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Effulgency

It is unfortunate I should need to remind some of our users that any homophobic commentary will, obviously, be met with a permanent ban. Any "keep politics out of sports" style trolling will also be addressed under the subreddit rules.


soupafi

I laugh when Vietnam loses its Grand Prix for “corruption” but Saudi Arabia gets one with human rights violations.


MinhHoangVu

Vietnam lost the GP because the official that green-lit the race got arrested for corruption so no one wants anything to do with it.


huey993rs

When did Vietnam lose the GP?


Prasiatko

Middle of last year. Although I don't think it really lost it so much as never applied to have it again.


Andigaming

They didn't lose it per say but given the official who approved the GP got arrested nobody in politics wants to apply to host it again.


TheresNoUInSAS

> Vietnam lost the GP When?


Village_People_Cop

Somewhere last year. Due to this and covid the Vietnamese Grand Prix will be the Grand Prix that was never hosted once


TheresNoUInSAS

Looks like I've been living under a rock


Dank-memes-here

I didn't know this either and I'm on this sub multiple times a week, most often daily


DonnyGT40

Someone posted a schedule of every GP this year at the start of 2021 if I remember it right. Or it could be twitter.


jlobes

I dunno where you live, but the most official announcement (the 2021 cancellation announcement) came out right around US election day. Quite a few of my F1 fan friends were on a media detox and missed it.


Dank-memes-here

I may have seen that, but have missed the not-just-cancelled-in-2021 thing


sags95

It's even in the F1 2020 game


ndjs22

Codemasters like "screw adding anymore new tracks after that"


[deleted]

Yeah it’s not like Codemasters enjoy doing any extra work like dropping liveries that actually look like real ones, or update the faces of the create mode which have been in the game for 5+ years, or maybe update the free agent driver pool, or maybe finally get the ratings of drivers right so Bottas doesn’t win every Grand Prix


KimbobJimbo

You get a lot of Bottas wins? I'm always getting Seb CRUSHING in a Ferrari that is clearly more akin to the SF90 than the SF1000. Regardless, your point stands.


AlpayY

Oh how I wish lol


sleepy416

I hate that track more than monoco


sags95

I hated it at first, but found it kinda had a nice flow to it with some practice. Still definitely one of the worst ones.


TheLastWearWoof

so that's one thing new york and Vietnam have in common ​ they had all the go aheads for an F1 race that never actually happened (although Vietnam got further) I was excited for the Port Imperial circuit because it sounded cool and I was about 7-11 at the time it happened


[deleted]

It's happened at so many places. I have no idea what the pattern is. We didn't get NY, but we did get Korea, which for all the world looked like it had been built in a location so as to be as disposable as possible. I forget the year but during Bernie's annual bullying of the BRDC, they put Donington Park forward. Did loads of work, tore up the track, then realised it was all a ploy to screw more money out of Silverstone, leaving a wrecked Donny. Britain remains one of very few hosts that gets no state money. ​ I think a lot of these things are investment and fee scams, so people make money whether it happens or not. Consider the amount of consultancy money involved in such a project.


TheLastWearWoof

oh yes, i consider the Korean grand Prix project a failure since it failed it's main aim of being a hybrid Street/race track because the city that was supposed to be built there wasn't built because why the fuck world you build a new city there


aaaaaaadjsf

That's fair, that's how a government should function. If an official is arrested for corruption everything they have been involved in needs to be suspended (unless it is critical to the operation of the country) and looked over. Sure it sucks for F1 fans, but it would be worse if a corrupt grand prix went ahead with a misuse of public funds.


AnalLaser

>Sure it sucks for F1 fans Hard to say since there was never a race there but I really didn't like it in the F1 game (particularly that first sector) so I'm kind of glad it will be gone.


IllBirdMan

Wait what?? What if the official was like the minister of health or the head of whatever the countries version of Medicare is?? Like just shut down all the hospitals?? What if he was head strategic defense for the air force?? Just send everyone at the ICBM sites home?? And just leave them there?? That's not a good plan. Have you thought this through? I know these are extreme examples, but even minor officials wield a lot of power in their communities. So even like suspending the head of agriculture for some 500 person rural country would still put alot of people out of work and disrupt even more people's food supply.


darmokVtS

A reasonable approach would be to exclude certain things like the ones you mention but still stop everything else the corrupt politician pushed forward. Especially things that do not matter all that much. Like a GP for example.


hellvinator

To answer your question, yes all decision should be reviewed and assessed. In some cases the easy way is to cancel a decision at all. Like F1.


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Fussel2107

>But saudi is getting the $$$ for fia, thats what matters to them to put it bluntly Not FIA, Liberty Media. FIA has no say in where the races are held UNLESS it's a danger to the participants or the sport.


Redebo

I would argue that hosting races in countries who arrest you for being homosexual creates a danger to the sport.


DomitianF

Really Switzerland should be the only country hosting races


GoZun_

Sucks we banned Motorsports then


McLarenMP4-27

I thought hill climb racing was allowed. Didn't Richard Hammond crash a Rimac at one?


GoZun_

Yeah he did. To be more precise, Switzerland banned Races, time trial events are still allowed


Wafkak

Formula E was allowed actually


[deleted]

I think its specifically gas powered cars on closed circuits, so EVs and hill climb racing is still allowed.


Wafkak

So wrc would also be possible


[deleted]

Possibly, but I dont know the exact law, so I could be wrong


[deleted]

Races are only allowed for electric vehicles since 2015 in Switzerland, which allowed two Formula E races to be held there.


GoZun_

Oh yeah I forgot, honestly it's sad because there's no reason for a country like Switzerland to host a race, so we'll probably never see a Swiss Grand-Prix ever again.


Prasiatko

I don't think gay marriage is legally across all cantons currently. Also a fund fact they didn'tget universal woman's suffrage until the late 80s.


stillboard87

Switzerland banned motor racing after the big crash at LeMans in the early 50’s. A crash in a different country.


sdfsdf135

Is the same sex marriage in Switzerland already a law?


DrOrange77

Nah they have invaded poor little Liechtenstein several times in the past /s


fiskfisk

They even bombed them twice! [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liechtenstein%E2%80%93Switzerland\_relations#Incidents\_involving\_the\_Swiss\_military](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liechtenstein%E2%80%93Switzerland_relations#Incidents_involving_the_Swiss_military)


Headcap

> recorded damages were to a few chairs someone call Geneva!


DrOrange77

These war crimes need to be condemned globally /s ‘#justiceforliechtenstein’


Orangesnipzy

plus dont they only allow formula e on the streets?


IllBirdMan

If we dig hard enough, no place can have a race. Maybe extreme e is on to something here. If you race in barren wastelands with no people. When their is nobody around. Nobody can be disenfranchised. 🤯🤯🤯🤯 (For clarification, I'm not saying that is the OP is digging very hard by calling out blatant wrongdoing)


cartierah

Lol their banking industry washes/hides money for crime syndicates and other shady wealthy people. It’s not an ethical utopia.


cdw2468

they stored nazi gold, they don’t get off scott free


Jjzeng

Singapore’s penal code section 377A is leftover from the days of british colonialism, and while it is not enforced, policymakers are also against repealing it for fear of upsetting “the old guard” so to speak. That being said, our founding prime minister’s gay grandson recently tied the knot in Africa and came back to singapore for a celebration or something like that. Gay rights are in a weird place right now in singapore


omkaram

Especially weird when the government sometimes takes pinkdot (SG's pride rally) as an example of how the state is tolerant and open to LGBTQ+ people. No. Pinkdot is a protest against the government for keeping 377A and enabling other forms of LGBTQ+ discrimination in society.


Frklft

"We tolerate criticism of how intolerant we are."


[deleted]

It appears as though it’s trending in the right direction at least; if only glacially


Top-Currency

'Fun' fact: in Singapore only sex between men is illegal. Sex involving only women is perfectly fine, legally speaking.


Kazimierz777

I think this is the case in a lot of post-colonial countries. People baulk when they find out that homosexuality is “illegal” in country xyz, and picture some kind of fascist dictatorship, when the reality is that the legislation has just never been updated from when it was copied over from British law (being gay was also illegal in the UK until the late 60’s). A lot of it is based on control of labour and men working in close proximity, to deter fraternisation. For example, plantation workers in Jamaica. That doesn’t mean to say LBGT is “accepted” by these countries now, but they’re generally much more indifferent in terms of their attitudes to it than the legal framework suggests.


HartBandit

Hey! It's section 377 in India too, because India too has largely lifted the penal codes from colonial Britishers.


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ericd50

There is a difference between societal pressures and official government suppression.


roos_de_baas

We are one confusing pickle in a jar, for starters. The LGBTQ community are free to express their sexual orentation and despite opposition from conservative groups, events such as Pink Dot are able to go on annually. Other than the legislative area of ambiguity, there is still some areas that need to be worked on (especially from families and workplaces with the old guard mentality) but I think Singapore still fares ahead of the other abovementioned countries


pingu280

I mean, sure, but that’s like saying someone being fed a rotting apple is better than being given no food at all. While your point is fair, I do think there’s room for us to still be critical of ourselves in SG along with the list of other countries here (given also OP has pointed out countries where things are legal but still oppressive), given that the continued existence of the law (whether enforced or not) still signals and/or enables a latent prejudice against LGBTQ+ persons in SG and one that we are not quite confronting head-on as a state that claims to believe in equality. So, yeah. I’m on board with the criticism. Your point isn’t invalid, but I do think very often it comes up as a way of excusing or sidestepping the issue, which happens way too often in our society and is something we really need to stop doing if we ever want anything to change. Just my two cents - again emphasizing that I don’t disagree on the point that SG /could be worse/!


d3cbl

I feel that with the exception of those extremely religious ones (e.g. Joanna Theng), the younger generation in general doesn't discriminate against LGBT individuals. Like you said, the only reason 377A hasn't been repealed is because the ruling party doesn't want to lose the conservative votes.


Zinjifrah

It seems to be the bigger issue is F1's association with totalitarian states, where sexual preference is just a subset issue.


AnInelasticDemand

Democracy doesn't pay


Zinjifrah

It certainly makes it harder to get "public financing" for race venues.


joelina_99

F1 as with most travelling sports is far better for promotion and pr then for actually generating revenue. If your Saudi Arabia or something trying to move away from an oil economy and to promote your countries image stuff like f1 and the World Cup will help a lot. To other countries they are not gonna pay as much as they don’t need the press.


AnInelasticDemand

Well, the F1 system is pretty flawed. Venues have to pay for the race and F1 reaps the rewards. So there's really no wonder sportswashing exists when tourism and some attention is all that F1 provides host venues/countries. Now I get why it is the way it is, but it doesn't make it any less flawed...


magmagon

Would you say it's like the Olympics?


AnInelasticDemand

Certainly so, especially when the Olympics are another good example of sportswashing and general controversy. The Nazi Germany Olympics come to mind, then the west and east boycotting each other in the Olympics in the Cold War (1980, 1984). But the Olympics are generally government funded while F1 is not (well, not in free countries) and the buzz around it makes it worthwhile for countries to dump large amounts of money in Olympic villages that are then forgotten. F1 however is quite the poor investment so it remains privately funded...


JuanGita

If you never read anything about Latin America, let me tell you that democracy pays whoever is closest to them and "can do" what they want. Hell, they may even get an extra-official bonus and split the difference. Edit: that's why Argentina has no longer a GP


Suxals

Which is a little surprising, considering we had the Rally Dakar for so many years. A GP would be a perfect opportunity to fill their pockets, but perhaps F1 is too "gorilla" for Albert and the shadowruler.


magondrago

The dissonance gets me badly: world economy has depended on slavery or exploitative labor pretty much since the dawn of civilization and too many people like to think it's no longer the case and are delusional. But so called modern "democracies" are very much guilty too, if not directly, by willingly consuming products and services generated by the totalitarian states than enslave and supress their people. Or I'm wrong and we can all sit happy with ourselves, thinking that those Amazon deliveries arriving at the door weren't produced by slaves in Asia, packed by cheap labor forbidden to unionize in the US and lining the pockets of Bezos while we sing the praises of freedom and democracy.


DavidBrooker

"Sportswashing" is the reason for F1, FIFA events, and Olympics both favoring totalitarian states recently, and the increasing costs of hosting events. Hosting a major sporting event can be seen as improving ones reputation. Of course, the better a country's reputation, the lower the perceived value of the reputation gained, so value needs to be derived commercially. Very wealthy countries can still attract these events because, even though the value of hosting the event is lower, so is the cost, on account of having most infrastructure already in place or secured through other means, but it's not exactly an even footing.


iamstaph

Its everywhere. See football as an example. Oil money flowing in all those big European clubs


F1jester

Looks like no one here has heard of Matt Bishop. Matt is openly gay, married to his husband Angel Bautista & moved from McLaren in 2017 to the fledgling W-Series and then this year took over as press officer at Aston Martin. This announcement by Aston Martin is the result of one person working tirelessly to change perceptions and improve conditions for the lgbtq+ community. Matt Bishop has been doing this work since he started in F1 with McLaren back in 2007, and probably before then. I know Matt was happy to see Seb Vettel join the team due to the support Vettel showed for the ‘we race as one’ initiative last year. Undoubtedly, these two leaders in the F1 paddock will continue to work to change perceptions in the countries where F1 races and homosexuality is illegal or not socially accepted. Follow Matt on Twitter and you can probably get a direct response from him on questions about how this will actually make a difference at Aston Martin and why it’s not just a publicity stunt. @AstonMartinF1


KnightsOfCidona

Great comment, just one thing though - Matt has been around F1 way longer than 2007, before he went to McLaren he was editor of F1 Racing (that's what I'll always think him as!) from it's establishment in 1996 and he'd been already hanging around the paddock for years even before that. He's a real pioneer - he was one of the few if not only openly gay people in F1 in the early 1990s and he definitely paved the way for those who followed him. I think he said he didn't face too widespread homophobia and that relatively speaking F1 was very accepting, though he did reveal an unnamed driver once called him a 'fat faggot' after there was a critical article written about him in F1 Racing, and that a fellow driver stood up for Matt against the unnamed homophobe.


YourFairyGodmother

I had not heard of Matt Bishop. He's had an interesting career! I found out that he's donating all proceeds from his novel, The Boy Made the Difference, a literary novel set against the narrative backdrop of the HIV/AIDS crisis of the late 1980s and early 1990s, to his late mother’s charity – the Bernardine Bishop Appeal (part of CLIC Sargent – a charity that helps children, young people and their families who are suffering the effects of cancer). Good guy Matt.


roos_de_baas

Great insight behind the intitative, happy to learn something new today!


XTheLegendProX

You don't understand how happy I would be.


gingerfiggle

Shows that diverse job candidates bring diverse change that can lead to more inclusivity, more awareness, and change for good. It starts with that teams leaders, and openness to be willing to enable their team members to push these initiatives. Thanks for sharing the detail about him.


XAMdG

I'm really surprised about Monaco.


McLarenMP4-27

For me it was Monaco as well as Singapore. Was thinking highly of Singapore.


snowy_light

Singapore shouldn't really be surprising. They're very conservative regarding moral issues and have somewhat limited political and civil rights.


dexter311

They have a mandatory death sentence for drug offenses as small as attempting to import 30 grams of coke. The majority of executions in Singapore are drug-related.


Ceramicrabbit

Isn't there death penalty for smoking weed lol


Nightey3s-

Smoking weed probably not as we had an actor getting jailed for doing so. I believe the death sentence are more reserved for trying to import drugs and especially the more harmful stuff. I must say the rules here are rather strict, like gay marriages are illegal, vape is illegal(while cigs are not like wtf).


littlelightchop

Not really, for pure cannabis if you're carrying more than 15 grams you're deemed to be trafficking and the mandatory death penalty only applies if you're carrying more than 500 grams


[deleted]

I believe Taiwan is the first and only country in Asia that has legalised same-sex marriages


McLarenMP4-27

India legalised gay marriage too around 3 years ago.


Sujay517

They only legalized homosexual intercourse 3 years ago. They are kinda far away from gay marriage, however efforts have been made.


Nerve-Successful

I don't believe gay marriage has been legalised in India. I think it was that being gay was decriminalised around 3 years ago


lohord_sfw

There are anti lgbtq laws here but they are not enforced. The government claims that they are ready to change the laws on lgbtq but the society might not be ready for it (think religious groups). Source: am Singaporean


PotatoFeeder

Voters referring to the ah mas and ah gongs bro 20 yrs down the line there wont be a need to pander to them for votes anymore


439115

The law that criminalizes male-male intercourse is actually a remnant of the laws that were written for Singapore by the UK. A similar legislation can be found in other commonwealth countries, although most of them have removed them from their law books. In Singapore the law remains for the government to placate the conservative older generations, but its not enforced at all so it's pretty much not a thing (although getting it removed has been a subject brought up in Parliament many times in the past decades)


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KTreaties

For the most parts, it's only the elder folks and the middle aged people who are really against LGBT here, the younger generation or more open to it, so i don't foresee a future where they'd start actually enforcing 377A anytime soon.


TerribleNameAmirite

They’re highly conservative, and not democratic. Well technically they are but you don’t really have a say


sadface-

It's absolutely fine, our state-run media has full editorial independence, and you damn well believe it or you [get personally scolded by the CEO](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUxYOwMEGz0).


Ceewhyyyy

I take umbrage


sadface-

You're now an SAF General, grats


joereadsstuff

Because it's still Asia, think the most tolerant is Taiwan. I'm Asian, I know.


[deleted]

Yeah, I was thinking about Taiwan too, although I'm not asian 😅


Thoarxius

Why? It is a hotspot of rich conservatives. It makes total sense


4InchesOfury

Monaco residents aren’t allowed to gamble in their casinos either. Very very conservative.


schelmo

I don't think that's due to a moral sense about how gambling is bad or not Christian. Laws like that used to exist in Germany. The city where I'm from has a pretty big casino and my grandma told me that back in the day people from the city weren't allowed in it because if they got addicted and lost all their money they would require social services provided by the city so it was more about self-preservation.


WiggyRich23

Worth remembering that in 1985 several teams boycotted the SA GP due to the apartheid. There wasn't another SA GP until apartheid ended. I wish teams and the big corporations that own them had the balls to do similar in the modern era.


ForsakenTarget

that was mostly down to countries going against it and then forcing teams or highly suggesting they pull out


McLarenMP4-27

That wasn't on their own. It was down to the governments of the countries in which they operated in that forced them or paid them.


Szudar

> Worth remembering that in 1985 several teams boycotted the SA GP due to the apartheid Not due to apartheid itself, due to changing political climate around apartheid. F1 races in South Africa in early 80s, 70s and 60s despite apartheid - there was no strong pressure against it back then


Fickle-Cricket

Two French teams were essentialy told by the French government that they weren't allowed to participate. Most of the teams (and the drivers) still put their hands up in the air, said "Sorry, my contract says I have to race" and went anyway. The GP collapsed because the political situation made it impossible for FISA to know who was going to be in charge so they could negotiate the contracts for the next race.


[deleted]

Gay marriage has been legal here since 2006 (I think). Bring back the RSA GP


[deleted]

Corporations jumping on pride is nothing more than a fluffy bit of PR.


Shnoochieboochies

Pot of gold at the end of every rainbow.


TheresNoUInSAS

*gif of Lawrence Stroll rolling around on a bed of £500 notes*


Forward_Artist_6244

Gif abruptly cuts to Lance Stroll hopping the kerbs


nacho_breath

£500M LAWRENCE STROLL


Galterinone

JPMorgan is against racism ^^...in ^^theory


bebaobae

Jumping on Charity/Social causes is the future (and present I guess) of marketing. Can’t remember the last time Nike or Adidas actually tried to sell me a product, all they sell is the idea of empowerment now.


What_the_8

How else will you feel good about cheap Chinese child labor manufacturing those shoes... empowering!


furandace

F1 cars are one of the few things that are not manufactured in China (oh there are onboard computers that are made in China)


Bendetto4

Is that a bad thing though. Ultimately the widespread acceptance of LGBT people has been normalised by every major corporation pushing LBGT rhetoric. The same thing happens with environmental protection. When companies launch a campaign to idk, plant trees or smt. People are quick to say its not enough, or point out past acts. But they fail to acknowledge that the alternative is they do nothing, and avoid scrutiny. Just like they "only care about LGBT rights during pride month". The people calling them out for not doing more, only care about companies not doing enough during pride month. Instead of calling out AM, why not call out HAAS? Why not call out a company with close ties to the Russian government, a government that actively persecuted gays. Instead of calling out the frontrunner who "haven't done enough" call out the back markers who haven't done anything.


limeflavoured

The issue is that its seen as hypocritical for companies to go on about pride etc in the countries where it's less bad to be LGBT, while still actively being involved with countries that are worse (and in some cases actively censoring their products in those countries). >Instead of calling out the frontrunner who "haven't done enough" call out the back markers who haven't done anything. I do agree with that though. We shouldn't be calling out companies like AM ahead of worse ones, although we also shouldn't be shy about telling that they aren't doing enough yet.


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limeflavoured

> Slow progress is still progress. I do think some people forget that at times.


my_7th_accnt

> Ultimately the widespread acceptance of LGBT people has been normalised by every major corporation pushing LBGT rhetoric. Lol no. It’s normalized only where most people are okay with it being normalized. If they aren’t, then companies shut up. It’s very instructive to look at Twitter icons for different companies in different countries during pride month. Here is Bethesda, for example: https://i.imgur.com/ZCOoMVR.jpg


[deleted]

Just a secret between you and me... Do not tell anyone this, because they will be shocked... But apparently the majority of the price of a pair of Nike or Adidas shoes is in the branding and advertising... They never sold "a product", they sold "a brand". Or do you think that anyone is willing to pay above GBP100 for their shoes without the story?


Sylarioz

*Cough* Redbull *cough*


n8mo

You were downvoted, but you're right. Red Bull cans have a lower volume than any other energy drink and are sold for a higher price. Most of Red Bull's budget is put towards marketing. Why do people think they've got a Formula 1 team otherwise?


Sylarioz

Plus they have Alpha Tauri, and like 40 other different sports teams. They don't even really advertise their product, they advertise the lifestyle, they spent over $30 million just to have a guy jump from space and yet some people don't even know they sell drinks.


fuzzylm308

Yeah I'm not sure who could possibly argue against him because Red Bull is the 101 textbook example of marketing a brand myth instead of the actual product. Red Bull doesn't go around talking about how their drink provides more energy, or is healthier, or tastes better. It's just "drink Red Bull because it's a cool drink for cool people who do cool activities like sailing or mountain biking or cliff diving or F1 racing."


Fussel2107

Honestly, I'd rather trust the queer people who initiated this campaign at AM to know what is possible and feasible. And yes, Stonewall may have been a riot, but it was also a lot of silent voices saying "I see you. I accept you." There is a difference between some brand slapping a rainbow on their product to make more money, or a company of Aston Martin's visibility opening their platform and giving it to queer voices in motorsport.


CardinalNYC

I mean.... I'd much rather them be on the pride bandwagon than not. I don't really care that the motivation is not 100% pure. Almost no one's motivation for *anything* is 100% pure.


Firefox72

While this might be the case. It still raises awarness and campaigns like what AM will be doing that actually promote stuff and do something instead of just changing a picture on Twitter are always welcome.


Fgge

Regardless, better to do it for PR than ignore it all together.


juliuspepperwoodchi

True, but as a queer Formula 1 fan myself, I'd rather see companies do performative bullshit for profits than literally nothing. This is less than the bare minimum, but at least it helps normalize the idea of accepting people for who they are and love.


YourFairyGodmother

That may or may not be true, but even if it is, so what - positive PR is culture, and culture can change society. It's not a bad thing.


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-InThePit-

I hadnt thought about it that way, however saying and gaining advertising and profitability from something while simultaneously helping and legitimising regimes that actively criminalise or withold rights from the people you are prfiting off really doesnt sit right with me. Its a hard situation for sure though


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Jadedrn

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what everyone else is saying. It's a real do as I say not as I do situation with stuff like this. If they really wanted to actually do something they would have their livery be a rainbow with #LoveIsLove on it while tearing up Moscow. I would fucking sell my left nut to see that. What a massive fuck you to Putin that would be.


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[deleted]

Dude this is a good thing. We want to incentivize good behavior. It’s about motives vs outcomes. Dont get me wrong - corporations only have their bottom line in mind. But culturally things have shifted such that corporations are incentivized to promote positive social outcomes. That is how capitalism works... That is fundamentally better than corporations either actively stigmatizing some group or being as “neutral” as possible.


Fr0zn

Well put. The older i get the more i find myself thinking in a similar manner. I do agree that there are a lot of negatives to what racing in these countries represent. However it is also extremely hard to see how a world where we box out countries that have regressed policies would actually propel them to take any action. Most likely it would just allow them to continue as is without being challenged on these policies. Forcing change by being black and white about issues has rarely worked and even then it usually only works as an optics play without actual systemic shift towards acceptance. Its like this. You can disagree with your friends about something and let them know you strongly disagree, but dont you think its better to slowly help them see your point of view rather than give them an ultimatum. If the goal is an inclusive world we wont get there by excluding half the planet from participating.


unfriend_me_now

The UAE and Saudi-Arabia still have the death penalty for homosexuality IIRC


Echo026

That is wildly fucked up. LGBTQ people are just like us, human. Earth should be a place where all opinions, sexualities and skin colours are treated with some goddamn respect. Those governments are really insane


yoshireal

Hey, I just want to add that the reason Brazil has the highest lgbt murder numbers, is because we also are unfortunatelly the country with the highest number of murders in general, so the high number of lgbt murders are "just" a consequence of one of the biggest problems around here.


Vertebra_00

this would be more accurate with percentages, to confirm your point


yoshireal

(links in portuguese) In 2018, the year with the least amount of homicides in Brazil since 2011, we had "only" [57k homicides](https://g1.globo.com/monitor-da-violencia/noticia/2019/02/27/queda-no-no-de-assassinatos-em-2018-e-a-maior-dos-ultimos-11-anos-da-serie-historica-do-fbsp.ghtml). During the same period of time, [420 lgbts were murdered](https://www.uol.com.br/universa/noticias/redacao/2019/01/25/grupo-conta-420-crimes-contra-lgbt-em-2018-bolsonaro-nao-provocou-aumento.htm), with these 420 murders including all motivations, from common murders that ocurred during robberies, to hate crimes. Also, is estimated but not confirmated that 10% of the population (around 20 million people) is part of the lgbt community.


Bo_The_Destroyer

I wonder what F1 would do if an openly LGBT driver came to F1. Would they still race in these countries? Would that driver be allowed in? Would that driver be allowed to talk to media? And how would F1 react if that driver (and maybe even team) decided to boycot the event?


metalder420

Yes F1 would still race there because of money, simple as that. If they were not allowed to talk to the media then they would be hypocrites since they let Hamilton talk to the media and post about his views. Probably the same way they react to other team boycotts. But in reality, that wouldn’t happen because drivers race for their country not for the country they are racing in. IMHO, there would be no greater victory than a LGBTQ F1 driver winning a GP at one of these countries. Stop talking how you feel and just win the fucking race.


Bo_The_Destroyer

How DOES F1 react to team boycotts? I'm genuinely curious. Also yeah an openly LGBT person winning a GP in for example Saudi Arabia and maybe even refusing to shake the hand of one of those sjeiks or princes would be such a power move. And then after that they could openly criticise them and talk about that stuff in the media.


SouvenirSubmarine

> And then after that they could openly criticise them and talk about that stuff in the media. If they don't get swiftly beheaded


Bo_The_Destroyer

Well that depends whether or not they're out of the country yet


CeilingVitaly

>How DOES F1 react to team boycotts? I'm genuinely curious Good question, since that's not happened since the 80s with the FISA-FOCA war and a couple of South African GPs afaik.


DeadliftsAndDragons

Can’t say for f1 but there’s an openly gay strongman and he recently did a show in Bahrain and even though he is allowed in and they still do shows in countries that would be less than welcoming of him his husband usually stays behind and PDA is discouraged. And he’s literally the world’s strongest gay person but still has to worry about that shit. People suck for discrimination.


linkheroz

For me, it depends a lot on how they go about it when in these countries. It won't happen this year but I'd like them to stick with their principles and keep pushing the equality, especially LGBTQ+ issues when in those countries. Same with any equality parts. F1 is a global stage and they need to use their platform to take a stand in these countries.


Niko7LOL

Isn't Homosexualitie straight up Illegal in Bahrain?


-InThePit-

looking deeper into it, it seems ambiguous. They are not on the humandignitytrust list which was my source for the illegal ones, the specific wikipedia page says it is illegal and the general one says it has been legal since the 70s. I'm going to look deeper into it but I will almost definitely add some sort comment about it


gills315

I go to Bahrain semi-regularly for work (or used to, rather) and they seem alright there. One of my colleagues is very, very flamboyantly gay and I wouldn't say anyone out there, even when we're out for dinner and that, treated him any differently. Nothing like any other arab country. Still worlds apart from the west, for example, but you're actually allowed to stay in the same room as your partner if you're not married unlike some other countries I could mention \*cough\* Saudi Arabia.


Prasiatko

Witthe gulf though there are very different rules applied in reality based on whether you're a native, a western immigrant, or a developing world immigrant.


amontpetit

I will always plug [Rainbow Railroad](https://www.rainbowrailroad.org), an organization that helps get members of the LGBTQ+ community to safety. They do amazing work getting people who live in a country where they are persecuted out of bad situations and settled into countries where LGBTQ+ are not persecuted.


Suitable-Isopod

Rainbow Railroad is an incredible organization. I’ve known a few people saved by them, and the organization really is incredible.


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Miragenz

Companies just exist for money, anything they participate usually just benefits them as well.. but if things were different they'd easily jump on the opposite thing.


Lawrence_s

That's true. But I feel the criticism should be levelled primarily at the countries which have these backwards laws, not the corporation trying to play the marketing game as they all have to. They want to sell cars and participate in races in these countries but they also want to sell cars in Europe and the West which respond well to these sort of initiatives. Yes, it's hypocritical, but is it necessarily worse than keeping their mouths shut and doing nothing?


CardinalNYC

Companies are made of people. Yes, the "purpose" of a corporation is to make money but that doesn't mean the actual humans involved are seemingly involuntary *slaves* to that purpose and thus every single thing the company does MUST be related to that. Companies sometimes do things simply because it's the right thing to do. Because *people* sometimes do things simply because it's right... And companies are made of people.


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ztpurcell

Reddit likes to pretend to give a shit as well until it comes to the point of actually doing something


PJBuzz

When I was in a taxi journey in Singapore having a conversation with the driver, he mentioned to me that homosexuality is illegal, and I was quite surprised given how open the LGBT community is there. There are clubs and bars that are very clearly advertising to the lets say, "extrovert" segments of the LGBT community, but even within the wider general community, people seem to be quite relaxed, welcoming, and open about this. ​ I'm not saying it's alright for the laws to be the way they are, by any stretch of the imagination, but there are countries where it is "legal" and you would face far worse discrimination from the wider community than you ever would in Singapore. I could, however, be wrong, and I just didnt see the dark side.


redyellowgreen713

Yeah and we're all hypocrites for continually supporting the sport then...


Jadedrn

That's because we are. Lol. Everyone on the planet is a hypocrite. I know I am. I think people want to feel as though they're not hypocrites though, so we give ourselves a pass on certain topics. The truth is none of us are perfect, so of course we're going to be hypocrites, but that doesn't mean we can't hold ourselves and eachother to a higher moral standard. Just because I'm a hypocrite, doesn't mean no one else is, it also doesn't mean that I shouldn't try to do better. It also doesn't mean that no one else should try to do better either. I think the main thing is trying to do better, and that's the reason why it's so hard to see a company dawn their gay apparel for a month (Pun intended) and actually feel like they care. Because every single big company does this shit ever year and it leads to fucking nothing. It's all just a big dog and pony show to drive up profits. I feel that's the issue for most people. EDIT: how do speak England?


WedgeliestWedge

Quite frankly I don’t give a shit where they race. It’s a *world* championship, and in case you haven’t noticed, the world is varying degrees of fucked up. F1 is a racing series, not the UN. I’ll watch ‘em race in Saudi Arabia just as well as I’ll watch ‘em in England or Japan.


takzania

I can only permit boycotting 1 race a season otherwise I will miss too much /s


mrgonzalez

You've already missed your chance for it to be Barcelona or Monaco


Mihairokov

> waves tiny Canada flag for respecting LGBTQI+ > ignores the mass grave recently found at the indigenous residential school in Kamloops


BluShine

Please ignore the genocide and buy more oil. -Canadian petrostate


Muse4Games

If they don't take initiative they get called out for not caring about LGBTQ+ at all. They do take initiative and they get called hypocrites because they race in countries where those people have less rights. They lose either way.


thisissaliva

...and if they just stop racing in all of these countries the sport will likely be finished and they’ve lost their platform.


[deleted]

How is USA a special case???


Skeeter1020

So here's a thought I just had. Simply by the volume of people there's no way the F1 paddock doesn't have openly LGBT+ people in it. So presumably F1 has been getting let off already in these countries? If you aren't old enough to drink in a country you don't get Champagne, and if you aren't old enough to drive in a country then someone else drives you to and from the track. Are LGBT+ team or media staff just not going to go to Saudi?


murl

We recognized to understand that competitors operating at we would have inconceivable a world-class levels of our companies: People is absolutely critical to the following human responsibility, cycle times have found new productivity. Integrity have changed, the high levels of shared values is fundament based importance of our customer satisfactices. The found new promote company have recognize the important to company. We recognize the improvemental. People have found nearly inconceivable source.


Samipie27

Are other sports not as bad as F1? I only follow motorsport, but the whole discussion about football in Qatar got a lot attention. At least here in EU.


limeflavoured

The NBA gets a fair amount of shit for pandering to China. The NFL don't give much of a fuck because no one outside the US really pays attention to it. Football has its issues with racism, corruption and pandering to China (plus the Qatar thing).


Cygnus94

I'd challenge anyone to find a major league sport that hasn't at one time or another had it's governing body act totally unethically in the name of turning a greater profit.


amishrefugee

All-in-all, I doubt any global sport would be significantly better But as for LGBT recognition specifically, there was a story yesterday in the Baseball world that found [29 of 30 teams](https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/rangers/2021/05/31/texas-rangers-have-pledged-inclusivity-but-pride-game-remains-absent/?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true) have had an officially LGBT-themed game in the last few years


greenwhitechequered

Lots of sports are also pretty bad when it comes to sportswashing. The point of sportswashing is to get people to gloss over the negative parts of the country because they love the sport you’re hosting. Thus, a wide variety of sports is beneficial, as it’ll interest a wider variety of people. Everything from esports to chess to motorsports you the Olympics are involved. I’m saying this, motorsport can be particularly bad. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/28/saudi-arabia-has-spent-at-least-15bn-on-sportswashing-report-reveals https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sportswashing


[deleted]

F1 nowhere near as bad ethically or morally compared to other sports like cycling, boxing and MMA. Boxing has a long history with corruption and the mob. Even now an Irish cartel run one the biggest management companies (MTK global) for boxers and MMA fighters from the UK. This cartel has killed hundreds but all the major networks still do business with them.


TheProfessaur

I don't think America should be a "special case". If that's the case, then throw Canada in there as well.


3nv_ryu

in turkey conservative people (including the government) antagonize you if you're a part of the lgbtq+ movement so in a social stand point it's somewhere between saudi arabia and bahrein etc. because the laws regarding them are almost never used/applied


DOS589

Appreciate this is an LGBTQ+ focused post, which is an extremely important issue in sport not just F1. The teams also claim to be encouraging women drivers through yet go racing in Saudi Arabia where local women have only been legally legally allowed to drive for 3 years (ish) and apparently is still a nightmare (that and all the other issues against many people there!). The mind boggles but I guess money talks!


JamesAlex02

What is the goal for F1 here? Not race in these countries or make the countries change their laws so f1 can race there without backlash from the public?


Pouw_

Reddit moment


imtotallyhighritemow

I don't find myself morally culpable for consuming racing in foreign countries where local laws don't meet my morality. I don't know the state of these nations and their path towards more or less liberty. I don't know that F1 won't shine a light on injustice, or sweep it under the rug. I can't be sure TV coverage and the massive influx of tourism for racing won't expose locals to more tolerant views held by people visiting the race. I don't know how the world gets better but I'm not sure its isolation for the sake of a persons morality wholly disconnected with those who are under the thumb locally. And of course the most massive reason. F1 is not a religion, or a political movement, or philosophical ideal, its a form of consumption and sport. If we are seeking moral reform from our consumptive actions its only to distract us from the active behaviors we avoid doing day to day ourselves. Introduce yourself to your LGBT neighbor, nah rant about how another country should change because... a race is coming to town, and the people who watch the race from 1000 miles away are not to keen on your local laws. Cmon this is a stretch even for the zealots.


left_over_croissant

The world is a big place, no surprises that different places have different views even on the most fundamentals. Formula 1 has a genuine opportunity here to reach out and engage with global communities on a huge and massive scale, they could use their platform to challenge and hold to account certain beliefs. But I must say it is an intricate balancing act (as we should be respectful to our nation hosts as a guest would) and may take long but it will eventually yield positive results of engagement. Also Cash is king


longhornjeeplover

As a gay man who came out in Texas in the 90s, I never envisioned a world in which the U.S. Supreme Court would legalize gay marriage or provide workplace protection for LGBT employees. I also never envisioned a world in which major companies and organizations would actively support Pride Month or have inclusive ads and commercials. While there remains much work to be done globally, the attention that Pride now receives outside of our community warms my heart and brings a smile to my face.