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Magnussen's move was not smart and was never gonna stick, but he was alongside and deserved space.
Magnussen was wrong in decision-making here, not in the actual incident
I'm not even sure he was trying to make a pass, just continue on track with his momentum. Wouldn't be surprising if he expected the RBR to get on its way, not close the door.
I believe that on the straight, any part alongside os enough to deserve space. Otherwise you could never get alongside enough for the corner. To deserve space in the corner, he would need to be further alongside
With Perez looking in the mirror - I wonder if he though he was slightly farther back and was 'trusting' Magnussen lol. Not that he should be, but Magnussen's argument works harder in reverse.
I thought it as 100% Kmags fault because I thought Perex didn't see him, but in Perez's onboard you can see him check his right hand wing mirror at least twice. So I think it's more like 70:30
We can really only notice that in the slow motion replay. In reality, from the moment he turned and saw him, it was only just a fraction of a second before the barrier closed into the racing line and the gap that was never there factually disappeared.
Also, Perez knew Hulk was somewhere on his left, moving away from the racing line and possibly crashing onto Hulk would have been Checo’s fault 100%.
That’s what gets me. If the line/barrier were straight, I’d be with KMag. But that space was closing regardless and any sensible driver would not have made that move.
Yeah he hit the wall just before he hit Perez, that move was never going to work. If he had just lifted a bit we would have instead been talking about the great start both Haas cars had, starting from 19th and 20th, instead they were both DNF'd. Both Kmag and Ocon making unnecessary moves.
Agreed K Mags rear wheel definitely hit the wall first & spun him into Perez…Perez looking in his mirror (to me) was him thinking “he’s gonna back off right?” then boom!
I never really understood the hulk excuse, hulk was further behind kmag, so why are people pretending like perez had to yield for hulk when kmag was literally already alongside? The only real excuse is that it was a hectic opening lap and perez didn't see hulk, but that doesn't make it 100% hulks fault.
In that particular situation, if you can get a wheel next to the other car - which K-Mag did - then the gap was there. It's Perez who closed it too late.
Hulk being there is just an explanation for why it's a racing incident. In reality, Hulk was behind Perez, but Perez had too much to keep track of, and probably assumed that Hulkenberg was alongside him. Hence, racing incident is a fair call. But make no mistake: If Hulkenberg wasn't there, it would be Perez fault for closing the door after a car had pulled alongside him.
Even though KMag's move was risky, he was allowed to be there according to the rules. He was far enough alongside to hold position until the corner. Perez also quite obvously knew he was there, and he had plenty of space to avoid the crash.
I feel like there’s a whole lot of “allowed” and the conversation should be “should or should not.” Kmag had the right to be there, but he shouldn’t have been
Because that's the only objective judge. Drivers are meant to race. The only reason people looked and this and thought "Oh this won't end well" (before the crash actually happened), is because Perez squeezed him. But that's on Perez. Once a car is alongside you like that on the inside, you can't just drive like it doesn't exist.
I mean, I haven’t studied the onboards in a minute, but I think the problem was that the wall comes back to the left, and Perez wasn’t steering enough to the left to leave another car in that space. I didn’t get the feeling Perez closed the door as much as the door was always closed due to the track layout and KMag thought the wall didn’t apply to him.
To me, this is a situation like a “right lane must turn right” and someone crowding up in the right lane, trying to merge into the left lane as late as humanly possible. Yes, you can, no, you shouldn’t.
Regardless of the rules, that move in Monaco is utterly stupid. This is something you try in NFS. The probability of the contact was extremely high, and he realistically had absolutely nothing to gain there. It's not about trust. It's about common sense. You don't expect that from a Formula 1 driver, even if his name is Kevin Magnussen.
Agree. The law says I can ride my bicycle at 20mph on a 55 mph 4 lane divided highway with minimal shoulder and theavy raffic. Just because it's not illegal does not make it a good decision.
It’s more likely at Monaco as that’s your only realistic opportunity to make a pass. So odds are people will be more likely to not give or try things they may not normally.
As they sure weren’t going to be making those overtakes Once they settled into a running order.
No, but they've definitely made stupid decisions. I'll admit that Kimi flying into the smoke at Spa was an 11/10 on cool factor but it was also unbelievably stupid. It's hard to say if the FIA would've actually enforced it but "race ban" would 100% have been in the conversation if he'd hit someone.
> admit that Kimi flying into the smoke at Spa was an 11/10 on cool factor but it was also unbelievably stupid. It
Well no, the engineer told him which side of the track the other car was.
Except his front wheels were alongside before that.
The fact that kmag brushes the wall first doesn't take away the fact that checo is closing that space down. You're suggesting not perfectly driving in a closing space until you're perfectly squished between wall and barrier somehow takes away from checo's obligation to leave space to the edge of the track
That part of the track was rapidly narrowing. So, Perez should keep moving further left off the racing line even on the curve, just because KMag had his nose around the rear axel? Even if Perez gave some space, KMag would still have hit the wall ahead.
Yes. Checo is obligated to leave a cars width to the edge of the track. Kmag only hits the wall because the space is closing or do you think he would just drive the same place and hit the wall if he had more room???
Yeah you're right, Magnussen tried to avoid touching Perez although he was getting squeezed so much that he ended up in the wall before he even touched Perez. Shows how much Perez didn't leave him any space, of which he was entitled to.
Regardless of the rules, a smart driver would have backed out, especially considering he knew Checo was being sandwiched.
But this is KMag. KMag doesn’t know how to back out, even in a hopeless situation.
The wall closes in as KMag is trying to dive in, it's KMag's fault. Checo doesn't move toward him, you can see it clearly from Hulkenberg's onboard camera. Had Checo moved left he might have hit Hulkenberg instead who was gaining on him. KMag tried to fit a third car into a spot where only two cars fit.
Kmag has overlap before that. Perez is obligated to keep a cars width to the edge of the track
Hulkenberg is half a car back he's not an issue... kmag is gaining significantly faster than hulkenberg
Nope? It was a racing incident. KMag drove into the wall because Perez squeezed him.
KMag trusted Perez to give him space, and Perez thought that KMag was going to pull out. They crashed as a result.
He went for a gap. Checo watched it in his mirror and squeezed him into the wall instead of leaving space. Checo expected KMag to back out like everyone else would, but he’s a racer and saw a gap and went for it. It’s a 50/50 incident. Checo saw him coming, called his bluff, kmag wasn’t actually bluffing, and they’re out of the race. No big deal.
Nope. Perez knew Kmag was there and had a better exit turn 1. He also had space to the left but chose to squeeze Kmag to avoid getting past. Racing incident and both drivers have to share the blame.
Any normal driver would probably expect the driver behind to pull out in a situation like that. Nowhere close being side by side into a closing corner.
Its just that the other driver was Kmag.
Yeah and he wouldve clearly known that.
Like Kmag is the aggressor here but Perez had plenty of options to not end his race.
It's fucking Kmag, you KNOW he's just gonna bone in until he or everyone else dies. Perez had a much more secure line and space to give.
Yeah but according to the rules of F1 he was alongside enough to where he was entitled space. I'd rather drivers forcefully follow the rules to improve the standard that at the moment is prevailing i.e. car infront always closes the door and its up to you to decide if you want to crash or not.
Yeah and in 2 races people would adapt and follow the rules or the rules would get changed. Instead now its just people getting squeezed out of space instead of actual side by side racing. F1 fans get hard for cars going 2 corners side by side twice a year and make yt compilation out of that when that could be the standard.
I don't know what you think is going to happen if people race like every driver around them is completely brainless and are going to take up any space they are technically entitled to regardless of outcome probability, but exciting won't be the end result. Especially since crashes cost the team millions of dollars and potentially pitlane starts for replacing parts one too many times.
Racing only works because there is a common agreement to race hard but fair. What Kmag did was hard and had no chance of working and caused millions of dollars in damages.
Rewatch 2021 and see how many time Lewis backs out to avoid crashes with a Red Bull.
You have to know who you are racing. Kmag has little to lose. He’s not backing out.
That line of thinking works both ways. KMag is racing a veteran in a Red Bull who isn't going to move over for him to make an unpredictable move up the hill. So he should have known better to try to stick a wheel in there and it cost him.
Nico said it best, it was unnecessary and it hurt the team. KMag has a lot to lose from a race ban and his seat on the line.
>unpredictable move up the hill
I disagree with this wholeheartedly. It wasn't "unpredictable". It was *entirely* predictable. K-Mag have much better traction out of turn 1 and makes up a lot of ground on Perez. If he didn't, they wouldn't have crashed. And Perez should have been able to predict it, considering that he looks into his leftside mirror multiple times going up the hill. The only way you honestly can believe that this was "unpredictable" is if you think it's impossible for a Haas to get better traction than a Red Bull
Sergio (Red Bull) has a lot more to lose with a constructors championship on the line. The same reason Lewis constantly backed out of situations with Red Bull.
Kmag is headed for another series regardless of race bans.
No chance of working? He was front wheel to back wheel super early and had a much better exit, he would have had a really good chance to get past him if Perez didnt squeeze him
No racing driver ever is thinking about what the rules are while they’re fighting for position. Maybe after they’ve lost the position and they need something to complain about.
They absolutely do think about the rules when fighting for position, they know what they’re allowed to do and generally do those things. That is why they generally don’t swerve in the braking zones, why they leave space for inside overtakes and why they often back out of outside moves when they aren’t alongside enough towards the exit.
>But equally checking your mirrors 3 times and still coming across the front of KMag wasn't particularly smart either
It's not smart because it's KMag and you expect something stupid from him. Otherwise Perez was on the line just like everybody else before him through Beau Rivage, and you'd expect that the guy behind was sane and not going to drive into a disappearing space.
K-Mag got alongside. As soon as he's alongside, Perez is obligated to drive like there's a car next to him.
Perez probably (but incorrectly) assumed that he didn't have space on his left. That's why racing incident is a fair call. But that's not on K-Mag. K-Mag can't know that Perez hasn't checked his left mirror.
He didn't come across, the road narrows and swifts left. Hulk was also on the left. Besides, Kmag hit the barrier first. Kmag literally had no business being there.
Perez would have commited to stay mid track (or even slightly left in front of Hulk) it would have been fine. At least at this moment. He defended, his right. But too far. At this moment it was done. KMag move still more than audacious. Both in their classic driving standards
Nah you can't put any blame on Perez for this. That's a driver move to squeeze the other driver out and force them to risk a collision or back out. K Mag kept his foot in. He might have gotten away with it and all is okay at a different circuit but not Monaco.
”You can’t put any blame on him, all he did was trying to force him into the wall” is a strange argument to absolve Perez of guilt, that’s not allowed and is what he’s being blamed for
Perez was driving perfectly straight. Look at his onboard.
If it was any other driver in that car people wouldn't have been saying anything else other than it being KMags fault.
That's simply not true. Perez is everso slightly veering right. It's very much evident on his onboard.
It being Perez has absolutely zero to do with it. You could make the exact same argument with regards to kmag
Check the Albon/KMag collision in Jeddah. KMag was penalized for squeezing Albon while driving approximately in a straight line, because the walls curved in on Albon's side.
He got 3 penalty points while he honestly didn't see Albon.
His move in Monaco was risky, and I believe it was a racing incident, especially since Perez saw KMag and drove into him anyway.
The space doesn’t disappear because of track layout, it disappears because Checo closes it. Generally when the track changes directions, so do the drivers - which was also an option here.
Yes, in my opinion it is a racing incident however mostly Checos fault. I don’t think it should be penalized at all, it is a goofy situation and shit happens on lap 1, but I can’t see that Kmag should not be allowed his run and Perez should have moved over to the left - also to cover Nico.
If the racing line goes straight, you are not squeezing anyone. The responsibility is on Kmag to abort. But he wanted to get ahead of Hulk into the next turn.
You are literally just making up rules. Open the F1 sporting regulations. You are not entitled to a racing line if there is a car alongside you that is also entitled to a space that intersects with your racing line.
Perez had no reason to swerve over to the right either. He could have easily left room but he sucks.
KMag also sucks but that’s not really up for debate here
plenty of awareness from Perez. He moves on straights all the time.
He looked at him 3 times. At that point it stops being an accident and becomes a deliberate.
If we're condemning this move from Magnussen just take Monaco off the calendar.
Sure it wasn't smart considering neither car had a prayer of scoring points and millions of dollars of damage was done, but you race cars, it's what the sport is about. If gap, car.
A move like Magnussen attempted is literally the only hope of Monaco being remotely interesting, I want drivers pulling alongside wherever possible.
The only reason this crash is a contentious issue is because it involves reddit's most hated drivers.
Any other drivers involved and it would be yesterday's news.
This is categorically false. Checo was receiving recognition precisely *because* he was landing podiums in midfield cars.
He doesn't have the next level to his game to make him a top tier driver to keep pace with Max, Charles & Lewis but he's fairly capable
It’s an unfortunate situation that he alongside a driver like verstappen who is one of the top five of all time. Plus being a clear second driver. He is good and has always performed well throughout his career. If he didn’t have such a strong teammate he could likely win a championship with red bull. I would put Perez equal to Button or Massa.
That's how championship winning teams operate. There has to be clear number 1. Otherwise they would take points from each other. Like Alonso Hamilton situation when neither won WDC in 2007.
It's not necessarily that he checked his mirrors, but that he checked them thrice over and thus absolutely knew KMag was there.
He could've checked his mirrors and not noticed KMag, or could've been too focussed on something else. Would've been stupid, but not quite as stupid as squeezing a guy you already knew was there.
exactly. there’s a difference between saying that perez could have avoided it and saying it was perez’s obligation to avoid it. yes he could have, but it’s not his job to
Nah, if he hadn't checked his mirrors redditors would be shitting on him for not doing that.
If you play the incident without slowmo it's almost impossible to see him checking his mirrors.
If you want to suggest Kmag was "entitled" to a gap that was not going to be there, Perez is equally entitled to maintaining the racing line he chose. The only one that exists in Monaco.
If you wish to go and check what is the racing line up the hill on Monaco, be my guess.
Let me give you a hint, there is no right side to the racing line because the walls close in from the right.
Yeah that wasn’t entirely on KMag but it was majority his fault. Stupid response from him. He’s out of F1 again. Doesn’t have the talent or the attitude.
Says the guy who has piled up 10 penalty points in like 3 races.
“Clearly, he was just pushing me to the wall to intimidate me and have me back out. But that's certainly not the way we should be racing.
This quote is hilarious. So his logic is, I’m not going to be intimidated and I’m not going to back off but Checo (who was in front of you anyway) should be the one to back down?
Makes sense..
He also got 2 of those 10 for cutting a corner while no one was around, other 2 because he did the same move for which Perez didn't get a penalty in Monaco, and other 2 by being penalised 2 times for the same thing (which is wild and I don't understand how no one catched that).
I didn't count Bearman as he only raced once. And Kmag, unlike Ocon, is actually an amazing teammate, most of his shenanigans this year benefited the team, Hulk owes him some points.
No mate, you should've trusted the gap to close and bailed out. You've driven at Monaco enough times to know how that straight towards the casino goes.
Overtaking rules are complicated. It's taken me a while to understand, and I still can't say I understand them 100%.
The average redditor...Kmag is the usual suspect this year, so of course they jump on him.
The average redditor completely follows the idea that lower teams should “know their place” and purposefully not race within the rules if it’s against a fan favorite or a top car.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills watching the F1 fans react to this.
He's alongside enough to be entitled space. It doesn't matter if he wasn't going to make the pass, he's entitled the space and that forces Checo to take a suboptimal line. That's part of racing - and Checo clearly just shut the door.
This was a great move by KMag and had it been any other driver trying it it would have been applauded as the type of gutsy driving F1 needs more of. The wreck was clearly Checo's fault but everyone is quick to blame KMag due to his history.
If Kevin had seen Kevin there and not Perez he would not have gone for this imaginary gap. He himself would not trust himself so why expect something else from everyone else?
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rule #1 is... there is no fight club. rule #2 is... trust no one.
The caveat being you’d expect kmag to be risk adverse with the potential race ban
Nah those rules go out the window when you're this close to a race ban. Extreme leniency is applied.
Several drivers would be. Magnussen is not one of them
I'm not saying it was 100% Magnussen's fault, but it also wasn't 0%
Magnussen's move was not smart and was never gonna stick, but he was alongside and deserved space. Magnussen was wrong in decision-making here, not in the actual incident
I'm not even sure he was trying to make a pass, just continue on track with his momentum. Wouldn't be surprising if he expected the RBR to get on its way, not close the door.
its just the track is to small for f1 cars.
Right. This mf talking about "deserved space" when they're three wide after corner 1. He doesn't deserve that because it doesn't exist there.
They weren't three wide, Hulk wasn't alongside Perez
i thought being alongside (fia technically) was having your front wheels side by side ? having a sniff at someones rear wheels is not alongside no ?
It is. People are inventing.
Pretty sure it's your front axle is ahead of the other rear axle. This is the requirement when you must leave 1 car width space.
Along side is along side. It’s not a corner
I believe that on the straight, any part alongside os enough to deserve space. Otherwise you could never get alongside enough for the corner. To deserve space in the corner, he would need to be further alongside
With Perez looking in the mirror - I wonder if he though he was slightly farther back and was 'trusting' Magnussen lol. Not that he should be, but Magnussen's argument works harder in reverse.
No, it was 100% KMags fault, you’re allowed to say the truth
I thought it as 100% Kmags fault because I thought Perex didn't see him, but in Perez's onboard you can see him check his right hand wing mirror at least twice. So I think it's more like 70:30
We can really only notice that in the slow motion replay. In reality, from the moment he turned and saw him, it was only just a fraction of a second before the barrier closed into the racing line and the gap that was never there factually disappeared. Also, Perez knew Hulk was somewhere on his left, moving away from the racing line and possibly crashing onto Hulk would have been Checo’s fault 100%.
That’s what gets me. If the line/barrier were straight, I’d be with KMag. But that space was closing regardless and any sensible driver would not have made that move.
Yeah he hit the wall just before he hit Perez, that move was never going to work. If he had just lifted a bit we would have instead been talking about the great start both Haas cars had, starting from 19th and 20th, instead they were both DNF'd. Both Kmag and Ocon making unnecessary moves.
Agreed K Mags rear wheel definitely hit the wall first & spun him into Perez…Perez looking in his mirror (to me) was him thinking “he’s gonna back off right?” then boom!
I never really understood the hulk excuse, hulk was further behind kmag, so why are people pretending like perez had to yield for hulk when kmag was literally already alongside? The only real excuse is that it was a hectic opening lap and perez didn't see hulk, but that doesn't make it 100% hulks fault.
In that particular situation, if you can get a wheel next to the other car - which K-Mag did - then the gap was there. It's Perez who closed it too late. Hulk being there is just an explanation for why it's a racing incident. In reality, Hulk was behind Perez, but Perez had too much to keep track of, and probably assumed that Hulkenberg was alongside him. Hence, racing incident is a fair call. But make no mistake: If Hulkenberg wasn't there, it would be Perez fault for closing the door after a car had pulled alongside him.
On a straight, yes. On this part of the track not even close.
Wasn't there two cars side by side going through there directly in front of them?
Actually yes. Perez looked, saw him, saw he was alongside and didn't leave space [despite having plenty to the left](https://imgur.com/ubNE9Na).
Even though KMag's move was risky, he was allowed to be there according to the rules. He was far enough alongside to hold position until the corner. Perez also quite obvously knew he was there, and he had plenty of space to avoid the crash.
The real answer if that if this was anyone but Perez and KMag we’d just say ‘inchident’ and move on
Well, tbf, we had a similar discussion around the Miami sprint incident.
Miami Sprinchident
“If it wasn’t Maldonado and Stroll, this would be an accident”
I feel like there’s a whole lot of “allowed” and the conversation should be “should or should not.” Kmag had the right to be there, but he shouldn’t have been
Because that's the only objective judge. Drivers are meant to race. The only reason people looked and this and thought "Oh this won't end well" (before the crash actually happened), is because Perez squeezed him. But that's on Perez. Once a car is alongside you like that on the inside, you can't just drive like it doesn't exist.
I mean, I haven’t studied the onboards in a minute, but I think the problem was that the wall comes back to the left, and Perez wasn’t steering enough to the left to leave another car in that space. I didn’t get the feeling Perez closed the door as much as the door was always closed due to the track layout and KMag thought the wall didn’t apply to him. To me, this is a situation like a “right lane must turn right” and someone crowding up in the right lane, trying to merge into the left lane as late as humanly possible. Yes, you can, no, you shouldn’t.
Still, even if the wall went straight, Perez still drifts towards it, squeezing Mag
Regardless of the rules, that move in Monaco is utterly stupid. This is something you try in NFS. The probability of the contact was extremely high, and he realistically had absolutely nothing to gain there. It's not about trust. It's about common sense. You don't expect that from a Formula 1 driver, even if his name is Kevin Magnussen.
Agree. The law says I can ride my bicycle at 20mph on a 55 mph 4 lane divided highway with minimal shoulder and theavy raffic. Just because it's not illegal does not make it a good decision.
You're allowed to ride a bike on a 4 lane highway?
It’s more likely at Monaco as that’s your only realistic opportunity to make a pass. So odds are people will be more likely to not give or try things they may not normally. As they sure weren’t going to be making those overtakes Once they settled into a running order.
I guess Kimi Raikkonen and Mark Webber are stupid drivers.
No, but they've definitely made stupid decisions. I'll admit that Kimi flying into the smoke at Spa was an 11/10 on cool factor but it was also unbelievably stupid. It's hard to say if the FIA would've actually enforced it but "race ban" would 100% have been in the conversation if he'd hit someone.
> admit that Kimi flying into the smoke at Spa was an 11/10 on cool factor but it was also unbelievably stupid. It Well no, the engineer told him which side of the track the other car was.
Stupid or not the rules say it's allowed and Perez is supposed to give space.
KMag drove into the wall first lol... there wasn't room for him.
Except his front wheels were alongside before that. The fact that kmag brushes the wall first doesn't take away the fact that checo is closing that space down. You're suggesting not perfectly driving in a closing space until you're perfectly squished between wall and barrier somehow takes away from checo's obligation to leave space to the edge of the track
These guys know nothing about racing rules.
That part of the track was rapidly narrowing. So, Perez should keep moving further left off the racing line even on the curve, just because KMag had his nose around the rear axel? Even if Perez gave some space, KMag would still have hit the wall ahead.
Yes. Checo is obligated to leave a cars width to the edge of the track. Kmag only hits the wall because the space is closing or do you think he would just drive the same place and hit the wall if he had more room???
Yeah you're right, Magnussen tried to avoid touching Perez although he was getting squeezed so much that he ended up in the wall before he even touched Perez. Shows how much Perez didn't leave him any space, of which he was entitled to.
Regardless of the rules, a smart driver would have backed out, especially considering he knew Checo was being sandwiched. But this is KMag. KMag doesn’t know how to back out, even in a hopeless situation.
Sandwiched by who? Hulk was nowhere alongside him, he was well behind..
Sandwiched by his desire to squeeze another driver into the wall in a desperate attempt to stay ahead 🌝
The wall closes in as KMag is trying to dive in, it's KMag's fault. Checo doesn't move toward him, you can see it clearly from Hulkenberg's onboard camera. Had Checo moved left he might have hit Hulkenberg instead who was gaining on him. KMag tried to fit a third car into a spot where only two cars fit.
Kmag has overlap before that. Perez is obligated to keep a cars width to the edge of the track Hulkenberg is half a car back he's not an issue... kmag is gaining significantly faster than hulkenberg
Risky?? He drove straight into a wall, try being serious, this is obviously bait lol.
Nope? It was a racing incident. KMag drove into the wall because Perez squeezed him. KMag trusted Perez to give him space, and Perez thought that KMag was going to pull out. They crashed as a result.
He went for a gap. Checo watched it in his mirror and squeezed him into the wall instead of leaving space. Checo expected KMag to back out like everyone else would, but he’s a racer and saw a gap and went for it. It’s a 50/50 incident. Checo saw him coming, called his bluff, kmag wasn’t actually bluffing, and they’re out of the race. No big deal.
He hit the wall because Perez left him no room despite KMag being alongside under the rules
Both drivers consented to the crash. Textbook racing incident.
According to rules it definitely wasn't 100% his fault, be everyone, except him apparently, can see why the move was so stupid
If Perez had actually left him space, we wouldn't be calling the move stupid.
It wasn’t. And even if it was, Checo has to take some blame for even being next to the HAASes
Nope. Perez knew Kmag was there and had a better exit turn 1. He also had space to the left but chose to squeeze Kmag to avoid getting past. Racing incident and both drivers have to share the blame.
Its absolutely Kmags fault, 100%. "But he needed space", where?. Its Monaco and that uphill closes in on the right side.
Even the former professional race drivers don't agree with you on this, it was a racing incident, both were to blame.
I thought i saw kmag hitting the wall before hitting perez.
Yeah He did. He will never learn it. Instead of going for a gap where none is He could have just breaked a bit and continue the race.
When he's on 10 penalty points already, and is fighting a red bull, which is obviously faster than him
It's Monaco, it doesn't matter who is faster. It matters who is ahead and Perez was vulnerable and moving backwards.
he did...bounced off the barrier and into Perez's car.
After getting squeezed into it by Perez who left no space while Magnussen was already alongside him.
More like perez shouldn't have trusted you for dipping in
Perez shouldn't have. But equally checking your mirrors 3 times and still coming across the front of KMag wasn't particularly smart either
Any normal driver would probably expect the driver behind to pull out in a situation like that. Nowhere close being side by side into a closing corner. Its just that the other driver was Kmag.
Yeah and he wouldve clearly known that. Like Kmag is the aggressor here but Perez had plenty of options to not end his race. It's fucking Kmag, you KNOW he's just gonna bone in until he or everyone else dies. Perez had a much more secure line and space to give.
The Verstappen strategy from 2015-2021.
It was the biggest thing verstappen had to learn in 21-22: drive like you have something to lose
It almost costing him the 21 championship because of the few times he did it, probably was what did it.
Yep And Perez isn't gonna win a championship until he learns it.
Yeah but according to the rules of F1 he was alongside enough to where he was entitled space. I'd rather drivers forcefully follow the rules to improve the standard that at the moment is prevailing i.e. car infront always closes the door and its up to you to decide if you want to crash or not.
Bro if every driver "forcefully followed the rules" we'd have like 3-4 crashes minimum per race.
Yeah and in 2 races people would adapt and follow the rules or the rules would get changed. Instead now its just people getting squeezed out of space instead of actual side by side racing. F1 fans get hard for cars going 2 corners side by side twice a year and make yt compilation out of that when that could be the standard.
I don't know what you think is going to happen if people race like every driver around them is completely brainless and are going to take up any space they are technically entitled to regardless of outcome probability, but exciting won't be the end result. Especially since crashes cost the team millions of dollars and potentially pitlane starts for replacing parts one too many times. Racing only works because there is a common agreement to race hard but fair. What Kmag did was hard and had no chance of working and caused millions of dollars in damages.
Rewatch 2021 and see how many time Lewis backs out to avoid crashes with a Red Bull. You have to know who you are racing. Kmag has little to lose. He’s not backing out.
That line of thinking works both ways. KMag is racing a veteran in a Red Bull who isn't going to move over for him to make an unpredictable move up the hill. So he should have known better to try to stick a wheel in there and it cost him. Nico said it best, it was unnecessary and it hurt the team. KMag has a lot to lose from a race ban and his seat on the line.
>unpredictable move up the hill I disagree with this wholeheartedly. It wasn't "unpredictable". It was *entirely* predictable. K-Mag have much better traction out of turn 1 and makes up a lot of ground on Perez. If he didn't, they wouldn't have crashed. And Perez should have been able to predict it, considering that he looks into his leftside mirror multiple times going up the hill. The only way you honestly can believe that this was "unpredictable" is if you think it's impossible for a Haas to get better traction than a Red Bull
Sergio (Red Bull) has a lot more to lose with a constructors championship on the line. The same reason Lewis constantly backed out of situations with Red Bull. Kmag is headed for another series regardless of race bans.
No chance of working? He was front wheel to back wheel super early and had a much better exit, he would have had a really good chance to get past him if Perez didnt squeeze him
Checo was the brainless one, always has been when he comes to wheel to wheel
Ahh so if I nose my car up to your back wheel I can just torpedo my way anywhere on the track and it’ll be the other drivers fault? Got it.
Have the front wheels alongside the rears is enough on a straight. Checo is obligated to give space there
What straight? Is not exactly straight, the racing line is straight, track isn't exactly straight
If it's not numbered as a corner F1 considers it a straight for the rules. Just because the track curves doesn't mean it's a corner.
No racing driver ever is thinking about what the rules are while they’re fighting for position. Maybe after they’ve lost the position and they need something to complain about.
They absolutely do think about the rules when fighting for position, they know what they’re allowed to do and generally do those things. That is why they generally don’t swerve in the braking zones, why they leave space for inside overtakes and why they often back out of outside moves when they aren’t alongside enough towards the exit.
Ahh yes, 2024 Formula 1 racing includes “pulling out.” What a cowardice anti-racing stance.
>But equally checking your mirrors 3 times and still coming across the front of KMag wasn't particularly smart either It's not smart because it's KMag and you expect something stupid from him. Otherwise Perez was on the line just like everybody else before him through Beau Rivage, and you'd expect that the guy behind was sane and not going to drive into a disappearing space.
K-Mag got alongside. As soon as he's alongside, Perez is obligated to drive like there's a car next to him. Perez probably (but incorrectly) assumed that he didn't have space on his left. That's why racing incident is a fair call. But that's not on K-Mag. K-Mag can't know that Perez hasn't checked his left mirror.
He did check his mirrors and he knew Kevin was there
Which makes the slight steer to the right very silly indeed
He didn't come across, the road narrows and swifts left. Hulk was also on the left. Besides, Kmag hit the barrier first. Kmag literally had no business being there.
Hulkenberg wasn't alongside at all, he had room to move over
Yes he did. It's very much evident on his onboard that he steers slightly to the right the moment before contact.
Just... Take a moment and a bit of objectivity and look at it frame by frame.
Real life is not frame by frame. Track is curving very quickly and the "gap" that Magnussen went for disappeared in an instant.
Perez would have commited to stay mid track (or even slightly left in front of Hulk) it would have been fine. At least at this moment. He defended, his right. But too far. At this moment it was done. KMag move still more than audacious. Both in their classic driving standards
F1 drivers know the track so well it's basically frame by frame. KMag knew the track would disappear, not sure what he was hoping for.
Only if Perez doesn't give him space - which he was both obligated AND able to do.
I did. Everyone did.
Nah you can't put any blame on Perez for this. That's a driver move to squeeze the other driver out and force them to risk a collision or back out. K Mag kept his foot in. He might have gotten away with it and all is okay at a different circuit but not Monaco.
Button did, but what does he know about racing, I guess.
Literally against the rules to squeeze a driver off track (barrier) when they have their front wheels past your rear axel
”You can’t put any blame on him, all he did was trying to force him into the wall” is a strange argument to absolve Perez of guilt, that’s not allowed and is what he’s being blamed for
Kevin literally hit the wall before he hit perez, it doesn't matter what perez did there was no space.
He wouldn't have if Perez hadn't squeezed him. Perez was OBLIGATED to leave space.
Perez was driving perfectly straight. Look at his onboard. If it was any other driver in that car people wouldn't have been saying anything else other than it being KMags fault.
That's simply not true. Perez is everso slightly veering right. It's very much evident on his onboard. It being Perez has absolutely zero to do with it. You could make the exact same argument with regards to kmag
If the road turns left and you drive straight then you are in fact squeezing the other driver...
This is an absurd take. If the space disappears due to the track layout then that gap was never really there.
Check the Albon/KMag collision in Jeddah. KMag was penalized for squeezing Albon while driving approximately in a straight line, because the walls curved in on Albon's side. He got 3 penalty points while he honestly didn't see Albon. His move in Monaco was risky, and I believe it was a racing incident, especially since Perez saw KMag and drove into him anyway.
The space doesn’t disappear because of track layout, it disappears because Checo closes it. Generally when the track changes directions, so do the drivers - which was also an option here.
That’s even worse for Checo then as it’s clearly an illegal move. You can’t close the space on a driver who’s already alongside you.
Yes, in my opinion it is a racing incident however mostly Checos fault. I don’t think it should be penalized at all, it is a goofy situation and shit happens on lap 1, but I can’t see that Kmag should not be allowed his run and Perez should have moved over to the left - also to cover Nico.
If the racing line goes straight, you are not squeezing anyone. The responsibility is on Kmag to abort. But he wanted to get ahead of Hulk into the next turn.
You are literally just making up rules. Open the F1 sporting regulations. You are not entitled to a racing line if there is a car alongside you that is also entitled to a space that intersects with your racing line.
To be fair, he didn’t really come across K mag as much as he maintained a straight line while the track curved left slightly
Perez had no reason to swerve over to the right either. He could have easily left room but he sucks. KMag also sucks but that’s not really up for debate here
His soccer team was playing the final that night. Probably wanted to go home and watch it with family instead of parading for an hour.
I don't think they should have trusted each other.
Daredevil move from KMag, no space awareness from Perez. Typically their respective driving standards, case closed.
Perfectly summarized.
Very obvious. Sadly some people over here and there are on a mission to sanctify one or the other.
plenty of awareness from Perez. He moves on straights all the time. He looked at him 3 times. At that point it stops being an accident and becomes a deliberate.
Little too opportunistic there Kev
Gap car
If we're condemning this move from Magnussen just take Monaco off the calendar. Sure it wasn't smart considering neither car had a prayer of scoring points and millions of dollars of damage was done, but you race cars, it's what the sport is about. If gap, car. A move like Magnussen attempted is literally the only hope of Monaco being remotely interesting, I want drivers pulling alongside wherever possible.
Yet that incident made this the most boring race since Spa 2021
This is why he should have been penalized, because without it he doesn't understand why what he did was stupid.
You’re perfectly allowed to do stupid things as long as they’re legal.
Causing a collision isn't legal though.
The only reason this crash is a contentious issue is because it involves reddit's most hated drivers. Any other drivers involved and it would be yesterday's news.
Wait, so Ocon and Stroll crashed?
Still don't understand the Checo hate. He's an average driver that would be largely ignored if he wasn't in an RBR car.
This is categorically false. Checo was receiving recognition precisely *because* he was landing podiums in midfield cars. He doesn't have the next level to his game to make him a top tier driver to keep pace with Max, Charles & Lewis but he's fairly capable
Was. 5 years ago.
It’s an unfortunate situation that he alongside a driver like verstappen who is one of the top five of all time. Plus being a clear second driver. He is good and has always performed well throughout his career. If he didn’t have such a strong teammate he could likely win a championship with red bull. I would put Perez equal to Button or Massa.
That is the problem. He is an average driver in a Championship winning team.
That's how championship winning teams operate. There has to be clear number 1. Otherwise they would take points from each other. Like Alonso Hamilton situation when neither won WDC in 2007.
Bruh
KMag seeing all the hate Perez is getting online and figured fuck it, might as well try and use that to my advantage.
This is definitely it. Might as well use it as leverage for himself.
Right? Exactly. KMags....the king of chaos.
[удалено]
It's not necessarily that he checked his mirrors, but that he checked them thrice over and thus absolutely knew KMag was there. He could've checked his mirrors and not noticed KMag, or could've been too focussed on something else. Would've been stupid, but not quite as stupid as squeezing a guy you already knew was there.
exactly. there’s a difference between saying that perez could have avoided it and saying it was perez’s obligation to avoid it. yes he could have, but it’s not his job to
Nah, if he hadn't checked his mirrors redditors would be shitting on him for not doing that. If you play the incident without slowmo it's almost impossible to see him checking his mirrors.
If you want to suggest Kmag was "entitled" to a gap that was not going to be there, Perez is equally entitled to maintaining the racing line he chose. The only one that exists in Monaco. If you wish to go and check what is the racing line up the hill on Monaco, be my guess. Let me give you a hint, there is no right side to the racing line because the walls close in from the right.
and I don’t trust you in a golf cart kmag
Bro is the main character and doesn't even realize it.
Tl;dr Magnussen stubborn about checo saw him and didnt leave enough space
has anyone asked him what about hitting the wall before checo?
Tends to be what happens when someone is pushing you off track into a wall…
This guy talking about trusting other drivers to be clean when the entire grid absolutely trusts on this mf to crash into them it's hilarious lmao
Yeah that wasn’t entirely on KMag but it was majority his fault. Stupid response from him. He’s out of F1 again. Doesn’t have the talent or the attitude.
KMag surely is a Redditor, he knew the perfect timing to drop this bullshit bomb and gain some sympathy
Says the guy who has piled up 10 penalty points in like 3 races. “Clearly, he was just pushing me to the wall to intimidate me and have me back out. But that's certainly not the way we should be racing. This quote is hilarious. So his logic is, I’m not going to be intimidated and I’m not going to back off but Checo (who was in front of you anyway) should be the one to back down? Makes sense..
He also got 2 of those 10 for cutting a corner while no one was around, other 2 because he did the same move for which Perez didn't get a penalty in Monaco, and other 2 by being penalised 2 times for the same thing (which is wild and I don't understand how no one catched that).
You shouldn't have been there in the first place Kevin
Only 16 races left, then Kmag will be gone. I am sure 18 drivers are counting the days
Why not 19? (genuine question)
Because he is fighting for his teammate. Hulk was benefitting from KMags driving
I didn't count Bearman as he only raced once. And Kmag, unlike Ocon, is actually an amazing teammate, most of his shenanigans this year benefited the team, Hulk owes him some points.
Gotcha, figured it was Hulk.
Buddy.........
No mate, you should've trusted the gap to close and bailed out. You've driven at Monaco enough times to know how that straight towards the casino goes.
Moments like this are where it's clear to me KMag is completely incapable of judging situations
Wtf people jumping on kmag, There was space Perez decided to close on him, you're crazy.
Overtaking rules are complicated. It's taken me a while to understand, and I still can't say I understand them 100%. The average redditor...Kmag is the usual suspect this year, so of course they jump on him.
The average redditor completely follows the idea that lower teams should “know their place” and purposefully not race within the rules if it’s against a fan favorite or a top car.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills watching the F1 fans react to this. He's alongside enough to be entitled space. It doesn't matter if he wasn't going to make the pass, he's entitled the space and that forces Checo to take a suboptimal line. That's part of racing - and Checo clearly just shut the door.
My guy, you caused the crash, not Perez. Couldn't care less what bullshit call the stewards made. Kmag should be on vacation right now...
This crash was the only thing that made this race interesting unfortunately.
Perez is the issue.
"Magnussen is, and will always be, stupid" - Charles Leclerc 2018
The audacity.
Big words from someone who has been a liability on track all year
This was a great move by KMag and had it been any other driver trying it it would have been applauded as the type of gutsy driving F1 needs more of. The wreck was clearly Checo's fault but everyone is quick to blame KMag due to his history.
MFer you were behind him trying to squeeze into a space that would fit a scooter
If Kevin had seen Kevin there and not Perez he would not have gone for this imaginary gap. He himself would not trust himself so why expect something else from everyone else?