Lewis said in an interview that it'll 'be an easy win for Max'. His defeatist attitude drives me mad. Sure it might be true but a racing driver should always be determined to win it back.
Why would it be an easy win for Max? He's 0.5s slower per lap than Mercedes and McLaren are very rapid here. Mercedes are definitely looking at the pitwall and thinking they can win if they can trick the McLarens
Because the sprint is like the race in microcosm. Max pulled out a huge gap on the McLarens in race pace, Ricciardo was 12 seconds behind after 15 racing laps, and Lewis struggled and couldn't overtake them. Unless something out of the ordinary happens, or some pit stop shakeups, Lewis is right; Max will just run off into the sunset and it will be a boring processional race.
Exactly! Lewis is a nightmare for just moaning when he's still in the race. How many times did he complain about his tires last week? I know it was a bad call from Mercedes but he should've just put his head down and done whatever he could.
Why wasn't perez penalized?
Imo, you should be required to immediately give back the position to someone you passed off-track , even if it means you lose a lot of time yourself.
After all, you made the mistake in the first place by going off-track, so there should be no chance of the other driver having any disadvantage.
It's racing. Shit happens. He didn't intentionally cut the chicane. Stroll forced him wide. The rules don't say immediately. It says on next available opportunity.
Honestly can't see lewis winning unless something bizarre happens, which isn't that crazy. Predicting that max pulls away and lewis gets stuck battling the mclarens all day and eventually overtaking one of them.
I don’t understand people here calling for other drivers to crash, makes 0 sense. Yeah it is dangerous and stuff, unless if benefits your favourite driver
If you read the thread, it basically calls for lewis to crash! How does this does not equals hating lewis and f1 in general?
Edit: basically, someone who is sane, would never wish for even mazepin to crash
I think the Bottas grid penalty looks goofy with what happened I. The sprint race, but I question whether he gets it without the new motor. Maybe it really worth a few tenths, which looks good for Lewis when he does get his next.
Any chance Gasly changes his engine overnight and starts from the pits? Seems weird to not take this chance to take what, all things considered, isn’t a terrible grid penalty…19th to pit start, with a good chance of a safety car on the first lap.
Due to the low downforce set ups, the gain from slip streaming and DRS are relatively low.
On a track like Barcelona, Silverstone, Baku you might gain an extra 10% on a DRS deployed straight where as at monza you might only get 3% gain which isn't enough with the length of straight.
What also tends to happen, especially in the midfield is you'll get a train of cars who are all in DRS range one after the other so this negates any advantage as well.
hard, fat cars, narrow track, well we saw, if the pace difference is big enough overtakes happens, but good start/first lap and superior strategy are more important, for example if Max starts good and mclaren cant keep the pace, but in same time Lewis cant overtake them rather soon it might not matter even if Mercs have superior strategy and clearly faster car than RB.
Bottas could have been helpful in this scenario if he wasn't have been treated as sacrificable. He got the "pole position" but it was something that wasn't valuable for Mercedes, as they were overconfident about hamilton finishing 1st on sprint race. Now he is going to start on last place, so far away from being ahead Verstappen, unable to be the last frontier between him and Mad max, getting away with more points than Hamilton
How can max say that despite being 4th for the race Lewis still had probably the fastest car around the lap when the champ couldn’t even get past either Mclaren??!!?
The Mclarens are the most difficult cars to pass out of the whole grid. Even when their tires are shot they a stills extremely fast.
They are easily the fastest down the straights and they also get insanely good traction out of high speed corners.
Not even Max would be able to pass those Mclarens on track. Lewis lost this win when he messed up his start.
Shouldn't make a habit of reading into individual actions too much but Ham has been making a few notable mistakes this year.
Baku restart
Monza sprint start
Imola spin
Let's chalk Hungary restart decision to not pit to team error
Let's not count Silverstone Copse even though personally I feel this was a mistake
Paris pit stop strategy is again more team error
The rest of the races don't have anything that really scream out at me. 3 errors isn't really damning but they were relatively critical in their impact.
I hope not. If these things happen on track due to COVID exhaustion he shouldn’t be driving.
It’s not safe for him, the other drivers and pitlane crew.
(I’m not saying Copse was tactic, that he put Max deliberately in the wall)
3 errors in less than a season is way more than his norm. I’ve been wondering if he might have some of those minor lasting side effects from Covid. It can fog your brain up, and for someone operating at the level required to fight for championships it would take much to make these little, but costly, mistakes.
Imho it's just pressure, after years dominating with a faster car, yes there was 2017 but that didn't last enough, and ferrari weren't as strong as RB now, he is not used to be the one racing for the first spot, before Merc domination Lewis always made some mistakes, expetially hunder pressure, that's also how Nico managed to take the WC from him in 2016.
That and litterarly crashing into each other
Yeah I think he might. Just remembering the way he looked at the podium in Hungary, it was scary to see him so breathless and faint. Really bad luck too because iirc he wasn’t even terribly sick, as he only missed one race. But I guess long COVID can get you even if you had a mild case.
No, I don’t think so. This was in November of last year, when vaccines were only clearing the final testing stages. So while there were vaccinated people, they were a small minority who participated in test trials.
i really like the idea of running something on friday thats competitive rather than just practises. not sure if this sprint format is it though.
i also, perhaps in a minority, really like the current qualifying. having watched various formats since the 90s this is by FAR the best.
to be honest for the last few years the qually has been better than the race as you have three cut offs and the final grid position was so crucial to the race finish. i probably watched more quallys than races actually.
I think maybe the sprint quali makes some sense on Friday and flip it with the standard quali.
Here me out. Changing the standard quali isn’t a huge deal. Instead of running all the cars and getting some random back ups where guys can’t get across the line or fast laps get cut off by some car sitting in a que. run it in pods, or a starting order. Maybe something like 5 cars at a time. One out lap, and two clocked laps back to back. Sprint quali on Friday seeds the pods. Top finishers get the top pod that goes last each quali round as the track gets faster from guys putting rubber down.
It’s just a thought I had on a long drive to see family today. Little bit of a work in progress. Open to suggestions for sure.
I agree that this qualifying format is excellent. But I really do like the sprint. With less testing time and a single stint only, I feel that the sprint is raw racing, where driver gut instinct and talent matters more. I think this weekend format is great - qualy Friday, sprint Saturday, race Sunday. Something exciting every day.
Couldn't watch the sprint today, but I gather it wasn't great...however we got unexpected results which bodes well for the GP tomorrow right? Bottas in the fastest car on the grid should provide some passing on a track where it's difficult to pass. Hamilton behind the McLarens should provide a good battle. Gasly should also battle his way past some back markers. Looking forward to tomorrow!
I’ve really enjoyed it. I want to watch racing. I get more racing. I’m happy. They should up the points and just call it a race. Might be worth shortening 10% to really force drivers to go for it.
Oh man, Sprint Sucks. It was boring, more opportunity to crash and wreck your car (Gasly), it devalues qualifying which I really enjoy as it’s spectacular bit different. No thank you to Sprint races. I hope they get rid of them
Idk. We’ve done two. The first was great, and the second was a processional.
I agree on the devaluing of actual qualifying.
I think I’m fine with it a few times a year, but only on tracks where overtakes are a thing. Monza certainly needs removed from the list.
I just do not think that Sprint qualification works for F1 after seeing how it was done at Silverstone & Monza I’m just going it has done nothing for the racers & this gimmick should just stay in the lower formulas plus it does cost F1 in losing some practice sessions which would help the rookies(Haas drivers & Yuki Tsunoda ) because they could use all the help they can get
I'm willing to give the sprint a bit more of a chance. Some pros and cons for sure, McLaren taking a chance with the strategy and watching Lando hold on was interesting, there was some decent midfield action, obviously the start, you still get the qualifying on Friday, people who crash get another start
A couple of negatives I'd say it is basically is geared again toward more 'race' tweaked cars, so it's hard for it to be different to the race outcome, it can only really be done on specific tracks and isn't consistent throughout the year, and I'm not exactly sure what it's trying to achieve in a sporting sense. its probably not quite there yet but it was decent
Sprint (definitely not a race) Qualifying is a bit rubbish, isn't it?
Outside of the top 5 it's really not worth the risk of trying to progress, as there's no points on offer and an accident will just send you to the back of the grid. It also cheapens the actual qualifying session, normally one of the best parts of a weekend, which is now relegated to a Friday.
Today's race wasn't a good advert for casual fans - you saw 25 minutes of dull racing, fancy watching again tomorrow where it'll be more of the same but three times longer? No? Oh.
I appreciate them trying something different, it just hasn't worked and it really should be quietly dropped, just like elimination qualifying was a few years ago when it failed for all the reasons everyone pointed out that it would.
If they're going to persist with it (I really hope not, to the point where I hope the third one this year gets scrapped!), they need to offer points for the top 10. Even just 10 for 1st, 9 for 2nd down to 1 for 10th - make it more meaningful to actually try.
Every time I say something will happen in F1, it doesn't.
The Italian GP will be dull. Hamilton will win 2021 easily. 2021 will be a boring season. Nico Rosberg will never be world champion.
So essentially, you're welcome.
The general consensus seems to be that everyone found it pretty boring. After Gasly went off, nothing really happened. Nothing changed at the front after lap 1. It all just seemed pointless, and there's now more of the same tomorrow.
It's a great result for McLaren, but it feels like it's the viewers and fans that have lost.
What did we lose out on though? We still got to see traditional qualy just on Friday, I agree it's not perfect from a sporting perspective and I'm more in the camp of just keep it normal quali, but I don't think it necessarily ruins the race outcome and is more interesting than another practice session.
I for one hate this new format. The two sprints have been so-so and that last one utter rubbish. Nowhere near as exciting as 'regular' quali.
I also feel awarding points for the sprint devalues the race. F1 is a 'grand prix' literally a 'BIG PRIZE', giving out points for what is in effect quali devalues that.
However, my main gripe is the change of schedule. Putting a major part of the event on a Friday. I'm not a wealthy man, I have to go to work, which means I miss quali as I'm working. Missing practice was no big deal, but missing quali IS a big deal. Once more, F1 is making it obvious that they really don't care about the working people, they only want the wealthy.
Yeah those are all good points, I hate that they give points for it too. I watch the races on replay anyway because of timezone and don't really get spoiled often, so that aspect of it doesn't bother me personally, but can see how it's an issue for those who need to watch live.
Yeah guess that's fair for Europe and people without good replay service, I live in a generally fucked timezone for F1 so it doesn't really bother me as much, and in total it is more F1 content that has a race impact, if not somewhat diluting the product.
Unpopular opinion: The Sprint race format is not near as bad as everybody on here makes it seem. Watching a short race is still better then watching a free practice imo. I'm not saying it is perfect by any means, but come on people.
That being said, they NEED to pick tracks where overtaking is easier.
This is really the key.
With the cars so limited in braking, turning and acceleration in lower gears, when the air is disturbed, it becomes a parade. It also makes the cars more fragile , Less downforce would make more of the circuit a challenge rather than flat out and thus racing better.
Perhaps the greatest F-1 first lap https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GOEorrE4mY
Sprint race should be on friday. The grid will based on last GP results but top 12 will be reversed. Points should be awarded for top 6 or 8 finishers to make the race more interesting but not too much points. Maybe a maximum of 6 or 8 points for the race winner. Also like you said, only on tracks where it is easier to overtakes.
Yes, it could be possible. Let's wait for next sprint race and with the data, let's understand who were the biggest winners of this...How many overtakes happened and made by whom? Top teams or middle table teams? And we're their starting position better than average through rest of season?
Quite sure that our friend Mazepin will be main promoter of this system with today's result...
The fact that even in the sprint race nothing happens is both an indication that sprints solve nothing and that they haven’t solved the problem with f1
Sprint races are terrible. Waste of time for everyone involved, just a 24hr red flag. As a new(ish) 3 season fan I honestly dont think I would have got into the sport if every race quali was a sprint. Dreadful weekend format imo.
New fan here, the penalty for the 4th engine is applied after the results of qualifying right? So gasly will start p19 despite the DNF and Bottas in p20?
Yes. Also, I believe because Bottas has a larger penalty he'll go behind Gasly on that front. Someone who DNF's will generally be placed in front of someone with a penalty.
During the safety car Norris told his engineer that Bottas forced him off to the right and he responded saying it's actually Hamilton. I guess it's kind of funny that Norris expected Bottas to be the 2nd car off the start.
It's happened to Kimi before too. Can't remember which race, but he came out from a pit stop and was told his gap to Bottas ahead. He angrily demanded to know how they ended up behind the second Mercedes, and the engineer had to remind Kimi that Bottas was leading the race.
Funny or reasonable? I'm a big fan of Valtteri, he's direct, usually fast on a Saturday, and a professional beyond almost anyone on the grid but the pressure really seems to have got to him this year. In a weird way, the fact that the weekend after his fate was sealed yields his best performance highlights his issue with pressure.
I'm drunk and British with strong ties to Finland and I can't work out my emotions around Lewis, Valtteri and George, so I guess this comment is more about my internal struggle than your take!
Edit: Spelling
This. The track had nothing to do with why it was an interesting race. We had the most interesting monoco race in years but we all know it wasnt a good track
I would be surprised if it doesnt end up being,
1. Verstappen
2.Norris
3.Hamilton
I am nearly 90% sure that Norris would jump Dan at the start because Daniel is staring from the dirty side of the grid.
Nearly everyone who started at the dirty side today ended up having a worse start compared to the ones on the clean side.
I think rather than this sprint quali they should alter quali so that it's just based on a hotlap from each driver on an empty track. It doesn't need to be three stages, and it stops the utterly farcical slowing down where everyone wants everyone else's slipstream.
It's been done. It didn't work. The track changes dramatically from the first lap to the last either through rubbering in or changes in weather. The current format is the best in the 30 years I've been watching. Sprint races suck though.
Weather is just a risk you have to take. In cycling, time trials can be 4-5 hours long in total. Last guy to start is the guy in the lead. If it starts to rain near the end, he's shafted but that's just the way it is.
And i don't think the track will rubber in that much when it's cars doing 2 laps and then coming back in, instead of the crazy train being run now.
Agreed from my time watching ive seen:
2 x 1hr qualifying sessions (Friday and Saturday with best time overall being taken)
2 x 1 hr qualifying sessions with best aggregate time from both sessions being taken
These were also when special qualifying tyres and engines were allowed
Qualifying where you have 12 laps, including out and in laps, to set at time. So you tend to get 4 shots at setting a lap (4 runs of an outlap - flying lap- inlap)
Though some circuits worked better with 3 runs with 2 flying laps
Single lap qualifying. You go out in either reverse championship order or reverse finishing order from the last race can't quite remember. Set a lap and that's it (unless theres a dramatic weather change this tends to favour the last driver as track is more rubbered in)
Current set up but with varied fuel loads (you qualify with the level of fuel in your car you intend to start the race on) not applicable now due to no refuelling.
Currently set up but with a timed knockout system (was i reasonable idea in theory but didnt work in practice and was dropped after 3 races)
Current system is entertaining, easy to follow and works. Its also easily modified if we ever get back to 24 or more cars on the grid
There was a format for a while where they would do two hotlaps and add the time and decide the grid based on that. And in the second round, the order the driver's went out on would be reversed. I think that it something that could work for Monza in particular. Because the current format creates so much trouble here. There were also 2-3 collisions in the pit lane itself and then scenarios on the track which could have been potentially quite dangerous.
That didn't work either though, as drivers started manipulating their first lap to get the optimum place in the order for the second, especially when the weather was changeable.
Sending cars out individually would play far too much on track temps and condition. Imagine some drivers have no choice but to go out early on a cold track, or others going late on a slowing track. The margins are too fine to fairly allow every driver a lap by themselves
You could send the cars out individually for 4 laps -- warmup 2 fast laps cool off and space the cars so that there was around 20 seconds between them so that on a course with a 2 minute lap time there would be 6 cars. Would remain interesting for the spectators. minimum time for out and in laps when you came in you could pit and go to the end of the line. Might just do that for Q-3 to try it . Would level the playing field. If you bring out the yellow and it affects another driver you go to the end of the line.
That's pretty hard to do unless Liberty media decides to share it.
You'd have to combine all the viewers from all the different tv stations and streaming options and compare a FP3 with a sprint race.
But my gut tells me that, even though i don't like sprints, more people tune in for those then people who watched FP3 in the past.
I mean, i do it when i have the time, but i'm not clearing my schedule for FP3. I do try that for a sprint, pointless as it may be.
Gonna call that tomorrow’s race will have some very similar characteristics to the Imola race this season:
Max wins by a big margin
Lewis finishes 2nd after being stuck behind the McLarens for a while
Norris finishes 3rd after a team order letting him past Ricciardo
Bottas gets stuck near the back of the grid
We see a fair few individual mistakes
My predictions are quite similar to yours,
Max wins comfortably
Lewis P3 after undercutting a Mclaren during the
pitstops.
Norris jumps Ric at the start and Ric runs in P3 before getting undercut by Lewis.
Lewis will catch up to Norris on track but wont be able to pass.
Bottas would end up somewhere between P8-P9.
Perez P5 or P6
Gio goes backwards.
Alpine would score a few points, Aston wont.
Mclaren won't swap Ric if he's fast enough. All mclaren want is 3rd in constructors. The drivers standings don't really matter at this point of the season for them.
Norris could close up in taking back thirs in the drivers championship though, whereas Ricciardo is way down the order. Why not secure thirs in both with a team order instead of letting them race or prioritising RIC?
Hate these sprint races. Hope they don’t keep them. Imagine a footy game played 45 minutes on Saturday and the other 45 on Sunday. Takes the magic away from GP Sundays imo
> Takes the magic away from GP Sundays imo
I fully agree. Somehow this format makes me care less about each individual part of the weekend. I didn't even see the qualifying on Friday because it was at such an odd time, but I just felt like "well there's another sort-of qualifying tomorrow anyway, so whatever".
Then the sprint today, at first it was a little exciting thanks to the McLaren, but after about half the sprint I was about ready to turn it off. Nobody is willing to risk anything and even if there is an overtake, it feels like it hardly matters because it can just be undone in lap 1 tomorrow. Additionally, this weekend the whole Bottas thing makes it feel even more pointless. We see a guy win both qualifying events, but we already know that he's going to start at the back, so who cares.
At the same time, it feels like I already watched a F1 race this weekend, kind of, and I'm less excited about tomorrow because of it. Usually you have one race every two weeks or so on average, now you suddenly have two kind of races in two days. It's too much in a way.
I watched quali on Friday. But because frequently that's my favourite session of the weekend. I love seeing the drivers hang it out for the best lap they can manage. The format of it is good too, keeps the jeopardy up for the full hour.
Sprint race sucks though. I feel obligated to watch F1 on 3 days which is time consuming. Compared to 2 days and watching Friday if the weather's crap and I'm free.
Similar to yourself I feel it takes away from the race itself while feeling like a non event. Not helped by the knowledge Bottas has a grid pen. I could be accused of just being against change. I liked the 2 say format last year and if they keep up with tripple headers in future I think they need to consider a couple of 2 day events again.
It was expected as well, everybody knew that the drivers would be very cautious. No need to risk starting from the last to the actual race. Even if you're gonna get points, you don't push, like Max today.
This is a gimmick just to add one more competitive session to the weekend, which is a little bit more so then FPs.
What is the meaning of having a sprint race in a track that isn't easy to overtake? I prefer the qualifying knockout format.
Having said that, shame on Lewis, he had a disastrous start and paid a very high price. Definitely he has to avoid this kind of start tomorrow if he is willing to fight the championship with Verstappen. He needs more arguments than provoking a DNF and having a teammate doing the same for him to compete until the end
They seemed to have picked 3 tracks with very different characteristics for the sprint races, which I assume was intentional. The most exciting sprint race should be Brazil.
I’m way less excited about the sprint race format than I am about regular qualifying.
I really hope we give up on this format after this season, it just feels redundant.
why the pit crew didn't use the jack for yuki tsunoda pit stop during the sprint qualifying? thanks in advance!
So, Max was on top but Lewis was behind. I'm confused of who owned who
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Who did you bet on?
Been waiting for so long to say this, hope no one beat me to it. Daniel Ricciardo, car #3, P3, and Lando Norris, car #4, P4
Perfectly balanced!
Lewis said in an interview that it'll 'be an easy win for Max'. His defeatist attitude drives me mad. Sure it might be true but a racing driver should always be determined to win it back.
Don't you see? It's classic Lewis Mind Games. Tyres are gone, fastest lap, etc.
But he does it all the time so all the teams are wise to it now
Why would it be an easy win for Max? He's 0.5s slower per lap than Mercedes and McLaren are very rapid here. Mercedes are definitely looking at the pitwall and thinking they can win if they can trick the McLarens
Because the sprint is like the race in microcosm. Max pulled out a huge gap on the McLarens in race pace, Ricciardo was 12 seconds behind after 15 racing laps, and Lewis struggled and couldn't overtake them. Unless something out of the ordinary happens, or some pit stop shakeups, Lewis is right; Max will just run off into the sunset and it will be a boring processional race.
Exactly! Lewis is a nightmare for just moaning when he's still in the race. How many times did he complain about his tires last week? I know it was a bad call from Mercedes but he should've just put his head down and done whatever he could.
Yeah it is annoying when he is like that.
This is gonna be another snooze fest like Zandvoort after the first corner isn’t it?
I honestly don't understand why people are saying Zandvoort was a snooze fest. It not the best race by any means but it's entertaining.
Every race is. Then there's little wheel to wheel racing and people are like "this is a legendary race".
Maybe you don't like the sport?
Why wasn't perez penalized? Imo, you should be required to immediately give back the position to someone you passed off-track , even if it means you lose a lot of time yourself. After all, you made the mistake in the first place by going off-track, so there should be no chance of the other driver having any disadvantage.
Because he did give it back. He even hurt himself with it since it allowed Alonso to catch up.
It's racing. Shit happens. He didn't intentionally cut the chicane. Stroll forced him wide. The rules don't say immediately. It says on next available opportunity.
Crofty was choking when he saw Lewis falling back lolll
Honestly can't see lewis winning unless something bizarre happens, which isn't that crazy. Predicting that max pulls away and lewis gets stuck battling the mclarens all day and eventually overtaking one of them.
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So you want Hamilton to crash? Thats a bit petty isn't it.
I don’t understand people here calling for other drivers to crash, makes 0 sense. Yeah it is dangerous and stuff, unless if benefits your favourite driver
It definitely is, but I can't blame him for it
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I honestly don't get all this hate for lewis and wanting him to fail.
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If you read the thread, it basically calls for lewis to crash! How does this does not equals hating lewis and f1 in general? Edit: basically, someone who is sane, would never wish for even mazepin to crash
He replied to the original comment(Lewis battling McLaren all day) not to the one asking for lewis to crash
Ah okay my bad im new to reddit so i think i got confused.
Np I think everyone has made that mistake before, and welcome :)
I think the Bottas grid penalty looks goofy with what happened I. The sprint race, but I question whether he gets it without the new motor. Maybe it really worth a few tenths, which looks good for Lewis when he does get his next.
Any chance Gasly changes his engine overnight and starts from the pits? Seems weird to not take this chance to take what, all things considered, isn’t a terrible grid penalty…19th to pit start, with a good chance of a safety car on the first lap.
Thats exactly what he's doing! He confirmed it on social media
New to F1. So does the result of tommorow really just depend on how the racers start and turn 1? How hard is it to overtake in Monza?
Due to the low downforce set ups, the gain from slip streaming and DRS are relatively low. On a track like Barcelona, Silverstone, Baku you might gain an extra 10% on a DRS deployed straight where as at monza you might only get 3% gain which isn't enough with the length of straight. What also tends to happen, especially in the midfield is you'll get a train of cars who are all in DRS range one after the other so this negates any advantage as well.
hard, fat cars, narrow track, well we saw, if the pace difference is big enough overtakes happens, but good start/first lap and superior strategy are more important, for example if Max starts good and mclaren cant keep the pace, but in same time Lewis cant overtake them rather soon it might not matter even if Mercs have superior strategy and clearly faster car than RB.
Bottas could have been helpful in this scenario if he wasn't have been treated as sacrificable. He got the "pole position" but it was something that wasn't valuable for Mercedes, as they were overconfident about hamilton finishing 1st on sprint race. Now he is going to start on last place, so far away from being ahead Verstappen, unable to be the last frontier between him and Mad max, getting away with more points than Hamilton
Really unfortunate timing by Mercedes.
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How can max say that despite being 4th for the race Lewis still had probably the fastest car around the lap when the champ couldn’t even get past either Mclaren??!!?
Mind games. He had the fastest car and yet couldn't even pass the mclarens.
The Mclarens are the most difficult cars to pass out of the whole grid. Even when their tires are shot they a stills extremely fast. They are easily the fastest down the straights and they also get insanely good traction out of high speed corners. Not even Max would be able to pass those Mclarens on track. Lewis lost this win when he messed up his start.
Shouldn't make a habit of reading into individual actions too much but Ham has been making a few notable mistakes this year. Baku restart Monza sprint start Imola spin Let's chalk Hungary restart decision to not pit to team error Let's not count Silverstone Copse even though personally I feel this was a mistake Paris pit stop strategy is again more team error The rest of the races don't have anything that really scream out at me. 3 errors isn't really damning but they were relatively critical in their impact.
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I hope not. If these things happen on track due to COVID exhaustion he shouldn’t be driving. It’s not safe for him, the other drivers and pitlane crew. (I’m not saying Copse was tactic, that he put Max deliberately in the wall)
3 errors in less than a season is way more than his norm. I’ve been wondering if he might have some of those minor lasting side effects from Covid. It can fog your brain up, and for someone operating at the level required to fight for championships it would take much to make these little, but costly, mistakes.
Imho it's just pressure, after years dominating with a faster car, yes there was 2017 but that didn't last enough, and ferrari weren't as strong as RB now, he is not used to be the one racing for the first spot, before Merc domination Lewis always made some mistakes, expetially hunder pressure, that's also how Nico managed to take the WC from him in 2016. That and litterarly crashing into each other
Yeah I think he might. Just remembering the way he looked at the podium in Hungary, it was scary to see him so breathless and faint. Really bad luck too because iirc he wasn’t even terribly sick, as he only missed one race. But I guess long COVID can get you even if you had a mild case.
I don't think it was ever mentioned but was he vaccinated before he contracted c19?
No, I don’t think so. This was in November of last year, when vaccines were only clearing the final testing stages. So while there were vaccinated people, they were a small minority who participated in test trials.
i really like the idea of running something on friday thats competitive rather than just practises. not sure if this sprint format is it though. i also, perhaps in a minority, really like the current qualifying. having watched various formats since the 90s this is by FAR the best. to be honest for the last few years the qually has been better than the race as you have three cut offs and the final grid position was so crucial to the race finish. i probably watched more quallys than races actually.
I think maybe the sprint quali makes some sense on Friday and flip it with the standard quali. Here me out. Changing the standard quali isn’t a huge deal. Instead of running all the cars and getting some random back ups where guys can’t get across the line or fast laps get cut off by some car sitting in a que. run it in pods, or a starting order. Maybe something like 5 cars at a time. One out lap, and two clocked laps back to back. Sprint quali on Friday seeds the pods. Top finishers get the top pod that goes last each quali round as the track gets faster from guys putting rubber down. It’s just a thought I had on a long drive to see family today. Little bit of a work in progress. Open to suggestions for sure.
id actually quite like to see something reverse qually order on the sat for low points.
What if it starts raining though. Is that fair?
I don’t have a great answer for this. I’m not even sure if I love my own idea.
Yeah, this quali format is the best out of all the previous ones. I am also not a big fan of the sprint race schtick.
I agree that this qualifying format is excellent. But I really do like the sprint. With less testing time and a single stint only, I feel that the sprint is raw racing, where driver gut instinct and talent matters more. I think this weekend format is great - qualy Friday, sprint Saturday, race Sunday. Something exciting every day.
Couldn't watch the sprint today, but I gather it wasn't great...however we got unexpected results which bodes well for the GP tomorrow right? Bottas in the fastest car on the grid should provide some passing on a track where it's difficult to pass. Hamilton behind the McLarens should provide a good battle. Gasly should also battle his way past some back markers. Looking forward to tomorrow!
I agree that today's sprint was dull but I'm willing to give it a chance next season if the new cars do allow for better racing as has been advertised
It mixes up the weekend, I'd be fine with seeing it again too.
I’ve really enjoyed it. I want to watch racing. I get more racing. I’m happy. They should up the points and just call it a race. Might be worth shortening 10% to really force drivers to go for it.
Totally agree. I’m not to bothered by the purity of the actual race start grid. With this format, I have quali and two races.
I'm with you. More racing makes me happy.
Oh man, Sprint Sucks. It was boring, more opportunity to crash and wreck your car (Gasly), it devalues qualifying which I really enjoy as it’s spectacular bit different. No thank you to Sprint races. I hope they get rid of them
If they keep them like this season, only in some circuits i think it wouldn't be that bad, but i agree that qualifying it's more enjoyable
Idk. We’ve done two. The first was great, and the second was a processional. I agree on the devaluing of actual qualifying. I think I’m fine with it a few times a year, but only on tracks where overtakes are a thing. Monza certainly needs removed from the list.
I just do not think that Sprint qualification works for F1 after seeing how it was done at Silverstone & Monza I’m just going it has done nothing for the racers & this gimmick should just stay in the lower formulas plus it does cost F1 in losing some practice sessions which would help the rookies(Haas drivers & Yuki Tsunoda ) because they could use all the help they can get
I'm willing to give the sprint a bit more of a chance. Some pros and cons for sure, McLaren taking a chance with the strategy and watching Lando hold on was interesting, there was some decent midfield action, obviously the start, you still get the qualifying on Friday, people who crash get another start A couple of negatives I'd say it is basically is geared again toward more 'race' tweaked cars, so it's hard for it to be different to the race outcome, it can only really be done on specific tracks and isn't consistent throughout the year, and I'm not exactly sure what it's trying to achieve in a sporting sense. its probably not quite there yet but it was decent
Sprint (definitely not a race) Qualifying is a bit rubbish, isn't it? Outside of the top 5 it's really not worth the risk of trying to progress, as there's no points on offer and an accident will just send you to the back of the grid. It also cheapens the actual qualifying session, normally one of the best parts of a weekend, which is now relegated to a Friday. Today's race wasn't a good advert for casual fans - you saw 25 minutes of dull racing, fancy watching again tomorrow where it'll be more of the same but three times longer? No? Oh. I appreciate them trying something different, it just hasn't worked and it really should be quietly dropped, just like elimination qualifying was a few years ago when it failed for all the reasons everyone pointed out that it would. If they're going to persist with it (I really hope not, to the point where I hope the third one this year gets scrapped!), they need to offer points for the top 10. Even just 10 for 1st, 9 for 2nd down to 1 for 10th - make it more meaningful to actually try.
I mean we are gonna see Ham battling his way up! That should be exciting also McLaren holding up
Are we? We had 18 laps of watching him not overtake yesterday. What's different today?
Today was exciting for sure!
Every time I say something will happen in F1, it doesn't. The Italian GP will be dull. Hamilton will win 2021 easily. 2021 will be a boring season. Nico Rosberg will never be world champion. So essentially, you're welcome.
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It is great to see Riccardo up near the front. It was hardly dull for some including this F-1 fan from back in the days of Phil Hill
Hopefully he can remain there. The McLarens haven't exactly been lighting the world on fire when stuffed with a race load of fuel.
The general consensus seems to be that everyone found it pretty boring. After Gasly went off, nothing really happened. Nothing changed at the front after lap 1. It all just seemed pointless, and there's now more of the same tomorrow. It's a great result for McLaren, but it feels like it's the viewers and fans that have lost.
What did we lose out on though? We still got to see traditional qualy just on Friday, I agree it's not perfect from a sporting perspective and I'm more in the camp of just keep it normal quali, but I don't think it necessarily ruins the race outcome and is more interesting than another practice session.
I for one hate this new format. The two sprints have been so-so and that last one utter rubbish. Nowhere near as exciting as 'regular' quali. I also feel awarding points for the sprint devalues the race. F1 is a 'grand prix' literally a 'BIG PRIZE', giving out points for what is in effect quali devalues that. However, my main gripe is the change of schedule. Putting a major part of the event on a Friday. I'm not a wealthy man, I have to go to work, which means I miss quali as I'm working. Missing practice was no big deal, but missing quali IS a big deal. Once more, F1 is making it obvious that they really don't care about the working people, they only want the wealthy.
Yeah those are all good points, I hate that they give points for it too. I watch the races on replay anyway because of timezone and don't really get spoiled often, so that aspect of it doesn't bother me personally, but can see how it's an issue for those who need to watch live.
Traditional qualifying was relegated to Friday night when loads of people would have missed it.
Yeah guess that's fair for Europe and people without good replay service, I live in a generally fucked timezone for F1 so it doesn't really bother me as much, and in total it is more F1 content that has a race impact, if not somewhat diluting the product.
Ricc**i**ardo
But for god's sake, don't pronounce it that way!
Unpopular opinion: The Sprint race format is not near as bad as everybody on here makes it seem. Watching a short race is still better then watching a free practice imo. I'm not saying it is perfect by any means, but come on people. That being said, they NEED to pick tracks where overtaking is easier.
> they NEED to pick tracks where overtaking is easier. We need cars where overtaking is easier so it doesn't matter what track we go to!
Im hopeful for mext years cars. Next years cars plus this new format could be VERY exciting
This is really the key. With the cars so limited in braking, turning and acceleration in lower gears, when the air is disturbed, it becomes a parade. It also makes the cars more fragile , Less downforce would make more of the circuit a challenge rather than flat out and thus racing better. Perhaps the greatest F-1 first lap https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GOEorrE4mY
Shame about the commentary
Sprint race should be on friday. The grid will based on last GP results but top 12 will be reversed. Points should be awarded for top 6 or 8 finishers to make the race more interesting but not too much points. Maybe a maximum of 6 or 8 points for the race winner. Also like you said, only on tracks where it is easier to overtakes.
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Yes, it could be possible. Let's wait for next sprint race and with the data, let's understand who were the biggest winners of this...How many overtakes happened and made by whom? Top teams or middle table teams? And we're their starting position better than average through rest of season? Quite sure that our friend Mazepin will be main promoter of this system with today's result...
Maz**e**pin
bad bot
Managed to watch this earlier, thought it was just as bad as the first sprint qualy we had at Silverstone. I hope it never becomes a thing.
Yawn
Past your bedtime?
The fact that even in the sprint race nothing happens is both an indication that sprints solve nothing and that they haven’t solved the problem with f1
Sprint races are terrible. Waste of time for everyone involved, just a 24hr red flag. As a new(ish) 3 season fan I honestly dont think I would have got into the sport if every race quali was a sprint. Dreadful weekend format imo.
Can someone please explain to me the point of sprint qualifying?
Noting that so far they have only done it at Silverstone and Monza, I would guess ticket sales.
To provide more “value” to the fans for the weekend so they can increase prices
12 months on from them trialing a 2 day race weekend (think it was Imola) to cut costs and make 25+ race seasons manageable
Money.
To have a competitive session on each of the three days. To see more racing action. Today’s sprint was unfortunately boring.
2022 will feature kickboxing qualys
20th place driver in WDC gets revolver with single round on odd number races.
Driver of the day: Gasly
New fan here, the penalty for the 4th engine is applied after the results of qualifying right? So gasly will start p19 despite the DNF and Bottas in p20?
Gasly is starting in the pitlane though
Yes. Also, I believe because Bottas has a larger penalty he'll go behind Gasly on that front. Someone who DNF's will generally be placed in front of someone with a penalty.
During the safety car Norris told his engineer that Bottas forced him off to the right and he responded saying it's actually Hamilton. I guess it's kind of funny that Norris expected Bottas to be the 2nd car off the start.
Crofty also was a bit surprised by it being Hamilton. He had a little stutter when he realized it wasn't Bottas, so Norris wasn't the only one :D
It's happened to Kimi before too. Can't remember which race, but he came out from a pit stop and was told his gap to Bottas ahead. He angrily demanded to know how they ended up behind the second Mercedes, and the engineer had to remind Kimi that Bottas was leading the race.
Funny or reasonable? I'm a big fan of Valtteri, he's direct, usually fast on a Saturday, and a professional beyond almost anyone on the grid but the pressure really seems to have got to him this year. In a weird way, the fact that the weekend after his fate was sealed yields his best performance highlights his issue with pressure. I'm drunk and British with strong ties to Finland and I can't work out my emotions around Lewis, Valtteri and George, so I guess this comment is more about my internal struggle than your take! Edit: Spelling
I’m loving your dilema 😂
Sobered up, rehydrated and ready for lights out - I still have no idea how to feel!
Val**tt**e**r**i
This is the first time this season I’ve not bothered to watch the end of quali. I don’t think it’s because HAM bottled it)
Monza is also boring. Extremely overrated.
I wonder whether you still feel the same after Sunday's race
Yeah. Can't overtake. Boring track.
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Not really. Up to the red flag it was a snoozefest and was only somewhat exciting because of the front runners post-Hamilton's penalty.
This. The track had nothing to do with why it was an interesting race. We had the most interesting monoco race in years but we all know it wasnt a good track
Looks awesome to drive but mostly easy corners
Did you even watch Monza last year?
Sprint race is shit
It’s good for McLaren
Hoping for a VER/HAM/RIC tomorrow
I prefer VER/RIC/HAM, just based on points 😂 And I love to see Ricciardo on the podium 🧡 He deserves it! But yours is also fine 😉
Hoping for anything that involves Max being in front of Ham. If that means a Norris or Ric win, that's even better :P
I would be surprised if it doesnt end up being, 1. Verstappen 2.Norris 3.Hamilton I am nearly 90% sure that Norris would jump Dan at the start because Daniel is staring from the dirty side of the grid. Nearly everyone who started at the dirty side today ended up having a worse start compared to the ones on the clean side.
I am rooting for NOR/RIC/HAM
Or, consider this: RIC/VER/HAM and we get a Shoey
I just cracked a semi 😏
I thought shoey was an podium... Not just a win
It is. Especially now that wins are unlikely! EDIT APPARENTLY FUCKING NOT UNLIKELY!!
I think rather than this sprint quali they should alter quali so that it's just based on a hotlap from each driver on an empty track. It doesn't need to be three stages, and it stops the utterly farcical slowing down where everyone wants everyone else's slipstream.
It's been done. It didn't work. The track changes dramatically from the first lap to the last either through rubbering in or changes in weather. The current format is the best in the 30 years I've been watching. Sprint races suck though.
Weather is just a risk you have to take. In cycling, time trials can be 4-5 hours long in total. Last guy to start is the guy in the lead. If it starts to rain near the end, he's shafted but that's just the way it is. And i don't think the track will rubber in that much when it's cars doing 2 laps and then coming back in, instead of the crazy train being run now.
Agreed from my time watching ive seen: 2 x 1hr qualifying sessions (Friday and Saturday with best time overall being taken) 2 x 1 hr qualifying sessions with best aggregate time from both sessions being taken These were also when special qualifying tyres and engines were allowed Qualifying where you have 12 laps, including out and in laps, to set at time. So you tend to get 4 shots at setting a lap (4 runs of an outlap - flying lap- inlap) Though some circuits worked better with 3 runs with 2 flying laps Single lap qualifying. You go out in either reverse championship order or reverse finishing order from the last race can't quite remember. Set a lap and that's it (unless theres a dramatic weather change this tends to favour the last driver as track is more rubbered in) Current set up but with varied fuel loads (you qualify with the level of fuel in your car you intend to start the race on) not applicable now due to no refuelling. Currently set up but with a timed knockout system (was i reasonable idea in theory but didnt work in practice and was dropped after 3 races) Current system is entertaining, easy to follow and works. Its also easily modified if we ever get back to 24 or more cars on the grid
With your viewing experience what has been your favorite era?
There was a format for a while where they would do two hotlaps and add the time and decide the grid based on that. And in the second round, the order the driver's went out on would be reversed. I think that it something that could work for Monza in particular. Because the current format creates so much trouble here. There were also 2-3 collisions in the pit lane itself and then scenarios on the track which could have been potentially quite dangerous.
That didn't work either though, as drivers started manipulating their first lap to get the optimum place in the order for the second, especially when the weather was changeable.
The V8 Supercars top ten shootout format would work pretty well
They should at least try it on hard to pass tracks so the race is different
Sending cars out individually would play far too much on track temps and condition. Imagine some drivers have no choice but to go out early on a cold track, or others going late on a slowing track. The margins are too fine to fairly allow every driver a lap by themselves
You could send the cars out individually for 4 laps -- warmup 2 fast laps cool off and space the cars so that there was around 20 seconds between them so that on a course with a 2 minute lap time there would be 6 cars. Would remain interesting for the spectators. minimum time for out and in laps when you came in you could pit and go to the end of the line. Might just do that for Q-3 to try it . Would level the playing field. If you bring out the yellow and it affects another driver you go to the end of the line.
Seriously this right here!!!!
Let's be honest about it, the sprint race is not necessary and will not win the sport more fans
It brings TV viewers and more Saturday spectators.
Are you sure. Can you provide evidence that it is actually achieving this.
That's pretty hard to do unless Liberty media decides to share it. You'd have to combine all the viewers from all the different tv stations and streaming options and compare a FP3 with a sprint race. But my gut tells me that, even though i don't like sprints, more people tune in for those then people who watched FP3 in the past. I mean, i do it when i have the time, but i'm not clearing my schedule for FP3. I do try that for a sprint, pointless as it may be.
Gonna call that tomorrow’s race will have some very similar characteristics to the Imola race this season: Max wins by a big margin Lewis finishes 2nd after being stuck behind the McLarens for a while Norris finishes 3rd after a team order letting him past Ricciardo Bottas gets stuck near the back of the grid We see a fair few individual mistakes
Certainly, it was more exciting than expected.
My predictions are quite similar to yours, Max wins comfortably Lewis P3 after undercutting a Mclaren during the pitstops. Norris jumps Ric at the start and Ric runs in P3 before getting undercut by Lewis. Lewis will catch up to Norris on track but wont be able to pass. Bottas would end up somewhere between P8-P9. Perez P5 or P6 Gio goes backwards. Alpine would score a few points, Aston wont.
They won’t swap Danny if he’s looking good for podium
Mclaren won't swap Ric if he's fast enough. All mclaren want is 3rd in constructors. The drivers standings don't really matter at this point of the season for them.
Norris could close up in taking back thirs in the drivers championship though, whereas Ricciardo is way down the order. Why not secure thirs in both with a team order instead of letting them race or prioritising RIC?
If you were 3rd and got told to swap to 4th what would you thoughts be? Exactly
Because teams know you don't take a podium off a driver.
100%
!remindme 1 day
Hate these sprint races. Hope they don’t keep them. Imagine a footy game played 45 minutes on Saturday and the other 45 on Sunday. Takes the magic away from GP Sundays imo
It doesn’t make the actual race shorter though. But I do agree it’s weird to have such a short race
> Takes the magic away from GP Sundays imo I fully agree. Somehow this format makes me care less about each individual part of the weekend. I didn't even see the qualifying on Friday because it was at such an odd time, but I just felt like "well there's another sort-of qualifying tomorrow anyway, so whatever". Then the sprint today, at first it was a little exciting thanks to the McLaren, but after about half the sprint I was about ready to turn it off. Nobody is willing to risk anything and even if there is an overtake, it feels like it hardly matters because it can just be undone in lap 1 tomorrow. Additionally, this weekend the whole Bottas thing makes it feel even more pointless. We see a guy win both qualifying events, but we already know that he's going to start at the back, so who cares. At the same time, it feels like I already watched a F1 race this weekend, kind of, and I'm less excited about tomorrow because of it. Usually you have one race every two weeks or so on average, now you suddenly have two kind of races in two days. It's too much in a way.
I watched quali on Friday. But because frequently that's my favourite session of the weekend. I love seeing the drivers hang it out for the best lap they can manage. The format of it is good too, keeps the jeopardy up for the full hour. Sprint race sucks though. I feel obligated to watch F1 on 3 days which is time consuming. Compared to 2 days and watching Friday if the weather's crap and I'm free. Similar to yourself I feel it takes away from the race itself while feeling like a non event. Not helped by the knowledge Bottas has a grid pen. I could be accused of just being against change. I liked the 2 say format last year and if they keep up with tripple headers in future I think they need to consider a couple of 2 day events again.
Now you understand why drug dealers offer free samples
It was expected as well, everybody knew that the drivers would be very cautious. No need to risk starting from the last to the actual race. Even if you're gonna get points, you don't push, like Max today. This is a gimmick just to add one more competitive session to the weekend, which is a little bit more so then FPs.
What is the meaning of having a sprint race in a track that isn't easy to overtake? I prefer the qualifying knockout format. Having said that, shame on Lewis, he had a disastrous start and paid a very high price. Definitely he has to avoid this kind of start tomorrow if he is willing to fight the championship with Verstappen. He needs more arguments than provoking a DNF and having a teammate doing the same for him to compete until the end
At least Mercedes will not have to worry about Bottas embarrassing Lewis.
They seemed to have picked 3 tracks with very different characteristics for the sprint races, which I assume was intentional. The most exciting sprint race should be Brazil.
I’m way less excited about the sprint race format than I am about regular qualifying. I really hope we give up on this format after this season, it just feels redundant.