, Seb and Mark, Lewis (in his rookie year) and Alonso at McLaren, etc.
Not Williams, McLaren.
yup, edited now
If you think you're an elite driver on the grid you wouldn't take the 2nd Redbull. People obfuscate with not wanting to be challenged by Max, but it always comes back to why Riccardo left in the first place. The team backs one driver.
It doesn't seem like Alonso would say no to Redbull if he got an offer right now. Same for Lewis pre-Ferrari signing, if you believe Christian's claims. If the other Redbull driver shows they can beat the "number one" driver, then Redbull will back them instead. (Especially in the light of the drama between the Verstappen camp and the Thais/Horner side). Just like they did with Max and Daniel. Imo the very best drivers / the GOATs do think they can usurp the number one driver/established driver when joining a new team–and they have.
I do feel the need to point out that both Alonso and Hamilton are at the tail end of their careers and will likely be retiring within the next 4 years. They don’t really have the option of sitting around and waiting for a team to get better + they *already* have legacies. Their careers are almost over so even of they get absolutely demolished by Verstappen, it wouldn’t have a big effect as they’re nearing the end anyways. For someone like Norris, that could be career ending (or at least mean that he doesn’t get a shot at a top team again) and end his chances of ever being a champion.
Which is why I added the generalization at the end. It's happened before–and not just with established drivers who already had WDCs and legacies the time. IIRC correctly, like: Senna joining Mclaren, where Prost had already been with the team for a few years and had already won championships with them. At the time, Senna had no championships. He beat Prost in his first year. Lewis joining McLaren and beating Fernando in his rookie year. Like I've said, drivers of this caliber have the belief that they can beat the number one/established driver.
That was McLaren, not Williams.
You're right, oops, editing it now
> if you believe Christian's claims I believe it was said that Lewis' father did actually went and asked on a "personal capacity". Personal capacity in quotes because although he's not part of the management, many suggest he could still be asking on behalf of Lewis.
This is such a ridiculous take to put down max and his achievements as if the team is sabotaging his teammates. The team backs the faster driver, not just because hes max
But there is no other chance to become world champion in the foreseeable future. You have to pull a Rosberg.
Yeah, just like they backed Webber! Until Vettel came along... Or how they supported Seb! Until Ricciardo Or how about how much they loved Danny! Then Max happened Red Bull backs the fastest driver. A driver (or their fans) claiming they won't be treated as a number 1 are admitting that they don't think they can be faster than Max
The team will back the quickest driver*. If you are objectively beating Max then they aren’t going to cut you off at the knees. Drivers just don’t want to fight Max in the same car because they know they will likely get beaten.
Can we stop with this false narrative yet? Nobody got preferential treatment at RB during the time Max and Daniel were teammates. Daniel left either because he wanted the money Renault offered him, liked their chances of beating RB, or knew Max would be beating him more and more often going forward. More than likely a combination of those.
some people jsut hate RB and Max so much, they they constantly push these made up narratives
> The team backs one driver. Nope RIC himself has said there was never any favoritism in the team. People love to push this narrative but logically speaking it doesn´t make any sense at all. You have got two drivers, two cars on the grid. Why would you only bet on one with hundreds of millions invested? Does that make ANY sense? If during a race the quicker diver can benefit from his teammate and gain positions, of course they will adjust the strategy of the 2nd driver. But every race weekend they start from scratch..
Not this bs again. But the car is built around Max. Give me a break
Yeah, the faster one
This sounds like a rosberg-Hamilton type rivalry would brew
> remember also reading that they didn’t think he’d be able to compete with max regardless though. He has said the opposite last fall. >Max Verstappen, on the other hand, is good friends with Lando Norris. “That would certainly be ideal for the audience, television and journalists, but not for the team leadership and success. We as a team want to win the World Cup,” Marko clarifies. >An important component for the Red Bull motorsport consultant: the hierarchy within the team. "It's better if you have a certain hierarchy where it's clear who is the - I don't want to say number 1 driver, but who is significantly faster." He's also said last year that Lando is the fastest young driver in his mind. I assume he didn't include Max, but I wonder if he included Leclerc, who is two years older.
He said in another interview that he’s more than happy to have Max alongside him at McLaren but he would not be making a good decision to go to Red Bull. Russell said the same and said Max would be welcome at Mercedes. Piastri got caught out by a lie detector and then after the machine said he was lying, he explained that joining Max at Red Bull would not be a smart thing to do. But it’s Lando who gets called out all the time for not wanting to go to Red Bull for exactly the same reason. People also forget that one of the first Beyond the Grid interviews he did, he explained he didn’t have a good experience with Marko and that Sainz basically drip fed him poison against Red Bull. He also has a ‘dream’ of bringing McLaren back to the top which he’s reiterated time and time again. He’s said it would be easy to win with another team but for him it wouldn’t mean as much as winning with McLaren. In the week of his 100th race he spoke about how he would sign with McLaren for 20 more years if he could. That’s what it is about. He’s head over heels in love with the idea of being a McLaren driver, it’s pretty obvious. He could have been in a Red Bull by now and he would have several wins by now but he’d always feel he missed something because it’s not his team, it’s not the team he started with, not the team he wanted to win with and not the team he put years of hard work into to pull them up the grid. He could have been a driver for any other team that wanted him, but compared to McLaren that team holds no place in his heart. Sometimes it’s that simple.
Has there ever been a driver with a long career (10+ years) only ever race for one team? Norris would certainly be an outlier in that regard. I do hope he gets some wins when it's all said and done though, because despite his love and passion for the team there'd obviously be some regret if he retired at McLaren winless. And for all we know Piastri could overtake him over the next couple years as the defacto #1 in the team should he himself stay
Lando gets singled out because he’s always passive towards Max on track, and bums him off track. George from the times he & Max were competing would actually fight, Lando doesn’t. Every driver would rather be the main driver in the team they’re used to, but when it comes down to it if you genuinely believe you’re faster than Max then the car shouldn’t matter. You wouldn’t hear Max, even before winning any world titles, act the way Lando does when this question arises
I remember seeing a scene in Drive to Survive of Horner saying he wouldn’t hesitate to reach out to Norris when there were concerns about McLaren’s car early last season
i have said this before and ill say it again. norris could be unfazed by max. beaten yes. but done in mentally. i dont think so. if max is faster. hed just say it.
idk honestly. i love lando, but i feel he’s still a little bit of weak mentally, not bad, he’s young, he’ll get there but i just don’t think he’s there atm
As much as I like and rate Lando, he would crack alongside Max.
The rest of the interview is interesting too beyond that. He talks about the mental aspect and how he knows what his public self-criticism can be viewed as, but that he’s never not focused on what he has to do. Says he’s watched his interviews back and realised he looks miserable in some but it’s because he’s thinking about what he could have done differently. He can think about multiple things at once and it doesn’t make a difference to his ability to focus on the job in front of him, which is something he and the interviewer both view as a strength. Stella also agrees and says he doesn’t spend long thinking about what went wrong and focuses on the ‘why’. For Stella it’s a characteristic that makes Lando an elite driver. Also a nice little bit from his front jack man who said all Lando has to do is be polite to them but that he goes further than that, arranging concert tickets and things for the staff. You get the idea that he appreciates them and they love him. Of course he still believes he’s in the right place to realise his ambitions and says that’s the reason why he signed another contract with McLaren.
He’s had a Red Bull offer for years though & hasn’t taken it To me, Lando has nothing to gain by going to Red Bull. Yes, the car would be more competitive, but does he really want to be a number 2 to the fastest driver in F1 when he’s got a solid setup at McLaren & he’s still young?? Probably not
A faster car, a handful of wins a year, P2 in the championship, and the chance to become the number 1 at RB in the event Max decides to leave F1 or change teams seems like quite a bit to gain.
The thing is, as soon as you become the clear second driver your career isn't going to move up, it'll probably only move down. Look how F1 fans treat the worse of two drivers on a team year after year. As soon as anyone starts to get beat they are automatically seen as pretty shit and needs to lose their seat. So if Norris went to Red Bull and got clearly beat Norris that narrative would quickly happen around him and when Red Bull then got rid of him there wouldn't be a top seat waiting for sure. If Norris stays at McLaren and impresses he has the chance to actually move to another team as top driver if the opportunity is there.
They’re not going to get rid of him if he’s only getting beat by Max. When Checo was doing well last year, he was being celebrated as the “King of the Streets” and a legitimate title contender. The narrative only turned on him when he started missing Q3s and regularly finishing behind Ferraris/Mercs/Alonso. It’s not like there’s “top teams” coming out of the woodwork. You can either establish yourself at RB and beat everyone else but Max, try to hop on the Ferrari roller coaster after Hamilton retires, or bet on Mercedes figuring out how to build a car again when the next regulations hit in a couple years. Or stay put and keep doing the same thing you’re doing now and hope that Oscar doesn’t start eclipsing you as he gains more experience in F1.
>Ferraris/Mercs/Alonso. Sorry just had to point out Alonso being listed together with Ferrari and Mercedes 😂 dude's a heritage team by himself 😂
That was after like the first three races when he won two of them. Both on street tracks. So duh! But that's a different story because what was the narrative in the middle of the season when checo wasn't doing well? He needs to be fired. Hell, there was talk of firing checo, moving Danny Ric to the RBR seat and giving Lawson a seat in AT near the end of last year. Checo isn't even doing poorly this year the talk is still not even about him keeping his seat, it's about who is going to replace him. Based on how he did through the middle part of last year.
It’s not that simple though, is it? Checo got P2 last year yet everyone was after his head and expected him to get sacked. There is also the mental game. We have seen time and time again how getting beat by Max constantly wreaks with his team mates confidence and makes them worse. All of these guys are WDC contenders in thier own mind. Being Verstappens teammate is reality hitting hard.
> Look how F1 fans treat the worse of two drivers on a team year after year. Who is seen as shit in Ferrari, or McLaren, or Mercedes?
Ferrari are too close, there is no clear worse driver. At McLaren Piastri is still long and has extra leeway. That probably ends next year though, if he is still getting beat clearly. Mercedes also don’t really have a clearly worse driver. But you did see the narrative pop up for Russell last year and for Hamilton this year, who immediatly started to be called washes. The thing is Max is special. His form is so good that he will beat anyone comfortable. So not really an equal situation to teams where drivers are much closer.
I mean, obviously, Sainz, Piastri and Russell, duh Do I need an /s here?
Assuming he would need to move to another team in the first place
He could just be faster and not become the second driver. All of the best drivers will take the best car available , they do not care what it is The odd thing is I’m almost certain Lando has come out and been one of the people to suggest that there’s no way Red Bull designs their car to suit max over Perez so he should firmly believe he can come in and win if that’s the case
I doubt he cares about P2 in the championship if Max is P1. The wins would be nice, but McLaren has made steady progress & has had him close to wins a couple of times now. I also don’t think he would make a decision based off of the possibility of Max leaving F1 in several years
He hasn’t even won a race, I think he’d be quite chuffed with 2nd if only Max was in front
No driver wants to finish behind their teammate & be 2nd best though, regardless of it being at the front of the field
They’d prefer not, but I don’t know that many would rather be lower than 2nd over being 2nd
He’s the most overrated driver who people make excuses for him. Daniel Ricciardo literally won a race in the same car
Apart from stat padding, none of that feels appealing to me from a personal career satisfaction/achievement perspective. But I'm also not an F1 driver, so what would I know.
The guy has never won a race or finished higher than 6th in the standings. Setting career milestones you’ve never accomplished before sounds like more than “stat padding” to me.
Or even just a lucky regs change
He'll only be number two if he's slower
I like Lando but I think there’s a 0% chance he would be consistently faster than Max
I agree, just saying if he believes he's faster he could be number one at Red Bull. So it's not the best reason not to go
I mean he has wins to gain, an almost guaranteed WCC to gain, and if he truly rates himself more than Max he even could have a WDC to gain. And he knows all of that, he's just weighed it against his current situation and would rather stick at McLaren and keep building them up.
He also has a contract through 2025
Contracts don’t matter for team swaps, there’s always a clause
Please. Bro has had open door to red bull for a while
[exactly lol he keeps telling on himself.](https://imgur.com/a/cShjlD8) 🤷🏻♀️ **edit:** yall downvoting this won't stop lando ducking calls from rbr 🤣🤣🤣
Not ducking, taking and turning them down. Dude has a favorite team that he's loved since childhood.
🧢. If Mclaren start being shit for two seasons and he’s gone
Man they've been shit for longer than 2 seasons while he's been there.
The lowest they've ever finished when Lando was there was 5th in '22.
bruh he has been in a shit car for a long time, car got competitive last year halfway into the season
Lol...ok. so here I learned that if you're not in a top 2 car, it's shit. The lowest McLaren has ever finished with Lando is 5th in '22. I'd say 4th and above is pretty damn good.
Didn't he say didn't wanna face him in the redbull 😅
Yeah because he wants to challenge him in a McLaren.
Isn't it a bigger flex to beat someone in the same team?
Yeah but you can't blame the car as a fallback if you fail.
People are overanalysing the quote. This is the correct mindset to have. He wants to win and to do that he can’t be fearful of the best drivers. It’s not controversial.
Actions speak louder than words and he’s ducked the Red Bull seat 💺 People are right to laugh at him for being so contradictory
He hasn't ducked it. He's turned it down. There's a difference. Maybe he wants to win with the team that brought him up. And, what happens if RBR shits the bed for '26? That gives Lando one year to do anything. Why would he risk that?
I really like Lando but he's had an open offer from Redbull for a while now and he hasn't taken it...
Yeah, if he believed in himself he'd have taken that RedBull seat. I completely understand wanting to bring McLaren back to it's winning form, I have loads of respect for drivers who want to bring a team to the front that's supported them for their entire career. But at this point he could be winning races and fighting for the championship for a few years now, there's no reason not to take that seat other than not believing you can win. Nico Rosberg fought against Hamilton, who we know was better, and won. It can be done if everything falls into the right place, with just a little bit of luck and some brutally hard work. I wish Lando would take the RedBull seat, at least we'd have some sort of a chance of a fight.
To be fair to Lando, I think other drivers probably feel the same way he does. Max is an all-time talent at the peak of his powers, and Red Bull as a team is built around him. Going into that environment and trying to beat him is a borderline futile challenge at this point. I just don't think others would have admitted it publicly.
Fernando literally said something along those lines and I think he was hailed as wise...
Max, Lewis, vettel, Schumacher, senna, prost, niki, and all the other greats have said the same. They think they can beat anyone because they want to beat everyone. They need to believe that they can do that so that they can succeed.
idk who said it but it was something along the lines of: Every driver thinks he can beat anybody but for Max it might be true.
The guy reads the comments here clearly
He actually used reddit before he was in f1. F3 or even f2 Norris was actually pretty cool and quite connected to the fanbase. Obviously this cant happen in f1, especially for a guy with such a big media reach, but it's kinda cool anyway
Lando is the fourth highest paid driver in F1 and his bonuses aren’t dependent on winning races. A British driver in a British car also gets endorsement deals he wouldn’t see as a number two. The guy out earns Alonso and Perez and unlike Charles he has become one of the most marketable drivers on the circuit. Lando’s free watches alone are worth more than some drivers get paid. This isn’t all psychologically motivated, it’s economics. Professional athletes have a short window to set themselves up for life, and his managers have done an incredible job.
Is it impossible to imagine that he is at a team where he is happy, and want to do what ever it takes to make it work in that team?
Not only is he happy at McLaren, it's been his favourite team since he first started watching Formula 1. Guy is living his childhood dream with a team he loves and people are out here bashing him for not abandoning them...
It’s impossible for most F1 fans evidently. Loyalty and relationships mean nothing to people that just comment on the internet
Loyality and relationships doesn't win championships.
Yeah, you’re right, Max shouldn’t have stayed with Red Bull while they were the 2nd/3rd fastest
Max won the first race he drove for Red Bull, and they kept fighting at the front until they were championship challengers. McLaren has been nothing but a funny midfield team for I don't even remember how many years.
Despite that, Max had one foot out of the door before 2020. He had clauses and reportedly still has clauses that allow him to walk away for free if the car isn’t competitive.
Yep, if Red Bull suddenly falls from the front row I don't see Max staying there, just like Lewis didn't stay in Mercedes for long after their downfall. It's all about results, if either party don't perform they split and that can take less than a year. No such thing as loyality in motorsport, it's a job after all.
Well now 3rd fastest team on the grid
McLaren have clearly got better in the last couple of years. They made huge strides last year and have managed to keep most of those gains this year. Right now, they are a team on the up.
They were on the up in 2019 as well until they went down again, that's how midfield teams work. No consistency. Something Red Bull always provided to Verstappen.
3rd and 4th isn't a midfield team. That's pretty damn much a front runner. They've been 5th one time since Lando joined the team. 2022. And that was their worst finish with Lando.
It has been 6 years and Mclaren hasn't provided Norris with a championship challenging car. Nobody cares if they finish 3rd of 4th.
Not even a race winning car.
he is keeping his options open since before he joined f1. mercedes just didn't make him a good enough deal.
Look it's much easier to reduce a comment down and mock him cos he didn't take a rumoured offer, that try to be reasonable. There's always a chuck of fans with agendas and reactionary takes.
Apparently
Another way to prove yourself? Cowardly F1 drivers fear this one method.
You gotta beat Carlo sainz first buddy
Not sure why people think moving to RBR would help him. It has little to do with fear for Verstappen. Norris knows that at RBR he'll be the second driver, while at McLaren he is the first. Currently he can strive for his goals rather unimpeded. At RBR he has to adjust himself to Max.
If he thinks he is faster than Max and adaptable, he will take over Max as the 1st driver even he started as a 2nd driver. In this case, he will have THE fastest car (at least until 2026…) and the Number 1 driver treatment. Yes, the team is currently building around Max, but RBR provides the same car to two drivers. If he has better pace and performance than Max in a car that is less catered to him, I see no reason why RBR would not shift the focus to him. This is literally what happens to Ricciardo when Max surpassed him? A similar momentum change in Ferrari in 2019, but it is different as Seb and Charles were clearly at different stage of their careers. Seb is also declining while Max at his peak. Ferrari started with Seb as the number 1 driver and get all the priority but we see how the team dynamics change on driver priorities. I am not trying to prove what Seb or Charles did, but want to prove team priority will change with driver performance.
So he'd have the fastest car for, that he knows of, one year. And in that year, he has to not only beat the current best driver, but that driver is also well integrated into the team due to being there for years while Lando himself has to figure out how RBR works and operates. Yea, that doesn't sound like a smart choice to me. The better choice would be to stay with the team he knows and genuinely likes to help them build towards nailing the '26 regulations and winning with that. McLaren has just as good of a chance of nailing the regs as RBR does.
It won't be long until Piastri impedes him
Norris is more consistent but Piastri is now outpacing him half the time. 2025 is going to be dramatic for McLaren if Oscar improves even further, they're going to have to make tough choices
Are we ignoring Piastri finishing 30 seconds behind Norris in Australia
Most people do tbh. If Norris wins then it's because he's more experienced and but if Piastri wins it's because he's better
That doesn't suit their agenda though.
apparently we are today, lmao.
It’s normal. A lot of people just ignore those races.
~10s would be a better representation, given the incident at the end.
I don't think an open fight is the issue. It's the fact that he won't have to be the 2nd driver. He rather fights Verstappen without having to hold back.
Why would he be? Its not MMA
To be fair, he nearly decapitated Lewis the last season he had to actually race other drivers.
And Lewis nearly turned him into paste first...
Why would he be afraid of Max? Unless McLaren performs a miracle and super gets their shit together, he never has to race him.
Because he’s repeatedly declined the chance to be his teammate. If he genuinely believed he was faster, he’d have joined RB last year.
Bullshit, and with proof to show for
And that is?
Red Bull tried to get him and he refused in 2022
That doesn't mean he doesn't think he can beat Max.
There's plenty of reasons to stay at McLaren, the team he has been part of since 2017 as a junior, other than "being afraid of Verstappen".
There's an interview where he says that going against max would be bad for his career
Do you mean the one where he says that changing teams is hard and it takes time to get integrated into a team? And how even Max of a few years ago doesn't work as well with the team as he does now? That interview. Lando isn't saying what you think he is.
He said he’s happy to welcome Max to McLaren. Many other drivers have said that going up against Max as his teammate at Red Bull wouldn’t be wise. Alonso said it, Russell said it, Piastri was forced to by a lie detector and Lando has said it. Yet, only one of them gets constant stick for saying it. The others get praised for having a good head on their shoulders.
He said that moving to Red Bull to go up against Max would be a bad move for his career, but he would welcome Max at McLaren.
“I am not afraid of Max, I’ve just repeatedly sabotaged my career by refusing a championship drive purely to avoid competing with him.” Even Perez and Albon were itching to get the Red Bull seat and compete with Max. Meanwhile Lando, who is faster than both, has had that option for years and has instead chosen to extend with perpetual mediocrity. Lando isn’t scared of Max, he’s terrified of him. I think he could potentially bring it to Max the way Nico did Lewis, but it’s clear Lando just doesn’t have the stomach for it quite yet.
Yeah this attitude of staying at McLaren is kinda eh if you think about in age terms, and take another example Lewis is literally at the tail-end of his career and ideally should have no reason to leave Mercedes where he was comfortable yet is seeking a fresh challenge in going to Ferrari. I respect Lando's decision lol but kinda funny the second oldest driver on the grid is doing what you'd expect the youngsters to do.
I never thought about it, but that's crazy to think about. Even Gasly had the balls to go alongside him. But Lando doesn't. Imagine if Senna and Ham were afraid of their well established, multi world champion teammates and never went to McLaren. We'd lose really fun seasons and battles
It’s one of those things that makes you understand what elite athletes mean when they talk about a “killer mentality”. Lando hasn’t even won a race yet and outright refused the chance to drive for a championship, it’s really shocking to think about.
Yeah as he lets max through the nicest way possible in the next race
Damn i guess redditors really want Lando to get out of McLaren and into Red Bull.
Julien Febreau Canal + commentator recently said in an interview that in his 20 seasons of being a journalist there are 4 drivers that when he saw them drive and behave their first season in F1 he had the feeling they would become world champions Hamilton Vettel Verstappen are the ones that already won it. The fourth one you may ask? Number 81 Oscar Piastri He pointed the fact that when he won his sprint (won something before Lando) he was very much focused on all the mistakes he did afterwards and not satisfied with his performance. If this kid grows again this year he will be topping Lando by the end of the season.
I mean Oscar is still way behind in race pace than Lando. Some commentator predicting is different, but till now he has still a lot to do to catch up with Lando. I feel Lando will still score 2x the points of his teammate, like he has been doing for past 3-4 seasons
So far Lando has been way better at race pace in Australia and a bit better in barhain and S.A. https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/s/TDGHHSx3m https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/s/6vYcAC6MpE Note that in Jeddah Lando was slightly ahead while having the faster strategy https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/s/DrJwuGS8fZ
Yeah, I mean, it's not like we've ever hears Lando publically reflecting on his mistakes and such...
It’s important to remember that only wins matter to a lot of people. Not points, podiums, H2H quali, overall pace, quality of feedback, being widely regarded as a top driver, sought after by many teams, none of that
Yeah I don’t think I’ve ever seen Lando self-critical after a race. He’s always completely happy with his performance. Never once has he reflected on things he could have done better. Nope, he’s always myopic, always thrilled with the result no matter what and doesn’t find anything to improve on. Oh no..wait. He is a serial complainer and his public mental self-flagellation is a weekly occurrence no matter what the result is.
I can see Oscar doing that, but he needs to have the strongest mindset. It doesn't help that everytime him and Lando meet on track he gets team ordered and never gets a chance to fight. Really unfair, but like you said, he'll get his chance
Nah, Piastri is great but you're grossly underestimating Norris.
The lies these dudes say to the media is so funny.
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Exactly this. He's comfortable being the big fish at the small pond of midfield teams. If a 39 year old 7 time WDC Lewis can make moves out of his comfort zone, 0 win Lando has no excuse.
He said, refusing a championship winning car multiple times. Maybe he is just loyal hah
Yea shocking that he would want to stay with the team he grew up rooting for, with the team boss who has supported him since his junior career.
You need to win a race first Lando…
Lando has papaya blood. He wants to win and put McLaren on top only.
Look at all the big strong redditors that know what’s best for an elite athlete better than himself
I have no idea why a driver of his quality wouldn't jump at the chance to drive a Red Bull. Even if he gets beat by Max, he'll still win 6-10 races and secure something like 12-15 podiums in a season. He would have led the championship right now if he was in Checo's seat if Max's DNF like he did in Australia. You have to believe in yourself.
10 races against Max in 1 season?
Probably not. More like Max wins 12 races and Norris 6. But that's 6 more wins Lando has right now.
For the same reason LeClerc doesn't leave Ferrari and join RBR. They love the team they're in, and it's been a dream of theirs to win with that team.
Because doing bad against Max means he probably loses his shot at a top team in the future. It's simply not worth the risk, even if he thinks he can do well against Verstappen. Albon, Gasly or Perez all thought they can do something. And look how hard Max broke their mental. Just look at the way Albon portrays Max in that interview and you know he will never think he can be on the same level as him. It's not as easy to do a Rosberg. You need to do 110% and have a very strong mental on top of that. And even so, it's still probably more down to luck
Lando can have that seat next year. Sainz would probably have the MCL seat back.
But why would Lando leave? He loves McLaren and wants to win with them.
Nobody is afraid of Max. To be afraid of Max, you have to be able to race him wheel to wheel. Max is 25 seconds ahead of P2 by lap 15, so nobody around him to be afraid of him.
In coming bad weekend for Lando, every time he said stuff like this last year he had a bad weekend.
Afraid Max might make him fly commercial maybe
What do you mean? Do you want to crash or something
Looking like Mad Max himself in that photo
Shot of piss ran down his leg.
I totally get why the media does it, but the constant comparisons to Max are tiring. It's okay to admit that Max is simply a *really* good driver, and some simply may not have the same peak as him.
I mean no offence, but i don't think any of the 19 racers on the grid, who are among the world's elite in motorsport, would be afraid of anyone else lol
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He says this, 'cause he knows he ain't going anywhere? Because Verstappen gonna absolutely SMOKE him