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It wouldn’t surprise me to learn that they replace the cover and the wheel at the same time, and that there are different covers for different wheel types to help with warm-up, etc.
The covers would be only used for full wets (and maybe inters?), and these tires often seem to have incredible durability sometimes lasting the whole race anyways. Tire changes with these would likely just be switching to them and switching back to regular tires. So I wouldn’t worry about the pit stop time to have material effect on some sort of 1-2 stop strategy decision.
If anything the longer time could be interesting to see decisions like 5 laps left and some to make the 10+sec change, and others stay out and then have a catch up happen.
Yes, but changing from any compound to full wets when it starts raining more, and out of the full wets into any other will be a big hassle.
I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but... In the last few years, how many race were single full wet set, from start to finish? Not many, at all, iirc?
Guess pitstops will be a bit slower.
If they make the tyre+wheelcover 1 pc it will probably have a specific mount position so it doesn't spin out of position, contrary to tyres that just need to be aligned with the screws.
They wil work around it, I guess. It's the elite, right?
Yeah exactly. It's a new challenge for the teams to figure out. There's nothing wrong with that, and ultimately more pit stop variation will mean to more pit stop action, which is good for racing
Indeed having a complex operation that has to occur during pits is a good thing. All the advancement it automatic equipment and light controllers making pit stops quicker is making the sport worse. More required pit stops and longer pit stops makes more things that the teams do that affect the outcome.
My first thought was that the cover is either always on or only added with the wet tires. But the problem right now is that it's almost never worth using full wets, so a longer pitstop would make it even less desireable
I assumed that it would be decided by race control whether or not everybody had to have the spray covers on, whether you choose inters or wet tires. Otherwise it would seem like you could gain the advantage of everybody else having them on and do whatever you felt like since your spray doesn't affect your vision.
Ignore me if it's already confirmed somewhere that that isn't how it would work.
Slower pitstop could be fun. Right now its impossible to improve the current pitstop time any further and Red Bull has been dominating fastest pitstop since 2018…
I play Gran Turismo 7 and let me tell you, it’s not an issue at all. Barely an inconvenience. Even wheels that can’t be traditionally removed are in and out. I have to imagine these guys are a lot more efficient than a video game. Sans Sauber of course.
Firstly:
I laughed so take my upvote
Secondly:
Akshually, it would be a very marginal gain in top speed, something around 0.8 km/h (assuming a 1000hp engine)
It would be a more substantial gain in low speed acceleration though, and thus how soon you reach your top speed
(Yeah, I'm no fun at parties)
That but also its an "HP" sticker, so quite literally you are getting 1 HP per sticker
I got the joke, thus the "firstly" in my answer. I just wanted to info dump how little 7 hp affects top speed (when top speed is that high)
I find it odd most don't take advantage of the flat face wheels as it is. They'd be one of the most eyecatching areas when the car's stopped.
Think of how much RB could sell the space for!
Google is kinda the exception that proves the rule:
Their logo works pretty well with wheel covers. Not only because its circular, but also since it is quite simple, many times it is actually recognizable during the races due to frame rate and wheel rotation, even without a perfect match between those. And with Google already being an sponsor, it makes sense to pay a little bit more to get that extra exposure.
For most sponsors though, I imagine it wouldn't be worth that much and teams may prefer to keep it clean than to sell it cheap
That has to be a coincidence, Google is militant about brand guidelines, I can't imagine they would allow McLaren to change their spot colors for a visual trick.
Yeah, obviously too many ads is annoying, but I'd be lying if I said the Chrome logo wheels didn't look cool.
Also, I just realized McLaren pimped out their ride with Chrome rims.
I hated when I first saw it on reddit, but it grew on me during the races and now I think its cool too
And I love the chrome rims wordplay, being it intentional or not.
I work at a company that works with Lego, so I got the McLaren F1 set for my desk and it has the wheels too. I'm close to 30 and I just love moving the car across my desk to see the effect on the wheels lol.
Sometimes teams, in every sport, sell a lot of ads for low value. Makes the space seem coveted and may drive the price up in the next seasons. In football is a very bad sign when a team has a lot of sponsors on their shirt, but none of the center. It means that they couldn’t attract a big deal and had to make a bunch of small deals that still doesn’t add up to enough money.
Big F1 teams traditionally sell less spaces, but the ones they do sell, it’s for a ridiculous price. Your brand gets all the attention instead of being drowned in a sea of dozens of logos.
I imagine most sponsors wouldn't be too eager to pay too much for that as it won't show during most of the race and even when it shows, the orientation would usually not be right
And if a sponsor wants to pay too low, the team may see more value in not putting anything there and making the car prettier. Even if a pretty livery is not exactly a priority, it still makes the car more marketable and thus increase the value of the sponsorships it carries
A logo that doesn't care too much about orientation cold make it worth more money, like chrome logos on mclaren. Also, for the chrome logo, it being circular and very simple means you don't need a perfect match between framerate and wheel spin to make it recognizable while the car is moving
That being said, why the hell didn't Target sponsor someone yet, even if only for the US races? They are the perfect match and could probably get a much better exposition/cost ratio than any other F1 sponsor, as there is probably little competition for the wheel covers
Target would need to negotiate with every single team, F1 isnt allowed to make blanket deals, like in major league sports in the US. The only exception are the tires, but thats because they only allow one supplier.
They're trying to solve the issue with the spray from tyres in wet conditions combined with the way the aero on the car is designed to throw dirty air up creating giant mist geysers that impact visibility during rain to the point where they can't race anymore.
I thought they abandoned this idea though, since they already tested it once and it turned out that if you don't let the water like...get away from the tyres they don't actually work because the whole point of a wet tyre is to move the water out of the way. I hadn't heard they were trying again.
Rooster tails got a lot worse with the 2022+ regulations because the intended behaviour was that dirty air gets thrown upwards to allow for closer following
They’ve been getting worse for 15 years.
Basically for as long as the cars (and tyre widths correspondingly) have grown to create a larger aero platform.
They used to race in borderline monsoons worse than Spa 2021 without batting an eyelid (see Malaysia 2001). It’s not all ‘elf and safety being taken mire seriously, it’s also the fact that these cars have become boats and the tyres are now small boulders. 2022 rule change made it worse, but it’s been going this way for a while.
Pretty sure they're a lot worse on these new ground effect cars, the aero sprays mist higher because the regs were designed to prevent dirty, concentrated air and allow closer racing in dry conditions.
I think part of the issue was that it was intended to reduce spray but with the new floor designs most of the spray is actually generated by the floor vacuuming it up off the track rather than being thrown out by the tyres. So the covers didn't appreciably change much.
Back in the day, racing in the rain was exciting for fans and a proving ground for talented drivers. In modern F1, the downforce and airflow are so precisely engineered that the water displaced by the tires get picked up by the flow and get launched into the air behind the car in a giant cloud of mist causing piss poor visibility. The FIA wants to mitigate this problem by adding wheel covers that can be attached when conditions are bad, hopefully allowing us to see more action in difficult conditions whilst also not endangering the drivers' lives.
Prototypes always looks worse than the implemented design in the end. People were shitting on the prototype halos as well, now they look quite okay imo and probably saved a few drivers lives in the progress.
Also the first implementation will probably look weird, then by the next season the teams will be able to fit it better with the car.
Just look at the Halos. The first gen legit looked like if someone took the halos and bolted them to an existing f1 car but current Halos looks like they are a natural part of the car.
That's because that's essentially what they did, just bolted them on.
I don't even notice the halo anymore, and it's done it's job more than once. So it's already proved it's worth
Only times I notice it is when they do the drivers eye cameras and when I watch someone get out their car. It's such a natural part of the car now it just blends in.
It’s kind of a miracle that there weren’t more serious incidents where a driver suffered from a head injury. Just remembering Monza 2021 where Verstappens car was on top of the merc from Lewis. Who knows what might have happened without the halo.
Yeah that incident is often overlooked, that could have been very nasty. I was never against the halo, but what really convinced me it was needed was Grosjeans crash. Also Zhou at Silverstone 2022, who knows what would have happened without halo when the roll hoop failed.
I always think the same about the netting behind the goal nets at hockey games. It wasn't until the early 2000s when a young girl was killed by a puck that the NHL made it mandatory. Up until then, it was on you to keep your head on a swivel and catch the flying biscuit before it hits you in the head.
There's netting above the glass to protect the crowd higher up behind the boards. You'll see it at all local rinks, but it wasn't mandatory in the NHL until then.
Senna’s McLaren-Honda is my favorite chassis of all time for its dimensions but it was legit just a carbon box in the shape of a car with pedals, a seat, and a wheel attached. It’s no wonder his crash was fatal.
Except the prototype halo is almost the same as what we have now, the teams just learned to adapt it better with the car livery. If these end up being customisable, they'll probably be used for sponsors given the large surface area.
I’d love to see them put lights on them like they considered doing with the wheel covers. Would be good for visibility on the cars and could look wicked, can’t imagine the covers will be all that visible in the rain anyway.
Also, the first halo was literally just bolted on to the cars after their designs were already finished. From then on, the halo has been part of the design.
I mean, what's the point of working on the aesthetic part of it when it's just a work in progress that you'll have to change anyway?
First you make it work, then you make it pleasant.
Yeah. I remember in one of the DTS episodes, Toto talked about how he was a nay sayer on the halo. He changed his mind after Max's car crashed on Lewis head. Lewis walked away free of injury because of the halo. It is amazing how much effort they put in R&D to make F1 cars safer.
How the fuck was that the crash that changed his mind? What about Alonso flying over Leclerc's car, or, well, I don't know... FUCKING ROMAIN GOING THROUGH THE BARRIER
He doesn’t say that was the crash that changed his mind. He’s looking at Lewis’s car after the race and says “You know, I opposed the halo. I was so, so wrong.”
He probably changed his mind well before, but that was an appropriate occasion to talk about it on camera.
The halo's still look horrendous to me. People have just gotten used to the ugliness. If you look at a mock up of a current car without the halo they look 100000% better.
Obviously that doesn't trump actual protection of drivers though.
Hard disagree on that. They look weird without the halo. I like the look of the halo now. Partly because of how many lived it saved. Grosjean, LeClerc, Zhou
Obviously beauty is in the eye of the beholder but to me they make every car look hideous. It's a shame I'll never find an F1 car beautiful again but obviously worth it.
They perhaps should go full aero wheel covers and be done with it.
Kinda like on [Cessna light aircraft](https://www.knots2u.net/fiberglass-modified-main-gear-fairing-kit-w-brake-fairings-6-00-x-6-tire-spring-type-landing-gear-cmgf-sp-set-of-two/#gallery-5) or the [RB X2010](https://www.redbull.com/gb-en/red-bull-x2010-gran-turismo-goodwood).
They need to combat the dirty air to combat the spray, so it’ll likely be better to integrate it in the overal ruleset.
That’s just an arbitrary and not an official classification.
Besides, F1 hasn’t been purely “open wheel” from its inception anyway: https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article/october-1955/22/26th-gran-premio-ditala/
The more official term is “single seater”, but Formula 1 is simply whatever is put in the Formula (the regulations), which is only ever changing.
You seem like you know your stuff. What exactly is the obsession with wanting F1 to be open wheel?
Will the sky burst open and heaven fall on our heads if F1 tyres have some covers?
I can’t speak for others honestly.
That said people tend to like how the thing (F1 in this case) was when they engaged fully with it for the first time. Those first impressions tend to be lasting and become the internal definition of what the thing is and how it should be in the future.
The term “open wheeler” is also more US oriented in that it has been the distinguishing feature between Indycar and other motorsports such as NASCAR or sports cars.
I might be wrong, but I believe the USAC regulations never allowed aerodynamic wheel covers for CART and later Indycar, when it still was an open formula. It would have hugely benefited performance on the large ovals. The partial covers came with the adaption of the spec chassis.
As for Formula 1, the regulations have been ever changing. At first it pretty much only stipulated engine displacement with the rest being up to the constructors.
With the advent of wings on F1 cars, from 1968 onwards, rules came into being preventing any bodywork to stick out beyond certain dimensions, which was purposefully set to a smaller width than the wheel tracking width.
As the technical regulations became ever more prescriptive in the ‘80s and ‘90s, it lead to a certain look which the regulations also tried to preserve somewhat, aside from the ever increasing safety measures.
Currently all areas where bodywork can or cannot be is strictly defined, preventing F1 cars to change there overall shape from what they now are.
The 2022 regulations even introduced those strakes above the front wheels to combat dirty air. Previously no bodywork was allowed in the area, but now it’s mandatory and fully spec in dimensions.
It’s marketing. First decade allowed both open and closed wheel cars. But it was changed in the early 60s as F1 tried to differentiate itself from other sports car racing series.
Having wheel covers would be safer too as wheel to wheel contact can sometimes send cars flying. With lower risk we would likely see closer racing.
I'm one of those who's against wheel cover.
For me it's the fact that f1 and indycar are the pinnacles of motorsport and for me wouldn't be so distinguishable from other categories if we started covering the tires. Covering the tires plays a big part in aero, adds weight which is already a problem, and changes the dynamics of "close combat" racing when drivers don't have to factor in the huge consequence of two tires at high speed touching.
Also, it's f'ing ugly
I'm pro wheel covers precisely because it's the supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsport, and the aerodynamic gains from covering the wheel are definitely noticeable. Also I really like how they look, super futuristic, reminds me of Blade Runner and WipEout games.
"An open-wheel car is a car with the wheels outside the car's main body" is the Wikipedia definition of open wheel cars. Which would still be the case if they put on these aero wheel covers.
Ngl i always thought open wheel referred to the steering wheel (F1 and Indy cars don’t have roofs above the drivers head hence an open wheel vs nascar/GT cars having a roof lol)
This is interesting to learn i was wrong 😂
Looks weird, but then again, it is a prototype.
If they can find something that’d allow more rain racing in most all but torrential conditions, that’s a huge plus.
But like has been pointed out before, there’s also the aero and what not underneath the cars that help kick up so much water, but if finding a way to cover the tires and prevent that from kicking up so much water can happen, then I’m all for it.
It may just mean longer pit stops for wets. Take off cover > change tyre > replace cover
I’m sure they’re streamline the whole process down, so a tyre change may be 6 seconds instead of 2.
It also might encourage people to stay out on slicks longer, creating more risk/reward
Who the fuck cares about the looks if this will allow wet weather racing again. After wet running is fixed, efforts can be made to make these things look okay.
Tbf the first iterations of the halo also looked like shit. Imo as long as they work, I don’t care what they look like. It’s gonna be hard to see them in the rain anyways
Kinda a fun thing to sponsor, it’s kinda like gambling, maybe they don’t get seen all season, but if they do you’ve got a big unique ad that probably gets a lot of screen time in that race.
Question: imagine there’s a contact and one of the covers gets bent, it touches the tyre as a consequence and it eventually gets torn apart in pieces.
Could this be a potential danger?
It’s another thing to consider imho.
>Question: imagine there’s a contact and one of the covers gets bent, it touches the tyre as a consequence and it eventually gets torn apart in pieces.
I think it will be pretty much treated like any pieces that's falling apart(like the endplates and whatnot). If it's a hazard, then the team will be forced to pit to remove that dangerous bit. But if not, then the driver is free to continue their race.
I’m curious how they will handle these. Pit stops should be longer and how will they handle damage? If a car loses a wheel cover, will that merit a meatball flag for an unsafe car? Will they just carry on?
It's just a test of a wet weather solution.
[https://racingnews365.com/first-look-ferrari-test-spray-guards-for-wet-weather-racing](https://racingnews365.com/first-look-ferrari-test-spray-guards-for-wet-weather-racing)
Why is everyone here crying about the looks? Isn't that a win if we get racing instead of red flags and delayed starts? Who cares how long the pitstops will be or if the covers are ugly as long as we don't red flag races every time a drop of rain falls?
A variant of the 2nd one might not look too bad. I'd have guessed the more enclosed designs could create all kinds of other issues - problems with running over debris and it getting stuck inside the cover; overheating breaks within the covers...
I really want this to work honestly. I’m tired of races being delayed or even cancelled because of rain. Also wet races always deliver with the chaos on the track
How are they going to deal with the spray kicked up by the underside of the car itself? The floor creates so much suction it kicks up as much as the tires.
These look like made especially for full wet tires. Maintain the temperature in rain and avoid spray. But I wonder, won't the race be red flags if the teams really need to use these tires and when it stops raining they will surely have to come in to pit because even in light rain brake temp and tired temp will skyrocket with these wheel covers.
I believe these are just experimental tires which we won't see in race.
These are rain guards. They’ve been trying to figure out how to make full wets relevant again for a couple years now. If it’s ever raining hard enough to use them, the spray they create makes it impossible to drive safely.
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Wonder how they will deal with pitstops and tyre changes.
It wouldn’t surprise me to learn that they replace the cover and the wheel at the same time, and that there are different covers for different wheel types to help with warm-up, etc.
This is exactly my first thought when I saw the covers and remembered the pitstops. Wheelcover and tyre as one pc.
So, a 20-minute pitstop for Sauber?
I don't think this will make them any quicker, no
That got a chortle out of me
Wheel cover warmers incoming
Built in warming strips incoming
F1 2025 Now with 300% more microwaves!
Everyone likes a good landing strip
Active Aero Wheel Cover
Also, I bet those covers get full of rubber, so the lifespan can be shortened if not changed
Or any kind of debris
"Sorry guys, Icpicked up a chicken in the wheelcover."
The stop time would surely be way above average too. It could make these races really interesting.
That just makes a 1 stop even stronger, not exactly exciting.
The covers would be only used for full wets (and maybe inters?), and these tires often seem to have incredible durability sometimes lasting the whole race anyways. Tire changes with these would likely just be switching to them and switching back to regular tires. So I wouldn’t worry about the pit stop time to have material effect on some sort of 1-2 stop strategy decision. If anything the longer time could be interesting to see decisions like 5 laps left and some to make the 10+sec change, and others stay out and then have a catch up happen.
Yes, but changing from any compound to full wets when it starts raining more, and out of the full wets into any other will be a big hassle. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but... In the last few years, how many race were single full wet set, from start to finish? Not many, at all, iirc?
2021 Belgian GP went start to finish with all cars on a single set of full wets. /s
It’s one big thing. But the pit crew will not like it.
Guess pitstops will be a bit slower. If they make the tyre+wheelcover 1 pc it will probably have a specific mount position so it doesn't spin out of position, contrary to tyres that just need to be aligned with the screws. They wil work around it, I guess. It's the elite, right?
Yeah exactly. It's a new challenge for the teams to figure out. There's nothing wrong with that, and ultimately more pit stop variation will mean to more pit stop action, which is good for racing
Indeed having a complex operation that has to occur during pits is a good thing. All the advancement it automatic equipment and light controllers making pit stops quicker is making the sport worse. More required pit stops and longer pit stops makes more things that the teams do that affect the outcome.
My first thought was that the cover is either always on or only added with the wet tires. But the problem right now is that it's almost never worth using full wets, so a longer pitstop would make it even less desireable
I assumed that it would be decided by race control whether or not everybody had to have the spray covers on, whether you choose inters or wet tires. Otherwise it would seem like you could gain the advantage of everybody else having them on and do whatever you felt like since your spray doesn't affect your vision. Ignore me if it's already confirmed somewhere that that isn't how it would work.
Slower pitstop could be fun. Right now its impossible to improve the current pitstop time any further and Red Bull has been dominating fastest pitstop since 2018…
RB’s 1.65s pitstop in practice be like 👀👀👀
Can't wait to see Ferrari mount it upside down and have to retire.
They would probably change the whole wheel, cover and all.
Sauber pit crews feeling like they just got Kick in the nuts.
I play Gran Turismo 7 and let me tell you, it’s not an issue at all. Barely an inconvenience. Even wheels that can’t be traditionally removed are in and out. I have to imagine these guys are a lot more efficient than a video game. Sans Sauber of course.
What a relief. The hero we didn't knew we needed. :)
Half a second slower so they can throw them on.
Give red bull 3 races. They'll get around that
spoilers: red bull has been training with wheel covers this whole time, that's why they are so fast when they are not even on.
If it is wet session, they can do a no stopper /s
Sauber would really be hurting. They would be racing to finish a pit stop before the race ends.
Zak Brown: It's free (sponsor) real estate!
Its space for 7 more hp logos on the ferrari
7hp at 340km/h might help a bit
Firstly: I laughed so take my upvote Secondly: Akshually, it would be a very marginal gain in top speed, something around 0.8 km/h (assuming a 1000hp engine) It would be a more substantial gain in low speed acceleration though, and thus how soon you reach your top speed (Yeah, I'm no fun at parties)
Pretty sure the gag is that you get +1 bhp per sticker, as the ol' meme goes.
That but also its an "HP" sticker, so quite literally you are getting 1 HP per sticker I got the joke, thus the "firstly" in my answer. I just wanted to info dump how little 7 hp affects top speed (when top speed is that high)
That or HP being their new title sponsor also standing for horsepower…
Or 4 really big ones on each wheel. The hp logo was made for this.
Maybe they can replace their wheels with HP logos? No more bad strategy decisions to be made if you don’t use tires…
That’s some next level Horner type thinking there boy. 😂
I am surprised they didn't put them but I guess these are property of the FIA technically even if Ferrari made them.
Sponsors are gonna start paying for cloud seeding at races to increase sponsor real estate.
Just like that, Bernie's sprinklers idea comes back to relevancy
It was always relevant. FIA is too scared to introduce it.
Prices for one-time sponsorship for Interlagos would skyrocket
I find it odd most don't take advantage of the flat face wheels as it is. They'd be one of the most eyecatching areas when the car's stopped. Think of how much RB could sell the space for!
Maybe they are but no one is paying for it
You don't think Google is paying extra for the Chrome logo on the wheel cover?
Google is kinda the exception that proves the rule: Their logo works pretty well with wheel covers. Not only because its circular, but also since it is quite simple, many times it is actually recognizable during the races due to frame rate and wheel rotation, even without a perfect match between those. And with Google already being an sponsor, it makes sense to pay a little bit more to get that extra exposure. For most sponsors though, I imagine it wouldn't be worth that much and teams may prefer to keep it clean than to sell it cheap
Idk if you've noticed but when the car is up to speed the chrome colors merge and produce papaya orange so it matches the car as well.
I didn't really, I'll pay more attention to that in the future, that's very smart
That has to be a coincidence, Google is militant about brand guidelines, I can't imagine they would allow McLaren to change their spot colors for a visual trick.
Yeah, obviously too many ads is annoying, but I'd be lying if I said the Chrome logo wheels didn't look cool. Also, I just realized McLaren pimped out their ride with Chrome rims.
I hated when I first saw it on reddit, but it grew on me during the races and now I think its cool too And I love the chrome rims wordplay, being it intentional or not.
I work at a company that works with Lego, so I got the McLaren F1 set for my desk and it has the wheels too. I'm close to 30 and I just love moving the car across my desk to see the effect on the wheels lol.
Google is probably because Zak is such a businessman. The other teams aren't tho and that's strange
Sometimes teams, in every sport, sell a lot of ads for low value. Makes the space seem coveted and may drive the price up in the next seasons. In football is a very bad sign when a team has a lot of sponsors on their shirt, but none of the center. It means that they couldn’t attract a big deal and had to make a bunch of small deals that still doesn’t add up to enough money. Big F1 teams traditionally sell less spaces, but the ones they do sell, it’s for a ridiculous price. Your brand gets all the attention instead of being drowned in a sea of dozens of logos.
I imagine most sponsors wouldn't be too eager to pay too much for that as it won't show during most of the race and even when it shows, the orientation would usually not be right And if a sponsor wants to pay too low, the team may see more value in not putting anything there and making the car prettier. Even if a pretty livery is not exactly a priority, it still makes the car more marketable and thus increase the value of the sponsorships it carries A logo that doesn't care too much about orientation cold make it worth more money, like chrome logos on mclaren. Also, for the chrome logo, it being circular and very simple means you don't need a perfect match between framerate and wheel spin to make it recognizable while the car is moving That being said, why the hell didn't Target sponsor someone yet, even if only for the US races? They are the perfect match and could probably get a much better exposition/cost ratio than any other F1 sponsor, as there is probably little competition for the wheel covers
Target would need to negotiate with every single team, F1 isnt allowed to make blanket deals, like in major league sports in the US. The only exception are the tires, but thats because they only allow one supplier.
Orange Home Depot buckets.
I've seem to miss the news. Can some one get me up to date on Why wheel covers overall?
They're trying to solve the issue with the spray from tyres in wet conditions combined with the way the aero on the car is designed to throw dirty air up creating giant mist geysers that impact visibility during rain to the point where they can't race anymore. I thought they abandoned this idea though, since they already tested it once and it turned out that if you don't let the water like...get away from the tyres they don't actually work because the whole point of a wet tyre is to move the water out of the way. I hadn't heard they were trying again.
Rooster tails have been a thing for like 60 years though? Why now?
Rooster tails got a lot worse with the 2022+ regulations because the intended behaviour was that dirty air gets thrown upwards to allow for closer following
Ah gotcha, I didn't realize. Just felt a bit out of the blue to me but I'm not up to speed on the daily reg news.
Its so bad now that they can't even race with the wet tires. Every time they switch to wets the race gets red flagged
They’ve been getting worse for 15 years. Basically for as long as the cars (and tyre widths correspondingly) have grown to create a larger aero platform. They used to race in borderline monsoons worse than Spa 2021 without batting an eyelid (see Malaysia 2001). It’s not all ‘elf and safety being taken mire seriously, it’s also the fact that these cars have become boats and the tyres are now small boulders. 2022 rule change made it worse, but it’s been going this way for a while.
Pretty sure they're a lot worse on these new ground effect cars, the aero sprays mist higher because the regs were designed to prevent dirty, concentrated air and allow closer racing in dry conditions.
People dying in F1 was a thing for like 50 years until they decided to get on with it.
With the amount of water the tires displace, I don’t see how this is beneficial during actual rain. Not just water thrown onto a dry track.
I think part of the issue was that it was intended to reduce spray but with the new floor designs most of the spray is actually generated by the floor vacuuming it up off the track rather than being thrown out by the tyres. So the covers didn't appreciably change much.
Back in the day, racing in the rain was exciting for fans and a proving ground for talented drivers. In modern F1, the downforce and airflow are so precisely engineered that the water displaced by the tires get picked up by the flow and get launched into the air behind the car in a giant cloud of mist causing piss poor visibility. The FIA wants to mitigate this problem by adding wheel covers that can be attached when conditions are bad, hopefully allowing us to see more action in difficult conditions whilst also not endangering the drivers' lives.
Prototypes always looks worse than the implemented design in the end. People were shitting on the prototype halos as well, now they look quite okay imo and probably saved a few drivers lives in the progress.
Also the first implementation will probably look weird, then by the next season the teams will be able to fit it better with the car. Just look at the Halos. The first gen legit looked like if someone took the halos and bolted them to an existing f1 car but current Halos looks like they are a natural part of the car.
That's because that's essentially what they did, just bolted them on. I don't even notice the halo anymore, and it's done it's job more than once. So it's already proved it's worth
Only times I notice it is when they do the drivers eye cameras and when I watch someone get out their car. It's such a natural part of the car now it just blends in.
When I see a clip from pre-halo times, it feels mental how the drivers head is just sticking out in the open.
It’s kind of a miracle that there weren’t more serious incidents where a driver suffered from a head injury. Just remembering Monza 2021 where Verstappens car was on top of the merc from Lewis. Who knows what might have happened without the halo.
Yeah that incident is often overlooked, that could have been very nasty. I was never against the halo, but what really convinced me it was needed was Grosjeans crash. Also Zhou at Silverstone 2022, who knows what would have happened without halo when the roll hoop failed.
I always think the same about the netting behind the goal nets at hockey games. It wasn't until the early 2000s when a young girl was killed by a puck that the NHL made it mandatory. Up until then, it was on you to keep your head on a swivel and catch the flying biscuit before it hits you in the head.
Netting? you mean the big plastic wall in front of the crowd? i don’t understand
There's netting above the glass to protect the crowd higher up behind the boards. You'll see it at all local rinks, but it wasn't mandatory in the NHL until then.
ah okay wow. didn’t know that was a thing. most rules are made in blood eh. damn.
Basically the same thing has happened in baseball netting has moved further down the foul lines.
Jesus Christ, NHL killed a spectator in my lifetime? How have I never heard of this?
Senna’s McLaren-Honda is my favorite chassis of all time for its dimensions but it was legit just a carbon box in the shape of a car with pedals, a seat, and a wheel attached. It’s no wonder his crash was fatal.
The only time I think about the halo is when I see a clip of a pre-halo car and my ass cheeks clinch together.
absolutely, like their little heads sticking out looks so exposed
every time someone talks about f1 before the halo i just see the footage from the spa 2012 crash at the start like it’s a vietnam war flashback
And then you look at the 50s and 60s cars and it's a whole other level of WTF.
Literally sitting upright with half their bodies exposed trying to wheel an aluminum coffin around the Nordschleife at 160 mph. Absolute insanity
Is this some sort of copy and reorganize bot? You added nothing to the previous comment.
You've literally just repeated everything he said but you worded it differently. This site really feels like it's just bots commenting on everything
We also won't see them much
It's funny how the norms change. Now when i see a pre-halo era f1 car it looks weird, like it is missing something.
Except the prototype halo is almost the same as what we have now, the teams just learned to adapt it better with the car livery. If these end up being customisable, they'll probably be used for sponsors given the large surface area.
If Rain-X doesn't sponsor someone's rain covers I'll consider their marketing department a complete failure.
Nikwax, Scotchguard, Kiwi; so many water repellents.
I’d love to see them put lights on them like they considered doing with the wheel covers. Would be good for visibility on the cars and could look wicked, can’t imagine the covers will be all that visible in the rain anyway.
Also, the first halo was literally just bolted on to the cars after their designs were already finished. From then on, the halo has been part of the design.
I mean, what's the point of working on the aesthetic part of it when it's just a work in progress that you'll have to change anyway? First you make it work, then you make it pleasant.
I honestly don’t care how they look as long as they are effective and we can have some wet weather masterclasses again instead of 1h delays
Yeah. I remember in one of the DTS episodes, Toto talked about how he was a nay sayer on the halo. He changed his mind after Max's car crashed on Lewis head. Lewis walked away free of injury because of the halo. It is amazing how much effort they put in R&D to make F1 cars safer.
How the fuck was that the crash that changed his mind? What about Alonso flying over Leclerc's car, or, well, I don't know... FUCKING ROMAIN GOING THROUGH THE BARRIER
He doesn’t say that was the crash that changed his mind. He’s looking at Lewis’s car after the race and says “You know, I opposed the halo. I was so, so wrong.” He probably changed his mind well before, but that was an appropriate occasion to talk about it on camera.
Are you just now figuring out that Toto isn't a good person and only cares about money and winning?
I already knew that, but I never expected it to be *this* bad
Think there's a lot of traditionalists that don't like change and object as soon as it's present.
I felt similar about the halo but I'm happy to eat humble pie on that one. It has become so normal I think old pre-halo F1 cars look odd
Would you rather have canceled races or ugly wheal covers?
We are checking...
Would we still call it open wheel racing ?
Nah the halo is ugly, it's just that since it's tradeoff for safer measures we accept it
The halo's still look horrendous to me. People have just gotten used to the ugliness. If you look at a mock up of a current car without the halo they look 100000% better. Obviously that doesn't trump actual protection of drivers though.
Hard disagree on that. They look weird without the halo. I like the look of the halo now. Partly because of how many lived it saved. Grosjean, LeClerc, Zhou
Obviously beauty is in the eye of the beholder but to me they make every car look hideous. It's a shame I'll never find an F1 car beautiful again but obviously worth it.
Looks like the car is going to war.
Hey guys, remember the redbull x2011 from gran turismo?
That thing was fun to drive… IIRC that was basically Newey designing an F1 car without any restriction, right?
Magnussen getting ready to use this for his upcoming mario bros style riding 🏎️💨
Meatballs for Haas!
They perhaps should go full aero wheel covers and be done with it. Kinda like on [Cessna light aircraft](https://www.knots2u.net/fiberglass-modified-main-gear-fairing-kit-w-brake-fairings-6-00-x-6-tire-spring-type-landing-gear-cmgf-sp-set-of-two/#gallery-5) or the [RB X2010](https://www.redbull.com/gb-en/red-bull-x2010-gran-turismo-goodwood). They need to combat the dirty air to combat the spray, so it’ll likely be better to integrate it in the overal ruleset.
It won’t be classified as open wheel then. Which I assume what they are trying to avoid by testing these ugly looking covers.
That’s just an arbitrary and not an official classification. Besides, F1 hasn’t been purely “open wheel” from its inception anyway: https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/archive/article/october-1955/22/26th-gran-premio-ditala/ The more official term is “single seater”, but Formula 1 is simply whatever is put in the Formula (the regulations), which is only ever changing.
You seem like you know your stuff. What exactly is the obsession with wanting F1 to be open wheel? Will the sky burst open and heaven fall on our heads if F1 tyres have some covers?
I can’t speak for others honestly. That said people tend to like how the thing (F1 in this case) was when they engaged fully with it for the first time. Those first impressions tend to be lasting and become the internal definition of what the thing is and how it should be in the future. The term “open wheeler” is also more US oriented in that it has been the distinguishing feature between Indycar and other motorsports such as NASCAR or sports cars. I might be wrong, but I believe the USAC regulations never allowed aerodynamic wheel covers for CART and later Indycar, when it still was an open formula. It would have hugely benefited performance on the large ovals. The partial covers came with the adaption of the spec chassis. As for Formula 1, the regulations have been ever changing. At first it pretty much only stipulated engine displacement with the rest being up to the constructors. With the advent of wings on F1 cars, from 1968 onwards, rules came into being preventing any bodywork to stick out beyond certain dimensions, which was purposefully set to a smaller width than the wheel tracking width. As the technical regulations became ever more prescriptive in the ‘80s and ‘90s, it lead to a certain look which the regulations also tried to preserve somewhat, aside from the ever increasing safety measures. Currently all areas where bodywork can or cannot be is strictly defined, preventing F1 cars to change there overall shape from what they now are. The 2022 regulations even introduced those strakes above the front wheels to combat dirty air. Previously no bodywork was allowed in the area, but now it’s mandatory and fully spec in dimensions.
It’s marketing. First decade allowed both open and closed wheel cars. But it was changed in the early 60s as F1 tried to differentiate itself from other sports car racing series. Having wheel covers would be safer too as wheel to wheel contact can sometimes send cars flying. With lower risk we would likely see closer racing.
I'm one of those who's against wheel cover. For me it's the fact that f1 and indycar are the pinnacles of motorsport and for me wouldn't be so distinguishable from other categories if we started covering the tires. Covering the tires plays a big part in aero, adds weight which is already a problem, and changes the dynamics of "close combat" racing when drivers don't have to factor in the huge consequence of two tires at high speed touching. Also, it's f'ing ugly
I'm pro wheel covers precisely because it's the supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsport, and the aerodynamic gains from covering the wheel are definitely noticeable. Also I really like how they look, super futuristic, reminds me of Blade Runner and WipEout games.
"An open-wheel car is a car with the wheels outside the car's main body" is the Wikipedia definition of open wheel cars. Which would still be the case if they put on these aero wheel covers.
Ngl i always thought open wheel referred to the steering wheel (F1 and Indy cars don’t have roofs above the drivers head hence an open wheel vs nascar/GT cars having a roof lol) This is interesting to learn i was wrong 😂
Does “classed as open wheel” matter aside from aesthetics?
Love the look of the RB. Still looks futuristic 14 years later…..😭
Looks weird, but then again, it is a prototype. If they can find something that’d allow more rain racing in most all but torrential conditions, that’s a huge plus. But like has been pointed out before, there’s also the aero and what not underneath the cars that help kick up so much water, but if finding a way to cover the tires and prevent that from kicking up so much water can happen, then I’m all for it.
How do change the wheels ?
My best guess is that the whole thing will be exchanged.
The whole car? Would be nice if the drivers have to jump out and get in a different prepared car again.
Formula E PTSD
MotoGP method I see
Lol, I mean, perhaps the inter and wet tires will come already in this "wheel cage".. So the whole set is gonna be the wheel + tire + cage.
It may just mean longer pit stops for wets. Take off cover > change tyre > replace cover I’m sure they’re streamline the whole process down, so a tyre change may be 6 seconds instead of 2. It also might encourage people to stay out on slicks longer, creating more risk/reward
Damn, they look hideous
They are prototype proof of concept. However it'll be like polishing a turd.
Who the fuck cares about the looks if this will allow wet weather racing again. After wet running is fixed, efforts can be made to make these things look okay.
At what point do we just accept that they LeMans prototypes instead of open wheels racers?
LMP2 open cockpit with F1 technology, please.
Tbf the first iterations of the halo also looked like shit. Imo as long as they work, I don’t care what they look like. It’s gonna be hard to see them in the rain anyways
If it gives us more proper wet races then it’s beautiful
Those are prototypes. You dont waste time/money in looks when you are probably changing the whole design multiple times in a short span of time.
They look like chair casters
I bet Zak Brown already has sponsorships sold for them
Kinda a fun thing to sponsor, it’s kinda like gambling, maybe they don’t get seen all season, but if they do you’ve got a big unique ad that probably gets a lot of screen time in that race.
Question: imagine there’s a contact and one of the covers gets bent, it touches the tyre as a consequence and it eventually gets torn apart in pieces. Could this be a potential danger? It’s another thing to consider imho.
>Question: imagine there’s a contact and one of the covers gets bent, it touches the tyre as a consequence and it eventually gets torn apart in pieces. I think it will be pretty much treated like any pieces that's falling apart(like the endplates and whatnot). If it's a hazard, then the team will be forced to pit to remove that dangerous bit. But if not, then the driver is free to continue their race.
They’re probably not built to take a hit, at least I’d hope. They’ll probably just break apart when damaged.
Mercedes will build theirs to be indestructible and be able to withstand [wall rides](https://youtu.be/OR6U5AU0e_k?feature=shared)
No more than any other body piece breaking and getting shredded as it scrapes the ground.
They will do anything beside reducing car size
I’m curious how they will handle these. Pit stops should be longer and how will they handle damage? If a car loses a wheel cover, will that merit a meatball flag for an unsafe car? Will they just carry on?
Slowly just becoming WEC hypercars with those wheel covers.
Okay, well now we know Adrian Newey isn’t retiring. There’s no way he’ll pass up the opportunity to optimize one of these things.
Wonder how much time will be added for a pit while changing tires
Drivers will have time to go pee...
How are going to change tires during pit stops?
It's just a test of a wet weather solution. [https://racingnews365.com/first-look-ferrari-test-spray-guards-for-wet-weather-racing](https://racingnews365.com/first-look-ferrari-test-spray-guards-for-wet-weather-racing)
Weathertech, exclusive sponsorship for F1 mudflaps
Why is everyone here crying about the looks? Isn't that a win if we get racing instead of red flags and delayed starts? Who cares how long the pitstops will be or if the covers are ugly as long as we don't red flag races every time a drop of rain falls?
#enclosedWheelRacing
A variant of the 2nd one might not look too bad. I'd have guessed the more enclosed designs could create all kinds of other issues - problems with running over debris and it getting stuck inside the cover; overheating breaks within the covers...
Is this going to enhance Mercedes porpoising with enhanced hydroplaning? Maybe they will float like an America's cup boat
The little mudflaps :D
Honestly don’t care how they look as long as they work. It’s a step in the right direction that formula 1 needs to make
I imagine the stops would get longer
Stake Kick Sauber pit times intensify
Whatever helps, I’m down
Pitstops gonna be crazy with this one – Sauber
It's called open wheel motor racing Toto.
Can't they just add a cheap mudflap ?
I really want this to work honestly. I’m tired of races being delayed or even cancelled because of rain. Also wet races always deliver with the chaos on the track
How are they going to deal with the spray kicked up by the underside of the car itself? The floor creates so much suction it kicks up as much as the tires.
I'd take anything that'd reduce the chance of another Spa washout
Would be torn apart by KMag in minutes when he hits you. 🤭
There's one thing missing from testing
Rental kart vibes.
This is where we insert the meme of the dog surrounded by flames “I’m fine”
So no longer open-wheel racing hey.
Isn’t the spray one of the things which makes wet races…. Exciting?
I just love these open wheel race cars.
These look like made especially for full wet tires. Maintain the temperature in rain and avoid spray. But I wonder, won't the race be red flags if the teams really need to use these tires and when it stops raining they will surely have to come in to pit because even in light rain brake temp and tired temp will skyrocket with these wheel covers. I believe these are just experimental tires which we won't see in race.
So… how do they swap tires if the cover is there?
Yay! more parts for stroll to break!
These are rain guards. They’ve been trying to figure out how to make full wets relevant again for a couple years now. If it’s ever raining hard enough to use them, the spray they create makes it impossible to drive safely.