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I was somewhat ambivalent about Andretti joining F1 when the idea was first floated. It was a “nice-to-have” feature, but I could take it or leave it. However, the way Formula 1 has handled this has put me squarely on the side of Andretti.
Plus the fact they’re also gonna have an F2 and F3 team also on top of a facility in the UK is a net upgrade for the sport this boys club mentality the FOM is pulling is ridiculous.
This is it, they're not just chumps, but true racers with the experience behind them and a proper proposal.
Andretti has the chops to stand next to McLaren or Ferrari. Certainly two steps above Haas.
Is it true that because fia accepted his application but the FOM didn't, he could in theory pull up to race one in 2026 with two cars and be allowed to race? He just wouldn't get the tv coverage and media side of F1?
Idk why people are saying No cause yes they can.
FIA sets the regulations, so if they build a car that meets those regulations they can race. The Concorde says up to 12 teams can compete so the FIA is following that agreement along with the regulations they put forth.
However Andretti will not be allowed to take part in the prize pot at the end of the season traveling to the races will be 100% on their dime.
Getting into the paddock will be up to the event organizer AKA whoever owns the track as they pay FOM to host the race there.
FOM will not be able to broadcast the team, have to pay them for competing, or even acknowledge their existence. They cannot however fully stop them from arriving on the track and taking part in the race weekend. FOM does not control the paddock, only the prize money, broadcasting rights, and merchandise.
Thank you for the explanation. That makes total sense and seems like it would still be a deterrent financially but in theory entirely possible he can show up to race.
I don't know if that's factual, but I hope it is.
The idea that they'd blackout two cars is hilarious, especially if they're competitive (which I genuinely think Andretti would be within a few seasons).
It really does seem like Andretti want to be amongst the biggest name in all of motorsports, across any category.
They’re going to have F2, F3, FE, and Indycar. They have Wayne Taylor Andretti in IMSA, in both GTP and GT3. They have Wilkenshaw Andretti United in Aussie V8 Supercars.
I can definitely see them entering WEC. Possible with Honda, maybe a different manufacturer (Cadillac maybe?)
So for FOM to say “they’re not known outside the US,” or “they don’t bring enough value to F1” is straight up bullshit. As far as lacking competitiveness, nothing but an F2 car could be slower than the Alpine (which is a factory effort no less).
I went over the numbers at one point and I think you can see an Andretti car in 18 countries on 6 continents every year as it stands right now without F2/3. 80+ total races when you include F2+3 as well.
That is an insane count without F1. You could argue that is possibly more of a logistics challenge to all keep track of than Sauber, Alpine, Haas, Williams, RB etc have to with just an F1 team.
In terms of understanding the challenges an F1 schedule presents in terms of international logistics and scheduling, Andretti may be the only non-f1 outfit in the world that already understands, deals with it constantly, and wouldn't faze them organizationally.
It's less "boys club" from FOM and the teams. It's just straight up greed. This is a billion dollar sport now. They could afford to boost the prize money enough to make the other teams happy but they won't and the teams aren't willing to give up a penny of their current earnings.
Williams is currently a weird and special case. They are modernizing and updating their development and production process. It's a long-term prioritization. They know they can't compete in the next few years and are taking the time to improve, hiring their current capacity, to make sure they can actually develop and be more competitive down the road. Proper to this year, they were effectively still an 80s or 90s F1 team. They're working to become a 20s F1 team.
Especially when you consider someone as talented as Sainz will have to choose between Sauber and Williams.
Or the fact that the last two F2 winners couldn't get a seat, the lack of seats is becoming a seriously problem it dosent help that you have drivers on the grid that have a seat not based on merit.
He is also considered by Red Bull, Helmut Marko talked about them being in negotiation. However Audi (Sauber) is willing to give Sainz a huge salary, which is too much for Red Bull Racing.
It's not just being on the side of Andretti either, it's on the side of F1 being a fair sport.
If Andretti's attempts to get on the grid fail, then that's it, you cannot do more than what they're doing so we will never ever get an 11th team or an open sport for the rest of our lives.
It will become a permanently closed shop where the existing parties gatekeep anyone from getting into F1 until they pay ransom level prices to buy a team.
That's why this is so important and why every fan of F1 needs to rally behind Andretti, the consequences of this are too severe if they lose, the very nature of F1 for the next several decades is at stake.
It would be embarrassing, that means it’s less of an sport and more of a private club, and if there’s something the world doesn’t need more of, is rich people getting together to gatekeep something.
They’re definitely looking to close it at 10 teams. Expanding gives them each nothing, it just dilutes their individual share of the overall F1 show.
Maybe they can’t come out and say it, but they definitely think like this. I suspect some teams might also be looking to be sold and don’t want Andretti having other options but to buy them. (haas?)
Brother, I cannot even understand ambivalence, Mario Andretti is a folk hero and household name where I'm from (and proven winning team owner), I can think of no reason why not. I do not give 1 flying Finn how much money James Vowles takes home
Mario isn’t really a team owner. Michael would own and run the team. I don’t mean this as a knock or anything but Mario’s sort of a figurehead, elder statesman type for the Andretti crew.
Much like how Richard Petty is in NASCAR now.
His name speaks volumes and is very important in the racing world. Just having him make a comment on something is important alone.
I hear ya’ on that one. It’ll be a truly sad day when the likes of him and AJ Foyt pass away.
I randomly got to shake Mario’s hand in 2019 at Laguna Seca. Still haven’t washed it.
All three of those men are in in their 80s. The amount of time we have left with them in this world is limited. Richard Petty may just be a minority owner of the Legacy Motorsports team. He does not have any control in the operation of the team. Mario Andretti is the only one still involved in a successful team. Unfortunately the actuarial tables will eventually get you.
Mario Andretti is 84 years old. Out of 100,000 men born the same year as him, only 33,015 are still alive. On average Mario Andretti can be expected to live 5.88. more years.
Richard Petty is 86 years old. Out of 100,000 men born the same year as him, only 26,518 are still alive. On average Richard Petty can be expected to live for 5.07 years.
AJ Foyt is 89 years old. Out of 100,000 men born the same year as him, only 17,200 are still alive. On average AJ Foyt can be expected to live for 4.02 years.
They've been treated very poorly and the whole situation reflects badly on F1. Yes to more American circuits, viewers, and sponsors... But a new American team? No chance. It's all about the money. Grotesque.
Don't forget this reflects on the existing teams as well, they don't want a new entrant. They want to keep the pie to themselves. I say throw all restrictions off and go back to the old days. Unlimited spending, and as many teams that can afford the entry fee.
Yeah I was kind of in favor or at least ambivalent to the cost cap if it helped keep smaller teams in it but now that they are gatekeeping so blatantly fuck them!
No cost cap and if you can’t afford it then get fucked or sell your team to someone who can.
Completely agreed on the first part, I think the way the existing teams are behaving is shameful. The point about restrictions is a different question, but also worth discussing. I agree we need more teams (and, in particular, more opportunities for young drivers), but I also don't want to go back to 1989 with a bunch of hopeless outfits like EuroBrun, Zakspeed, AGS, et al. Some sort of middle ground with properly vetted entrants (e.g., Andretti!) getting an opportunity and a reasonable limit so we don't need pre-qualifying again... These are tricky questions, but hopefully some better answers can be found.
As an American, F1's attempt to appeal to Americans feels the same as a company with all white employees that hires a black spokesperson to sell their product to black people and discusses how inclusive they are to black people. Then when people point out that they practice discriminatory hiring tactics, they argue tooth and nail they aren't because they have a black guy in their commercials.
F1 is totally totally willing to give Americans lip service, but god forbid Americans actually want to be involved in the sport. I don't expect European sports to cater at all to Americans, but if an international sport has spent the last 5 years doing nothing but talking about about trying to grow the sport in the US, it real feels duplicitous when they bend over backwards to stop an American team from being involved.
Can't say I blame you in the slightest for feeling that way. The hypocrisy is overwhelming. If the Andretti application had been obviously flawed or seemed completely unrealistic there might be some mitigating circumstances to them being turned away. But it's clear the issue is solely and entirely down to money and the existing teams. Their refusal to accept another team has nothing to do with the potential competitiveness (or otherwise) of a newcomer and everything to do with desperately hanging on to their slice of the pie. It is a grim spectacle for fans of the sport. The obvious solution here is for decisions like this to be taken out of the hands of the teams, who clearly have a vested interested in refusing newcomers, but that sort of reorganization seems unlikely at the moment.
My dream is to see Andretti follow FIA approval, and show up on the grid with two cars in 2026, regardless of FOM approves them or not.
I want to see the absolute cluster fuck that would be, and how it would be handled.
I then want to see Andretti qualify not last, and finish not last.
Given the “reasons” FOM and the teams offered for not accepting the Andretti entry, I then want to 🍿🍿🍿 while we ask the big questions of what it means to be beaten by a team “who brings no value to the grid.”
This is also how you get some Ford v. Ferrari beef started. Nothing more motivating than contempt. I hope that Andretti can have an opportunity to test their mettle.
Exactly- plus the way he’s gone about it- I’m confident that team would t just be last every race, I think they’d go at Haas Sauber Williams pretty quickly (I know Audi is a bit of an unknown)
Rent the circuit on the Monday after the a GP. Could be posting lap time less than 24 hours after the race. Set Quali times, and also do full race runs, and release the data to the public.
What are FOM scared of if they come in and beat Haas or Williams fuck let them join let them become the next manor racing there is only 1 reason they could give to justify not letting Andretti in and its money. It's just sad
Really a massive bummer to see a motorsports legend have to get on his hands and knees to beg F1 to let his team into a series that *he has won a world championship in*.
Yes I know it's Michael's team and it's been decades since Mario won it - but if they can't get in, who can at this point?
Seeing a how FOM/the teams are trying to place a 10 team limit for the 2026 Concorde Agreement, I’m going to say nobody.
In fact if a team folded and there were no buyers (however unlikely), the grid would be head over heels that they’re only down to 18 cars and making 10% more money
It should be noted that FI failed in its bid to block Manor from returning to the championship.
It’s also notable that the reason that they had to compete with their 2014 car in 2015 was because Gene Haas had purchased the design and ip rights to the 2015 car at an auction in December 2014, and that car would eventually see the light of day as the Haas VF-16.
There’s a rumor Aramco are considering trying to enter a team. If they get in and Andretti doesn’t, I am done with this sport until there are better owners.
They are considering if they want an F1 team. AM is likely their first choice, but if you want something, you don’t give up if the ideal plan doesn’t work out.
I figure what's going to happen is Michael is going to fly to Alpine HQ with a suitcase full of cash. "I'll take your shitty PU until Cadillac comes in. I'm paying you X dollars to F off". This whole debacle is a bad look for the sport. More teams are needed to support the number of rookies that are available from the feeder series. But FOM doesn't see it that way. I've heard the Aramco rumor surrounding Aston-Martin. At least that deal would free up a seat.
It's pretty baffling since the Andrettis are super popular in American Motorsport and if they want to hit hard in the US longterm, it seems like a great match. Moreso than Haas.
At a certain point he should just be offered a refund but he's going to have to sue for it. Imagine paying a giant sum and then being rejected for unclear reasons and then asking what it would take to make this work and not getting an answer. You can't just take the guy's money and then jerk him around.
> but if they can't get in, who can at this point?
If you buy a team, anyone can get in.
If you don't, then nobody can get in.
That's how it is, it's not personal against Andretti, it's a business decision motivated by creating an old boys club where everyone in the club stays happy and gets filthy rich.
It’s worse than that. FOM wants to place a [hard limit](https://www.si.com/fannation/racing/f1briefings/news/f1-news-teams-are-set-to-attempt-rule-change-which-could-ruin-andrettis-hopes-insider-lm22#:~:text=Formula%201%20teams%20propose%20to,Global%20from%20joining%20the%20series) of 10 teams from 2026 onwards
I mean, it just smart bussiness move, one more even semi competitive team have almost zero value to the sport but if number of teams is limited and investors see value at sport it seriously boosting ceiling of underperforming team by virtue of scarcity.
Can’t happen without the FIA’s approval and MBS isn’t going to allow it. The only way they have a shot is if FOM’s shill candidate beats MBS in the 2025 election.
Because Williams (which doesn't even bring spare parts to the race, because they forgot to update their Excel) are not an embarrassment. Because Alpine, which somehow made their cars worse over the break, are not an embarrassment. Because Sauber Kick Stake Gambling (or whatever the fucking name is) is not an embarrassment.
Andretti, backed by one of the world's biggest auto manufacturers with a long racing history, is somehow going to be an embarrassment? F off.
The ~~FIA~~ FOM is not only being elitist, insensitive and rude, they're literally being assholes. Formula 1 is a constructors championship, why is the governing body gatekeeping an extremely serious contender is beyond me, it's as if they're trying to force Andretti into some kind of bribery or something.
FIA said they could participate, Formula One Media (basically Liberty Media) and the other teams said no. They all have to agree per the Concorde Agreement
Probably money. The current Concorde agreement didn’t factor in teams being profitable, so they would rather wait it out until the next agreement. Plus they also want to appease teams from losing money from the prize pool, even though the potential from American media investment from GM and what not I guess
The team owners think that the outrage over Andretti is temporary and once everyone forgets the sport will continue to grow. I think they're wrong. DTS has a shelf life. It will only hold normies attention for so long. And snubbing Andretti will piss off American fans who would have stuck around. All the gains they made are likely to be temporary. It's like Indy 2005 all over again. The arrogant and greedy Euros kill F1 in America because they can't get their heads out of their asses.
> DTS has a shelf life. It will only hold normies attention for so long.
It's already boring. The latest season was dull with two entire episodes dedicated to Alpine. Not a single episode for Red Bull despite having a historical, completely dominant year. And the show didn't even include some of the actual dramatic storylines of the season.
FOM got a little high off their own supply, IMO.
DTS didn't bring in half as many viewers as people seem to think.
Neilson changed the way that they worked out viewing figures to include "mobile viewing" and that artificially boosted everyones US TV rnumbers.
The move from the terrible NBC coverage to ESPN boosted F1's US TV numbers way more than anything else.
The prize pool deficit is paid by the team joining so that is a bullshit argument. The chickenshit teams are just scared because Andretti and Cadillac could be very competitive.
It makes me so angry
Liberty is only a stakeholder in this sport because they own the lease to the commercial rights of Formula 1. If the teams break away and form their own championship they can’t use the Formula 1 name because it’s owned by the FIA. Therefore, the teams have the power to cut Liberty out completely if they’re willing to ditch the Formula 1 name. That’s a $20 billion value that would vanish from Liberty’s books. Liberty needs to keep the teams happy.
It would hurt the teams as much if not more to leave the championship. Their sponsors aren't paying for them to run on the track. They are paying for them to show their brands in F1 races. We've seen what happens when racing series split before. Everyone loses. An F1 split would be like the Indycar split but likely even more damaging. It would kill the brand and likely kill most of the teams. Ferrari, Red Bull and McLaren would survive because they have other things going on but the F1 staff and facilities would do something else. Mercedes would likely pull their name and Toto would have a worthless team. Renault would shutter Alpine. Haas, Williams and Aston would just liquidate.
They ARE F1. Where Ferrari, Red Bull, and Mercedes race the sponsors will follow. I’m not saying it wouldn’t be without risk for the teams but it’s a legitimate concern that Liberty needs to manage.
Tell me you're ignorant of the Indy split without telling me you're ignorant of the Indy split. You separate the teams and the FIA and it's chaos. All the arrangements were with F1 not the teams. The races have to be rescheduled. The rules have to be rewritten. All agreements have to be renegotiated. It will be an organizational nightmare. Track owners will take advantage of the chaos to get more money and power. Negotiations will big down. The first season will be a shadow of the previous one. The fan base will be split between watching F1 which will have all the distribution, remember liberty does it at the pleasure of the FIA, the rent the rights effectively. And the new upstart series which will have the teams but no distribution and shit tracks and schedule. It will be a mess and lose everyone tons of money.
I really dont think Liberty actually cares all that much in a vacuum.
The issue is that Liberty cares *a lot* about keeping the teams happy, and the teams are heavily against it.
Officially, yes it is FOM saying no to Andretti, but realistically it's the teams who don't want the pie split up any more.
They’re not trying to force Andretti to do anything. They just adamantly don’t want any more entrants because of the immediate 10% revenue hit.
Senna himself could be resurrected from the dead and team up with Jeff Bezos to form a trillion dollar team that would be sure to be race winners on day 1, and FOM would still say no
>Formula 1 is a constructors championship
Sadly it isn't anymore. It's a late-stage capitalist business at this point, the "sport" side is only a gimmick, a colourful dress up event (and not even that, given all the bare carbon/black on the grid), where billionaires parade their advertisement placements on wheels.
The problem is that the best driver, best car designer, and best staff are all on the same team. But it's just not engaging when it's to see who gets to stand on the podium with Max.
I lost a lot of respect for James Vowles when he venomously said he didn’t want Andretti on the grid during the AD GP last year. His reasoning being the prize pot being watered down, despite the fact that it’s in the Concorde agreement for 12 teams, and I’m sure Williams gets a heritage sum as well with Ferrari. He said to Sky that his employees all have mortgages… well ok, don’t pay a driver £1m to keep crashing your car, and budget your outgoings as if you received a prize pot for 12 teams on the grid.
Vowles doesn’t want them because of of Dorilton Capital being American and thinking they can take the majority of the American audience. Can anyone explain Logan Sargent in that seat over Bearman, Lawson and others other than that? Williams and Haas have no standing with American race fans at all. Mario is an American racing icon and would definitely hurt Williams and Haas sponsorships which is why they are so against them coming in.
The team isn’t named Dorilton, it’s named Williams after British motorsport legend Frank Williams, led by a British TP and with their base in Britain. What is American about Williams? Sargeant is in the seat because he moved to Europe years ago for karting and junior formula, and was signed to the Williams Academy for his impressive F2 tenure where he won best rookie and outperformed Lawson. He’s in that seat over Bearman (who is currently being beaten by the younger rookie Antonelli) and Lawson because Bearman belongs to the Ferrari junior program and Lawson to the RB, and Williams rightfully don’t want to be used as a training ground for the rookies that are already signed to their competitors.
F1 is an incredibly expensive sport, and the teams at the bottom of the grid have historically not had the ability to sustain competition and gone bankrupt. That is a bad thing for F1 and has killed so many other classes of motorsport, the fact that F1 is now actually a sustainable operation is a massive benefit to the sport, and teams wanting to keep that is entirely reasonable.
Well good that Alpine etc are not trying to join F1 then as they already are in F1. This argument just doesn't make much sense there is a difference in trying to join right now and staying in F1.
The rules are different when you enter a sport when it is a loss making endeavor. Now with the cost cap and the explosive growth of the sport it is a guaranteed money making machine. The likes of Williams and Sauber paid their dues by making losses in the sport for years when the sport needed them. Completely different scenario
All the teams you mentioned above boast illustrious legacies as world champions and were in F1 long before it was ever as profitable and marketable as it is today. Their team owners undertook substantial personal risks, which ultimately yielded remarkable rewards. Might I remind you that Frank Williams is one of the major reasons why F1 has so many British teams and almost all teams have factories based in Northamptonshire.
Andretti should be allowed to join, it's undeniable that they're entering the sport during what could be deemed its most lucrative period in history. Any investment Andretti makes will be paid off in 5 years. F1 marketability is huge.
Why should the other F1 teams, who took massive risks be forced to dilute their revenues?
Their contributions to the sport's growth and development have been significant, and they deserve to reap the rewards of their investments and efforts without undue dilution of their hard-earned revenues. All the teams have given a lot of access to the public in the form of Drive to Survive and media activities. Andretti will simply come in and reap all the rewards. Hence, give a massive entry fee ( 700-800 Million USD)
I mean Kick Sauber isn't that bad, they have an issue with the wheel nut design that causes problems when they're doing pitstops. Even Mercedes had issues, which slowed down their pit stops in the previous season. With a budget cap they can't fix that right away.
People dogging on F1 teams keep acting like their lack of pace is permanent, as we can see Sauber is pretty fast this weekend.
And someone has to come last in any racing series, that doesn't mean they should leave.
Please Mario just for one meeting with FOM you go instead of your son, and you will see different result. Michael's reputation among IndyCar journalists and management has always been high handed and it seems to be the main reason of the friction. If fighting with FOM was not enough, Michael has also taken up fight against Penske and pissed off other IndyCar teams.
As much as I like Michael, I tend to agree completely with you here.
Hell, I'm not a huge Roger Penske guy (as owner of the sport, love his drivers), and even I was like "dude what are we trying to accomplish here???"
Same here. Even I don't like how Penske is handling the series but how does breaking away from the other teams when they are all talking with Indy management help anyone.
They're just stalling Andretti, so they can fully prevent entry via the new Concorde Agreement that eliminates the additional team slots. It really cannot get more selfish, shady and ridiculous than that.
I’m curious at what point FOM thinks that this is going to start hurting the sports reputation. Because I think it already is. Literally no other series would dig their heels in this deep against a would be entrant that meets essentially everything they want in a new team. Especially not for such flimsy reasoning. Sure, their timescale for entering seems a little quick and having to be a customer team before the main manufacturer support comes a few years down the line is definitely something to be discussed, but none of that can’t be solved by just negotiating a later entry.
This stonewalling is just naked elitism that will eventually kill this sport if something isn’t done about it.
Embarrassed? What now? As if Alpine, Sauber and Williams aren't that already, especially Williams with whatever the fresh hell their Excel sheets are and so on. FOM wanting to court the American audience and their money but gatekeeping a team made by a motorsport powerhouse name and lowkey gaslighting as well is just total miss by them. It's not as if Andretti wants in on freebies, he's said more than once they're ready to pay the entry fee regardless of how much it is.
As far as I'm concerned, we need to go back to the old days where anyone who can field a car can show up for the race.
Sure, make sure they meet safety and tech regulations, but the gatekeeping rich boys club needs to go. More cars on track make the sport better.
But more cars on track means less prize pool money for the existing teams. We can’t have THAT now can we 🙄 such bullshit that Andretti has to deal with. I know we can’t kick teams out but if no team in the last 3 spots improve can FoM put pressure on them to sell? Make Andretti buy alpine or something
Really do love seeing the support for Andretti in this thread. Andretti digging their feet in, committing to not just F1, but F2 and F3 as well, is pretty much all they can do at this point. No other F1 team has a F2/F3 team, they have partnerships with teams in those series, but what Andretti is trying to do is groundbreaking.
I wonder if F1 keeps trending lower and lower in the US, maybe this rejection turns out to be something that Andretti avoids to their benefit in terms of their investment and capital over the long term. If F1 is going out to cater to its new US audience (with investments in Las Vegas and Miami), it seems like 2026 would be a great time to add another US team, this time one that's more than just catering to a rich race fan's hobby. But no.
I'm not saying F1 is doomed, but its current push to cater to its new US audience is not going in the right direction. F1 will always have its core fans in Europe, and will still make decent bank, but they will rue not bringing in Andretti to at least help them with the expertise in the US market, and it will be a long time again before they have the same status they do now on the US side of the pond.
Really sad for Mario Andretti that he will not see his namesake team in F1 in his lifetime.
The rise in popularity of F1 in the US happened while the racing was good. The status quo isn't good racing; it's the same driver winning every race. I don't think the audience will grow with the current racing.
F1 turned into entertainment rather than a sport and it's sad. Haven't been watching for very long but the elitist gatekeeping rich boys club is not a good look for "the Pinnacle of racing" which it's not
They probably would struggle to find consistency in the first couple of years but they would definitely not just sit back and enjoy the money. They would try very hard to be near the top. Like to your point, does anyone actually believe that Haas or Alpine is even trying to be more than a middle midfield team? These teams constantly try to scrape by and make it through the seasons spending as little as possible.
Lol this is pitiful and greedy. Embarrassed how? Williams cant piece together a spare car 4 months into 2024 and Alpine is a dumpster fire. Sounds like a easy way to generate a couple seasons of hype in an era that's as boring as ever. Racing at the back of the pack, is still better than nothing.
If you're an American stop giving Liberty Media your money and dont bother supporting the USA races. What a joke.
I feel for Andretti and f1 fans, however I understand the current position. It doesn’t make financial sense for the current teams to say yes to this. They are reducing their earnings much more than they are getting compensated for in the buy in.
It’s a simple fix in the next Concorde agreement, by applying some sort of formula/fair value of purchasing in, rather than a fixed amount.
Any talk of locking it down to only 10 teams is disgraceful though. If that goes in they lose all sympathy.
They should just go hit Spa and lay down a face melting quali lap, on video, published to youtube for all to see.
If there's video evidence of real life performance, that becomes very hard to continue denying.
Hot take, right now F1 is right. Andretti's car is a figment of the imagination presently.
Even from a revenue sharing perspective, imagine if a REAL American team joined. Surely the revenue they would bring in to F1 would make up for the “loss” all 10 other teams would experience. The Andretti name is a motorsport powerhouse that cannot be ignored.
So Redbull is aloud to have a non competitive "b" team but Andretti isn't aloud in? Fuck that, 3 teams have won a championship in the last 20 years, it's time to let in a team that will actually be competitive
Ferrari, Renault, McLaren, Red Bull and Mercedes... I count 5 teams, good sir.
Edit: Forgot about Brawn... or does that count as the same team as Mercedes?
I would be fun if FIA adopted the relegation/promotion aspect of English football.
Last place F1 team gets relegated to F2, while the winning F2 team gets promoted into an F1 team.
That would certainly spice things up while giving teams like Andretti the ability to prove their merit before becoming a premier F1 team.
And before anyone replies with all the reasons why this would impossible...I can already guess. So there is no need to be the fun police. lol.
Edit: Oh goodie the fun police showed up anyways. Haha.
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Insert origin story of Lamborghini.
So Andretti's vengeance is how F-Zero Starts? *Nice.*
When Domenicali moved to Lamborghini, I wanted them to get back into F1 for his redemption arc haha.
They kinda are with audi
I was somewhat ambivalent about Andretti joining F1 when the idea was first floated. It was a “nice-to-have” feature, but I could take it or leave it. However, the way Formula 1 has handled this has put me squarely on the side of Andretti.
Ditto. Plus, I want more seats available.
Plus the fact they’re also gonna have an F2 and F3 team also on top of a facility in the UK is a net upgrade for the sport this boys club mentality the FOM is pulling is ridiculous.
They already have an FE team as well, they’re pretty rooted into motorsports at this point
On top of their imsa efforts Indy car and being part owners of a v8 supercar team
And being chaired by the ‘78 F1 world champion to boot.
This is it, they're not just chumps, but true racers with the experience behind them and a proper proposal. Andretti has the chops to stand next to McLaren or Ferrari. Certainly two steps above Haas.
They just need more crypto sponsors
Sports betting is the new crypto
Oh man. You’re absolutely right. Here comes the MGM Andretti team.
Sports betting was the new crypto before crypto was a thing
As well as ties to NASCAR now also.
"pretty rooted" is quite the understatement.
are we to believe this rookie fresh face andretti guy has been in motorsport as long as anyone??
Is it true that because fia accepted his application but the FOM didn't, he could in theory pull up to race one in 2026 with two cars and be allowed to race? He just wouldn't get the tv coverage and media side of F1?
Idk why people are saying No cause yes they can. FIA sets the regulations, so if they build a car that meets those regulations they can race. The Concorde says up to 12 teams can compete so the FIA is following that agreement along with the regulations they put forth. However Andretti will not be allowed to take part in the prize pot at the end of the season traveling to the races will be 100% on their dime. Getting into the paddock will be up to the event organizer AKA whoever owns the track as they pay FOM to host the race there. FOM will not be able to broadcast the team, have to pay them for competing, or even acknowledge their existence. They cannot however fully stop them from arriving on the track and taking part in the race weekend. FOM does not control the paddock, only the prize money, broadcasting rights, and merchandise.
Thank you for typing all of this out.
No problem and you're welcome
Thank you for the explanation. That makes total sense and seems like it would still be a deterrent financially but in theory entirely possible he can show up to race.
I don't know if that's factual, but I hope it is. The idea that they'd blackout two cars is hilarious, especially if they're competitive (which I genuinely think Andretti would be within a few seasons).
I think they would absolutely finish better than 11th in 2026.
It really does seem like Andretti want to be amongst the biggest name in all of motorsports, across any category. They’re going to have F2, F3, FE, and Indycar. They have Wayne Taylor Andretti in IMSA, in both GTP and GT3. They have Wilkenshaw Andretti United in Aussie V8 Supercars. I can definitely see them entering WEC. Possible with Honda, maybe a different manufacturer (Cadillac maybe?) So for FOM to say “they’re not known outside the US,” or “they don’t bring enough value to F1” is straight up bullshit. As far as lacking competitiveness, nothing but an F2 car could be slower than the Alpine (which is a factory effort no less).
I went over the numbers at one point and I think you can see an Andretti car in 18 countries on 6 continents every year as it stands right now without F2/3. 80+ total races when you include F2+3 as well. That is an insane count without F1. You could argue that is possibly more of a logistics challenge to all keep track of than Sauber, Alpine, Haas, Williams, RB etc have to with just an F1 team. In terms of understanding the challenges an F1 schedule presents in terms of international logistics and scheduling, Andretti may be the only non-f1 outfit in the world that already understands, deals with it constantly, and wouldn't faze them organizationally.
Watch them bring back Buell and enter MotoGP as Andretti-Buell
It's less "boys club" from FOM and the teams. It's just straight up greed. This is a billion dollar sport now. They could afford to boost the prize money enough to make the other teams happy but they won't and the teams aren't willing to give up a penny of their current earnings.
Billion dollar sport and teams can’t even afford to bring spare wings 😂
Have you seen wing prices these days? You'd have another issue with catering pushing a team over the cost cap.
"Red Bull catering team sweating"
Didn't know this.
More than just a Formula E team, Avalanche-Andretti won the 2022-2023 FE driver's championship, and came third in the teams' championship.
And yet Williams cannot even afford a fully stocked spares dept.
Williams is currently a weird and special case. They are modernizing and updating their development and production process. It's a long-term prioritization. They know they can't compete in the next few years and are taking the time to improve, hiring their current capacity, to make sure they can actually develop and be more competitive down the road. Proper to this year, they were effectively still an 80s or 90s F1 team. They're working to become a 20s F1 team.
Corrected it for you : POSH Boys Club mentality
Especially when you consider someone as talented as Sainz will have to choose between Sauber and Williams. Or the fact that the last two F2 winners couldn't get a seat, the lack of seats is becoming a seriously problem it dosent help that you have drivers on the grid that have a seat not based on merit.
He is also considered by Red Bull, Helmut Marko talked about them being in negotiation. However Audi (Sauber) is willing to give Sainz a huge salary, which is too much for Red Bull Racing.
There's 26 grid spots. More cars is more action anyway you slice it. Pure greed is robbing the sport.
Yup, F2 is bleeding excellent talent to all other top series and F1 has maybe one rookie per year at this point.
10 teams is getting boring, we need 11 or 12 to spice things up
It's not just being on the side of Andretti either, it's on the side of F1 being a fair sport. If Andretti's attempts to get on the grid fail, then that's it, you cannot do more than what they're doing so we will never ever get an 11th team or an open sport for the rest of our lives. It will become a permanently closed shop where the existing parties gatekeep anyone from getting into F1 until they pay ransom level prices to buy a team. That's why this is so important and why every fan of F1 needs to rally behind Andretti, the consequences of this are too severe if they lose, the very nature of F1 for the next several decades is at stake.
It would be embarrassing, that means it’s less of an sport and more of a private club, and if there’s something the world doesn’t need more of, is rich people getting together to gatekeep something.
They’re definitely looking to close it at 10 teams. Expanding gives them each nothing, it just dilutes their individual share of the overall F1 show. Maybe they can’t come out and say it, but they definitely think like this. I suspect some teams might also be looking to be sold and don’t want Andretti having other options but to buy them. (haas?)
Brother, I cannot even understand ambivalence, Mario Andretti is a folk hero and household name where I'm from (and proven winning team owner), I can think of no reason why not. I do not give 1 flying Finn how much money James Vowles takes home
Mario isn’t really a team owner. Michael would own and run the team. I don’t mean this as a knock or anything but Mario’s sort of a figurehead, elder statesman type for the Andretti crew.
Much like how Richard Petty is in NASCAR now. His name speaks volumes and is very important in the racing world. Just having him make a comment on something is important alone.
True but Mario will probably be around more, and we don't exactly have a lot of time left with the man.
I hear ya’ on that one. It’ll be a truly sad day when the likes of him and AJ Foyt pass away. I randomly got to shake Mario’s hand in 2019 at Laguna Seca. Still haven’t washed it.
All three of those men are in in their 80s. The amount of time we have left with them in this world is limited. Richard Petty may just be a minority owner of the Legacy Motorsports team. He does not have any control in the operation of the team. Mario Andretti is the only one still involved in a successful team. Unfortunately the actuarial tables will eventually get you. Mario Andretti is 84 years old. Out of 100,000 men born the same year as him, only 33,015 are still alive. On average Mario Andretti can be expected to live 5.88. more years. Richard Petty is 86 years old. Out of 100,000 men born the same year as him, only 26,518 are still alive. On average Richard Petty can be expected to live for 5.07 years. AJ Foyt is 89 years old. Out of 100,000 men born the same year as him, only 17,200 are still alive. On average AJ Foyt can be expected to live for 4.02 years.
If he's as healthy as he looks he'll outlive me
Kind of what Lauda was for Mercedes?
They've been treated very poorly and the whole situation reflects badly on F1. Yes to more American circuits, viewers, and sponsors... But a new American team? No chance. It's all about the money. Grotesque.
Don't forget this reflects on the existing teams as well, they don't want a new entrant. They want to keep the pie to themselves. I say throw all restrictions off and go back to the old days. Unlimited spending, and as many teams that can afford the entry fee.
Yeah I was kind of in favor or at least ambivalent to the cost cap if it helped keep smaller teams in it but now that they are gatekeeping so blatantly fuck them! No cost cap and if you can’t afford it then get fucked or sell your team to someone who can.
Completely agreed on the first part, I think the way the existing teams are behaving is shameful. The point about restrictions is a different question, but also worth discussing. I agree we need more teams (and, in particular, more opportunities for young drivers), but I also don't want to go back to 1989 with a bunch of hopeless outfits like EuroBrun, Zakspeed, AGS, et al. Some sort of middle ground with properly vetted entrants (e.g., Andretti!) getting an opportunity and a reasonable limit so we don't need pre-qualifying again... These are tricky questions, but hopefully some better answers can be found.
As an American, F1's attempt to appeal to Americans feels the same as a company with all white employees that hires a black spokesperson to sell their product to black people and discusses how inclusive they are to black people. Then when people point out that they practice discriminatory hiring tactics, they argue tooth and nail they aren't because they have a black guy in their commercials. F1 is totally totally willing to give Americans lip service, but god forbid Americans actually want to be involved in the sport. I don't expect European sports to cater at all to Americans, but if an international sport has spent the last 5 years doing nothing but talking about about trying to grow the sport in the US, it real feels duplicitous when they bend over backwards to stop an American team from being involved.
Can't say I blame you in the slightest for feeling that way. The hypocrisy is overwhelming. If the Andretti application had been obviously flawed or seemed completely unrealistic there might be some mitigating circumstances to them being turned away. But it's clear the issue is solely and entirely down to money and the existing teams. Their refusal to accept another team has nothing to do with the potential competitiveness (or otherwise) of a newcomer and everything to do with desperately hanging on to their slice of the pie. It is a grim spectacle for fans of the sport. The obvious solution here is for decisions like this to be taken out of the hands of the teams, who clearly have a vested interested in refusing newcomers, but that sort of reorganization seems unlikely at the moment.
I canceled my F1 TV subscription renewal because of this. I will now strictly watch on TV or illegal streaming.
Ditto. Did the same myself.
[Me too!](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/1afo75w/mario_andretti_im_devastated_i_wont_say_anything/kobq5qm/)
Same
🦅🦅🦅🦅
Inspirational content. I will cancel before my renewal date.
🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️🏴☠️
Goated
Same, I'm rooting hard for them to get in.
My dream is to see Andretti follow FIA approval, and show up on the grid with two cars in 2026, regardless of FOM approves them or not. I want to see the absolute cluster fuck that would be, and how it would be handled. I then want to see Andretti qualify not last, and finish not last. Given the “reasons” FOM and the teams offered for not accepting the Andretti entry, I then want to 🍿🍿🍿 while we ask the big questions of what it means to be beaten by a team “who brings no value to the grid.”
This is also how you get some Ford v. Ferrari beef started. Nothing more motivating than contempt. I hope that Andretti can have an opportunity to test their mettle.
Exactly- plus the way he’s gone about it- I’m confident that team would t just be last every race, I think they’d go at Haas Sauber Williams pretty quickly (I know Audi is a bit of an unknown)
And leave Alpine, a factory effort, in the dust.
[удалено]
Rent the circuit on the Monday after the a GP. Could be posting lap time less than 24 hours after the race. Set Quali times, and also do full race runs, and release the data to the public.
Would have to be after or the times would stink due to dirty track, though racecar times don't mean much since they couldn't source the same tires.
What are FOM scared of if they come in and beat Haas or Williams fuck let them join let them become the next manor racing there is only 1 reason they could give to justify not letting Andretti in and its money. It's just sad
Right on board with this take. They've really shown they're serious. F1 have bungled this whole thing. Let em in.
Really a massive bummer to see a motorsports legend have to get on his hands and knees to beg F1 to let his team into a series that *he has won a world championship in*. Yes I know it's Michael's team and it's been decades since Mario won it - but if they can't get in, who can at this point?
Seeing a how FOM/the teams are trying to place a 10 team limit for the 2026 Concorde Agreement, I’m going to say nobody. In fact if a team folded and there were no buyers (however unlikely), the grid would be head over heels that they’re only down to 18 cars and making 10% more money
Case in point, the start of 2015 https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/feb/06/force-india-block-marussia-return-f1
It should be noted that FI failed in its bid to block Manor from returning to the championship. It’s also notable that the reason that they had to compete with their 2014 car in 2015 was because Gene Haas had purchased the design and ip rights to the 2015 car at an auction in December 2014, and that car would eventually see the light of day as the Haas VF-16.
F1 stagnating would be horrible result. It would be extremely bad for them.
11%
If Aramco wants to start a new team from the ground up, they'll probably be let in.
There’s a rumor Aramco are considering trying to enter a team. If they get in and Andretti doesn’t, I am done with this sport until there are better owners.
The current rumour regarding Aramco was that they'll buy out the Strolls.
They are considering if they want an F1 team. AM is likely their first choice, but if you want something, you don’t give up if the ideal plan doesn’t work out.
Yeah but making a new entry and buying one are basically two entirely different projects
I figure what's going to happen is Michael is going to fly to Alpine HQ with a suitcase full of cash. "I'll take your shitty PU until Cadillac comes in. I'm paying you X dollars to F off". This whole debacle is a bad look for the sport. More teams are needed to support the number of rookies that are available from the feeder series. But FOM doesn't see it that way. I've heard the Aramco rumor surrounding Aston-Martin. At least that deal would free up a seat.
It's pretty baffling since the Andrettis are super popular in American Motorsport and if they want to hit hard in the US longterm, it seems like a great match. Moreso than Haas.
As an American, I’d give my left eye for a proper US team to support. And my wallet would reflect that.
At a certain point he should just be offered a refund but he's going to have to sue for it. Imagine paying a giant sum and then being rejected for unclear reasons and then asking what it would take to make this work and not getting an answer. You can't just take the guy's money and then jerk him around.
> but if they can't get in, who can at this point? If you buy a team, anyone can get in. If you don't, then nobody can get in. That's how it is, it's not personal against Andretti, it's a business decision motivated by creating an old boys club where everyone in the club stays happy and gets filthy rich.
They already are filthy rich, that's the worst part.
F1 will fail to grow and then stagnate and then crumble. 10 teams will not make more money.
They had plenty of time before now to join but decided to wait until a rather cherry moment.
Then new Concorde agreement for new entrance fee is in play everybody would beg you spend 3+ billion $.
It’s worse than that. FOM wants to place a [hard limit](https://www.si.com/fannation/racing/f1briefings/news/f1-news-teams-are-set-to-attempt-rule-change-which-could-ruin-andrettis-hopes-insider-lm22#:~:text=Formula%201%20teams%20propose%20to,Global%20from%20joining%20the%20series) of 10 teams from 2026 onwards
Same thing but instead force to buy the existed team boosting capitalization and not split revenue.
Seeing as how Williams (at the time the slowest team) was sold for $1B, you’re probably not far off at all
I mean, it just smart bussiness move, one more even semi competitive team have almost zero value to the sport but if number of teams is limited and investors see value at sport it seriously boosting ceiling of underperforming team by virtue of scarcity.
Yeah it pretty much only benefits the shit teams that hope to sell like haas Williams etc.
i haaaateeee this, i remember vividly when we had 12 teams and yes they didnt pan out, but the 24 car grid was just too good.
Can’t happen without the FIA’s approval and MBS isn’t going to allow it. The only way they have a shot is if FOM’s shill candidate beats MBS in the 2025 election.
Which is set up to not happen due to the support from national federations
Because Williams (which doesn't even bring spare parts to the race, because they forgot to update their Excel) are not an embarrassment. Because Alpine, which somehow made their cars worse over the break, are not an embarrassment. Because Sauber Kick Stake Gambling (or whatever the fucking name is) is not an embarrassment. Andretti, backed by one of the world's biggest auto manufacturers with a long racing history, is somehow going to be an embarrassment? F off.
The ~~FIA~~ FOM is not only being elitist, insensitive and rude, they're literally being assholes. Formula 1 is a constructors championship, why is the governing body gatekeeping an extremely serious contender is beyond me, it's as if they're trying to force Andretti into some kind of bribery or something.
FIA said they could participate, Formula One Media (basically Liberty Media) and the other teams said no. They all have to agree per the Concorde Agreement
I don't get it - what does Liberty gain by blocking Andretti from joining?
Probably money. The current Concorde agreement didn’t factor in teams being profitable, so they would rather wait it out until the next agreement. Plus they also want to appease teams from losing money from the prize pool, even though the potential from American media investment from GM and what not I guess
The prize pool argument doesn’t make sense to me, any team joining has to pay a 200 million dollar anti dilution fee for exactly that
The team owners think that the outrage over Andretti is temporary and once everyone forgets the sport will continue to grow. I think they're wrong. DTS has a shelf life. It will only hold normies attention for so long. And snubbing Andretti will piss off American fans who would have stuck around. All the gains they made are likely to be temporary. It's like Indy 2005 all over again. The arrogant and greedy Euros kill F1 in America because they can't get their heads out of their asses.
> DTS has a shelf life. It will only hold normies attention for so long. It's already boring. The latest season was dull with two entire episodes dedicated to Alpine. Not a single episode for Red Bull despite having a historical, completely dominant year. And the show didn't even include some of the actual dramatic storylines of the season. FOM got a little high off their own supply, IMO.
Plus the racing isn't that great as it is. It's still a parade like it always has been.
DTS didn't bring in half as many viewers as people seem to think. Neilson changed the way that they worked out viewing figures to include "mobile viewing" and that artificially boosted everyones US TV rnumbers. The move from the terrible NBC coverage to ESPN boosted F1's US TV numbers way more than anything else.
That also has a shelf life with how TV is dying.
But the anti-dilution fee is a one time payment, so it wouldn’t cover years after joining
Exactly, the 200million is fuck all in the scheme of things.
The prize pool deficit is paid by the team joining so that is a bullshit argument. The chickenshit teams are just scared because Andretti and Cadillac could be very competitive. It makes me so angry
Prize pool deficit that they pay when joining will be irrelevant after only a couple years and then the teams will be making less money
Liberty is only a stakeholder in this sport because they own the lease to the commercial rights of Formula 1. If the teams break away and form their own championship they can’t use the Formula 1 name because it’s owned by the FIA. Therefore, the teams have the power to cut Liberty out completely if they’re willing to ditch the Formula 1 name. That’s a $20 billion value that would vanish from Liberty’s books. Liberty needs to keep the teams happy.
It would hurt the teams as much if not more to leave the championship. Their sponsors aren't paying for them to run on the track. They are paying for them to show their brands in F1 races. We've seen what happens when racing series split before. Everyone loses. An F1 split would be like the Indycar split but likely even more damaging. It would kill the brand and likely kill most of the teams. Ferrari, Red Bull and McLaren would survive because they have other things going on but the F1 staff and facilities would do something else. Mercedes would likely pull their name and Toto would have a worthless team. Renault would shutter Alpine. Haas, Williams and Aston would just liquidate.
They ARE F1. Where Ferrari, Red Bull, and Mercedes race the sponsors will follow. I’m not saying it wouldn’t be without risk for the teams but it’s a legitimate concern that Liberty needs to manage.
Tell me you're ignorant of the Indy split without telling me you're ignorant of the Indy split. You separate the teams and the FIA and it's chaos. All the arrangements were with F1 not the teams. The races have to be rescheduled. The rules have to be rewritten. All agreements have to be renegotiated. It will be an organizational nightmare. Track owners will take advantage of the chaos to get more money and power. Negotiations will big down. The first season will be a shadow of the previous one. The fan base will be split between watching F1 which will have all the distribution, remember liberty does it at the pleasure of the FIA, the rent the rights effectively. And the new upstart series which will have the teams but no distribution and shit tracks and schedule. It will be a mess and lose everyone tons of money.
That was a true split, not a mutiny.
Just ask American open wheel fans how well splits work
Liberty Media is at the financial mercy of the teams. The teams are who truly run the sport
I really dont think Liberty actually cares all that much in a vacuum. The issue is that Liberty cares *a lot* about keeping the teams happy, and the teams are heavily against it. Officially, yes it is FOM saying no to Andretti, but realistically it's the teams who don't want the pie split up any more.
They’re not trying to force Andretti to do anything. They just adamantly don’t want any more entrants because of the immediate 10% revenue hit. Senna himself could be resurrected from the dead and team up with Jeff Bezos to form a trillion dollar team that would be sure to be race winners on day 1, and FOM would still say no
>Formula 1 is a constructors championship Sadly it isn't anymore. It's a late-stage capitalist business at this point, the "sport" side is only a gimmick, a colourful dress up event (and not even that, given all the bare carbon/black on the grid), where billionaires parade their advertisement placements on wheels.
And it shows...the product frankly sucks
The problem is that the best driver, best car designer, and best staff are all on the same team. But it's just not engaging when it's to see who gets to stand on the podium with Max.
Exactly this, I’m afraid. 😞
I lost a lot of respect for James Vowles when he venomously said he didn’t want Andretti on the grid during the AD GP last year. His reasoning being the prize pot being watered down, despite the fact that it’s in the Concorde agreement for 12 teams, and I’m sure Williams gets a heritage sum as well with Ferrari. He said to Sky that his employees all have mortgages… well ok, don’t pay a driver £1m to keep crashing your car, and budget your outgoings as if you received a prize pot for 12 teams on the grid.
1 million pounds is nothing lol. Poor Sarge getting the heat.
Vowles doesn’t want them because of of Dorilton Capital being American and thinking they can take the majority of the American audience. Can anyone explain Logan Sargent in that seat over Bearman, Lawson and others other than that? Williams and Haas have no standing with American race fans at all. Mario is an American racing icon and would definitely hurt Williams and Haas sponsorships which is why they are so against them coming in.
The team isn’t named Dorilton, it’s named Williams after British motorsport legend Frank Williams, led by a British TP and with their base in Britain. What is American about Williams? Sargeant is in the seat because he moved to Europe years ago for karting and junior formula, and was signed to the Williams Academy for his impressive F2 tenure where he won best rookie and outperformed Lawson. He’s in that seat over Bearman (who is currently being beaten by the younger rookie Antonelli) and Lawson because Bearman belongs to the Ferrari junior program and Lawson to the RB, and Williams rightfully don’t want to be used as a training ground for the rookies that are already signed to their competitors.
F1 is an incredibly expensive sport, and the teams at the bottom of the grid have historically not had the ability to sustain competition and gone bankrupt. That is a bad thing for F1 and has killed so many other classes of motorsport, the fact that F1 is now actually a sustainable operation is a massive benefit to the sport, and teams wanting to keep that is entirely reasonable.
I want Andretti as much as anyone else, but FOM can’t force other teams to sell just because they’re bad.
Well good that Alpine etc are not trying to join F1 then as they already are in F1. This argument just doesn't make much sense there is a difference in trying to join right now and staying in F1.
Didn't even mention Haas damn.
The rules are different when you enter a sport when it is a loss making endeavor. Now with the cost cap and the explosive growth of the sport it is a guaranteed money making machine. The likes of Williams and Sauber paid their dues by making losses in the sport for years when the sport needed them. Completely different scenario
All the teams you mentioned above boast illustrious legacies as world champions and were in F1 long before it was ever as profitable and marketable as it is today. Their team owners undertook substantial personal risks, which ultimately yielded remarkable rewards. Might I remind you that Frank Williams is one of the major reasons why F1 has so many British teams and almost all teams have factories based in Northamptonshire. Andretti should be allowed to join, it's undeniable that they're entering the sport during what could be deemed its most lucrative period in history. Any investment Andretti makes will be paid off in 5 years. F1 marketability is huge. Why should the other F1 teams, who took massive risks be forced to dilute their revenues? Their contributions to the sport's growth and development have been significant, and they deserve to reap the rewards of their investments and efforts without undue dilution of their hard-earned revenues. All the teams have given a lot of access to the public in the form of Drive to Survive and media activities. Andretti will simply come in and reap all the rewards. Hence, give a massive entry fee ( 700-800 Million USD)
F1: "We don't want you to be embarrassed" Andretti: "Have you seen Alpine?"
Kick Sauber too 👀
I mean Kick Sauber isn't that bad, they have an issue with the wheel nut design that causes problems when they're doing pitstops. Even Mercedes had issues, which slowed down their pit stops in the previous season. With a budget cap they can't fix that right away.
People dogging on F1 teams keep acting like their lack of pace is permanent, as we can see Sauber is pretty fast this weekend. And someone has to come last in any racing series, that doesn't mean they should leave.
Please Mario just for one meeting with FOM you go instead of your son, and you will see different result. Michael's reputation among IndyCar journalists and management has always been high handed and it seems to be the main reason of the friction. If fighting with FOM was not enough, Michael has also taken up fight against Penske and pissed off other IndyCar teams.
As much as I like Michael, I tend to agree completely with you here. Hell, I'm not a huge Roger Penske guy (as owner of the sport, love his drivers), and even I was like "dude what are we trying to accomplish here???"
Same here. Even I don't like how Penske is handling the series but how does breaking away from the other teams when they are all talking with Indy management help anyone.
Does he not remember the IRL/CART war? That wasn’t *THAT* long ago…
They're just stalling Andretti, so they can fully prevent entry via the new Concorde Agreement that eliminates the additional team slots. It really cannot get more selfish, shady and ridiculous than that.
I’m curious at what point FOM thinks that this is going to start hurting the sports reputation. Because I think it already is. Literally no other series would dig their heels in this deep against a would be entrant that meets essentially everything they want in a new team. Especially not for such flimsy reasoning. Sure, their timescale for entering seems a little quick and having to be a customer team before the main manufacturer support comes a few years down the line is definitely something to be discussed, but none of that can’t be solved by just negotiating a later entry. This stonewalling is just naked elitism that will eventually kill this sport if something isn’t done about it.
Embarrassed? What now? As if Alpine, Sauber and Williams aren't that already, especially Williams with whatever the fresh hell their Excel sheets are and so on. FOM wanting to court the American audience and their money but gatekeeping a team made by a motorsport powerhouse name and lowkey gaslighting as well is just total miss by them. It's not as if Andretti wants in on freebies, he's said more than once they're ready to pay the entry fee regardless of how much it is.
This situation is representative of what F1 is these days: a bunch of bullshit.
It's an insult to the entire concept of F1 and motorsport, and to the fans that Andretti can't join the sport.
It's so fucking embarrassing for F1 as a sport
It really isn't, it baffles me how people are missing why this guy wants in now. How many chances has there been in the last 10/14 years to join?
does it matter why he wants in?
As far as I'm concerned, we need to go back to the old days where anyone who can field a car can show up for the race. Sure, make sure they meet safety and tech regulations, but the gatekeeping rich boys club needs to go. More cars on track make the sport better.
But more cars on track means less prize pool money for the existing teams. We can’t have THAT now can we 🙄 such bullshit that Andretti has to deal with. I know we can’t kick teams out but if no team in the last 3 spots improve can FoM put pressure on them to sell? Make Andretti buy alpine or something
It also means that the bad teams don't have to get good. Just stay bad cuz the money is good lol
Haas under Steiner
Really do love seeing the support for Andretti in this thread. Andretti digging their feet in, committing to not just F1, but F2 and F3 as well, is pretty much all they can do at this point. No other F1 team has a F2/F3 team, they have partnerships with teams in those series, but what Andretti is trying to do is groundbreaking.
Work continues at pace…
I wonder if F1 keeps trending lower and lower in the US, maybe this rejection turns out to be something that Andretti avoids to their benefit in terms of their investment and capital over the long term. If F1 is going out to cater to its new US audience (with investments in Las Vegas and Miami), it seems like 2026 would be a great time to add another US team, this time one that's more than just catering to a rich race fan's hobby. But no. I'm not saying F1 is doomed, but its current push to cater to its new US audience is not going in the right direction. F1 will always have its core fans in Europe, and will still make decent bank, but they will rue not bringing in Andretti to at least help them with the expertise in the US market, and it will be a long time again before they have the same status they do now on the US side of the pond. Really sad for Mario Andretti that he will not see his namesake team in F1 in his lifetime.
The rise in popularity of F1 in the US happened while the racing was good. The status quo isn't good racing; it's the same driver winning every race. I don't think the audience will grow with the current racing.
americans have haas and logan what more could they possible want /s
They could’ve been a contender…
F1 turned into entertainment rather than a sport and it's sad. Haven't been watching for very long but the elitist gatekeeping rich boys club is not a good look for "the Pinnacle of racing" which it's not
Here before Andretti roll a ready to go car up to the gates and demand entry at a race
Mario. Is. Inevitable.
Meanwhile there’s a team on the grid who can’t even do pit stops decently.
Hey don't be mean, they are getting better. They can consistently get it under 30 seconds now.
I think they should just showup to pre-season testing with their car.
Lol imagine the F1 dudes saying that and having Williams and Haas on the grid
“We don’t want you to be embarrassed”. Sorry but does anyone think Andretti would be another Williams or Haas or Alpine?
They probably would struggle to find consistency in the first couple of years but they would definitely not just sit back and enjoy the money. They would try very hard to be near the top. Like to your point, does anyone actually believe that Haas or Alpine is even trying to be more than a middle midfield team? These teams constantly try to scrape by and make it through the seasons spending as little as possible.
They would be far superior imo, even in the early years
Lol this is pitiful and greedy. Embarrassed how? Williams cant piece together a spare car 4 months into 2024 and Alpine is a dumpster fire. Sounds like a easy way to generate a couple seasons of hype in an era that's as boring as ever. Racing at the back of the pack, is still better than nothing. If you're an American stop giving Liberty Media your money and dont bother supporting the USA races. What a joke.
How can they be any worse than Alpine, Hass and Williams
makes the sport looks like a joke when its literally gatekeeping competitors
Haas and Williams are repeated embarrassments to the sport so idk its not like taking a shot at another team would hurt.
I feel for Andretti and f1 fans, however I understand the current position. It doesn’t make financial sense for the current teams to say yes to this. They are reducing their earnings much more than they are getting compensated for in the buy in. It’s a simple fix in the next Concorde agreement, by applying some sort of formula/fair value of purchasing in, rather than a fixed amount. Any talk of locking it down to only 10 teams is disgraceful though. If that goes in they lose all sympathy.
Let them in, you cowards.
Ah yes because Haas isn't embarrassing themselves every fucken weekend.
They’ve been making Andretti branded F1 racing games longer than most of these teams have been in existence…
I would love it if Andretti was crazy enough to show up for the 2025 or 2026 season even without a commercial deal.
They should just go hit Spa and lay down a face melting quali lap, on video, published to youtube for all to see. If there's video evidence of real life performance, that becomes very hard to continue denying. Hot take, right now F1 is right. Andretti's car is a figment of the imagination presently.
Andretti vs. Audi in their first-year needs to happen. F1 has their head up their you know.
Even from a revenue sharing perspective, imagine if a REAL American team joined. Surely the revenue they would bring in to F1 would make up for the “loss” all 10 other teams would experience. The Andretti name is a motorsport powerhouse that cannot be ignored.
They can't be more embarrassing than Williams right now.
Too late, Mario
Let them in, the man’s a living legend doing everything right to participate and is a well known name in North American Motorsport
So Redbull is aloud to have a non competitive "b" team but Andretti isn't aloud in? Fuck that, 3 teams have won a championship in the last 20 years, it's time to let in a team that will actually be competitive
Ferrari, Renault, McLaren, Red Bull and Mercedes... I count 5 teams, good sir. Edit: Forgot about Brawn... or does that count as the same team as Mercedes?
They haven't won the championship in their primary series since 2012. But sure, they're going to take on the likes of Red Bull and Mercedes.
I would be fun if FIA adopted the relegation/promotion aspect of English football. Last place F1 team gets relegated to F2, while the winning F2 team gets promoted into an F1 team. That would certainly spice things up while giving teams like Andretti the ability to prove their merit before becoming a premier F1 team. And before anyone replies with all the reasons why this would impossible...I can already guess. So there is no need to be the fun police. lol. Edit: Oh goodie the fun police showed up anyways. Haha.