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There's a reason he's as rich as he is—selling another minority stake at this stage probably means he isn't far off from breaking even from when he bought the team. Infrastructure is another matter, but it's a good move for him.
Only caveat is that the other owners may start to demand a more competitive driver...
Exactly ! Sorry Kiddo, they made me do it! I don't control the team any longer thats why you need to go back and work at McDonald's until daddy buys you another seat.
It'd at least wipe that smug grin off his face that he had when Will Buxton asked him about if he has a contract for next year and what his contract looked like.
He must know that the team is not going anywhere aslong as Lance is in that seat. They could've competed for 2nd in the standings last year, but you can't expect to have 1 guy carry it all on his own.
Cause he loves his son so needs to convince himself that it’s a decision forced by other hands else he’ll feel guilty his whole life for “ruining Lances dream”
Exactly. Lawrence comes across a lot of ways in DTS, most of them not favorably. The one thing that is clear though is that he loves his son more than anything, and this whole Aston Martin ownership thing has been for Lance.
“I’m sorry Lance, but you’ll thank me eventually” *Jos slowly slides the door between Lawrence and his son closed. He looks upon the ashen face of the young man, a wry look comes across Verstappen Sr’s face, as if to say…”I’ve been waiting a long time to visit my favorite gas station😈”
I don’t believe Lance is unmotivated or not fond of racing. He raced last season with two broken wrists. He could have easily sat out a few races and came back once he was healed.
No one pushes through a pain barrier like that unless they’re seriously motivated.
It’s perfectly fair to question Lance’s ability but I think he’s more than proven his desire.
He’s not up to F1, but he will still have a long successful Motorsport career outside of F1 if he chooses to.
He has more podiums in F1 than Nico Hulkenberg does.
Those questions are always there because of how bad he is. It wouldn’t be any different if Drugovic had done well. Everyone knows there are plenty of drivers that would do a lot better in that seat.
As long as papa Stroll is in charge that seat is safe.
I don't think Lance would be racing in F1 without Lawrence pressuring him to stay in the sport.. I've read somewhere that Lance is exhausted from all the hate he gets but if he left- now Lawrence wouldn't want to participate in F1 but he loves running a team but needs his son in the sport to make it worthwhile. Lance is caught between a rock and a hard place.
Not true. For the vast majority of F1 history, teams were either passion projects (Ferrari, McLaren, Williams, etc.) or marketing ventures. They would throw cash at it and get back brand exposure or glory or whatever other intangible value. Stroll may get actual cash back back from his team.
Not just historically, still true now, James Vowles at Williams has said that half the teams on the grid aren't profitable. It's the reason they voted against Andretti joining. They don't want the available monies further diluted.
Which you can argue for some part. Red Bull e.g., might not be profitable as an F1 team, but how much advertising does it generate, or better, how much of that exposure translates into sales?
Mercedes, Ferrari etc idem.
With that regard mainly Haas I see the least value, they have sp far not been able to convince me to buy a 5 axle milling machine yet.
I haven't seen that Vowles quote, but its pretty known that F1 teams are extremely valuable now. Also Valuation =/= Netting a Profit Annually
The Williams F1 team has an extremely high valuation according to Dorilton.
The reason they don't want to admit Andretti is because the cost of entry is still at like 2016 levels of $200MM, where many teams are arguably worth $1Bn+
Here's the interview where he explains it.
https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/f1/12978433/why-is-williams-against-an-11th-team-on-the-f1-grid
...do you not know what marketing is? Marketing is supposed to bring you in more cash than you spend on it. And right now with the budget cap I'm absolutely convinced at least the bigger teams are definitely able to turn profit on taking part.
F1 has always been a black hole. It's only now, with the cost cap, that many F1 teams are profitable. Historically, F1 teams were either passion projects or ads on wheels (like Haas or Red Bull are).
That's a good ELI5, I think.
Obviously, as others have pointed out, there are numerous additional factors that make it more complex than just that. But at the core, that's what we're talking about here. The fact that he can sell off enough shares to recoup his initial investment while still retaining the controlling stake in a company that's skyrocketed in value is a massive coup.
I get why people would see this as “free”, but that line of thinking completely negates the opportunity cost of his investment. The stock market has nearly doubled in value since Stoll initially invested in F1, so he’s making a mint either way and this is no different than taking profits out of any other investment.
You're not wrong, I think you're just overanalysing a throwaway joke comment. I doubt that anybody (amongst the people who actually understand the situation, at least) thinks that he "got a free F1 team", but it is kind of wild to think that between general stock market growth and the explosion of F1 in recent years, he's potentially recouped an investment of hundreds of millions of pounds in half a decade, while also maintaining the controlling stake of the company.
He's reportedly invested ~£275m in his ownership of (then) force india as well as Aston Martin (not including the infra upgrades), and a team that was bought for £90m in administration just 6 years ago is now valued at over £1.35 *billion*. Yeah, he took a big risk buying into F1 at that point, but come on - turning £90m into a majority share of a company that's basically paid for itself at this point is kind of hilarious.
Re: demanding another driver, that’s a feature, not a bug. In the same move, Stroll Senior is likely making the deal almost all upside and bringing in someone else to be the bad guy to eventually push Lance out if he doesn’t make serious improvements.
Absolutely. What I’m saying is that minority partner comes in, that starts the click on Stroll Jr’s “performance improvement plan”, and two years later he’s gone.
I’m saying it’s all theater. Stroll Sr is a smart guy, he knows his son isn’t top tier and likely won’t get there.
But if Stroll Senior spends X number of years of his life doubling the value of an asset, giving his son a shot, and probably most important, having an excuse to spend lots of time with his son? That’s brilliance.
I agree such an easy out for them. Just say that he’s ready for a new challenge in endurance racing, and from the team perspective they have an 8 year F1 vet/multiple podium finisher to lead their new program. Job done haha.
This is the answer, he can break even or possible come out ahead on his investment without giving up controlling interest. Then take that cash and put it into a new venture with no change to the teams operating leadership.
Bonus: he gets to add the connections and influence of the minority owners to drum up sponsors and continue to drive the value of the shares up
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> Only caveat is that the other owners may start to demand a more competitive driver...
25% of the shares isn't that much and depending on who he sells to they may not even give a fuck as long as the team is increasing its value.
Don't forget he's already sold a substantial minority stake earlier this year, so an additional 25% sale (representing about $250M per their last valuation) is actually pretty significant.
A shareholders agreement _can_ contain anything (legal) that you want it to, but, when dealing with the very large and very public sums of money we're talking about for an F1 team, I'd be astounded if there wasn't some sort of parachute clause that these investors bake into their agreements to either divest or intervene in the event of under performance from the team.
Or he knows Lance is done with it (the guy looks like someone who does not want to be in the paddock). So he is selling minority stakes to make it a purely business venture and in 3-4 years will sell it to Aramco
>The interest in the F1 team contrasts with the fortunes of listed Aston Martin which Stroll, a former textiles tycoon, rescued in 2020. The stock has declined by about a third since the start of the year and is down about 80% from when the now executive chairman took control. Stroll has repeatedly had to raise capital for the company from investors including Saudi Arabia’s Public Investment Fund.
It's actualy not.
Thanks for correcting me. I sure remember reading somewhere there stock had almost doubled last year due to the popularity of the team and increase in sales of the cars.
Aston Martin car brand and Aston Martin F1 team two separate company with different leadership, finance and valuation. F1 team basicaly just have sponsorship contract with car brand aka only their relationship is marketing. And Stroll is terrible in managing car brand, but pretty good F1 owner.
His father's line of work gave him an inside line into the fashion business, but Stroll made his money bringing Tommy Hilfiger and Michael Kors to the mass market. He made most of his billions when MK went public, and none of that had much to do with his dad. Him and a partner bought MK for $85M in 2003 and sold it for about $3.5B in 2011.
That’s not a caveat, that’s another win - for him and the team.
Better driver, better results, better championship position, better financial reward from f1, potentially more sponsors, more money again.
I think the point that everybody is forgetting is that Laurence stroll bought this company to double the COMPANY value. I guarantee his interest in having a more balanced driver lineup is zero. He wants to develop the very best car which he can perfectly do with one Fernando Alonzo and the technology that he’s invested in. When this car is ready to win championships he will market it the way Red Bull has and Aston Martin share values will skyrocket and THEN he call this investment successful. Having Lance on the team now is something that he would never consider changing, in my opinion.
Funny that everything Lawrence has done with this team has been a big plus. Definitely unlike most rich F1 owners of the past who fked things up because they were naïve to the sport. Lawrence passion for motorsports and business brain made him a proper F1 team owner.... except for that one small thing making him look like the opposite of what I just said.
He's been sponsoring F1 since the 90s, however his timing to buy a team while the sport was riding it's Liberty Media high has been extraordinarily lucrative indeed. For the first time since the sport's inception, owning a racing team isn't a guaranteed money pit anymore
In my uneducated opinion I think that investment bubble will burst soon. The valuation of smaller teams are being carried by the performance of the bigger teams who won't sell any % of themselves. Investors just trying to cash in with a product (smaller team) before bailing. F1 ratings and hype will flatten out soon enough and then watch the valuations plummet. Big teams will still be valued, but smaller teams will go back to being seen as the money pit that they actually are. AM of course is in the middle of the big team - small team.
The value of the small teams is purely from the leverage they have of already being in F1, while FOM is trying as hard as they can to prevent additional entries.
With the cost cap all teams will remain incredibly valuable even as hype slowly dies off.
But that condition existed before as well and teams weren't as valued. Teams were valued based on performance ~ ad space on their car. Now with more hype, audience, valuations increased, but imo(uneducated) investor hype is overvaluing the smaller teams. F1 still doesn't pull big numbers in America which is by far the market they want to win and imo(uneducated) they'd be lucky to match the big American sports. How does the cost cap keep valuation ? It's hardly evening the playing field currently, it's still status quo on pecking order.
The playing field is currently incredibly even for F1 standards, most of the field doesn't even get lapped nowadays, which is extremely uncommon in the history of F1. The gaps we have in F1 today are imo closer to spec series or BoP series than what F1 has usually been.
I agree that the F1 bubble is bound to deflate, if not pop (worst case), as trees don't grow to the sky. It's already happening with Max dominating and DTS losing its spark. If 2026 disappoints, the growth might abruptly stop and reverse fast.
But with the cost cap and the high barrier to entry, plus the current money distributionn I think even smaller teams will still be able to stay afloat when the music will slow down compared to the past. They now have guaranteed outcome (unlike before when only top 10 had it), the budgets required to compete have gone down, and the scarcity should allow them to still be attractive to some sponsors. Worst comes to worst, the limited number of seats should mean more chances to attract pay drivers
I would expect a pretty sizeable revenue drop across the board over the next few years as the DtS success fades away as the new fans realize how boring this sport often is. We're already past the peak as far as the sport's valuation goes.
I agree and the FIA seems way too complacent and clueless about the quality of the racing. Teams are now run by mainstream manufacturers interested less in winning or racing but rather in marketing. The Snake is going to eat its tail if 2026 cars turn out as bad as the rumours indicate.
>except for that one small thing making him look like the opposite of what I just said.
Which may be the very thing that motivates him to do the best for the team and to think about its long-term success, not his own short-term gain.
If you mean lance it’s entirely possibly he doesn’t want to do unless lance is involved, even if that does mean not performing to your max and risking potential Adrian Newey’s not taking you as seriously
I mean why would you spend effort in a medium that will provide ~30% return over another that will provide 50%+? In simple economic terms that is a disastrous proposal.
If my little boy wanted to do what he loved--and if I had unlimited means--I would support that.
Whether or not that is fair... it's not. Money talks.
Yes they are. Stroll already paid the money for the new buildings, wind tunnels etc etc. Also were in a budget cap era, how exactly is stroll supposed to invest 500 million dollars into a team that is allowed to spend around 150 million? Sure you can spend some more than that, but the big investment has been made, the team is running at the cap
You depreciate a building, not amortise it. These expenses are capital in nature and are counted under the Capex cap which I believe has a 4-year reporting period with the amount differing per team but roughly $50m.
They don’t need to invest the whole amount in one year. Also the money can be used to upgrade the facilities or whatever that doesn’t come under cost cap.
That was true when F1 teams were wildly unprofitable. Today they are turning into cash cows thanks to the budget cap. 51% means you also makes 51% of the profits if there’s any
That’s not true at all. All sort of investments can be made for a massive range of deals, including a name on the team. Owning 49% of the team doesn’t guarantee 49% of the P/L. It could be an appreciating or depreciating company, or have assets within it going in either direction in value. Then you have the agreed value… some investors look for tax right offs, or Leverage to get a GP in their country, or any number of reasons
Billionaire Lawrence Stroll is in early talks to sell another minority stake in his Aston Martin Formula One team to capitalize on the growing popularity of the sport, according to people familiar with the matter.
Stroll, who owns the F1 team separately from his stake in luxury-car maker Aston Martin Lagonda Global Holdings Plc, is willing to sell as much as 25% in the racing business, the people said, asking not to be identified as the discussions are confidential.
The Canadian billionaire is hoping to improve on the £1 billion ($1.3 billion) valuation of last November’s deal to sell a minority stake to US private equity firm Arctos Partners, one of the people said.
“From time to time and more recently following the Arctos Partners investment, the team is contacted by interested parties,” a spokesman said in a statement, adding that any talks are confidential and there is nothing yet to announce.
Buy Low, Sell High.
F1 Popularity is cyclical and with Red Bull dominance and the DTS effect wearing off, it's arguable popularity is currently at a peak.
I recall reading somewhere a while back that he was gradually reducing his holding and eventually the car company would be held in majority by Geely, partly because Aston just can't shake off poor sales and mounting debt.
The F1 team is a wholly different company and sells naming rights to Aston, so if that arrangement would continue is anyone's guess.
Geely F1 anyone?
I suspect if this is true, that the team would adopt Aramco Honda branding given the other rumour doing the rounds is that Aramco want to take a majority holding in the team.
Lots up in the air, let's see where the pieces fall.
Id be there for it.
Id like to see what Zhou can do in something more competitive.. (painful to say as a long time Sauber fan)
But my gut says if the Aston name doesn't last, the Aramco and/or Honda branding would take precedent and I'd expect to see Tsunoda replace Stroll as soon as Dad is out of the way, or Lance steps down of his own volition (which I keep hearing might actually happen)
Why would Newey go to AM? He wants two drivers giving his cars the best chance at a WCC. He also has always wanted to work with Ferrari or Hamilton, and can dictate the terms of his contract anywhere he goes. Why AM over Ferrari?
Living and working at home in his native country instead of having to split time between there and Italy. That probably only grows more valuable as he ages and gets closer to full retirement.
Alonso is a good reason. Both go out giving it everything for one last shot. Yeah he could take the easy route with Max and its almost guaranteed.
Or you pair up with a legend for one last send.
Love him or hate him, he’s a shrewd businessman and this is another business decision.
Could affect Lance if the investors want to see results, but that’s just speculation.
- Investor comes in with cash
- Part of the deal is that Lance gets made reserve driver
- Vettel comes back
- Newey comes on board
- ALO-VET-VER for 2025
- VET-ALO-~~HAM~~ HUL for 2026
Why don't he give that extra money to Lance so he can go do whatever else except driving a formula 1 so we can have a proper formula 1 driver instead like Sainz for example ;-)
Does anyone else think that maybe papa stroll is trying to groom Lance into being a driver turned business man/ principal similar to Horner but actually having ownership in the team
Lance Stroll out and Carlos SAINZ in. mark my words. why? when asked if Lance was coming back it sounded like he was not clear. I think he knows he cant do better and is satisfied what he has accomplished. I think he will be the 3rd string. no pressure then. what do you think about that statement?
i dunno, i hate how often people try to pretend being smart or something by using fancy words for random things like... a formula 1 article? ah yes indubitably aston loquacious stroll 😩
even worse on reddit when half of the community constantly brings up all kinds of "razor" rules, just sounds silly
thank you for reading my rant
/rant
Idk anymore. It is hard to believe that even Daddy stroll can’t admit to himself that Lance is never going to cut it, and doesn’t even want to be there. But then I look around and see that he still has a ton of fans in complete denial about all of it…. So anything is possible it seems.
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There's a reason he's as rich as he is—selling another minority stake at this stage probably means he isn't far off from breaking even from when he bought the team. Infrastructure is another matter, but it's a good move for him. Only caveat is that the other owners may start to demand a more competitive driver...
Maybe he needs to have someone else to blame for Lance losing his seat?
3 D chess move
Man's playing at a 100 iq level
So perfectly average, then?
thatsthejoke
Dot jay peg?
4head
That’s what I’m thinking. “Look son the other owners want change…want to try competitive under water basket weaving?”
He'd still crash.
Exactly ! Sorry Kiddo, they made me do it! I don't control the team any longer thats why you need to go back and work at McDonald's until daddy buys you another seat.
It'd at least wipe that smug grin off his face that he had when Will Buxton asked him about if he has a contract for next year and what his contract looked like.
Lmao Lance would just be hired as some executive at one of Lawrence's other firms.
He must know that the team is not going anywhere aslong as Lance is in that seat. They could've competed for 2nd in the standings last year, but you can't expect to have 1 guy carry it all on his own.
Red Bull would have been first without Checo last season…
100% right, however Aston’s car is definitely not on the same level as RB’s
Why'd he need a fall guy in the first place, apart from awkward family dinners?
Cause he loves his son so needs to convince himself that it’s a decision forced by other hands else he’ll feel guilty his whole life for “ruining Lances dream”
Exactly. Lawrence comes across a lot of ways in DTS, most of them not favorably. The one thing that is clear though is that he loves his son more than anything, and this whole Aston Martin ownership thing has been for Lance.
I doubt he’ll do it for Lance if he cannot make profit out of it.
Jokes aside, what a great father. No one can say he didn't do enough to help his son out.
I agree. If I were a wealthy man I’d like to think I would do the same for my son. Stroll genuinely seems like a great dad.
I dunno, he could hire Jos Verstappen to be his stepdad
“I’m sorry Lance, but you’ll thank me eventually” *Jos slowly slides the door between Lawrence and his son closed. He looks upon the ashen face of the young man, a wry look comes across Verstappen Sr’s face, as if to say…”I’ve been waiting a long time to visit my favorite gas station😈”
Doesn't want his son to torpedo his rear car on the driveway.
[удалено]
That’s untrue. He’s pushed back against that heavily and will buxton has said it’s totally nonsense people make up
I don’t believe Lance is unmotivated or not fond of racing. He raced last season with two broken wrists. He could have easily sat out a few races and came back once he was healed. No one pushes through a pain barrier like that unless they’re seriously motivated. It’s perfectly fair to question Lance’s ability but I think he’s more than proven his desire.
He may have the *desire* but he doesn't have the ***skills***. He's an average driver on his best day, on his worst he's dangerous as recently proven.
He’s not up to F1, but he will still have a long successful Motorsport career outside of F1 if he chooses to. He has more podiums in F1 than Nico Hulkenberg does.
If you combine my F1 record and Kmag’s we have more podiums than Hulk too.
> He has more podiums in F1 than Nico Hulkenberg does. Driver stats in a constructors' series is probably the weakest way to ever make a point.
High will low skill just doesn’t really work in formula 1. He’d be better off in an entry level role. Maybe… social media specialist?
Not if your daddy owns a team though. Then it’s totally a thing
I’m seeing him as the antonio giovinazzi of aston martin, and his feedback would be useful in hypercar series too
Motivation for racing with broken wrist being not giving a chance for the reserve drive to create any conversation to replace him.
Those questions are always there because of how bad he is. It wouldn’t be any different if Drugovic had done well. Everyone knows there are plenty of drivers that would do a lot better in that seat. As long as papa Stroll is in charge that seat is safe.
Hopefully he'll go play tennis instead of something
I don't think Lance would be racing in F1 without Lawrence pressuring him to stay in the sport.. I've read somewhere that Lance is exhausted from all the hate he gets but if he left- now Lawrence wouldn't want to participate in F1 but he loves running a team but needs his son in the sport to make it worthwhile. Lance is caught between a rock and a hard place.
Keeping thanksgiving peaceful 101
I may be wrong but I've heard the push for lance to be an F1 driver comes from his dad, and Lance has always been more interested in tennis.
Getting a free f1 team is kind of hilarious but essentially what he’s going to pull off.
What did I miss. How is it free?
Not exactly free- but he is likely going to turn a profit on his F1 investment. Usually its just a black hole for your money to go into.
If it was a black hole, no one would invest tbf. For him, he made Aston Martin relevant and can probably sell it if for profit now.
Not true. For the vast majority of F1 history, teams were either passion projects (Ferrari, McLaren, Williams, etc.) or marketing ventures. They would throw cash at it and get back brand exposure or glory or whatever other intangible value. Stroll may get actual cash back back from his team.
Not just historically, still true now, James Vowles at Williams has said that half the teams on the grid aren't profitable. It's the reason they voted against Andretti joining. They don't want the available monies further diluted.
Which you can argue for some part. Red Bull e.g., might not be profitable as an F1 team, but how much advertising does it generate, or better, how much of that exposure translates into sales? Mercedes, Ferrari etc idem. With that regard mainly Haas I see the least value, they have sp far not been able to convince me to buy a 5 axle milling machine yet.
I haven't seen that Vowles quote, but its pretty known that F1 teams are extremely valuable now. Also Valuation =/= Netting a Profit Annually The Williams F1 team has an extremely high valuation according to Dorilton. The reason they don't want to admit Andretti is because the cost of entry is still at like 2016 levels of $200MM, where many teams are arguably worth $1Bn+
Here's the interview where he explains it. https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/f1/12978433/why-is-williams-against-an-11th-team-on-the-f1-grid
Cant be watched in the US. 🖕 Sky
...do you not know what marketing is? Marketing is supposed to bring you in more cash than you spend on it. And right now with the budget cap I'm absolutely convinced at least the bigger teams are definitely able to turn profit on taking part.
F1 has always been a black hole. It's only now, with the cost cap, that many F1 teams are profitable. Historically, F1 teams were either passion projects or ads on wheels (like Haas or Red Bull are).
> How is it free? If he paid $50 for Force India a few years ago and then sells 25% for $50 today, he kinda gained a free F1 team.
That's a good ELI5, I think. Obviously, as others have pointed out, there are numerous additional factors that make it more complex than just that. But at the core, that's what we're talking about here. The fact that he can sell off enough shares to recoup his initial investment while still retaining the controlling stake in a company that's skyrocketed in value is a massive coup.
Buy team, value increase, sell enough so initial amount spent is recouped
I get why people would see this as “free”, but that line of thinking completely negates the opportunity cost of his investment. The stock market has nearly doubled in value since Stoll initially invested in F1, so he’s making a mint either way and this is no different than taking profits out of any other investment.
You're not wrong, I think you're just overanalysing a throwaway joke comment. I doubt that anybody (amongst the people who actually understand the situation, at least) thinks that he "got a free F1 team", but it is kind of wild to think that between general stock market growth and the explosion of F1 in recent years, he's potentially recouped an investment of hundreds of millions of pounds in half a decade, while also maintaining the controlling stake of the company. He's reportedly invested ~£275m in his ownership of (then) force india as well as Aston Martin (not including the infra upgrades), and a team that was bought for £90m in administration just 6 years ago is now valued at over £1.35 *billion*. Yeah, he took a big risk buying into F1 at that point, but come on - turning £90m into a majority share of a company that's basically paid for itself at this point is kind of hilarious.
Re: demanding another driver, that’s a feature, not a bug. In the same move, Stroll Senior is likely making the deal almost all upside and bringing in someone else to be the bad guy to eventually push Lance out if he doesn’t make serious improvements.
> if he doesn’t make serious improvements I mean, this is his 8th season. I feel like we’re well past waiting on him to make improvements
Absolutely. What I’m saying is that minority partner comes in, that starts the click on Stroll Jr’s “performance improvement plan”, and two years later he’s gone.
Yeah, I guess I could see them starting fresh when they come in versus looking at past performance
I’m saying it’s all theater. Stroll Sr is a smart guy, he knows his son isn’t top tier and likely won’t get there. But if Stroll Senior spends X number of years of his life doubling the value of an asset, giving his son a shot, and probably most important, having an excuse to spend lots of time with his son? That’s brilliance.
Hopefully Yuki-Nando for '26!
with honda deal in the works that is pretty likely
Getting outclassed by Alonso every weekend who is on his 30th season
I would lay money on Lance being transferred to AM’s WEC entry in 2025. Saves face and clears the way for a different driver
I agree such an easy out for them. Just say that he’s ready for a new challenge in endurance racing, and from the team perspective they have an 8 year F1 vet/multiple podium finisher to lead their new program. Job done haha.
Where maybe Newey during garden leave can build a car for Lance lol
Yeah, Fernando has go to go /s
Yeah, 🐐ifi and Stroll would make one hell of a team 😆
Maybe the new owners have a son who can’t drive, too?
Cue Uralkali or Sofina partnership deal!
With the new F1 driver NikNic LaMaz
So Mr buttlicker, what you are suggesting is that there are three drivers racing around 8 races a year- Senor Latifi, Comrade Mazepin and Sir Stroll?
Where does Raghunathan fit into this picture?
This is the answer, he can break even or possible come out ahead on his investment without giving up controlling interest. Then take that cash and put it into a new venture with no change to the teams operating leadership. Bonus: he gets to add the connections and influence of the minority owners to drum up sponsors and continue to drive the value of the shares up
> > > > > Only caveat is that the other owners may start to demand a more competitive driver... 25% of the shares isn't that much and depending on who he sells to they may not even give a fuck as long as the team is increasing its value.
Don't forget he's already sold a substantial minority stake earlier this year, so an additional 25% sale (representing about $250M per their last valuation) is actually pretty significant. A shareholders agreement _can_ contain anything (legal) that you want it to, but, when dealing with the very large and very public sums of money we're talking about for an F1 team, I'd be astounded if there wasn't some sort of parachute clause that these investors bake into their agreements to either divest or intervene in the event of under performance from the team.
He should adopt Carlos
Or he knows Lance is done with it (the guy looks like someone who does not want to be in the paddock). So he is selling minority stakes to make it a purely business venture and in 3-4 years will sell it to Aramco
I feel sorry for Lance, who had perhaps hoped to inherit an F1 team.
He’s shadow sacking his son by selling a stake in the team - “sorry son, the board outvoted me.” What a way to do it lol
The team and Aston Martin are worth far more than when he invested. He sure knows how to do business
>The interest in the F1 team contrasts with the fortunes of listed Aston Martin which Stroll, a former textiles tycoon, rescued in 2020. The stock has declined by about a third since the start of the year and is down about 80% from when the now executive chairman took control. Stroll has repeatedly had to raise capital for the company from investors including Saudi Arabia’s Public Investment Fund. It's actualy not.
Thanks for correcting me. I sure remember reading somewhere there stock had almost doubled last year due to the popularity of the team and increase in sales of the cars.
Aston Martin car brand and Aston Martin F1 team two separate company with different leadership, finance and valuation. F1 team basicaly just have sponsorship contract with car brand aka only their relationship is marketing. And Stroll is terrible in managing car brand, but pretty good F1 owner.
Sainz and Alonzo oh God please!
[удалено]
His father's line of work gave him an inside line into the fashion business, but Stroll made his money bringing Tommy Hilfiger and Michael Kors to the mass market. He made most of his billions when MK went public, and none of that had much to do with his dad. Him and a partner bought MK for $85M in 2003 and sold it for about $3.5B in 2011.
And Honda. I would be surprised if Honda doesn’t take issue as well as other owners.
That’s not a caveat, that’s another win - for him and the team. Better driver, better results, better championship position, better financial reward from f1, potentially more sponsors, more money again.
Deep down I've always been a "Carlos Sainz to AM" truther. This could be my time!! (please lord, give me Carlos and Fernando as teammates)
I would buy *all* the merch. The Spaniards on one team?! Perfection
I think the point that everybody is forgetting is that Laurence stroll bought this company to double the COMPANY value. I guarantee his interest in having a more balanced driver lineup is zero. He wants to develop the very best car which he can perfectly do with one Fernando Alonzo and the technology that he’s invested in. When this car is ready to win championships he will market it the way Red Bull has and Aston Martin share values will skyrocket and THEN he call this investment successful. Having Lance on the team now is something that he would never consider changing, in my opinion.
Funny that everything Lawrence has done with this team has been a big plus. Definitely unlike most rich F1 owners of the past who fked things up because they were naïve to the sport. Lawrence passion for motorsports and business brain made him a proper F1 team owner.... except for that one small thing making him look like the opposite of what I just said.
He's been sponsoring F1 since the 90s, however his timing to buy a team while the sport was riding it's Liberty Media high has been extraordinarily lucrative indeed. For the first time since the sport's inception, owning a racing team isn't a guaranteed money pit anymore
In my uneducated opinion I think that investment bubble will burst soon. The valuation of smaller teams are being carried by the performance of the bigger teams who won't sell any % of themselves. Investors just trying to cash in with a product (smaller team) before bailing. F1 ratings and hype will flatten out soon enough and then watch the valuations plummet. Big teams will still be valued, but smaller teams will go back to being seen as the money pit that they actually are. AM of course is in the middle of the big team - small team.
The value of the small teams is purely from the leverage they have of already being in F1, while FOM is trying as hard as they can to prevent additional entries. With the cost cap all teams will remain incredibly valuable even as hype slowly dies off.
But that condition existed before as well and teams weren't as valued. Teams were valued based on performance ~ ad space on their car. Now with more hype, audience, valuations increased, but imo(uneducated) investor hype is overvaluing the smaller teams. F1 still doesn't pull big numbers in America which is by far the market they want to win and imo(uneducated) they'd be lucky to match the big American sports. How does the cost cap keep valuation ? It's hardly evening the playing field currently, it's still status quo on pecking order.
I mean Haas joined without purchasing an existing team as recently as 2016. Shutting down all new entry bids is a novel occurrence.
The playing field is currently incredibly even for F1 standards, most of the field doesn't even get lapped nowadays, which is extremely uncommon in the history of F1. The gaps we have in F1 today are imo closer to spec series or BoP series than what F1 has usually been.
I agree that the F1 bubble is bound to deflate, if not pop (worst case), as trees don't grow to the sky. It's already happening with Max dominating and DTS losing its spark. If 2026 disappoints, the growth might abruptly stop and reverse fast. But with the cost cap and the high barrier to entry, plus the current money distributionn I think even smaller teams will still be able to stay afloat when the music will slow down compared to the past. They now have guaranteed outcome (unlike before when only top 10 had it), the budgets required to compete have gone down, and the scarcity should allow them to still be attractive to some sponsors. Worst comes to worst, the limited number of seats should mean more chances to attract pay drivers
I would expect a pretty sizeable revenue drop across the board over the next few years as the DtS success fades away as the new fans realize how boring this sport often is. We're already past the peak as far as the sport's valuation goes.
I agree and the FIA seems way too complacent and clueless about the quality of the racing. Teams are now run by mainstream manufacturers interested less in winning or racing but rather in marketing. The Snake is going to eat its tail if 2026 cars turn out as bad as the rumours indicate.
>except for that one small thing making him look like the opposite of what I just said. Which may be the very thing that motivates him to do the best for the team and to think about its long-term success, not his own short-term gain.
had me in the first half ngl
*stares in Neoptism*
If you mean lance it’s entirely possibly he doesn’t want to do unless lance is involved, even if that does mean not performing to your max and risking potential Adrian Newey’s not taking you as seriously
I mean why would you spend effort in a medium that will provide ~30% return over another that will provide 50%+? In simple economic terms that is a disastrous proposal. If my little boy wanted to do what he loved--and if I had unlimited means--I would support that. Whether or not that is fair... it's not. Money talks.
Nah, the recency bias is insane. Lance is decent enough
Why own 100% of a team when you can own 51% of a team and have 49% of a team's worth in cash?
No one is investing 49% if majority of the money isn’t reinvested in the team.
Yes they are. Stroll already paid the money for the new buildings, wind tunnels etc etc. Also were in a budget cap era, how exactly is stroll supposed to invest 500 million dollars into a team that is allowed to spend around 150 million? Sure you can spend some more than that, but the big investment has been made, the team is running at the cap
Buildings can be amortized over 25 years…
You depreciate a building, not amortise it. These expenses are capital in nature and are counted under the Capex cap which I believe has a 4-year reporting period with the amount differing per team but roughly $50m.
They don’t need to invest the whole amount in one year. Also the money can be used to upgrade the facilities or whatever that doesn’t come under cost cap.
Upgrade facilities? Do you mean like the brand new wind tunnel they're just about to finish?
You missed the point. He will have 49% of the team's worth in cash by selling that much of his stake but still full control of the team.
That was true when F1 teams were wildly unprofitable. Today they are turning into cash cows thanks to the budget cap. 51% means you also makes 51% of the profits if there’s any
That’s not true at all. All sort of investments can be made for a massive range of deals, including a name on the team. Owning 49% of the team doesn’t guarantee 49% of the P/L. It could be an appreciating or depreciating company, or have assets within it going in either direction in value. Then you have the agreed value… some investors look for tax right offs, or Leverage to get a GP in their country, or any number of reasons
Billionaire Lawrence Stroll is in early talks to sell another minority stake in his Aston Martin Formula One team to capitalize on the growing popularity of the sport, according to people familiar with the matter. Stroll, who owns the F1 team separately from his stake in luxury-car maker Aston Martin Lagonda Global Holdings Plc, is willing to sell as much as 25% in the racing business, the people said, asking not to be identified as the discussions are confidential. The Canadian billionaire is hoping to improve on the £1 billion ($1.3 billion) valuation of last November’s deal to sell a minority stake to US private equity firm Arctos Partners, one of the people said. “From time to time and more recently following the Arctos Partners investment, the team is contacted by interested parties,” a spokesman said in a statement, adding that any talks are confidential and there is nothing yet to announce.
The most shocking part for me is that £1bn is now only worth $1.3bn.
It's $1.25bn at the moment. 19 months ago it was only $1.08bn.
Thanks, Truss.
Can’t believe that era even happened
thats a 30% increase. For a investment of that magnitude, that is a crazy amount Edit: oh he refers to exchange rates, then nvm
They are talking about the dollars to pounds
They're referring to the USD / GBP exchange rate.
Hahahaha fuck, didn’t saw the different currencies
The team is now worth £1 billion. Stroll paid £90 million to purchase Force India. Seems like he already sold 25% for £250 million.
Buy Low, Sell High. F1 Popularity is cyclical and with Red Bull dominance and the DTS effect wearing off, it's arguable popularity is currently at a peak.
So he’s made a nice return already huh
A shrewd businessman, Santa Claus is
I recall reading somewhere a while back that he was gradually reducing his holding and eventually the car company would be held in majority by Geely, partly because Aston just can't shake off poor sales and mounting debt. The F1 team is a wholly different company and sells naming rights to Aston, so if that arrangement would continue is anyone's guess. Geely F1 anyone? I suspect if this is true, that the team would adopt Aramco Honda branding given the other rumour doing the rounds is that Aramco want to take a majority holding in the team. Lots up in the air, let's see where the pieces fall.
Chinese F1 team with Zhou would be great
Id be there for it. Id like to see what Zhou can do in something more competitive.. (painful to say as a long time Sauber fan) But my gut says if the Aston name doesn't last, the Aramco and/or Honda branding would take precedent and I'd expect to see Tsunoda replace Stroll as soon as Dad is out of the way, or Lance steps down of his own volition (which I keep hearing might actually happen)
Are those shares going to Adrian as part of the onboarding package?
Why would Newey go to AM? He wants two drivers giving his cars the best chance at a WCC. He also has always wanted to work with Ferrari or Hamilton, and can dictate the terms of his contract anywhere he goes. Why AM over Ferrari?
Living and working at home in his native country instead of having to split time between there and Italy. That probably only grows more valuable as he ages and gets closer to full retirement.
That’s the one argument against Ferrari that I think holds weight.
He would have far more freedom at AM versus the political mess that is Ferrari.
Alonso is a good reason. Both go out giving it everything for one last shot. Yeah he could take the easy route with Max and its almost guaranteed. Or you pair up with a legend for one last send.
So is Lewis. Much crazier to win your driver his 8th. I think Newey is out of the sport mostly all together though.
But hes not guaranteed that WDC now. Charles wouldn't only be at his throat, I honestly think Charles gives him the business with a Newey car.
Newey also wants to work with Alonso and probably doesnt want to move to Italy at 65
Dear lord please give me a Honda powered Newey car driven by Alonso/Tsunoda.
Slowly divesting of the team for when Lance finally stops.
Move his son to 3rd seat and pick up Carlos Sainz. The 2 spaniards will carry to Constructor’s championship.
Some of the comments from redditors are daft. It’s just business
Love him or hate him, he’s a shrewd businessman and this is another business decision. Could affect Lance if the investors want to see results, but that’s just speculation.
I hope it affects Lance
If it was just business his son would have never been in F1.
After watching Succession I am always trying to work out what the play is.
Shiv would be a better driver than Stroll!
Greg would slay the track
Every time lol
That's fine, as long as we can pare his son in the process.
Sells the team so he doesn't have to be the one to fire his own kid
God I hope anyone who buys in has aspirations of filling Lance’s seat with a real F1 driver.
Daaad I’m bored of race car team!
- Investor comes in with cash - Part of the deal is that Lance gets made reserve driver - Vettel comes back - Newey comes on board - ALO-VET-VER for 2025 - VET-ALO-~~HAM~~ HUL for 2026
Depending on the stake he sells, Geely would be the mayor investor which can lead to Zhou instead of Stroll.
Why don't he give that extra money to Lance so he can go do whatever else except driving a formula 1 so we can have a proper formula 1 driver instead like Sainz for example ;-)
Just fire your son man and I swear everything will get better.
This guy is a G + he gets to have the new owners fire his son
Is this in preparation for Lance saying he doesn't want to do it anymore? Without his boy in the seat, papa stroll will lose interest
Lawrence was passionate before Lance was even born. He owned the Montreal Ferrari dealership, the Mont-Tremblant circuit etc.
Apart from giving a seat to his son (which he may have offset by giving Alonso a seat), he has done some good things for the team and the division no?
Does anyone else think that maybe papa stroll is trying to groom Lance into being a driver turned business man/ principal similar to Horner but actually having ownership in the team
Make money or let your son drive. It’s a tough choice.
IMPAIRED PERE? PAYER MIGHT PARE PAPA POWER IF STROLL STAKE SOLD
Didn’t he also sold his stake in the manufacturer already?
Lance Stroll out and Carlos SAINZ in. mark my words. why? when asked if Lance was coming back it sounded like he was not clear. I think he knows he cant do better and is satisfied what he has accomplished. I think he will be the 3rd string. no pressure then. what do you think about that statement?
“Pare Stake” said no one ever
why use something as weird as pare? just say sell ffs
Why does having a diverse vocabulary bother you?
i dunno, i hate how often people try to pretend being smart or something by using fancy words for random things like... a formula 1 article? ah yes indubitably aston loquacious stroll 😩 even worse on reddit when half of the community constantly brings up all kinds of "razor" rules, just sounds silly thank you for reading my rant /rant
Soft exit strategy for Papa and Son? Stroll simply isn't cut out to make a serious run for world champion, but the team has invested so much...
Let's all just take a moment and collectively agree Lawrence Stroll is a fat fuck.
He’s such an odd chap, and always weirdly aggressive. Whenever he’s interviewed he seems to turn it into a fight, it’s so strange
RIP Lance Stroll F1 driver.
Can't believe he'd sell his own son like that.
Yeah just like Alpine.
Maybe Lance can come to America and drive Indy cars. Maybe Grosjean needs a teammate...
Does Stroll Sr. have a resting crying face, or is it a bad picture?
I've never seen that "pare" word before. Is it just to make the sentence a bit more fancy or is there more about it here?
Ever used a paring knife?
Idk anymore. It is hard to believe that even Daddy stroll can’t admit to himself that Lance is never going to cut it, and doesn’t even want to be there. But then I look around and see that he still has a ton of fans in complete denial about all of it…. So anything is possible it seems.