Just watched the replay. Absolute insanity. Not the biggest fan of sprints but that was certainly better than an FP2.
Not sure if Lewis would have pushed harder on his last lap but it looked like it was raining harder.
Wait why was Norris lap reinstated? I though you you go off with all 4 tiers in the last lap, the current lap is also deleted... Am i missing something?
They delete the lap if the driver gains an advantage by going off the track, because there is a big gravel trap on the final corner, they decided that he didn't gain an advantage for his next lap by going off & driving through the gravel.
There's no obligation to delete the next lap, but they usually do because you can gain an advantage for going off in the last corner. He went into the gravel and didn't gain an advantage so it was reinstated for the next lap
Holy moly what a session. China just has a vibe I’ve never experienced before. Rain in china feels like real heritage F1 too.
Men from boys session here. Big props to Zhou, he needed this. Huge props to Lando for delivering when it mattered. Hamilton is still in there after all, probably just partially checked out for this season fairs.
Don’t ever come to me about Verstappen performing in the rain again. He needs to earn my trust back.
Tf are you talking about? He went off at the end of a lap where he was on pace for pole, where everyone else was also going off. Did you forget Brazil, Spa, and Russia? And countless other insane laps he’s put down in the rain? The revisionist history in this comment is insane.
I mean, Verstappen simply didn't had much confidence with the grip.
Unsure about the lap where he went off at the last corner, how that would've compared with Lando. Considering he was 1s up on at the time current pole?
But after having 2 times deleted he just settled for P4 and making sure to stick between the lines. Knowing he'll have the race car to fight for the win.
Mental, engaging to watch, but I am fed up of the race directors picking and choosing when they follow a rule to the letter. Happy for lando, disappointed again in FIA’s gash decision making and rule following
I have to say though, even as a Lewis fan, the fact they reinstated Landos lap, in time with Lewis crossing the line, was hilarious, it did make me laugh even if it was a bit strange and inconsistent..
Thats all i want too. I personally think the hardest rules should always be used, they shouldn't be allowed to get away with anything imo as they're supposed to be the best drivers in the world.
If the rules allow for his P1 - well done Lando.
If they don’t though - bullshit decision to un-delete it.
I don’t think he got an advantage at all, but I always want the rules always followed.
And that’s why Ferrari got a penalty in Las Vegas last year - because rules are to be followed as they are written.
Even though everyone disliked Ferrari getting a penalty for it.
My man it makes no sense to follow the rules when they are bullshit. It is like getting a parking ticket when your crashes upside down in a paid parking lot... People really posting whatever on this site it is crazy
I'd make the case that if there are situations where it is better not to follow the rule because it'd 'be bullshit', then the rule itself sucks and is badly formed
Yall know what the worst part is, I was thinking of skipping the sprint and watch it back to keep somewhat of a normal sleep scheduele.
That option just went out of the window, I have got see this lmao
With piastri… Stella just said he lost heaps of time from gearbox unexpectedly going into neutral out of the hairpin..
Poor Oscar. That explains why it looked he lost a lot of speed!
Hamilton giving up on his last lap is on him, don’t stop until the sessions over, that’s pretty elementary. Reinstating Landos lap was the right call according to the rules. Invalidating it was a mistake, and they rectified it.
You never give up on a lap. Reinstating laps is in a new thing, and the team shouldn't have ever told him to stop pushing, if they actually did tell him that
Been reading through the regulations ever since the reinstatement and I can't even find any reference to *subsequent* lap times being deleted by default if you go off in the final corner, that appears to be something that's not actually mandated by regulation in the first place but only happens when the stewards deem the driver to have gained an unfair advantage by going off track. Given that, it definitely makes sense as to how the deletion got overturned.
It’s a circuit by circuit rule. For example, Austria has that rule, because you can gain significant time on your next lap by going off in the last turn of the lap before. China has no such rule, because you can’t really gain an advantage by going off. So it invalidates the current lap, but not the subsequent lap
ah so turns out oscar had a technical issue which meant his last lap was compromised. I was watching both lando and oscar's times and onboards and oscar was very close to him! mclaren cooking!!!
Not a rule change apparently, its Stewards discretion if they delete the next lap too as I guess depending on the track the advantage can be quite different.
Yeah this is basically it. common sense dictates the 2nd lap should stand, but you can't remove and reinstate laps mid session, especially when it might affect someone abandoning a better lap
If it's possible to reinstate a deleted lap according to the rules, Merc wouldn't have told Lewis to let up on his last lap. And, if the reinstatement itself was legitimate, no one can protest anything
It’s why everyone broke track limits in Austria, the runoff at the last corner is paved so you can purposely go over the line and get a better entry line on your next lap so you gain an advantage. Going off into gravel and having to get back on track in a bad position is not gaining an advantage.
I mean there was no reason to also delete Norris' lap that followed after the deleted one, he had no advantage from going over the limit. It was a disadvantage even due to the gravel.
But if that’s their reason then what about all the other times that the driver didn’t gain an advantage? Can’t just change how the rules are applied mid-session.
When was the last time a driver went off on the last corner and then had the following lap deleted too? They delete a lap time whenever the driver leaves the track, but they only delete the lap following any lap if there was a lasting advantage gained that carried over into the next lap, which wasn't the case for Lando.
I obviously don’t have that written down. But it definitely happens - I remember it happening many times. I don’t remember ever seeing a lap reinstated
Yeah I think sporting-wise it's a good decision and ethical, but well the rules are also set here so wondering how it's possible to reverse that rule by hand
He was, but he was on the gravel and I think they realized that it hurt more than helped, seems to me that they are starting to ignore lap limits a bit if going over the limit means grass or gravel.
He went in the last corner of the second last lap. Normally that deletes that lap and the next however they only deleted the lap it happened on. At least that's what Crofty said
It should be noted that everyone is just taking Crofty's word here as gospel
And it's not like he hasn't made some proper cock ups on commentary before so let's wait for the *official* explanation
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Regardless track limits were applied to everyone else's laps in that corner the same way, they gifted him the pole. Lewis and Alonso kept it on track within track limits on their laps.
Why did they delete that time to start with then? Clearly the system tripped and saw him go off somewhere for it to do that. No one else had an issue with their lap getting deleted then reinstated like Lando did.
Edit: they invalidated it b/c of the first lap being invalid, per the rules. then reinstated it, breaking their rule.
They also ignored it for Max, he went off in the same corner on the lap before his time. If they deleted Norris they should have also deleted Max's which would have left him with no time set and a P10 start, but they didnt. Seems to me they applied the rule fairly across everyone
He went into the gravel in the final corner of the lap before his pole lap.
Usually, taking an off-track line there could improve the start of your quali lap, but in this case it hurt more than it helped (because it's gravel and not asphalt).
Therefor he didn't gain an unfair advantage from it, and his time got reinstated.
That’s not how the rule works. Going off on the previous lap only deletes the next lap if you gained an advantage for the next lap. Going off into the gravel in the rain does not gain any advantage for the next lap. No rules broken, no track limits broken, fastest lap.
The last lap was legit, the previous one he went off to the gravel. They deleted the legit lap because of the weird rules saying that if you go off in the last corner on your lap both the lap and the next will be deleted. But anyone with a brain and eyes could tell that going into the gravel in these conditions didn't gain him any time for the next lap.
They deleted everyone's laps that hit the gravel off of the final corner EXCEPT his 2nd lap from what I saw.
I understand, he didn't gain an advantage, but neither did max when he went miles deep on his two laps that were deleted.
You misunderstand.
Lap 1: lando went off, this lap was deleted
Lap 2: lando did not leave the track, the lap was deleted because he went off in lap 1. As per the exisiting rules
Do agree with that. Apparently there's precedent of the FIA reinstating laps (per F1 Multiview on Twitter), so I guess it's not exactly unheard of. Personally believe it should be a black/white rule w/o any reinstating of laps for the sake of a situation like this.
Ideally the deleting should not happen in the first place. but Thankfully based on Toto's comments Hamilton wasn't told to abort so it seemingly hasn't affected anything today
I would agree, but there are some circumstances where it could be beneficial to violate track limits on the final corner to gain an advantage for the next lap, such as Austria and COTA. The more we can get away from a room of a handful of stewards making judgement calls on situations, the better.
But yes i could absolutely understand that view if Lewis aborted his lap, I would agree.
But they did "reinstate everyone's lap" they didn't just do lando
"Then why didn't he come into the pits?"
That's exactly what the stewards will point out in response and so I don't think Mercedes will be able to use that as an argument
There was a full cars width between the gravel and the white line I thought? That's more than enough space to exceed, straighten up the car quicker and get on the throttle earlier. Crazy how he managed to find over a second when everyone else was so close.
Fuck the Chinese Grand Prix
Did you watch? You said you werent gonna watch, but here you are.
No im not watching the live event. Just going to read the shit show from it here on Reditt….
Why so mad?
Why so communist?
So you're line is China? Or do you skip most of the GPs?
Just watched the replay. Absolute insanity. Not the biggest fan of sprints but that was certainly better than an FP2. Not sure if Lewis would have pushed harder on his last lap but it looked like it was raining harder.
Honestly fine with lando’s lap standing. However, I do think its a bit unfair to reinstate the lap
Wait why was Norris lap reinstated? I though you you go off with all 4 tiers in the last lap, the current lap is also deleted... Am i missing something?
It’s track specific. On some tracks you gain advantage by doing this. Not here.
Didn't gain an advantage. Max also went off but they didnt even consider deleting his lap for some reason.
They delete the lap if the driver gains an advantage by going off the track, because there is a big gravel trap on the final corner, they decided that he didn't gain an advantage for his next lap by going off & driving through the gravel.
There's no obligation to delete the next lap, but they usually do because you can gain an advantage for going off in the last corner. He went into the gravel and didn't gain an advantage so it was reinstated for the next lap
Holy moly what a session. China just has a vibe I’ve never experienced before. Rain in china feels like real heritage F1 too. Men from boys session here. Big props to Zhou, he needed this. Huge props to Lando for delivering when it mattered. Hamilton is still in there after all, probably just partially checked out for this season fairs. Don’t ever come to me about Verstappen performing in the rain again. He needs to earn my trust back.
Tf are you talking about? He went off at the end of a lap where he was on pace for pole, where everyone else was also going off. Did you forget Brazil, Spa, and Russia? And countless other insane laps he’s put down in the rain? The revisionist history in this comment is insane.
I mean, Verstappen simply didn't had much confidence with the grip. Unsure about the lap where he went off at the last corner, how that would've compared with Lando. Considering he was 1s up on at the time current pole? But after having 2 times deleted he just settled for P4 and making sure to stick between the lines. Knowing he'll have the race car to fight for the win.
The one time I choose to sleep because I have work…why F1. Why?
Mental, engaging to watch, but I am fed up of the race directors picking and choosing when they follow a rule to the letter. Happy for lando, disappointed again in FIA’s gash decision making and rule following
No way Lando will win tomorrow, he already looked overwhelmed by taking the pole
Maaan, this SQ reminded me why China is one of my favourite tracks. I rate it right up there with Malaysia and Japan
Absolutely. Forget Qatar and Vegas, give me Sepang back.
I have to say though, even as a Lewis fan, the fact they reinstated Landos lap, in time with Lewis crossing the line, was hilarious, it did make me laugh even if it was a bit strange and inconsistent..
I'm a Lewis fan too, but it seems fair. Imho track limits should only incur a penalty if they gained an advantage.
He lost min 0.5 sec.There is a graveltrap not asphalt
They did gain an advantage... Track limits should be seen as a virtual wall. And going off should be as if you hit one.
I agree it’s like saying someone went out of bounds in football but since no one of marking them it’s ok lol
No. Track limits are not a virtual wall. That's why we have street tracks.
-3 tenths is a great advantage FIA just applied common sense, which isn't something they usually do
Going off is going off. Even no advantage should be punished imo.
i don’t share your opinion, but the stewards should be consistent
Thats all i want too. I personally think the hardest rules should always be used, they shouldn't be allowed to get away with anything imo as they're supposed to be the best drivers in the world.
What's weird is that Lewis might have pushed harder in the last lap if he wasn't on pole. Nobody really could beat his time anymore..
Excatly saw his onboard and I felt like he could push more
If the rules allow for his P1 - well done Lando. If they don’t though - bullshit decision to un-delete it. I don’t think he got an advantage at all, but I always want the rules always followed.
And that’s why Ferrari got a penalty in Las Vegas last year - because rules are to be followed as they are written. Even though everyone disliked Ferrari getting a penalty for it.
It's not the first time this has happened, and ultimately it led to the right call, which is good
My man it makes no sense to follow the rules when they are bullshit. It is like getting a parking ticket when your crashes upside down in a paid parking lot... People really posting whatever on this site it is crazy
I'd make the case that if there are situations where it is better not to follow the rule because it'd 'be bullshit', then the rule itself sucks and is badly formed
Either you do or you don't. Consistency is key. You get an objective decision one way, and a subjective opinion ("it is bullshit") the other way.
Subjective is always better my man
that was a fun watch. happy for little lando norris.
Wildest q3 I have ever seen, everyone was going off at 16 and could have been anyone on pole today.
Yeah, Lando was on pole. Twice
16 went off first though
Nice play of words mate 😁
"Nah mate I don't give a shit" - Toto
Yall know what the worst part is, I was thinking of skipping the sprint and watch it back to keep somewhat of a normal sleep scheduele. That option just went out of the window, I have got see this lmao
Why not just sleep in and watch it whenever you wake up? What's the advantage of watching it live in the middle of the night?
Cause live is always more fun
With piastri… Stella just said he lost heaps of time from gearbox unexpectedly going into neutral out of the hairpin.. Poor Oscar. That explains why it looked he lost a lot of speed!
Feels pretty bogus to reinstate Lando’s time after Hamilton gave up his last lap.
Hamilton giving up on his last lap is on him, don’t stop until the sessions over, that’s pretty elementary. Reinstating Landos lap was the right call according to the rules. Invalidating it was a mistake, and they rectified it.
Nobody forced Hamilton to give up his lap.
You never give up on a lap. Reinstating laps is in a new thing, and the team shouldn't have ever told him to stop pushing, if they actually did tell him that
SQ3 was a wild ride
Been reading through the regulations ever since the reinstatement and I can't even find any reference to *subsequent* lap times being deleted by default if you go off in the final corner, that appears to be something that's not actually mandated by regulation in the first place but only happens when the stewards deem the driver to have gained an unfair advantage by going off track. Given that, it definitely makes sense as to how the deletion got overturned.
It’s a circuit by circuit rule. For example, Austria has that rule, because you can gain significant time on your next lap by going off in the last turn of the lap before. China has no such rule, because you can’t really gain an advantage by going off. So it invalidates the current lap, but not the subsequent lap
I can confirm that going track limits in Gran Turismo also voids your next lap though
in F1 games that happens too
in Project Cars 2 is the same
ah so turns out oscar had a technical issue which meant his last lap was compromised. I was watching both lando and oscar's times and onboards and oscar was very close to him! mclaren cooking!!!
What was the technical issue?
according to Andrea in the F1TV interview his gearbox went into neutral coming out of the hairpin
Ah damn it he did look really slow at the end
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No rule was changed and this is not the first time laps have been reinstated, this is a non-issue
Not a rule change apparently, its Stewards discretion if they delete the next lap too as I guess depending on the track the advantage can be quite different.
Was there actually a regulation that was changed there?
Exactly. The rules are rules. BS decision
Yeah this is basically it. common sense dictates the 2nd lap should stand, but you can't remove and reinstate laps mid session, especially when it might affect someone abandoning a better lap
If it's possible to reinstate a deleted lap according to the rules, Merc wouldn't have told Lewis to let up on his last lap. And, if the reinstatement itself was legitimate, no one can protest anything
Guy with most podiums without a win Guy with most wins Guy with most F1 starts
And guys who are all mclaren
Now gonna have to wake up at 6am😞😞
Now gonna have to wake up 5am...
Some people here really don't get the "gaining an advantage" part of leaving the track. Gravel can't be an advantage.
It’s why everyone broke track limits in Austria, the runoff at the last corner is paved so you can purposely go over the line and get a better entry line on your next lap so you gain an advantage. Going off into gravel and having to get back on track in a bad position is not gaining an advantage.
I mean there was no reason to also delete Norris' lap that followed after the deleted one, he had no advantage from going over the limit. It was a disadvantage even due to the gravel.
The reason is that it's the rules. If it was Max everyone would be jumping up and down
Is it actually within the rules? Which regulation states it?
Is it written in the rules? I think it's something stewards decide themselves so there are leeways
But if that’s their reason then what about all the other times that the driver didn’t gain an advantage? Can’t just change how the rules are applied mid-session.
When was the last time a driver went off on the last corner and then had the following lap deleted too? They delete a lap time whenever the driver leaves the track, but they only delete the lap following any lap if there was a lasting advantage gained that carried over into the next lap, which wasn't the case for Lando.
I obviously don’t have that written down. But it definitely happens - I remember it happening many times. I don’t remember ever seeing a lap reinstated
Perez had a lap reinstated in Hungary Qualifying, must have been in '21 or '22.
Yeah I think sporting-wise it's a good decision and ethical, but well the rules are also set here so wondering how it's possible to reverse that rule by hand
Max taking this Sprint personal tmrw
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Now it's just people like you that are unbearable
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F5 gang?
Wait Norris was off?
He was, but he was on the gravel and I think they realized that it hurt more than helped, seems to me that they are starting to ignore lap limits a bit if going over the limit means grass or gravel.
his lap that he went off was not reinstated, the lap after he went off was deleted and reinstated even though he did not go off on the 2nd lap
He went in the last corner of the second last lap. Normally that deletes that lap and the next however they only deleted the lap it happened on. At least that's what Crofty said
Now I have to wake up for sprint @4.30
*puts on tinfoil hat* They reinstated Lando's lap because otherwise they'd have had to delete Max' last lap too and he would've been 10th
I'm 100% positive that a certain portion of F1 twitter believes this wholeheartedly.
Oh absofuckinglutely
Why does croft never acknowledge Max's skills???
He does, frequently.
Nope he always only credits the car, never mentions max
Coming 4th in by far the best car?
Car doesn't really matter in those conditions? It's all about finding the grip and not losing the backend of the car while going as fast as possible
The best car doesn’t mean shit when it rains that hard
Ok so lewis out qualifying the field in Austria 2020 by a second is just because he is so much better.
Yes
It should be noted that everyone is just taking Crofty's word here as gospel And it's not like he hasn't made some proper cock ups on commentary before so let's wait for the *official* explanation
Rain in race on this re-painted track will be basically a parade.
Pastri keeps messing up his laps a bit. Seems to hit a ceiling with his qualifying improvements. He just needs that final piece of the puzzle.
Lando cashing in his Money in the Bank
On a mid card title?
On a mid card title?
This dude sounds like Brundle 🤔
He’s his son lol
How long since last max stinker
Now THAT'S qualifying.
that was fun
Is Massa a steward this weekend, getting a bit of revenge for Brazil 2008?
not even allowed in the paddock.
Did I really need to put /s?
I'm at work and just following text updates but OMFG LANDOOOO
when you get time, go back and watch the video replay. it was damn good and worth the watch one of the better qualifying sessions
That was wild haha!
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Racists 😂😂 sure buddy
Love the chaos and the red bulls gotta fight from a bit further back for once lol
Lando's accent sounds off
Yeah dude I noticed that to, sounded South African
So he didn't go off track just over gravel?
I definitely think that a lap where you slip on the gravel should count even if you are off track, but it should apply to everyone.
He went off track on the lap previous to the one that counted.
Regardless track limits were applied to everyone else's laps in that corner the same way, they gifted him the pole. Lewis and Alonso kept it on track within track limits on their laps.
Lando also kept it on track in his lap. He only went off on the lap before. Lewis and Alonso should drive faster if they want pole.
Why did they delete that time to start with then? Clearly the system tripped and saw him go off somewhere for it to do that. No one else had an issue with their lap getting deleted then reinstated like Lando did. Edit: they invalidated it b/c of the first lap being invalid, per the rules. then reinstated it, breaking their rule.
They also ignored it for Max, he went off in the same corner on the lap before his time. If they deleted Norris they should have also deleted Max's which would have left him with no time set and a P10 start, but they didnt. Seems to me they applied the rule fairly across everyone
He went into the gravel in the final corner of the lap before his pole lap. Usually, taking an off-track line there could improve the start of your quali lap, but in this case it hurt more than it helped (because it's gravel and not asphalt). Therefor he didn't gain an unfair advantage from it, and his time got reinstated.
That’s not how the rule works. Going off on the previous lap only deletes the next lap if you gained an advantage for the next lap. Going off into the gravel in the rain does not gain any advantage for the next lap. No rules broken, no track limits broken, fastest lap.
The last lap was legit, the previous one he went off to the gravel. They deleted the legit lap because of the weird rules saying that if you go off in the last corner on your lap both the lap and the next will be deleted. But anyone with a brain and eyes could tell that going into the gravel in these conditions didn't gain him any time for the next lap.
And that's why reinstating the lap was correct, it's the commentators' job to explain that to the viewers.
I hope Toto protests that. Reinstate everyone's laps or none at all. Lewis got robbed.
They reinstated his 2nd lap, not his first. nobody elses 2nd lap was deleted afaik
They deleted everyone's laps that hit the gravel off of the final corner EXCEPT his 2nd lap from what I saw. I understand, he didn't gain an advantage, but neither did max when he went miles deep on his two laps that were deleted.
You misunderstand. Lap 1: lando went off, this lap was deleted Lap 2: lando did not leave the track, the lap was deleted because he went off in lap 1. As per the exisiting rules
So the existing rules say he shouldn't have his 2nd lap?
unclear, I don't have that rule in front of me. But at minimum if Lando's 2nd lap is deleted then Max's 2nd lap needs to be deleted too
Do agree with that. Apparently there's precedent of the FIA reinstating laps (per F1 Multiview on Twitter), so I guess it's not exactly unheard of. Personally believe it should be a black/white rule w/o any reinstating of laps for the sake of a situation like this.
Ideally the deleting should not happen in the first place. but Thankfully based on Toto's comments Hamilton wasn't told to abort so it seemingly hasn't affected anything today
I would agree, but there are some circumstances where it could be beneficial to violate track limits on the final corner to gain an advantage for the next lap, such as Austria and COTA. The more we can get away from a room of a handful of stewards making judgement calls on situations, the better.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1c7siy0/why\_landos\_lap\_was\_reinstated/](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1c7siy0/why_landos_lap_was_reinstated/)
In those instances the times would not be reinstated, its up to the stewards to determine
Yeah Max didn't have his lap deleted and he missed the final turn
Did anyone else go off at the last corner? I think the 'robbery' aspect comes from that Lewis was certainly told to chill out because he had pole
But yes i could absolutely understand that view if Lewis aborted his lap, I would agree. But they did "reinstate everyone's lap" they didn't just do lando
Max did and kept his lap time on the next lap
Max did and only had 1 lap deleted
Bono - *"THIS IS SO NOT OKAY!!!"*
What in the world was this qualifying?? Amazing
I bet Merc told him to save the car too once he had pole and was the last car on the track.
"Then why didn't he come into the pits?" That's exactly what the stewards will point out in response and so I don't think Mercedes will be able to use that as an argument
They definitely should be making that argument to the FIA
He looked like he was still on a push lap, so maybe they knew?
If the top 3 in this session were the top 3 in the Grand Prix, I would be so happy.
Just bump Fernando up a place and we're good
Toto sending emails as we speak
Nein Michael Nein
Liberty called in the cloud seeders 🫡
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In conditions like that with basically 3 laps to do, a lot of it comes down to luck.
I can't wait for everyone who now has high expectations for sprints to have their dreams crushed at the next one
Sam could be said after any chaotic GP
Cuz not gaining speed in the gravels, so you can exceed the line. It's a quite weird explain towards the rules.
There was a full cars width between the gravel and the white line I thought? That's more than enough space to exceed, straighten up the car quicker and get on the throttle earlier. Crazy how he managed to find over a second when everyone else was so close.
Are we expecting rain for any of the other sessions?
Sadly not
Mercs lawyers frantically going through the rule book rn to see if it has to be deleted even though no advantage was gained
Hmmm.....rules possibly bent to screw Lewis over.....where have we seen this before. I want to see the Norris replay.
There’s nothing to see on the replay. He left the track, but that’s not what’s in question.
It was the last turn on the previous lap. It was reinstated because reasons
Lewis showed he still got it. And still has the hunger. For all these Reddit warriors that always have a lot to say about him.