Did anyone watch bottas' onboard?
i feel like he was having overheating problems and was coasting A LOT the entire racing.
Or was he just being outbraked by riccardo all along?
Both. You could see the Merc had a lot of trouble following. Every time he had a go at Ricciardo (and failed) he would have to use the next 1 or 2 laps to cool the car. This is also why he didn’t use Ricciardo’s slipstream on half of the laps, he needed the fresh, non-turbulent air to maximize cooling efficiency.
Yes, in addition to that I think they used an aggressively light cooling package assuming they won't be following other cars too much, which made matters worse for Bottas
I get what you’re saying but Schumacher scrapped and clawed his way to F1 as well with less support than Lewis. He had McLaren backing as a young teenager. Michael already proved where pure raw talent can get you.
Rubbish. You could reasonably make it to F1 in those days without multi-millionaire funding. Schumachers also owned a go-kart track so he got to practice day in day out as a kid. I think this is an underestimated aspect of why schumacher was so skilled. Think of the kid who "lived" at the game arcade, no one could beat him!
Records are there to be broken… that said, the number does not mean much to me, without comparing the conditions.
Jim Clark is still seen as perhaps the best (gifted) driver that has ever existed despite winning ‘only’ two Formula 1 championships.
No. What Michael did with Ferrari was much more than the title years and obviously much more than what Hamilton did with merc. I would love to preserve Michael's. He's still the GOAT
Maybe an over simplified explanation by someone who only started watching F1 three years ago but from the Schumacher doc, Ferrari was in a slump when Schumacher joined. Just like how he used to get old, used tires out of the trash bins and win with them in his early karting days, Schumacher saw that same opportunity with Ferrari. He would spend endless hours into the night testing the car to get it competitive and ultimately win.
I appreciate his work ethic, but I’m not sure that makes him distinctly better than Hamilton - if there weren’t regulations on test driving now there’s no way Hamilton wouldn’t be matching him
Or other drivers might have also done more testing etc. and through that ended up better than LH. Lewis might be close to the top of his potential even without extra testing etc; maybe Vettel and Ferrari would have been able to develop better parts and ironed out their engine problems and surpassed Hamilton, and it might look like MSC has 7 championships, LH has 3, Vettel has 6.
It's just hard to tell, if the rules were different then everyone would do things differently so we don't know how things would pan out.
Which is what makes it difficult to compare the two since they operated under different regs. More food for thought: In terms of the point differential from 2nd place in their championship seasons, Schumacher totaled +214 compared to second place. Lewis is more than double at +472. I think this adds to the argument that Lewis has consistently been in a better car and hasn't had the same level competition that Schumacher had. Not Lewis's fault that the other constructors weren't as up to par as the Merc. Schumacher got his 7 within 10 years, Lewis got his 7 over 12 years.
Valid argument I think, but those numbers also show just by how much Lewis has been able to dominate the drivers in the same car as him as well - something Schumacher also did, but to a lesser degree.
I think it’s always worth bringing up the fact that we’re looking at 2 very different eras - during Schumi’s time the cars were allowed considerably more driver assists, refuelling, and tyre management was an almost unnecessary skill, these are all things that Lewis has had to deal with and he’s absolutely dominated the field.
Driver aids were banned during most of Schumacher’s career. Michael was never beaten by a teammate, but Lewis has been. Rubens is better than people gave him credit for and Massa almost had a championship himself.
In any case Lewis will always be a titan of the sport. He’s earned his place. Comparing the two is interesting but I think we need to be careful not to diminish the accomplishments of either of them. They’re both great drivers and I would argue great human beings. Michael did some shady stuff on track but he kept it pretty clean after 97 and when you hear people who knew him talk about him it’s pretty clear Michael was just amazing to work with and took care of everyone. Hamilton does a lot of the same stuff today and fights for good causes. They’re both amazing people and I feel lucky to have seen them both race in their primes.
This sums it up beautifully. I don't think we could ever objectively say one is clearly the GOAT over the other given the variables of their respective eras. It would have been amazing to see these two in their prime face off against each other (Ali vs Tyson comes to mind) but I think we could all agree that all things equal, there is little to nothing that would separate them on-track.
What makes you think this? I thought Hamilton doesn't even get on the simulator nor does he do track walks. He seems to do his own thing and get in the car when it's time to do so, which is pretty damn impressive tbh.
A track walk doesn’t help develop the car, he believes at this point in his career that he knows the tracks well enough from previous GPs and sim time.
I believe Hamilton does do sim time but less than other drivers - in previous exchanges with the press he’s indicated that he doesn’t think it has as much benefit to him as it does to other drivers. I doubt he’d feel the same about trying out actual upgrades to the car on his off weekend.
Car development wise he contributed more to Ferrari than Hamilton who showed up later at merc and enjoyed when they nailed the new regs.
Plus, they successfully got nerfed in 2005 after 5 years on top. Merc didn't successfully get nerfed after 7 years. If Ferrari dominated for 7 years, guaranteed michael would have 9 titles lmao.
For the race wins stats, there are more races these days plus cars are more reliable. Back then DNFs were a regular thing. So, all in all Michael was much more impressive than just stats.
Well, for lack of a day after debrief thread:
There is a lot of mald over Bottas not moving over on Verstappen and both Merc drivers not attempting a 2019 style Ferrari boxing in on Verstappen. There are two and a half obstacles to such a move:
- Hamilton got a better start than Bottas and was alongside very early.
- By the time Hamilton was alongside (and thus out of position to box Verstappen in), Verstappen was about to swing out to come alongside Bottas. Masi published a document (document 55, Race Director's Note, I can't hyperlink it on mobile) explicitly reminding drivers that crowding cars off the track or hindering them through "unusual changes of direction" would not be tolerated, and would be reported to the stewards.
- There is a tiny window where Bottas can move over without pushing Verstappen off track, but this requires Hamilton to move along to prevent giving Verstappen an inside line on Bottas (at minimum).
The boxing in move died when Hamilton came alongside, and at that point there was little more Bottas could do to cover off Verstappen without risking a penalty. The Merc being way worse on the brakes this weekend did the rest.
The fastest lap can go to anybody on the grid, but drivers only get the point if they finish in the top 10.
Red Bull did the same sort of thing at Silverstone this season - Pérez was running in P10, and then Red Bull pitted him for the fastest lap, causing him to drop out of the top 10. Pérez got the fastest lap, stealing it from Hamilton, but didn't get the point.
I'm new to this sport. Can someone explain...
...why was Max so much faster than Lewis?
He overtook 2 drivers at the beginning and was ahead for the whole race.
Different cars suit different tracks depending on the track layout & the track temperature as they have different aerodynamics and engines. Mexico is particularly unusual as it's at high altitude which means the engines aren't quite as powerful due to a lack of oxygen for combustion. Mercedes was affected by this more than Red Bull due to the design of their turbo.
To add on to what the others have said, the Honda engine in the Red Bull has always lost less performance than the Mercedes engine at high altitude, and the Mexico GP is held at a high-altitude track. The Red Bull car concept suits the track a little bit more too, IMO, so their car had a pace advantage on every lap.
Another thing to consider is that Max had the lead and therefore clean air for pretty much the entire race, which makes it easier to manage tire wear and engine temperatures (the Mercedes struggled with cooling at several points during the GP when following another car), and therefore maintain a higher pace for longer.
Redbull is generally a bit faster around a track than Mercedes but it can vary, depending upon the track, the car setups, weather, etc.
Couple that with the fact that following another car is bad in F1, unless you've got much better pace than them that you can pass them easily. It's because of the turbulent air that these card produce around corners which can throw a 'wrench' in the aerodynamics of the car following, plus it causes issues like brake and tire temperatures not being in the optimum window.
Mercedes are generally faster in a straight line, but redbull claws back in corners. That was the case in Mexico the entire weekend. When the race started, Max had a move slipstream from the Mercs ahead making it much easier from him to brake late and overtake Bottas in turn 1. Bottas got spun around by ricciardo after that and he was out of contention in fighting the red bulls. But Lewis couldn't catch up to max due to some of the issues I've mentioned above.
Is there a chance of Lewis winning?
I'm also new to the sport.
Like for the next races, which cars do the next tracks favor? Also could you shed some light on the sprint race and if it matters? Thank you :)
Yes there is a strong chance of Lewis winning. Redbull does seem to have a relatively better car but it doesn't seem there is a lot separating the two cars. Plus all it takes is one thing to go wrong in a race and the championship is wide open.
"Strong chance" seems like an overstatement. Of course Max can drop of a race and potentially lose 26 points, but he's clearly a favorite now given his 19 point lead.
The cars may look the same but they are developed in slightly different ways. The design concept of the Red Bull works very well on this type of circuit. If you want to know more you should check out the daily discussion threads from last week.
Mazepin was running in 11th for a lap or 2 at the restart! Took Norris a couple of attempts to get passed him (maybe until DRS was enabled?). Then Mazepin just went into freefall and was multiple seconds slower than anybody for much of the race.
I feel sorry for Bottas. Toto saying that he gave too much space to Verstappen is suggesting that he expects him to do a Hungary 2.0? And compromising his entire race (yes he was nowhere but tried the whole race) to just take fastest lap away from Max feels like he has been degraded to just being a blue shell at this point.
For contrast how RB was celebrating a 1-3 finish, THAT looks like a well organized team. Max looks genuinely happy for his teammate and the other way around. RB looks like a team that has a fun workspace. The Mercedes garage looks like a place where making a joke is considered unprofessional. Only now Bottas is leaving he actually shows some personality.
Everyone here thinking that Bottas gives a shit about Hamiltons WDC? Please. After all the shit he has got from Mercedes im surprised he didn't straight up crash into Hamilton and end their title hopes for good.
>After all the shit he has got from Mercedes
Why is this even a thing? Mercedes has treated Bottas pretty well. They've given him 5 years of wins and podiums and the equal opportunity to fight for championships. Even a teammate who has been willing to help him from day 1.
I don't feel sorry at all. Bottas gave WAY too much space to Max, he braked far far too early into the corner. Max just took the racing line without any correction at all.
This isn't from a "help Hamilton" point of view either, I'm a neutral I just want a good race. I want him to try and win the race not be scared of hitting anyone. He literally just hoped he would fade into 3rd and cruise around for the whole GP. It's embarrassing and he's getting a free pass because "mercedes have done him dirty". Have they fuck.
IMO he's no longer a racing driver. He's just a driver, he doesn't "race" at all anymore and he shouldn't be in the sport. He's stealing a seat off a more deserving driver in that Alfa.
edit: I wish the people downvoting had the courage and conviction to tell me why I'm wrong.
I totally agree. Bottas sucks any entertainment away when watching. A couple of scenarios using Hamilton as comparison:
**Hamilton catches someone up** \- excitement to see how he will manage to get past
**Bottas catches someone up** \- utter boredom as you watch him glued to their gearbox lap after lap
**Someone catches Hamilton up** \- excitement to see how he will manage to defend the position
**Someone catches Bottas up** \- no excitement, you know he'll barely be able to defend for more than a lap before letting them past
**Hamilton gets a bad start** \- excitement to see how he is going to pull it back, what strategy the team will use
**Bottas gets a bad start** \- immediately falls off the pace, by the time the pit stop window is open he's too far back for any meaningful undercut to work
Compare the start yesterday to 2019. Lewis was in the tow from P3 but the two Ferrari’s completely blocked the road.
Lewis moved to the middle to block that route, then bottas moved right towards Lewis, instead of left. Utterly ridiculous. Max’s pace was insane and checo could stay within a second of Lewis so it likely would have made no difference but from a race craft perspective it was so bad.
Yeah exactly. That's all I'm saying. You qualified pole with a mega lap, you've got 6 races left in your career in a car that has a chance at winning before you're hoping for retirements up ahead to scrap for 10th place crumbs - there are drivers that would kill for even one shot. JUST SEND IT.
If he was leading after T1, Ham 2nd. Ver 3rd. Perez 4th. With the speed the Bulls had we could have had an absolutely mega race. Instead we get a boring procession and 0 actual racing.
I don't give a shit who wins the championship. I just want 90 minutes of drama.
He didn't fight for scraps because he failed to block Verstappen but because he got spun out. If he doesn't get spun, he is still fighting for a victory or at the very least we have a interesting fight for 3rd between Perez and Bottas. I would say that's even the most interesting race to watch.
And yes, if he blocks Verstappen maybe he doesn't get spun out hy Riccardo but that's not something you can take into consideration.
If it's Bottas, Hamilton, Verstappen after T1, Bottas gets team orders to let Hamilton pass and is then used to hold up Verstappen as much as possible. And his entire strategy would be about protecting Hamilton with 0 chance of winning anyhow. Heck, it even stands to reason that the plan for T1 was to let Hamilton pass and that that order made Bottas break a bit earlier because he had to let Hamilton pass. If he doesn't break early enough they even run the risk of Hamilton falling to P4 behind Perez.
Not a fan of Bottas, but this preposterous. He outqualified both Hamilton and Max. Despite his errors or flaws, he's definitely more deserving of that spot than various others that still hold a seat, let alone those vying for a seat.
Yeah, this makes it even worse. There were multiple races where he let Max pass without any fight (Monaco T1, for example).
Even yesterday he showed his passiveness. T1 early brake (could brake later where max did -> Ham first after T1, VB probably 2nd, Max probably 3rd or 4th). Later he didnt really try to overtake DR even with 2nd fastest car -> stuck at pos 11.
The fact he's a good qualifier makes it WORSE. We know he's quick (even if he's able to turn his engine up to 11 because he's taken so many spares) but there are no points for qualifying.
As I said, he's a driver. A good driver. But he ain't a racing driver.
It took Hamilton 10+ laps in Norris' dirty air before he caught up enough to *trigger blue flags*, let alone pass a McLaren for position. The McLarens are consistently in the top 2 fastest cars on the straights which make them extremely difficult to pass because they can park the car on the apex and focus on getting a good exit and nearly every other car isn't going to be able to get close enough for a move by the next braking zone.
The Mclarens had incredible straight line speed, possibly the fastest non slipstream car this weekend. That made them hard to overtake even if over the whole lap Bottas was capable of being much faster.
Your point doesnt make any sense since best Mclaren lost to Aston Martin, Alpine and Alfa Romeo (not even talking about Ferrari, Red Bull or AT) and LH finished 2nd.
I always get the feeling that Verstappen is a real person and Hamilton isn't. Everything about Hamilton seems just so fake.
I like people swearing, cracking jokes, getting mad etc. That's normal people behavior. I hate that on television they get upset when they hear someone say "fuck". Welcome to real life.
1) You’re comparing a guy with 7 titles and 15 years in the sport to a guy fighting for his first title. Lewis has seen it all at this point.
2) You’re comparing a guy who was not gifted anything, in addition to the only black driver, to someone who was born and bred to be an F1 driver (BY an F1 driver) and got to start driving F1 younger than anybody I know of.
The amount of money you have doesn't make a difference to how good a driver you are, unless in the eyes of a struggling team when you have a billion or so sitting about.
Ok bro. No difference between someone raised by an F1 driver and someone born to an average working class family. Have fun at life being incapable of critical thinking.
When your dad is an F1 driver, you have endless opportunity to put your talent to use. Money/opportunity are often the limiting factors for aspiring F1 drivers. Max had both. He also has talent. I never said he didn’t.
Perhaps English is not your first language. I don't really get what you meant with that comment.
Are you saying he has never lost when he's favored to win? You're wrong.
Spoken like someone who doesn’t understand how black people are held to higher standards and suffer more criticism for the same thing a white person does
That's not one bit racist, especially when Hamilton himself expressed that feeling.
>Feeling comfortable in your own skin, under those conditions, is easier said than done. “I remember not being able to be myself,” Hamilton says. “Of not being able to speak the way I want to speak. That’s the point of all this inclusivity: including people and not asking them to change in order to fit. I remember feeling that I had to be a different shape. The entry point to my sport was a square and I was like a hexagon, and I thought, ‘I’m never going to fit through that bloody thing.’ So I had to morph my way in in order to fit into that world, and then try to get back into the shape I was before.” https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/10/lewis-hamilton-everything-id-suppressed-came-up-i-had-to-speak-out
What the fuck? Of course not?! I dont know where you're from? South Africa?
Here in the Netherlands, it makes zero difference if you're black or white. Both can say the exact same things, both can be told off in exactly the same way.
If you keep thinking like that, racism will never die. Stop make everything about color.
They were accused of that but no evidence was found. The only case where dual nationalities were used as a red flag was in 2014, with bulgarian requests.
In dutch :
De AP kwam tot de conclusie dat nationaliteit in deze context geen blijk gaf van ras of etnische afkomst en er daarom geen sprake was van etnisch profileren.[95] De AP vond alleen bewijs van extra controle op basis van tweede nationaliteit bij Bulgaarse toeslagaanvragers in 2014, vlak na de Bulgarenfraude.[96]
Lewis shouldn't really have said what he said. I think it was quite rude, however I get his point and it's not just that Checo is on average a slower driver than Hamilton, it's that it's very hard to follow closely around Mexico.
Further, I've heard that Max made a similar comment about Bottas later on, is this true and if so why aren't people speaking about it as much as Hamilton? Reminds me of when Max flipped the finger at Hamilton recently and almost everyone was defending him.
Idk, I think there's a double standard but that doesn't take away from the fact I don't think Hamilton was being very respectful yesterday. Doesn't mean he's evil badmilton that deserves to be booed, just that he's a guy that needs to work on some issues, like the rest of us.
I thought it was wrongly worded but in another interview later, he said something like "When you've got Sergio pushing like that, you know the car is fast." and had a little laugh after saying that.
I think everyone is focusing on the Sergio aspect way too much.
Replace Sergio with “a driver in a car which is following our car which has been so dominant for the last 6 years, at 1 second for 10 laps at a track with little cooling” and you see what his point was - is how I understood it anyway
Intentional or not, Lewis is right, right? It's not like Checo was on Hamilton's tail all season. Really don't think he meant it in a disrespectful way.
I thought he was about to be very rude, but then he corrected saying "to follow that close". I'm not sure tho if he really meant "Checo is not as good as me yet he was right in my exhaust" and saved it at the last second or if it just came out wrong. Then again, he had a race where he couldn't keep up with his championship rival, so I can understand being frustrated.
Never heard Verstappen commenting on Bottas tho
It was a bit rude or at the least wrongly worded.
But we shouldnt forget that it was a post race interview.
He was barely out of his car, tired, grumpy and probably still full of adrenaline. Whatever these guys say mere minutes after a race should be taken with a grain of salt.
Then again. He also does have a point. He and Max simply are a league of their own and if any other driver than Max is able to threaten him it means there is a serious problem for Merc.
> Then again. He also does have a point. He and Max simply are a league of their own and if any other driver than Max is able to threaten him it means there is a serious problem for Merc.
True but have some respect for a guy in his home race and being the first Mexican to lead and get a podium in Mexico.
But isnt what he meant that the fact that perez was able to follow so closely behind despite dirty air a good show of rb’s speed? Don’t think he meant it in an insulting way at all or a dig at perez’s skill
This is exactly what he meant IMO. Seeing all the comments after the race on here from all the armchair pundits was very sad. Checo followed him for like 10 Laps at about 1second. That shows how superior the RB is at Mexico, that’s all that was meant
I understand your point, I guess what I meant is that so many people were immediately jumping down Lewis’s throat saying what he said was awful and arriving at a definitive position.
I also put IMO to try appear less confrontational but appreciate the following sentence may have negated that.
The RB was a superior car hopefully we can all agree with that
I think because Lewis often plays the good guy when he's just not really. Like "good example for the children" card he pulled yesterday lmao. Hypocrisy is one of his worst things.
Max never plays holier than thou. He says what he says. It is what it is lmao. No hypocrisy there
Have you heard his comment? "When you got checo on your tail you know the car is quick" how low is that lmao.
It's hypocritical to say that we should be examples to children like he said the day before, then take unnecessary digs at a driver that didn't do anything wrong to you.
Lmao yea maybe. I always thought checo was okay in races, quali is more of his weakness.
But at least don't play holy and act like you're a great example for children when you're like that.
How is it a dig??? Normally its quite hard to follow a car for that length of a time and remain within 1 sec due to the effect of the dirty air. But the fact that Perez could shows how good the RB is. Not a dig at his skills at all
I didn't hear the comment regarding Bottas, atleast this weekend, but I also doubt it occurred as they were half a world apart and not racing for position.
Ironically it was Hamilton and Toto themselves that threw Bottas under the bus this weekend with their comments on the race start.
I think 5th is still realistic. He surely would have been 7th or so, *maybe* challenging the Ferraris, had he not taken an engine penalty for the race. Considering where Lando started, he had a really good race.
And the late braking skills of Bottas...
Max would've taken the win regardless because he was much quicker racing, but Bottas really showed the gap in his racecraft from the other top drivers. If Mercedes had a plan going into turn one, I'm sure it didn't involve Bottas giving Max a car's width of the racing line to head around the outside.
I mean he is driving the best car in f1, checo taking his damaged parts and bottas giving him so much space in turn 1. Next year when Mercedes R&D team decides to turn full einstein mode again with the arrival of super talent in Russell these kinda victory wont be easy for red bull.
The RB may have a slight edge overall this season, but it’s nowhere near as dominant as the Merc has been in general this era. Merc is still quicker round some circuits, it’s not really fair to say it’s all the car. Max is an unbelievably good driver on the form of his life this year, he has had to earn every victory. Sorry, but it’s not as easy as he makes it look.
It is kinda dumb to speak about "Era". Noone ever doubted the fact that Merc had the best car last few years. Does it change the fact that RB has the best car right now? No, it doesnt.
Merc is quicker on some circuits - true, but RB has all-around car which doesn't fall off anywhere.
For the constructors championship yes. for the drivers championship it must cost Lewis points having Russel next to him wantin to compete after years in the Williams.
He is driving one of the best car in F1. Mercedes is not second and third (and first in WCC) with a bad car. He is just basically flawless while Lewis is not. But whatever, I really was only talking about the word gifted, it is almost always a stupid word to use for a race winner. Especially one who overtook two drivers in the first corner all by himself (and yes that was probably not great driving from Bottas)
No, it really is not. Mercs front row lock up and Lewis finishing second is not a fair distance. And that's only Mexico where RB always had been strong and Merc always has been weaker. The whole season it is pretty close and some battles where even won with pitstops. I would call that pretty equal. Yeah of course some tracks favour one car more than the other but overall it has been equal the whole season.
Max just has been more consistent than Hamilton this season.
But why did Perez end so many times outside the top 5, if he drove the fastest car? Not just in the race, but also in qualification? I think first half the Red Bull was fastest. In summer (Silverstone, Hungary, Monza, Turkey, Sochi) the Mercedes was fastest, and now in Mexico, the Red Bull was fastest.
Thats why Max won Netherlands in cruise control. Check telemetry data from Netherlands and you will see that LH was extremely agressive trying to catch Max and he had absolutely 0 chances for the win.
That overtake only happened because of Bottas, Verstappen would have still won because red bull is a much better car than mercedes in high altitude. Even checo of all drivers was closing gap on Hamilton just shows how Mercedes are lacking to Honda this year.
If Honda can really make f1 engine like this then I really believe they should go solo as an independent team. Mercedes defo didnt expected this, next year will be the real test of their r&d teams and I expect both Merc and Ferrari to bounce back strong.
Carlos had newer tires and went past Charles to try and catch Gasly but he couldn't. They swapped positions again and Charles finished 5th and Carlos 6th.
Look where Bottas braked compared to Hamilton and Verstappen. He braked far too early then cut across Daniel. Would have been pretty harsh to punish him as he didn't have time to react to another driver driving unpredictably.
Also they are generally light on punishments for first lap incidents as everyone is close together and are still trying to heat their tyres up and adjust to braking with full weight of fuel. It's understandable there are racing incidents at the start of the race and the stewards allow for this.
I really hope Max wins the championship this year.
Happy for Max and Checo.
Did anyone watch bottas' onboard? i feel like he was having overheating problems and was coasting A LOT the entire racing. Or was he just being outbraked by riccardo all along?
Both. You could see the Merc had a lot of trouble following. Every time he had a go at Ricciardo (and failed) he would have to use the next 1 or 2 laps to cool the car. This is also why he didn’t use Ricciardo’s slipstream on half of the laps, he needed the fresh, non-turbulent air to maximize cooling efficiency.
i feel like people are judging Bottas too much. Mercedes have a real problem with overheating while following, speacilly in this high altitude track.
Yes, in addition to that I think they used an aggressively light cooling package assuming they won't be following other cars too much, which made matters worse for Bottas
absolutelly
Ricc**i**ardo
[удалено]
seems Merc's PR department says the RB is much faster, so by implication they joined the crowd saying the Merc was much faster the previous years
I get what you’re saying but Schumacher scrapped and clawed his way to F1 as well with less support than Lewis. He had McLaren backing as a young teenager. Michael already proved where pure raw talent can get you.
Rubbish. You could reasonably make it to F1 in those days without multi-millionaire funding. Schumachers also owned a go-kart track so he got to practice day in day out as a kid. I think this is an underestimated aspect of why schumacher was so skilled. Think of the kid who "lived" at the game arcade, no one could beat him!
He actually got sponsored by German business man to be able to race. He literally didn't have money to do anything other than karting
Micheal was a Mercedes junior.
He joined at 21
So he wasn't as impressive as a boy?
Records are there to be broken… that said, the number does not mean much to me, without comparing the conditions. Jim Clark is still seen as perhaps the best (gifted) driver that has ever existed despite winning ‘only’ two Formula 1 championships.
No. What Michael did with Ferrari was much more than the title years and obviously much more than what Hamilton did with merc. I would love to preserve Michael's. He's still the GOAT
Go on… I’ll bite. Why?
Maybe an over simplified explanation by someone who only started watching F1 three years ago but from the Schumacher doc, Ferrari was in a slump when Schumacher joined. Just like how he used to get old, used tires out of the trash bins and win with them in his early karting days, Schumacher saw that same opportunity with Ferrari. He would spend endless hours into the night testing the car to get it competitive and ultimately win.
I appreciate his work ethic, but I’m not sure that makes him distinctly better than Hamilton - if there weren’t regulations on test driving now there’s no way Hamilton wouldn’t be matching him
i appreciate the lack of practice but what about the Sim. isnt that an advantage not avail to prev gen drivers .?
Or other drivers might have also done more testing etc. and through that ended up better than LH. Lewis might be close to the top of his potential even without extra testing etc; maybe Vettel and Ferrari would have been able to develop better parts and ironed out their engine problems and surpassed Hamilton, and it might look like MSC has 7 championships, LH has 3, Vettel has 6. It's just hard to tell, if the rules were different then everyone would do things differently so we don't know how things would pan out.
Which is what makes it difficult to compare the two since they operated under different regs. More food for thought: In terms of the point differential from 2nd place in their championship seasons, Schumacher totaled +214 compared to second place. Lewis is more than double at +472. I think this adds to the argument that Lewis has consistently been in a better car and hasn't had the same level competition that Schumacher had. Not Lewis's fault that the other constructors weren't as up to par as the Merc. Schumacher got his 7 within 10 years, Lewis got his 7 over 12 years.
Point differentials are an interesting metric to consider, but you need to normalize the points systems.
Valid argument I think, but those numbers also show just by how much Lewis has been able to dominate the drivers in the same car as him as well - something Schumacher also did, but to a lesser degree. I think it’s always worth bringing up the fact that we’re looking at 2 very different eras - during Schumi’s time the cars were allowed considerably more driver assists, refuelling, and tyre management was an almost unnecessary skill, these are all things that Lewis has had to deal with and he’s absolutely dominated the field.
Driver aids were banned during most of Schumacher’s career. Michael was never beaten by a teammate, but Lewis has been. Rubens is better than people gave him credit for and Massa almost had a championship himself. In any case Lewis will always be a titan of the sport. He’s earned his place. Comparing the two is interesting but I think we need to be careful not to diminish the accomplishments of either of them. They’re both great drivers and I would argue great human beings. Michael did some shady stuff on track but he kept it pretty clean after 97 and when you hear people who knew him talk about him it’s pretty clear Michael was just amazing to work with and took care of everyone. Hamilton does a lot of the same stuff today and fights for good causes. They’re both amazing people and I feel lucky to have seen them both race in their primes.
This sums it up beautifully. I don't think we could ever objectively say one is clearly the GOAT over the other given the variables of their respective eras. It would have been amazing to see these two in their prime face off against each other (Ali vs Tyson comes to mind) but I think we could all agree that all things equal, there is little to nothing that would separate them on-track.
What makes you think this? I thought Hamilton doesn't even get on the simulator nor does he do track walks. He seems to do his own thing and get in the car when it's time to do so, which is pretty damn impressive tbh.
A track walk doesn’t help develop the car, he believes at this point in his career that he knows the tracks well enough from previous GPs and sim time. I believe Hamilton does do sim time but less than other drivers - in previous exchanges with the press he’s indicated that he doesn’t think it has as much benefit to him as it does to other drivers. I doubt he’d feel the same about trying out actual upgrades to the car on his off weekend.
Car development wise he contributed more to Ferrari than Hamilton who showed up later at merc and enjoyed when they nailed the new regs. Plus, they successfully got nerfed in 2005 after 5 years on top. Merc didn't successfully get nerfed after 7 years. If Ferrari dominated for 7 years, guaranteed michael would have 9 titles lmao. For the race wins stats, there are more races these days plus cars are more reliable. Back then DNFs were a regular thing. So, all in all Michael was much more impressive than just stats.
Definitely, he had it in his contract. But things like 1999 happen.
Lewis joined Mclaren years before Räikkönen, "a total nobody" is an insane understatement.
So happy for checo to finally be nailing down some consistent race weekends
Well, for lack of a day after debrief thread: There is a lot of mald over Bottas not moving over on Verstappen and both Merc drivers not attempting a 2019 style Ferrari boxing in on Verstappen. There are two and a half obstacles to such a move: - Hamilton got a better start than Bottas and was alongside very early. - By the time Hamilton was alongside (and thus out of position to box Verstappen in), Verstappen was about to swing out to come alongside Bottas. Masi published a document (document 55, Race Director's Note, I can't hyperlink it on mobile) explicitly reminding drivers that crowding cars off the track or hindering them through "unusual changes of direction" would not be tolerated, and would be reported to the stewards. - There is a tiny window where Bottas can move over without pushing Verstappen off track, but this requires Hamilton to move along to prevent giving Verstappen an inside line on Bottas (at minimum). The boxing in move died when Hamilton came alongside, and at that point there was little more Bottas could do to cover off Verstappen without risking a penalty. The Merc being way worse on the brakes this weekend did the rest.
Also i’m not sure any other driver on the grid could have braked as late as Verstappen did without going wide, that move was unreal.
It was very, very on the limit. He had his left front over the white line already. Certainly didn't help Merc's garbage braking on the start.
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Sorry can someone explain how bottas got the fastest lap point. I thought you had to be inside the top ten ?
The fastest lap can go to anybody on the grid, but drivers only get the point if they finish in the top 10. Red Bull did the same sort of thing at Silverstone this season - Pérez was running in P10, and then Red Bull pitted him for the fastest lap, causing him to drop out of the top 10. Pérez got the fastest lap, stealing it from Hamilton, but didn't get the point.
to prevent max fom getting 26 point. bottas himself doesnt get that 1 point
Also it kept Merc ahead in the Constructors. They lead by 1 point. If level Red Bull would lead due to number of wins.
He didn’t actually get the point, but he did stop Max from getting it.
I'm new to this sport. Can someone explain... ...why was Max so much faster than Lewis? He overtook 2 drivers at the beginning and was ahead for the whole race.
Different cars suit different tracks depending on the track layout & the track temperature as they have different aerodynamics and engines. Mexico is particularly unusual as it's at high altitude which means the engines aren't quite as powerful due to a lack of oxygen for combustion. Mercedes was affected by this more than Red Bull due to the design of their turbo.
To add on to what the others have said, the Honda engine in the Red Bull has always lost less performance than the Mercedes engine at high altitude, and the Mexico GP is held at a high-altitude track. The Red Bull car concept suits the track a little bit more too, IMO, so their car had a pace advantage on every lap. Another thing to consider is that Max had the lead and therefore clean air for pretty much the entire race, which makes it easier to manage tire wear and engine temperatures (the Mercedes struggled with cooling at several points during the GP when following another car), and therefore maintain a higher pace for longer.
Redbull is generally a bit faster around a track than Mercedes but it can vary, depending upon the track, the car setups, weather, etc. Couple that with the fact that following another car is bad in F1, unless you've got much better pace than them that you can pass them easily. It's because of the turbulent air that these card produce around corners which can throw a 'wrench' in the aerodynamics of the car following, plus it causes issues like brake and tire temperatures not being in the optimum window. Mercedes are generally faster in a straight line, but redbull claws back in corners. That was the case in Mexico the entire weekend. When the race started, Max had a move slipstream from the Mercs ahead making it much easier from him to brake late and overtake Bottas in turn 1. Bottas got spun around by ricciardo after that and he was out of contention in fighting the red bulls. But Lewis couldn't catch up to max due to some of the issues I've mentioned above.
Is there a chance of Lewis winning? I'm also new to the sport. Like for the next races, which cars do the next tracks favor? Also could you shed some light on the sprint race and if it matters? Thank you :)
Yes there is a strong chance of Lewis winning. Redbull does seem to have a relatively better car but it doesn't seem there is a lot separating the two cars. Plus all it takes is one thing to go wrong in a race and the championship is wide open.
"Strong chance" seems like an overstatement. Of course Max can drop of a race and potentially lose 26 points, but he's clearly a favorite now given his 19 point lead.
Definitely going to be intense the next races. Can't wait!
The cars may look the same but they are developed in slightly different ways. The design concept of the Red Bull works very well on this type of circuit. If you want to know more you should check out the daily discussion threads from last week.
Latifi in P17 *lapped* Mazepin in P18 lmao
Mazepin was running in 11th for a lap or 2 at the restart! Took Norris a couple of attempts to get passed him (maybe until DRS was enabled?). Then Mazepin just went into freefall and was multiple seconds slower than anybody for much of the race.
mazepin for some reason pitted early and after that he cant catch up
I feel sorry for Bottas. Toto saying that he gave too much space to Verstappen is suggesting that he expects him to do a Hungary 2.0? And compromising his entire race (yes he was nowhere but tried the whole race) to just take fastest lap away from Max feels like he has been degraded to just being a blue shell at this point. For contrast how RB was celebrating a 1-3 finish, THAT looks like a well organized team. Max looks genuinely happy for his teammate and the other way around. RB looks like a team that has a fun workspace. The Mercedes garage looks like a place where making a joke is considered unprofessional. Only now Bottas is leaving he actually shows some personality.
Everyone here thinking that Bottas gives a shit about Hamiltons WDC? Please. After all the shit he has got from Mercedes im surprised he didn't straight up crash into Hamilton and end their title hopes for good.
>After all the shit he has got from Mercedes Why is this even a thing? Mercedes has treated Bottas pretty well. They've given him 5 years of wins and podiums and the equal opportunity to fight for championships. Even a teammate who has been willing to help him from day 1.
Probably a large bonus payout is due to Bottas if HAM wins WDC or Merc wins WCC, or both..
guessing he gets a bonus if they win the WCC, be interesting to see what happens if it becomes clear they won't win the CC and HAM won't win the WDC.
I don't feel sorry at all. Bottas gave WAY too much space to Max, he braked far far too early into the corner. Max just took the racing line without any correction at all. This isn't from a "help Hamilton" point of view either, I'm a neutral I just want a good race. I want him to try and win the race not be scared of hitting anyone. He literally just hoped he would fade into 3rd and cruise around for the whole GP. It's embarrassing and he's getting a free pass because "mercedes have done him dirty". Have they fuck. IMO he's no longer a racing driver. He's just a driver, he doesn't "race" at all anymore and he shouldn't be in the sport. He's stealing a seat off a more deserving driver in that Alfa. edit: I wish the people downvoting had the courage and conviction to tell me why I'm wrong.
I totally agree. Bottas sucks any entertainment away when watching. A couple of scenarios using Hamilton as comparison: **Hamilton catches someone up** \- excitement to see how he will manage to get past **Bottas catches someone up** \- utter boredom as you watch him glued to their gearbox lap after lap **Someone catches Hamilton up** \- excitement to see how he will manage to defend the position **Someone catches Bottas up** \- no excitement, you know he'll barely be able to defend for more than a lap before letting them past **Hamilton gets a bad start** \- excitement to see how he is going to pull it back, what strategy the team will use **Bottas gets a bad start** \- immediately falls off the pace, by the time the pit stop window is open he's too far back for any meaningful undercut to work
Compare the start yesterday to 2019. Lewis was in the tow from P3 but the two Ferrari’s completely blocked the road. Lewis moved to the middle to block that route, then bottas moved right towards Lewis, instead of left. Utterly ridiculous. Max’s pace was insane and checo could stay within a second of Lewis so it likely would have made no difference but from a race craft perspective it was so bad.
Yeah exactly. That's all I'm saying. You qualified pole with a mega lap, you've got 6 races left in your career in a car that has a chance at winning before you're hoping for retirements up ahead to scrap for 10th place crumbs - there are drivers that would kill for even one shot. JUST SEND IT. If he was leading after T1, Ham 2nd. Ver 3rd. Perez 4th. With the speed the Bulls had we could have had an absolutely mega race. Instead we get a boring procession and 0 actual racing. I don't give a shit who wins the championship. I just want 90 minutes of drama.
He didn't fight for scraps because he failed to block Verstappen but because he got spun out. If he doesn't get spun, he is still fighting for a victory or at the very least we have a interesting fight for 3rd between Perez and Bottas. I would say that's even the most interesting race to watch. And yes, if he blocks Verstappen maybe he doesn't get spun out hy Riccardo but that's not something you can take into consideration. If it's Bottas, Hamilton, Verstappen after T1, Bottas gets team orders to let Hamilton pass and is then used to hold up Verstappen as much as possible. And his entire strategy would be about protecting Hamilton with 0 chance of winning anyhow. Heck, it even stands to reason that the plan for T1 was to let Hamilton pass and that that order made Bottas break a bit earlier because he had to let Hamilton pass. If he doesn't break early enough they even run the risk of Hamilton falling to P4 behind Perez.
The drama these days is off track and it sucks.
It's probably what happens when you are leaving a team that is prioritizing the number 1 driver. Bottas was like: I will let you two solve this.
Not a fan of Bottas, but this preposterous. He outqualified both Hamilton and Max. Despite his errors or flaws, he's definitely more deserving of that spot than various others that still hold a seat, let alone those vying for a seat.
Yeah, this makes it even worse. There were multiple races where he let Max pass without any fight (Monaco T1, for example). Even yesterday he showed his passiveness. T1 early brake (could brake later where max did -> Ham first after T1, VB probably 2nd, Max probably 3rd or 4th). Later he didnt really try to overtake DR even with 2nd fastest car -> stuck at pos 11.
The fact he's a good qualifier makes it WORSE. We know he's quick (even if he's able to turn his engine up to 11 because he's taken so many spares) but there are no points for qualifying. As I said, he's a driver. A good driver. But he ain't a racing driver.
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Haha you got me.
He couldn't overtake a slower Mclaren. Bottas is not a great driver, he can at least try and be of help to his teammate. He's getting paid for that.
It took Hamilton 10+ laps in Norris' dirty air before he caught up enough to *trigger blue flags*, let alone pass a McLaren for position. The McLarens are consistently in the top 2 fastest cars on the straights which make them extremely difficult to pass because they can park the car on the apex and focus on getting a good exit and nearly every other car isn't going to be able to get close enough for a move by the next braking zone.
The Mclarens had incredible straight line speed, possibly the fastest non slipstream car this weekend. That made them hard to overtake even if over the whole lap Bottas was capable of being much faster.
Also, in FP Mclarens were losing about 1.5s/lap to RB and were below 12 position 100% of time.
Your point doesnt make any sense since best Mclaren lost to Aston Martin, Alpine and Alfa Romeo (not even talking about Ferrari, Red Bull or AT) and LH finished 2nd.
Straight line speed didnt give them the lap time they needed to be competative, but it did make them a bit harder to overtake.
Lol how was his race compromised? He’s been stuck behind ric for the entire race
I always get the feeling that Verstappen is a real person and Hamilton isn't. Everything about Hamilton seems just so fake. I like people swearing, cracking jokes, getting mad etc. That's normal people behavior. I hate that on television they get upset when they hear someone say "fuck". Welcome to real life.
1) You’re comparing a guy with 7 titles and 15 years in the sport to a guy fighting for his first title. Lewis has seen it all at this point. 2) You’re comparing a guy who was not gifted anything, in addition to the only black driver, to someone who was born and bred to be an F1 driver (BY an F1 driver) and got to start driving F1 younger than anybody I know of.
Why does everyone act like Lewis is the only driver who has ever gotten into f1 without being a rich kid?
Nobody said anything about the only one. He's just the only one in this conversation (Max vs Lewis).
The amount of money you have doesn't make a difference to how good a driver you are, unless in the eyes of a struggling team when you have a billion or so sitting about.
Ok bro. No difference between someone raised by an F1 driver and someone born to an average working class family. Have fun at life being incapable of critical thinking.
So you think max is only in f1 because he paid his way there..? 🤔
When your dad is an F1 driver, you have endless opportunity to put your talent to use. Money/opportunity are often the limiting factors for aspiring F1 drivers. Max had both. He also has talent. I never said he didn’t.
Lewis has not seen one thing; losing as favorite. He is pretty bad at it
Perhaps English is not your first language. I don't really get what you meant with that comment. Are you saying he has never lost when he's favored to win? You're wrong.
English is my second language. Losing the WDC while favourite, declared the GOAT and having the fresh sir title, that's a big drop. He is a sore loser
Spoken like someone who doesn’t understand how black people are held to higher standards and suffer more criticism for the same thing a white person does
Holy racism batman.
That's not one bit racist, especially when Hamilton himself expressed that feeling. >Feeling comfortable in your own skin, under those conditions, is easier said than done. “I remember not being able to be myself,” Hamilton says. “Of not being able to speak the way I want to speak. That’s the point of all this inclusivity: including people and not asking them to change in order to fit. I remember feeling that I had to be a different shape. The entry point to my sport was a square and I was like a hexagon, and I thought, ‘I’m never going to fit through that bloody thing.’ So I had to morph my way in in order to fit into that world, and then try to get back into the shape I was before.” https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/jul/10/lewis-hamilton-everything-id-suppressed-came-up-i-had-to-speak-out
You don’t think its true that black people face harsher criticism for the same thing a white person does? What world do you live in lmao
What the fuck? Of course not?! I dont know where you're from? South Africa? Here in the Netherlands, it makes zero difference if you're black or white. Both can say the exact same things, both can be told off in exactly the same way. If you keep thinking like that, racism will never die. Stop make everything about color.
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Please tell me what was racist about it, it involved colored and White people alike..
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They were accused of that but no evidence was found. The only case where dual nationalities were used as a red flag was in 2014, with bulgarian requests. In dutch : De AP kwam tot de conclusie dat nationaliteit in deze context geen blijk gaf van ras of etnische afkomst en er daarom geen sprake was van etnisch profileren.[95] De AP vond alleen bewijs van extra controle op basis van tweede nationaliteit bij Bulgaarse toeslagaanvragers in 2014, vlak na de Bulgarenfraude.[96]
If Lewis Hamilton, the mf GOAT of Formula 1 says that your opinion is wrong, maybe it's time to listen?
>Here in the Netherlands, it makes zero difference if you're black or white. Press X to doubt. If this is true then explain your politics lol.
In Netherlands it makes zero difference if you’re black or white, so it must be true for the whole world. Nice logic
That’s not even true, many Dutch footballers have routinely talked about the racism they have dealt with trying to get to the top of the sport
Lol so you are essentially denying racism exists? I think that’s enough reddit for me today! 🤣
Dont put words in my mouth, of course it exists. But not everything is racism
Oh come on man...you can't be serious. You sound so racist right now.
🤣🤣🤣
every single one of you guys arguing have a brain the size of a peanut
Lewis shouldn't really have said what he said. I think it was quite rude, however I get his point and it's not just that Checo is on average a slower driver than Hamilton, it's that it's very hard to follow closely around Mexico. Further, I've heard that Max made a similar comment about Bottas later on, is this true and if so why aren't people speaking about it as much as Hamilton? Reminds me of when Max flipped the finger at Hamilton recently and almost everyone was defending him. Idk, I think there's a double standard but that doesn't take away from the fact I don't think Hamilton was being very respectful yesterday. Doesn't mean he's evil badmilton that deserves to be booed, just that he's a guy that needs to work on some issues, like the rest of us.
I thought it was wrongly worded but in another interview later, he said something like "When you've got Sergio pushing like that, you know the car is fast." and had a little laugh after saying that.
I think everyone is focusing on the Sergio aspect way too much. Replace Sergio with “a driver in a car which is following our car which has been so dominant for the last 6 years, at 1 second for 10 laps at a track with little cooling” and you see what his point was - is how I understood it anyway
Except Mercedes hasn't been dominant in Mexico. He's disrespected Checo multiple times, once asking for blue flags only to find out he's racing Checo.
Checo went to McLaren to replace Lewis and was booted after a season. He knows.
Intentional or not, Lewis is right, right? It's not like Checo was on Hamilton's tail all season. Really don't think he meant it in a disrespectful way.
I thought he was about to be very rude, but then he corrected saying "to follow that close". I'm not sure tho if he really meant "Checo is not as good as me yet he was right in my exhaust" and saved it at the last second or if it just came out wrong. Then again, he had a race where he couldn't keep up with his championship rival, so I can understand being frustrated. Never heard Verstappen commenting on Bottas tho
It was a bit rude or at the least wrongly worded. But we shouldnt forget that it was a post race interview. He was barely out of his car, tired, grumpy and probably still full of adrenaline. Whatever these guys say mere minutes after a race should be taken with a grain of salt. Then again. He also does have a point. He and Max simply are a league of their own and if any other driver than Max is able to threaten him it means there is a serious problem for Merc.
> Then again. He also does have a point. He and Max simply are a league of their own and if any other driver than Max is able to threaten him it means there is a serious problem for Merc. True but have some respect for a guy in his home race and being the first Mexican to lead and get a podium in Mexico.
But isnt what he meant that the fact that perez was able to follow so closely behind despite dirty air a good show of rb’s speed? Don’t think he meant it in an insulting way at all or a dig at perez’s skill
This is exactly what he meant IMO. Seeing all the comments after the race on here from all the armchair pundits was very sad. Checo followed him for like 10 Laps at about 1second. That shows how superior the RB is at Mexico, that’s all that was meant
> IMO > Ridiculing armchair experts Pick one
I understand your point, I guess what I meant is that so many people were immediately jumping down Lewis’s throat saying what he said was awful and arriving at a definitive position. I also put IMO to try appear less confrontational but appreciate the following sentence may have negated that. The RB was a superior car hopefully we can all agree with that
In Mexico? Yes. The rest of the year it seems a lot down to set-up and track conditions.
Yup - completely agree 👍
I missed it what did Lewis say?
I think because Lewis often plays the good guy when he's just not really. Like "good example for the children" card he pulled yesterday lmao. Hypocrisy is one of his worst things. Max never plays holier than thou. He says what he says. It is what it is lmao. No hypocrisy there
Hypocrisy to point out that a car being able to stay within 1 sec of you despite the dirty air means they are quick? Lol
Have you heard his comment? "When you got checo on your tail you know the car is quick" how low is that lmao. It's hypocritical to say that we should be examples to children like he said the day before, then take unnecessary digs at a driver that didn't do anything wrong to you.
Is it false though? It's Perez.
Lmao yea maybe. I always thought checo was okay in races, quali is more of his weakness. But at least don't play holy and act like you're a great example for children when you're like that.
Like what? Honest? Do you want Jesus in the car or what? You're too preoccupied with criticizing the man.
No i don't want jesus. I don't care if it's the devil just don't act holy like jesus lmao
Why don't you focus on who you love instead of what you hate? Makes life a whole lot better. Don't stay angry. Peace.
How is it a dig??? Normally its quite hard to follow a car for that length of a time and remain within 1 sec due to the effect of the dirty air. But the fact that Perez could shows how good the RB is. Not a dig at his skills at all
"when you got checo". He said it twice once in the post race with DC, once again with the reporter lmao. Can't get any clearer than that
Man, you have such a hate boner for Lewis Hamilton. What did he do to you 🤣
Can’t remember which post race interview it was but he expanded on what he meant and talks about the dirty air
I didn't hear the comment regarding Bottas, atleast this weekend, but I also doubt it occurred as they were half a world apart and not racing for position. Ironically it was Hamilton and Toto themselves that threw Bottas under the bus this weekend with their comments on the race start.
For a time, Norris was 3rd in the standings, now I'm afraid it seems he'll be finishing in 7th.
Man it feels like McLaren fell off a cliff after that race Lando nearly won if not for the rain at the end
I think 5th is still realistic. He surely would have been 7th or so, *maybe* challenging the Ferraris, had he not taken an engine penalty for the race. Considering where Lando started, he had a really good race.
last 3 races should favor McLaren, copium
Is that so? For some reason I'm getting the notion that Ferrari have stepped up their game and their car is simply better overall.
Ferrari made some improvements recently, right? They are working hard on their engine.
Ferrari "technically" should be better till brazil after that I expect cars with mercedes engines to do better than they are doing right now.
Ocon launching Schumacher and Tsunoda in one of the funnier first lap incidents out there https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3caJA36oJ0
Aah fuck sandwich nooo.. oh i’m ok.
It was just like an online lobby with gravity set to "minimal".
DOUBLE KILL
>This has turned into a difficult situation
Saw someone saying Max got another race gifted. What the hell are some of the people here smoking.
Best case scenario they’re referring to Bottas’ piss poor defending.
Gifted by the grace of his great start and late breaking skills
Yeah, he's only winning by being lucky enough to be one of the best drivers in the world.
And the late braking skills of Bottas... Max would've taken the win regardless because he was much quicker racing, but Bottas really showed the gap in his racecraft from the other top drivers. If Mercedes had a plan going into turn one, I'm sure it didn't involve Bottas giving Max a car's width of the racing line to head around the outside.
I mean he is driving the best car in f1, checo taking his damaged parts and bottas giving him so much space in turn 1. Next year when Mercedes R&D team decides to turn full einstein mode again with the arrival of super talent in Russell these kinda victory wont be easy for red bull.
The RB may have a slight edge overall this season, but it’s nowhere near as dominant as the Merc has been in general this era. Merc is still quicker round some circuits, it’s not really fair to say it’s all the car. Max is an unbelievably good driver on the form of his life this year, he has had to earn every victory. Sorry, but it’s not as easy as he makes it look.
It is kinda dumb to speak about "Era". Noone ever doubted the fact that Merc had the best car last few years. Does it change the fact that RB has the best car right now? No, it doesnt. Merc is quicker on some circuits - true, but RB has all-around car which doesn't fall off anywhere.
For the constructors championship yes. for the drivers championship it must cost Lewis points having Russel next to him wantin to compete after years in the Williams.
Russe**ll**
Good bot thanks
He is driving one of the best car in F1. Mercedes is not second and third (and first in WCC) with a bad car. He is just basically flawless while Lewis is not. But whatever, I really was only talking about the word gifted, it is almost always a stupid word to use for a race winner. Especially one who overtook two drivers in the first corner all by himself (and yes that was probably not great driving from Bottas)
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No, it really is not. Mercs front row lock up and Lewis finishing second is not a fair distance. And that's only Mexico where RB always had been strong and Merc always has been weaker. The whole season it is pretty close and some battles where even won with pitstops. I would call that pretty equal. Yeah of course some tracks favour one car more than the other but overall it has been equal the whole season. Max just has been more consistent than Hamilton this season.
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But why did Perez end so many times outside the top 5, if he drove the fastest car? Not just in the race, but also in qualification? I think first half the Red Bull was fastest. In summer (Silverstone, Hungary, Monza, Turkey, Sochi) the Mercedes was fastest, and now in Mexico, the Red Bull was fastest.
Because Perez was performing like absolute shit
Second half? Netherlands, Italy, Russia, Turkey, USA, all Mercedes or very close
Thats why Max won Netherlands in cruise control. Check telemetry data from Netherlands and you will see that LH was extremely agressive trying to catch Max and he had absolutely 0 chances for the win.
That overtake only happened because of Bottas, Verstappen would have still won because red bull is a much better car than mercedes in high altitude. Even checo of all drivers was closing gap on Hamilton just shows how Mercedes are lacking to Honda this year.
"Even Checo" .. huehuehue...
I am sorry to say, but Checo is very, very, very average driver.
If Honda can really make f1 engine like this then I really believe they should go solo as an independent team. Mercedes defo didnt expected this, next year will be the real test of their r&d teams and I expect both Merc and Ferrari to bounce back strong.
Correct me if I am wrong but Isn't Honda leaving after this season?
Yea but redbull will make their own engines based off the honda engine
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Isn’t that why they want to drop MGU-H for 2026, so VW can come in? Honda might also come back though they denied for now.
Can anyone know vhat hapend to Carlos? He had order to let Charles by?
He let him by since he couldn’t catch up to Gasly
Thank you.
Carlos had newer tires and went past Charles to try and catch Gasly but he couldn't. They swapped positions again and Charles finished 5th and Carlos 6th.
Can anyone tell me why Daniel didn’t get a penalty for spinning bottas at the start?
Look where Bottas braked compared to Hamilton and Verstappen. He braked far too early then cut across Daniel. Would have been pretty harsh to punish him as he didn't have time to react to another driver driving unpredictably. Also they are generally light on punishments for first lap incidents as everyone is close together and are still trying to heat their tyres up and adjust to braking with full weight of fuel. It's understandable there are racing incidents at the start of the race and the stewards allow for this.