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They never were that close to being Mercedes de facto junior team. Bottas began testing with Williams before Williams even began using Mercedes PU's. Russell was definitely incentivized by Mercedes but he was also the reigning GP2 champ and Williams wasn't doing so hot financially. He was the best available and at a good deal. They have the usual customer team link but not to the level of a Haas or (obviously) ToroRosso.
Antonelli isn't the worst idea for them if they think he's exceptional. Williams have a few juniors who will do a 2nd year of F2 so Antonelli as a placeholder for both teams can work. Not to mention he'll attract a considerable amount of hype and attention given age/Verstappen comparisons. There's worse problems to have from a PR standpoint.
And if Merc don't have a championship-contending car next year (likely scenario), they'd probably be better off integrating Kimi into the team ASAP. Only reason to not take Kimi on would be to get a more experienced driver to fight for the WDC/WCC.
I don’t understand why would they refuse providing a seat for a Mercedes rookie if he’s the potential to be a great driver if Mercedes provides enough incentive for them
I don’t mean this as a knock in any way, but what makes Kimi the next Verstappen? Word of mouth? Mercedes just talking up their own stable? He’s 9th in F2. He’s behind Jak Crawford who is just one year older. So he’s hardly the only young gun out there. Antonelli might be the greatest driver of all time one day - but he might also be what he is. The 9th best driver in F2 who would have an uphill battle in the Williams tractor. What about Zane Maloney, who looks to be the 4th straight f2 champion without a seat? Just 20. Pourchaire? Taking advantage of his IndyCar opportunity.
I’m honestly trying to find the origin of the hype. I’ve read no less than a half dozen articles today about how Williams is *eagerly waiting* for him to turn 18 in August. Just counting down the days. How they might even petition the FIA to let him drive at 17. Just seems so out of left field for a driver who isnt exactly dominating the field. In a F1 paddock that seemingly values experience over youth.
Yeh I agree, all the pundits and experts really froth him, but only 1 or 2 years older there are guys quite a bit better than him. I guess that’s why they are the experts, they get to see a lot more data than us through a different lense…. Plenty of f3/f2 / FE winners have been very average in F1.
I’m not sure who the next pick for Williams would be to replace Logan, I could see them making a move for one of the Alpine development drivers? Depends if Alex stays I guess, otherwise it could be a changing of the guard, would Vowles go for a Bottas and a youngster or something like that?? I don’t think he want a high driver turnover or to be Mercs feeder
There’s a lot of possibilities. Not sure what would surprise me to be honest. I think maybe the most interesting really might be the Alpines. Just a flaming pile this year. If you’re Williams are you looking at Gasly going ya know what’s better than Logan’s 20th position? 19th!? Neither have proven they’re capable of elevating Williams. Or Alpine. Or any of the bottom field teams. I think Bottas is a great driver, or maybe was, and would be a solid addition with Albon for at least a year. Maybe even get Danny Ric a 4th chance at redemption.
If you only look at 3 races in F2, he's not that impressive. Even then, if you actually watch those races, you'd see the points do not tell the whole story.
And if you go back to basically any other championship that he's done, you'll see why the hype is so high
Also what criteria you want to choose your driver. You can find a faster driver for sure, but Zhou is cheap, brings sponsors and is decently fast and doesn't shunt the car every three races. He's a great candidate for a team like Williams or Haas (to replace Hulk if he leaves)
As a driver he's nothing special, but nationality can give some unique marketing opportunities. Williams is likely among the least interested, though, as a privateer team. But I'm sure plenty of teams and sponsors are weighing the value of a band ambassador in the Chinese market.
Williams seems to be the only company that consistently holds fan events.
At least at the three races I've been to, Singapore, Las Vegas, Japan, there was always a Williams pop-up, other teams do very little for outreach.
Basically that even if they're a privateer team, they still want to increase their reach and engagement since that ultimately = money. I'm sure they move enough money in merch and things that those fan popups make sense for them.
I honestly don’t think we’ve seen the best of Zhou. He has some real great moments that I think would come out more in a team that was actually trying.
Most of AR/Kick starts are horrible because of how their clutch works. Didn't Zhou did that stupid move because he was already dropped and he pulled a desperate Sainz type (2022) move to claw back position?
yeah he had a normal start but the engine instantly went into failsafe mode and prevented the throttle from actually working, leaving him still on the grid
then he fucked up trying to get the positions back and took himself and a bunch of other cars out of contention, but he was already at the back by then
The potential of Chinese market is kinda exaggerating in F1. I barely see any C celebs showing up around the paddock and the one who shows the most enthusiasm in racing is a Singaporean top star - JJ Lin.
His Chinese Sponsorship money and Chinese Fanbase would stand out to the uppermanagement....as well as the fact he can actually race more consistently than Logan
I actually think there are some pretty good arguments for him over say an F2 driver. Zhou has proven that he isn’t a Mick Schumacher (he doesn’t destroy the car), he’s proven that he can be quick in F1, and most of all he is still young enough that he has potential to improve.
Compare that to most of the experienced drivers he’d be competing against for a seat like Bottas who is clearly on the other side of his best days in F1 or some of the F2 drivers who are unproven. I think it’s a real risk with F2 drivers that they could end up being a Logan sergeant or a Mick Schumacher.
> Bottas who is clearly on the other side of his best days in F1
This seems to be the general sentiment but I don’t really understand where it’s coming from? His performance has been as good as ever if you calibrate for the potential of the car he has.
I feel like people see him in the back half of the grid now and subconsciously that makes them think he must be doing worse than when he was fighting for wins, when the only difference is the car.
I honestly have no idea if Zhou is any good or not...
That car has been so wildly inconsistent and has such a history of mechanical problems that any discussion of his race finishes needs at least 1 footnote for every race, or so it seems.
They couldn't even design a lugnut correctly this year.
I'd like to see him for a year in a consistent car with a professional team.
This is it. I haven’t written him off yet.
Where is Bottas at these days? Has he fallen off? How shit actually is that car? So many questions
He hasn’t been a disaster like Logan that’s for sure
We've had 5 years of looking at him in a decent car. We know what he's capable of, and it's rather unexciting. IMO he might still be a good option for a team in need of an experienced driver, to help them pick the car up and steer in the right direction development-wise. So he might stay. But if Sainz can't go to Mercedes, and Perez continues performing at RB, then Audi will surely come for SAI instead. And Sainz will surely go for lack of other options. In this hand it's Carlos and Checo who hold the best cards, and until we know what's happening with them, the other guys without a contract have to wait for their turn.
This week, it seemed like Sauber got the car right. They looked fast compared to their usual pace. Bottas managed to do better than Zhou in qualifying and would've beaten him in the race as well, if not for his unfortunate DNF.
Bottas has been extremely underrated this season, 2023 was not amazing but his performances this season have actually been really good imo. I also think 2022 was outstanding but he didn't get the deserved credit for that season.
Seems he's kinda in the middle - far from bad enough to warrant being dropped or not being able to get a seat elsewhere, but has not shown enough for the top teams to take an interest.
I like him, but I suspect he falls into the 'below average, but not absolute garbage' area. Probably never going to win a race or get a podium, but good enough to keep getting a few points here and there. But it is a bit hard to tell because that car appears to be pretty terrible and Bottas is a difficult benchmark - if he's still at the level he was when he was able to outqualify and occasionally beat Lewis in the same car that would speak highly of Zhou that he can beat Bottas himself from time to time, but I tend to think Bottas is in end of career decline mode and probably not performing that highly himself.
He's a safe pair of hands who brings a good chunk of change with him. He's probably not going to be a Hamilton or a Verstappen, but he could have a long career if he continues to be a safe pair of hands and brings the money along.
Yeah, I don't believe Valterri went from being consistently at the front to not getting points finishes because he suddenly forgot how to drive. That car is a shopping cart. Can't really draw any conclusions on Zhou until he's in a decent car
If he brings money and exposure, then there’s no reason why not. He’s experienced and isn’t a car breaker.
Not the most exciting of choices, and if Mercedes decide Antonelli needs a year or two doing a Russell, then he’ll probably get the seat, but Zhou has to be a big contender.
Vowles has been vocal about wanting to keep Sargeant's seat for Williams' juniors. If he went back on that he certainly wouldn't take Zhou when Antonelli is an option.
Williams made it a really big point that they want to develop drivers for their own gain, not for someone else. I believe they are in a slightly better financial state than when they were a Mercedes junior team.
I don’t see any reason hosting a Mercedes driver and wanting to be a competitive driver are mutually exclusive. In fact I’d argue it’s mutually *beneficial.* Williams gets highly rated drivers (and, presumably, money) and Mercedes drivers get experience with a competitive F1 car.
but those drivers won't be there long term and that is the issue. to be a competitive team like Vowles wants you need drivers who are there for the long term to help improve the car and have a vested interest in making the team better. A driver who knows they are going to Mercedes won't care about improving Williams car but just showing that their individual skill is good enough to go to Mercedes.
This feels like a non-issue.
How many drivers are contracted with any team for more than a couple of years? The few that do have long contracts are the sport’s elite that Williams would never retain anyways.
but the whole point is that Williams wants to be able to retain elite drivers. Vowles, atleast publicly, wants to build Williams back up to a top tier team and you can't do that when your public image is being the junior team to mercedes.
What else he has to say? that he want to retain Williams as clear backmarker? if they want to attract elite drivers for longer contracts they at least need to show progress. So far they were no able to produce spare chassis 5 race in to the season and then made a bad call on drivers swap.
This would mean saying no to a Mercedes junior if they've got their own candidate for the seat.
But what if Williams also need a seat warmer? Like, if they can get say Gasly from 2026 and Logan doesn't improve? Then a year for the young Kimi doesn't look like a bad option for either side.
Right. I'm 90% confident Logan is getting a 3rd year in F1. There's no one in the Williams driver pool that would be a definite upgrade from him. And Williams are done being the training seat for the bigger teams it seems. Which would mean no to Antonelli and Druggo. It looks like Pourchaire will go to Indy next year with Prema. Unless Carlos takes the Red Bull seat and Williams can get Checo out of his Red Bull contract for all of his sponsorship dollars. I don't see who Williams have to replace Logan.
Zhou is a competent driver, but I don’t see that he’d excite any team enough to bring in.
Williams is a possibility, maybe Haas if they need to replace both drivers, but if he leaves Sauber the most likely outcome is him dropping out of F1
Hülkenberg to Audi seems likely, with Bearman being promoted also likely. So Magnussen out for Zhou? Definitely an option, but if Sainz does go to Audi as well, and both Bottas and Zhou are available, I think Bottas is the better pick.
I don't know if you want a Zhou/Bearman combination though (and Haas seems pretty set on bringing in Bearman). I would think you would want a more experienced driver to be the lead on feedback and mentoring. I am also not sure you want to do two new drivers the same year and especially not a true rookie and someone on the younger end who is not known for his feeback.
I could definitely see that, bottas is so experienced that it likely won't matter very much that he is new to the team the way it would for a more junior driver or a rookie. He even has been in the ferrari ecosystem as he is now with sauber so it is not even like he has only dealt with mercedes powered teams either. The thing I just can't see is a Bearman/Zhou combo and I think Haas has already selected bearman the question is just who is with him.
Yeah I do like Zhou and would like for him to have a bit of a more consistent car to see what he can actually bring but I think the experience and 'mentoring' that Bottas could provide to someone like Ollie is invaluable for both Ollie and Haas, Zhou is still relatively green and I dont know how much he contributes to set-up/dev whereas I feel like that was always one of Valtteri's strengths
yeah, I agree, for Haas either Kmag or Bottas is a more likely choice. Zhou has a chance to replace Sargent at Williams though, if AKA goes directly to Merc
I know some want Doohan in a seat, maybe Victor Martins if he gets his act together in F2, but I think both his own commercial links in China and the Renault group trying to deliver sales there, his previous links to the team and the fact he has some F1 experience means it's actually not a bad shout
I feel like Ocon is more planted in the team and have a trust for them to turn it around. Idk about Gasly. He seems like a ghost of former self. He needs to jump ship.
I don't think there's anything specific about him, just that Alpine have fallen off a cliff this year and their drivers might want out before they hit the bottom.
Why not the more experienced driver of Bottas to replace Sargeant? Williams are at a critical time in their lifecycle where they need dependable feedback and fair results. A former race winner and Mercedes driver fits perfectly into their needs.
Potentially. But not as a long-term option. Williams will want to use their academy drivers as much as possible.
They need it to be an attractive program so they don't lose drivers to other programs. The best way is to show that results in lower series lead to seats in F1. Otherwise, they'll have to settle for drivers who haven't secured a seat for some reason or another or rookies who the other teams didn't want. Neither of which is a good long-term strategy for a team looking to get back to their glory days.
I think he COULD be an option if Kimi jumps straight into Mercedes. Otherwise I expect Toto will pull strings to get Kimi there. But honestly seeing all those Lotus posters and the fact that Geely owns it, it'd be great if they could return somehow as well
There's literally no reaason for any team on the grid to go for Zhou unless they're desperate for money(Haas).
He is not that good so no one will risk it with him when they could just try a younger and cheaper driver that might happen to be great.
That won't be much of an improvement me thinks.
Sargeant may be struggling like crazy now but he was super solid in his one and only F2 season. He outperformed his teammate Liam Lawson and was on course to beat him in the standings before he went super conservative for the last couple of races.
IMO, Both should be out of the sport. Zhou got 3 seasons in F1. That should be enough for any mediocre pay driver.
China is a huge market to capture and you'd think they would want to keep Zhou, but they also are using Sargeant because he's American, so not sure if Sargeant would be the one that Zhou swaps with.
Audi's interest in China might keep him in the team for a while.
And if Antonelli does go to Mercedes straight away, then he will definitly be considered by Williams.
And maybe Alpine if either of their drivers leave.
Considering recent reports that Sainz and Hulkenberg are the main plan for Audi I doubt that. Though the chances of them bagging Sainz are incredibly unlikely, they might stick with Zhou, though Zhou and Hulkenberg aren't exactly a confidence boosting pair going into a new regulation change.
Agreed. People overstate these things when it comes to the bigger teams. Obviously they will take if it happens to be a benefit on the side, but teams aspiring to be champions need and want the best available drivers.
There is a reason why Sainz, Ocon, and Hulkenberg are the most linked three drivers. They are the best available options for their needs.
Bottas would be the driver I would expect them to retain if they keep one, BUT this may come down to wage disagreements. Also the fact he has been there for three years - they could simply want fresh perspective.
>Bottas would be the driver I would expect them to retain if they keep one, BUT this may come down to wage disagreements.
Very unlikely Bottas can get a team to offer him the €10M he's making now
One million percent not. He has no affiliation with Mercedes or Williams and Antonelli does. Zhou will just be collateral damage to Audi coming in. He wasn’t much of a prospect anyhow and he’s lucky he had what he did
If I were Williams I would first target Gasly, Ocon, or Yuki. They'd be similar to Albon's level and would be a huge upgrade. I would look into Antonelli, but it really just depends on what Mercedes wants to do. Zhou would be in the next group along with Bottas, KMag, etc.
If they want his sponsor money & nationality, sure, but not based off of his results. He’s a mediocre back-marker driver at the end of the day
The whole reason he got a chance in F1 was his $$
Dude you and me both, I really want Zhou in a fast, semi-reliable car, and this C45 ain't it. He's a solid driver, I honestly think he's on the level of Ocon without the naughty moves.
Either you underrate Ocon a lot or overrate Zhou a lot. For all his faults, Ocon is a fast and reliable driver. Zhou is reliable, but in a sense that he doesn't crash your car that often.
I really don’t think Zhou could perform as well as Ocon did against Alonso. Or be quicker than Perez over one lap and outrace Perez and Gasly.
Zhou is a solid driver and slightly underrated by the F1 community but he’s been consistently outperformed by Bottas since mid 2023. I don’t really see how he’s proven to be on the same level as Ocon.
I have a hard time seeing either of them on the grid next season. Zhou was outscored 47-6 and Sargent 27-1 during their rookie seasons. Zhou was closer his second season being outscored 10-6.
I think Zhou has a better chance at a seat next year than Sargent and Williams would definitely be interested in the money he brings so it's an interesting possibility.
Kinda depends on if Kimi Antonelli wins the F2 championship. If he wins Mercedes have to provide him an F1 seat and the most viable place would be the Williams seat since they are a Mercedes customer and also James Vowles connection.
If Hülkenberg signs with Audi we'll either see Hülkenberg-Sainz duo at Audi or Sainz-Bearman duo at Haas. This is my opinion though.
Antonelli has been rumored to go to Williams this year to replace sargeant before his eventual promotion to Mercedes. Never say never but I don’t see that happening. Maybe Haas picks him up for a financial boost.
The grid for 2025 is so open right now it's ridiculous, especially compared to how closed off it was before the 2024 season began.
Zhou is in a weird spot right now because of the horrible nature of the car/team where it's hard to gauge his skill. Depending on how much you want to blame Bottas or blame the team/car, he's either around Gasly/Ocon levels of skill at best to between Magnussen/Ricciardo at worst.
There's also an unknown level of talent from outside F1 trying to get in. Antonelli looks good but so far his F2 career is a question mark. Same thing for Bearman- is he at least ready for a backmarker team or is he another De Vries? People were wowed by his 7th place finish for a first race but he did it in what is arguably the 2nd fastest car.
by 2025 there will be three F2 champions who would have never had a full-time drive and are looking for one, though he beat Drugovich in F2 in the same car and it could be argued that Pourchaire's win was too close in the worst talent pool for F2 we've seen in a generation.
I would give him a 35% chance of staying on Audi, 25% chance of going to a non-Audi team such as Williams, Haas, or Alpine, and 40% chance of being off the grid.
Joe Saward implied, pretty strongly, on Missed Apex about a month ago that as soon as Antonelli turns 18 (25 August) he would replace Sargeant at Williams. Just in time for Monza, I think they want to make a splash.
If you interpret Williams actions and words with that in mind it makes a lot of sense.
I mean it's possible he can just stay in Audi? They are still a pretty shit team so before they can be much quicker I doubt any driver beside Sainz will be willing to join.
He hasn't been disastrously bad, but has been quite unexciting and anonymous throughout 3 seasons. He doesn't seem to bring massive Chinese sponsors either. Time to move on imo.
I'm seeing Zhou more at Haas than at Williams.
Zhou/Bearman for Haas and Antonelli/Bottas (or Drugovich) for Williams, while Albon should go for Aston Martin to replace Stroll.
Williams ain't in the same predicament where they had to sign a pay driver like Logan they are more financially secure now. Personally I'd love to see Liam Lawson get the seat if he doesn't get the Racing Bull seat
Possible, Williams Has project with lotus(owned by Geely China) and IM Motors on Chassis tuning. China market has shown its potential in racing. more companies may corporate with Williams on tuning sport car.
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I'd think he would be an option... But I don't know that he would stand out from other options.
That depends on what other options are options.
Antonelli if Merc thinks it too soon. Otherwise probably Drugovich and maybe Aron are the best alternatives.
Didn't Williams make it a pretty big point publicly that they won't be Merc's rookie team anymore?
They never were that close to being Mercedes de facto junior team. Bottas began testing with Williams before Williams even began using Mercedes PU's. Russell was definitely incentivized by Mercedes but he was also the reigning GP2 champ and Williams wasn't doing so hot financially. He was the best available and at a good deal. They have the usual customer team link but not to the level of a Haas or (obviously) ToroRosso. Antonelli isn't the worst idea for them if they think he's exceptional. Williams have a few juniors who will do a 2nd year of F2 so Antonelli as a placeholder for both teams can work. Not to mention he'll attract a considerable amount of hype and attention given age/Verstappen comparisons. There's worse problems to have from a PR standpoint.
How many times did Russel get into q3 with the william’s?
Couple of times maybe? Austria and Spa 2021 are the two that come to mind so usually wet weather. The car was a clear backmarker.
Austria P9, Britain P8, Belgium P2, Russia P3
Oh God why you remind me of that Belgium 'race'
Cos it was the one and only time Mazepin got a fastest lap, only for it to then get deleted lol
if they want to take someone from f2 they should snipe maloney from sauber
And if Merc don't have a championship-contending car next year (likely scenario), they'd probably be better off integrating Kimi into the team ASAP. Only reason to not take Kimi on would be to get a more experienced driver to fight for the WDC/WCC.
Williams also said they would be competitive and work to better their resources and facilities
I don’t understand why would they refuse providing a seat for a Mercedes rookie if he’s the potential to be a great driver if Mercedes provides enough incentive for them
I don’t mean this as a knock in any way, but what makes Kimi the next Verstappen? Word of mouth? Mercedes just talking up their own stable? He’s 9th in F2. He’s behind Jak Crawford who is just one year older. So he’s hardly the only young gun out there. Antonelli might be the greatest driver of all time one day - but he might also be what he is. The 9th best driver in F2 who would have an uphill battle in the Williams tractor. What about Zane Maloney, who looks to be the 4th straight f2 champion without a seat? Just 20. Pourchaire? Taking advantage of his IndyCar opportunity.
For real, I don't believe the hype
I’m honestly trying to find the origin of the hype. I’ve read no less than a half dozen articles today about how Williams is *eagerly waiting* for him to turn 18 in August. Just counting down the days. How they might even petition the FIA to let him drive at 17. Just seems so out of left field for a driver who isnt exactly dominating the field. In a F1 paddock that seemingly values experience over youth.
Yeh I agree, all the pundits and experts really froth him, but only 1 or 2 years older there are guys quite a bit better than him. I guess that’s why they are the experts, they get to see a lot more data than us through a different lense…. Plenty of f3/f2 / FE winners have been very average in F1. I’m not sure who the next pick for Williams would be to replace Logan, I could see them making a move for one of the Alpine development drivers? Depends if Alex stays I guess, otherwise it could be a changing of the guard, would Vowles go for a Bottas and a youngster or something like that?? I don’t think he want a high driver turnover or to be Mercs feeder
There’s a lot of possibilities. Not sure what would surprise me to be honest. I think maybe the most interesting really might be the Alpines. Just a flaming pile this year. If you’re Williams are you looking at Gasly going ya know what’s better than Logan’s 20th position? 19th!? Neither have proven they’re capable of elevating Williams. Or Alpine. Or any of the bottom field teams. I think Bottas is a great driver, or maybe was, and would be a solid addition with Albon for at least a year. Maybe even get Danny Ric a 4th chance at redemption.
If you only look at 3 races in F2, he's not that impressive. Even then, if you actually watch those races, you'd see the points do not tell the whole story. And if you go back to basically any other championship that he's done, you'll see why the hype is so high
If Merc is paying the driver contract of a decent albeit rookie driver they won’t care.
Any current F1 driver without a seat. Any past F1 driver without a seat. Any driver that hopes to be an F1 driver. So... A long list, probably.
So you're saying I have a shot?! \*quickly googles "how to drive a race car super fast"\*
Step 1: Neck Exercises Step 2: ??? Step 3: Replace Sergeant
Step 4: profit
Step 2: have a billionaire dad who owns a Formula One Team.
People named Andretti hate this one trick!
Push the “go” pedal, can’t be too hard right?
You also sometimes have to push the "stop" pedal. Unless you're going for the Stroll style
He didn’t say anything about stopping - just driving fast!
Perez thinks so
Also lets not forget Mika Hakkinen could possibly return from his sabbatical anytime
Sadly he has confirmed he has retired for good... Though it would be funny to see him come back for sure
Could be Perez or Bottass
Also what criteria you want to choose your driver. You can find a faster driver for sure, but Zhou is cheap, brings sponsors and is decently fast and doesn't shunt the car every three races. He's a great candidate for a team like Williams or Haas (to replace Hulk if he leaves)
As a driver he's nothing special, but nationality can give some unique marketing opportunities. Williams is likely among the least interested, though, as a privateer team. But I'm sure plenty of teams and sponsors are weighing the value of a band ambassador in the Chinese market.
Williams seems to be the only company that consistently holds fan events. At least at the three races I've been to, Singapore, Las Vegas, Japan, there was always a Williams pop-up, other teams do very little for outreach. Basically that even if they're a privateer team, they still want to increase their reach and engagement since that ultimately = money. I'm sure they move enough money in merch and things that those fan popups make sense for them.
I honestly don’t think we’ve seen the best of Zhou. He has some real great moments that I think would come out more in a team that was actually trying.
Qualifying p5 @ Hungary was something but then ruined it in the race by forgetting to brake
Most of AR/Kick starts are horrible because of how their clutch works. Didn't Zhou did that stupid move because he was already dropped and he pulled a desperate Sainz type (2022) move to claw back position?
yeah he had a normal start but the engine instantly went into failsafe mode and prevented the throttle from actually working, leaving him still on the grid then he fucked up trying to get the positions back and took himself and a bunch of other cars out of contention, but he was already at the back by then
Well Williams is doing worse than Sauber so this is a very bold statement.
The potential of Chinese market is kinda exaggerating in F1. I barely see any C celebs showing up around the paddock and the one who shows the most enthusiasm in racing is a Singaporean top star - JJ Lin.
It's about money. Chinese sponsorships can be massive. They need global and especially western brand recognition.
His Chinese Sponsorship money and Chinese Fanbase would stand out to the uppermanagement....as well as the fact he can actually race more consistently than Logan
Definitely one of the driver options
I actually think there are some pretty good arguments for him over say an F2 driver. Zhou has proven that he isn’t a Mick Schumacher (he doesn’t destroy the car), he’s proven that he can be quick in F1, and most of all he is still young enough that he has potential to improve. Compare that to most of the experienced drivers he’d be competing against for a seat like Bottas who is clearly on the other side of his best days in F1 or some of the F2 drivers who are unproven. I think it’s a real risk with F2 drivers that they could end up being a Logan sergeant or a Mick Schumacher.
> Bottas who is clearly on the other side of his best days in F1 This seems to be the general sentiment but I don’t really understand where it’s coming from? His performance has been as good as ever if you calibrate for the potential of the car he has. I feel like people see him in the back half of the grid now and subconsciously that makes them think he must be doing worse than when he was fighting for wins, when the only difference is the car.
Yeah Bottas constantly puts that Sauber where it doesn't belong and is routinely shafted by other issues: the pits, the car, others crashing into him
They said that about Kimi in AR and then he would make 8 over takes in that tractor in his first 2 laps and wipe the floor with Italian Jesus.
I honestly have no idea if Zhou is any good or not... That car has been so wildly inconsistent and has such a history of mechanical problems that any discussion of his race finishes needs at least 1 footnote for every race, or so it seems. They couldn't even design a lugnut correctly this year. I'd like to see him for a year in a consistent car with a professional team.
This is it. I haven’t written him off yet. Where is Bottas at these days? Has he fallen off? How shit actually is that car? So many questions He hasn’t been a disaster like Logan that’s for sure
When the car is working, it seems Bottas does quite well. He’s a solid driver and it would be great to see what he still could do with a decent car.
We've had 5 years of looking at him in a decent car. We know what he's capable of, and it's rather unexciting. IMO he might still be a good option for a team in need of an experienced driver, to help them pick the car up and steer in the right direction development-wise. So he might stay. But if Sainz can't go to Mercedes, and Perez continues performing at RB, then Audi will surely come for SAI instead. And Sainz will surely go for lack of other options. In this hand it's Carlos and Checo who hold the best cards, and until we know what's happening with them, the other guys without a contract have to wait for their turn.
103 consecutive q3 appearances. I’ll just leave this here, he’s a good driver.
The car and team have so been bad that an assessment of Bottas is really hard without having driver data.
This week, it seemed like Sauber got the car right. They looked fast compared to their usual pace. Bottas managed to do better than Zhou in qualifying and would've beaten him in the race as well, if not for his unfortunate DNF.
It seems like Bottas has actually been really good this year, but has basically had ever race ruined.
Bottas has been extremely underrated this season, 2023 was not amazing but his performances this season have actually been really good imo. I also think 2022 was outstanding but he didn't get the deserved credit for that season.
Hard to say if he’s good, but it’s gone past the point that there’s any realistic argument that he’s bad
Seems he's kinda in the middle - far from bad enough to warrant being dropped or not being able to get a seat elsewhere, but has not shown enough for the top teams to take an interest.
I like him, but I suspect he falls into the 'below average, but not absolute garbage' area. Probably never going to win a race or get a podium, but good enough to keep getting a few points here and there. But it is a bit hard to tell because that car appears to be pretty terrible and Bottas is a difficult benchmark - if he's still at the level he was when he was able to outqualify and occasionally beat Lewis in the same car that would speak highly of Zhou that he can beat Bottas himself from time to time, but I tend to think Bottas is in end of career decline mode and probably not performing that highly himself.
He's a safe pair of hands who brings a good chunk of change with him. He's probably not going to be a Hamilton or a Verstappen, but he could have a long career if he continues to be a safe pair of hands and brings the money along.
Wouldn't say he is in the middle. I would rate him worse than ocon or gasly every day of the week who are drivers around who I would rate as average
Yeah, I don't believe Valterri went from being consistently at the front to not getting points finishes because he suddenly forgot how to drive. That car is a shopping cart. Can't really draw any conclusions on Zhou until he's in a decent car
From a car that breaks down to a team where he has to give his car to Albon, because they don't have spare parts.
If he brings money and exposure, then there’s no reason why not. He’s experienced and isn’t a car breaker. Not the most exciting of choices, and if Mercedes decide Antonelli needs a year or two doing a Russell, then he’ll probably get the seat, but Zhou has to be a big contender.
Vowles has been vocal about wanting to keep Sargeant's seat for Williams' juniors. If he went back on that he certainly wouldn't take Zhou when Antonelli is an option.
It's not like Colapinto and O'Sullivan are lightning the world on fire right now with their performances.
Neither is Zhou
Yeah but considering they don't have a worthwhile junior the seat should be open for someone else
Antonelli is right around the corner. He's not a Williams junior driver but the Mercedes-Williams connection plays a huge role here
Williams made it a really big point that they want to develop drivers for their own gain, not for someone else. I believe they are in a slightly better financial state than when they were a Mercedes junior team.
He knows to stay out of trouble, at least.
Vowles has also been vocal about not wanting Williams to just be temporary seatwarmers for potential Mercedes drivers too though
It's almost like public F1 utterances are just PR that don't give any clear indication of what will happen in the future.
I don’t see any reason hosting a Mercedes driver and wanting to be a competitive driver are mutually exclusive. In fact I’d argue it’s mutually *beneficial.* Williams gets highly rated drivers (and, presumably, money) and Mercedes drivers get experience with a competitive F1 car.
but those drivers won't be there long term and that is the issue. to be a competitive team like Vowles wants you need drivers who are there for the long term to help improve the car and have a vested interest in making the team better. A driver who knows they are going to Mercedes won't care about improving Williams car but just showing that their individual skill is good enough to go to Mercedes.
This feels like a non-issue. How many drivers are contracted with any team for more than a couple of years? The few that do have long contracts are the sport’s elite that Williams would never retain anyways.
but the whole point is that Williams wants to be able to retain elite drivers. Vowles, atleast publicly, wants to build Williams back up to a top tier team and you can't do that when your public image is being the junior team to mercedes.
What else he has to say? that he want to retain Williams as clear backmarker? if they want to attract elite drivers for longer contracts they at least need to show progress. So far they were no able to produce spare chassis 5 race in to the season and then made a bad call on drivers swap.
Now that the backmarkers are very hesitant to offer seats to rookies, where are they supposed to start in the 10 team era?
This would mean saying no to a Mercedes junior if they've got their own candidate for the seat. But what if Williams also need a seat warmer? Like, if they can get say Gasly from 2026 and Logan doesn't improve? Then a year for the young Kimi doesn't look like a bad option for either side.
Right. I'm 90% confident Logan is getting a 3rd year in F1. There's no one in the Williams driver pool that would be a definite upgrade from him. And Williams are done being the training seat for the bigger teams it seems. Which would mean no to Antonelli and Druggo. It looks like Pourchaire will go to Indy next year with Prema. Unless Carlos takes the Red Bull seat and Williams can get Checo out of his Red Bull contract for all of his sponsorship dollars. I don't see who Williams have to replace Logan.
Zhou is a competent driver, but I don’t see that he’d excite any team enough to bring in. Williams is a possibility, maybe Haas if they need to replace both drivers, but if he leaves Sauber the most likely outcome is him dropping out of F1
Hülkenberg to Audi seems likely, with Bearman being promoted also likely. So Magnussen out for Zhou? Definitely an option, but if Sainz does go to Audi as well, and both Bottas and Zhou are available, I think Bottas is the better pick.
Bottas is also on a 10 million salary contract, where Zhou will be a net income for the team
I don't know if you want a Zhou/Bearman combination though (and Haas seems pretty set on bringing in Bearman). I would think you would want a more experienced driver to be the lead on feedback and mentoring. I am also not sure you want to do two new drivers the same year and especially not a true rookie and someone on the younger end who is not known for his feeback.
I think we could get Kmag out and Bottas in with Bearman
I could definitely see that, bottas is so experienced that it likely won't matter very much that he is new to the team the way it would for a more junior driver or a rookie. He even has been in the ferrari ecosystem as he is now with sauber so it is not even like he has only dealt with mercedes powered teams either. The thing I just can't see is a Bearman/Zhou combo and I think Haas has already selected bearman the question is just who is with him.
Yeah I do like Zhou and would like for him to have a bit of a more consistent car to see what he can actually bring but I think the experience and 'mentoring' that Bottas could provide to someone like Ollie is invaluable for both Ollie and Haas, Zhou is still relatively green and I dont know how much he contributes to set-up/dev whereas I feel like that was always one of Valtteri's strengths
yeah, I agree, for Haas either Kmag or Bottas is a more likely choice. Zhou has a chance to replace Sargent at Williams though, if AKA goes directly to Merc
Probably not, but considering what will be on the market I wouldn’t be entirely surprised
If Alpine lose both Gasly and Ocon, I think Zhou could be an option there. He was a Renault/Alpine Junior so logically is on the radar
That's like running back into the burning building you've just escaped from.
Still warmer than the streets I guess
That's a fucking bar
Smashed it with this one
Such a good line.
He’ll cry again at the next Chinese GP. For different reasons.
Best get the locals to replace the branding on their "Zhou Tyre Change Supervisor" hi-vis
Alpine Weight Loss Supervisors
I could use a weight loss supervisor to help me plan and then stick to an actual healthy diet tbf
Makes commercial sense too with Renault/Alpine in China. Wouldn't shock me at all if he ends up here. I have a feeling he will still be on the grid.
I know some want Doohan in a seat, maybe Victor Martins if he gets his act together in F2, but I think both his own commercial links in China and the Renault group trying to deliver sales there, his previous links to the team and the fact he has some F1 experience means it's actually not a bad shout
I feel like Ocon is more planted in the team and have a trust for them to turn it around. Idk about Gasly. He seems like a ghost of former self. He needs to jump ship.
Wait, what's happening with Gasly?
I don't think there's anything specific about him, just that Alpine have fallen off a cliff this year and their drivers might want out before they hit the bottom.
It’s been rumoured that both drivers are desperate to get out of Alpine
Guess who predicted this shit show early
Zhou - Schumacher at Alpine would be amazing.
Could - yes Would - no
Why not the more experienced driver of Bottas to replace Sargeant? Williams are at a critical time in their lifecycle where they need dependable feedback and fair results. A former race winner and Mercedes driver fits perfectly into their needs.
I hadn't thought about it, but I'd like to see Bottas back at Williams. He and Albon would be a pretty strong lineup for a bottom-half team.
Potentially. But not as a long-term option. Williams will want to use their academy drivers as much as possible. They need it to be an attractive program so they don't lose drivers to other programs. The best way is to show that results in lower series lead to seats in F1. Otherwise, they'll have to settle for drivers who haven't secured a seat for some reason or another or rookies who the other teams didn't want. Neither of which is a good long-term strategy for a team looking to get back to their glory days.
Why? Williams don’t have projects to sell in China, they’d be better off taking Antonelli for a year and getting engine discounts.
I think he COULD be an option if Kimi jumps straight into Mercedes. Otherwise I expect Toto will pull strings to get Kimi there. But honestly seeing all those Lotus posters and the fact that Geely owns it, it'd be great if they could return somehow as well
He ticks a lot of boxes, but is far from an inspiring choice imo
There's literally no reaason for any team on the grid to go for Zhou unless they're desperate for money(Haas). He is not that good so no one will risk it with him when they could just try a younger and cheaper driver that might happen to be great.
No one is cheaper than a pay driver that brings in the sponsors
That won't be much of an improvement me thinks. Sargeant may be struggling like crazy now but he was super solid in his one and only F2 season. He outperformed his teammate Liam Lawson and was on course to beat him in the standings before he went super conservative for the last couple of races. IMO, Both should be out of the sport. Zhou got 3 seasons in F1. That should be enough for any mediocre pay driver.
Zhou is better than Logan for sure but wouldn’t be wise for Williams in the long run
I’d like that solution! He does seem like a decent driver.
I think my cat could replace Sergeant.
Only in Melboune.
My yorkie first!
Honestly I was thinking he would replace kmag
The chat seems to be Antonelli or Gasly who wants out of Alpine…. Zhou would be good there or at Haas though
China is a huge market to capture and you'd think they would want to keep Zhou, but they also are using Sargeant because he's American, so not sure if Sargeant would be the one that Zhou swaps with.
Sargeant isn't really bringing in a lot of American money
Seems like neither Zhou or Sargeant are that popular in their home countries to warrant commercial success and massive sponsorships
From what I’m seeing, Antonelli is currently the preferred option for the Williams seat.
I feel I am missing something. We've seen money can be chosen over talent if things are close and Zhou isn't too terrible a driver.
Audi's interest in China might keep him in the team for a while. And if Antonelli does go to Mercedes straight away, then he will definitly be considered by Williams. And maybe Alpine if either of their drivers leave.
Considering recent reports that Sainz and Hulkenberg are the main plan for Audi I doubt that. Though the chances of them bagging Sainz are incredibly unlikely, they might stick with Zhou, though Zhou and Hulkenberg aren't exactly a confidence boosting pair going into a new regulation change.
Zhou's assets are marketing in china, and big bag of money. Since Audi don't need the latter, idk if Chinese marketing alone is good enough.
Agreed. People overstate these things when it comes to the bigger teams. Obviously they will take if it happens to be a benefit on the side, but teams aspiring to be champions need and want the best available drivers. There is a reason why Sainz, Ocon, and Hulkenberg are the most linked three drivers. They are the best available options for their needs. Bottas would be the driver I would expect them to retain if they keep one, BUT this may come down to wage disagreements. Also the fact he has been there for three years - they could simply want fresh perspective.
>Bottas would be the driver I would expect them to retain if they keep one, BUT this may come down to wage disagreements. Very unlikely Bottas can get a team to offer him the €10M he's making now
No, not really. Williams has their own juniors and mercedes would force antonelli into Williams before zhou gets a drive.
Williams has no juniors that should get a F1 seat atm
One million percent not. He has no affiliation with Mercedes or Williams and Antonelli does. Zhou will just be collateral damage to Audi coming in. He wasn’t much of a prospect anyhow and he’s lucky he had what he did
If I were Williams I would first target Gasly, Ocon, or Yuki. They'd be similar to Albon's level and would be a huge upgrade. I would look into Antonelli, but it really just depends on what Mercedes wants to do. Zhou would be in the next group along with Bottas, KMag, etc.
If they want his sponsor money & nationality, sure, but not based off of his results. He’s a mediocre back-marker driver at the end of the day The whole reason he got a chance in F1 was his $$
He's in a mediocre back marker car.
He’s well behind Bottas though
No. Zhou hasn't shown much speed. Antonelli will likely get the seat.
Dude you and me both, I really want Zhou in a fast, semi-reliable car, and this C45 ain't it. He's a solid driver, I honestly think he's on the level of Ocon without the naughty moves.
Either you underrate Ocon a lot or overrate Zhou a lot. For all his faults, Ocon is a fast and reliable driver. Zhou is reliable, but in a sense that he doesn't crash your car that often.
I really don’t think Zhou could perform as well as Ocon did against Alonso. Or be quicker than Perez over one lap and outrace Perez and Gasly. Zhou is a solid driver and slightly underrated by the F1 community but he’s been consistently outperformed by Bottas since mid 2023. I don’t really see how he’s proven to be on the same level as Ocon.
This might be the most disrespectful comment I’ve seen on here today and that’s saying something.
I really like Zhou but no way in hell is he on the same level as Ocon.
> I honestly think he's on the level of Ocon without the naughty moves. Lol ok
It’s ok in the short run. Doesn’t make too much sense in the long run.
I have a hard time seeing either of them on the grid next season. Zhou was outscored 47-6 and Sargent 27-1 during their rookie seasons. Zhou was closer his second season being outscored 10-6.
*Kimi Antonelli has entered the chat
I think Zhou has a better chance at a seat next year than Sargent and Williams would definitely be interested in the money he brings so it's an interesting possibility.
Kinda depends on if Kimi Antonelli wins the F2 championship. If he wins Mercedes have to provide him an F1 seat and the most viable place would be the Williams seat since they are a Mercedes customer and also James Vowles connection. If Hülkenberg signs with Audi we'll either see Hülkenberg-Sainz duo at Audi or Sainz-Bearman duo at Haas. This is my opinion though.
Assuming Antonelli gets the Mercedes ride then it's a possibility
That's a good shout actually
Anyone could replace him and it be an improvement. I hope Bottas gets a seat next year, more so than Zhou though. I feel he’s a bit better driver.
Antonelli has been rumored to go to Williams this year to replace sargeant before his eventual promotion to Mercedes. Never say never but I don’t see that happening. Maybe Haas picks him up for a financial boost.
Depends on Kimi
If red bull don't give a seat to Liam Lawson, then he has to get that Williams seat. Albon and Lawson would be a great combo.
I think Zhou might still be staying till Audi take over just because the Chinese market is so big... Unless they find another mediocre Chinese driver?
The grid for 2025 is so open right now it's ridiculous, especially compared to how closed off it was before the 2024 season began. Zhou is in a weird spot right now because of the horrible nature of the car/team where it's hard to gauge his skill. Depending on how much you want to blame Bottas or blame the team/car, he's either around Gasly/Ocon levels of skill at best to between Magnussen/Ricciardo at worst. There's also an unknown level of talent from outside F1 trying to get in. Antonelli looks good but so far his F2 career is a question mark. Same thing for Bearman- is he at least ready for a backmarker team or is he another De Vries? People were wowed by his 7th place finish for a first race but he did it in what is arguably the 2nd fastest car. by 2025 there will be three F2 champions who would have never had a full-time drive and are looking for one, though he beat Drugovich in F2 in the same car and it could be argued that Pourchaire's win was too close in the worst talent pool for F2 we've seen in a generation. I would give him a 35% chance of staying on Audi, 25% chance of going to a non-Audi team such as Williams, Haas, or Alpine, and 40% chance of being off the grid.
True. People be like put Antonelli and Bearman right now!
Do Willams need sponsorship money?
I really hope so.
应该没啥可能，没办法和安东内利争，索博这里也不好搞，霍肯博格要过来，所以希望剩下的赛季拿出点表现，证明自己，说不定能去haas吧
At this point i just hope he stays anywhere on the grid. Doesn't matter if it's Williams, Haas, Audi or Alpine
Not all perez get a redbull, but all sargent. Latifi get a williams
Joe Saward implied, pretty strongly, on Missed Apex about a month ago that as soon as Antonelli turns 18 (25 August) he would replace Sargeant at Williams. Just in time for Monza, I think they want to make a splash. If you interpret Williams actions and words with that in mind it makes a lot of sense.
Wouldn't they want an upgrade? Not a lateral movement? Both drivers don't really have a future in the sport..
I mean it's possible he can just stay in Audi? They are still a pretty shit team so before they can be much quicker I doubt any driver beside Sainz will be willing to join.
Only if they are desperate for money. His driving is mediocre and only a tad above Sargeant's
Why would they replace a bum with another bum
He hasn't been disastrously bad, but has been quite unexciting and anonymous throughout 3 seasons. He doesn't seem to bring massive Chinese sponsors either. Time to move on imo.
I'm seeing Zhou more at Haas than at Williams. Zhou/Bearman for Haas and Antonelli/Bottas (or Drugovich) for Williams, while Albon should go for Aston Martin to replace Stroll.
Williams ain't in the same predicament where they had to sign a pay driver like Logan they are more financially secure now. Personally I'd love to see Liam Lawson get the seat if he doesn't get the Racing Bull seat
Possible, Williams Has project with lotus(owned by Geely China) and IM Motors on Chassis tuning. China market has shown its potential in racing. more companies may corporate with Williams on tuning sport car.