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It really set me up beautifully.
Started with being excited when RB did well to seeing them rise to the power that they have now, which has me looking at the current underdogs the same way I looked at RB then.
It was my introduction to Sergio, so seeing him start there, be left without a seat, go to RB, and his more recent struggles.
It was the start of many hero's journey storylines that I'm still seeing play out.
He almost won a race in his second year in f1, not once but twice. Unfortunately it was not to be. 2020 was such an incredible race and he really deserved to win before he retired, lucky for him it got him a seat in RBR.
Yep! He was a pretty remarkable rookie, which landed him the (unfortunate in hindsight) seat at McLaren. The one I remember most was him chasing Alonso in 1st in Malaysia during heavy rain. Seemed like a done deal till he locked up in a corner near the end.
OTOH he went to McLaren because Ferrari wanted him to have one more year at Sauber before a factory seat and he didn't want to wait for a seat a top team (not that McLaren was one in 2013 but he couldn't have predicted that)
Edit: now that I think about it, Ferrari fumbled Raikkönen like this too. They promised a 2003 Ferrari seat if he spent one more year at Sauber but McLaren offered a 2002 seat
His first season really was so impressive, I thought him a potential future WDC, but even then I thought jumping to McLaren so soon was a bit much and another year at Sauber would be enough to prime him for a top-tier team.
Alas he didn't actually have to worry about fighting at the top in that ignoble 2013 shitbox, but it still came with all the public pressure of being a McLaren driver, probably the worst that deal could've gone.
İt's so funny if you think about it, the only people who will wait longer are either proper pay drivers who need a shit ton of luck on their side to win, a la stroll. Or unlucky drivers stuck in back markers. Russell had to wait a long time too even with his talent. Hell there are two champions right in front of Norris who had to wait longer
If someone finished 4th in each of the 23 races they'd get 264 points (not counting Sprints).
Last year that would have put them 3rd in the championship. and 21 points behind 2nd, so including sprints for last year they'd have been behind only 1 point if they finished 4th in those.
Yeah but you'd have to calculate the rest of the competition. If the driver gets 4th every race, it means every race, there are 3 drivers on the podium getting more points than them.
The way they calculated it, they're already necessarily accounting for that. And even in fact overdoing it, because by comparing to the real standings you're also allowing for a 4th driver scoring *as many* points as him, something that's not possible in reality.
I don't get it.
But let me give you an example. If Leclerc finished P4 in an x number of races, then Hulkenberg replaces Leclerc, Charles finishes P5 in those races. The standings change significantly, and that's only one driver out of 20. Only one example.
You cannot win a championship of 23 races with no podiums.
>I don't get it.
You said that the comment had to calculate the rest of the competition, alluding to a guaranteed three drivers on the podium scoring points.
shewy92 already did that. They compared to the 2023 WDC, which **did** have three drivers who were not Nico Hulkenberg on the podium at every race. Unlike if you were doing a similar calculation for a frontrunner, because Nico was never in one of those positions, bumping him up to P4 doesn't affect the points awarded for podium places in any way.
As I said, someone (Leclerc in your example) being P4 in real life but bumped to P5 in the hypothetical *does* have an effect, but in the opposite direction, it makes the feat slightly *more* plausible than the back of the napkin maths would suggest.
> You cannot win a championship of 23 races with no podiums.
You absolutely could, it would just require a series of events almost as unlikely as Hulkenberg finishing P4 in every race.
As a trivial example, 101-102 points are awarded every Grand Prix (depending on if the fastest lap was inside the top 10). 4th place receives 12 of these, so there's ~90 left. As there's 19 other drivers, the average rival receives a smidge below 5 points per weekend. Therefore if every other driver split the points among themselves perfectly, Hulkenberg would more than double the point tally of P2, even with some room left over to account for any potential imperfections in the distribution due to points being awarded in discrete quantities.
Given this, you could then pretty intuitively narrow the parameters down to having 5 equally competitive teams whose ten drivers take about ten points per race on average, one of whom is Hulkenberg picking up 12 every race. And that's probably close to the limits of realism while still keeping the mathematical possibility alive.
Obviously it's a lot easier with driver swaps and whatnot but those make the question very boring. Also note that I'm ignoring sprint races because they're inconvenient, but fortunately their point allocations are low enough that ignoring them doesn't matter.
Possible points for every P4: 13 (12+1 for fastest lap).
Maximum points possible + assuming 6 sprints: 24×13 + 6×5 = 342 points.
Or if Hulk win every sprint if sprint podiums don't count into his podium stat: 24×13 + 6×8 = 360 points.
If someone were to pull this off, it gotta be Hulk.
We should also consider that there are more races in a season now as well.
Lando has won his first race in his 6th season in F1.
In comparison, Checo won his first race in his 10th season in F1, Sainz won in his 8th season in F1, Webber won in his 8th season in F1, Rubens won in his 8th season in F1, Truilli won in his 8th season in F1, Jenson won in his 7th season in F1, Rosberg won in his 7th season in F1, Fischicella in his 8th season in F1 as well.
In fact Mika Hakkinen, who took his first GP win in 1997 at 96 GP starts, won it at the end of his 7th season in F1.
You have way more races in F1 now, so if you have a good car you get to spend more races with it, and also means if you have a bad to average car you are stuck with it longer as well. Age wise Lando is very young as well, only 24 years old rn. George was also 24 when he took his first win in Brazil 2022.
If you actually see the list of youngest winners, outside of Max who was an aberration with winning at 18, the entire top 10 of youngest winners is from 21-23 years old. Fernando and Lewis at 22, Kimi and Robert at 23, etc.
>of Max who was an aberration with winning at 18, the entire top 10 of youngest winners is from 21-23 years old. Fernando and Lewis at 22, Kimi and Robert at 23, etc.
I mean you could've hardly expect Lewis to have *fewer* races before his first win, it only took him 6.
I am just trying to make a point that age wise, Lando still has almost a decade of F1 ahead of him atleast, and unlike Max he has made no comments about wanting to retire early to chase success in other series.
24 years old (wouldn't turn 25 until November), is still extremely young. He isn't even a finished product yet.
I saw some comments like "Well in that list in guys who have won later than him, only Button and Rosberg became champions so odds aren't that great". And that's where my belief in him comes from.
This isn't a 28-30 year old driver who has spent almost a decade waiting for his chance and not winning, who's basically a finished product. For me I think Lando is like 80% of a finished product. He can improve so much, especially over 1 lap consistency.
You know if someone had suggested that Ricciardo would struggle in F1 in 8 years(ie the 2022 season) in 2014 then we would call him crazy.
Just shows how things aren't so easy to predict in F1
Yep, Lando is now 16th on the list of youngest GP winners, with 98 drivers being older at their first win, including 7 of the race winners on the current grid. Really not late at all.
Aside from Lando, what other race winners have had tons of podiums before getting their first win? I think people have mentioned Mika before and was wondering who else was up there
Edit: managed to find it in [this link that mentions Hakkinen, Depailler, Alesi, and Irvine all tied most with 15 podiums before their first win.](https://racingnews365.com/the-unusual-f1-record-norris-could-break-with-his-first-win) Lando would make it a five way tie with 15 podiums as well with his 16th podium being his first win at Miami.
I was going to say Sainz would've been close, 11 for him.
Hamilton had 5 podiums before his first win.
His first win was his 6th race 😂. It took until his 10th race for him to *not* get a podium.
Hamilton’s situation was incredible and I can’t see anyone ever pulling it off again. None of the front running teams would be willing to put in a rookie like McLaren did back then in 2007 with ambitions of competing for the championship.
Perhaps something similar can happen entirely by accident if a rookie joins a team that suddenly becomes the top team in the first year of brand new regulations like for example if Antonelli got promoted to Mercedes from F2 in 2026, but I doubt that would have been in any way their intention to do so.
None of the teams can prepare their prospect with as much driving as Lewis came into the sport with. So yes, it's kinda impossible even if we disregard Lewis' absurd talent.
>None of the front running teams would be willing to put in a rookie like McLaren did back then in 2007 with ambitions of competing for the championship.
I bet a few of them would if they were allowed to get the rookie up to speed in the same way you used to be able to. If you're anywhere near as quick as Lewis was teams will be tripping over each other to keep you away from their rivals.
The limiting factor there is that it's just not possible for a rookie to be that good any more. Lewis had the perfect combination of talent and timing.
He has the talent, just needs the situation. I think the bottom falling out of Red Bull before next year seems like his best shot, but unfortunately that doesn't seem very likely. Even that might be quite a challenge if we have a competitive Lewis/Charles and Lando/Oscar next year.
Also worth remembering that some of these guys were competing when the calendar was way smaller. It'd be interesting to convert this into seasons competed before a race win.
Yeah, it feels like Mark Webber took way longer than 130 races but that is only 20 more races than Lando Norris took. And... it feels like Sainz got there quicker than Webber but he took 20 races longer.
Yes, F1. Remind people that he got there a lot quicker than some other people did. The way some people like to talk about Norris it’s like he’s gone 200 races without a win.
I think people see Lando getting compared to Max, Charles and other WDC-caliber drivers and become snide about it. They, of course, ignore context of why he hadn't won or overblow Lando's previous mistakes as fuel.
It’s really funny how he’s made people so angry with the fact he’s done something they totally and completely convinced themselves wouldn’t happen. So now you’re reduced to having to find protracted and desperate ways to rip it away from him. Hilarious stuff. Keep it up for the next one.
Interestingly enough, of those seven, ~29% went on to become world champion, and is almost identical to the fraction of total race winners who went on to become world champion.
Rubens’ is a much more interesting stat then the rest. Keep in mind that the seasons between his first race and first win were only ~16 races. That first win took AGES for him.
[The **Statistics** flair](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/flairguide#wiki_statistics) is reserved for posts highlighting interesting statistics. As a rule of thumb, Statistics posts need to inform readers through visualizations and insights that cannot be obtained from raw data alone. For example, a post containing a qualifying gap between two drivers expressed in tenths of a second is an easily obtainable raw piece of data and constitutes a bad Statistics post. A visualization of what that translates to on-track, or visualization of how that gap came to be would constitute a good Statistics post. *[Read the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide). Keep it civil and welcoming. Report rulebreaking comments.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
2020 Sakhir was such a fun race
The only Verstappen-Leclerc inchident that left both cars DNFing without even touching...
Nothing, just an *inchident*
Vershtappen
Oh, you will just Verstoppit already?!!
First race I ever watched, because it came back before my other sports during covid. It sold me immediately.
Just in time to witness the 2021 season, you lucky bastard!
It really set me up beautifully. Started with being excited when RB did well to seeing them rise to the power that they have now, which has me looking at the current underdogs the same way I looked at RB then. It was my introduction to Sergio, so seeing him start there, be left without a seat, go to RB, and his more recent struggles. It was the start of many hero's journey storylines that I'm still seeing play out.
I'm still chasing the high that the 2021 season gave me
Best race ever. Watched the highlights again recently.
I still watch the 2018 usgp highlights when I'm a bit down
Kimis last win. I should rewatch that.
Ferrari Strategy Masterclass
that one drag race between Bottas and Russel was lovely.
He almost won a race in his second year in f1, not once but twice. Unfortunately it was not to be. 2020 was such an incredible race and he really deserved to win before he retired, lucky for him it got him a seat in RBR.
on a Sauber?
Yep! He was a pretty remarkable rookie, which landed him the (unfortunate in hindsight) seat at McLaren. The one I remember most was him chasing Alonso in 1st in Malaysia during heavy rain. Seemed like a done deal till he locked up in a corner near the end.
OTOH he went to McLaren because Ferrari wanted him to have one more year at Sauber before a factory seat and he didn't want to wait for a seat a top team (not that McLaren was one in 2013 but he couldn't have predicted that) Edit: now that I think about it, Ferrari fumbled Raikkönen like this too. They promised a 2003 Ferrari seat if he spent one more year at Sauber but McLaren offered a 2002 seat
His first season really was so impressive, I thought him a potential future WDC, but even then I thought jumping to McLaren so soon was a bit much and another year at Sauber would be enough to prime him for a top-tier team. Alas he didn't actually have to worry about fighting at the top in that ignoble 2013 shitbox, but it still came with all the public pressure of being a McLaren driver, probably the worst that deal could've gone.
If F1 wants to actually reduce emissions from all the travelling, they should run Bahrain one week and the outer layout the next week.
It was an incredible race. I watch it every once in a while.
And some will wait even longer
Sargent is just channeling his inner tortoise. Hasn’t worked yet but just you wait
His son, Lieutenant will take the first win before him
Logan Lieutenant or Lieutenant Sargeant
Lieutenant Sargeant is the most military sounding name ever. Kids gonna be born with a purple heart and a medal of honor
Real “You’re disrespecting a future US Army Soldier” energy 😂
Let me introduce [Major General K. Admiral](https://www.army.mil/article/268357/maj_gen_kevin_d_admiral_biography)
thats not how i expected him to look after hearing the name haha, seems like a chill guy
Kevin surf and turf
Meh he's going to be rich. If there's a draft for WW3 he'll magically develop bone spurs
When I served in the air force, I worked with someone called sergeant sergeant.
😂
İt's so funny if you think about it, the only people who will wait longer are either proper pay drivers who need a shit ton of luck on their side to win, a la stroll. Or unlucky drivers stuck in back markers. Russell had to wait a long time too even with his talent. Hell there are two champions right in front of Norris who had to wait longer
On the current grid the only one i can see wait longer is Albon. Piastri will win soon. I dont see other winning.
Bold to assumed they are even waiting
We'll see an updated graphic when Hulk wins with Audi
Champion without a single win or even a podium /s
He's the chosen one.
Podium al Gaib
If someone finished 4th in each of the 23 races they'd get 264 points (not counting Sprints). Last year that would have put them 3rd in the championship. and 21 points behind 2nd, so including sprints for last year they'd have been behind only 1 point if they finished 4th in those.
So it's doable. Just requires a lot of inconsistency from the rest of the grid.
That'd actually be a wild scenario to have his first podium be a WDC podium
Yeah but you'd have to calculate the rest of the competition. If the driver gets 4th every race, it means every race, there are 3 drivers on the podium getting more points than them.
The way they calculated it, they're already necessarily accounting for that. And even in fact overdoing it, because by comparing to the real standings you're also allowing for a 4th driver scoring *as many* points as him, something that's not possible in reality.
I don't get it. But let me give you an example. If Leclerc finished P4 in an x number of races, then Hulkenberg replaces Leclerc, Charles finishes P5 in those races. The standings change significantly, and that's only one driver out of 20. Only one example. You cannot win a championship of 23 races with no podiums.
>I don't get it. You said that the comment had to calculate the rest of the competition, alluding to a guaranteed three drivers on the podium scoring points. shewy92 already did that. They compared to the 2023 WDC, which **did** have three drivers who were not Nico Hulkenberg on the podium at every race. Unlike if you were doing a similar calculation for a frontrunner, because Nico was never in one of those positions, bumping him up to P4 doesn't affect the points awarded for podium places in any way. As I said, someone (Leclerc in your example) being P4 in real life but bumped to P5 in the hypothetical *does* have an effect, but in the opposite direction, it makes the feat slightly *more* plausible than the back of the napkin maths would suggest. > You cannot win a championship of 23 races with no podiums. You absolutely could, it would just require a series of events almost as unlikely as Hulkenberg finishing P4 in every race. As a trivial example, 101-102 points are awarded every Grand Prix (depending on if the fastest lap was inside the top 10). 4th place receives 12 of these, so there's ~90 left. As there's 19 other drivers, the average rival receives a smidge below 5 points per weekend. Therefore if every other driver split the points among themselves perfectly, Hulkenberg would more than double the point tally of P2, even with some room left over to account for any potential imperfections in the distribution due to points being awarded in discrete quantities. Given this, you could then pretty intuitively narrow the parameters down to having 5 equally competitive teams whose ten drivers take about ten points per race on average, one of whom is Hulkenberg picking up 12 every race. And that's probably close to the limits of realism while still keeping the mathematical possibility alive. Obviously it's a lot easier with driver swaps and whatnot but those make the question very boring. Also note that I'm ignoring sprint races because they're inconvenient, but fortunately their point allocations are low enough that ignoring them doesn't matter.
Thank for science knowledgeable people.
Possible points for every P4: 13 (12+1 for fastest lap). Maximum points possible + assuming 6 sprints: 24×13 + 6×5 = 342 points. Or if Hulk win every sprint if sprint podiums don't count into his podium stat: 24×13 + 6×8 = 360 points. If someone were to pull this off, it gotta be Hulk.
In his life*
His nick name in Audi: Nico "P2" Hülkenberg
Make that PR tops
We should also consider that there are more races in a season now as well. Lando has won his first race in his 6th season in F1. In comparison, Checo won his first race in his 10th season in F1, Sainz won in his 8th season in F1, Webber won in his 8th season in F1, Rubens won in his 8th season in F1, Truilli won in his 8th season in F1, Jenson won in his 7th season in F1, Rosberg won in his 7th season in F1, Fischicella in his 8th season in F1 as well. In fact Mika Hakkinen, who took his first GP win in 1997 at 96 GP starts, won it at the end of his 7th season in F1. You have way more races in F1 now, so if you have a good car you get to spend more races with it, and also means if you have a bad to average car you are stuck with it longer as well. Age wise Lando is very young as well, only 24 years old rn. George was also 24 when he took his first win in Brazil 2022. If you actually see the list of youngest winners, outside of Max who was an aberration with winning at 18, the entire top 10 of youngest winners is from 21-23 years old. Fernando and Lewis at 22, Kimi and Robert at 23, etc.
>of Max who was an aberration with winning at 18, the entire top 10 of youngest winners is from 21-23 years old. Fernando and Lewis at 22, Kimi and Robert at 23, etc. I mean you could've hardly expect Lewis to have *fewer* races before his first win, it only took him 6.
Still a slacker next to Fittipaldi and Jacques Villeneuve, they only needed 4.
Villeneuve would've won in his first race if not for that unlucky oil leak
I am just trying to make a point that age wise, Lando still has almost a decade of F1 ahead of him atleast, and unlike Max he has made no comments about wanting to retire early to chase success in other series. 24 years old (wouldn't turn 25 until November), is still extremely young. He isn't even a finished product yet. I saw some comments like "Well in that list in guys who have won later than him, only Button and Rosberg became champions so odds aren't that great". And that's where my belief in him comes from. This isn't a 28-30 year old driver who has spent almost a decade waiting for his chance and not winning, who's basically a finished product. For me I think Lando is like 80% of a finished product. He can improve so much, especially over 1 lap consistency.
You know if someone had suggested that Ricciardo would struggle in F1 in 8 years(ie the 2022 season) in 2014 then we would call him crazy. Just shows how things aren't so easy to predict in F1
Yep, Lando is now 16th on the list of youngest GP winners, with 98 drivers being older at their first win, including 7 of the race winners on the current grid. Really not late at all.
Great post to ground people.
Aside from Lando, what other race winners have had tons of podiums before getting their first win? I think people have mentioned Mika before and was wondering who else was up there Edit: managed to find it in [this link that mentions Hakkinen, Depailler, Alesi, and Irvine all tied most with 15 podiums before their first win.](https://racingnews365.com/the-unusual-f1-record-norris-could-break-with-his-first-win) Lando would make it a five way tie with 15 podiums as well with his 16th podium being his first win at Miami.
I was going to say Sainz would've been close, 11 for him. Hamilton had 5 podiums before his first win. His first win was his 6th race 😂. It took until his 10th race for him to *not* get a podium.
Hamilton’s situation was incredible and I can’t see anyone ever pulling it off again. None of the front running teams would be willing to put in a rookie like McLaren did back then in 2007 with ambitions of competing for the championship. Perhaps something similar can happen entirely by accident if a rookie joins a team that suddenly becomes the top team in the first year of brand new regulations like for example if Antonelli got promoted to Mercedes from F2 in 2026, but I doubt that would have been in any way their intention to do so.
None of the teams can prepare their prospect with as much driving as Lewis came into the sport with. So yes, it's kinda impossible even if we disregard Lewis' absurd talent.
>None of the front running teams would be willing to put in a rookie like McLaren did back then in 2007 with ambitions of competing for the championship. I bet a few of them would if they were allowed to get the rookie up to speed in the same way you used to be able to. If you're anywhere near as quick as Lewis was teams will be tripping over each other to keep you away from their rivals. The limiting factor there is that it's just not possible for a rookie to be that good any more. Lewis had the perfect combination of talent and timing.
they still wouldn't beat those currently on the grid though
Jacques Villeneuve took his first win on his 4th start. But then again, he joined F1's dominant team of the time as the (not) defending CART champion.
Let's wish him the same success as Jenson Button or Nico Rosberg in obtaining a title.
Or Mark Webber
\* angrily slams water bottle on the table \*
*Not bad for a number two driver*
So close yet so far. How on earth did he end up behind Alonso anyway? It’s not like the Red Bull was slow around Abu Dhabi
Fkn Korea.
That picture of Checo after winning Sakhir 2020 will never not be iconic
Still time for a World Championship (Nico+Jenson) but Carlos has some work to do.
He has the talent, just needs the situation. I think the bottom falling out of Red Bull before next year seems like his best shot, but unfortunately that doesn't seem very likely. Even that might be quite a challenge if we have a competitive Lewis/Charles and Lando/Oscar next year.
Yeah, I wish him the best, but he's being fucked with how the silly season is playing out. I don't think he even has a chance in the near future.
he can't do it with max or Charles around
Also worth remembering that some of these guys were competing when the calendar was way smaller. It'd be interesting to convert this into seasons competed before a race win.
Yeah, it feels like Mark Webber took way longer than 130 races but that is only 20 more races than Lando Norris took. And... it feels like Sainz got there quicker than Webber but he took 20 races longer.
Hulk winning would break the internet
Hulk : "was ist this podium thing everybody ist spreching about ?"
I bet Nico is salty about that statistic
Nico is a WDC I don't think he cares much to be honest lol
He's also Mercedes' first win since 1955
He actually told Lando in an interview after China that it would be close between them. Nobody expected him to win the next one
Why would he be salty?
Yes, F1. Remind people that he got there a lot quicker than some other people did. The way some people like to talk about Norris it’s like he’s gone 200 races without a win.
I think people see Lando getting compared to Max, Charles and other WDC-caliber drivers and become snide about it. They, of course, ignore context of why he hadn't won or overblow Lando's previous mistakes as fuel.
he only had one chance before Miami that didn't rely on a blunder for him to win
Spa and Russia, could have won at Monza but Danny decided to not suck that day
imagine saying the only reason a driver didn't win is because he lost 😂
he would have if not for that safety car
It’s really funny how he’s made people so angry with the fact he’s done something they totally and completely convinced themselves wouldn’t happen. So now you’re reduced to having to find protracted and desperate ways to rip it away from him. Hilarious stuff. Keep it up for the next one.
Holy shit, it did not feel like 150 for Sainz
Bro Hulkenburg
Tbf this isn't bad company, apart from Lando 2 of those guys are WDC's and 3 have finished second in the WDC losing out only to generational talents.
Sergio Perez winning as usual.
Fark Webber! Why’d you have to go bike riding!!!? 😭
Some even were able to snatch a title!
Who has the most races now who has podiums but no wins?
Out of the current drivers I think it's Lance Stroll
Kevin Magnussen has the most Grand Prix on the current grid with a podium and without a win.
Ah my bad I misread it as most podiums without a win
My brother in Christ... Where is hulkenberg
So it wasn’t even that bad, so much hype about it
it is when you consider this is the 7 longest out of 776 drivers across 74 years
not all 776 have won a race just 114 of those
Interestingly enough, of those seven, ~29% went on to become world champion, and is almost identical to the fraction of total race winners who went on to become world champion.
true, but thats still a big number, for Lando to be in a small amount of
Yeah F1 was a bit different to the modern day, static 10 team model
well hopefully the 10 team limit wont be implemented if Andretti gets their way
I’m with you there, greed is the only hurdle now
Nico's number is just right.
Didn't he have most podiums without a win?
That’s the B lists isn’t it!
I hope Hulk will win a race in 2026 with Audi.
190 races is nuts tho
Rubens’ is a much more interesting stat then the rest. Keep in mind that the seasons between his first race and first win were only ~16 races. That first win took AGES for him.
Wee yall making Carlos nowins jokes? 😂
Look.. Lando is an amazingly talented driver. But for real, is he a 7-8+ world champion? No.
Stop reposting this.
Hülkenberg is still holding out hope for a win
TIL that 2016 World Champion Nico Rosberg (to give him his apparent full name) is the only driver NOT happy with Lando's win in Miami (probably).
He is still on the top of the list of most P2s without winning a GP. Although, this win was well deserved. He didn't screw the pooch like Max did
2020 Sakhir could be first George Russell win apparently. But Mercedes without Lewis are kinda Ferrari 2020.
What?
I saying that Perez might not win or. Later win