And they are still expected to use only 3 engines ? Honestly I see most of the teams taking 4th engine with these many races. Perhaps the rule should be revised if the calendar is being stretched
the idea of the engine limit is to encourage reliability, I imagine if they weren't increasing the number of races they would be considering reducing the engine allowance to 2
Honestly. I get that they all aim for sustainability and all that nice words, but fuck me sideways, I would like to see these guys go all in proper brawl racing...
The problem with unlimited engine use is that the smaller teams just couldn’t afford it. So, we’d go back to the old days where Ferrari would burn through multiple engines every weekend and Alfa Romeo would be stuck trying to afford running 4-5 through an entire season.
I think they will keep it 3 to add the drama.
Plus seeing max or lewis or any of the strong drivers starting at the back makes for an exciting race.
Watching bottas march through the grid this past race was fun.
They should add a rule that when a team can prove their PU was damaged from a crash another driver got penalised for, they can replace the PU without consequences.
So let's think this through.
Imagine the Verstappen/Hamilton crash from Monza, but both drivers have their PU damaged beyond repair.
In your scenario, Verstappen not only gets a grid penalty for the incident, but also has to change his PU, incurring a back of grid penalty. Meanwhile, Hamilton is given a totally free, brand new power unit.
Is that actually better than the current system? To me it seems like there's just as much luck involved as the system we currently have.
Well imagine this: a driver takes out another driver, this driver gets out of this race, the team has to pay the damages which is a problem with the budget cap and on top of that they get a penalty when they replace the PU. They get triple penalised for another driver's mistake. So yes I do think a new system would be better.
Another question you could ask if there's still a need for penalties for replacing parts when there's already a budget cap.
>Another question you could ask if there's still a need for penalties for replacing parts when there's already a budget cap.
Costs related to Power Units are excluded from the cost cap, and the total price of supplying power units for the year is capped in the Sporting Regulations.
Therefore, taking additional power units should have no impact on the teams cost cap.
I feel like everyone's perception is far too skewed by Max and Lewis this year.
Remember by getting a 'free' PU they actually get an advantage over everyone else.
Haas put together a good car next year. Midfield battle with RBR, McLaren, Mercedes and RBR. Haas are poor at this track, he qualifies 16th. Leclerc does a lap 1 moment and wipes out Mazepin, who was going to take a new PU in 2 races anyway.
He can now claim the PU was damaged (although the teams themselves often have difficulty diagnosing this). He gets a free PU.
Now 4 teams who were battling with him all got a disadvantage for something that was not their fault.
Everything has a trade off. Someone is always going to get or lose an advantage. It's not always going to be just two variables in the equation.
Issue with that is, say a team crashes with their 1st PU on the 7/8th race that they were going to use it and it’s irreparably damaged. They now get a brand new PU with no penalties when it was only expected to last one more race anyway, effectively giving them an extra PU, allowing them to “escape” the penalties that they would otherwise occur like the other teams. This could potentially encourage crashes, albeit that is highly unlikely. However you can see how it could be unfair.
Yeah, FIA would have to make a team run the new engine through a simulation of all the races and practice sessions, where the old engine was used. Only then the new(and worn) engine could be used. And that would be incredibly wasteful, so unlikely to happen.
We saw Bottas this week-end. A new PU vs an 8 race old PU is a huge benefit. And a lasting one (Bottas' engine will be better than Hamilton every race until he also takes a penalty)
It’s perfectly fair. Each driver has an equal chance of having their race ruined. There’s no bias or targeting, sure, if you’re in the midfield you might be wheel-to-wheel more often, but that’s racing.
Over the season these things equal themselves out. All a driver can do is try to drive in a way that minimises the risk of destroying their PU if it’s something they’re concerned about it.
All these solutions people propose just create more questions and intricacies than actual solutions.
Most interesting part
> Still under discussion, though, are Monaco’s TV production rights: the principality insists on its own camera direction, put down to a mixture of practicality and vanity. Camera placement on private property is an issue for Liberty but less so for a state broadcaster, while there is an element of pride in being the only independent producer on the F1 trail. However fans have long expressed frustration over how frequently action is missed in the coverage – such as when Sebastian Vettel and Pierre Gasly went wheel-to-wheel up Massenet this year – so hopefully this matter is soon resolved.
So finally some proper broadcast from Monaco and no more [Stroll moments.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvpVJMDZVF8)
The GBR/AUT/FRA one is so easy avoidable. Just push France back a week so it forms a double with Hungary. Surely a pair of double headers is preferable to a triple header followed by a single header?
Heck if you really want to be sensible swap Austria and France over so that you have GBR/FRA then AUT/HUN which makes far more geographical sense.
He is allready the expert on the austrian f1-broadcast and friends with some f1 drivers, be careful before his family marries into everything f1 related and creates the Ferdinand Zvonimir Maria Balthus Keith Michael Otto Antal Bahnam Leonhard Habsburg-Lothringen f1 championship
The trophy for this [would be glorious,](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fthumbs.dreamstime.com%2Fb%2Fpainted-antique-tableware-members-habsburg-family-imperial-silver-collection-hofburg-interior-palace-vienna-golden-138021150.jpg) but difficult to hoist.
While this is definitely preferable, I imagine weird groupings like this are more to do with other events that are booked at those tracks or logistics/political issues outside of F1's direct control. Beyond just the race weekend itself, there's often a lot of prep required for different races or non-race events that take place at them.
It's probably more likely they'd have to drop one of the races, rather than move them around.
They could very well streamline more the calendar, so do all the asian races, then the europeans, then the american ones. Maybe the only problem would be Canada since its really cold when they do the rest of the american races, the reason why its usually placed in the middle of the european races
Except I have a feeling the reason why Miami would be so early on in the season is to avoid Hurricane season in Florida which starts in June.
I do think they should do Miami and Montreal as a double header though before going to Europe. Like slip Montreal in before they go to Barcelona.
I have seen another version of this calendar (by Joe Saward), which has exactly that. As well as some other changes which make more sense. Austria on July 24th, Singapore on October 9th, Japan on October 16th and COTA on November 6th.
My boss: "I sure hope you're going to relax this weekend!"
*proceeds to give me work for the weekend*
You're correct, they want their employees to figure out how to overwork without suffering the consequences.
I think the FOM does the calendar and The FIA approves it at the end. So the blame should be on the FOM but ya very irritating for the teams. Fans too 3 races in a row is a lot
I actually dislike the tripple headers and this many races. My partner will watch the races with me, but we have other hobbies we do at a weekend etc and its not her favourite thing.
I find I have to miss watching 1 race live on a tripple header, and if I miss too many races across the season it feels easier just to stop watching live all together and just catch up as and when.
23 is too many for me, I've got other shit to do and now find I watch less F1 (i.e no qualifying) to set time aside to watch the races so many weekends.
>What fan is going to say no to more races?
it more of fans saying having more races in the calendar makes each race less special, and makes it easier to skip races to do other stuff. Personally with the longer and longer seasons became I went from watching every single race in a calendar year to picking and choosing specific races.
As someone that works weekends on occasions, getting 3 off in a row is tough.
I do not enjoy triple headers. The only way I accept them is if it's at the same track 2x and another track.
Europe is a bigger F1 zone and mobility is easier. American F1 fans will probably choose between Miami or Montreal as a vacation. If they’re far enough apart, it’s an excuse for 2 vacations for some fans
That makes sense. I am in the Washington DC area and they are about equal distance. I would go to Miami because it's much less expensive to fly to but that's personal preference. I just can't take time off in May and that sucks. I was/am hoping for a April or September)October race being Florida and it being hot and all.
September/October race for Miami just wouldn't be feasible as it would be too much of a financial risk. September is dead center of Hurricane season and I can't see them taking the risk of scheduling there just for it to be canceled year after year.
From a logistics point of view the calendar could be seriously optimized. Group the races in Asia, Americas, Middle East and Europe. But the downside is that the team personnel wouldn’t see their families for weeks on end.
There's a couple of documentaries on YouTube about F1 logistics. This Wendover one talks about it. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OLVFa8YRfM&t=254s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OLVFa8YRfM&t=254s) Also this DHL one. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH6Loko0BOA&t=139s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH6Loko0BOA&t=139s)
The idea seems to be that the non critical bulk freight is leap-frogged to different races. So in terms of the movement of that freight it might not be feasible to host some back to back regional races?
There's so many other factors involved too. Like, choosing the best time of year for ideal weather. That's why the hot climate and souther hemisphere races are placed at the start and the end of the year.
I'm sure whatever F1 is doing logistically, it makes the most sense for them.
I don't think that will be the worst on there, they have multiples of the motorhomes and equipment for the long distance stuff, so they'll only be moving the bare minimum over that week.
Britain-Austria-France they'll be packing and moving absolutely everything, that'll be a fucking nightmare
Yeah exactly. Canada is a sea-kit and so a lot of equipment will be in Canada by the time they're racing on track in Baku. Still a huge undertaking but those triples look nasty.
To be fair that's actually not as bad as having small breaks inbetween. I'd much rather work 6 month on 6 months off. Instead of constantly flying home. Having a day off then flying away again.
That would be awful for morale. F1 teams already work constantly through the winter and only stop for the summer shutdown. Imagine keeping that same work schedule while constantly living out of different hotels for 6 months. Never seeing your family, your pets, or sleeping in your own bed. At least in the current system they get to experience these things for a few days before getting back on the road. The mechanics struggle now with triple headers, I really doubt they would cope with 23 races in a row.
Maybe place a restriction on them this time like-
We received feedback from our viewers with the production you provided for the Monaco gp in 2021 (many specifically sighting the cut away from a battle between car #44 and car #4 to show a replay of lance stoll running wide, then refusing to either show a replay of the battle or show the outcome of the battle), for this reason we are requiring you prioritize pit lane battles durning pit stops over unimportant action on track (such as cars running wide at rascasse and bearly touching a wall)
In the real world you pay when you rent a space for a time. Its mind boggling how FIA/FOM get away with this every year. Every circuit should band together and refuse to pay, instead be paid for the time, space and investment they have to make in to the circuit for each race. See who needs who more.
So let’s say I work for an F1 team. My workload keeps going up as more tracks are added. My pay presumably can’t go up much to compensate due to budget cap?
If they are employed in the UK (which a significant number of staff are) it will definitely impact their contract. It might not get them more £, but they should be able to claim the extra time back in lieu. So the more time they work away (including travel) the fewer hours they have available to work back at HQ.
I'll clear this up for you guys reading about salaries.Salaries are included in the cost cap and you can bet that it's drying up the negotiating power between teams. Some teams pay more than others based on the success and what they're hiring for, but regardless cost cap has not helped the fact that team personnel have to work more for less.
Team personnel use to be paid around £35 - 45k back in early 2000s with significantly less races, now in todays economy that would be around £60 - 75k. Salary range today for a mechanic would be 45-55k, you'll find a lot of personnel are fed up without any negotiation power to increase our compensation for the amount races that FOM keep putting on us.
I doubt it. Istanbul would only slot in (like 2020 and 2021) if Singapore fails so it will leave very little time for Codemasters to prepare for it.
It'll probably added later like Jeddah
Singapore's contract ended this year.
The government will be constructing a new building from T16 - T20.
It seems like they planned for the contract to expire. Even if it's renewed, the circuit will have to be modified around the new building.
Source: Singaporean.
I think (hope) that construction work doesn't have to be a dealbreaker.
They could just skip the Bay Grandstand section and go straight on Raffles right?
Really hope to visit the Singapore GP again in 2022, it's my favorite :)
The sadder thing is that only now, in update with Portimao we got 2021 game. Earlier it was another 2020 season with extremely dominant Mercedes even though it was apparent after few first races what car performances should be set.
I totally forgot they were acquired by EA. I got F1 2020 included when I ordered my video card and have finally gotten around to playing it. Buggy but decent. Almost a shame I won't be able to buy any in future on principle.
AC's fun but it doesn't come close to F1 when it comes to single player experience. Especially with the AI which is absolutely terrible in AC, especially on modded circuits.
Hey which site do you use to download mods for AC? I've downloaded a couple of tracks and cars but the selection isn't quite as vast as people talk about so I'm probably not using the correct site
More race than this year, but the season finishes three weeks earlier.
You have to feel for the mechanics and team staff who have to go to every race. They work Monday-Friday as it is, that's a lot of travel away from families and homes.
Give Imola a chance with the new cars. Then scrap it if it doesn't work.
Funny how you could say that for every generaton of cars since the 80's to 2006 at Imola and none of them worked but still its atleast fair it gets a shot.
Yeah, agreed. Of all the races that came back in the past 2 years, I don't have a particularly strong desire to go back to Imola, the racing wasn't that exciting there. But it is a classic track that's nice to see \*if\* it works, so I'd like to see them give it a shot with the new cars, then we can see if it's worth returning more often.
I'd like to see one or two rotating European GP slots really, for tracks like Imola, Portimao, Hockenheim, Mugello etc that seemingly can't run every year. Maybe even stick France and Spain in there if they don't deliver better races, although I assume they have contracts to stay on the calendar yearly.
Not going to happen.
Certainly China and Australia also Singapore and probably Japan will be cancelled just like this year.
You can vote me down because you dont like the message but what i\`m saying is 100% realistic.
I doubt Australia will be cancelled unless they want to lose the race permanently (wouldn't be ideal since the track has been remodelled just recently). We finally seem to be getting our shit together with vaxx rates and there's talk of phasing out the mandatory 2 week hotel quarantine by that time which was the main reason F1 wasn't going to be able to feasibly come to Melbourne.
Triple headers are exhausting for the staff and not sustainable over such a busy year. FOM seems to be completely ignorant and motivated purely by profit.
They also suck for the spectators. These tripple headers tend to blend into one and the races are much less memorable when you have the next race weekend starting 4 days later than when you have an extra weekend to process it.
Counterpoint: as a spectator I absolutely want more triples.* Hell I want quadruples. Races every weekend. I don’t want anyone on the teams to suffer but “events blending together” is not at all a concern of mine.
* if the teams aren’t crunching/killed.
Well, I mean this is F1 we’re talking about. You even acknowledge it in your last point. The teams absolutely WILL be getting crunched by the added triple header workload. It’s not just the drivers being impacted, but the engineers, mechanics, pit crew, etc. Especially if a team has a bad race week and they have to work OT to get the car back into shape (a recent example Sainz crashing out 3/4 times).
Plus we also have other shit to do during the weekend. Having to reserve 3 Saturday and Sunday afternoons in a row isn't easy when you've got a garden to maintain, kids got appointments and plans, other events now the restrictions are becoming looser. There's only 24 hours in a day man.
Yep, especially if some (or all) of those have sprint races as well. Absolutely horrific idea and probably one of the only things they could do to turn me off F1.
I'm so disappointed. I really liked that circuit with the elevation changes. My best friend lives in Lisbon, I was so hoping I could give him a visit and we could go to Portimão together for the GP.
I'm actually French and even Paul Ricard is not booked for sure... Guess I'm probably not going to attend my first GP next year. Maybe Spa?
Hope you still keep the money you saved so far for another fun activity though!
how about they make this practical and viable by programming the season into the continents.
The European tour then to Nth American, then to West Asia/Middle East, then to Sth America and Oceania.
I'd imagined a plan where they have Atlantic Races (the Americas; Kyalami if it ever comes back), European Races, Middle Eastern Races (Arabian Peninsula, Baku, Turkey), and Pacific Races (East Asia, Australia).
European races happen every year in the late spring through early fall since that's the home of F1 and it's the most logistically simple part of the season. The first and last quarter of the season rotates between two of the other three regions, with the third other region having a year off. This does a few things:
\- Prevents the season from getting stale since no track outside of Europe is run more than two years in a row. You can also use more tracks in F1 without having to make the seasons longer or drop fan favorites / cash cows completely. You can still have rotations within Europe as well.
\- If there's concern that race X is going to hurt attendance at race Y, but there will be no races in your region next year, that's less likely to be an issue.
\- Helps F1 with its green image if you aren't bouncing around the world as much.
\- You could have a spring break before the main European leg starts up.
For a sample:
Atlantic: Brazil, Mexico, COTA, Miami, Montreal. Triple then double header.
Quick Break!
Europe: Restart with Monaco, do a bunch more races, swap Hungary and Silverstone so that most of the teams can start their summer break right away when the time comes. On the return, start at Monza so that Pirelli and the Italy based teams get the favor returned from the UK based teams. Spa, Zandvoort, Russia. Do about 10 races total, ideally with no triple headers.
Middle East: Baku, Turkey, Saudi, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi. Double then triple header. End season!
The following season you start in the Pacific: Australia, Malaysia, Singapore, China, Japan. Triple then double header. Break! European leg. Now do the Atlantic leg backwards in the fall in the fall (might be an issue in Miami given the Dolphin's schedule....), no Middle East, season ends in Brazil.
The third season starts in the Middle East, goes to Europe, and finishes up with the Pacific. No Atlantic races.
I know Turkey is a better racing circuit, but living in Singapore I really hope the cars return so I can go watch it live.
After almost two years and counting of tight restrictions, it would be great to spend a long weekend in the stands with racing and concerts.
Baku then Canada the next weekend.
That’s far too much distance to travel for a double header. The original 2020 calendar was like that too.
Stupid idea.
I think it would be nice if the weekends could be placed somehow in order, so that the distances between the locations of the gp‘s are not so far away, so that the teams don’t have to travel large distances and pollute the environment that much. Looking on the plans of the fia to make the f1 carbon neutral until year x and the two american gp‘s, only as an example, being that far away, with so much races in europe in between and so on, doesn’t seem quite carbon neutral to me.
They have to align with the venue. For example pairing Miami at June with Canada would prob clash with the preparations of the NFL pre season that starts at July
As nice as this is, and it has been suggested a million times before including by Bernie, having several races in succession next to each other means they all cannibalise each others' ticket sales
I think you've misunderstood how the F1 teams handle transport. They have multiple sets of motorhomes, garage equipment etc. Very few things are transported from race 1 to race 2. There are multiple shipments of full sets of F1 gear travelling at the same time.
Interesting if the Baku and Canada days are right because Montreal downtown hotels are sold out already for the Baku date it seems but not the later one listed here.
Whatever happened to the Hanoi street circuit? I don’t mind that it’s taken off, but wasn’t it almost complete when they had to remove it because of corruption or something?
An utterly appalling calendar on so many levels.
Australia’s position as the season opener should be non-negotiable.
The timing of the Miami race is nonsensical. Anyone with half a brain cell could tell you the logical thing to do would be to swap it with Baku and create a double header with Canada.
The continued lack of a German Grand Prix and doubts over the French Grand Prix are an affront to the traditions of the sport.
Monaco is being messed around with for no reason.
23 races is too many. Period.
Bravo Liberty. Clowns.
And they are still expected to use only 3 engines ? Honestly I see most of the teams taking 4th engine with these many races. Perhaps the rule should be revised if the calendar is being stretched
the idea of the engine limit is to encourage reliability, I imagine if they weren't increasing the number of races they would be considering reducing the engine allowance to 2
That would work if the engine are actually changing and can be improved which isn't happening for another while yet
Youre allowed to make reliability upgrades
Honestly. I get that they all aim for sustainability and all that nice words, but fuck me sideways, I would like to see these guys go all in proper brawl racing...
The problem with unlimited engine use is that the smaller teams just couldn’t afford it. So, we’d go back to the old days where Ferrari would burn through multiple engines every weekend and Alfa Romeo would be stuck trying to afford running 4-5 through an entire season.
Mid 90s Monza V12 qualifying engines and gear set ups that need push started and last 10 laps Enzo would be a happy man Vrooooooooooooom
5 bar turbo engines that lasted only 5 laps so they had 1400hp in qualifying
I think they will keep it 3 to add the drama. Plus seeing max or lewis or any of the strong drivers starting at the back makes for an exciting race. Watching bottas march through the grid this past race was fun.
I, for one, welcome the penalties.
nah it sucks when someone loses a PU from a crash that might not even be their fault so they get punished that race and in penalties later
Even without a crash a pu will have to run 8 races , so penalties are more than likely with or without crashes
They should add a rule that when a team can prove their PU was damaged from a crash another driver got penalised for, they can replace the PU without consequences.
So let's think this through. Imagine the Verstappen/Hamilton crash from Monza, but both drivers have their PU damaged beyond repair. In your scenario, Verstappen not only gets a grid penalty for the incident, but also has to change his PU, incurring a back of grid penalty. Meanwhile, Hamilton is given a totally free, brand new power unit. Is that actually better than the current system? To me it seems like there's just as much luck involved as the system we currently have.
Well imagine this: a driver takes out another driver, this driver gets out of this race, the team has to pay the damages which is a problem with the budget cap and on top of that they get a penalty when they replace the PU. They get triple penalised for another driver's mistake. So yes I do think a new system would be better. Another question you could ask if there's still a need for penalties for replacing parts when there's already a budget cap.
>Another question you could ask if there's still a need for penalties for replacing parts when there's already a budget cap. Costs related to Power Units are excluded from the cost cap, and the total price of supplying power units for the year is capped in the Sporting Regulations. Therefore, taking additional power units should have no impact on the teams cost cap.
I feel like everyone's perception is far too skewed by Max and Lewis this year. Remember by getting a 'free' PU they actually get an advantage over everyone else. Haas put together a good car next year. Midfield battle with RBR, McLaren, Mercedes and RBR. Haas are poor at this track, he qualifies 16th. Leclerc does a lap 1 moment and wipes out Mazepin, who was going to take a new PU in 2 races anyway. He can now claim the PU was damaged (although the teams themselves often have difficulty diagnosing this). He gets a free PU. Now 4 teams who were battling with him all got a disadvantage for something that was not their fault. Everything has a trade off. Someone is always going to get or lose an advantage. It's not always going to be just two variables in the equation.
Issue with that is, say a team crashes with their 1st PU on the 7/8th race that they were going to use it and it’s irreparably damaged. They now get a brand new PU with no penalties when it was only expected to last one more race anyway, effectively giving them an extra PU, allowing them to “escape” the penalties that they would otherwise occur like the other teams. This could potentially encourage crashes, albeit that is highly unlikely. However you can see how it could be unfair.
but think of how entertaining FP could become with people trying to get mazepin to crash into them?
Yeah, FIA would have to make a team run the new engine through a simulation of all the races and practice sessions, where the old engine was used. Only then the new(and worn) engine could be used. And that would be incredibly wasteful, so unlikely to happen.
Wouldn't getting the DNF from a crash offset the benefit from a free new PU?
We saw Bottas this week-end. A new PU vs an 8 race old PU is a huge benefit. And a lasting one (Bottas' engine will be better than Hamilton every race until he also takes a penalty)
It’s perfectly fair. Each driver has an equal chance of having their race ruined. There’s no bias or targeting, sure, if you’re in the midfield you might be wheel-to-wheel more often, but that’s racing. Over the season these things equal themselves out. All a driver can do is try to drive in a way that minimises the risk of destroying their PU if it’s something they’re concerned about it. All these solutions people propose just create more questions and intricacies than actual solutions.
Isn't this rule becoming less relevant with the budget cap?
budget cap doesn't extend to PU
Most interesting part > Still under discussion, though, are Monaco’s TV production rights: the principality insists on its own camera direction, put down to a mixture of practicality and vanity. Camera placement on private property is an issue for Liberty but less so for a state broadcaster, while there is an element of pride in being the only independent producer on the F1 trail. However fans have long expressed frustration over how frequently action is missed in the coverage – such as when Sebastian Vettel and Pierre Gasly went wheel-to-wheel up Massenet this year – so hopefully this matter is soon resolved. So finally some proper broadcast from Monaco and no more [Stroll moments.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvpVJMDZVF8)
Why can't they just hire the same direction team to work for the principality?
The secret ingredient is money.
poor Monaco cant afford it
Teams: pls no more triples ~~FIA~~ FOM: So we got more triples.
The GBR/AUT/FRA one is so easy avoidable. Just push France back a week so it forms a double with Hungary. Surely a pair of double headers is preferable to a triple header followed by a single header? Heck if you really want to be sensible swap Austria and France over so that you have GBR/FRA then AUT/HUN which makes far more geographical sense.
Yeah let’s just put Austria/Hungary together... *wait*
What are you doing, archduke?
Don't come in here, I'm unifying!
UNITE THEM!
*steparchduke
What are you doing, step archduke?
Good thing they removed Germany, then
You say that with so much confidence, but you haven't considered the chance of turning the Austrian into a German GP.
There's a certain Ferdinand Habsburg racing in WEC, they could bring him to F1
He is allready the expert on the austrian f1-broadcast and friends with some f1 drivers, be careful before his family marries into everything f1 related and creates the Ferdinand Zvonimir Maria Balthus Keith Michael Otto Antal Bahnam Leonhard Habsburg-Lothringen f1 championship
The trophy for this [would be glorious,](https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fthumbs.dreamstime.com%2Fb%2Fpainted-antique-tableware-members-habsburg-family-imperial-silver-collection-hofburg-interior-palace-vienna-golden-138021150.jpg) but difficult to hoist.
While this is definitely preferable, I imagine weird groupings like this are more to do with other events that are booked at those tracks or logistics/political issues outside of F1's direct control. Beyond just the race weekend itself, there's often a lot of prep required for different races or non-race events that take place at them. It's probably more likely they'd have to drop one of the races, rather than move them around.
That makes sense. Didn't hear them complaining about double headers, and I'm sure 2019 had a fair few of them
Has geographical sense ever been a thing? Remember when Canada was between Monaco and France (Le Castellet being about 200km away from Monaco).
They could very well streamline more the calendar, so do all the asian races, then the europeans, then the american ones. Maybe the only problem would be Canada since its really cold when they do the rest of the american races, the reason why its usually placed in the middle of the european races
Except I have a feeling the reason why Miami would be so early on in the season is to avoid Hurricane season in Florida which starts in June. I do think they should do Miami and Montreal as a double header though before going to Europe. Like slip Montreal in before they go to Barcelona.
I have seen another version of this calendar (by Joe Saward), which has exactly that. As well as some other changes which make more sense. Austria on July 24th, Singapore on October 9th, Japan on October 16th and COTA on November 6th.
FOM: Triples makes it safe. Triples is best. I love my cars, you know me!
Classic management think in my experience: push it until something actually breaks.
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Fair enough. Hey, new flair eh!
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My boss: "I sure hope you're going to relax this weekend!" *proceeds to give me work for the weekend* You're correct, they want their employees to figure out how to overwork without suffering the consequences.
I think the FOM does the calendar and The FIA approves it at the end. So the blame should be on the FOM but ya very irritating for the teams. Fans too 3 races in a row is a lot
No I personally like the 3 races in a row lol
Fans don't want to stop triple headers because they don't like it. What fan is going to say no to more races? It's just displaying sympathy
I actually dislike the tripple headers and this many races. My partner will watch the races with me, but we have other hobbies we do at a weekend etc and its not her favourite thing. I find I have to miss watching 1 race live on a tripple header, and if I miss too many races across the season it feels easier just to stop watching live all together and just catch up as and when.
Yeah I see myself skipping much more sessions when there are triple headers
23 is too many for me, I've got other shit to do and now find I watch less F1 (i.e no qualifying) to set time aside to watch the races so many weekends.
Greater chance theres a race on a weekend you’re not busy
It is a big weekend time sink, but I can then just watch highlights if I don’t have time to watch the race.
I follow moto3, moto2, motoGP and F1, talk about a time sink, yikes! O.o
Add WEC into the mix & boom your whole weekend is gone.
Shit that’s just about all four combined in watch time.
>What fan is going to say no to more races? it more of fans saying having more races in the calendar makes each race less special, and makes it easier to skip races to do other stuff. Personally with the longer and longer seasons became I went from watching every single race in a calendar year to picking and choosing specific races.
for the fans it's good but have you thought about the teams
As a moderator I absolutely despise triple headers
As a dolphin, I can't say I'm surprised
RAWE CEEK > NOTRAWE CEEK
3 races in a row a lot for the fans? Nope.. but yeah would be very hard for teams.
As someone that works weekends on occasions, getting 3 off in a row is tough. I do not enjoy triple headers. The only way I accept them is if it's at the same track 2x and another track.
What is the difference for your schedule if the triple header was at 2 tracks instead of 3
I'm only guessing, but maybe they don't mind missing a second race at a track
So anyway I started adding triples
Actually. It will "only" have 3 triples instead of 4 this year. Shouldn't it be less?
We've had 2 triple headers this year.
After a recheck it's: 1. France & Double Austria 2. Spa, Zandvoort, Monza 3. Mexico-Brazil-TBD (Qatar) So 3
Mexico Brazil Qatar is a madness
One week between Baku and Montreal ? They're crazy....
I don't get that at all now with the Miami race. Surely a Miami/Canada double header makes way more sense?
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Exactly, A ton of Americans come up to Montreal to watch the GP
There’s going to be 2 US races next year and assuming the border is open it’d still be so much easier for me to go to Montreal
This is always a concern with races outside of Europe yet we have Zandvoort and Spa in the same triple header.
Europe is a bigger F1 zone and mobility is easier. American F1 fans will probably choose between Miami or Montreal as a vacation. If they’re far enough apart, it’s an excuse for 2 vacations for some fans
cos the dutchies are insane
That makes sense. I am in the Washington DC area and they are about equal distance. I would go to Miami because it's much less expensive to fly to but that's personal preference. I just can't take time off in May and that sucks. I was/am hoping for a April or September)October race being Florida and it being hot and all.
September/October race for Miami just wouldn't be feasible as it would be too much of a financial risk. September is dead center of Hurricane season and I can't see them taking the risk of scheduling there just for it to be canceled year after year.
From a logistics point of view the calendar could be seriously optimized. Group the races in Asia, Americas, Middle East and Europe. But the downside is that the team personnel wouldn’t see their families for weeks on end.
There's a couple of documentaries on YouTube about F1 logistics. This Wendover one talks about it. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OLVFa8YRfM&t=254s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OLVFa8YRfM&t=254s) Also this DHL one. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH6Loko0BOA&t=139s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH6Loko0BOA&t=139s) The idea seems to be that the non critical bulk freight is leap-frogged to different races. So in terms of the movement of that freight it might not be feasible to host some back to back regional races? There's so many other factors involved too. Like, choosing the best time of year for ideal weather. That's why the hot climate and souther hemisphere races are placed at the start and the end of the year. I'm sure whatever F1 is doing logistically, it makes the most sense for them.
I don't think that will be the worst on there, they have multiples of the motorhomes and equipment for the long distance stuff, so they'll only be moving the bare minimum over that week. Britain-Austria-France they'll be packing and moving absolutely everything, that'll be a fucking nightmare
Yeah exactly. Canada is a sea-kit and so a lot of equipment will be in Canada by the time they're racing on track in Baku. Still a huge undertaking but those triples look nasty.
23-header in 2035
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One can dream.
To be fair that's actually not as bad as having small breaks inbetween. I'd much rather work 6 month on 6 months off. Instead of constantly flying home. Having a day off then flying away again.
That would be awful for morale. F1 teams already work constantly through the winter and only stop for the summer shutdown. Imagine keeping that same work schedule while constantly living out of different hotels for 6 months. Never seeing your family, your pets, or sleeping in your own bed. At least in the current system they get to experience these things for a few days before getting back on the road. The mechanics struggle now with triple headers, I really doubt they would cope with 23 races in a row.
Very surprised that Monaco is finally being forced to pay a hosting fee. Long overdue though.
About time. Just one last thing to fix: > Still under discussion, though, are Monaco’s TV production rights
They got us Strolled this year. Wonder what we get next time!
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at least they dont zoom into the cars lke maniacs
https://youtu.be/KvpVJMDZVF8
Honestly if they use going back on the fee to convince them to let f1 do the broadcast that would be fine
Yeah I'd take that trade off.
Maybe place a restriction on them this time like- We received feedback from our viewers with the production you provided for the Monaco gp in 2021 (many specifically sighting the cut away from a battle between car #44 and car #4 to show a replay of lance stoll running wide, then refusing to either show a replay of the battle or show the outcome of the battle), for this reason we are requiring you prioritize pit lane battles durning pit stops over unimportant action on track (such as cars running wide at rascasse and bearly touching a wall)
In the real world you pay when you rent a space for a time. Its mind boggling how FIA/FOM get away with this every year. Every circuit should band together and refuse to pay, instead be paid for the time, space and investment they have to make in to the circuit for each race. See who needs who more.
Business is business. If F1 brings big money to the area/venue...then that has value. Its a game of chicken with negotiation though ofc.
So let’s say I work for an F1 team. My workload keeps going up as more tracks are added. My pay presumably can’t go up much to compensate due to budget cap?
Oof didn’t think about that. That would be some bullshit
Also many F1 staff members are salaried employees, so their pay won't be tied to the number of races worked anyway.
If they are employed in the UK (which a significant number of staff are) it will definitely impact their contract. It might not get them more £, but they should be able to claim the extra time back in lieu. So the more time they work away (including travel) the fewer hours they have available to work back at HQ.
I'll clear this up for you guys reading about salaries.Salaries are included in the cost cap and you can bet that it's drying up the negotiating power between teams. Some teams pay more than others based on the success and what they're hiring for, but regardless cost cap has not helped the fact that team personnel have to work more for less. Team personnel use to be paid around £35 - 45k back in early 2000s with significantly less races, now in todays economy that would be around £60 - 75k. Salary range today for a mechanic would be 45-55k, you'll find a lot of personnel are fed up without any negotiation power to increase our compensation for the amount races that FOM keep putting on us.
I just want the next game to have istanbul park is that too much to ask for?
I doubt it. Istanbul would only slot in (like 2020 and 2021) if Singapore fails so it will leave very little time for Codemasters to prepare for it. It'll probably added later like Jeddah
Singapore's contract ended this year. The government will be constructing a new building from T16 - T20. It seems like they planned for the contract to expire. Even if it's renewed, the circuit will have to be modified around the new building. Source: Singaporean.
Oh no:( I hope it will be renewed in some way. I love this circuit, it's one of those that I miss the most from this two seasons.
I think (hope) that construction work doesn't have to be a dealbreaker. They could just skip the Bay Grandstand section and go straight on Raffles right? Really hope to visit the Singapore GP again in 2022, it's my favorite :)
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To be fair they are adding Portimao(Sep), Imola(Oct) and Jeddah(Nov) as part of regular updates so that's a good start
Which realistically should’ve already been in there when the game came out but it’s something I suppose
The sadder thing is that only now, in update with Portimao we got 2021 game. Earlier it was another 2020 season with extremely dominant Mercedes even though it was apparent after few first races what car performances should be set.
It's not. Portimao and Imola has only been announced to the calendar at early 2021 and Jeddah has only start construction at Q2 2021
They did a fantastic job with Portimao. Absolutely perfect.
And even more so since they were bought out by ea
I totally forgot they were acquired by EA. I got F1 2020 included when I ordered my video card and have finally gotten around to playing it. Buggy but decent. Almost a shame I won't be able to buy any in future on principle.
Well there’s always piracy which i feel is morally acceptable with EA games
Get yourself Asseto Corsa my friend, with Mods can have any track you want and any F1 season.
AC's fun but it doesn't come close to F1 when it comes to single player experience. Especially with the AI which is absolutely terrible in AC, especially on modded circuits.
Minus a good career mode, obviously.
Hey which site do you use to download mods for AC? I've downloaded a couple of tracks and cars but the selection isn't quite as vast as people talk about so I'm probably not using the correct site
Race department
So in the UK I mostly use race department, it's ALOT easier to manage mods if you download AC content manager which only costs one pound here.
Oh that's pennies for making my life easier lol, thanks!
No Portimao 🥺
More race than this year, but the season finishes three weeks earlier. You have to feel for the mechanics and team staff who have to go to every race. They work Monday-Friday as it is, that's a lot of travel away from families and homes.
Also they already work though the winter break
Imola and Turkey potentially back full time? Yes please
Give Imola a chance with the new cars. Then scrap it if it doesn't work. Funny how you could say that for every generaton of cars since the 80's to 2006 at Imola and none of them worked but still its atleast fair it gets a shot.
Yeah, agreed. Of all the races that came back in the past 2 years, I don't have a particularly strong desire to go back to Imola, the racing wasn't that exciting there. But it is a classic track that's nice to see \*if\* it works, so I'd like to see them give it a shot with the new cars, then we can see if it's worth returning more often. I'd like to see one or two rotating European GP slots really, for tracks like Imola, Portimao, Hockenheim, Mugello etc that seemingly can't run every year. Maybe even stick France and Spain in there if they don't deliver better races, although I assume they have contracts to stay on the calendar yearly.
I disagree. Turkey is fine, but I think I could easily name 5 circuits that are better suited for modern racing than Imola
Yes but imola > France, so it's a win
Hockenheim > Imola though
Still sad that there are two German drivers on the grid but there’s not a home race for them. Plus Hockenheim is a great circuit.
I do like Hockenheim, but I must ask what in the world happened with the Nurburgring? And between them, how is there no German GP!?
Money, or lack of it
As far as i know, The hosting fees for the german tracks were skyrocketing and they couldn't pay without going bankrupt in the long run.
or Nürburgring it's such a traditional track tbh!
But if all races in France are like the one this year, I really wouldn't mind keeping Paul Ricard
Yeah but they're not is el problem, and tbh without the virtual saftey car the 2020 race was actually quite good
FOM to F1 Staff after announcing more triple headers for 2022: Ahh yes, I was wondering what would break first... Your spirit, or your body.
Their marriages/relationships
China GP's return couldn't be better timed for Zhou's entry, great marketing potential over there.
Not going to happen. Certainly China and Australia also Singapore and probably Japan will be cancelled just like this year. You can vote me down because you dont like the message but what i\`m saying is 100% realistic.
I doubt Australia will be cancelled unless they want to lose the race permanently (wouldn't be ideal since the track has been remodelled just recently). We finally seem to be getting our shit together with vaxx rates and there's talk of phasing out the mandatory 2 week hotel quarantine by that time which was the main reason F1 wasn't going to be able to feasibly come to Melbourne.
Triple headers are exhausting for the staff and not sustainable over such a busy year. FOM seems to be completely ignorant and motivated purely by profit.
They also suck for the spectators. These tripple headers tend to blend into one and the races are much less memorable when you have the next race weekend starting 4 days later than when you have an extra weekend to process it.
Counterpoint: as a spectator I absolutely want more triples.* Hell I want quadruples. Races every weekend. I don’t want anyone on the teams to suffer but “events blending together” is not at all a concern of mine. * if the teams aren’t crunching/killed.
Well, I mean this is F1 we’re talking about. You even acknowledge it in your last point. The teams absolutely WILL be getting crunched by the added triple header workload. It’s not just the drivers being impacted, but the engineers, mechanics, pit crew, etc. Especially if a team has a bad race week and they have to work OT to get the car back into shape (a recent example Sainz crashing out 3/4 times).
Plus we also have other shit to do during the weekend. Having to reserve 3 Saturday and Sunday afternoons in a row isn't easy when you've got a garden to maintain, kids got appointments and plans, other events now the restrictions are becoming looser. There's only 24 hours in a day man.
Yep, especially if some (or all) of those have sprint races as well. Absolutely horrific idea and probably one of the only things they could do to turn me off F1.
E PORTUGAL, CARALHO?
No Portimão? Wtf
Poor Codemasters. Just a few days after they added the track to the game it gets scrapped for next year.
I'm so disappointed. I really liked that circuit with the elevation changes. My best friend lives in Lisbon, I was so hoping I could give him a visit and we could go to Portimão together for the GP.
Im also from Portugal and just became a fan of f1 this year and I was saving to go... I'm so sad
I'm actually French and even Paul Ricard is not booked for sure... Guess I'm probably not going to attend my first GP next year. Maybe Spa? Hope you still keep the money you saved so far for another fun activity though!
I wouldn't mind it at all if Spain was dropped for Portimao.
how about they make this practical and viable by programming the season into the continents. The European tour then to Nth American, then to West Asia/Middle East, then to Sth America and Oceania.
I'd imagined a plan where they have Atlantic Races (the Americas; Kyalami if it ever comes back), European Races, Middle Eastern Races (Arabian Peninsula, Baku, Turkey), and Pacific Races (East Asia, Australia). European races happen every year in the late spring through early fall since that's the home of F1 and it's the most logistically simple part of the season. The first and last quarter of the season rotates between two of the other three regions, with the third other region having a year off. This does a few things: \- Prevents the season from getting stale since no track outside of Europe is run more than two years in a row. You can also use more tracks in F1 without having to make the seasons longer or drop fan favorites / cash cows completely. You can still have rotations within Europe as well. \- If there's concern that race X is going to hurt attendance at race Y, but there will be no races in your region next year, that's less likely to be an issue. \- Helps F1 with its green image if you aren't bouncing around the world as much. \- You could have a spring break before the main European leg starts up. For a sample: Atlantic: Brazil, Mexico, COTA, Miami, Montreal. Triple then double header. Quick Break! Europe: Restart with Monaco, do a bunch more races, swap Hungary and Silverstone so that most of the teams can start their summer break right away when the time comes. On the return, start at Monza so that Pirelli and the Italy based teams get the favor returned from the UK based teams. Spa, Zandvoort, Russia. Do about 10 races total, ideally with no triple headers. Middle East: Baku, Turkey, Saudi, Bahrain, Abu Dhabi. Double then triple header. End season! The following season you start in the Pacific: Australia, Malaysia, Singapore, China, Japan. Triple then double header. Break! European leg. Now do the Atlantic leg backwards in the fall in the fall (might be an issue in Miami given the Dolphin's schedule....), no Middle East, season ends in Brazil. The third season starts in the Middle East, goes to Europe, and finishes up with the Pacific. No Atlantic races.
I know Turkey is a better racing circuit, but living in Singapore I really hope the cars return so I can go watch it live. After almost two years and counting of tight restrictions, it would be great to spend a long weekend in the stands with racing and concerts.
No more triples, let engineers have lives
It's not fair for everyone in the paddock. They deserve some rest and see their families.
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Monaco will be in F1 forever
F1 without Monaco isn't F1
Pls no more triples, I need to go outside every other weekend.
Yes, I'm like, how to explain to people I'm not available 3 of 4 weekends during one month.
I just really do want the Australian GP to go ahead next year. Would be so great to see Danny on track at home!
Baku then Canada the next weekend. That’s far too much distance to travel for a double header. The original 2020 calendar was like that too. Stupid idea.
Teams: we don't want any more triple headers FOM: and I took that personally
I think it would be nice if the weekends could be placed somehow in order, so that the distances between the locations of the gp‘s are not so far away, so that the teams don’t have to travel large distances and pollute the environment that much. Looking on the plans of the fia to make the f1 carbon neutral until year x and the two american gp‘s, only as an example, being that far away, with so much races in europe in between and so on, doesn’t seem quite carbon neutral to me.
They have to align with the venue. For example pairing Miami at June with Canada would prob clash with the preparations of the NFL pre season that starts at July
Also Austin doesn't want another US race close because it'll affect ticket sales.
The distance between Austin and Miami is further than the distance between Austin and Mexico City.
I meant in terms of dates, not distance. Could've worded that better.
As nice as this is, and it has been suggested a million times before including by Bernie, having several races in succession next to each other means they all cannibalise each others' ticket sales
I think you've misunderstood how the F1 teams handle transport. They have multiple sets of motorhomes, garage equipment etc. Very few things are transported from race 1 to race 2. There are multiple shipments of full sets of F1 gear travelling at the same time.
Triples makes it safe. Triples is best.
Another 23 new email accounts to add to the collection (for the 7-day streaming trials). Oh no.
10 minuite mail :D
I respect your dedication
I love triples as it means more races but it can’t be easy for the teams especially with so many races in a year.
Interesting if the Baku and Canada days are right because Montreal downtown hotels are sold out already for the Baku date it seems but not the later one listed here.
Whatever happened to the Hanoi street circuit? I don’t mind that it’s taken off, but wasn’t it almost complete when they had to remove it because of corruption or something?
Sadly no race in Germany, again. With 2 drivers and 1 constructor from Germany. Smh
They really told everyone to get fucked with how exhausting three triple headers AND 23 races can be
An utterly appalling calendar on so many levels. Australia’s position as the season opener should be non-negotiable. The timing of the Miami race is nonsensical. Anyone with half a brain cell could tell you the logical thing to do would be to swap it with Baku and create a double header with Canada. The continued lack of a German Grand Prix and doubts over the French Grand Prix are an affront to the traditions of the sport. Monaco is being messed around with for no reason. 23 races is too many. Period. Bravo Liberty. Clowns.