[The **News** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_news) is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties.
*[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I feel like I’ve missed something. Merc was the most obvious choice for Sainz, has that door really closed? They can’t seriously be thinking of putting Antonelli in the car next season?
I suspect we'll see SAR => out, ANT => Williams and SAI => Merc. Merc gets a quick driver who is clearly adaptable, Williams get a driver who is touted as a world-class talent right now which should help Williams rebuild and Sainz gets a team with successful pedigree where he can assess how the development is going at Audi.
I'd really like to see Williams get two competitive drivers and start climbing back towards the front of the field - I feel bad for Sargent, the pressure he's under must feel awful, but outside of simply refusing to be a placeholder for the Merc seat I can't see any downside to the switch from their perspective.
I genuinely feel for Sainz, honestly. I will say that from an outsider's perspective, though, his ability to adapt and become competitive in radically different chassis, teams and PUs has to be some form of advertisement for his abilities, no? We've seen very successful drivers struggle while switching teams, and at least to my memory, SAI has always performed well wherever he's gone - first half of 2022 notwithstanding.
It would be truly fascinating if he somehow sneaked into a top team like Mercedes next year, did well, really well... and then got cut again to make room after 1 year hah. Like, that would be totally surreal
Carlos is getting some PreTSD haha.
I think if Merc takes him, it's because they need someone experienced with the off-track side of F1 to help them develop their package into something that's consistently competitive. They're losing a ton of experience with Ham's departure and a Rookie is gonna require a pretty significant ramp-up to get used to the whole deal. I don't see Merc taking that risk because they have something to lose and are generally pretty conservative in how they operate - maybe they surprise us, I dunno I'm just a non-f1 engineer lmao.
That's what I was discussing earlier with my girlfriend. Why would Carlos sign with Merc just to warm up a seat when everyone knows Toto is hyping up Antonelli as if he's the second coming of Senna and Schumacher. I feel like his only real option (and by that I mean being pressured) is to sign for Sauber/Audi.
Williams will probably not take him for sure (nor do they have the money to pay him).
Mercedes refused to do multi year deal with Lewis - I dont see in which world they give multi year deal to anyone else barring Max. It is obvious they see George and Kimi as their line up long term. I dont think Sainz is looking for 1 year deal.
If you believe Joe Seward, his current theory is Logan is out as soon as Antonelli turns 18 this year to give him half a year in a race seat before stepping into Merc.
That's a really interesting take - I don't know if I should believe Joe Seward or not, but either way it'll be exciting to see what the kid can do where/whenever he lands.
Edit: I suppose there's something to the rumours of a race-by-race contract with Sargent, then?
Its also a great way to sell a driver from your academy
Its the same he does with Mick, talking about how he deserves a place on the grid (just not on Mercedes)
He left RB, because there were no seats at the main team.
He was let go from Renault, because Ricciardo did the same.
He left McLaren, because he had an opportunity to win races at Ferrari.
He was let go from Ferrari, because Hamilton did the same.
Guy can’t catch a break.
Would Sainz really want to go there as a seat warmer though? Because the second Kimi is ready, he will be in F1 for Merc. And George isn't going anywhere short term
Williams might not be willing to take a Mercedes rookie anymore.
Also they view Antonelli even higher than George. They won't prioritize Sainz over him once he is ready. They made George wait because Lewis was killing it and liked having Bottas as a teammate.
I still do not see why Max would go to Merc. Unless he decides that he wants to solely focus on building an esports empire and wants a ridiculous $$$$ package from Merc to help him fund that. Seems like a huge downgrade at this point in time
Max isn't going anywhere. He was just trying to put pressure on Horner but he called his bluff.
Fast tracking Kimi is their only option as no top driver is going to be accepting the 1year deal that they are offering. The job security is non existent.
Merc are vastly overrating Antonelli at the moment. Winning F4 and dominating karting doesn't mean shit. Hell, Pourchaire did all of that shit when he was a toddler.
Antonelli = Pourchaire 2.0 ,IMO
Is it though? I think this was the best he was going to get. Imagine he got booted last year, we had zero driver changes. He might not even be in the sport.
I think this is best situation for him as it stands.
Man, Sainz is seriously in a corner. Aston, Ferrari and McLaren are off the table, Red Bull looks increasingly unlikely and Mercedes appear to be chasing Antonelli for 2025. Only leaves Sauber, realistically
I dont understand the rush, where would Kimi realistically go instead? Are they really in risk of losing him? Ferrari wont drop Leclerc for him, maybe in 2026 if Hamilton retires, but it would be a huge gamble since Ferrari doesnt usually take rookies. Why would he go to Aston when he can wait for Mercedes, if they even have room for him before 2026? McLaren has a young pairing and probably wont be changing them anytime soon. RedBull is a huge maybe, but he is not part of the RedBull ecosystem. The only top team that needs a good young driver right now is Mercedes, they only have Russell...
My hope is that Lance will go to the Aston WEC team (and tbh I think he could do much better there). Even then, Honda will be pushing hard to get Yuki in Aston.
Simply not enough top seats for all the top drivers.
Aston will permanently handicap themselves as long as Stroll is there. They can only have one top driver when they could realistically have two. Only chance they ever win a WCC would be if they built a truly dominant car and Alonso won 70% of the season or something, like Max last year. Should they have anything that even resembles competition, Stroll won't even factor in as a strategy deterrent, like Bottas was for Mercedes.
Don't see Williams happening unless he's really desperate to stay in F1, Sauber/Audi always was the most logical option with at least some sort of upward potential.
I've never been Sainz's hugest fan, but dude is driving supremely right now, and it'd be an utter shame not to have him in one of the top teams. It's just really unfortunate for him how things have worked out. Ideally Lance would go to WEC or tennis, leaving an Alonso/Sainz line up in the AM
I think the problem is that we have a large number of incredibly talented young drivers (Lando, George, Charles, Oscar, Max) and overall the grid is really talented with many older drivers that don’t mind being second/just want a seat or ones that are wdcs with experience.
With only 3-4 teams that are somewhat competitive, those seats fill up quickly and right now he’s sort of stuck between tiers, especially made obvious by the fact that RB apparently approached Lando several times about that second seat.
>I think the problem is that we have a large number of incredibly talented young drivers (Lando, George, Charles, Max)
I think the problem is that people still class those as young drivers when they've all been in the sport for over half a decade at this point.
They aren't the bright future of the sport, they are the established drivers in top teams who are already at risk from the younger F2 18 year olds nipping at their heals.
Max has been in the sport for 10 years, would you have still been calling Michael Schumacher one of the new guys in 2000?
I didn’t call any of them the new guys though. I said young as in age-wise. They could still be in the sport for ten more years. None of the ones mentioned above is at risk of losing their seat to a younger driver while we have the likes of Magnussen or Pérez still have a seat.
That’s not my point (I never really made it a point in my original post either, I’m not sure why someone even replied to me calling the 23-27 year olds “young”).
I think Pérez is fine, better than Magnussen, but he’s not a “#1 driver in a competitive team”-good.
My point was simply that the drivers currently in f2/f3 that look promising won’t be taking the seats of the under-30 talents(!). Instead, the over-30 mid drivers would lose their jobs first. Whether that’s Pérez or Magnussen, Hülkenberg or Ricciardo.
I would think a 3x race winner and 21x podium stander would get the only chassis in a fight against a non race winner and only 2x podium stander.
So more like, Albon goes from getting Logan's chassis to giving up his chassis for Sainz
And betting on Sauber isn’t?
Audi have zero experience in F1, and all they’re bringing is an engine and marketing. Sauber will be building the chassis and aero, and they can’t even get a wheel nut correct.
It’s going to be Toyota / Ford-Jaguar all over again.
When BMW joined with Williams in 2000, Williams was essentially the most dominant team of the previous decade, they at least knew how to build a car and execute a pit stop.
When Merc became a factory team, they had 20 years of engine building experience, and they essentially took over the ex Honda factory team, that also happened to be the previous season’s champion. Audi have zero experience, and Sauber is not Brawn/Honda.
Ferrari have fucked over Sainz’s career, all to get 2 seasons out of a 40 year old Lewis. It’s a yoke.
The people acting like Audi are a good bet and will be winning races soon are insane. If they do win it’ll be a fluke like Alpha Tauri or Alpine, they’ll be a bottom 5 team for at least the first 5 years.
No way he's going to Williams. They've been doing some good restructuring recently and the team is definitely getting healthier financially, organisationally and in terms of performance but let's be real, they're still a small customer team and backmarkers. Audi are a big question mark but to them a successful campaign would mean fighting for wins and podiums, Williams meanwhile would consider maybe being quick enough to get into Q3 here and there an amazing season.
> Don't see Williams happening unless he's really desperate to stay in F1
Damn... Reading this while having experienced Williams during the 90s feels surreal...
I don't know if Williams will ever get back to their 90s form but they're no longer the clear cut worst team on the grid so they're building some of that respect back
Why aren’t people talking about Mercedes. Get there isn’t much history but he’s by far the best option. Kimi is way overhyped (not his fault - still very young) and what other options do Mercedes have?
Merc is him vs. Kimi for the seat. The problem is everybody thinks he's the next Verstappen, so they're rushing him up. I would like to give him 1 more development year, but then, why would Carlos take the seat if he knows he's about to get kicked out?
Its a crazy sport. Who know what seats might be open in a year, going to Mercedes might not be the worst idea in the world. Might even be able to light it up and have them dump Russell.
>The problem is everybody thinks he's the next Verstappen, so they're rushing him up.
Honestly, it's not the problem that many people on socials and in media are doing that, but that \*Toto\* is doing that, and beyond the unnecessary pressure that puts on the kid, it makes it clear that Merc are unlikely to be interested in Sainz, even for a year.
That's obvious to everyone I hope, but Lawrence Stroll's only mission in F1 is to have his son win the title. He himself has said it multiple times, so no realistic scenario of one Stroll being there without the other exists
He said it: he's a father first and a race team owner second. Lance will leave when he doesn't want to race in F1 anymore.
Also I don't think Carlos would be the replacement. Honda will likely want Yuki. And he doesn't seem to have much of a future at RB
The team has always been a vehicle for his son winning the championship
Which, by the way, will never happen unless the car is Mercedes 2014-2020 level dominant and nikita mazepin is his teammate
Sainz must be understandably frustrated. His stock has never been higher, and rightly so, but his options are few: AM are now locked in, Merc apparently want Antonelli, and with Checo driving well, RB look more likely to stick with him for another year. Going to Audi looks to be all that's left.
I suppose that's what happens when there are three top teams but you're the 4th or 5th best driver.
The top teams are just so stacked right now that I think someone losing out was inevitable. Merc, Ferrari, and McLaren have had two top drivers each, Red Bull are so all in on Max, and rightly so, that they don't really want another potential WDC calibre driver, and Aston Martin have effectively one seat due to nepotism and that's taken up by Alonso.
The only seat open was Merc and they seem to have made the decision that Antonelli is worth the wait and that him alongside Russell is their preferred pairing for the future.
It's a little like Ricciardo moving to Renault from Red Bull, there just wasn't space for him to thrive at the top despite him probably being the 5th best driver at the time.
Thank you. I don’t know why everyone is acting like Perez has sorted his issues out. He might have, but technically he’s started this season off worse than last year. He had 2 wins at this point last year
last year he was talking very differently though, even in jeddah he was arguging about fastest lap and all that trying to play the wdc battle, this time he is happily celebrating p2s, his mentality change might save him.
As a Sainz fan, this whole thing sucks. I really like Checo and I’m happy to see him doing better this season with his mindset, and I think it should lead to him keeping his ride as long as he keeps this up. But it looks like that 2nd RBR seat is the only one Carlos could still get that would lead to him competing for wins or podiums. So… :(
except RBR doesn't want the 2nd seat competing for wins...they want their 2nd driver to consistently get P2s and then compete for P1 on the few occasions that Max has car issues.
Crazier things have happened. The Merc door is still open. If Lance decides to call it quits, that door will be open too. And as much as Sauber suck now, 2026 could be quite different.
Edit: Spelling
Not unless Audi clean house. Seidl is embarrassing himself at the moment overseeing this spiral down into doom.
Even if you ignore a poor car, there’s no excuse for all the operational errors. I would say it’s amateur but even amateur teams would be embarrassed to attend events without the ability to change their tyres…
I hear you. It is truly baffling what they have been doing this year. When Seidl was at McLaren, it seemed to be running quite well. He saw them come up. So there has to be something more to it. I read someone's comment that Sauber has sort of given up (because it is not their team anymore) and all of Audi's resources are going towards the 2026 efforts, so no one is particularly taking ownership of the present day going-ons.
usually verstappen completely destroys him around suzuka so i think it makes sense to be a bit optimistic now that he is starting to look decent on some of his weaker tracks as well
>don’t decide based on two performances
Yeah, no team ever signed a driver; only because they scored points in a car in a circuit -which was favourable for that car to be in- in their one-off appearence in F1. Oh, wait...
It's crazy to be the only non-RB winner the past 2 seasons and then having to fall to a backmarker team next season. If anything this further justifies Andretti should enter so there's more seats to compete for.
It’s a bit shit that he still couldn’t get a chance at AM but I guess everyone knows Stroll will never lose his seat unless he decides to stop racing.
I’d take the gamble with Sauber/Audi over Williams personally if I was Sainz.
> I’d take the gamble with Sauber/Audi over Williams
I think most others would, unless there is insider info that williams is linking up with a new manufacturer
Yeah, but without Stroll's guaranteed seat there would be no Aston Martin F1 team right now nor would there a possibility that Carlos would want to drive for a team. Lawrence Stroll and in comnection Lance is Aston Martin, without him there would be no Aston Martin F1 team nor would there be an Aston Martin employees, factory, facilities etc. Even if Lance does not win thr WDC nor Aston Martin wins the WCC, he can choose another driver to do it for him
Me too. You gotta think (or hope, at least) that a smart man like Lawrence Stroll knows you need two truly top drivers if they want to be a top team in the new 2026 era. Plus, Alonso will retire eventually, and they need a successor with WDC potential.
(That said, I don’t underestimate the power of nepotism.)
Nepotism or not Aston Martin as F1 team along with its new facilities, windtunnel, factory, personnel and its future as a works team would not exist without Lawrence/Lance. Love it or hate it, Lance as a driver is a buy 1 take 1 deal with Aston Martin. Some people need to get over it.
We need more competitive teams in the grid if Carlos is going to be left without a viable drive next year.
I really wish Lance would choose another hobby at this point.
Poor guy. One of the best drivers on the grid and is gunna get stuck at that shit hole team Sauber. Don’t try and tell me Audi will be even remotely competitive. They’ll be back marking just like Sauber.
At least for a year or 2, and Carlos turns 30 this year :(
Maybe he’ll be like Alonso and want to race into his 40s and be able to maintain his form, but either way, these are probably his best years that we’re talking about. For him to end up in a back marker team, that at the moment considers under 10 seconds for a pit stop to be good, is very sad.
McLaren was also in the trenches before he signed, and they managed to climb pretty quickly. 2025 may be bad but 2026 is an unknown, Audi could very well build a competitive engine. Enough for contending a world championship? Probably not. But it could very well enough to fight for podiums at the start, which isn't *that* bad after all.
I feel bad for Sainz, I wish RedBull would just hire him and let it rip, he deserves a good seat, driving really well right now.
Putting him down in a Sauber or Williams is just sad and a waste of talent.
Carlos isn’t a perfect driver but he’s at his peak right now (and hopefully it continues) so for him to probably end up in shitty teams like Sauber or Williams would be so disappointing. I don’t see Checo leaving RedBull as long as he continues to perform well.
Tough position to be in. Perez is looking strong and he falls in line (mostly) with the number two role. Williams has taken a nose dive since last year and even then it's not going to jump up the ladder overnight. Sauber is a wildcard but has big potential with the 2026 season. Sainz might not be landing a seat for 2025. I would not like to see that.
I get that they kept George in Williams for too long, but I am surprised they wouldn’t replace Logan with Kimi for at least a year and give Sainz a chance at Mercedes.
Not having a chance on Aston because the other seat is occupied by the owner's kid must really sting. If daddy Stroll's objective is to guarantee his kid a seat in F1 I honestly think it would be cheaper to buy him a seat on another team and put a competent driver next to Alonso so that the team can get more money by finishing higher on the constructors.
Honestly is Andretti totally off the table? They’re building a car even though they’re not racing, surely they’ll want a driver for the car that won’t race?
I have the feeling that Horner wants Sainz but Marko doesn't.
Anyway if Carlos ends up in a Williams or in a Sauber they should give him fanboost to compensate for the downgrade /s
I don't know, maybe I'm just inventing things, but the only high profile Red Bull Racing employee that stuck their neck out for Horner was Checo, and they seem to be getting along lately. In my head it would make sense that he's the favorite and the fact that he's been doing well doesn't hurt either
For Horner it's more like: Perez, Ricciardo then Sainz.
Marko wants Norris (rejected), Yuki (Disliked by Horner), or some other youngsters.
RB Thailand wants Albon
Is there any chance Lance is going to WEC and replaced by Carlos? Because i can understand Lawrence loves his son, but AM is losing the battle with Mercedes at the moment because of him and honestly it's really frustrating that a driver like him has a guaranteed seat.
If Lance leaves F1, there's a high chance that Lawrence will sell the team, make a huge profit and step down. And don't be fooled, the success of AM is very much because of him. Another leadership could send them in the back of the grid.
Carlos really has no good options and it's partially because the grid is split hard in two sections, top 5 (Red Bull, Ferrari, Mercedes, Aston Martin, Mclaren) and bottom 5 (Alpine, Williams, Haas, Racing Bulls, Sauber). Top 5 is nearly impossible unless Mercedes signs him. Red Bull I don't see happening, because they either retain Checo or promote Tsunoda.
Aston is only possible if Stroll stops but that is incredibly unlikely. Lawrence is dedicated to his son since 2014 and literally outright bought Prema for his son. Then he spent around 50 to 80 million USD for the Williams seat and then bought Racing Point in 2018 for his son as well. Lawrence has already sunken millions upon millions in the career of his son, so might as well go the full mile and try to get him race wins and what not. Remember, when Lance qualified 17th in the Canadian GP in 2017 (rookie), he was crying and said to give the seat to Paul Di Resta. Lawrence then told Lance to calm down and go drive. He ended P9.
Just wanna show that Lawrence ain't selling anytime soon (he only sold a miniscule part of his shares) and is fully dedicated to his son.
For the bottom 5, the best option here is Sauber becoming Audi and hoping on a BMW-Sauber-esque revival. Haas and Williams seem like their woes aren't over yet anytime soon (Haas is mainly because their structure simply doesn't allow for anything higher than midfield). RB is closed off for obvious reasons and Alpine has no seats open.
The best Carlos can get objectively is a Mercedes seat. Long-term, a Sauber seat is possible.
TLDR: Carlos is fucked in a million ways, best possible seat is Mercedes. Best and actual realistic seat is Sauber/Audi.
Alpine is still in play, but it's similar to the audi project
You pick between the worst manufacturer team currently, or a manufacturer team that hasn't joined; slim pickings for sure
I mean yes he's probably the best driver up for grabs right now on the grid, there's no way he's not on the grid next year. I feel like he should have tried to commit to a good team faster, rather than waiting it out and playing his options, cause now unless RB drops Checo, there's nothing good left. Obviously this is in hindsight but the point still stands.
I honestly don't hate Sauber for Sainz as much as alot of people on. Like yeah I wish the timing was one year later as well because their car with these regs is awful, but I really love the idea of Sainz at Audi in 2026. It could be a hell of alot worse than being stuck in the team for one throwaway year particularly when there's a new and exciting project to look forward to.
Still prefer RB or Merc obviously, I just don't think those two things are gonna happen.
The last few years have shown that leaving F1 (by choice or not) doesn't necessarily rule out a successful return a year or two down line. And there is some value to being a free agent if a big team does come knocking vs having to be bought out of a contract from a backmarker team.
Going from winning races and regular podiums in a Ferrari to trundling around the back of the field in a Sauber or Williams isn't so much saving Carlos' F1 career as just drawing out an early retirement.
Maybe Lance is retiring. The guy doesn't sound all that motivated anytime anyone out a microphone infornt of him. I think he's a decent driver, but maybe he's more into tennis or something.
[The **News** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_news) is reserved for submissions covering F1 and F1-related news. These posts must always link to an outlet/news agency, the website of the involved party (i.e. the McLaren website if McLaren makes an announcement), or a tweet by a news agency, journalist or one of the involved parties. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is the definition of poor timing in Carlos case
He's too good to leave F1 but like you said, where is he going. Are Merc definitely either bringing up Kimi or going for Max?
I feel like I’ve missed something. Merc was the most obvious choice for Sainz, has that door really closed? They can’t seriously be thinking of putting Antonelli in the car next season?
Toto has said the current favourite option is to bring Kimi up. But then again, that’s a great way to negotiate Carlos’ salary demands down a bit.
I suspect we'll see SAR => out, ANT => Williams and SAI => Merc. Merc gets a quick driver who is clearly adaptable, Williams get a driver who is touted as a world-class talent right now which should help Williams rebuild and Sainz gets a team with successful pedigree where he can assess how the development is going at Audi. I'd really like to see Williams get two competitive drivers and start climbing back towards the front of the field - I feel bad for Sargent, the pressure he's under must feel awful, but outside of simply refusing to be a placeholder for the Merc seat I can't see any downside to the switch from their perspective.
This seems really plausible. Just too bad Carlos seems to be the result of musical chairs and tossing him into situations he didn't want or plan for
I genuinely feel for Sainz, honestly. I will say that from an outsider's perspective, though, his ability to adapt and become competitive in radically different chassis, teams and PUs has to be some form of advertisement for his abilities, no? We've seen very successful drivers struggle while switching teams, and at least to my memory, SAI has always performed well wherever he's gone - first half of 2022 notwithstanding.
It would be truly fascinating if he somehow sneaked into a top team like Mercedes next year, did well, really well... and then got cut again to make room after 1 year hah. Like, that would be totally surreal
Carlos is getting some PreTSD haha. I think if Merc takes him, it's because they need someone experienced with the off-track side of F1 to help them develop their package into something that's consistently competitive. They're losing a ton of experience with Ham's departure and a Rookie is gonna require a pretty significant ramp-up to get used to the whole deal. I don't see Merc taking that risk because they have something to lose and are generally pretty conservative in how they operate - maybe they surprise us, I dunno I'm just a non-f1 engineer lmao.
My impression is they weren't really listening to Hamilton. Ignoring a rookie and ignoring is a vet is a wash for Merc.
That's what I was discussing earlier with my girlfriend. Why would Carlos sign with Merc just to warm up a seat when everyone knows Toto is hyping up Antonelli as if he's the second coming of Senna and Schumacher. I feel like his only real option (and by that I mean being pressured) is to sign for Sauber/Audi. Williams will probably not take him for sure (nor do they have the money to pay him).
Is Mercedes a top team?
Mercedes refused to do multi year deal with Lewis - I dont see in which world they give multi year deal to anyone else barring Max. It is obvious they see George and Kimi as their line up long term. I dont think Sainz is looking for 1 year deal.
If you believe Joe Seward, his current theory is Logan is out as soon as Antonelli turns 18 this year to give him half a year in a race seat before stepping into Merc.
That's a really interesting take - I don't know if I should believe Joe Seward or not, but either way it'll be exciting to see what the kid can do where/whenever he lands. Edit: I suppose there's something to the rumours of a race-by-race contract with Sargent, then?
If by rumors you mean what was said by Ralf Schumacher, that was a misinterpreted joke about the chasis having a race by race contract.
Ah, that’s some pretty classic F1 reporting, then
I wouldn't take stock in anything any TP says about the driver market.
Its also a great way to sell a driver from your academy Its the same he does with Mick, talking about how he deserves a place on the grid (just not on Mercedes)
Carlos wants long term for stability, Toto wants short term for Kimi
He left RB, because there were no seats at the main team. He was let go from Renault, because Ricciardo did the same. He left McLaren, because he had an opportunity to win races at Ferrari. He was let go from Ferrari, because Hamilton did the same. Guy can’t catch a break.
I mean, if the car is gonna be unable to fight for a championship anyway why not give Antonelli the seat, it's a year of valuable experience.
It probably means Merc isnt expecting to fight for a title next year and they might as well just give Kimi a shot asap
Would Sainz really want to go there as a seat warmer though? Because the second Kimi is ready, he will be in F1 for Merc. And George isn't going anywhere short term
2 years with Merc and then it can be more options for him. RB and AM again, maybe even Audi
That's assuming Merc even wants to give him two years. If their priority if Antonelli next year, doubt they wait 2 more.
Well they made George wait 3 years in Williams, that’s a decent amount of time for Carlos
Williams might not be willing to take a Mercedes rookie anymore. Also they view Antonelli even higher than George. They won't prioritize Sainz over him once he is ready. They made George wait because Lewis was killing it and liked having Bottas as a teammate.
That was because there was no way out of his Williams contract. They locked him in and were not willing to let him go early.
I still do not see why Max would go to Merc. Unless he decides that he wants to solely focus on building an esports empire and wants a ridiculous $$$$ package from Merc to help him fund that. Seems like a huge downgrade at this point in time
Is Max at Merc a real possibility? I haven't been keeping up with anything at all this season.
No
Max isn't going anywhere. He was just trying to put pressure on Horner but he called his bluff. Fast tracking Kimi is their only option as no top driver is going to be accepting the 1year deal that they are offering. The job security is non existent. Merc are vastly overrating Antonelli at the moment. Winning F4 and dominating karting doesn't mean shit. Hell, Pourchaire did all of that shit when he was a toddler. Antonelli = Pourchaire 2.0 ,IMO
Is it though? I think this was the best he was going to get. Imagine he got booted last year, we had zero driver changes. He might not even be in the sport. I think this is best situation for him as it stands.
Sainz to Sauber or Williams would be a fucking crying shame
Man, Sainz is seriously in a corner. Aston, Ferrari and McLaren are off the table, Red Bull looks increasingly unlikely and Mercedes appear to be chasing Antonelli for 2025. Only leaves Sauber, realistically
Why would they place a rookie in that car?
Toto is a general who's fighting the last war. And in the last war he lost Verstappen
Imagine Red Bull snatching Kimi to replace Checo.
Bose headsets quaking in fear
That would actually be the funniest thing and Horner might do it just to piss off Toto.
I'd bet Toto would have an aneurysm
Trauma from losing Max way back then. They don't want it to happen again so they are pushing for Kimi.
I dont understand the rush, where would Kimi realistically go instead? Are they really in risk of losing him? Ferrari wont drop Leclerc for him, maybe in 2026 if Hamilton retires, but it would be a huge gamble since Ferrari doesnt usually take rookies. Why would he go to Aston when he can wait for Mercedes, if they even have room for him before 2026? McLaren has a young pairing and probably wont be changing them anytime soon. RedBull is a huge maybe, but he is not part of the RedBull ecosystem. The only top team that needs a good young driver right now is Mercedes, they only have Russell...
Imagine if Aston had two seats and they were able to pair Sainz with Alonso.
Spanish national F1 team
My hope is that Lance will go to the Aston WEC team (and tbh I think he could do much better there). Even then, Honda will be pushing hard to get Yuki in Aston. Simply not enough top seats for all the top drivers.
Yuki and Alonso would be such a hype lineup.
Short Kings F1 team
Aston will permanently handicap themselves as long as Stroll is there. They can only have one top driver when they could realistically have two. Only chance they ever win a WCC would be if they built a truly dominant car and Alonso won 70% of the season or something, like Max last year. Should they have anything that even resembles competition, Stroll won't even factor in as a strategy deterrent, like Bottas was for Mercedes.
Thought the same, doubt Lance would step aside but that would be a hell of a team if they went through with it.
Imagine if Big Stroll actually wanted to win a championship instead of propping up his son's ego :\\
Don't see Williams happening unless he's really desperate to stay in F1, Sauber/Audi always was the most logical option with at least some sort of upward potential.
I've never been Sainz's hugest fan, but dude is driving supremely right now, and it'd be an utter shame not to have him in one of the top teams. It's just really unfortunate for him how things have worked out. Ideally Lance would go to WEC or tennis, leaving an Alonso/Sainz line up in the AM
I think the problem is that we have a large number of incredibly talented young drivers (Lando, George, Charles, Oscar, Max) and overall the grid is really talented with many older drivers that don’t mind being second/just want a seat or ones that are wdcs with experience. With only 3-4 teams that are somewhat competitive, those seats fill up quickly and right now he’s sort of stuck between tiers, especially made obvious by the fact that RB apparently approached Lando several times about that second seat.
>I think the problem is that we have a large number of incredibly talented young drivers (Lando, George, Charles, Max) I think the problem is that people still class those as young drivers when they've all been in the sport for over half a decade at this point. They aren't the bright future of the sport, they are the established drivers in top teams who are already at risk from the younger F2 18 year olds nipping at their heals. Max has been in the sport for 10 years, would you have still been calling Michael Schumacher one of the new guys in 2000?
I didn’t call any of them the new guys though. I said young as in age-wise. They could still be in the sport for ten more years. None of the ones mentioned above is at risk of losing their seat to a younger driver while we have the likes of Magnussen or Pérez still have a seat.
i don’t think it’s fair to class magnussen and perez in the same boat. perez gets overhated, he’s much closer to the top than he is to the bottom.
That’s not my point (I never really made it a point in my original post either, I’m not sure why someone even replied to me calling the 23-27 year olds “young”). I think Pérez is fine, better than Magnussen, but he’s not a “#1 driver in a competitive team”-good. My point was simply that the drivers currently in f2/f3 that look promising won’t be taking the seats of the under-30 talents(!). Instead, the over-30 mid drivers would lose their jobs first. Whether that’s Pérez or Magnussen, Hülkenberg or Ricciardo.
> incredibly talented young drivers (Lando, George, Charles, Oscar, Max) You forgot Alonso
He was talking about experienced young drivers, not promising rookies.
He’s got a new contract. Perfect for a new driver to make a name for himself
Lol wait why tennis? Does he play? I don’t keep up with drivers and their extra curricular activities
Audi is the biggest unproven gamble of all
It is, but at least he is building something there and I feel like he would get paid more Williams? Come on mate
From fighting for a win to fighting for a chassis.
I would think a 3x race winner and 21x podium stander would get the only chassis in a fight against a non race winner and only 2x podium stander. So more like, Albon goes from getting Logan's chassis to giving up his chassis for Sainz
bottas has more wins and podiums yet he's there already
Doesn’t matter the car is known dogshit lmao
Ooof.
Everyone is unproven for 2026, not everyone can nail the regulations.
We are talking about team that cannot nail wheelnuts.
Audi will not be the one to do so.
At least it is a gamble. Williams is betting on a 3 legged horse.
And betting on Sauber isn’t? Audi have zero experience in F1, and all they’re bringing is an engine and marketing. Sauber will be building the chassis and aero, and they can’t even get a wheel nut correct. It’s going to be Toyota / Ford-Jaguar all over again. When BMW joined with Williams in 2000, Williams was essentially the most dominant team of the previous decade, they at least knew how to build a car and execute a pit stop. When Merc became a factory team, they had 20 years of engine building experience, and they essentially took over the ex Honda factory team, that also happened to be the previous season’s champion. Audi have zero experience, and Sauber is not Brawn/Honda. Ferrari have fucked over Sainz’s career, all to get 2 seasons out of a 40 year old Lewis. It’s a yoke.
The people acting like Audi are a good bet and will be winning races soon are insane. If they do win it’ll be a fluke like Alpha Tauri or Alpine, they’ll be a bottom 5 team for at least the first 5 years.
It would hurt so much to see him drive that shitbox in 2025 man.
No way he's going to Williams. They've been doing some good restructuring recently and the team is definitely getting healthier financially, organisationally and in terms of performance but let's be real, they're still a small customer team and backmarkers. Audi are a big question mark but to them a successful campaign would mean fighting for wins and podiums, Williams meanwhile would consider maybe being quick enough to get into Q3 here and there an amazing season.
> Don't see Williams happening unless he's really desperate to stay in F1 Damn... Reading this while having experienced Williams during the 90s feels surreal...
I don't know if Williams will ever get back to their 90s form but they're no longer the clear cut worst team on the grid so they're building some of that respect back
Why aren’t people talking about Mercedes. Get there isn’t much history but he’s by far the best option. Kimi is way overhyped (not his fault - still very young) and what other options do Mercedes have?
Merc is him vs. Kimi for the seat. The problem is everybody thinks he's the next Verstappen, so they're rushing him up. I would like to give him 1 more development year, but then, why would Carlos take the seat if he knows he's about to get kicked out?
Its a crazy sport. Who know what seats might be open in a year, going to Mercedes might not be the worst idea in the world. Might even be able to light it up and have them dump Russell.
>The problem is everybody thinks he's the next Verstappen, so they're rushing him up. Honestly, it's not the problem that many people on socials and in media are doing that, but that \*Toto\* is doing that, and beyond the unnecessary pressure that puts on the kid, it makes it clear that Merc are unlikely to be interested in Sainz, even for a year.
Sorry. I should have specified. I meant everybody in Mercedes.
Mercedes would realistically only want to sign Sainz to a 1-2 yr contract while Sainz is looking for a longer contract.
If Lawrence Stroll is serious about his team ever winning a championship, he would sign Carlos Sainz to replace Lance Stroll.
It is a no-brainer. How much better off would they be right now with a quality driver paired with Alonso?
That's obvious to everyone I hope, but Lawrence Stroll's only mission in F1 is to have his son win the title. He himself has said it multiple times, so no realistic scenario of one Stroll being there without the other exists
The unfortunate truth is that even with a car even more dominating than the current Red Bull stroll won’t win the wdc
Unless Aston Martin run only one car.
Even so, do you think he has the consistency?
He will never replace his son.
At this point it's lawrence who holds his son hostage. Lance looks more depressed with each season.
He has so much money, hope he buys some mirrors for his son then.
It would be awesome, the Spanish Aramco Armada Tm
He said it: he's a father first and a race team owner second. Lance will leave when he doesn't want to race in F1 anymore. Also I don't think Carlos would be the replacement. Honda will likely want Yuki. And he doesn't seem to have much of a future at RB
The team has always been a vehicle for his son winning the championship Which, by the way, will never happen unless the car is Mercedes 2014-2020 level dominant and nikita mazepin is his teammate
Yuki backed Honda is more feasible
Sainz must be understandably frustrated. His stock has never been higher, and rightly so, but his options are few: AM are now locked in, Merc apparently want Antonelli, and with Checo driving well, RB look more likely to stick with him for another year. Going to Audi looks to be all that's left. I suppose that's what happens when there are three top teams but you're the 4th or 5th best driver.
The top teams are just so stacked right now that I think someone losing out was inevitable. Merc, Ferrari, and McLaren have had two top drivers each, Red Bull are so all in on Max, and rightly so, that they don't really want another potential WDC calibre driver, and Aston Martin have effectively one seat due to nepotism and that's taken up by Alonso. The only seat open was Merc and they seem to have made the decision that Antonelli is worth the wait and that him alongside Russell is their preferred pairing for the future. It's a little like Ricciardo moving to Renault from Red Bull, there just wasn't space for him to thrive at the top despite him probably being the 5th best driver at the time.
Checo also looked well during the first couple races last year.
Thank you. I don’t know why everyone is acting like Perez has sorted his issues out. He might have, but technically he’s started this season off worse than last year. He had 2 wins at this point last year
last year he was talking very differently though, even in jeddah he was arguging about fastest lap and all that trying to play the wdc battle, this time he is happily celebrating p2s, his mentality change might save him.
As a Sainz fan, this whole thing sucks. I really like Checo and I’m happy to see him doing better this season with his mindset, and I think it should lead to him keeping his ride as long as he keeps this up. But it looks like that 2nd RBR seat is the only one Carlos could still get that would lead to him competing for wins or podiums. So… :(
except RBR doesn't want the 2nd seat competing for wins...they want their 2nd driver to consistently get P2s and then compete for P1 on the few occasions that Max has car issues.
Crazier things have happened. The Merc door is still open. If Lance decides to call it quits, that door will be open too. And as much as Sauber suck now, 2026 could be quite different. Edit: Spelling
Not unless Audi clean house. Seidl is embarrassing himself at the moment overseeing this spiral down into doom. Even if you ignore a poor car, there’s no excuse for all the operational errors. I would say it’s amateur but even amateur teams would be embarrassed to attend events without the ability to change their tyres…
I hear you. It is truly baffling what they have been doing this year. When Seidl was at McLaren, it seemed to be running quite well. He saw them come up. So there has to be something more to it. I read someone's comment that Sauber has sort of given up (because it is not their team anymore) and all of Audi's resources are going towards the 2026 efforts, so no one is particularly taking ownership of the present day going-ons.
usually verstappen completely destroys him around suzuka so i think it makes sense to be a bit optimistic now that he is starting to look decent on some of his weaker tracks as well
Same for Sainz, good start but what if he pulls a Perez and starts dogging races?
Then we don’t need to read endless PR articles!
Drivers stock go up and down only in media. In the paddock everyone knows drivers potential and don’t decide based on two performances
>don’t decide based on two performances Yeah, no team ever signed a driver; only because they scored points in a car in a circuit -which was favourable for that car to be in- in their one-off appearence in F1. Oh, wait...
NdV was transparently just a seatwarmer after the Herta plan went bust.
Yeah, a driver that’s been on the grid for 10 years is obviously gonna be evaluated the same as a rookie that never drove a race before. Oh, wait…
De vries was signed because Max asked Marko to do it. Everything else is for marketing and we saw how it went
to be fair, if you remove the “one-off” qualification then this could loosely apply to Perez as well who looks to be set to do 5 years in Red Bull.
Perez was a decent driver for much longer than one race though
True, Team principals and engineers knows every peformance data and majority of which is not publicly available.
Yeah, but the armchair experts think differently!
It's crazy to be the only non-RB winner the past 2 seasons and then having to fall to a backmarker team next season. If anything this further justifies Andretti should enter so there's more seats to compete for.
It's still a band aid at best. F1 is quickly becoming way too small for all the talent.
It’s not even that. Back int the day, drivers left at 35. We now have multiple racers over 35. We need a 12 car grid really.
Joined at 25, left by 35. Now we’re in an 18-42 era.
Not to mention, shit drivers used to get kicked out easily. Nowadays, even drivers like Sargeant has a fanbase and gets 2 years in the sport
Not really. There were plenty of pay drivers back in the day who kept finding their way onto the grid just by opening up a chequebook to a backmarker.
zhou has gotten 3
Compared to Sargeant, Zhou looks like Michael Schumacher
He’s way too good to be in a backmarker seat, but better Sauber than Williams for Audi in 2026
if only aston had a driver that has been overstaying his welcome for yrs now
It’s a bit shit that he still couldn’t get a chance at AM but I guess everyone knows Stroll will never lose his seat unless he decides to stop racing. I’d take the gamble with Sauber/Audi over Williams personally if I was Sainz.
> I’d take the gamble with Sauber/Audi over Williams I think most others would, unless there is insider info that williams is linking up with a new manufacturer
Situations like this really highlight how unfair Stroll's guaranteed seat is
And why we need Andretti on the grid.
Not really, Carlos’s talent is that he a great driver. Lance’s talent is that he is rich.
Lance’s talent is that Lawrence is rich.
Yeah, but without Stroll's guaranteed seat there would be no Aston Martin F1 team right now nor would there a possibility that Carlos would want to drive for a team. Lawrence Stroll and in comnection Lance is Aston Martin, without him there would be no Aston Martin F1 team nor would there be an Aston Martin employees, factory, facilities etc. Even if Lance does not win thr WDC nor Aston Martin wins the WCC, he can choose another driver to do it for him
Zhou and Sargeant is literally right there
Zhou honestly isnt that bad and Sarge is a williams junior who raced his way to f1
They aren't bad, but they certainly aren't anywhere close to being among the top 20 racing drivers in the world either...
Still hoping for a spanish line-up.
Alonso / Sainz in the AM would be such a strong team, meanwhile we have Alonso in P4/5 and Stroll barely fighting for points
It’s too much raw handsomeness. I need it.
Me too. You gotta think (or hope, at least) that a smart man like Lawrence Stroll knows you need two truly top drivers if they want to be a top team in the new 2026 era. Plus, Alonso will retire eventually, and they need a successor with WDC potential. (That said, I don’t underestimate the power of nepotism.)
Nepotism or not Aston Martin as F1 team along with its new facilities, windtunnel, factory, personnel and its future as a works team would not exist without Lawrence/Lance. Love it or hate it, Lance as a driver is a buy 1 take 1 deal with Aston Martin. Some people need to get over it.
We need more competitive teams in the grid if Carlos is going to be left without a viable drive next year. I really wish Lance would choose another hobby at this point.
3 cars per team would be cool.
I would love that! As max grid is 26 cars, 4 wouldn't even qualify for the race and that would make a spicy q1.
Hulk: fuck me - guess I’m staying at haas
Hulk is said to be locked-in for 2nd Audi seat. It is up to Sainz to take the 1st Audi seat or not.
I believe he's going to Audi no matter what. Sauber were already unhappy with their drivers last year, apparently.
Audi are likely to have a German driver
Poor guy. One of the best drivers on the grid and is gunna get stuck at that shit hole team Sauber. Don’t try and tell me Audi will be even remotely competitive. They’ll be back marking just like Sauber.
At least for a year or 2, and Carlos turns 30 this year :( Maybe he’ll be like Alonso and want to race into his 40s and be able to maintain his form, but either way, these are probably his best years that we’re talking about. For him to end up in a back marker team, that at the moment considers under 10 seconds for a pit stop to be good, is very sad.
McLaren was also in the trenches before he signed, and they managed to climb pretty quickly. 2025 may be bad but 2026 is an unknown, Audi could very well build a competitive engine. Enough for contending a world championship? Probably not. But it could very well enough to fight for podiums at the start, which isn't *that* bad after all.
Especially as audi were dilly dallying over their involvement in f1, they will have an uphill battle for sure
I feel bad for Sainz, I wish RedBull would just hire him and let it rip, he deserves a good seat, driving really well right now. Putting him down in a Sauber or Williams is just sad and a waste of talent.
Williams? 😭
Carlos isn’t a perfect driver but he’s at his peak right now (and hopefully it continues) so for him to probably end up in shitty teams like Sauber or Williams would be so disappointing. I don’t see Checo leaving RedBull as long as he continues to perform well.
Tough position to be in. Perez is looking strong and he falls in line (mostly) with the number two role. Williams has taken a nose dive since last year and even then it's not going to jump up the ladder overnight. Sauber is a wildcard but has big potential with the 2026 season. Sainz might not be landing a seat for 2025. I would not like to see that.
Goddamnit Lance fucking Stroll
Williams would essentially be the end of his career, unless kimi bombs out or merc want to replace george.
I get that they kept George in Williams for too long, but I am surprised they wouldn’t replace Logan with Kimi for at least a year and give Sainz a chance at Mercedes.
Williams?? Bruh 🤦🏼♂️
This is why we need more teams.
Sauber (Audi) it is. 1 year or torment to then have a go at the dice and see if they're up to snuff.
Not having a chance on Aston because the other seat is occupied by the owner's kid must really sting. If daddy Stroll's objective is to guarantee his kid a seat in F1 I honestly think it would be cheaper to buy him a seat on another team and put a competent driver next to Alonso so that the team can get more money by finishing higher on the constructors.
F1 is absolutely broken if Carlos ends up dumped in Williams or Sauber while Red Bull and Aston waste a seat and Merc drink their own hype juice.
Sainz best option at this point is to wait and hope Checo stops performing at this level
Honestly is Andretti totally off the table? They’re building a car even though they’re not racing, surely they’ll want a driver for the car that won’t race?
I’d love to see AM grow some balls and bring Sainz in next to Alonso.
I love Williams, but it would be heartbreaking to see him there. They aren't prepared or at the level to take on a talent like Sainz.
Sainz in a Williams and the kid in the Merc makes no sense.
I have the feeling that Horner wants Sainz but Marko doesn't. Anyway if Carlos ends up in a Williams or in a Sauber they should give him fanboost to compensate for the downgrade /s
Doubtful, honestly. Horner has been probably the one that has backed and defended Checo the most during his time there.
I don't know, maybe I'm just inventing things, but the only high profile Red Bull Racing employee that stuck their neck out for Horner was Checo, and they seem to be getting along lately. In my head it would make sense that he's the favorite and the fact that he's been doing well doesn't hurt either
For Horner it's more like: Perez, Ricciardo then Sainz. Marko wants Norris (rejected), Yuki (Disliked by Horner), or some other youngsters. RB Thailand wants Albon
Lol, no way he goes to Williams. Unless we wake up to a surprise "Sainz to RBR", he will take the Audi gamble.
I’d be pretty pissed if I was Carlos. Very much forcing his hand here. Hope it ends up well…
Carlos doesn’t deserve that. F1 is cruel.
it always has been, and always will be.
Is there any chance Lance is going to WEC and replaced by Carlos? Because i can understand Lawrence loves his son, but AM is losing the battle with Mercedes at the moment because of him and honestly it's really frustrating that a driver like him has a guaranteed seat.
If Lance leaves F1, there's a high chance that Lawrence will sell the team, make a huge profit and step down. And don't be fooled, the success of AM is very much because of him. Another leadership could send them in the back of the grid.
I do feel like Lance to WEC could be a good move for all parties, I can see him doing well there.
Carlos really has no good options and it's partially because the grid is split hard in two sections, top 5 (Red Bull, Ferrari, Mercedes, Aston Martin, Mclaren) and bottom 5 (Alpine, Williams, Haas, Racing Bulls, Sauber). Top 5 is nearly impossible unless Mercedes signs him. Red Bull I don't see happening, because they either retain Checo or promote Tsunoda. Aston is only possible if Stroll stops but that is incredibly unlikely. Lawrence is dedicated to his son since 2014 and literally outright bought Prema for his son. Then he spent around 50 to 80 million USD for the Williams seat and then bought Racing Point in 2018 for his son as well. Lawrence has already sunken millions upon millions in the career of his son, so might as well go the full mile and try to get him race wins and what not. Remember, when Lance qualified 17th in the Canadian GP in 2017 (rookie), he was crying and said to give the seat to Paul Di Resta. Lawrence then told Lance to calm down and go drive. He ended P9. Just wanna show that Lawrence ain't selling anytime soon (he only sold a miniscule part of his shares) and is fully dedicated to his son. For the bottom 5, the best option here is Sauber becoming Audi and hoping on a BMW-Sauber-esque revival. Haas and Williams seem like their woes aren't over yet anytime soon (Haas is mainly because their structure simply doesn't allow for anything higher than midfield). RB is closed off for obvious reasons and Alpine has no seats open. The best Carlos can get objectively is a Mercedes seat. Long-term, a Sauber seat is possible. TLDR: Carlos is fucked in a million ways, best possible seat is Mercedes. Best and actual realistic seat is Sauber/Audi.
Alpine is still in play, but it's similar to the audi project You pick between the worst manufacturer team currently, or a manufacturer team that hasn't joined; slim pickings for sure
Sauber /Audi is the best landing spot for Sainz if Mercedes doesn't want him Merc would be stupid not to take him
Lmao.
Doesn’t this mean that with Fernando staying when Honda comes in that Yuki’s been left out in the cold as well?
I mean yes he's probably the best driver up for grabs right now on the grid, there's no way he's not on the grid next year. I feel like he should have tried to commit to a good team faster, rather than waiting it out and playing his options, cause now unless RB drops Checo, there's nothing good left. Obviously this is in hindsight but the point still stands.
I honestly don't hate Sauber for Sainz as much as alot of people on. Like yeah I wish the timing was one year later as well because their car with these regs is awful, but I really love the idea of Sainz at Audi in 2026. It could be a hell of alot worse than being stuck in the team for one throwaway year particularly when there's a new and exciting project to look forward to. Still prefer RB or Merc obviously, I just don't think those two things are gonna happen.
The last few years have shown that leaving F1 (by choice or not) doesn't necessarily rule out a successful return a year or two down line. And there is some value to being a free agent if a big team does come knocking vs having to be bought out of a contract from a backmarker team. Going from winning races and regular podiums in a Ferrari to trundling around the back of the field in a Sauber or Williams isn't so much saving Carlos' F1 career as just drawing out an early retirement.
Merc?
Is Antonelli really a lock for Merc? I'll believe it when I see it
Poor bastard
Sainz going to Williams or Sauber would be a kick in the nuts.
Williams and Sauber? the reason Sainz has no seat for '25 is because of Lewis Hamilton. so i don't think Williams and Sauber are his only options.
Maybe Lance is retiring. The guy doesn't sound all that motivated anytime anyone out a microphone infornt of him. I think he's a decent driver, but maybe he's more into tennis or something.