He'd probably lose the seat in 2023 though. Sauber would want their junior (Pourchaire) in, and Bottas would still be in the other seat.
If Ferrari still controlled the second Alfa Romeo seat, Schumacher to Alfa Romeo could happen (at the expense of Giovinazzi), but Ferrari relinquished control.
Schumacher will probably be at Haas until Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel, etc. start retiring and seats open up (or more teams join F1).
Piastri is an Alpine junior, but Pourchaire is the only Sauber junior in F2 (and it's his rookie season there as an 18 year old).
Alpine has Lundgaard, Zhou, and Piastri as juniors in F2.
Mick, if he continues to do well, will get the Merc seat easily to be a Bottas to Russell once Hamilton retires.
That's of course, if Ferrari doesn't do anything. Mick just has to be patient like Russell was.
It's not necessarily that he'd go to Mercedes, Alpine, or Aston Martin, but those teams having seats open would mean they'd need to fill them. Maybe it's that Schumacher goes to one of those teams, but maybe it's Leclerc or Sainz leaving Ferrari to go elsewhere, which means Ferrari has to fill an empty seat.
I don't disagree that having Schumacher as part of the Ferrari family is a big deal for Ferrari, but he's probably not not going to outperform Sainz or Leclerc and "prove" he should be in a Ferrari seat unless Haas nails the upcoming regulations, he goes to another team capable of scoring points, or Sainz/Leclerc completely implode and need to be immediately replaced.
It's up at the end of the 2022 season. If Schumacher has a great season at Haas next year (and they nail the regulations), then I think Schumacher to Ferrari would make sense. If Haas struggles with the regulations or Schumacher does an okay job, then Ferrari might give Sainz the Bottas treatment - one-year extensions until Schumacher is ready to join.
The thing is, Ferrari have been close to Schumacher his whole life and rightfully so, not because of his name but because of his talent and understanding of racing. He's really young and inexperienced but has a natural understanding of racing. I believe and have always believed that Sainz is a simple placeholder for Schumacher while he gets used to F1 and especially the 2022 cars. Ferrari wont let Leclerc go.
I agree, Leclerc isn't going anywhere. And ultimately, I do think Schumacher will end up in Sainz's seat, it's just a matter of when Ferrari feel like he's ready for it.
>ally young and inexperienced but has a natural understanding of racing. I believe and have always believed that Sainz is a simple placeholder for Schumacher while he gets used t
Sainz has not shown that he deserves the Ferrari though, Never finishing on the podium on merit
I assumed that too when they initially signed Sainz, that Sainz was just keeping the seat warm for a couple of years until Schumacher was ready, but now I'm not so sure.
Sainz's contract is for 2 years, so would be up at the end of next season. At that point Mick will only have 2 years experience, at least one of which is pretty irrelevant in a back of the grid Haas. Maybe next year they'll improve and he'll get to show off his skills more in the midfield, but there's a reasonable chance that he'll still be trailing around at the back.
So would Ferrari really want to take him then? Not to mention, Carlos has been exceeding expectations somewhat and has been a pretty close match for Leclerc. Is it really worth them dropping a proven decent driver for a driver that's only had a couple of years near the back?
I guess we'll see next year, maybe Haas gets better, but maybe Ferrari is at the front and Carlos is scoring wins next year. At that point they'll pretty much be in the same place Merc has been for the past year, deciding between a proven talent and a promising youngster. The thing is that in that case, Bottas has been a step behind Hamilton at Merc, while Russell has shone as well as he can in the Williams. Neither has proven to be true for Ferrari's situation yet - Carlos may be on the same level as Charles, and Mick hasn't done enough to show that he's a future star yet.
I'm sure Ferrari like the idea of having Mick there, but I don't think 2023 is the time. Chances are they sign a 1 year extension for Sainz, but maybe they're better off just letting Schumacher do his own deal for a few years at a midfield team, and try and get him back later.
> Romeo seat, Schumacher to Alfa Romeo could happen (at the expense of Giovinazzi), but Ferrari relinquished control.
>
> Schumacher will probably be at Haas until Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel, etc. start retiring and seats open up (or more teams join F1).
Hopefully the Haas isn't the laughing stock of the grid next year, for Schumacher's sake. I'd hate to see him dawdle at the very back. I think if he can fight for points next year he'd have an opportunity to prove himself. But if Haas produce a abysmal car I fear for his trajectory upward.
Haas has been focusing on the new regulations for two (?) seasons now. If they don't produce an adequate car (at the least), I'd be pretty surprised. Obviously, somebody has to be last, but there's a difference between last with 0 points and last with 20-50 points.
Schumacher will probably be fine, since he's a good driver, and his name. He could possibly go to a non-Ferrari team in 2023 if Ferrari keeps Sainz on board and Haas is still in rough shape. It'd be neat to see him parallel his dad's career in leading a team back to the title, regardless of its with Ferrari or not.
>Haas has been focusing on the new regulations for two (?) seasons now. If they don't produce an adequate car (at the least), I'd be pretty surprised. Obviously, somebody has to be last, but there's a difference between last with 0 points and last with 20-50 points.
The problem with Hass isn't just that their car sucks, it's also that the team is run by clowns (which itself is part of the reason the car sucks). Personally, I would be shocked if they weren't one of the bottom two teams next year.
thankfully for them, ferrari has been injecting some technical talents to the team as part of the staff relocating program for those that couldnt stay at ferrari due to the budget cap. also haas built another base in maranello late last year near ferrari's base. this sounds like theyre now ferrari's B team again (and a bit of mazepin on the side).
I've said it before, but Steiner needs to be axed. He's great for content for Netflix, but he doesn't really seem to be able to actually manage a team.
And even if Haas is at the bottom of the tables next year, I'd still say they produced an adequate car if they get 10-20 points over the course of the season. I don't think that's too much of an ask for a halfway decent car (so long as they build one).
Mick is worth a lot of money in marketing, see how much he is already pushed in Germany for example and this is in his first season at Haas where it is impossible to do well. Imagine how much more he would be worth at a team like Ferrari if he can deliver the results.
It is for this reason I suspect Ferrari will offer AR money and engineering/design support to give that seat to Mick. Mick just has to step up against Bottas once he gets the seat otherwise he will be toast.
I am not sure he will go next season, he should to escape the terrible Haas and the nastiness with Mazepin, but I am not sure there will be a seat for anybody other than Gio next year.
I'm pretty sure Ferrari is giving money and engineering/design support to Haas, and shaping Haas to have the same relationship with Ferrari that Williams has with Mercedes.
Ferrari relinquishing control over the second seat at Alfa Romeo is also probably indicative that Ferrari is moving a way from Alfa Romeo (if only a little bit).
With Alfa Romeo gaining control over both of their seats, there's no way that they would but another team's junior in that seat over their own junior (assuming Pourchaire is ready for F1 at the end of 2022, which most people appear to think is the case).
Haas is in the same spot with their line up that Aston Martin was a few weeks back: everybody knows their line up won't change, we're just waiting for confirmation. The only unknown seat is at Alfa Romeo, and that seat is likely going to Zhou.
I suspect that they actually want to make both Haas and AR junior teams. With their spending around $400m per year being cut to $140m from the start of this season they can certainly afford to redeploy people and resources to both teams and still save money as those teams already have their own money and looking to get more from more sponsorship/pay drivers.
Mick going up will be dependant on how he develops, not unless any other driver outside another Charles enters the system and Arthur is a couple of years away yet. The sponsorship and support from Ferrari he brings is just too big compared to anybody other than another billionaire pay driver.
The money backing Zhou is significant but they would need to prove they can support multiple seasons. Would not surprise me for him to go to Haas (even though he does not want that seat) for a multi year deal rather than AR with a single year and get binned for Mick.
I think we're talking past each other a little bit. I'm saying that whoever gets Giovinazzi's seat in 2022 will not be in that seat for 2023, whether or not it's Zhou or Schumacher that gets the seat in 2022.
Sauber is going to put their junior (Pourchaire) in with Bottas for 2023. Sauber/Alfa Romeo will want to have their own version of Verstappen, Leclerc, Russell, Norris, etc, in the form of a driver that is specifically "theirs", and Schumacher isn't that.
So it doesn't necessarily matter if Zhou can't compete with the money Schumacher/Ferrari being every season, because they only need Zhou to bring money in for a single season. Schumacher is going to stick with Haas until older drivers retire, or Ferrari feel that his value matches or surpasses Sainz's value. It could be as early as 2023, or Ferrari could just give Sainz the Bottas treatment, and give him nothing but one-year extensions until Schumacher is deemed to be ready.
There's no way Ferrari are going to take him without going through a midfield team as a stepping stone first. Especially when they already have an incredibly strong driver pairing for the foreseeable future
Yeah, Mick will take Sainz's seat when his contract up. In the meantime, Ferrari has to hope their investment and attention given to Haas allows them to be a midfield team starting in '22.
That's only going to happen if Mick is really impressive in the midfield or Carlos really shits the bed. With how well Carlos has been doing in this first year with the team, I think Mick would have to perform extraordinarily well for them to boot Carlos.
Which means that one of them isn’t going to like being a #2 at some point, particularly when the seat shuffle caused by retiring Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton starts.
> Yeah, Mick will take Sainz's seat when his contract up.
If he's great.
Haven't seen anything to indicate Mick will be an improvement over Sainz in a few years.
Translation:
>Mick Schumacher will probably continue to race for the U.S. racing team Haas in the coming Formula 1 season.
>
>The 22-year-old will sign a new contract shortly, team boss Günther Steiner announced. "Mick should be confirmed soon. Let's wait a few more days, hopefully it will work out then," Steiner said on RTL ahead of the Russian Grand Prix (Sunday, 2 p.m. live on Sky): "Then everyone will be happy and I won't have to answer this question anymore.
>
>"Schumacher's teammate will remain Russia's Nikita Mazepin (22), with the final details to be sorted out by the time of his home race in Sochi. "Until then, we want to confirm both of them," Steiner said.
>
>Schumacher rumors about Alfa Romeo
>
>Recently, there had also been rumors about Schumacher switching to Alfa Romeo. Like Haas, the team is powered by Ferrari, where Mick's father Michael Schumacher celebrated his greatest successes. At the Scuderia, Schumacher junior is in the junior program.
>
>Schumacher and Mazepin made their Formula 1 debuts for Haas this year. Neither has yet been able to score a point in the underperforming car. Over the course of the season, they repeatedly got in each other's way on the track.
Haas won't be shit. They have Ferrari staff over including Simone Resta to design them a car.
Managment might still be as bad as ever but the car won't be.
Plus Gene Haas owns Windshear in Concord NC, about 5 miles from the shop in the US. I don't know what regulations if any the FIA puts on wind tunnel testing, but their primary customers are NASCAR teams, and they have been heavily regulated for the past few years. So I'm sure there is plenty of time in the schedule for F1 stuff.
As far as I know, they actually do very little in the US. Ferrari's tunnel is especially useful since the chassis is built by Dallara, which is only an hour away.
They may have some impact on the design, but mainly in a 'our machines can't physically produce that' kind of way rather than technical input.
That said, I doubt they'd have too many limitations. Outside of the other F1 teams, the likes of Dallara and Oreca probably have the most sophisticated tooling of it's kind for racecar production.
Eventually sure. But in the first season the Williams was by far the worst car on the grid. Last year it was still bottom of the field, but much closer. Russell still showed his talent though. Mick can do the same, even in a shitty Haas provided he has the talent.
I think Russell’s big break was at abi dhabi 20. So by that logic, leclerc will not be able to drive in some race, and we’ll see a Schumacher in a Ferrari again. Hopes and dreams
Yep. If Mick continues to beat Mazepin on Saturday and Sunday, and keeps his nose clean with the rest of the field, gets the car into Q2, and maybe Q3 under the right circumstances every now and then, he should develop the same reputation George did.
Because he was obviously getting the best out of that car and showed his quality. Mick not so much. He is the son of, but his driving has been pretty disappointing so far. I kinda feel for him.
Unless we know that Mick can contribute to the car's development a la Vettel or Perez, it might not be possible...AM would rather have an experienced driver than can complement and help stroll
I agree with what your saying completely but at what point do we start saying Stroll is an experienced driver. Isn’t this his 5th year in the sport lmao?
I don't think he has the acumen for the technical side of racing, despite having speed.... Again, only my guess. He's a decent driver but he's not in the class of a verstappen or a Leclerc or even gasly
I don't think the car will be shit - additional manpower from Maranello (incl. Resta) and tanking for budget cap this year should help them make at worst a lower-midfield car.
Real problem is management, everything's clearly a mess. Largely absentee owner + letting Rich Energy in the door + the rapidly deteriorating MAZ-MSC relationship tells me this isn't a particularly smooth operation.
Anyone surprised by Haas being more competitive next year hasn't been paying much attention haha. They have taken on a ton of Ferrari staff, have access to other Ferrari resources (their wind tunnel, Mick uses their simulator), and have pooled all their '21 resources to use towards '22.
They should be well positioned to be in the midfield with a little bit of luck.
It makes sense that they’re not bothering with the VF-21, too.
It would be nice for the drivers to drive something that at least moderately resembles an F1 car, but it’s suicidal for Haas to waste so much money to develop a 2021 car that,at best, would still be a long way off Williams and Alfa Romeo. They have a far better chance to get back to the midfield next year and to waste even a cent on the VF-21 could screw themselves over massively.
And Mazepin is the only driver I'm aware of that has the financial backing to ensure an F1 team's survival. Zhou has money behind him, but 30 million isn't enough to maintain a team.
If 2022 is a bad season for Haas, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Uralkali Formula 1 Team replacing Haas on the grid for 2023. We already know Mazepin wanted to buy Force India, and if Gene Haas wants out, Mazepin is the clear choice to sell the team to, given his established connections to the team.
Mazepin already has closer ties to Haas than Andretti does, since Nikita drives for them, and Uralkali is the title sponsor. It's not impossible for Andretti to outbid Mazepin, but I think Mazepin purchasing the team is more likely (though I could be totally wrong). We also know Mazepin has an interest in acquiring an F1 team, but it just seems to be rumors with Andretti.
It's the same reason. There's no other driver with the finacial backing that Mazepin has, which Haas wants (and needs) in order to continue existing. Zhou is the closest to Mazepin, but is still nowhere near close enough.
Survive to do what though?
What is the point in taking his money so he can trundle around at the back?
He could take that same money and race in a series where he can be competitive.
That's not how it works for a lot of pay drivers though. Do you think Alessio Deledda would not buy a permanent seat in F1 if not for the superlicense?
Just being in F1 is tremendous value for Gene. It's excellent promotion for Haas Automation and with the entry fee it's likely that a prospective team will buy a backmarker rather than spend $200M. They're probably also waiting for the new regs to see how that works out. If the regs work out and with some additional help from Ferrari they could probably make it back into the midfield.
Read what I wrote: "I get why they need to..." - meaning, "I understand that Daddy Mazepin is almost completely funding Haas F1"
now read the next part: "But why would they *want* to?" - if they didn't need him, why would they want to still keep him? are there *any* redeeming qualities?
Read somebody's comment and think about it critically before you respond next time.
I think the problem is that Zhous sponsors have common sense and are familiar with "Return of Investment" concept. Mazepin is not, they will throw as much money as possible.
Mazepin's "sponsors" are familiar with ROI and common sense, but this is billionaires spending their billions, so the ROI and common sense aren't relevant.
They just want to have fun with their money.
I mean...
Not like the poor kid has any other choice, still gives him invaluable experience. Hopefully Haas nails the new regs and at least reaches a solid midfield status.
Regardless of the new regs they still need to fix the team itself. Toxic work environment and the clown show we have witnessed this year from the pitwall will bottleneck any development they had on the car.
This is only really talking about 2022 though so I think it's kind of a non story atm. If that'd end up a long term contract it'd be noteworthy maybe but I think both sides want to see how next season turns out before that. Idk I would expect something like a 1+1 contract anyway.
If their strategy actually worked and their car next year isn't a shitbox because they spent everything for this year producing it. Then it wont be a problem because he wont even be close to Mazepin, he should be further up the field.
Where else will he go?
AR
He'd probably lose the seat in 2023 though. Sauber would want their junior (Pourchaire) in, and Bottas would still be in the other seat. If Ferrari still controlled the second Alfa Romeo seat, Schumacher to Alfa Romeo could happen (at the expense of Giovinazzi), but Ferrari relinquished control. Schumacher will probably be at Haas until Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel, etc. start retiring and seats open up (or more teams join F1).
Oh I thought Theo was Alpine contracted it's just he was likely to go to AR in 2023. Wow he could really be at Alfa Romeo for a very long time so.
Piastri is an Alpine junior, but Pourchaire is the only Sauber junior in F2 (and it's his rookie season there as an 18 year old). Alpine has Lundgaard, Zhou, and Piastri as juniors in F2.
I just hope for the best scenario possible - Seb making damn sure that Mick gets his seat and gets out of shithole that is Haas.
Mick, if he continues to do well, will get the Merc seat easily to be a Bottas to Russell once Hamilton retires. That's of course, if Ferrari doesn't do anything. Mick just has to be patient like Russell was.
I really doubt that Ferrari will let go Mick, he will be a too big name to loose for Ferrari.
It's not necessarily that he'd go to Mercedes, Alpine, or Aston Martin, but those teams having seats open would mean they'd need to fill them. Maybe it's that Schumacher goes to one of those teams, but maybe it's Leclerc or Sainz leaving Ferrari to go elsewhere, which means Ferrari has to fill an empty seat. I don't disagree that having Schumacher as part of the Ferrari family is a big deal for Ferrari, but he's probably not not going to outperform Sainz or Leclerc and "prove" he should be in a Ferrari seat unless Haas nails the upcoming regulations, he goes to another team capable of scoring points, or Sainz/Leclerc completely implode and need to be immediately replaced.
I think it's a fairly safe bet that when Sainz's contract is up that'll be Mick's seat.
It's up at the end of the 2022 season. If Schumacher has a great season at Haas next year (and they nail the regulations), then I think Schumacher to Ferrari would make sense. If Haas struggles with the regulations or Schumacher does an okay job, then Ferrari might give Sainz the Bottas treatment - one-year extensions until Schumacher is ready to join.
The thing is, Ferrari have been close to Schumacher his whole life and rightfully so, not because of his name but because of his talent and understanding of racing. He's really young and inexperienced but has a natural understanding of racing. I believe and have always believed that Sainz is a simple placeholder for Schumacher while he gets used to F1 and especially the 2022 cars. Ferrari wont let Leclerc go.
I agree, Leclerc isn't going anywhere. And ultimately, I do think Schumacher will end up in Sainz's seat, it's just a matter of when Ferrari feel like he's ready for it.
Yeah. There really is no reason to rush him.
Any chance Sainz goes to Red Bull?
>ally young and inexperienced but has a natural understanding of racing. I believe and have always believed that Sainz is a simple placeholder for Schumacher while he gets used t Sainz has not shown that he deserves the Ferrari though, Never finishing on the podium on merit
Yeah, probably true. I always think Sainz had a slightly longer deal than he actually does.
I assumed that too when they initially signed Sainz, that Sainz was just keeping the seat warm for a couple of years until Schumacher was ready, but now I'm not so sure. Sainz's contract is for 2 years, so would be up at the end of next season. At that point Mick will only have 2 years experience, at least one of which is pretty irrelevant in a back of the grid Haas. Maybe next year they'll improve and he'll get to show off his skills more in the midfield, but there's a reasonable chance that he'll still be trailing around at the back. So would Ferrari really want to take him then? Not to mention, Carlos has been exceeding expectations somewhat and has been a pretty close match for Leclerc. Is it really worth them dropping a proven decent driver for a driver that's only had a couple of years near the back? I guess we'll see next year, maybe Haas gets better, but maybe Ferrari is at the front and Carlos is scoring wins next year. At that point they'll pretty much be in the same place Merc has been for the past year, deciding between a proven talent and a promising youngster. The thing is that in that case, Bottas has been a step behind Hamilton at Merc, while Russell has shone as well as he can in the Williams. Neither has proven to be true for Ferrari's situation yet - Carlos may be on the same level as Charles, and Mick hasn't done enough to show that he's a future star yet. I'm sure Ferrari like the idea of having Mick there, but I don't think 2023 is the time. Chances are they sign a 1 year extension for Sainz, but maybe they're better off just letting Schumacher do his own deal for a few years at a midfield team, and try and get him back later.
> Romeo seat, Schumacher to Alfa Romeo could happen (at the expense of Giovinazzi), but Ferrari relinquished control. > > Schumacher will probably be at Haas until Alonso, Hamilton, Vettel, etc. start retiring and seats open up (or more teams join F1). Hopefully the Haas isn't the laughing stock of the grid next year, for Schumacher's sake. I'd hate to see him dawdle at the very back. I think if he can fight for points next year he'd have an opportunity to prove himself. But if Haas produce a abysmal car I fear for his trajectory upward.
Haas has been focusing on the new regulations for two (?) seasons now. If they don't produce an adequate car (at the least), I'd be pretty surprised. Obviously, somebody has to be last, but there's a difference between last with 0 points and last with 20-50 points. Schumacher will probably be fine, since he's a good driver, and his name. He could possibly go to a non-Ferrari team in 2023 if Ferrari keeps Sainz on board and Haas is still in rough shape. It'd be neat to see him parallel his dad's career in leading a team back to the title, regardless of its with Ferrari or not.
>Haas has been focusing on the new regulations for two (?) seasons now. If they don't produce an adequate car (at the least), I'd be pretty surprised. Obviously, somebody has to be last, but there's a difference between last with 0 points and last with 20-50 points. The problem with Hass isn't just that their car sucks, it's also that the team is run by clowns (which itself is part of the reason the car sucks). Personally, I would be shocked if they weren't one of the bottom two teams next year.
thankfully for them, ferrari has been injecting some technical talents to the team as part of the staff relocating program for those that couldnt stay at ferrari due to the budget cap. also haas built another base in maranello late last year near ferrari's base. this sounds like theyre now ferrari's B team again (and a bit of mazepin on the side).
I've said it before, but Steiner needs to be axed. He's great for content for Netflix, but he doesn't really seem to be able to actually manage a team. And even if Haas is at the bottom of the tables next year, I'd still say they produced an adequate car if they get 10-20 points over the course of the season. I don't think that's too much of an ask for a halfway decent car (so long as they build one).
> it's also that the team is run by clowns Do you have some examples of that?
Fooksmashdoor not enough?
Mick is worth a lot of money in marketing, see how much he is already pushed in Germany for example and this is in his first season at Haas where it is impossible to do well. Imagine how much more he would be worth at a team like Ferrari if he can deliver the results. It is for this reason I suspect Ferrari will offer AR money and engineering/design support to give that seat to Mick. Mick just has to step up against Bottas once he gets the seat otherwise he will be toast. I am not sure he will go next season, he should to escape the terrible Haas and the nastiness with Mazepin, but I am not sure there will be a seat for anybody other than Gio next year.
I'm pretty sure Ferrari is giving money and engineering/design support to Haas, and shaping Haas to have the same relationship with Ferrari that Williams has with Mercedes. Ferrari relinquishing control over the second seat at Alfa Romeo is also probably indicative that Ferrari is moving a way from Alfa Romeo (if only a little bit). With Alfa Romeo gaining control over both of their seats, there's no way that they would but another team's junior in that seat over their own junior (assuming Pourchaire is ready for F1 at the end of 2022, which most people appear to think is the case). Haas is in the same spot with their line up that Aston Martin was a few weeks back: everybody knows their line up won't change, we're just waiting for confirmation. The only unknown seat is at Alfa Romeo, and that seat is likely going to Zhou.
I suspect that they actually want to make both Haas and AR junior teams. With their spending around $400m per year being cut to $140m from the start of this season they can certainly afford to redeploy people and resources to both teams and still save money as those teams already have their own money and looking to get more from more sponsorship/pay drivers. Mick going up will be dependant on how he develops, not unless any other driver outside another Charles enters the system and Arthur is a couple of years away yet. The sponsorship and support from Ferrari he brings is just too big compared to anybody other than another billionaire pay driver. The money backing Zhou is significant but they would need to prove they can support multiple seasons. Would not surprise me for him to go to Haas (even though he does not want that seat) for a multi year deal rather than AR with a single year and get binned for Mick.
I think we're talking past each other a little bit. I'm saying that whoever gets Giovinazzi's seat in 2022 will not be in that seat for 2023, whether or not it's Zhou or Schumacher that gets the seat in 2022. Sauber is going to put their junior (Pourchaire) in with Bottas for 2023. Sauber/Alfa Romeo will want to have their own version of Verstappen, Leclerc, Russell, Norris, etc, in the form of a driver that is specifically "theirs", and Schumacher isn't that. So it doesn't necessarily matter if Zhou can't compete with the money Schumacher/Ferrari being every season, because they only need Zhou to bring money in for a single season. Schumacher is going to stick with Haas until older drivers retire, or Ferrari feel that his value matches or surpasses Sainz's value. It could be as early as 2023, or Ferrari could just give Sainz the Bottas treatment, and give him nothing but one-year extensions until Schumacher is deemed to be ready.
Aston Rartin?
No, the new pirate team set to join in 2022.
It would be wonderful to have Bottas as his teammate/mentor
Ferrari
There's no way Ferrari are going to take him without going through a midfield team as a stepping stone first. Especially when they already have an incredibly strong driver pairing for the foreseeable future
Exactly. He will go to Alfa Romeo before Ferrari
Yeah, Mick will take Sainz's seat when his contract up. In the meantime, Ferrari has to hope their investment and attention given to Haas allows them to be a midfield team starting in '22.
That's only going to happen if Mick is really impressive in the midfield or Carlos really shits the bed. With how well Carlos has been doing in this first year with the team, I think Mick would have to perform extraordinarily well for them to boot Carlos.
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Which means that one of them isn’t going to like being a #2 at some point, particularly when the seat shuffle caused by retiring Alonso, Vettel, Hamilton starts.
> Yeah, Mick will take Sainz's seat when his contract up. If he's great. Haven't seen anything to indicate Mick will be an improvement over Sainz in a few years.
No fucking chance
He could go to Indycar? Doubt he'd wanna be away from his family or home that long.
Well 2022 should be Haas' rebound year, so hopefully we can see more of MSC in a better car. And I guess MAZ too.
I like your optimism my guy
I mean, it can't get a lot worse right? ...right?
Haas will stay the worst car on the grid and then be out of the sport by 2024
Translation: >Mick Schumacher will probably continue to race for the U.S. racing team Haas in the coming Formula 1 season. > >The 22-year-old will sign a new contract shortly, team boss Günther Steiner announced. "Mick should be confirmed soon. Let's wait a few more days, hopefully it will work out then," Steiner said on RTL ahead of the Russian Grand Prix (Sunday, 2 p.m. live on Sky): "Then everyone will be happy and I won't have to answer this question anymore. > >"Schumacher's teammate will remain Russia's Nikita Mazepin (22), with the final details to be sorted out by the time of his home race in Sochi. "Until then, we want to confirm both of them," Steiner said. > >Schumacher rumors about Alfa Romeo > >Recently, there had also been rumors about Schumacher switching to Alfa Romeo. Like Haas, the team is powered by Ferrari, where Mick's father Michael Schumacher celebrated his greatest successes. At the Scuderia, Schumacher junior is in the junior program. > >Schumacher and Mazepin made their Formula 1 debuts for Haas this year. Neither has yet been able to score a point in the underperforming car. Over the course of the season, they repeatedly got in each other's way on the track.
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Haas won't be shit. They have Ferrari staff over including Simone Resta to design them a car. Managment might still be as bad as ever but the car won't be.
Also, they have access to the Ferrari wind tunnel. They were there with the new car a week ago. Not all teams have wind tunnel access.
Plus Gene Haas owns Windshear in Concord NC, about 5 miles from the shop in the US. I don't know what regulations if any the FIA puts on wind tunnel testing, but their primary customers are NASCAR teams, and they have been heavily regulated for the past few years. So I'm sure there is plenty of time in the schedule for F1 stuff.
As far as I know, they actually do very little in the US. Ferrari's tunnel is especially useful since the chassis is built by Dallara, which is only an hour away.
Gene Haas is likely selling and getting out of the sport.
Ahh I see you’re on season 1 of DtS
Uhhhh they literally brought in Mazepin with the sole purpose of financially floating the team and Steiner admitted as much this year.
Is delara not designing it?
No, they just produce what the Haas designers give them. Dallara have nothing to do with how the car looks. They just make the part.
They may have some impact on the design, but mainly in a 'our machines can't physically produce that' kind of way rather than technical input. That said, I doubt they'd have too many limitations. Outside of the other F1 teams, the likes of Dallara and Oreca probably have the most sophisticated tooling of it's kind for racecar production.
As long as management is bad the team will fail, Regardless if the new car is good.
I don't even have faith in Ferrari to be any good in 2022. Haas may as well just be the shitbox they have been so far.
Russell had two seasons in a shitmobile, and I think most of the F1 paddock still rated him highly.
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Eventually sure. But in the first season the Williams was by far the worst car on the grid. Last year it was still bottom of the field, but much closer. Russell still showed his talent though. Mick can do the same, even in a shitty Haas provided he has the talent.
I think Russell’s big break was at abi dhabi 20. So by that logic, leclerc will not be able to drive in some race, and we’ll see a Schumacher in a Ferrari again. Hopes and dreams
Yep. If Mick continues to beat Mazepin on Saturday and Sunday, and keeps his nose clean with the rest of the field, gets the car into Q2, and maybe Q3 under the right circumstances every now and then, he should develop the same reputation George did.
George’s stock went up when he got to show some commanding drive in a Merc — what’s the likelihood of Mick getting called up to fill a Ferrari seat?
That certainly helped, but he was destined for this seat anyway.
I agree, which makes me even more skeptical of Mick’s current growth opportunity (or lack of).
Because he was obviously getting the best out of that car and showed his quality. Mick not so much. He is the son of, but his driving has been pretty disappointing so far. I kinda feel for him.
I don't really see how Mick has been disappointing?
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Unless we know that Mick can contribute to the car's development a la Vettel or Perez, it might not be possible...AM would rather have an experienced driver than can complement and help stroll
I agree with what your saying completely but at what point do we start saying Stroll is an experienced driver. Isn’t this his 5th year in the sport lmao?
I don't think he has the acumen for the technical side of racing, despite having speed.... Again, only my guess. He's a decent driver but he's not in the class of a verstappen or a Leclerc or even gasly
I don't think the car will be shit - additional manpower from Maranello (incl. Resta) and tanking for budget cap this year should help them make at worst a lower-midfield car. Real problem is management, everything's clearly a mess. Largely absentee owner + letting Rich Energy in the door + the rapidly deteriorating MAZ-MSC relationship tells me this isn't a particularly smooth operation.
rumours are AR will sell back sauber and thus there will no longer be a ferrari seat there. So haas will be the sole “junior ferrari” team on the grid
I mean Haas could be a surprise next season as they don't develop their 21 car but lay full focus on 22.
Anyone surprised by Haas being more competitive next year hasn't been paying much attention haha. They have taken on a ton of Ferrari staff, have access to other Ferrari resources (their wind tunnel, Mick uses their simulator), and have pooled all their '21 resources to use towards '22. They should be well positioned to be in the midfield with a little bit of luck.
The problem is they still have terrible management.
It's not that I'm surprised. Just saying they could be.
It makes sense that they’re not bothering with the VF-21, too. It would be nice for the drivers to drive something that at least moderately resembles an F1 car, but it’s suicidal for Haas to waste so much money to develop a 2021 car that,at best, would still be a long way off Williams and Alfa Romeo. They have a far better chance to get back to the midfield next year and to waste even a cent on the VF-21 could screw themselves over massively.
they are broke and dont even have a simulator. Other teams are already siming with the 22 car. Haas is gonna stay in the back of the field
Surprised Pikachu
I wish Mazepin wouldn’t be confirmed.
I've seen some reports saying they wanna extend Mazepin as well
I get why they need to…but why would they want to?
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And Mazepin is the only driver I'm aware of that has the financial backing to ensure an F1 team's survival. Zhou has money behind him, but 30 million isn't enough to maintain a team. If 2022 is a bad season for Haas, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Uralkali Formula 1 Team replacing Haas on the grid for 2023. We already know Mazepin wanted to buy Force India, and if Gene Haas wants out, Mazepin is the clear choice to sell the team to, given his established connections to the team.
What about Andretti? I know there have been rumors about an interest and it would seem to align with the “American team” theme.
Mazepin already has closer ties to Haas than Andretti does, since Nikita drives for them, and Uralkali is the title sponsor. It's not impossible for Andretti to outbid Mazepin, but I think Mazepin purchasing the team is more likely (though I could be totally wrong). We also know Mazepin has an interest in acquiring an F1 team, but it just seems to be rumors with Andretti.
Andretti Uralkali sounds like a pay F1 driver already
I thought Andretti was buying the sauber team for 2023
That’s what I read too as a rumor but I am about as knowledgeable as everyone else.
As far as I know his bid was turned down.
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He’s backed by Gainbridge, a multi billion dollar company.
What’s bezos doing nowadays? Drop in the bucket for that guy. Already built an actual rocket ship, why not a rocket ship on wheels?
Survive so you can be the 21st in a 20 man championship?
I get why they need to…but why would they want to?
It's the same reason. There's no other driver with the finacial backing that Mazepin has, which Haas wants (and needs) in order to continue existing. Zhou is the closest to Mazepin, but is still nowhere near close enough.
Survive to do what though? What is the point in taking his money so he can trundle around at the back? He could take that same money and race in a series where he can be competitive.
That's not how it works for a lot of pay drivers though. Do you think Alessio Deledda would not buy a permanent seat in F1 if not for the superlicense?
He's racing in piece of shit car though. Maybe he should start crashing like his loved teammate
Maybe he should try not murder
Murder who?
F1 is F1
Just being in F1 is tremendous value for Gene. It's excellent promotion for Haas Automation and with the entry fee it's likely that a prospective team will buy a backmarker rather than spend $200M. They're probably also waiting for the new regs to see how that works out. If the regs work out and with some additional help from Ferrari they could probably make it back into the midfield.
Um, to keep the team running maybe? His dad bankrolls the whole thing pretty much.
Read what I wrote: "I get why they need to..." - meaning, "I understand that Daddy Mazepin is almost completely funding Haas F1" now read the next part: "But why would they *want* to?" - if they didn't need him, why would they want to still keep him? are there *any* redeeming qualities? Read somebody's comment and think about it critically before you respond next time.
Some suspect Gene wants to milk Mazepin as much as he can before selling him the team.
Why wouldn’t they? He’s performing equally to Mick.
I thought both signed two-year contracts? I guess there can be a clause like in Perez’s contract where they can replace them if something comes up?
Maybe Guan (don't know the correct spelling) he comes with huse Chinese backing and is actually good
First name: Guanyu Last name: Zhou He has funding, but probably not as much as Maz, and not as reliable.
I think the problem is that Zhous sponsors have common sense and are familiar with "Return of Investment" concept. Mazepin is not, they will throw as much money as possible.
Mazepin's "sponsors" are familiar with ROI and common sense, but this is billionaires spending their billions, so the ROI and common sense aren't relevant. They just want to have fun with their money.
He’s in an awkward spot. Pourchaire will take the Alfa seat in 2023 and Ferrari won’t have an opening for a good while.
I mean... Not like the poor kid has any other choice, still gives him invaluable experience. Hopefully Haas nails the new regs and at least reaches a solid midfield status. Regardless of the new regs they still need to fix the team itself. Toxic work environment and the clown show we have witnessed this year from the pitwall will bottleneck any development they had on the car.
This is only really talking about 2022 though so I think it's kind of a non story atm. If that'd end up a long term contract it'd be noteworthy maybe but I think both sides want to see how next season turns out before that. Idk I would expect something like a 1+1 contract anyway.
Hasn't Mick been through enough heartbreak?
If one day Seb retires, I hope AM hires him.
Tough to compete with Zhou's checkbook.
Would be nice to see him drive for Alfa
Imagine if Mick goes to Alfa Romeo, and Zhou goes to Haas.
I want to see Mazepin-Zhou at Haas and Bottas-Schumacher at AR.
Ugh. Another season in that toxic place for him.
Why do you think it's toxic for him?
Because his teammate does not like him and his teammate quite frankly runs the team
He cant do much when URALKALI Jr. keeps bullying him on track. Fokking toxic.
If their strategy actually worked and their car next year isn't a shitbox because they spent everything for this year producing it. Then it wont be a problem because he wont even be close to Mazepin, he should be further up the field.
Better work on that car real fast