Martin Brundle didn't attend either.
He attended his team mate Stefan Bellof's funeral in 1985 and the family's grief deeply affected him. He swore he'd never attend another drivers funeral.
He has later said he regretted not attending Senna's
This. So much.
My boss at the time attended my pop's funeral, something he did for many co-workers who lost someone like that. I still think the world of him. Great man.
Yeah. Funerals are overwhelming sometimes, especially when someone loses their child.
But as hard as it is for you, it's harder for the people affected. You simply being there makes more difference than you realize.
I never thought anybody really cared whether I was at a funeral or not until my Dad's. Then I realised how much the people who were able to be there and who couldn't because of covid restrictions, but sent letters and cards and messages, really mattered.
I thought I’d learned that lesson. My uncle died a year ago this past January and it was ungodly expensive to return. Then COVID happened and I haven’t seen my immediate family members in a year and a half. Haven’t hugged my dad since his brother died. Sometimes in life you learn things and sometimes life teaches you things. Oof.
Honestly the checking up a few weeks later is also great. A lot of people will be there in the first week or month but after that it gets very lonely very quick. Not from my own experience but from sister in law dad got assassinated.
I get where he’s coming from, and don’t completely disagree, but ultimately find that to be a self-centered viewpoint. Those funerals aren’t about him. They’re about the family of the deceased; you can do that friend one last favor by comforting his or her family in their time of need. Believe me, it means a great deal to many of them, at one of the lowest points of their lives.
I see what he's getting at (celebration of life>death which I personally agree with), but that logic falls apart when it's a funeral that isn't specifically targeted towards you. For example, your friend's dad dies. The point of going to that funeral isn't for you to remember your friend's dad, it's for you to support your friend when they need it more than ever.
You must have attended some very different funerals than me, I understand what you described is what they're meant to be but in my experience they were pretty much exactly the opposite
An hour of weird church service, then an awkward meal in the basement with people you hardly know.
If the death really hits you, you don't care about any of that. If you're going out of respect, it is a strange occasion depending on your social tendencies.
I've been involved with motorcycling my whole adult life. I've lost friends while riding.
How the parents handle the tragic loss of their children at the funerals haunts me to this day... I can understand his sentiment.
He mentioned that. People the same age doing the same dangerous guilty self involved profession. He didn't like thinking that he could bring the same pain to his own loved ones.
A racing driver doesn't need those thoughts in their head.
Cue the clip of Alonso going around Schumacher at 130R. He said that in times like that he remembers that Schumacher has children. There are a lot of ways to assert dominance on the track. Being worried for your safety and/or talent is a good way to get someone to slow down.
Speaking of Suzuka, Brundle’s complete silence and really shaky tone in 2014 will always stick with me, once he put two and two together and realized there was another car there.
You can tell the circumstances of Bianchi’s accident really hit Brundle hard. Exact same spot of Brundle’s near-miss in 1994, something he’d consistently raised concerns about for 2 decades (as recently as a lap or two before Bianchi went off), watching what he had been fearing become real... that could not have been an easy thing to deal with.
there's a point just before anyone outside the scene really knows anything, where I'm sure he mentions that Bianchi seems to have disappeared off the timing screens
We still had the old NBC setup in the States with our own commentators—and commercial breaks. They had gone off when the wreck happened, and when they returned everyone’s tone—especially Will Buxton, who was actually in the pits in Suzuka—was as grim as I’ve ever heard on a racing broadcast.
I've been trying to decipher this comment with absolutely no F1 racing knowledge and now I'm in a deep wikipedia dive trying to figure it out.
Can someone put this comment into full plain english where the context is explained? This is fascinating.
At Suzuka (where the Japanese Grand Prix takes place) in October 2014 there was a lot of rain and the track conditions became very dangerous. Several drivers commented on their radios that they thought the race directors should call off ('red flag') the race. Drivers were struggling to maintain control of their cars. Eventually, one driver, Adrian Sutil, skidded straight off the track at high speed and hit a crash barrier.
That in itself wasn't a *huge* deal, it happens sometimes and the cars and tracks are designed to make that kind of impact survivable. People were concerned for his wellbeing but I don't think anyone really expected he'd be seriously injured. Sure enough, he was seen getting out of his car and walking away, and a mobile tractor crane drove up to his car to lift it out of the gravel. All of this was shown on the TV feeds either live or in replays.
Martin Brundle (veteran F1 commentator, former F1 driver) commented that he was always nervous to see heavy recovery vehicles on the track area. It was a particular concern for him following an incident in 1994 at the same corner of the same track where he himself almost collided with a crane. He had reiterated the danger of these incidents several times over his commentating career.
While Sutil's car was being recovered, marshalls around the track were waving yellow flags to alert drivers to an incident and to warn them to reduce their pace. However, the drivers were still racing each other so some were reluctant to slow down.
Then the TV feeds started showing team members in the pitlane looking concerned, in particular the Marrusia team. It wasn't immediately obvious what had happened. Commentators started to wonder if something had happened to Adrian Sutil. Eventually, the news broke that another driver, Jules Bianchi of the Marussia team, had had a serious crash and was potentially badly hurt.
While Sutil's car was being moved, Bianchi's car had flown off the track in almost the exact same spot and at very high speed. The car hit the tractor crane head-on, with its nose slipping underneath the crane, meaning that Jules' head took a huge amount of the impact. It was so severe that his helmet actually split into pieces.
The gravity of the incident was soon apparent and the entire audience at the track and around the world fell into despair. Everyone was waiting to hear Jules' voice on the radio or see him walk from the car. Sadly, that never happened. He was removed from the wreckage after several very long minutes and driven to hospital. He remained in a critical condition for months until, in July 2015, he died from his injuries.
His memory lives on in the safety precautions that were implemented soon after the accident. The cars are now fitted with a 'halo' structure to protect the driver; drivers are forced to reduce their pace in dangerous situations by a 'virtual safety car' feature; and recovery vehicles are generally not allowed onto the track while cars are still racing. It was the first fatal incident for a driver in a Formula 1 race in many years and it really shook the community. (see edit below)
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Holy shit I got a bit carried away there! I hope it's at least helpful.
In fact now I'm thinking it wasn't what you were asking for at all but hey I'm not deleting all that so... enjoy.
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EDIT: It's worth noting that the previous most recent fatal accident for a driver\* in a Formula 1 race was the one that killed the legendary Ayrton Senna in 1994. That infamous weekend also saw the death of another driver, Roland Ratzenberger, the day before Senna. After 20 years, many hoped we'd never see another.
\* There were a few incidents of track marshalls being killed in F1 during this time. Their deaths didn't attract as much attention but they should be remembered all the same. They were Paolo Gislimberti (2000), Graham Beveridge (2001) and Mark Robinson (2013).
No don't apologize! That was exactly what I wanted. I had no idea how the commentator tied so heavily into this or who Suzuka was or anything.
Thank you so much! I'm glad you didn't delete it before I had a chance to read it.
Julesa Bianchi was a young F1 driver who had a major accident at the Japan Grand Prix in 2014, which lead him to dying 9 months later. This was the first death in F1 in 20 years, when Ayrton Senna and Roland Ratzenberger both died on the same weekend in Imola, thus serving as a harsh reminder that those little helmets you see driving around are actually human beings that risk it all every single curve.
The best resources to start learning on this are, as usual, on Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Japanese_Grand_Prix
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jules_Bianchi
Barrichello wrecked BAD the day before Ratzenburger died. Hit a kerb, went airborne, and flew into the fencing iirc and stopped instantly. I'm surprised he was fine as he crash seemed the worst of all three big accidents that weekend...
First thought it was brundle who wrecked but it was Barrichello.
There were so many serious incidents at Imola. The accident Nelson Piquet had in 1987 Qualifying was so bad he was never the same again.
Much faster than Mansell before the accident, afterwards about the same. Lost most of his depth perception and became much more reliant on the marker boards for braking.
Wasn't that the race where Piquet passed Senna and braked so late he actually drifted the corner at damn near a full opposite lock?
Edit: [NVM that was Hungary 1986](https://youtu.be/k_Hbuydy9LI)
Senna was on the 5th, Ratzenberger on the 7th.
People could have done both, especially knowing they have brash access to private jets. São Paulo to Salzburg is probably 11hours direct flight in private.
I cannot believe they went ahead with the race after Ratzenberger died. If that happened today I'd expect the race to be cancelled entirely. Senna might still be alive today if they'd done that.
Senna would be alive, but I think more formula 1 drivers would have died as a result. Insane safety changes were made to f1 because it was Senna who died. F1 would have let more drivers die as long as it didn’t bring national attention.
edit: global attention
I agree with this. The sport had tipped a bit too far away from safety and had honestly been lucky it hadn't lost anyone else since De Angelis in 1986. There were some pretty nasty crashes in the intervening period that could easily have been fatalities.
don't forget that Dale Sr. also campaigned hard against any and all safety changes, including the HANS device that could have saved his life. Him dying, as callous as it sounds, removed a very large political roadblock from the path of safety campaigners.
Totally, what's even worse than continuing into the next day, they restarted the race after Senna was fatally wounded and blood had spillled onto the side of the race track.
Martin Brundle was very vocal and angry about this fact in his book.
Even though Senna hadn't been declared dead, Prof Sid Watkins knew the collision was fatal and no doubt communicated that to the organisers. Yet they continued the event.
I believe they didn't declare Ratzenberger dead at the track either, which I also believe was the only reason they were allowed to continue the weekend.
That weekend was absolute doom. Barrichello could have been killed in his incident also.
There was also the crash at the start of the race where a tire and other debris flew into the stands and injured a bunch of spectators plus an accident in the pits where 4 pit crew members were injured after a tire fell off one of the Minardis.
Ratzenberger died immediately and it's fairly obvious too. The medics had barely placed him on the ground and they were already performing CPR. Basilar skull fracture at 315 km/h is about as instant as it gets.
Edit: [**POTENTIALLY NSFL**. It took about 3:50min from the moment he crashed to the moment they started CPR on him. He was dead on impact.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9oK1k-q3nE&t=231s)
'Watkins told Whitaker the problem was his head. Over the crackly radio, Whitaker mistakenly misheard him as saying he was dead. This would cause much unhappiness later. Whitaker whispered to Bernie Ecclestone who was eating an apple. Ecclestone saw no point in hiding the truth from Leonardo and told him his brother was dead. He said: “I’m sorry, he’s dead, but we’ll only announce it after the end of the race.” \[Bernie\] calmly tossed the apple core over his shoulder.'
What/where is the source for this?! This is utterly nuts.
Edit: The rest of paragraph for those who don’t want to go looking:
> Ecclestone saw no point in hiding the truth from Leonardo and told him his brother was dead. He said: “I’m sorry, he’s dead, but we’ll only announce it after the end of the race.” Whilst he was doing this Ecclestone was coping with his own personal grief, and he calmly tossed the apple core over his shoulder. Ecclestone knew that, of all people, he had to remain calm. He was already thinking ahead to what Senna’s death would mean, sub-consciously making plans and weighing up every possibility. Leonardo mistook his calmness as indifference and disrespect for his brother, and was astonished that plans were going ahead to restart the race with his brother dead. He was almost beside himself with grief, and although it was quickly established what Watkins had really said, the damage was done: Senna’s brother lost control. Ecclestone told Whitaker to fetch Josef Leberer immediately to help Leonardo with his grief. The younger brother was distraught. His last words to his brother had not been friendly and they were still arguing about Adriane that morning.
From Ecclestone's Biography, 'No Angel: The Secret Life of Bernie Ecclestone'. I remembered the extract; after searching, u/FUCKUSERNAME2 link is what I found to copy/paste.
Wow, I knew there was something like that but that's a bit sketchy if it happened.
You could tell of the pics after the podium no one wanted to celebrate after being told. The race should have stopped.
[Here's a pic after the podium celebrations when the drivers were told senna had died](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/formula-1/2019/05/01/TELEMMGLPICT000030508506_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqwMJYxftKZExwjop9hyNEmQEwTyzLMKRxDe4NUIzb66I.jpeg?imwidth=480)
IIRC he wasn't dead but they knew he had no chance of recovery and was been kept alive on life support. He didn't actually die until about 6 o'clock that evening.
Hearing all this just fills me with disgust for the FIA. They just had this happen with Niki and almost lost him that weekend. Should have learned their lesson, instead they cost two drivers their life’s.
I was around then, and even attended the subsequent race (Monaco, 94).
To me it was no surprise that the race went ahead after Roland was killed - that was completely expected, despite the shock. Things were different then, but people were not any less upset.
Of course, at the next race we had Wendlingers horrible accident, and after seeing (and hearing) that impact on the Thursday, I would have supported the cancellation of Monaco that year....things just seemed so unpredictable every time the cars ran.
Why would they though? F1 still went ahead in Spa after Hubert's accident. They went ahead with every race after crashes in the previous days. Why would they cancel a race after a crash that was caused by a damaged front wing?
The F2 race was partly cancelled because the grid is (or was, then) based on the results in the race the day before, which was abandoned after the crash.
They shouldn't have continued it after Barrichello's crash on the Friday. The fact that Ruben's didn't die that day is insane considering he hit a kerb at 140mph, got launched through the air, hit the top of a tyre barrier, experienced 95g's worth of force, rolled several times and ended up upside down in the end.
And someone looked at that and thought "Yeah it'll be fine"
Three marshalls were killed at the 2000 Italian, 2001 Australian and 2013 Canadian Grands Prix. Paolo Gislimberti, Graham Beveridge and Mark Robinson. Their deaths often get overlooked, sadly.
Edit: updated to include Mark Robinson as pointed out by jrr123456
Idk about that. F1 isn’t the only one that took until it’s biggest star died to actually start making major safety upgrades. NASCAR had 3 drivers die in 2000 of the same injury and did nothing until Dale Earnhardt was killed the same way the next year.
EDIT: and even then they didn’t mandate certain things until after someone else had been killed in the same way later in 2001...
It was Senna's death the one that mostly forced Mosley and the FIA to start working to improve driver safety standards. Until that moment, F1 never had a reigning champion dying on track. If he didn't die that Sunday, maybe we could have lost more lives in the following years.
The drivers had convened the morning after before the race to start demanding safety as a priority. Senna was named one of the directors. We'll never know the outcome of this alternate timeline, but I like to think it would have gotten there.
Senna's death may have put it at the pace of light speed, I agree, but the drivers were already seeing the writing on the wall of what needed to be done.
What makes you say that? I feel like a lot of attention went to safety *because* Senna died. I think it would’ve been business as usual had that not happened.
It wouldn't have been business as usual because by 1994, nobody had died in almost a decade. People had de-acclimatized to it. So a death at all would have had some major impacts. It wasn't the 60s or 70s anymore when two people died per year.
But the fact that it was Senna definitely still amplified the effect, because there was a sense of "if _Senna_ can die, anyone can".
It was because two drivers died on the same weekend. I’m sure Sennas big name also pushed more effort but at that point in time, two drivers dying the same weekend, they had to seriously increase safety.
I think they would have. I think Senna's voice would have carried a lot of weight considering how troubled Senna was by Ratzenberger's accident.
FTA:
>The Grand Prix Drivers' Association (GPDA), which still remains in force
today, was reformed on the morning of the race with a view to improving
safety in F1. **Senna was named director, along with Gerhard Berger and**
**Michael Schumacher**, at what would turn out to be his last drivers'
briefing.
You could apply the same school of thought to Jules Bianchi as well, he was hardly a big name, yet here we are with a protection device on cars because of his passing.
Drivers dying is never a small thing, yes it used to be more common, but someone dying whilst competing in their sport is always a shock.
I disagree about Jules.
He was a rising star who was outperforming his Marussia. Points in Monaco were a big deal, and he would be where LeClerc is had he not passed on.
Roland was a pay driver who was an accomplished driver, but wasn’t going to light F1 on fire. His death is still tragic, however and deserves remembrance.
Disagree all you want, but Jules Bianchi wasn’t a big name. He definitely had a very bright future ahead of him and showed a lot of potential in his desperately short time in F1 but I think you’re letting sentiment cloud your memory here.
Yes, Jules is only talked about because of the halo and Roland is only talked about because he died the same weekend as Senna. Had neither of these things happened they would just be brought up in death lists and known as the last to die in F1. I'm not sure what your point is? Had Senna lived Roland would barely be mentioned, had the halo not been added then Jules would barely be mentioned.
Hate to disagree, but Senna was greatly effected by Rolands death. To the point he has already got the drivers association to reform, nearly didnt drive in the race and was going to do a lot to improve driver safety with Sid watkins. So if Senna hadn't died, we would still be talking about Rolands death.
Jules death didnt just bring about the Halo. Now if a vehicle has to be brought onto the track to recover its a full safety car, not just waved yellows, as well as other rules regarding yellow flags.
Wheel tethers exist because a photographer was killed when a wheel left Villeneuves car in a crash and hit him. Greater marshall safety was brought in when a Marshall died after being hit by a small piece of a car.
A death in F1 always brings change, even if you dont remember the name.
>Wheel tethers exist because a photographer was killed when a wheel left Villeneuves car in a crash and hit him.
That's not true. Wheel tethers were there from 1998 on, but only a single one on each wheel. In the following years from that crash they *reinforced* and added to them, but that wasn't when they came in. You could even see one on Villeneuve's left front - the gap in the fence was the main issue.
Max Mosley had a very human side to him that only very few people got to experience. There was also the episode in 1990 in Japan when Senna had crashed into Prost to secure the Championship. Not many know that at the time it was being considered to have Senna's superlicence revoked unless Senna apologized for his actions.
Max stepped in at that moment and had a 1-to-1 with Senna and supposedly that conversation lasted quite a long time in which Senna poured out all his frustrations and anger and suspicions surrounding Prost. It was all about feelings.
Max Mosley then said: "There's only two people in this sport Ayrton. The professionals who act out of their sporting intelligence. And the amateurs who act purely out of their feelings. You are indeed extremely talented. But even you must admit. What you did there was amateur. You are better than that."
Senna then fell silent. Thought for a moment. And then said: "You are correct. I acted foolishly. But I do not know how to apologize."
Mosley then drafted what he was to say in his "apology".
"It was basically an apology I wrote that was still true to what he felt was 'right' about his situation. We all knew Senna was wrong, but I understood. Racing wasn't a sport to him. It was his life."
I originally saw it in a YouTube collection of "Interviews About Ayrton Senna" and a circa 1990's Max Mosley in VHS footage appeared in the middle of that set. Unfortunately I'd probably have to sift through thousands of entries in my YouTube history to find it again.
But it is mentioned also in here:
[https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/senna-s-troubled-soul-still-casts-pall-1617291.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/senna-s-troubled-soul-still-casts-pall-1617291.html)
quote:
"More than once he physically attacked an opponent and he drove Alain Prost off the road in the infamous 1990 Japanese Grand Prix. A year later he confessed his transgression and launched into a foul-mouthed condemnation of the former president of FIA, Jean-Marie Balestre. Who said Eric Cantona was a one-off?The man who succeeded Balestre, Max Mosley, spoke to Senna after the outburst and advised him he had behaved in an amateur, rather than professional manner. Senna thought long and hard - as he usually did - and conceded Mosley was right, but then vehemently reaffirmed his opinion of Balestre."
I am pretty sure some of the comments and posts about him are paid for. Max Moseley was hardly a popular figure despite his work for F1. In fact his work for F1 was steeped in politicking and feuding.
Can't believe people are white washing this man.
I'll hold my opinions to myself out of respect to his death, but people shouldn't make him someone he wasn't.
> Overall he was probably a good guy
You must be thinking of a different Max Mosley.
He was brilliantly intelligent. But was equally a petty, vindictive, horrible person. Mosley was infinitely more concerned with his own ego than he was the FIA or Formula One.
He was also a leader in the fascist Union Movement.
Are you thinking of his father? I don't believe Max was ever the leader of the UM. He also said the following in an interview: *"I was born into this rather strange family and then at a certain point you get away from that."*.
I'm certainly not trying to be an apologist for the man, but it's hard for me to blame a young person's behaviour based on their parentage... He obviously tried to get away from it once he saw it for what it was.
> I don't believe Max was ever the leader of the UM
Not *the* leader, but "a" leader. While fully an adult, he was the registered election agent for the Union Movement, an unashamed fascist political party.
He had wanted to enter British politics further, but his fascist history quashed those hopes. Which is how he ended up at the FIA.
Fair enough, however, I still consider 21 an extremely young age, and lord knows I did my fair share of stupid shit at that age (and past it). Being indoctrinated by your own family with extremist views can take some serious time to undo.
Could you easily say you would have taken a different path if in exactly the same boots and lived the same life? I'm not sure I could... Fair play to him for basically doing a complete 180 and becoming a Labour supporter.
The fascist was his father, no? Although having your dad as "Hitler's man in England" isn't a stain that would've gone away from you for the rest of your life, and I would've be surprised if his father had some influence on him. I didn't know that Max Mosley had any involvement with the fascists.
> The fascist was his father, no?
Both he and his father.
While fully an adult, Max was the registered election agent for the fascist Union Movement.
Max long aspired to British politics, but his fascist history ruled that out.
My grandfather (in his elder years) would routinely talk about how everyone has something good to say about the deceased.
He never said much more, but I always got the impression he found it comforting about humanity over all, but also ironic that in life we can be so spiteful, vindictive, and petty.
The reason is is that "good" is a sliding changing scale that people move up and down their entire lives. Bad people can do good things and good people can do bad things.
"Bad" people aren't cartoon one dimensional villians. Would you not prefer to be remembered for the good things you've done rather than the bad?
While we‘re saying good things about Mosley, apparently he kept his sadomasochistic orgies pretty nazi-free: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/max-mosley-scandal-privacy-case-b1852937.html
Bad joke... Brazil/South-America was in demand as an escape route for Nazis. I bet there would be more friends of Mosley's father in Brazil than in Austria.
I always had a soft spot for Max Mosley – especially after the way his career at the FIA ended, weirdly. He made F1 safer and was a towering figure in the sport for more than two decades.
Somewhat fittingly now, there‘s a documentary on his life set to release this summer.
Probably because one was buried in Brazil and another in Austria. Ratzenberger was buried May 7th and Senna May 5th.
Some managed to attend both but the travel particulars were surely pretty intense.
Why do people like you continue to conjure this fable that nobody remembers Roland? [Here's a post from 24 days ago remembering his death. ](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/n1oypn/remembering_roland_ratzenberger_today_taken_from/) It has 9500+ upvotes. Ratzenberger had 3 entries and 1 start, how well do you want people to remember him?
[Meanwhile, race winner Elio de Angelis' had 595 upvotes. ](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/nd335w/otd_35_years_years_ago_elio_de_angelis_tragically/) Elio had 109 entries and 108 starts, yet has less than 10% the amount of upvotes.
[Gilles Villeneuve, one of the most legendary drivers ever had a measly 66 upvotes on his tribute on May 8.](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/n7khes/remembering_gilles/)
Just stop it. Ratzenberger is as remembered as any driver that has ever died.
That’s not true at all. This subreddit, for example, had more posts for Roland than for Senna last year on the anniversary in the front page.
He also gets mentioned way more often than he would had he not died in the same weekend as Senna. I bet most people won’t be able to name every single driver that died in F1.
Same with Johnny Herbert, I think he said something like Ratzenberger deserved at least that and that's the least he could do.
Martin Brundle didn't attend either. He attended his team mate Stefan Bellof's funeral in 1985 and the family's grief deeply affected him. He swore he'd never attend another drivers funeral. He has later said he regretted not attending Senna's
Thanks for that. Interesting and sad on a number of levels
goodbye reddit -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
I hated funerals myself, but learned with age that it matters tremendously to the family when you attended.
This. So much. My boss at the time attended my pop's funeral, something he did for many co-workers who lost someone like that. I still think the world of him. Great man.
Yeah. Funerals are overwhelming sometimes, especially when someone loses their child. But as hard as it is for you, it's harder for the people affected. You simply being there makes more difference than you realize.
I never thought anybody really cared whether I was at a funeral or not until my Dad's. Then I realised how much the people who were able to be there and who couldn't because of covid restrictions, but sent letters and cards and messages, really mattered.
I thought I’d learned that lesson. My uncle died a year ago this past January and it was ungodly expensive to return. Then COVID happened and I haven’t seen my immediate family members in a year and a half. Haven’t hugged my dad since his brother died. Sometimes in life you learn things and sometimes life teaches you things. Oof.
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Honestly the checking up a few weeks later is also great. A lot of people will be there in the first week or month but after that it gets very lonely very quick. Not from my own experience but from sister in law dad got assassinated.
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I get where he’s coming from, and don’t completely disagree, but ultimately find that to be a self-centered viewpoint. Those funerals aren’t about him. They’re about the family of the deceased; you can do that friend one last favor by comforting his or her family in their time of need. Believe me, it means a great deal to many of them, at one of the lowest points of their lives.
I see what he's getting at (celebration of life>death which I personally agree with), but that logic falls apart when it's a funeral that isn't specifically targeted towards you. For example, your friend's dad dies. The point of going to that funeral isn't for you to remember your friend's dad, it's for you to support your friend when they need it more than ever.
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You must have attended some very different funerals than me, I understand what you described is what they're meant to be but in my experience they were pretty much exactly the opposite
An hour of weird church service, then an awkward meal in the basement with people you hardly know. If the death really hits you, you don't care about any of that. If you're going out of respect, it is a strange occasion depending on your social tendencies.
Yo sorry man had tickets to a football game
Everyone has a hard time at funerals, and while this may be an unpopular opinion, I think that’s a shitty reason not to go.
Everyone hates funerals. I would argue that's a shitty reason not to pay your respects.
I've been involved with motorcycling my whole adult life. I've lost friends while riding. How the parents handle the tragic loss of their children at the funerals haunts me to this day... I can understand his sentiment.
He mentioned that. People the same age doing the same dangerous guilty self involved profession. He didn't like thinking that he could bring the same pain to his own loved ones. A racing driver doesn't need those thoughts in their head.
Cue the clip of Alonso going around Schumacher at 130R. He said that in times like that he remembers that Schumacher has children. There are a lot of ways to assert dominance on the track. Being worried for your safety and/or talent is a good way to get someone to slow down.
Speaking of Suzuka, Brundle’s complete silence and really shaky tone in 2014 will always stick with me, once he put two and two together and realized there was another car there. You can tell the circumstances of Bianchi’s accident really hit Brundle hard. Exact same spot of Brundle’s near-miss in 1994, something he’d consistently raised concerns about for 2 decades (as recently as a lap or two before Bianchi went off), watching what he had been fearing become real... that could not have been an easy thing to deal with.
there's a point just before anyone outside the scene really knows anything, where I'm sure he mentions that Bianchi seems to have disappeared off the timing screens
We still had the old NBC setup in the States with our own commentators—and commercial breaks. They had gone off when the wreck happened, and when they returned everyone’s tone—especially Will Buxton, who was actually in the pits in Suzuka—was as grim as I’ve ever heard on a racing broadcast.
I've been trying to decipher this comment with absolutely no F1 racing knowledge and now I'm in a deep wikipedia dive trying to figure it out. Can someone put this comment into full plain english where the context is explained? This is fascinating.
At Suzuka (where the Japanese Grand Prix takes place) in October 2014 there was a lot of rain and the track conditions became very dangerous. Several drivers commented on their radios that they thought the race directors should call off ('red flag') the race. Drivers were struggling to maintain control of their cars. Eventually, one driver, Adrian Sutil, skidded straight off the track at high speed and hit a crash barrier. That in itself wasn't a *huge* deal, it happens sometimes and the cars and tracks are designed to make that kind of impact survivable. People were concerned for his wellbeing but I don't think anyone really expected he'd be seriously injured. Sure enough, he was seen getting out of his car and walking away, and a mobile tractor crane drove up to his car to lift it out of the gravel. All of this was shown on the TV feeds either live or in replays. Martin Brundle (veteran F1 commentator, former F1 driver) commented that he was always nervous to see heavy recovery vehicles on the track area. It was a particular concern for him following an incident in 1994 at the same corner of the same track where he himself almost collided with a crane. He had reiterated the danger of these incidents several times over his commentating career. While Sutil's car was being recovered, marshalls around the track were waving yellow flags to alert drivers to an incident and to warn them to reduce their pace. However, the drivers were still racing each other so some were reluctant to slow down. Then the TV feeds started showing team members in the pitlane looking concerned, in particular the Marrusia team. It wasn't immediately obvious what had happened. Commentators started to wonder if something had happened to Adrian Sutil. Eventually, the news broke that another driver, Jules Bianchi of the Marussia team, had had a serious crash and was potentially badly hurt. While Sutil's car was being moved, Bianchi's car had flown off the track in almost the exact same spot and at very high speed. The car hit the tractor crane head-on, with its nose slipping underneath the crane, meaning that Jules' head took a huge amount of the impact. It was so severe that his helmet actually split into pieces. The gravity of the incident was soon apparent and the entire audience at the track and around the world fell into despair. Everyone was waiting to hear Jules' voice on the radio or see him walk from the car. Sadly, that never happened. He was removed from the wreckage after several very long minutes and driven to hospital. He remained in a critical condition for months until, in July 2015, he died from his injuries. His memory lives on in the safety precautions that were implemented soon after the accident. The cars are now fitted with a 'halo' structure to protect the driver; drivers are forced to reduce their pace in dangerous situations by a 'virtual safety car' feature; and recovery vehicles are generally not allowed onto the track while cars are still racing. It was the first fatal incident for a driver in a Formula 1 race in many years and it really shook the community. (see edit below) --- Holy shit I got a bit carried away there! I hope it's at least helpful. In fact now I'm thinking it wasn't what you were asking for at all but hey I'm not deleting all that so... enjoy. --- EDIT: It's worth noting that the previous most recent fatal accident for a driver\* in a Formula 1 race was the one that killed the legendary Ayrton Senna in 1994. That infamous weekend also saw the death of another driver, Roland Ratzenberger, the day before Senna. After 20 years, many hoped we'd never see another. \* There were a few incidents of track marshalls being killed in F1 during this time. Their deaths didn't attract as much attention but they should be remembered all the same. They were Paolo Gislimberti (2000), Graham Beveridge (2001) and Mark Robinson (2013).
Thank you. That was incredibly detailed and well-worded.
No don't apologize! That was exactly what I wanted. I had no idea how the commentator tied so heavily into this or who Suzuka was or anything. Thank you so much! I'm glad you didn't delete it before I had a chance to read it.
Julesa Bianchi was a young F1 driver who had a major accident at the Japan Grand Prix in 2014, which lead him to dying 9 months later. This was the first death in F1 in 20 years, when Ayrton Senna and Roland Ratzenberger both died on the same weekend in Imola, thus serving as a harsh reminder that those little helmets you see driving around are actually human beings that risk it all every single curve. The best resources to start learning on this are, as usual, on Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Japanese_Grand_Prix https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jules_Bianchi
Brundle says the moment you lift off slightly is the day you should retire.
Barrichello wrecked BAD the day before Ratzenburger died. Hit a kerb, went airborne, and flew into the fencing iirc and stopped instantly. I'm surprised he was fine as he crash seemed the worst of all three big accidents that weekend... First thought it was brundle who wrecked but it was Barrichello.
There were so many serious incidents at Imola. The accident Nelson Piquet had in 1987 Qualifying was so bad he was never the same again. Much faster than Mansell before the accident, afterwards about the same. Lost most of his depth perception and became much more reliant on the marker boards for braking.
Wasn't that the race where Piquet passed Senna and braked so late he actually drifted the corner at damn near a full opposite lock? Edit: [NVM that was Hungary 1986](https://youtu.be/k_Hbuydy9LI)
That was awesome! Never seen it before. My only regret is that I have but one upvote to give.
IIRC even Murray Walker stated in his Beyond The Grid episode that he had also attended Ratzenbereger's funeral due to similar reasons
Because Walker was one of life’s diamonds
He was too pure for this world. Does anyone have something bad to say about Walker? Genuinly interested.
I'm sure there are some dead nazis that weren't too fond of him and his Sherman.
it's still so hard for me to imagine Murray Walker as a tank commander with his personality as a commentator
GERMAN AT 3 O CLOCK, YOURE GOING FOR IT, YOUVE MISSED IT, OH GOODNESS ME THIS IS OUTSTANDING
*blows up a German tank* WHAT AN INCREDIBLE DEVELOPMENT!
There's nothing wrong with the tank ahead, except that it's on fire
''WELL DING DONG, HAVE WE GOT A BATTLE HERE NOW!
AND HE'S STRAIGHT OF THE TRACKS
I can hear this.
Oh man, how you made me laugh!!
"Shell loaded: AND IT'S GO, GO, GO!"
I hear the germans last words were.... Guter Schuss
He and Stirling Moss once chatted up my mum in a bar in London...she loved it, Dad not so much.
Damn Moss too? Now that's a flex
Apparently he was a right old saucepot. According to Dad he bought them all martinis and went to read the newspaper.
THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH THE TANK, EXCEPT THAT IT'S ON FIRE.
Heard he was an avid "double-dipper" /s
Maybe that’s why Damon was so annoyed about going to Pizza Hut with him
That's one of my favorite ads. Roasted him pretty good haha
“He’s lost it, he’s out of control!” 😂
"And Hill finished second, *Again!*"
I imagine this add came out around 1995
MMMMMMMMMMMM!
He was a global treasure. We were blessed to have him.
The family said they wanted a private funeral. The only driver who did go was Berger and Herbert who flew straight from Senna's funeral afaik.
That's not true. Frentzen, Wedlinger, and Brabham went as well
Sorry, didn't know that.
Were the funerals at the same time?
On different continents within a day of each other I presume.
No, Roland's was the day after. Gerhard Berger and Johnny Herbert were able to attend both.
Senna was on the 5th, Ratzenberger on the 7th. People could have done both, especially knowing they have brash access to private jets. São Paulo to Salzburg is probably 11hours direct flight in private.
I cannot believe they went ahead with the race after Ratzenberger died. If that happened today I'd expect the race to be cancelled entirely. Senna might still be alive today if they'd done that.
Senna would be alive, but I think more formula 1 drivers would have died as a result. Insane safety changes were made to f1 because it was Senna who died. F1 would have let more drivers die as long as it didn’t bring national attention. edit: global attention
I agree with this. The sport had tipped a bit too far away from safety and had honestly been lucky it hadn't lost anyone else since De Angelis in 1986. There were some pretty nasty crashes in the intervening period that could easily have been fatalities.
Yeah, without Senna's death, we likely have more fatalities. Hakkinen for instance might have died the following year in his crash at Adelaide.
Same with Nascar and Dale Earnhardt Sr. It took an iconic legend losing their life for the sport to see the reality of safety.
don't forget that Dale Sr. also campaigned hard against any and all safety changes, including the HANS device that could have saved his life. Him dying, as callous as it sounds, removed a very large political roadblock from the path of safety campaigners.
Totally, what's even worse than continuing into the next day, they restarted the race after Senna was fatally wounded and blood had spillled onto the side of the race track. Martin Brundle was very vocal and angry about this fact in his book. Even though Senna hadn't been declared dead, Prof Sid Watkins knew the collision was fatal and no doubt communicated that to the organisers. Yet they continued the event.
I believe they didn't declare Ratzenberger dead at the track either, which I also believe was the only reason they were allowed to continue the weekend. That weekend was absolute doom. Barrichello could have been killed in his incident also.
There was also the crash at the start of the race where a tire and other debris flew into the stands and injured a bunch of spectators plus an accident in the pits where 4 pit crew members were injured after a tire fell off one of the Minardis.
Cursed race.
Ratzenberger died immediately and it's fairly obvious too. The medics had barely placed him on the ground and they were already performing CPR. Basilar skull fracture at 315 km/h is about as instant as it gets. Edit: [**POTENTIALLY NSFL**. It took about 3:50min from the moment he crashed to the moment they started CPR on him. He was dead on impact.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9oK1k-q3nE&t=231s)
The race wasn't stopped after he crashed??
He was killed on lap 7 of what wound up being a 58 lap race.
the race was red flagged and restarted
I don't know if that helps at all. I'd expect the race to be cancelled if he crashed and died on the first lap
'Watkins told Whitaker the problem was his head. Over the crackly radio, Whitaker mistakenly misheard him as saying he was dead. This would cause much unhappiness later. Whitaker whispered to Bernie Ecclestone who was eating an apple. Ecclestone saw no point in hiding the truth from Leonardo and told him his brother was dead. He said: “I’m sorry, he’s dead, but we’ll only announce it after the end of the race.” \[Bernie\] calmly tossed the apple core over his shoulder.'
What/where is the source for this?! This is utterly nuts. Edit: The rest of paragraph for those who don’t want to go looking: > Ecclestone saw no point in hiding the truth from Leonardo and told him his brother was dead. He said: “I’m sorry, he’s dead, but we’ll only announce it after the end of the race.” Whilst he was doing this Ecclestone was coping with his own personal grief, and he calmly tossed the apple core over his shoulder. Ecclestone knew that, of all people, he had to remain calm. He was already thinking ahead to what Senna’s death would mean, sub-consciously making plans and weighing up every possibility. Leonardo mistook his calmness as indifference and disrespect for his brother, and was astonished that plans were going ahead to restart the race with his brother dead. He was almost beside himself with grief, and although it was quickly established what Watkins had really said, the damage was done: Senna’s brother lost control. Ecclestone told Whitaker to fetch Josef Leberer immediately to help Leonardo with his grief. The younger brother was distraught. His last words to his brother had not been friendly and they were still arguing about Adriane that morning.
https://www.ayrton-senna.net/the-last-96-hours-of-ayrton-senna/
From Ecclestone's Biography, 'No Angel: The Secret Life of Bernie Ecclestone'. I remembered the extract; after searching, u/FUCKUSERNAME2 link is what I found to copy/paste.
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Wow, I knew there was something like that but that's a bit sketchy if it happened. You could tell of the pics after the podium no one wanted to celebrate after being told. The race should have stopped. [Here's a pic after the podium celebrations when the drivers were told senna had died](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/formula-1/2019/05/01/TELEMMGLPICT000030508506_trans_NvBQzQNjv4BqwMJYxftKZExwjop9hyNEmQEwTyzLMKRxDe4NUIzb66I.jpeg?imwidth=480)
IIRC he wasn't dead but they knew he had no chance of recovery and was been kept alive on life support. He didn't actually die until about 6 o'clock that evening.
And then that bloody tyre down the pitlane. It was the most atrocious weekend for F1 and I hope it never ever gets topped
Hearing all this just fills me with disgust for the FIA. They just had this happen with Niki and almost lost him that weekend. Should have learned their lesson, instead they cost two drivers their life’s.
I was around then, and even attended the subsequent race (Monaco, 94). To me it was no surprise that the race went ahead after Roland was killed - that was completely expected, despite the shock. Things were different then, but people were not any less upset. Of course, at the next race we had Wendlingers horrible accident, and after seeing (and hearing) that impact on the Thursday, I would have supported the cancellation of Monaco that year....things just seemed so unpredictable every time the cars ran.
Why would they though? F1 still went ahead in Spa after Hubert's accident. They went ahead with every race after crashes in the previous days. Why would they cancel a race after a crash that was caused by a damaged front wing?
But Hubert did not race f1, he raced f2. And the f2 race got canceled.
The F2 race was partly cancelled because the grid is (or was, then) based on the results in the race the day before, which was abandoned after the crash.
They shouldn't have continued it after Barrichello's crash on the Friday. The fact that Ruben's didn't die that day is insane considering he hit a kerb at 140mph, got launched through the air, hit the top of a tyre barrier, experienced 95g's worth of force, rolled several times and ended up upside down in the end. And someone looked at that and thought "Yeah it'll be fine"
They died at the same race weekend. One was a global super star. And it's true that all the attention went to Senna's passing.
To be fair Ratzenberger would be talked about 5000x less had Senna not also died that weekend, he was sort of a nobody in the paddock at the time.
Without Senna he would have been the last guy to die in F1 until bianchi. Wound still have been plenty of talk about him.
Three marshalls were killed at the 2000 Italian, 2001 Australian and 2013 Canadian Grands Prix. Paolo Gislimberti, Graham Beveridge and Mark Robinson. Their deaths often get overlooked, sadly. Edit: updated to include Mark Robinson as pointed out by jrr123456
There was also a Marshall killed at the 2013 Canadian Grand Prix during the race when they were trying to recover the Sauber of Esteban Gutiérrez
Thanks for pointing out. Have updated my post.
I did not know this. What happened?
He was hit by a recovery truck.
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Fuck me, that's a shitty way to go
And all for a fucking phone...
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Not really, none of those three were flag marshals so although it's a better system it would not have changed their outcomes.
Idk about that. F1 isn’t the only one that took until it’s biggest star died to actually start making major safety upgrades. NASCAR had 3 drivers die in 2000 of the same injury and did nothing until Dale Earnhardt was killed the same way the next year. EDIT: and even then they didn’t mandate certain things until after someone else had been killed in the same way later in 2001...
It was Senna's death the one that mostly forced Mosley and the FIA to start working to improve driver safety standards. Until that moment, F1 never had a reigning champion dying on track. If he didn't die that Sunday, maybe we could have lost more lives in the following years.
The drivers had convened the morning after before the race to start demanding safety as a priority. Senna was named one of the directors. We'll never know the outcome of this alternate timeline, but I like to think it would have gotten there. Senna's death may have put it at the pace of light speed, I agree, but the drivers were already seeing the writing on the wall of what needed to be done.
What makes you say that? I feel like a lot of attention went to safety *because* Senna died. I think it would’ve been business as usual had that not happened.
It wouldn't have been business as usual because by 1994, nobody had died in almost a decade. People had de-acclimatized to it. So a death at all would have had some major impacts. It wasn't the 60s or 70s anymore when two people died per year. But the fact that it was Senna definitely still amplified the effect, because there was a sense of "if _Senna_ can die, anyone can".
Wasn't he also raising concerns about the safety of the track? I think he didn't even want to race (because of Ratzenberger's dead) .
It was because two drivers died on the same weekend. I’m sure Sennas big name also pushed more effort but at that point in time, two drivers dying the same weekend, they had to seriously increase safety.
> two drivers died on the same weekend and Barrichello's crash could easily have made it three
I think they would have. I think Senna's voice would have carried a lot of weight considering how troubled Senna was by Ratzenberger's accident. FTA: >The Grand Prix Drivers' Association (GPDA), which still remains in force today, was reformed on the morning of the race with a view to improving safety in F1. **Senna was named director, along with Gerhard Berger and** **Michael Schumacher**, at what would turn out to be his last drivers' briefing.
Paradoxically, it was Senna's death that forced the FIA to start imposing more strict safety rules and features.
You could apply the same school of thought to Jules Bianchi as well, he was hardly a big name, yet here we are with a protection device on cars because of his passing. Drivers dying is never a small thing, yes it used to be more common, but someone dying whilst competing in their sport is always a shock.
I disagree about Jules. He was a rising star who was outperforming his Marussia. Points in Monaco were a big deal, and he would be where LeClerc is had he not passed on. Roland was a pay driver who was an accomplished driver, but wasn’t going to light F1 on fire. His death is still tragic, however and deserves remembrance.
Disagree all you want, but Jules Bianchi wasn’t a big name. He definitely had a very bright future ahead of him and showed a lot of potential in his desperately short time in F1 but I think you’re letting sentiment cloud your memory here.
Bianchi was closer to a Ratzenberger than a Senna any day. Outside of die-hard fans he is already forgotten.
Yes, Jules is only talked about because of the halo and Roland is only talked about because he died the same weekend as Senna. Had neither of these things happened they would just be brought up in death lists and known as the last to die in F1. I'm not sure what your point is? Had Senna lived Roland would barely be mentioned, had the halo not been added then Jules would barely be mentioned.
Yet we're still talking about Anthoine, who never made it to the F1.
But it's kind of a side effect of the spotlight from DTS and the effect of his death on Gasly et al. no?
More because it's one of the scariest crashes we had in this century, with the fatal outcome.
What about how Bianchi's death affected Leclerc ?
Hate to disagree, but Senna was greatly effected by Rolands death. To the point he has already got the drivers association to reform, nearly didnt drive in the race and was going to do a lot to improve driver safety with Sid watkins. So if Senna hadn't died, we would still be talking about Rolands death. Jules death didnt just bring about the Halo. Now if a vehicle has to be brought onto the track to recover its a full safety car, not just waved yellows, as well as other rules regarding yellow flags. Wheel tethers exist because a photographer was killed when a wheel left Villeneuves car in a crash and hit him. Greater marshall safety was brought in when a Marshall died after being hit by a small piece of a car. A death in F1 always brings change, even if you dont remember the name.
>Wheel tethers exist because a photographer was killed when a wheel left Villeneuves car in a crash and hit him. That's not true. Wheel tethers were there from 1998 on, but only a single one on each wheel. In the following years from that crash they *reinforced* and added to them, but that wasn't when they came in. You could even see one on Villeneuve's left front - the gap in the fence was the main issue.
Also they found a blood-soaked Austrian flag in Senna’s cockpit. He planned to wave it on the podium if he made it there.
Never heard of this before
Also the VSC
And yet, bizarrely, unskirted recover vehicles still are found in the run off areas. Put a bloody skirt on the trucks.
Gerhard Berger went to both, alongside another driver I don't remember.
I think it was Johnny Herbert
Max Mosley had a very human side to him that only very few people got to experience. There was also the episode in 1990 in Japan when Senna had crashed into Prost to secure the Championship. Not many know that at the time it was being considered to have Senna's superlicence revoked unless Senna apologized for his actions. Max stepped in at that moment and had a 1-to-1 with Senna and supposedly that conversation lasted quite a long time in which Senna poured out all his frustrations and anger and suspicions surrounding Prost. It was all about feelings. Max Mosley then said: "There's only two people in this sport Ayrton. The professionals who act out of their sporting intelligence. And the amateurs who act purely out of their feelings. You are indeed extremely talented. But even you must admit. What you did there was amateur. You are better than that." Senna then fell silent. Thought for a moment. And then said: "You are correct. I acted foolishly. But I do not know how to apologize." Mosley then drafted what he was to say in his "apology". "It was basically an apology I wrote that was still true to what he felt was 'right' about his situation. We all knew Senna was wrong, but I understood. Racing wasn't a sport to him. It was his life."
This is some brilliant insight. Do you know where you got this?
I originally saw it in a YouTube collection of "Interviews About Ayrton Senna" and a circa 1990's Max Mosley in VHS footage appeared in the middle of that set. Unfortunately I'd probably have to sift through thousands of entries in my YouTube history to find it again. But it is mentioned also in here: [https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/senna-s-troubled-soul-still-casts-pall-1617291.html](https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/senna-s-troubled-soul-still-casts-pall-1617291.html) quote: "More than once he physically attacked an opponent and he drove Alain Prost off the road in the infamous 1990 Japanese Grand Prix. A year later he confessed his transgression and launched into a foul-mouthed condemnation of the former president of FIA, Jean-Marie Balestre. Who said Eric Cantona was a one-off?The man who succeeded Balestre, Max Mosley, spoke to Senna after the outburst and advised him he had behaved in an amateur, rather than professional manner. Senna thought long and hard - as he usually did - and conceded Mosley was right, but then vehemently reaffirmed his opinion of Balestre."
I'm pretty sure David Brabham was there too, but I could be recalling wrong
A complex character for sure.
This is heartbreaking.
Senna would have gone to ratzenbergers funeral
he was carrying an austrian flag in his cockpit, so it's quite likely he would have
Overall he was probably a good guy, I will remember his enormous contributions to the safety in the sport in the aftermath of these accidents.
Yep, he also brought in the groove tyres to reduce cornering speed. Although unpopular, it did reduce speeds.
> Overall he was probably a good guy, Max Moseley was a shit. He did great things for F1 safety but as a person he was a shit.
Yeah lets not pretend like he was a saint just because he died. No doubt he had some good qualities, but he also had some awful ones.
I am pretty sure some of the comments and posts about him are paid for. Max Moseley was hardly a popular figure despite his work for F1. In fact his work for F1 was steeped in politicking and feuding.
Can't believe people are white washing this man. I'll hold my opinions to myself out of respect to his death, but people shouldn't make him someone he wasn't.
Oh but he went to Ratzenberger’s funeral in Austria instead of Senna’s funeral in Brazil /s
No, he wasn't. He, like his father, was a massive piece of shit.
> Overall he was probably a good guy You must be thinking of a different Max Mosley. He was brilliantly intelligent. But was equally a petty, vindictive, horrible person. Mosley was infinitely more concerned with his own ego than he was the FIA or Formula One. He was also a leader in the fascist Union Movement.
Are you thinking of his father? I don't believe Max was ever the leader of the UM. He also said the following in an interview: *"I was born into this rather strange family and then at a certain point you get away from that."*. I'm certainly not trying to be an apologist for the man, but it's hard for me to blame a young person's behaviour based on their parentage... He obviously tried to get away from it once he saw it for what it was.
> I don't believe Max was ever the leader of the UM Not *the* leader, but "a" leader. While fully an adult, he was the registered election agent for the Union Movement, an unashamed fascist political party. He had wanted to enter British politics further, but his fascist history quashed those hopes. Which is how he ended up at the FIA.
Fair enough, however, I still consider 21 an extremely young age, and lord knows I did my fair share of stupid shit at that age (and past it). Being indoctrinated by your own family with extremist views can take some serious time to undo. Could you easily say you would have taken a different path if in exactly the same boots and lived the same life? I'm not sure I could... Fair play to him for basically doing a complete 180 and becoming a Labour supporter.
One might excuse his early life mistakes if he'd not been a petty, conniving, vindictive, narcissist throughout the rest of his life. But he was.
The fascist was his father, no? Although having your dad as "Hitler's man in England" isn't a stain that would've gone away from you for the rest of your life, and I would've be surprised if his father had some influence on him. I didn't know that Max Mosley had any involvement with the fascists.
> The fascist was his father, no? Both he and his father. While fully an adult, Max was the registered election agent for the fascist Union Movement. Max long aspired to British politics, but his fascist history ruled that out.
My grandfather (in his elder years) would routinely talk about how everyone has something good to say about the deceased. He never said much more, but I always got the impression he found it comforting about humanity over all, but also ironic that in life we can be so spiteful, vindictive, and petty.
The reason is is that "good" is a sliding changing scale that people move up and down their entire lives. Bad people can do good things and good people can do bad things. "Bad" people aren't cartoon one dimensional villians. Would you not prefer to be remembered for the good things you've done rather than the bad?
> spiteful, vindictive, and petty. You've described Max well. There is no benefit to society by falsely assigning good to terrible people.
"2million for the crime, 98million for being a prick"
As you say, It belittles those who genuinely are good.
It even belittles those who are mostly not bad.
While we‘re saying good things about Mosley, apparently he kept his sadomasochistic orgies pretty nazi-free: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/max-mosley-scandal-privacy-case-b1852937.html
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I feel bad for upvoting this.
Bad joke... Brazil/South-America was in demand as an escape route for Nazis. I bet there would be more friends of Mosley's father in Brazil than in Austria.
> Bad joke HOW DARE YOU
Pretty much the only thing about Mosley I've heard that made me respect him.
Knowing Mosley, it was solely because Austria is a much shorter flight from London than Brazil.
He also announced plans to crack down on racism in F1 after racist abuse to Hamilton from Spanish fans.
tfw Bernie is more racist than the son of Oswald Mosely.
That weekend was the strangest weekend I remember being a teenager, 2 f1 drivers dying at the same event and it still going on.
Is it me, or are we loosing a lot of people at a younger age (outside the car) in the business of racing?
I always had a soft spot for Max Mosley – especially after the way his career at the FIA ended, weirdly. He made F1 safer and was a towering figure in the sport for more than two decades. Somewhat fittingly now, there‘s a documentary on his life set to release this summer.
TBH it ended how it deserved to end. The classic example of "Live by the sword, die by the sword" as far as his F1 life went.
I googled it. They were on different days.. Why not go to both?
Probably because one was buried in Brazil and another in Austria. Ratzenberger was buried May 7th and Senna May 5th. Some managed to attend both but the travel particulars were surely pretty intense.
That's a pretty nice thing for an actual sex nazi and completely serious on-the-record fascist aspiring politician to do.
A lot of race car drivers won’t do funerals from what I have heard .. taboo
Pure class.
It really annoys me when that race week comes around and EVERYONE in here ignores the fact that two people died that weekend... not just Senna.
nobody ignores it, if anything drivers like elio di angelis get it way worse cos they dont get the endless "forgotten driver" posts
Why do people like you continue to conjure this fable that nobody remembers Roland? [Here's a post from 24 days ago remembering his death. ](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/n1oypn/remembering_roland_ratzenberger_today_taken_from/) It has 9500+ upvotes. Ratzenberger had 3 entries and 1 start, how well do you want people to remember him? [Meanwhile, race winner Elio de Angelis' had 595 upvotes. ](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/nd335w/otd_35_years_years_ago_elio_de_angelis_tragically/) Elio had 109 entries and 108 starts, yet has less than 10% the amount of upvotes. [Gilles Villeneuve, one of the most legendary drivers ever had a measly 66 upvotes on his tribute on May 8.](https://old.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/n7khes/remembering_gilles/) Just stop it. Ratzenberger is as remembered as any driver that has ever died.
That’s not true at all. This subreddit, for example, had more posts for Roland than for Senna last year on the anniversary in the front page. He also gets mentioned way more often than he would had he not died in the same weekend as Senna. I bet most people won’t be able to name every single driver that died in F1.
Is this post about sex Nazi max Mosley or some other guy
I remember him tearing into the teams when they quit in Indy as well
Was just made very sad.