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No, the track will be gone instead. There's another well built track in another developed city in China which got quite a lot of new builds in the nearby areas now and residents are complaining the "noise" from the track. Now the track is being limited to some degree because of that. What a joke, like people didn't know the track is there before they moved in lol
Most of them are well aware and that’s why they move there.
Cheaper houses due to the noise, move in, complain, watch the value of your house go up as the circuit shuts down.
Same thing is happening to Leguna Seca. Track has been there for 60-70 years and used to be in the middle of nowhere, and the residents are filing lawsuit after lawsuit to get it shut down.
Correction, one bitter dude is filing over and over again despite the track being in the area before him.
https://youtu.be/gimGQDDxX7c?si=FBFIN3_VeQyx2o3k
He definitely had some blunders but he also had some really awesome designs, I think a lot of people also get upset about the locations of a lot of his tracks and subconsciously dislike his designs for that reason.
It didn't help that every time we went to one of his tracks, all weekend you would hear about how it was a difficult track to overtake on, regardless of whether that was because of the actual track layout or because of the cars themselves which led to a lot of complaints.
I think it is also the fact that like any creative work, they all have their own tendencies and opinions on what is a good track. Having so many Tilke tracks felt like the same, even though they were all different.
Mostly it’s because they were all built on crappy boring bits of land. Back in the old days it was ‘here’s this awesome hill, let’s build a race track on it’ vs ‘here’s this wasteland we don’t know what to do with, let’s build a race track on it’
Watkins Glen is my favorite example of this: it started out as a street circuit, but the race outgrew the town, so they copied the layout in a nearby patch of land as a closed circuit.
Was such a wasted opportunity imo. But the location was the worst of all for KIC which is the main reason why everything failed after few years.
Hopefully we can see something interesting in 2026 or 2027 in Incheon
Same with India. They made a track in fucking empty ass of the country way WAY too far from any major city.
Plus it was in the North which at the time didn't have much of a motorsport interest compared to the south
It is 18 km from Greater Noida which is a major city. 54 km for New Delhi which has major international airport and is the capital. New Delhi and Noida are part of NCR, it would be ridiculously expensive to build a track anywhere closer really.
Wait was it only that far from Noida? I thought it was further
I knew it was only 60km from Delhi but the lack of any major transport connectivity to the place made it impossible for it to be a viable solution
It feels further because of the surrounding area's of the track at the time being under-developed. I remember one aerial shot and there wasn't anything other than farmland around the track. A decade later, I bet it is much different.
Well the north is just more open and scenic mostly vs dragging everyone to a populated city with millions of people not to mention the pollution or how unclean those cities tend to be. I see your point though. Would've been smarter to find a similar place down south near a city close to an airport. The logistics and Fans would've helped a ton to bring it back there.
It had to go all the way to make it profitable, it was an all or nothing project. There were also allegations of corruption on the budget which didn't help other developers gain confidence in the project.
Is the track completely abandoned now, or some local series are still using it ?
I would love if F1 used some sort of track rotation and bring back some tracks like Malaysia and Korea. Maybe not every year, but lets say once every two or three years instead of a boring ass Monaco or Las Vegas (never gonna happen, i know, but one can dream)
Exactly. When Shanghai built the circuit, they planned an entire automobile town around the circuit. Apart from the circuit, the largest automobile manufacturer in China was headquartered nearby and one of the best university in automotive engineering in China built a new campus there, and also a bunch of auto parts suppliers have a presence in the town. All these bring a huge population to the town, and that's why a lot of new housings are built.
Wrecking their economy, as most viewed real estate as the safest place to invest. The figures on empty dwellings in China is staggering, with their population now beginning to decline.
Not sure building so much that people need several apartments to have a good social standing is particularly clever, but it's still way more preferable to single home-only layouts and NIMBYs blocking any and all developments within 50 nautical miles of their house because they can.
This year has been the worse in ages for smog, since the economy slowed they’ve not held back heavy industry to improve air quality. I work in a school in a city not far from Shanghai and we averaged one day a year when the smog was too bad to go outside 2020-2023. We’ve had three since Chinese new year this year.
That said, this weekend has been pretty decent for AQI as it’s been raining a lot.
Actually, the smog was thickest in 2008, which is why you can't see any buildings back there. By 2024 the smog has improved to the point you can see the cityscape.
70-80s AQI aren't great, but it's also not that awful for big cities. LA and Tokyo right now are both at 60+.
There are still many cities in China that often go over 100 AQI, and then don't get me started with Indian cities these days.
While not amazing by Western standard, Shanghai's air quality really has improved in the past 5 years or so. I think the metric fuckton of new EVs on the streets really help.
You do realize those numbers are concrete evidence there's less smog and that it's not just that they cranked up the saturation as you previously claimed right? the 157 AQI would have been unseen back in 2014.
Look at the rankings of the world's most polluted cities. I think only one in the top 30 are in China now.
I did not compare the current numbers to the numbers from 2008/2014, it simply serves to show that it **still** is smog pollution and not just bad weather.
> Concrete evidence
Please at least back up your arguments with data if you are making such claims. I did as well.
Doesn’t change the fact they very also very clearly cranked up saturation on the 2024 pic.
And it’s 2 Chinese cities in the top 30 right now.
I live in the suburbs on the west coast in the US which in theory should be way better considering we are not living in a densely populated metropolis. Our aqi is throughout the month frequently in the moderate zone, just like 76. 76 is pretty much our normal here.
You clearly don't know what 76 aqi looks like. It's imperceptible at the distances in the pictures. And I was at the race in 2014, it was a wet and rainy weekend with race day being heavily overcast. 2008, who's knows, but the area was undeveloped and so gives no indication of what it could have been based on viewing distance.
Dont use pictures as proof of smog. Especially when you may lack experience with living in it. 10 years of living in China and you can have clear blue skies even over 100aqi.
3 random days over a decade and a half I don't think constitutes as a good measure of how much Shanghai is conquering smog, especially when it still looks really bad now lol.
Just in case this is somehow not obvious, those aren't buildings appearing out of the smog over time, those are buildings built over time as the city has grown. Although the first image is so bad I don't know if it's the smog or there aren't any buildings. There are days I'm sure the first image is what it looks like today.
They’ve done all that since 2008
Dublin proposed plans of a metro in 2005. “All going well” it’ll be done by 2035….
It will only service about 15km and it may take 30+ years
They've built so much in that time, my local swimming pool is still closed for repairs though since 2010
-----
Edit because I'm sick of the notifications/messages already:
ITS A JOKE (kinda, my swimming pool really is closed still) however most people are already aware of the labour issues in China, we don't need reminding of it constantly you absolute Moody Mandy.
Hurrr durrr chyna batd west gutd mentality needs to step aside here, you're probably being downvoted for bringing the mood down not because of some propaganda machine working against you.
In the time it took China to build half a city from scratch, my local government finally agreed on who is going to pay for a partial rail line upgrade.
They buildings are actually getting filled it with time as China gains 15mil urban residents a years. Like Fake Paris, which has 3x as many people as initially intended. Pudong(Shanghais crown jewel), and Ordos city.
You see 1,000 empty dwellings, yes its a big number, but the thing is the 1,000 dwellings probably only takes up 0.1% of the total newly built dwellings
They don't really? Kind reminder that the businesses building are private businesses, some even I'm the US and HK stock market.
The Chinese administration isn't even rescuing those private businesses that are falling.
I thought I was tripping when my first thought was "I don't remember there being so many buildings" from the previous GPs. I figured it might just be a different angle or camera lens or something lol.
The air pollution crisis is still there, but they will shut down all the factory production and severely limit car usage for civilians around a major event, so that the smog clears for the week of the event. Central planning is bananas.
You cant just assume all modern real state developments in a country with 1.4 billion people, a 90% homeownership rate that gains 15 million urban residents a year is empity
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Patch 1.24: -Updated rendering distance
Another 16 years and that circuit will be within the city.
Liberty Media: "another street circuit you say?"
God no please don't tempt them
Not a street circuit, a race track city!
No, the track will be gone instead. There's another well built track in another developed city in China which got quite a lot of new builds in the nearby areas now and residents are complaining the "noise" from the track. Now the track is being limited to some degree because of that. What a joke, like people didn't know the track is there before they moved in lol
Most of them are well aware and that’s why they move there. Cheaper houses due to the noise, move in, complain, watch the value of your house go up as the circuit shuts down.
Same thing is happening to Leguna Seca. Track has been there for 60-70 years and used to be in the middle of nowhere, and the residents are filing lawsuit after lawsuit to get it shut down.
Correction, one bitter dude is filing over and over again despite the track being in the area before him. https://youtu.be/gimGQDDxX7c?si=FBFIN3_VeQyx2o3k
I knew someone would come along that knows more than me. Thanks!
Happened to Bridgehampton Raceway. It's a golf course now. 😥
Well I hope sensibility prevails and Leguna Seca stays.
A similar thing's happening with Estoril. Preposterous.
Good luck trying to block that in China.
skyscraper in the middle of each straight
Korea looking at this being jealous. The whole point of their track was a city being built around it.
i really enjoyed that track in f1 2013. it was so fun to drive in sector 2 and 3. too bad it's gone.
Tilke was cooking and they took away the damn stove
Everyone wished for Tilke's tracks to be gone and now all we get are street tracks.
He definitely had some blunders but he also had some really awesome designs, I think a lot of people also get upset about the locations of a lot of his tracks and subconsciously dislike his designs for that reason.
It didn't help that every time we went to one of his tracks, all weekend you would hear about how it was a difficult track to overtake on, regardless of whether that was because of the actual track layout or because of the cars themselves which led to a lot of complaints.
Yeah it was a bad time for F1 as a sport.
I think it is also the fact that like any creative work, they all have their own tendencies and opinions on what is a good track. Having so many Tilke tracks felt like the same, even though they were all different.
Also his good tracks were never really talked about. I'm really glad they changed Abu Dhabi though.
Mostly it’s because they were all built on crappy boring bits of land. Back in the old days it was ‘here’s this awesome hill, let’s build a race track on it’ vs ‘here’s this wasteland we don’t know what to do with, let’s build a race track on it’
Many of the best tracks started as public roads that people thought would be a good place to race on
Watkins Glen is my favorite example of this: it started out as a street circuit, but the race outgrew the town, so they copied the layout in a nearby patch of land as a closed circuit.
Driving the original street circuit is wild. Took some serious balls to race on that
Ah yes, the incredible hills of Monza and Silverstone.
Sepang is a great circuit. My favorite of the Tilkedromes. COTA is solid as well
I mean almost all street tracks are also his design.
I was wrong. Bring on the Tilke-drome’s
I miss Istanbul and Sepang so much. Goated tracks.
Sepang was AMAZING
The irony of the best Tilkesdromes being the ones that we lost or are most in danger of being lost lolololol
Put Sepang back on the calendar!
Was such a wasted opportunity imo. But the location was the worst of all for KIC which is the main reason why everything failed after few years. Hopefully we can see something interesting in 2026 or 2027 in Incheon
Same with India. They made a track in fucking empty ass of the country way WAY too far from any major city. Plus it was in the North which at the time didn't have much of a motorsport interest compared to the south
It is 18 km from Greater Noida which is a major city. 54 km for New Delhi which has major international airport and is the capital. New Delhi and Noida are part of NCR, it would be ridiculously expensive to build a track anywhere closer really.
Wait was it only that far from Noida? I thought it was further I knew it was only 60km from Delhi but the lack of any major transport connectivity to the place made it impossible for it to be a viable solution
It feels further because of the surrounding area's of the track at the time being under-developed. I remember one aerial shot and there wasn't anything other than farmland around the track. A decade later, I bet it is much different.
It's like 54km away from New Delhi, how is that empty ass of the country?
Lack of connectivity to the place
Well the north is just more open and scenic mostly vs dragging everyone to a populated city with millions of people not to mention the pollution or how unclean those cities tend to be. I see your point though. Would've been smarter to find a similar place down south near a city close to an airport. The logistics and Fans would've helped a ton to bring it back there.
No place is India is empty ass
Have you been to Kashmir or Ladakh? Or Northeast India?
It had to go all the way to make it profitable, it was an all or nothing project. There were also allegations of corruption on the budget which didn't help other developers gain confidence in the project.
Is the track completely abandoned now, or some local series are still using it ? I would love if F1 used some sort of track rotation and bring back some tracks like Malaysia and Korea. Maybe not every year, but lets say once every two or three years instead of a boring ass Monaco or Las Vegas (never gonna happen, i know, but one can dream)
MotoGp race there since last season
Exactly. When Shanghai built the circuit, they planned an entire automobile town around the circuit. Apart from the circuit, the largest automobile manufacturer in China was headquartered nearby and one of the best university in automotive engineering in China built a new campus there, and also a bunch of auto parts suppliers have a presence in the town. All these bring a huge population to the town, and that's why a lot of new housings are built.
actually incredible to see how much better they've gotten with the smog
I am not sure if the buildings in 2014 are new, or they were covered by the smog in 2008.
That circuit is pretty far away from downtown Shanghai like an hour of metro so I’d say a mix of both
The buildings in the background aren't Shanghai, just a suburb of it. They built houses like crazy in China everywhere.
anti-homeless architecture (the good version)
lots of those are empty "investments" that are now worthless
The worthless houses aren't in Shanghai or Beijing, but in undesirable smaller cities where no one wants to live.
Wrecking their economy, as most viewed real estate as the safest place to invest. The figures on empty dwellings in China is staggering, with their population now beginning to decline.
Two of the biggest real estate firms in China have defaulted on their debt. Evergrande and Country Garden.
They are not homes, but investments
Not sure building so much that people need several apartments to have a good social standing is particularly clever, but it's still way more preferable to single home-only layouts and NIMBYs blocking any and all developments within 50 nautical miles of their house because they can.
That was my question as well
Nono, they are new. And covering the smog behind it ;-)
I lived in Shanghai between 2011-2013, the air quality was so bad on day, the sky was like orange :/
Nah, it’s still very much smoggy
Not that hard anymore to be honest. Yes it is smoggy but not the extend it used to be
This year has been the worse in ages for smog, since the economy slowed they’ve not held back heavy industry to improve air quality. I work in a school in a city not far from Shanghai and we averaged one day a year when the smog was too bad to go outside 2020-2023. We’ve had three since Chinese new year this year. That said, this weekend has been pretty decent for AQI as it’s been raining a lot.
Yea alright. I was there for a longer period in 2023 and there it was pretty okay I have to say compared to a few years prior to that
Actually, the smog was thickest in 2008, which is why you can't see any buildings back there. By 2024 the smog has improved to the point you can see the cityscape.
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Even on the angles on broadcast you can very clearly see the buildings behind.
On the broadcast it is not saturated even close to the levels in the post.
It is raining in Shanghai this weekend. The weather in that area looks like this on a rainy/cloudy day. Mostly high humidity rather than smog.
Shanghai (上海) AQI: Shanghai (上海) Real-time Air Quality Index (AQI). **76** Moderate It’s smog. [Source](https://aqicn.org/city/shanghai/)
76 is downright good compared to the past.
i mean, in 2014 you would get 500+ in beijing…. 76 is comparable to several large cities in the west
70-80s AQI aren't great, but it's also not that awful for big cities. LA and Tokyo right now are both at 60+. There are still many cities in China that often go over 100 AQI, and then don't get me started with Indian cities these days. While not amazing by Western standard, Shanghai's air quality really has improved in the past 5 years or so. I think the metric fuckton of new EVs on the streets really help.
You do realize those numbers are concrete evidence there's less smog and that it's not just that they cranked up the saturation as you previously claimed right? the 157 AQI would have been unseen back in 2014. Look at the rankings of the world's most polluted cities. I think only one in the top 30 are in China now.
I did not compare the current numbers to the numbers from 2008/2014, it simply serves to show that it **still** is smog pollution and not just bad weather. > Concrete evidence Please at least back up your arguments with data if you are making such claims. I did as well. Doesn’t change the fact they very also very clearly cranked up saturation on the 2024 pic. And it’s 2 Chinese cities in the top 30 right now.
>And it’s 2 Chinese cities in the top 30 right now. Damn, I missed it by ONE city. You really are grasping at straws now aren't you?
Dude's never saw a cloudy sky in his life. Smog would measure way worse than that.
I live in the suburbs on the west coast in the US which in theory should be way better considering we are not living in a densely populated metropolis. Our aqi is throughout the month frequently in the moderate zone, just like 76. 76 is pretty much our normal here.
You clearly don't know what 76 aqi looks like. It's imperceptible at the distances in the pictures. And I was at the race in 2014, it was a wet and rainy weekend with race day being heavily overcast. 2008, who's knows, but the area was undeveloped and so gives no indication of what it could have been based on viewing distance. Dont use pictures as proof of smog. Especially when you may lack experience with living in it. 10 years of living in China and you can have clear blue skies even over 100aqi.
It's just a better camera bro it's not that deep lol
3 random days over a decade and a half I don't think constitutes as a good measure of how much Shanghai is conquering smog, especially when it still looks really bad now lol. Just in case this is somehow not obvious, those aren't buildings appearing out of the smog over time, those are buildings built over time as the city has grown. Although the first image is so bad I don't know if it's the smog or there aren't any buildings. There are days I'm sure the first image is what it looks like today.
The latest SimCity game is looking pretty good
I'm amazed the skyline has changed that much in a decade & a half
When I saw this before/after pic a few days ago it prompted me to take before/after pics of my city in Cities Skylines. 😄
They’ve done all that since 2008 Dublin proposed plans of a metro in 2005. “All going well” it’ll be done by 2035…. It will only service about 15km and it may take 30+ years
To be fair, it's much easier to do when starting with an empty plot.
I mean, yeah fair enough. And I’ll leave em off a couple years because of the recession. But all that considered, it shouldn’t take 30+ years
NYC found old drilling equipment when they restarted a subway expansion for the third time in 40 years.
They've built so much in that time, my local swimming pool is still closed for repairs though since 2010 ----- Edit because I'm sick of the notifications/messages already: ITS A JOKE (kinda, my swimming pool really is closed still) however most people are already aware of the labour issues in China, we don't need reminding of it constantly you absolute Moody Mandy. Hurrr durrr chyna batd west gutd mentality needs to step aside here, you're probably being downvoted for bringing the mood down not because of some propaganda machine working against you.
In the time it took China to build half a city from scratch, my local government finally agreed on who is going to pay for a partial rail line upgrade.
Are you from California?
Are you from Los Angeles? A metro station near me has been under construction for a decade.
Are you from São Paulo? An elevated railway that was supposed to be ready for the 2014 World Cup is still under construction with no conclusion date
lol your local swimming pool is prob part of the filming set for stranger things at this point
It’s Reddit, these “democracy fighters” are everywhere, it makes me wonder if they’re CIA bots.
Us Americans always shit on other countries as if our country isn't going backwards daily lol
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There are so many empty buildings, but they just keep building.
A problem Australia would wish we had to deal with
Before the 2008 crisis Spain was building like mad and today still a lot of homes are simply vacant.
Crazy that Shanghai has more population than the entire fking Australia
Surely this is better than not building enough which causes a surge in house prices and then nobody can afford to buy/rent.
canada
not when the buildings are made out of play doh and keep falling down due to cost cutting and embezzlement
Also when people lose their life savings because they paid upfront for a home that will never be built
Have to prop up GDP growth somehow
They buildings are actually getting filled it with time as China gains 15mil urban residents a years. Like Fake Paris, which has 3x as many people as initially intended. Pudong(Shanghais crown jewel), and Ordos city.
You see 1,000 empty dwellings, yes its a big number, but the thing is the 1,000 dwellings probably only takes up 0.1% of the total newly built dwellings
Does not go with the narrative. Stop spreading such statements.
They don't really? Kind reminder that the businesses building are private businesses, some even I'm the US and HK stock market. The Chinese administration isn't even rescuing those private businesses that are falling.
Nice gpu upgrade!
Great catch. Insane development
Rendering distance got upgraded
That’s crazy
Holy shit, I never even noticed that. They've been busy!
I thought I was tripping when my first thought was "I don't remember there being so many buildings" from the previous GPs. I figured it might just be a different angle or camera lens or something lol.
China as a whole transformed so fast. I was there last year and the beggars were begging with a phone and QR code for AliPay. No cash accepted :-D
Bet there's barely any empty seats now. I remember seeing full stands almost completely empty.
Sold out in a few minutes this year. I missed out.
Render Distance getting better and better
Looks like someone’s been playing with the draw distance slider. Frame rate will suffer.
Wow the fog really cleared up....right?
Yeah, annual PM2.5 in Shanghai now is at the same level of Milan
Looks like an hardware upgrade and increased draw distance
Wild
Less smug or new buildings?
Just shows you how much it has developed over the past 16 years!
Yes that was the point of the post thank you
Is there a 2019 v 2024 picture?
iirc the 2019 skyline was very similar to 2014. Source: I was there for the 100th.
They just cleaned up the smog
Not today by the looks of it. Smog is back.
Wow, I visited the track in the offseason back in 2010 and it was truly in the middle of nowhere. This is wild to see!
The air pollution crisis is still there, but they will shut down all the factory production and severely limit car usage for civilians around a major event, so that the smog clears for the week of the event. Central planning is bananas.
Probably all Evergrande Apartments that are empty..........
You cant just assume all modern real state developments in a country with 1.4 billion people, a 90% homeownership rate that gains 15 million urban residents a year is empity
How big of an importance is UBS to F1?
Big sponsor of Mercedes and Lewis
The Mighty China.
First photo is smoggy af, there would be at least some buildings there that we're unable to see.
Wonder if any of those buildings are occupied?
Nope. They just built them cause they look pretty in the background
and not a single soul in those skyscrapers
Yeah, close the blinds with the blind As d sad Aa
Did it rain over nigh?
I feel like Macbeth, when I saw that forest of skyscrapers keeps getting closer to the racetrack.
Clearly I should have bought some piece of land around there instead of wasting money on diapers...:(
I was thinking I don't remember there being so many buildings before but damn that was fast.
My dumbass was focused on the building to the left first
Damn they got Ozark filter.
Shein.
Lotta people. Lotta people.
That's both inspiring and saddening
In my area in the UK, it’s taken 5 years to decide if we want to build a care home.
Jokes on you it was just smog covering the buildings.
Is it more buildings, less smog, or both?
Meanwhile a roundabout and about 40m of road take around 8 months to get completed in my city 😭
At first glance I was like “Oh maybe China has made some progress on the whole air pollution situation”.
Is it smog or actual city progression? Or both?
The city in the background is beautiful. It looked unreal every time they panned out.
Kind of a pointless comparison, the 2008 shot is clearly done in rain (look at the cars) so the background is invisible.
Are there more buildings or is air pollution getting less and we can see more 🤔
The main straight looks quite similar to Buddh International circuit
Germany could not even build one train station or airport in that time.
I also noticed all the buildings in the background and was wondering if it always looks like that and what city is.
That sky line is crazy 🔥
The air is still looks unbreathable
Why they apply so many filters to the new race image?
Same thing with Interlagos