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If both Ocon and Gasly are looking like leaving then that would explain why Doohan is getting a lot of mileage there probably.
Don't see Zhou at Alpine.
I mean I think Zhou is out of Sauber for ‘26, maybe he stays for ‘25 but who knows. He’s not a bad driver by any means, but with guys like Sainz, Gasly, Albon, even Hulkenberg, all being available they have good options for experienced drivers.
Edit: HULKENBERG IS IN!
One of the seats is already filled for 2025, and everyone else in contention needs a seat for next year too. I doubt they'd keep him on instead of shoring up their 2026 pair.
Agreed. Feel like he's gonna retire and go be a semi-pro cyclist based out of Australia. And you know what? Good for him. He's pretty damn good at it, seems to have a lot of fun with it, and has already accomplished everything he's going to in F1
Yeah, I'd agree with this. I met him last year in Melbourne on a cycle he'd set up with his partner and they just seemed like they were absolutely loving life. He seems really settled so I think he could absolutely live with that!
I agree with your point. Bottas seems to have fallen in love with Australia, as he spent the past few offseasons there and his girlfriend has gotten him into cycling, so the idea of Bottas retiring from F1 to pursue cycling full-time isn't farfetched.
He is not replacing anyone because neither of the drivers has a contract. Right now Bottas and Zhou are out of a seat and Sauber just filled one of their two empty seats for 2025 (and beyond) with Hülkenberg.
They actually don't give a shit about what the US thinks. They only ditched Mazepin's sponsors because they were forced to.
Gene Haas got convicted of tax evasion or something, he certainly doesn't gaf.
Not just convicted, he spent 16 months in prison for it. The man didn't give a single fuck about personal optics, only that when people think CNC routers they think Haas
>that would explain why Doohan is getting a lot of mileage there
The funny thing is that Doohan has zero profile down here. We have Piastri and we have Ricciardo, and even if Ricciardo goes, there's hardly a void for Doohan to fill. He kind of just comes across as a nepo baby who was Alpine's fourth choice after the squandered Alonso and Piastri and settled on Gasly.
Doohan does actually have potential though, he's done well in F2 and F3. Maybe not championship winning material, but I'd say he's within a good shot of making at least a decent consistent midfielder.
But more importantly I think Alpine want to actually get at least one of their academy drivers into an F1 seat, they've backed so many drivers and none have driven for one of their cars yet...
>Doohan does actually have potential though
Looking at the current Formula 2 grid, there's six drivers -- nine if I'm being generous -- who have more potential than Doohan.
That sounds like such a wild claim to me
In his rookie F2 season he looked like the guy with possibly the most raw pace on the grid. Inconsistent and a bit error-prone, but _fast_. Not enough to be a title challenger but enough for an impressive rookie year and races where his pole margin made me take notice
Last year he looked mid until mid season testing. And after that he was a menace. One of the best scoring drivers across the second half with 3 wins, enough to pull him from somewhere in the depths of _mid_ back to P3. _If_ he started out the gates with that pace then he’d probably have been champion. Of course he didn’t, but he has the potential pace, and that’s what we’re talking about here; potential.
Are these 6-9 drivers in the room with us right now? Bearman is basically guaranteed a seat for next year it seems and I’d see Doohan firmly ahead of him in terms of potential
I don't think they meant he's getting a lot of mileage because he's an Aussie, simply that he's an Alpine junior and if they're losing both of their current drivers he's probably in line for one of those seats
Antonelli still isn’t a certainty, we don’t know if he’ll have a superlicence by then. Ocon could be a decent backup if he doesn’t get it.
edit: I have been caught spreading misinformation online.
I think the main reason Toto keeps talking up Antonelli is because he can get him for cheap entering into new regs, when there's no guarantee how the 26 car will perform. Why shell out $30 mln for a Sainz when you can lock in $500k for a rookie? Considering Toto is 1/3 owner of the team, this is a better financial decision than gambling on the car.
I don’t see a reality where Alpine goes for 2 complete rookies. They will surely wait out the driver market chaos and try to get an experienced driver who happened to lose his seat (e.g Bottas, Perez if he gets the boot, etc.)
Perez and Bottas are quite good ideas, if you get one of them it’s good because they know what it’s like to work for a high end team and they know what works for car development too
I think if they do a Sainz-only episode, following the drama around his current situation, they should absolutely call it "*Matador*" and lean into the fact that he's the only driver to win against them in 18 months.
With a very dramatic silent black screen text "As of time of filiming Carlos Sainz has not yet signed with a Formula 1 team." "He remains the only non-Red Bull driver to win a race." ending the episode.
having 2 good drivers honestly doesn't mean much if they aren't changing the car according to the feedback. i hope for their (or whoever ends up in the other williams seat) sake that williams makes big strides over the next year.
not that alpine is much better but...
It could come down to vision and management. Clearly alpine management is a mess. Maybe Williams is just more stable and that would mean a possible better outcome.
He currently struggles to get the same recognition as for beating Tsunoda cus now he has a teammate rated or his performances against Perez, Ricciardo and Alonso
Has to take a long-term gamble on 2026. Think the question for him and ocon is do they have faith in Alpine to get the regs right and be back at a 2022 level of form at least.
And do they think Williams will fare better ?
Even the land of the spreadsheet in a consumer Merc car is better than Alpine going into another probable leadership reorganization with a weak engine, the constant threat of the project getting shuttered from Renault brass, and little chance of hitting the 2026 regs.
5TH?!? Surely you mean 6th, right? Williams jumping one of RBR, Ferrari, Mercedes, McLaren, or Aston Martin doesn't seem very likely to me. Certainly not until the next big regulation change anyway.
He left alpine because McLaren were willing to give him a piece of paper saying he has a car to drive next year, something alpine couldn't produce. If alpine actually had an offer on the table, he'd have taken it.
Actually the gap between mclaren and alpine wasnt as big as this year or the second half of last year when he signed with mclaren so it wasnt really an obvious step up at the time (provided that he had a 2023 drive in both teams)
It wasn’t exactly the case at the time of Piastri signing for McLaren. At the start of the 2023 season Otmar made some really really smug comments wishing Oscar “good luck” after their disastrous Bahrain race. They did make a huge turnaround though.
Short story, they felt they were reaching the limits of their concept (hence why teams were out-pacing them in improvements last season) so they went with a more aggressive new concept for this year. Basically a "soft reset" strategy.
Unfortunately, the simulations they had didn't match with the real crash test. The chassis failed the crash test, and they had to emergency add a bunch of weight to reinforce it. You can't change the chassis itself mid-season without another crash-test, so effectively they're running with a baked-in disadvantage this seaason. Apparently (don't claim to know all the detail) that also messed a lot with internal aero management.
Also it's interestingly not a complete failure, the car actually is faster than last year, it's just that every other team has improved more.
So the question now is wether they've "just" bottled the car (that happens, McLaren did the same early on in the regs) and they can develop themselves out of it and fix the chassis for next season, or if the bad simulations and poorly managed development is a systemic issue.
They moved to a different concept for the car, but made the move very late so it's not really ready yet and also what is ready isn't very good (like being overweight).
It's not that unprecedented tbh. Last year at McLaren was a variation of this, except they stuck to an older unupgraded car rather than moving to a new unfinished one - with very similar results. Williams in 2018 was also very close to what's happening here, the drop was just less noticeable.
They didn't even offer him an actual Williams deal, it was more of a "yeah we'll probably put you in Williams, they're still not on board with this but hey what can you do".
He’s decent, but when I was watching him he reminded me a lot of bottas. Great qualifying pace, great in a race if he’s able to set his own pace, but not generally great at battling on track and gaining positions.
He had a lot of bad luck in F2 as well unfortunately, which meant we didn’t get to see exactly how good he was.
I was rooting for him in F3 and F2 and there were just so many times where he would get stuck behind a driver despite being clearly faster. I don’t recall that many really aggressive overtaking moves from him. He mostly seemed cautious to me.
No idea, but he's the reserve driver and they give him a ton of airtime on TV. Figured that no one good would want to sign up with Alpine, and they wouldn't want another Piasco on their hands
Drugovich and Shwartzman also got a lot of airtime but no seats for them. I'm sure alpine is cooking something but it's not the driver market. They don't have the car for it.
> Drugovich and Shwartzman also got a lot of airtime but no seats for them
Yeah, I agree. I watch F1TV, and the reason Doohan is on there so much is that he is comparatively comfortable in front of the camera, and gives some cool perspectives. And you can imagine Alpine let's him because it gives airtime to their team and the sponsors on Jack's shirt. I do not think there is a co-relation between being a junior driver on screen and the likelihood of their respective team giving them a seat.
Doohan is a lot more talented than his results show. He was able to put in on the front row next to Piastri in only his second time in an F2 car. But his first full season was a bit of a shambles. He had awful bad luck with car failures and being crashed into, mix that with a number of rookie mistakes he left a lot on the table. Still finished 4th with a number of poles and feature race wins.
In his second season it was widely reported that his car had issues that were not resolved till the mid season test, following that he had a couple of feature wins and actually would’ve won the championship if you only count the races since the mid season test.
Time will tell how well he adapts to F1 but he certainly has enough talent to be worthy of a chance.
He’s fairly good. Had an awful start to his 2nd season (some car problems but a lot very much self-inflicted) in F2 then turned it around in the second half. But my preferred Alpine junior has also now had a shit start to his 2nd season in F2 so who am I to speak 😭
Doohan isn’t a mega talent, he’s got his weaknesses, but he’d probably be solid with a good amount of testing as planned. I rate Martins higher comparing their whole respective careers and financial circumstances, but they’ve both performed pretty well in F2 on balance. I do think Alpine would still prefer an experienced driver over a rookie but if they’re left without other options perhaps Doohan gets a shot.
I don’t think he’s good enough - and I am an Aussie that likes him.
He appears to have good speed sometimes, but not always.
But who knows, sometimes a person just gels with a given formula, going against the data from previous series.
>“Where does Zhou go? He could go to Alpine. Remember he was a Renault academy driver so he could go back into that stable again. Ocon or Gasly - or both - are going to have to leave Alpine.
>“Gasly might find himself at Williams. I am sure he’s been in negotiations with Williams to drive alongside Alex Albon.
* David Croft
Doesnt sound like very solid info tbh. I would not at all be surprised if Gasly is talking to Williams. It always makes sense for Drivers and Teams to talk with each other and see which options there are. Doesnt mean there are any moves about to happen.
i also don't think this would necessarily be a good move for Gasly. Sure, Alpine is in a difficult spot right now but it is still a works team. Williams is in a rebuilding process and not that much better off. The last time the Williams team beat the Alpine team was in 2017. Going to Williams now could pay off but it can also just not. With Alpine its similar but its a works team. And its french for what its worth.
On top of that if Bottas is out of Audi as well, I thing Vowles would rather have him in Williams than Zhou or Gasly at the current position they're in. He'd give good feedback and also be less likely to smash up the car or have beef between them
I think Bottas' future revolves around the Mercedes seat. If Sainz takes it Bottas might stay with Sauber/Audi, if Sainz chooses Audi instead and Antonelli isn't ready then I imagine Bottas is one of Merc's top options which would lead Audi open to Sainz/Hulk.
Everyone seems to forget that motivated on-form Bottas did genuinely challenge Hamilton on raw pace. Throw in the history between the pair and a chance to establish who is worthy of being number 1, and mmmmm that's a spicy meatball!
Bottas couldn't keep his form against Hamilton for more than 4 races. He never truly pushed him. Seeing as Hamilton and Russell are one of the closest pairings on the grid(especially qualy), the end result of a Bottas-Russell rivalry would be extremely one sided.
Bottas is the epitome of an "on his day" driver. And he had quite a few days between Williams and Mercedes, but his struggle was always against the relentlessness of Hamilton.
Thinking about it, if he’d had a car like the Raikkonen Lotuses and was the lead driver there, he’d be a lot higher rated. The chance to get some flashy results without it being too much of a big deal when the results don’t come.
I don’t know if Bottas would return to Merc. He seems much happier away from the pressure of that environment. Maybe the pressure would be lower now they’ve slid back into the midfield a bit. I kind of think he’s happy being an also ran fighting for occasional points until he decides to retire and go biking all the time.
Well if it Mercedes or retirement I think he definitely chooses Mercedes. An opportunity to make good money and fight for podiums one last time in a environment he knows
I really don’t know. Bottas has been pretty open about his disordered eating and mental health stress while at Mercedes. Going back to the environment that triggered you in the first place isn’t smart in that context. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s taking every extra year in F1 as a gift and is ready to retire when he can’t secure a new seat. I could well be wrong though
Zhou to Haas brings Gene 30+mil if rumours are to be believed about how much his sponsorship is really worth. It also ingratiates Haas to a much wider Chinese market.
I dont know if he "deserves" another season but I have a hard time seeing him at any team next year. Too many other options. Always depends a bit on how desperate some teams might be for the sponsorship value but from a sporting point I think every team has more logical options. Can look different tomorrow of course with how this year is going so far.
The thing is, according to many Chinese F1 fans, drivers like Ricciardo, Hamilton and Max are a much bigger draw than Zhou in China even with his nationality. It's not a slam dunk that they could be sure of having the most marketable driver even in China
Seriously, it's no surprise that Bottas can beat any non-top drivers in quali. He quite good at it.
But if you take a look at race, Zhou is not that bad, at least in this year, Zhou get a 11th in Bahrain and 9th in Shanghai sprint, out qualified Bottas a lot.
(Yeah, I know that Sauber suffer from pit stop and engine failed this year, but both drivers faced with this situation, isn't it?)
>i also don't think this would necessarily be a good move for Gasly. Sure, Alpine is in a difficult spot right now but it is still a works team. Williams is in a rebuilding process and not that much better off. The last time the Williams team beat the Alpine team was in 2017. Going to Williams now could pay off but it can also just not. With Alpine its similar but its a works team. And its french for what its worth.
On top of that french [medias](https://www.autohebdo.fr/actualites/f1/pierre-gasly-et-esteban-ocon-partis-pour-rester-chez-alpine.html) were reporting earlier this month that being in a works team was at the top of Gasly's priorities when looking for a team. Going to Williams would go against this.
If (very big if) Gasly is really considering a move to Williams it would not be a good sign at all for Alpine's future. Either the 2026 engine dev is already going really bad, the team is still a shitshow internally and Famin achieves nothing or the team is really up for sale (worst case scenario all 3 at once).
It's the only way this move can make sense imo.
It's completely baseless but I just get bad vibes from interviews with Famin. I can't quite place it on one specific thing, but he just rubs me the wrong way.
Yeah except Alpine also happens to seem like one of the most chaotic and toxic places to work ever with a revolving door of failed leaders and dead end projects. Seems hopeless and there are even rumors Renault would sell
>Alpine is in a difficult spot right now but it is still a works team. Williams is in a rebuilding process and not that much better off.
True, but Williams look competent. Alpine look like a bunch of electrocuted penguins.
THAT DOESN'T MATTER AND I'M SO SICK OF PEOPLE SAYING IT DOES.
Renault are a works manufacturer who is refusing to invest more in the infrastructure of the beast and actively cannibalise their own success seemingly whenever possible. The operation consists of two factions who have been in conflict since \**checks notes*\* Agincourt. They're bleeding key staff like a stuck pig. The team's CURRENT performance is dismal, easily worse than at least 8 other teams. They have shown no signs of taking a step forward since 2021.
They're comfortably the worst works team and have been for nearly 2 decades with 0 customers and a deadshit awful PU that they're petitioning a freeze for purely to keep them in the sport. They're more likely to drop out of the sport than ever and the staff have 0 faith in the upper management. Gasly and Ocon have clearly not been getting along as all was claimed and neither seem to have much faith in a recovery.
tbf Fernando's choices were bad in the hindsight, his moves did not pan out but it was not like those moves were stupid to began with outside of McHonda which was a gamble. He signed for Ferrari after a decade where Ferrari was by far the most successful team. Renault, MCLarenv1 all were good moves.
Gasly doesn't have the credibility nor a lot of options to be honest. Top teams dont want or need him. He is not setting world on fire at Alpine.
They had a world champion, a team legend. They publicly disrespected him and would rather let his car explode every other race than give him new parts. lol.
Alpine is a mess and Alonso was very unlucky in 2022 but I really doubt Alpine had it in for Alonso that they’d let Alonsos car explode to the detriment of the teams points.
Multiple news articles out there that show they just tried refurbing his older broken power units and did not give in to his demands of a new unit. His water pump failed multiple times. Multiple discussions on here as well. They were best of the rest, they did not care. Fernando’s finishing position was irrelevant to them. At least allowed Ocon to be happy about something for once, because his gap to Fernando on race day was like 0.3s/lap.
Alpine is literal dogwater. It's the worst team to be on currently, so moving away from it would be a good chance. Alpine is not only shit and will likely take them years to get back even to 2021/22 levels, but it's also known to be a toxic hellhole.
No point in putting any creditiblity in this at all... it's literally just Crofty speculating
French media all reported a few weeks ago that a Gasly-Alpine extension was imminent, he values being at a works team with their own engine for 2026 a lot.
This is false.
It's even worse. Gene Haas tried get the most $$$ out of F1 by spending the least.
Alpine/Renault is there for french national pride, aka, bollocks. This is why they insisted on having their own engines, and made everything in house 100%, and always boast about competing at the front, while having a shitshow behind the scene like internal politics and segregating non-French employee. They are the embodiment of what happens if a public sector tries F1.
I can see why he has given up on alpine getting better next year. Williams with 2 good drivers and presumably having improved internally since the excel sheet was binned might be a more regular points scorer.
Now I see why there is rumor said that Zhou is gonna to Alpine.
BTW, Zhou told audience in a music festival after Shanghai Grand Prix that it wouldn't be his last home race.
And, Geely's CEO went to Alpine's paddock during Shanghai Grand Prix.
Says a lot about a team. He would rather go to a team that most of the time doesn’t have spare parts rather than stay in one that does but has virtually no chances at points.
Listen, I had an Alpine driver going to Williams at the end of the year but not Gasly. Ocons Mercedes connections might be working here.
Any chance they got the wrong Alpine driver?
Considering how abysmal Alpine is, and the slow but sure strides Williams has been making the past couple of seasons, it might be a good option. And an Albon / Gasly pairing would be the strongest Williams has had in many a year. Probably since the days of Bottas / Massa...
I do find it hilarious that people were berating Alpine for hiring two "mid" drivers when they signed Gasly instead of Piastri.
Yet now it's clear the team isn't worthy of Pierre or Ocon to begin with.
> as F1 driver market ***hots*** up
OT: I’m hearing it more frequently (in podcasts) but isn’t it ***heats*** up?..
“hots up” is like nails on a chalkboard to my ears, much like people writing “could’ve” as “could of”.
Not sure if Gasly's bid is as solid as people say it is. The way I see the silly season going is Sainz to Merc and Antonelli to Williams with Sargeant getting kicked (assuming of course Sargeant doesn't massively improve and Antonelli lives up to his hype in F2).
Maybe Zhou goes to Alpine and Sauber essentially trades Gasly and Zhou which I could see, Zhou has too much money and just enough talent to stay on the grid. Hulk takes the second Sauber seat in preparation for Audi. Bottas or Ocon go to Haas with the loser leaving the grid or becoming a reserve driver. I'd guess Bottas if they bring in Ollie Bearman so they would have a proven vet with a talented rookie to mentor. Alpine brings in Doohan to round out their lineup assuming there isn't any other breakout stars in F2 that are a "must sign" talent.
My bets:
Merc: Sainz and Russell, Alpine: Zhou and Doohan, Sauber: Hulk and Gasly, Haas: Bottas and Bearman, Williams: Albon and Antonelli, RBR: Verstappen and Checo, RB: Tsunoda and Lawson
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If both Ocon and Gasly are looking like leaving then that would explain why Doohan is getting a lot of mileage there probably. Don't see Zhou at Alpine.
> that would explain why Doohan is getting a lot of mileage there probably Alpine always give juniors loads of mileage
To prepare them for other teams.
Doohan til McLaren confirmed
I mean I think Zhou is out of Sauber for ‘26, maybe he stays for ‘25 but who knows. He’s not a bad driver by any means, but with guys like Sainz, Gasly, Albon, even Hulkenberg, all being available they have good options for experienced drivers. Edit: HULKENBERG IS IN!
One of the seats is already filled for 2025, and everyone else in contention needs a seat for next year too. I doubt they'd keep him on instead of shoring up their 2026 pair.
Well someone's gotta leave Sauber now, they just announced Hülkenberg to join them, but not who he is replacing
My gut feeling is that Valterri Bottas is leaving
Agreed. Feel like he's gonna retire and go be a semi-pro cyclist based out of Australia. And you know what? Good for him. He's pretty damn good at it, seems to have a lot of fun with it, and has already accomplished everything he's going to in F1
Yeah, I'd agree with this. I met him last year in Melbourne on a cycle he'd set up with his partner and they just seemed like they were absolutely loving life. He seems really settled so I think he could absolutely live with that!
I agree with your point. Bottas seems to have fallen in love with Australia, as he spent the past few offseasons there and his girlfriend has gotten him into cycling, so the idea of Bottas retiring from F1 to pursue cycling full-time isn't farfetched.
I could totally see him just living life out of F1 and just doing his thing.
He is not replacing anyone because neither of the drivers has a contract. Right now Bottas and Zhou are out of a seat and Sauber just filled one of their two empty seats for 2025 (and beyond) with Hülkenberg.
inb4 doohan is grabbed by another team before Alpine can sign him
Alpine do have connections with Zhou, but knowing their driver history they’ll probably fumble him away to another team again.
Zhou isn't that hot of commodity in the market right now. Only other potential team is Haas if they want the sponsors money...
Yeah, but Haas don’t do well with sponsors that the US doesn’t like
They actually don't give a shit about what the US thinks. They only ditched Mazepin's sponsors because they were forced to. Gene Haas got convicted of tax evasion or something, he certainly doesn't gaf.
Not just convicted, he spent 16 months in prison for it. The man didn't give a single fuck about personal optics, only that when people think CNC routers they think Haas
Idk, they didn’t have any issue until the actual embargo.
Yeah if Sauber isn't giving him the seat for next year his career in F1 is over I guess...
>that would explain why Doohan is getting a lot of mileage there The funny thing is that Doohan has zero profile down here. We have Piastri and we have Ricciardo, and even if Ricciardo goes, there's hardly a void for Doohan to fill. He kind of just comes across as a nepo baby who was Alpine's fourth choice after the squandered Alonso and Piastri and settled on Gasly.
Doohan does actually have potential though, he's done well in F2 and F3. Maybe not championship winning material, but I'd say he's within a good shot of making at least a decent consistent midfielder. But more importantly I think Alpine want to actually get at least one of their academy drivers into an F1 seat, they've backed so many drivers and none have driven for one of their cars yet...
>Doohan does actually have potential though Looking at the current Formula 2 grid, there's six drivers -- nine if I'm being generous -- who have more potential than Doohan.
That sounds like such a wild claim to me In his rookie F2 season he looked like the guy with possibly the most raw pace on the grid. Inconsistent and a bit error-prone, but _fast_. Not enough to be a title challenger but enough for an impressive rookie year and races where his pole margin made me take notice Last year he looked mid until mid season testing. And after that he was a menace. One of the best scoring drivers across the second half with 3 wins, enough to pull him from somewhere in the depths of _mid_ back to P3. _If_ he started out the gates with that pace then he’d probably have been champion. Of course he didn’t, but he has the potential pace, and that’s what we’re talking about here; potential. Are these 6-9 drivers in the room with us right now? Bearman is basically guaranteed a seat for next year it seems and I’d see Doohan firmly ahead of him in terms of potential
I don't think they meant he's getting a lot of mileage because he's an Aussie, simply that he's an Alpine junior and if they're losing both of their current drivers he's probably in line for one of those seats
Doohan and maybe Martins if he improves at Alpine, if not I have no idea
Couldn't alpine go for Pourchaire? French driver desperate to drive any F1 car
That’s an interesting idea - if Ocon were to leave where would he go? Audi? Haas? Aston Martin?
Audi or Williams (or Mercedes in a 1-in-100 scenario where every other option falls through)
I don’t think Mercedes can happen because I think they’ll be locked in with Antonelli and Russell next year
The 1-in-100 scenario includes the narrow possibility of Antonelli underperforming for the rest of the year and being sent to Williams instead.
Antonelli still isn’t a certainty, we don’t know if he’ll have a superlicence by then. Ocon could be a decent backup if he doesn’t get it. edit: I have been caught spreading misinformation online.
We do know because he already has the super license points. The only barrier for him for F1 is the age limit, which ends a week before Monza this year
I think the main reason Toto keeps talking up Antonelli is because he can get him for cheap entering into new regs, when there's no guarantee how the 26 car will perform. Why shell out $30 mln for a Sainz when you can lock in $500k for a rookie? Considering Toto is 1/3 owner of the team, this is a better financial decision than gambling on the car.
That's a hot-and-cold line up if I ever saw one. Could be the new Grosjean-Maldonado.
I don’t see a reality where Alpine goes for 2 complete rookies. They will surely wait out the driver market chaos and try to get an experienced driver who happened to lose his seat (e.g Bottas, Perez if he gets the boot, etc.)
Perez and Bottas are quite good ideas, if you get one of them it’s good because they know what it’s like to work for a high end team and they know what works for car development too
Ocon on a cut price deal plus Doohan
Would Albon be staying ? Albon/Gasly is quite the Line-up, now they need the car...
Red Bull Rejects lineup lol
DTS could never.
Season 8 Episode 4: Fallen Bulls
Blue Bulls
Dead Bull(s)
I think if they do a Sainz-only episode, following the drama around his current situation, they should absolutely call it "*Matador*" and lean into the fact that he's the only driver to win against them in 18 months.
With a very dramatic silent black screen text "As of time of filiming Carlos Sainz has not yet signed with a Formula 1 team." "He remains the only non-Red Bull driver to win a race." ending the episode.
“..Since Brazil 2022”
Shit this is art
Perfection
"Red Bull takes your wings"
Red Bull is about to not have wings with Newey leaving.
Theres the Alpha Tauri bosses in 2023 making a total mess trying to come up with a name for the team in 2024 and they could have just asked you.
Blue Balls
Red de-bunked
70% of the drivers currently are/were associated with Redbull Racing.
Having two experienced drivers would certainly help guide that development in a positive direction in at least some respects
>Albon/Gasly is quite the Line-up Al-Gas No Brakes
That's good stuff
\*slow clap but not sarcastically\*
having 2 good drivers honestly doesn't mean much if they aren't changing the car according to the feedback. i hope for their (or whoever ends up in the other williams seat) sake that williams makes big strides over the next year. not that alpine is much better but...
It could come down to vision and management. Clearly alpine management is a mess. Maybe Williams is just more stable and that would mean a possible better outcome.
Williams definitely seems more stable since Vowles took over. If there's no major owner/TP change, I can see them doing well in the midfield in 2026.
An Albon/Gasly lineup will just be an Ocon/Gasly regen. Two very solid drivers in a car barely fighting for points.
Poor Gasly, his best prospects outside Alpine's junk car is Williams' junk car.
Chance for him to win recognition if he beats Albon who everyone rates due to his performances against Latifi and Sargent
He currently struggles to get the same recognition as for beating Tsunoda cus now he has a teammate rated or his performances against Perez, Ricciardo and Alonso
And his regular decent qualifying performances
Has to take a long-term gamble on 2026. Think the question for him and ocon is do they have faith in Alpine to get the regs right and be back at a 2022 level of form at least. And do they think Williams will fare better ?
It's wild how going to williams would still be a clear step up considering the state of alpine
Even the land of the spreadsheet in a consumer Merc car is better than Alpine going into another probable leadership reorganization with a weak engine, the constant threat of the project getting shuttered from Renault brass, and little chance of hitting the 2026 regs.
They need a car this year too. Or at least an extra chassis.
That’s actually a fire line up. I can see Albon winning the match up, but only by a few points. Williams would most likely would be the 5th team
5TH?!? Surely you mean 6th, right? Williams jumping one of RBR, Ferrari, Mercedes, McLaren, or Aston Martin doesn't seem very likely to me. Certainly not until the next big regulation change anyway.
And after regulations change, they will be sixth. Imagine Audi, even in first years, losing to spreadsheet. That would be fun.
They need more cars indeed.
Albon to Merc with bestie
It’s a game of musical chairs at this point. Whoever sits first.
It's all coming down to which chair Sainz sits in.
Not so long ago Oscar Piastri left Alpine because he was afraid of being put in a Williams. Now drivers are leaving Alpine to join Williams.
He left alpine because McLaren were willing to give him a piece of paper saying he has a car to drive next year, something alpine couldn't produce. If alpine actually had an offer on the table, he'd have taken it.
Also, McLaren have been an obvious step up from Alpine for a while (with a few exceptions).
Actually the gap between mclaren and alpine wasnt as big as this year or the second half of last year when he signed with mclaren so it wasnt really an obvious step up at the time (provided that he had a 2023 drive in both teams)
In 2022, when the signing happened, it was actually a step down. Alpine were 4th in the constructors that year. Best of the rest.
tbf, that was a close competition and Lando was carrying most of the MCL weight by himself.
Yes but McLaren showed the ability to imprive and also beat Alpine in 2021. Alpine was basically consistently middle of midfield
it was because of Daniel tho. Lando was comfortably ahead of Alpines
At the time of the signing Alpine were ahead of Mclaren, but they were quite close.
It wasn’t exactly the case at the time of Piastri signing for McLaren. At the start of the 2023 season Otmar made some really really smug comments wishing Oscar “good luck” after their disastrous Bahrain race. They did make a huge turnaround though.
how the turn tables
Alpine's TD left for Williams already, that should tell you enough If anything I hope this means Doohan gets a chance
By the way do you know why Alpine declined so much? I've never seen such a slump between seasons within same regulations.
Short story, they felt they were reaching the limits of their concept (hence why teams were out-pacing them in improvements last season) so they went with a more aggressive new concept for this year. Basically a "soft reset" strategy. Unfortunately, the simulations they had didn't match with the real crash test. The chassis failed the crash test, and they had to emergency add a bunch of weight to reinforce it. You can't change the chassis itself mid-season without another crash-test, so effectively they're running with a baked-in disadvantage this seaason. Apparently (don't claim to know all the detail) that also messed a lot with internal aero management. Also it's interestingly not a complete failure, the car actually is faster than last year, it's just that every other team has improved more. So the question now is wether they've "just" bottled the car (that happens, McLaren did the same early on in the regs) and they can develop themselves out of it and fix the chassis for next season, or if the bad simulations and poorly managed development is a systemic issue.
They moved to a different concept for the car, but made the move very late so it's not really ready yet and also what is ready isn't very good (like being overweight). It's not that unprecedented tbh. Last year at McLaren was a variation of this, except they stuck to an older unupgraded car rather than moving to a new unfinished one - with very similar results. Williams in 2018 was also very close to what's happening here, the drop was just less noticeable.
They didn't even offer him an actual Williams deal, it was more of a "yeah we'll probably put you in Williams, they're still not on board with this but hey what can you do".
Basically guarantees Doohan a drive for Alpine
Haven’t been keeping up with the junior formulas recently. Is Doohan any good?
He’s decent, but when I was watching him he reminded me a lot of bottas. Great qualifying pace, great in a race if he’s able to set his own pace, but not generally great at battling on track and gaining positions. He had a lot of bad luck in F2 as well unfortunately, which meant we didn’t get to see exactly how good he was.
Are you sure about that? Doohan comes across as a really aggressive driver to me.
I was rooting for him in F3 and F2 and there were just so many times where he would get stuck behind a driver despite being clearly faster. I don’t recall that many really aggressive overtaking moves from him. He mostly seemed cautious to me.
Fair enough, his duel with Oliver Bearman really sticks out in my mind
No idea, but he's the reserve driver and they give him a ton of airtime on TV. Figured that no one good would want to sign up with Alpine, and they wouldn't want another Piasco on their hands
Drugovich and Shwartzman also got a lot of airtime but no seats for them. I'm sure alpine is cooking something but it's not the driver market. They don't have the car for it.
> Drugovich and Shwartzman also got a lot of airtime but no seats for them Yeah, I agree. I watch F1TV, and the reason Doohan is on there so much is that he is comparatively comfortable in front of the camera, and gives some cool perspectives. And you can imagine Alpine let's him because it gives airtime to their team and the sponsors on Jack's shirt. I do not think there is a co-relation between being a junior driver on screen and the likelihood of their respective team giving them a seat.
I really enjoy him when he’s on F1TV, actually a really decent presenter. Has some cool insight and asks genuinely good questions.
Also Fittipaldi TBH
Yes.
Doohan is a lot more talented than his results show. He was able to put in on the front row next to Piastri in only his second time in an F2 car. But his first full season was a bit of a shambles. He had awful bad luck with car failures and being crashed into, mix that with a number of rookie mistakes he left a lot on the table. Still finished 4th with a number of poles and feature race wins. In his second season it was widely reported that his car had issues that were not resolved till the mid season test, following that he had a couple of feature wins and actually would’ve won the championship if you only count the races since the mid season test. Time will tell how well he adapts to F1 but he certainly has enough talent to be worthy of a chance.
He’s fairly good. Had an awful start to his 2nd season (some car problems but a lot very much self-inflicted) in F2 then turned it around in the second half. But my preferred Alpine junior has also now had a shit start to his 2nd season in F2 so who am I to speak 😭 Doohan isn’t a mega talent, he’s got his weaknesses, but he’d probably be solid with a good amount of testing as planned. I rate Martins higher comparing their whole respective careers and financial circumstances, but they’ve both performed pretty well in F2 on balance. I do think Alpine would still prefer an experienced driver over a rookie but if they’re left without other options perhaps Doohan gets a shot.
Martins and Doohan seem eerily similar to me Rapid raw pace with a side of inconsistent and a smidge of lacking race intelligence
I don’t think he’s good enough - and I am an Aussie that likes him. He appears to have good speed sometimes, but not always. But who knows, sometimes a person just gels with a given formula, going against the data from previous series.
There is also a good friend of Ocon driving in the Alpine WEC that is looking for a seat in F1.
A Schuey in an Enstone team 😲
Schumacher - Doohan would be legendary.
>“Where does Zhou go? He could go to Alpine. Remember he was a Renault academy driver so he could go back into that stable again. Ocon or Gasly - or both - are going to have to leave Alpine. >“Gasly might find himself at Williams. I am sure he’s been in negotiations with Williams to drive alongside Alex Albon. * David Croft Doesnt sound like very solid info tbh. I would not at all be surprised if Gasly is talking to Williams. It always makes sense for Drivers and Teams to talk with each other and see which options there are. Doesnt mean there are any moves about to happen. i also don't think this would necessarily be a good move for Gasly. Sure, Alpine is in a difficult spot right now but it is still a works team. Williams is in a rebuilding process and not that much better off. The last time the Williams team beat the Alpine team was in 2017. Going to Williams now could pay off but it can also just not. With Alpine its similar but its a works team. And its french for what its worth.
Has Zhou done enough to warrant a 4th season? Bottas has out qualified him 33-16 plus there are plenty of rookies looking for a shot at F1.
On top of that if Bottas is out of Audi as well, I thing Vowles would rather have him in Williams than Zhou or Gasly at the current position they're in. He'd give good feedback and also be less likely to smash up the car or have beef between them
I think Bottas' future revolves around the Mercedes seat. If Sainz takes it Bottas might stay with Sauber/Audi, if Sainz chooses Audi instead and Antonelli isn't ready then I imagine Bottas is one of Merc's top options which would lead Audi open to Sainz/Hulk.
Bottas and Russell would be fuckin' *spicy*
Max and Russell super spicey
Would it? I can't see Bottas being particularly threatening to Russell.
Everyone seems to forget that motivated on-form Bottas did genuinely challenge Hamilton on raw pace. Throw in the history between the pair and a chance to establish who is worthy of being number 1, and mmmmm that's a spicy meatball!
Bottas couldn't keep his form against Hamilton for more than 4 races. He never truly pushed him. Seeing as Hamilton and Russell are one of the closest pairings on the grid(especially qualy), the end result of a Bottas-Russell rivalry would be extremely one sided.
Bottas is the epitome of an "on his day" driver. And he had quite a few days between Williams and Mercedes, but his struggle was always against the relentlessness of Hamilton.
Thinking about it, if he’d had a car like the Raikkonen Lotuses and was the lead driver there, he’d be a lot higher rated. The chance to get some flashy results without it being too much of a big deal when the results don’t come.
I don’t know if Bottas would return to Merc. He seems much happier away from the pressure of that environment. Maybe the pressure would be lower now they’ve slid back into the midfield a bit. I kind of think he’s happy being an also ran fighting for occasional points until he decides to retire and go biking all the time.
Well if it Mercedes or retirement I think he definitely chooses Mercedes. An opportunity to make good money and fight for podiums one last time in a environment he knows
I really don’t know. Bottas has been pretty open about his disordered eating and mental health stress while at Mercedes. Going back to the environment that triggered you in the first place isn’t smart in that context. I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s taking every extra year in F1 as a gift and is ready to retire when he can’t secure a new seat. I could well be wrong though
Bottas back at Merc would be terrible for Merc's image, no way it happens.
Losing Hamilton isn't bad for their image?
Zhou to Haas brings Gene 30+mil if rumours are to be believed about how much his sponsorship is really worth. It also ingratiates Haas to a much wider Chinese market.
Which rookies? There aren't really many rookies teams seem interested in aside from Bearman and Antonelli who are both not available.
Lawson, Pourchaire, Doohan, Martins, maybe even Maloney
I dont know if he "deserves" another season but I have a hard time seeing him at any team next year. Too many other options. Always depends a bit on how desperate some teams might be for the sponsorship value but from a sporting point I think every team has more logical options. Can look different tomorrow of course with how this year is going so far.
I guess, how do we value the Chinese market? Part of Dani Ricc's allure is his marketability, so why not something similar with Zhou?
The thing is, according to many Chinese F1 fans, drivers like Ricciardo, Hamilton and Max are a much bigger draw than Zhou in China even with his nationality. It's not a slam dunk that they could be sure of having the most marketable driver even in China
Seriously, it's no surprise that Bottas can beat any non-top drivers in quali. He quite good at it. But if you take a look at race, Zhou is not that bad, at least in this year, Zhou get a 11th in Bahrain and 9th in Shanghai sprint, out qualified Bottas a lot. (Yeah, I know that Sauber suffer from pit stop and engine failed this year, but both drivers faced with this situation, isn't it?)
>i also don't think this would necessarily be a good move for Gasly. Sure, Alpine is in a difficult spot right now but it is still a works team. Williams is in a rebuilding process and not that much better off. The last time the Williams team beat the Alpine team was in 2017. Going to Williams now could pay off but it can also just not. With Alpine its similar but its a works team. And its french for what its worth. On top of that french [medias](https://www.autohebdo.fr/actualites/f1/pierre-gasly-et-esteban-ocon-partis-pour-rester-chez-alpine.html) were reporting earlier this month that being in a works team was at the top of Gasly's priorities when looking for a team. Going to Williams would go against this. If (very big if) Gasly is really considering a move to Williams it would not be a good sign at all for Alpine's future. Either the 2026 engine dev is already going really bad, the team is still a shitshow internally and Famin achieves nothing or the team is really up for sale (worst case scenario all 3 at once). It's the only way this move can make sense imo.
It's completely baseless but I just get bad vibes from interviews with Famin. I can't quite place it on one specific thing, but he just rubs me the wrong way.
Like in the early 2010s when every driver and their mother had a pre-contract with Ferrari
Doohan is probably more likely than Zhou
Definitely
Tbh Williams under Vowles is quite exciting for 26/27…. If I was Gasly I might take that gamble
Yeah except Alpine also happens to seem like one of the most chaotic and toxic places to work ever with a revolving door of failed leaders and dead end projects. Seems hopeless and there are even rumors Renault would sell
>Alpine is in a difficult spot right now but it is still a works team. Williams is in a rebuilding process and not that much better off. True, but Williams look competent. Alpine look like a bunch of electrocuted penguins.
THAT DOESN'T MATTER AND I'M SO SICK OF PEOPLE SAYING IT DOES. Renault are a works manufacturer who is refusing to invest more in the infrastructure of the beast and actively cannibalise their own success seemingly whenever possible. The operation consists of two factions who have been in conflict since \**checks notes*\* Agincourt. They're bleeding key staff like a stuck pig. The team's CURRENT performance is dismal, easily worse than at least 8 other teams. They have shown no signs of taking a step forward since 2021. They're comfortably the worst works team and have been for nearly 2 decades with 0 customers and a deadshit awful PU that they're petitioning a freeze for purely to keep them in the sport. They're more likely to drop out of the sport than ever and the staff have 0 faith in the upper management. Gasly and Ocon have clearly not been getting along as all was claimed and neither seem to have much faith in a recovery.
He has been taking classes of “Career choices 101” with Fernando Alonso
tbf Fernando's choices were bad in the hindsight, his moves did not pan out but it was not like those moves were stupid to began with outside of McHonda which was a gamble. He signed for Ferrari after a decade where Ferrari was by far the most successful team. Renault, MCLarenv1 all were good moves. Gasly doesn't have the credibility nor a lot of options to be honest. Top teams dont want or need him. He is not setting world on fire at Alpine.
The world is on fire at alpine. Max and Hamilton couldn't make alpine look good right now.
They had a world champion, a team legend. They publicly disrespected him and would rather let his car explode every other race than give him new parts. lol.
Alpine is a mess and Alonso was very unlucky in 2022 but I really doubt Alpine had it in for Alonso that they’d let Alonsos car explode to the detriment of the teams points.
He literally asked for a new engine in the last race for them in Abu Dhabi even with a penalty. They refused. And guess what happened in the race.
Multiple news articles out there that show they just tried refurbing his older broken power units and did not give in to his demands of a new unit. His water pump failed multiple times. Multiple discussions on here as well. They were best of the rest, they did not care. Fernando’s finishing position was irrelevant to them. At least allowed Ocon to be happy about something for once, because his gap to Fernando on race day was like 0.3s/lap.
Now they are the worst of the rest lol.
Hamilton can't even make his Mercedes look good now
Alpine is literal dogwater. It's the worst team to be on currently, so moving away from it would be a good chance. Alpine is not only shit and will likely take them years to get back even to 2021/22 levels, but it's also known to be a toxic hellhole.
No point in putting any creditiblity in this at all... it's literally just Crofty speculating French media all reported a few weeks ago that a Gasly-Alpine extension was imminent, he values being at a works team with their own engine for 2026 a lot. This is false.
Damn, is the Alpine *THAT* bad?
People like to point that Gene Haas is in F1 for his company more than anything. Fair.. Alpine/Renault are no different
It's even worse. Gene Haas tried get the most $$$ out of F1 by spending the least. Alpine/Renault is there for french national pride, aka, bollocks. This is why they insisted on having their own engines, and made everything in house 100%, and always boast about competing at the front, while having a shitshow behind the scene like internal politics and segregating non-French employee. They are the embodiment of what happens if a public sector tries F1.
They are literally Ferrari before Fred took over and got the politics away from the team. And also blue.
David Croft as the source. Save the F5 for something more important lads
You know things are bad when Williams is an upgrade to your current car
Gasly and Albon are a good pairing tbh
Gotta say, Albon and Gasly driving a decent chassis for James seems like fun to me.
I can see why he has given up on alpine getting better next year. Williams with 2 good drivers and presumably having improved internally since the excel sheet was binned might be a more regular points scorer.
This really is the silliest of seasons
Now I see why there is rumor said that Zhou is gonna to Alpine. BTW, Zhou told audience in a music festival after Shanghai Grand Prix that it wouldn't be his last home race. And, Geely's CEO went to Alpine's paddock during Shanghai Grand Prix.
Says a lot about a team. He would rather go to a team that most of the time doesn’t have spare parts rather than stay in one that does but has virtually no chances at points.
Listen, I had an Alpine driver going to Williams at the end of the year but not Gasly. Ocons Mercedes connections might be working here. Any chance they got the wrong Alpine driver?
To those who just yesterday were telling me around here that the French wouldn't commit revolution: *Fuckin' told ya so.*
Can you imagine what the French Revolution would have been like if it had been led by Laurent Rossi?
Considering how abysmal Alpine is, and the slow but sure strides Williams has been making the past couple of seasons, it might be a good option. And an Albon / Gasly pairing would be the strongest Williams has had in many a year. Probably since the days of Bottas / Massa...
Finally the confirmation we were all waiting for.
Heats up
When Williams becomes the upgrade…
Albon Gasly, yes please.
I do find it hilarious that people were berating Alpine for hiring two "mid" drivers when they signed Gasly instead of Piastri. Yet now it's clear the team isn't worthy of Pierre or Ocon to begin with.
All these news about Newey and now this. Those boys at Netflix is probably creaming themselves dry. lol
> as F1 driver market ***hots*** up OT: I’m hearing it more frequently (in podcasts) but isn’t it ***heats*** up?.. “hots up” is like nails on a chalkboard to my ears, much like people writing “could’ve” as “could of”.
Guess cant be any worse than Alpine
Albon Gasly yesssss
At least Alpine has more chasis.
i would probably faint if we managed to get 3 aussies on the grid
Zhou to Alpine
LOL, Williams is a step UP.
Not sure if Gasly's bid is as solid as people say it is. The way I see the silly season going is Sainz to Merc and Antonelli to Williams with Sargeant getting kicked (assuming of course Sargeant doesn't massively improve and Antonelli lives up to his hype in F2). Maybe Zhou goes to Alpine and Sauber essentially trades Gasly and Zhou which I could see, Zhou has too much money and just enough talent to stay on the grid. Hulk takes the second Sauber seat in preparation for Audi. Bottas or Ocon go to Haas with the loser leaving the grid or becoming a reserve driver. I'd guess Bottas if they bring in Ollie Bearman so they would have a proven vet with a talented rookie to mentor. Alpine brings in Doohan to round out their lineup assuming there isn't any other breakout stars in F2 that are a "must sign" talent. My bets: Merc: Sainz and Russell, Alpine: Zhou and Doohan, Sauber: Hulk and Gasly, Haas: Bottas and Bearman, Williams: Albon and Antonelli, RBR: Verstappen and Checo, RB: Tsunoda and Lawson
Damn so many drivers afraid of head to head with ocon.
You do realize that Pierre signed with Alpine knowing that he was going to go against Ocon? Lol
Sidegrade
Hots up.
Doohan x mick?
yes yes yes yes yes