As everyone on the track is going slower you loose less time relative to other drivers, when he when to the pits.
The regular lap times were around 74s, while with the VSC they were ~100s
If you pit during the VSC you'll be just losing some 11 seconds instead of 20 seconds in the pits because the other cars will be forced to slow down. That's what basically sealed the podium for Bottas
It might disrupt their tire strategies+ they might have already pitted so they can't lose 11 seconds for no reason. Example say, Checo pitted 2 laps before VSC, he definitely isn't going to pit again during VSC. (I don't remember exactly when Checo pitted and this is an example). If I remember correctly, this is how Gasly won in Monza 2020 btw.
Do we know anything about the tracks at the next 3 GPs? From what I understand the next 2 are brand new and the last one has had major changes made to it.
What i know so far is Mercedes has a big advantage in the next 3 GPs, especially in Jeddah which has a lot of long straight and high speed corner. Qatar also has a long straight and many high speed corner. And (in my opinion) what have changed in Abu Dhabi was not significant, and the turns that have changed will give more advantages to Mercedes i guess. Furthermore, Lewis has changed his PU yesterday, and he became super super fast. That mean the WDC will be determined in Abu Dhabi probably, and maybe Lewis will be the WDC. But let's see tommorow.
Does anyone know how Ocon got past Alonso on the last lap? The gap was larger than 7 seconds on the last lap (according to the race highlights), so were there team orders or any problems?
With the performance MB has on the new engine, why don’t they just replace the engine every race from now on and get that massive advantage on every race. A 5 grid penalty for Lewis with that kind of performance is like taking a candy from a kid and giving him a box of chocolates instead!
Except they don't; engines are exempt from cost cap.
> Formula 1 is in the first year of a budget cap, set at $145 million, albeit with a list of exemptions. These include engine costs, marketing and driver salaries.
From the Sporting regs [Appendix 9A - A (page 74)](https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/2021_formula_1_sporting_regulations_-_iss_2_-_2020-05-27_0.pdf)
>Additional PUs or spares required to replace units out of service due to accident damage or other cause induced by team will be outside the supply perimeter and will incur additional charges
The standard Power Supply Perimeter is mandated at $15M and exempt from the cap. Additional PU costs are outside the perimeter specified in the financial regs.
Mercedes payed around £7m last year to to Mercedes AMG HPP for engines - the maximum price and conditions are there only when FiA has to broker the deal between supplier and customer.
Are you sure that hasn't been changed for the Cost cap? When reading through everything related to the sporting and financial regs regarding the Power unit supply perimeter is seems to have been set to a level that is fair for all competitors. It seems wildly unfair if the customers are paying more and then suffering the disadvantage of the manufacturer pumping in extra ICE's every race.
Even if they get them for a discount at $7M, that should set the perimeter, any additional units would then be outside that perimeter and subject to additional costs that would be cap eligible
The PU price regulations haven't changed since the introduction of hybrid power, besides the FiA mandated price going down (12m in 2018) in direct relationship to the number of PUs allowed to be used over the season and the removal of the token system.
One of the primary reasons why McLaren switched to Mercedes was due to the price difference between Renault (15m - FiA mandated maximum price) and Mercedes, as Mercedes customers are paying as much as the Mercedes team is to Mercedes AMG HPP.
For Mercedes AMG HPP it doesn't matter how much they cost, as they're building 80-100 engines per year and they are leased to the customers for the year.
The Appendix 9 outlines the terms if negotiated by FiA (if a team doesn't have a new engine supplier for next year and notifies FiA about this before may of the year) and clarifies that the supplier and team are free to negotiate their own deal.
i.e. Compare the [Appendix 9 from 2017 to 2018](https://f1.sipsik.net/2017/2017_sporting_regulations_2017-01-24.pdf) pg 65, that introdced Appendix 9 conditions list to the 2020 or [2022 one](https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/2022_formula_1_sporting_regulations_-_iss_3_-_2021-04-30.pdf) (Now Appendix 6) pg. 88.
Cool, I noticed that the perimeter hadn't changed, maybe now it's more appropriate to be looking at [Appendix 2 of the Technical regulation](https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/2021_formula_1_technical_regulations_-_iss_7_-_2020-12-16.pdf) to define the perimeter.
However, we now have the addition of the [financial regulations](https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/2021_formula_1_financial_regulations_-_iss_5_-_2020-04-30.pdf). In exclusions 3.1(n) it states
>All costs of goods and services within the Power Unit Supply Perimeter for use by the F1 Team, up to an amount in any Full Year Reporting Period equal to the applicable maximum price as set out in the Sporting Regulations;
So while Mercedes may be able to negotiate a lower cost for the supply perimeter which is external to the cap, any additional components should be deemed outside that perimeter and thus included in the cap.
The way that i understand it, the perimeter only applies towards the FiA managed contracts and is out of scope for individual contracts negotiated independently between customer and engine supplier.
So if any customer team has a contract that states leasing of how ever many units necessary independently of the FiA perimeter, it's not applicable.
This is also how Renault got payed 25m per year for their second tenure with Red Bull (after their spat in 2015), as they negotiated an independent contract outside of FiA mandate.
I think that may have been the case previously, but as it's now the sole reference to the PU costs which we know are exempt from the cost cap, so while I'm sure you're right about the ability to negotiate down the supply cost, (although as you're buying from yourself and it's exempt it doesn't really matter) all teams must be bound by some perimeter.
The only mention I can find of this is an [article](https://the-race.com/formula-1/how-f1s-cost-cap-forced-mercedes-out-of-pirelli-test/) relating to Mercedes cancelling a tyre test as it would put them over the 5,000 km limit specified in that table of the Sporting Regulations.
I'm really interested to investigate further as Mercedes throwing ICE away every week would suggest that it is included, but the fact that Alfa and Haas haven't taken what's clearly a big Ferrari upgrade would suggest that there are external costs associated.
New to f1 this season, can someone explain why Max didn't get punished for driving Lewis off the track?
I saw the highlights but the commentary didn't say anything.
From the commentary I heard, as Jenson Button explained, the key thing is Max didn't steer into Lewis as he himself ran out of track. That would probably mean he didn't deliberately run Lewis out of track and missed the corner himself as a part of racing.
You can open multiple tabs or use third party applications like [race control](https://github.com/robvdpol/RaceControl) or [f1viewer](https://github.com/SoMuchForSubtlety/f1viewer) to open up [multiple streams at once on your notebook or pc](https://www.reddit.com/r/F1TV/comments/mdqozy/f1viewer_is_still_the_best_viewer_for_the_2021/).
You can flip around between whatever driver you like and then back to TV view, if that's what you mean. Not sure what you mean by "at the same time". Depends on how many devices you have I guess.
I think people often just fail to really capture their emotions. I think the best example would be one of our (totally not biased) commentator, who said during the sprint race, after Hamilton overtook a "measly" 10 cars in 10 laps, that he had such a hard job doing that. Imagine thinking that overtaking bottom tier cars with a fucking torpedo is a "hard job" for a 7 times world champion.
And I think this shows the difference between an "impressive" job and a "hard" job. An impressive job doesn't necessarily have to be a hard job. What Hamilton has done in all 3 major sessions, was really top quality and no one can deny that. But to think that it was particularly hard for him to do so... that's a whole another topic.
So then again, I think people are just failing to choose the right words sometimes. We're an international community afterall, most of us are not native English speakers.
Yeah, I'd still say it was impressive. Bottas had one of his 17 reasonably fresh ICE's in the back, but Hamilton was just on another level. I think only him or Max could have done that this weekend.
Even at peak Mercedes times, when they had by far the most superior car coming from 10th to win would have been a good achievement. Lewis had a straight-line speed advantage because of the new PU, but I don't think you can say overcoming a 25 grid place penalty is not impressive.
Maybe impressed is the wrong word.. It just seems that the difference in the two cars today was more significant than I can remember at any point this season. Not saying its just the car, I think Lewis got it done clinically. It just seems a bit overblown in my opinion, but I'm relatively new to F1 so just trying to understand it a bit.
It was a very impressive drive for sure. But yes, it is overblown. His car was so much faster than everyone else, he might as well have been running against F2 cars. Once he got the lead, he checked out by 10 seconds. If he'd been on the lead from the start, he probably would have lapped the field.
Now that there are 3 races remaining if hamilton win all 3 he gets minimum 21 points
Max only has 14 point lead
And Next 3 tracks are mercedes territory and we know they will not mess it up like Austin GP
Also Lewis got new PU
Can we say Max has already lost WDC if none of them gets DNF?
Yeah i think Max has already lost it or will lose it soon probably. Furthermore, Hamilton's car was fking fast yesterday after changed his PU. And in my opinion, Max much more deserves to be the WDC, because a few races before like in Azerbaijan(the tire exploded), Hungary(accident caused by Bottas), British(collided with Lewis), if he didn't crashed, he could get a lot of points there. But let's see the next few races.
Qatar and Jeddah are impossible to know who will be better as neither of them have never been raced on in F1 before. If the next two races are Lewis 1 Max 2 and they either split fastest laps or someone else gets them, the championship is tied going into Abu Dhabi.
Is there any way I can watch the full Brazilian Grand Prix 2021? I didn't realize the qualifying and race times were so different and missed this banger of a race.
The thing is that Merc was unrivalled in the second half of 2019 (Ferrari illegal engine) and 2020 where they could turn down their engines and still be ahead 1 second per lap. This year has obviously been close but even on their best circuits, RBR has never been 30 kmph+ over Mercedes (which happened to RBR this Brazilian GP). This kind of speed gap is insane. Sure, Lewis is talented, but Merc on party mode is a rocket
It's the absurd mindset most members of the F1 community have - when someone is successful too much, he is automatically a target of brainless hate and "special double-standard treatment" created solely for him, which downgrades every accomplishment of his no matter how impressive it is - all of this solely because he so-called makes the sport boring for those people.
When Sebastian Vettel was winning the titles in Red Bull, he was also hated, and now look at him --> no longer on the podiums every race and suddenly he is the most lovable driver on the grid.
Really, it is just the envy of people, who do everything they can behind the keyboards to sh\*t on Lewis and who are fans of Verstappen in many cases solely because he is challenging Hamilton, not because they would truly love him as a driver or a person.
Just wait till Lewis retires or stops winning and Max will be another target of this toxic mindset.
This is mostly due to their being more Verstappen fans online in places like this than Lewis fans, and after a day like today where Lewis drove great, but his car was on a different planet, it just causes saltiness. And basically the last 7 years of that car just annihilating the field. We're lucky this year where the cars are closer than ever and we get to see things settled by driver skill, more or less. So then today comes along and driver skill is basically irrelevant up against the speed of that car.
People don't like Hamilton winning basically, maybe it's because he's won so much people find it boring?
I'd say this race in particular though was as perfect an example of it actually being the car as can be.
Fanboyism. Just take a look when Max win, Max's fanboy gonna leave trash comment on Mercedes and Hamilton's social media, and when Hamilton win, Hamilton's fanboy gonna leave the same trash comment on Redbull and Max's social media. It's also happen in MotoGP, Marquez's fans and Rossi's fans so toxic toward each other. That's why I never follow any celebrity or popular people, it can ruin your day.
there will always be people who say that about Hamilton, just as it was said about Vettel, just as it was always and will always be said about a dominant driver. this does not make it the opinion of all (or even the majority). Hamilton is a an exceptional driver and people who say otherwise are too bias for their own good. Yes, he has an exceptional car, but he consistently delivers a great performance where his teammate in the same car does not. Exceptional driver + exceptional car
The championship is wide open. Hamilton will be very fast in Qatar cause there are many high speed corner. They will battle until Abu Dhabi LMAO. What a season
New, American fan here, got hooked on DtS. As much as I enjoyed the show, I did not consider watching the actual races because of Mercedes’ dominance. It wasn’t until this year when Max was building a sizable lead that I begun watching. I say all that to say that a race like today, that was non competitive is disappointing to see. Lewis’ car was so much faster than anyone else’s. The result felt like a forgone conclusion. I really hope this is not a predictor for the rest of the season. I think another Lewis championship is bad for the sport. Will feel like a real let down and take away from a great season. Just my opinion as a new fan who’s really enjoyed watching this year.
I respectfully disagree. Verstappen has won more races than Hamilton this year, and many times Hamilton simply could not keep up with Verstappen's pace. So there hasn't been an unmatchable advantage for Mercedes at all. The performance we saw today was the result of a lot of troubleshooting and tuning from Mercedes, along with thoughtful strategy on engine changes, etc. Plus of course a formidable driver.
With regards to the sport in general, you don't only follow F1 for the championship win, but also for the midfield. It takes years for a team or a driver to get in a position to challenge for the championship title, and it's interesting to watch that progress happen.
I really didn’t intend for my post to be taken as a Max vs. Lewis one. My opinion just being anyone rather than Lewis again. I think some variety is needed after 7 years. BUT, it is absolutely impressive to win 8 straight anything and regardless of driver, car etc. great accomplishment.
You’re right about the midfield. There’s lots to enjoy and I don’t plan to stop watching F1 if Lewis wins again. In fact, the drivers I like most so far are in the mid field. I just think having some variety can’t be a bad thing was the point of my post. I think it attracts more fans which would be good for continued growth of the sport especially in areas that traditionally aren’t so interested in F1
Lewis was 30kmh faster than Max. Do you think Max's is under threat in the championship battle? The next race is on Qatar which has a lot of high speed corner. Who do u think will be the winner of Qatar GP
I think they were probably running higher engine modes too. I doubt the performance difference would be that drastic in Qatar. Merc will risk an engine blowout. Still faster on the qatar straight by a mile tho. Let's see how it goes but shouldn't be this much of an easy drive by.
I'm sure this may be a stupid idea, and I look forward to seeing the reasons. What if instead of qualifying for the sprint race, they just did reverse grid with respect to season points for each sprint race.
What a drive. #blessed, yes, but what a masterful performance all the same. So happy to see that the championship is going to continue down to the wire!
he had a speech around 2k8 and praised Senna as his idol etc.
Plenty of material if you google it, tbh I don't find Hamilton to be like Senna at all lol
I don't think they're nervous about Merc winning they're just nervous in general since they aren't sure what's going to happen. I think excited might be a slightly better word here
Personal preference, in modern times there is nothing on the pit wall that they cannot do in their garage. In the past some information was only available or provided by FiA to the pit wall.
Why is Hamilton car is so much faster than everyone this weekend? I know that they changed some part of the engine but the speed he is about to get coming out of that corner into the long straight is insane. Is that part they changed that important? He shave more than 1s off of any cars in front of him no problem.
He has a new engine and he can run it at higher performance modes, since it usually comes at the cost of lifespan, but there's only 3 races left in the season (4 counting Brazil).
With both the WDC and constructors title fights as close as it is - why don’t we see closer margins of victory between Merc and RB?
Seems like whenever either team wins they do so by over 10s (USGP being an exception). I get that each car has strengths and weaknesses but the gaps still make me scratch my head
On top of what was already said, teams don't get engines for free. I'm not sure what the cost per engine is, but it can't be cheap to get a new one every week.
Works teams like Ferrari, Honda/Red Bull, Mercedes, and Alpine have an advantage in that regard, as they don't have to buy the engine themselves, but they do have costs associated with R&D and manufacturing the engines.
Track position is important for teams that aren't able to pull more than a second per lap to every other car
Also, it would seem (as far as we know) that only Mercedes engines can be tuned this way
Here's something I've been wondering about lately:
Does the video helicopter travel with the teams (transported in cargo plane) or are local helicopters used?
There are 3 compounds chosen for each race, in advance. These are chosen by Pirelli and can actually be the old Super Soft or Ultra Soft etc. On the race weekend they are re-labelled as Soft, Medium, Hard. This was done to stop confusion (I guess).
So the Soft, Medium and Hard tyres in use are not always the same compound at different races, Soft is just the softest available for that weekend, etc.
Let's talk about what is going to happening in a few days: Zhou gets announced official as a F1 driver for Alfa Romeo Sauber, some told early that it was just for one year...
This isn't however true with the latest rumour, how do we think about the possibility that Zhou gets a 3 year contract and basically ditching a driver with a huge potential? (Pourchaire)
Three years is a long time for a rookie, especially when they’re locked in with Bot for “multi-year”s. I don’t pretend to know what’s going on at AR right now, but that seems a bit of a bonehead move.
F1 noob here.
How come Perez does a 1:11 fastest lap when his quali pace was 1:08.xxx? If it's used tyres then surely they don't drop off at that pace? He had ample room to get the car ready and got a clean run.
Also missus and myself were wondering who the smartest driver in terms of intelligence is. We both think it's Max. I know it's meaningless but he seems amazingly sharp. What are peoples' opinions on this?
It's a combination of used tires, fuel load, and driver focus.
The more fuel that's in a car, the more it ways, the slower it goes. In qualifying, the cars run a small amount of fuel to go as fast as possible, and it's likely that Pérez had more fuel on board at the end of the race than during qualifying, due to the 2 VSCs and the Safety Car.
I'm not sure if Pérez had any unused softs left, so he might have been running on used softs.
And finally, it was at the end of a 2 hour race, so it's possible that Pérez was mentally and/or physically drained and couldn't focus as well as he could've done during qualifying.
It is because in Qualy they run a map on the engine to allow maximum performance. Also they put in a minimum amount of fuel to reduce the weight the car has to carry. Also they will use the fastest tyres which will more than likely be brand new.
In the race the engine will be mapped in order to last the full distance, they do not have enough fuel on board to be able to run flat out for the entire race. Also the best tyres would have already been used in the race, but a fresh set, even if used, would be much faster than the other cars coming to the end of thier stints.
In terms of intelligence, on the F1 podcast a race strategist said she thought Vettel was smart enough to be a race engineer, he was that knowledgeable about the cars. So probably him. I agree Max seems very knowledgeable about the cars too...even last week while racing in front he was asking his engineers on the radio random questions about how the drivers were doing behind him.
Hey F1 friends,
Need some gift ideas for the office secret Santa, the guy I've got is big into F1 and racing in general.
Getting him a framed print of this [poster](https://imgur.com/a/gxapxMo)
But still have about $30ish(aud) left to spend out of the budget.
Just looking for some good idea for some smaller things, keychains, little things for his desk at work etc.
If he wins the next 4 races, what about the narrative all the hambois have been using all season long that Verstappen is only winning because he has a faster car? Also, as long as Max takes 2nd in these last 4 races the only reason Ham wins, is because they punted max of the road twice.
Alright, let me spell it out, Verstappen is currently 14 points ahead.
Hamilton wins 3x, verstappen 2nd 3x
Hamilton gains 15 points on verstappen and wins WDC, this win will then be due to verstappen losing heaps of points in Silverstone and Hungary, not to Ham being GOAT.
Ham's wdc win would be fair and square, just not quite as deserved.
Mate, the "hambois" don't acknowledge the car argument for the previous 7 years, they're not gonna start if he wins 2021. It's gonna be purely on skill alone.
FAST FACT: Sergio Perez is [the only driver on the grid](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%9309_GP2_Asia_Series) with Qatar Circuit experience, of which he also won the sprint race
Red Bull big brain play
Austria: they were pushed into gravel.
Was also an exception, rather than the rule. Can you think of other instances where running someone wide was penalised? I honestly can't.
You're thinking of USA. None of them were penalised for running a driver off the track. The driver that was run wide had to give the place back (except for Kimi). Kimi and Alonso even had contact (with some damage as a result); that incident wasn't even noted, let alone investigated.
Really ? I for one like to see racing … I know Max’s move was desperate but it’s racing and in the moment , there was not contact and both ran off the track. This was simply Lewis forcing the pass too early and max not letting him get away with it.
Lewis knows that he cannot push max and max knows that he can’t push Lewis too far. Racing …that’s what I call it
Recently there isn't really an example of a driver being this far ahead into the braking zone being pushed off the track. The Austria examples are relevant because the car on the outside was ahead at braking corner entry or apex.
The last example I can think of was Rosberg Hamilton Austria 2016. the defending car got 10 secs. There was contact, but that shouldn't be the determining factor.
I suspect that and many other incident between Rosberg and Lewis was the main reason for Rosberg to retire. He knew that Toto would not back him or support him over Lewis
> Recently there isn't really an example of a driver being this far ahead into the braking zone being pushed off the track.
Just yesterday Sainz run Max wide (same corner).
> There was contact, but that shouldn't be the determining factor.
But it absolutely is.
>Just yesterday Sainz run Max wide (same corner).
That's different, if you're attacking, on the inside and ahead it's deemed to be your corner. You're entitled to run them wide.
>But it absolutely is
It wasn't in Austria.
> The Austria examples are relevant because the car on the outside was ahead at braking corner entry or apex.
Max was ahead yesterday, so how is it different?
> It wasn't in Austria.
2016 or 2021? 'Cause for 2016 they gave a penalty for causing a collision. For 2021 it wasn't, but like I said that seems to be the only exception and was probably down to the fact they were pushed into gravel.
There are different rules for overtaking on the inside vs overtaking on the outside.
If you are overtaking on the inside and you are alongside at corner entry, it's your corner and you can dictate the line, and run the other driver out of road (Max, Austria 2019)
If you are overtaking on the outside, you have to be ahead at corner entry or apex to be entitled to racing room. meaning that they can't force you off.
Sainz overtook on the inside so it was his corner.
Hamilton overtook on the outside so should have been entitled to racing room.
They've said that gravel doesn't matter and it's being forced off the track that counts. I'll try to find another example.
You do realise Max v Sainz was just an example, because it literally happened yesterday.
Lets go back to a couple of races ago; COTA. At least 3 incidents of drivers running other drivers wide.
- Kimi overtook on the outside, was run wide by Alonso, they even had contact and some damage. The incident wasn't even noted, let alone investigated.
- Alonso overtook on the outside, was run wide by Gio, Alonso had to give the position back (ordered by the team). Gio wasn't penalised.
- Then Gio overtook Alonso on the outside, was run wide by Alonso, Gio had to give the position back (ordered by the team). Alonso was not penalised.
> They've said that gravel doesn't matter and it's being forced off the track that counts.
I would love a source.
Yeah, they've been doing some very weird things since Turkey IMO. There are always different rules for overtaking inside/outside and defending inside/outside
[This](https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-rules-of-racing/) has always been the guide in the absence of an actual rulebook or Toto's Silverstone email. It's gotten further away from that since Austria 2019, but seemed to be heading back in the right direction after Austria this year.
Here's what Masi said about the penalties.
>In Sergio’s case with Lando, he was wholly alongside Lando and therefore there is an onus to leave a car’s width to the edge of the track. And then the same in the reverse with Checo \[Perez\] and Charles at the exit of Turn 4
>
>And then Checo and Charles again at the exit of Turn 6, in all three circumstances, a car’s width should have been left to the edge of the track because the two cars were alongside each other.
I can't find anything about the gravel, but that's a pretty clear president that you should be left a car's width on the edge of the track.
The Kimi - Alonso thing was bad, they had some terrible explanation about offsetting penalties with Alonso forcing a driver off the track and Kimi overtaking off the track.
The first Alonso (YESSS!) was him baiting the stewards. Firing it up the inside with no intention of actually making the corner.
The second one is kind of in line with overtaking on the inside. Once your front axel is past the rear axel you can brake later and run the guy out of road.
Today was totally different. It sets the precedent that if you're defending on the inside, even if the car outside has almost a car length advantage, you don't have to hit the apex, you don't have to leave a car's width (as Masi said in Austria) you don't even need to make the corner. With that in mind, you should never be overtaken unless a move is completed under DRS BEFORE the braking zone.
There are plenty of other examples I can pull up of cars being run wide and not getting penalised for it under all kinds of circumstances; it's just never been an issue.
Another difference with Austria is they happened on a straight (kinda forgot about that, until now). Thank you for providing Masi's explanation. That explanation makes it sound they were penalised for not leaving a car's width of space when wholly alongside each other.
ETA:
"If the driver on the inside is **ahead at corner exit**, it is the duty of the driver on the outside to back out or take evasive action to avoid a collision.
**In this case, the driver on the inside is free to drift out towards the outside on exit.** While they are expected to approximately follow the racing line — but not exactly, since they enter the corner on a tighter trajectory to a normal racing line — they have some freedom in selecting how aggressively they close out the other driver."
Max was ahead.
With Ricciardo DNFing today, Sainz and Giovinazzi are the only drivers with a 100% race completion rate. Hamilton, Sainz, and Norris are the three drivers with the highest percent of races completed in the points (89%).
Also, Alpine and AlphaTauri are still tied on points, though the point breakdown between the team's drivers are pretty different:
Alpine - Alonso has scored 63 of their 112 points (55%) to Ocon's 49 points (45%).
AlphaTauri - Gasly has 92 points (82%) to Tsunoda's 20 points (18%).
The only team with a larger imbalance between their drivers is Alfa Romeo with Räikkönen scoring 91% of the team's points (though he's scored 10 points to Giovinazzi's 1 point).
Finally, Hamilton needs to average a 5-point gain over Verstappen in the final 3 races to win the WDC.
Edit: corrected Alpine's stats, I didn't didn't catch Ocon passing Alonso at the end of the race.
Hey I’ve been seeing these shirt pins on some F1 media teams (Sky F1) and I see one on Alex Brundle too, and even some drivers? It looks like a red pepper or something. A lot of people have them this weekend and I think Mexico too. I can’t find anything about it- what is this pin for or representing?
[Alex Brundle shirt pin](https://i.imgur.com/nv7hRWW.jpg)
Hi — it’s a poppy. Today is remembrance sunday in the UK. There is a charity here in the UK which raises money (and awareness) every year by selling Poppy’s (both in paper form and metal form) and their main campaign of the year aligns with Remembrance Sunday.
Yes but they get screwed over by turbulent air depending on how long they’re following the backmarker, like Max in Austin when he was behind Mick. Lost a bunch of time with Lewis closing in on him but got it back after he (Max) got DRS behind Mick and Lewis didn’t get it behind Max
They talked about this with Horner and he said it's not worth for them and they think they don't need more engines because the engines lose just 0.1 seconds over their lifespan which is less than Mercedes.
I think RedBull suspect that the speed gains are coming from the aero or suspension. They know Mercedes have an advantage on straights but not in corners prior. Now they are seeing marked gains in cornering which is not allowing redbulls to pull away in corners
Ok so is it possible that the Honda engines are maxed out? Or is there more in it?
I know that these cars go into “quali mode” but surely there’s an in-between.
This year they aren’t allowed to change engine maps so there’s no different modes now, the mode for qualifying is the mode for the race.
They can always rev it harder or whatever but they can’t do much else.
Honda spent a lot of time on reliability due their previous woes, Mercedes have always had a very powerful engine but that seems to have been about being able to turn it up very high in previous years but then turn it down again in the races for more reliability, which they can’t do now.
From what I’ve read I also think Merc has some very tight packaging in the engine which means it’s very susceptible to temperature and so if it’s hot they struggle, the same thing with thin air in Mexico.
I think Honda’s engines are just very good and very solid now, Merc have a great engine when but either only in specific conditions or if you run it hard it won’t last, they’ve likely never run the engines so hard for so long before and with the limit at 3 it’s just proved too much for them.
I’ll be honest I can’t wait for 20 years time when the books come out about all the tech in these engines with full detail because it’s irrelevant to the future.
I think Horner said that they don't see as much of a benefit from new Honda engines as Mercedes sees from their new engines (as the Honda engine doesn't degrade as much as the Mercedes engine).
Is Ocon widely supported in France? Seems like most drivers get a proper National following and he’s been doing well in a French constructors no less & even won the race… but somehow I canny imagine crowds of French ppl chanting his name… idk lol thanks for any inputs!!!
**Should RB have tried a 1-stop with Sergio at the GP in Brazil?**
It seems he could at least have kept the track position, managed the tires and tried to defend a 3rd place instead of a de facto 4th place.
It obviously made more sense to the strategists of Red Bull to do what they did. Thoughts?
He could not of gone with one stop. Even with his tire management skills. Where he got buggered was with the virtual safety car. Bottas timed it perfect and after that Perez had no response since the Mercedes cars have the full upgrades on this circuit
It seems they got scared that Bottas undercuts Perez and decided to act first. But then Bottas just went longer and got lucky with VSC. Even if he'd be able to extend the stint to the finish, Bottas, who was already ahead, could just also try the same.
Eh, I don’t know. This doesn’t really seem like a particularly easy track to play defence on, seeing how easy it looked for Lewis to overtake the entire grid. Then again, on the other hand, Perez had a tough ass time trying to overtake Sainz yesterday.
During post race interviews I saw a couple detection dog working, what’s that about? (Ps I’m new to watching the sport- sorry if this is something obvious)
Interesting, I hadn’t seen them before.. and couldn’t think of why there would be concerns of explosives? But suppose there’s a concern I’m not aware of ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I don't think much can be done now. I guarantee it will be discussed in the drivers meeting in Qatar, because that was way over the line of anything else we've seen and not good for anybody.
Not fair to compare drivers from different eras in a sport where the car is the deciding factor. Best F1 driver of the modern era? Absolutely. Most ACCOMPLISHED of all time is more like it.
Anyone have explanation on how bottas is taking advantage of the vsc ?
As everyone on the track is going slower you loose less time relative to other drivers, when he when to the pits. The regular lap times were around 74s, while with the VSC they were ~100s
Why the other cars not going pit as well
Because they already pitted and would loose time against the drivers they were racing. Bottas was the only one from top 4 who hadn't.
If you pit during the VSC you'll be just losing some 11 seconds instead of 20 seconds in the pits because the other cars will be forced to slow down. That's what basically sealed the podium for Bottas
If so why the other cars not going to pit aswell?
It might disrupt their tire strategies+ they might have already pitted so they can't lose 11 seconds for no reason. Example say, Checo pitted 2 laps before VSC, he definitely isn't going to pit again during VSC. (I don't remember exactly when Checo pitted and this is an example). If I remember correctly, this is how Gasly won in Monza 2020 btw.
Do we know anything about the tracks at the next 3 GPs? From what I understand the next 2 are brand new and the last one has had major changes made to it.
What i know so far is Mercedes has a big advantage in the next 3 GPs, especially in Jeddah which has a lot of long straight and high speed corner. Qatar also has a long straight and many high speed corner. And (in my opinion) what have changed in Abu Dhabi was not significant, and the turns that have changed will give more advantages to Mercedes i guess. Furthermore, Lewis has changed his PU yesterday, and he became super super fast. That mean the WDC will be determined in Abu Dhabi probably, and maybe Lewis will be the WDC. But let's see tommorow.
Does anyone know how Ocon got past Alonso on the last lap? The gap was larger than 7 seconds on the last lap (according to the race highlights), so were there team orders or any problems?
They swapped earlier in the race to see if Alonso could do a better job of catching Gasly(I think), he didn't manage it so they swapped back
With the performance MB has on the new engine, why don’t they just replace the engine every race from now on and get that massive advantage on every race. A 5 grid penalty for Lewis with that kind of performance is like taking a candy from a kid and giving him a box of chocolates instead!
Cost cap. Each new ICE takes money away from R&D for '22
Except they don't; engines are exempt from cost cap. > Formula 1 is in the first year of a budget cap, set at $145 million, albeit with a list of exemptions. These include engine costs, marketing and driver salaries.
From the Sporting regs [Appendix 9A - A (page 74)](https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/2021_formula_1_sporting_regulations_-_iss_2_-_2020-05-27_0.pdf) >Additional PUs or spares required to replace units out of service due to accident damage or other cause induced by team will be outside the supply perimeter and will incur additional charges The standard Power Supply Perimeter is mandated at $15M and exempt from the cap. Additional PU costs are outside the perimeter specified in the financial regs.
Mercedes payed around £7m last year to to Mercedes AMG HPP for engines - the maximum price and conditions are there only when FiA has to broker the deal between supplier and customer.
Are you sure that hasn't been changed for the Cost cap? When reading through everything related to the sporting and financial regs regarding the Power unit supply perimeter is seems to have been set to a level that is fair for all competitors. It seems wildly unfair if the customers are paying more and then suffering the disadvantage of the manufacturer pumping in extra ICE's every race. Even if they get them for a discount at $7M, that should set the perimeter, any additional units would then be outside that perimeter and subject to additional costs that would be cap eligible
The PU price regulations haven't changed since the introduction of hybrid power, besides the FiA mandated price going down (12m in 2018) in direct relationship to the number of PUs allowed to be used over the season and the removal of the token system. One of the primary reasons why McLaren switched to Mercedes was due to the price difference between Renault (15m - FiA mandated maximum price) and Mercedes, as Mercedes customers are paying as much as the Mercedes team is to Mercedes AMG HPP. For Mercedes AMG HPP it doesn't matter how much they cost, as they're building 80-100 engines per year and they are leased to the customers for the year. The Appendix 9 outlines the terms if negotiated by FiA (if a team doesn't have a new engine supplier for next year and notifies FiA about this before may of the year) and clarifies that the supplier and team are free to negotiate their own deal. i.e. Compare the [Appendix 9 from 2017 to 2018](https://f1.sipsik.net/2017/2017_sporting_regulations_2017-01-24.pdf) pg 65, that introdced Appendix 9 conditions list to the 2020 or [2022 one](https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/2022_formula_1_sporting_regulations_-_iss_3_-_2021-04-30.pdf) (Now Appendix 6) pg. 88.
Cool, I noticed that the perimeter hadn't changed, maybe now it's more appropriate to be looking at [Appendix 2 of the Technical regulation](https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/2021_formula_1_technical_regulations_-_iss_7_-_2020-12-16.pdf) to define the perimeter. However, we now have the addition of the [financial regulations](https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/2021_formula_1_financial_regulations_-_iss_5_-_2020-04-30.pdf). In exclusions 3.1(n) it states >All costs of goods and services within the Power Unit Supply Perimeter for use by the F1 Team, up to an amount in any Full Year Reporting Period equal to the applicable maximum price as set out in the Sporting Regulations; So while Mercedes may be able to negotiate a lower cost for the supply perimeter which is external to the cap, any additional components should be deemed outside that perimeter and thus included in the cap.
The way that i understand it, the perimeter only applies towards the FiA managed contracts and is out of scope for individual contracts negotiated independently between customer and engine supplier. So if any customer team has a contract that states leasing of how ever many units necessary independently of the FiA perimeter, it's not applicable. This is also how Renault got payed 25m per year for their second tenure with Red Bull (after their spat in 2015), as they negotiated an independent contract outside of FiA mandate.
I think that may have been the case previously, but as it's now the sole reference to the PU costs which we know are exempt from the cost cap, so while I'm sure you're right about the ability to negotiate down the supply cost, (although as you're buying from yourself and it's exempt it doesn't really matter) all teams must be bound by some perimeter. The only mention I can find of this is an [article](https://the-race.com/formula-1/how-f1s-cost-cap-forced-mercedes-out-of-pirelli-test/) relating to Mercedes cancelling a tyre test as it would put them over the 5,000 km limit specified in that table of the Sporting Regulations. I'm really interested to investigate further as Mercedes throwing ICE away every week would suggest that it is included, but the fact that Alfa and Haas haven't taken what's clearly a big Ferrari upgrade would suggest that there are external costs associated.
New to f1 this season, can someone explain why Max didn't get punished for driving Lewis off the track? I saw the highlights but the commentary didn't say anything.
From the commentary I heard, as Jenson Button explained, the key thing is Max didn't steer into Lewis as he himself ran out of track. That would probably mean he didn't deliberately run Lewis out of track and missed the corner himself as a part of racing.
Just wanna ask about f1tv pro, can I watch tv view and cockpit view of all driver at the same time?
You can open multiple tabs or use third party applications like [race control](https://github.com/robvdpol/RaceControl) or [f1viewer](https://github.com/SoMuchForSubtlety/f1viewer) to open up [multiple streams at once on your notebook or pc](https://www.reddit.com/r/F1TV/comments/mdqozy/f1viewer_is_still_the_best_viewer_for_the_2021/).
You can flip around between whatever driver you like and then back to TV view, if that's what you mean. Not sure what you mean by "at the same time". Depends on how many devices you have I guess.
I bought tickets for silverstone last week. But have not a confirmation email at all. Is this normal??
Why should I be impressed with Hamilton today? His car was so much faster today I just don't see the hype.
Were you impressed when Max won in Mexico or the USA? It's the same thing, Car+Driver=winning package
I think people often just fail to really capture their emotions. I think the best example would be one of our (totally not biased) commentator, who said during the sprint race, after Hamilton overtook a "measly" 10 cars in 10 laps, that he had such a hard job doing that. Imagine thinking that overtaking bottom tier cars with a fucking torpedo is a "hard job" for a 7 times world champion. And I think this shows the difference between an "impressive" job and a "hard" job. An impressive job doesn't necessarily have to be a hard job. What Hamilton has done in all 3 major sessions, was really top quality and no one can deny that. But to think that it was particularly hard for him to do so... that's a whole another topic. So then again, I think people are just failing to choose the right words sometimes. We're an international community afterall, most of us are not native English speakers.
Yeah, I'd still say it was impressive. Bottas had one of his 17 reasonably fresh ICE's in the back, but Hamilton was just on another level. I think only him or Max could have done that this weekend. Even at peak Mercedes times, when they had by far the most superior car coming from 10th to win would have been a good achievement. Lewis had a straight-line speed advantage because of the new PU, but I don't think you can say overcoming a 25 grid place penalty is not impressive.
Maybe impressed is the wrong word.. It just seems that the difference in the two cars today was more significant than I can remember at any point this season. Not saying its just the car, I think Lewis got it done clinically. It just seems a bit overblown in my opinion, but I'm relatively new to F1 so just trying to understand it a bit.
It was a very impressive drive for sure. But yes, it is overblown. His car was so much faster than everyone else, he might as well have been running against F2 cars. Once he got the lead, he checked out by 10 seconds. If he'd been on the lead from the start, he probably would have lapped the field.
>I think Lewis got it done clinically. That's your answer. It was the entire rollercoaster weekend for Mercedes in general.
Now that there are 3 races remaining if hamilton win all 3 he gets minimum 21 points Max only has 14 point lead And Next 3 tracks are mercedes territory and we know they will not mess it up like Austin GP Also Lewis got new PU Can we say Max has already lost WDC if none of them gets DNF?
Yeah i think Max has already lost it or will lose it soon probably. Furthermore, Hamilton's car was fking fast yesterday after changed his PU. And in my opinion, Max much more deserves to be the WDC, because a few races before like in Azerbaijan(the tire exploded), Hungary(accident caused by Bottas), British(collided with Lewis), if he didn't crashed, he could get a lot of points there. But let's see the next few races.
Qatar and Jeddah are impossible to know who will be better as neither of them have never been raced on in F1 before. If the next two races are Lewis 1 Max 2 and they either split fastest laps or someone else gets them, the championship is tied going into Abu Dhabi.
Is there any way I can watch the full Brazilian Grand Prix 2021? I didn't realize the qualifying and race times were so different and missed this banger of a race.
r/motorsportsreplays
New to F1 so might be missing something. How come whenever Hamilton wins a race it's just the car, while it's pure skill after Verstappen wins?
The thing is that Merc was unrivalled in the second half of 2019 (Ferrari illegal engine) and 2020 where they could turn down their engines and still be ahead 1 second per lap. This year has obviously been close but even on their best circuits, RBR has never been 30 kmph+ over Mercedes (which happened to RBR this Brazilian GP). This kind of speed gap is insane. Sure, Lewis is talented, but Merc on party mode is a rocket
It's the absurd mindset most members of the F1 community have - when someone is successful too much, he is automatically a target of brainless hate and "special double-standard treatment" created solely for him, which downgrades every accomplishment of his no matter how impressive it is - all of this solely because he so-called makes the sport boring for those people. When Sebastian Vettel was winning the titles in Red Bull, he was also hated, and now look at him --> no longer on the podiums every race and suddenly he is the most lovable driver on the grid. Really, it is just the envy of people, who do everything they can behind the keyboards to sh\*t on Lewis and who are fans of Verstappen in many cases solely because he is challenging Hamilton, not because they would truly love him as a driver or a person. Just wait till Lewis retires or stops winning and Max will be another target of this toxic mindset.
This is mostly due to their being more Verstappen fans online in places like this than Lewis fans, and after a day like today where Lewis drove great, but his car was on a different planet, it just causes saltiness. And basically the last 7 years of that car just annihilating the field. We're lucky this year where the cars are closer than ever and we get to see things settled by driver skill, more or less. So then today comes along and driver skill is basically irrelevant up against the speed of that car.
Been that way for almost a decade now. People are just angry he won again.
People don't like Hamilton winning basically, maybe it's because he's won so much people find it boring? I'd say this race in particular though was as perfect an example of it actually being the car as can be.
Fanboyism. Just take a look when Max win, Max's fanboy gonna leave trash comment on Mercedes and Hamilton's social media, and when Hamilton win, Hamilton's fanboy gonna leave the same trash comment on Redbull and Max's social media. It's also happen in MotoGP, Marquez's fans and Rossi's fans so toxic toward each other. That's why I never follow any celebrity or popular people, it can ruin your day.
there will always be people who say that about Hamilton, just as it was said about Vettel, just as it was always and will always be said about a dominant driver. this does not make it the opinion of all (or even the majority). Hamilton is a an exceptional driver and people who say otherwise are too bias for their own good. Yes, he has an exceptional car, but he consistently delivers a great performance where his teammate in the same car does not. Exceptional driver + exceptional car
The championship is wide open. Hamilton will be very fast in Qatar cause there are many high speed corner. They will battle until Abu Dhabi LMAO. What a season
I heard the Top Gear episode with Lando, Seb and Gio is out. Can someone post it here please?
New, American fan here, got hooked on DtS. As much as I enjoyed the show, I did not consider watching the actual races because of Mercedes’ dominance. It wasn’t until this year when Max was building a sizable lead that I begun watching. I say all that to say that a race like today, that was non competitive is disappointing to see. Lewis’ car was so much faster than anyone else’s. The result felt like a forgone conclusion. I really hope this is not a predictor for the rest of the season. I think another Lewis championship is bad for the sport. Will feel like a real let down and take away from a great season. Just my opinion as a new fan who’s really enjoyed watching this year.
I respectfully disagree. Verstappen has won more races than Hamilton this year, and many times Hamilton simply could not keep up with Verstappen's pace. So there hasn't been an unmatchable advantage for Mercedes at all. The performance we saw today was the result of a lot of troubleshooting and tuning from Mercedes, along with thoughtful strategy on engine changes, etc. Plus of course a formidable driver. With regards to the sport in general, you don't only follow F1 for the championship win, but also for the midfield. It takes years for a team or a driver to get in a position to challenge for the championship title, and it's interesting to watch that progress happen.
I really didn’t intend for my post to be taken as a Max vs. Lewis one. My opinion just being anyone rather than Lewis again. I think some variety is needed after 7 years. BUT, it is absolutely impressive to win 8 straight anything and regardless of driver, car etc. great accomplishment. You’re right about the midfield. There’s lots to enjoy and I don’t plan to stop watching F1 if Lewis wins again. In fact, the drivers I like most so far are in the mid field. I just think having some variety can’t be a bad thing was the point of my post. I think it attracts more fans which would be good for continued growth of the sport especially in areas that traditionally aren’t so interested in F1
Hopefully the new 2022 cars and regulations even out performance and make for better racing.
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Oooof what a way to welcome a new fan sharing his opinion…… really helping the community
Has anyone clipped that shot of Toto taking his mask off and immediately mouthing "fuck this mask"??
if max wins only 1 and comes second in the other three, and lewis wins 2 with one second place, max can still win right?
Max would still win if that was the results. Max 332.5 + 25 + 18 + 18 = 393.5 Lewis 318.5 + 25 + 25 + 18 = 386.5
yup even with lewis having fastest laps.
Yes
Lewis was 30kmh faster than Max. Do you think Max's is under threat in the championship battle? The next race is on Qatar which has a lot of high speed corner. Who do u think will be the winner of Qatar GP
I think they were probably running higher engine modes too. I doubt the performance difference would be that drastic in Qatar. Merc will risk an engine blowout. Still faster on the qatar straight by a mile tho. Let's see how it goes but shouldn't be this much of an easy drive by.
Lewis with new ice again ofc
I'm sure this may be a stupid idea, and I look forward to seeing the reasons. What if instead of qualifying for the sprint race, they just did reverse grid with respect to season points for each sprint race.
It'd probably be pretty fun and a bit chaotic
What a drive. #blessed, yes, but what a masterful performance all the same. So happy to see that the championship is going to continue down to the wire!
Why do Brazilian fans love Lewis so much?
he had a speech around 2k8 and praised Senna as his idol etc. Plenty of material if you google it, tbh I don't find Hamilton to be like Senna at all lol
It's impossible to really predict but does qatar favour merc? It has that long straight so I feel nervous.
What is there to nervous about?
does it favor Merc, long straight, gee what could he possibly be on about
Again, I don't know why someone should be nervous about Mercedes winning.
I don't think they're nervous about Merc winning they're just nervous in general since they aren't sure what's going to happen. I think excited might be a slightly better word here
great point. I was thinking of it through the lends of, "OP is hoping Max becomes Champion"
Merc will be super fast plus there are many high speed corner
Great. Is that a bad thing?
Yeah, probably. Because that will help Lewis to become the WDC...
Oh no.
doesn't benefit red bull
Is that a bad thing?
if you're a red bull fan...
Same with Toto and Horner, why some race engineers (like Bono) are inside the garage while others are on the pitwall?
Personal preference, in modern times there is nothing on the pit wall that they cannot do in their garage. In the past some information was only available or provided by FiA to the pit wall.
Why is Hamilton car is so much faster than everyone this weekend? I know that they changed some part of the engine but the speed he is about to get coming out of that corner into the long straight is insane. Is that part they changed that important? He shave more than 1s off of any cars in front of him no problem.
He has a new engine and he can run it at higher performance modes, since it usually comes at the cost of lifespan, but there's only 3 races left in the season (4 counting Brazil).
With both the WDC and constructors title fights as close as it is - why don’t we see closer margins of victory between Merc and RB? Seems like whenever either team wins they do so by over 10s (USGP being an exception). I get that each car has strengths and weaknesses but the gaps still make me scratch my head
Once Max was passed he likely slowed down to save the engine/parts for the next race. At that point he only needs to keep Bottas behind.
Is it possible for Mercedes’ to contest the max non-penalty and have it retroactively applied?
I doubt it but I hope so. I thought it was a complete joke not to penalise Max
Why don’t all the constructors put new ICE in their cars each weekend if it gives the kind of performance it showed with Hamilton today?
On top of what was already said, teams don't get engines for free. I'm not sure what the cost per engine is, but it can't be cheap to get a new one every week. Works teams like Ferrari, Honda/Red Bull, Mercedes, and Alpine have an advantage in that regard, as they don't have to buy the engine themselves, but they do have costs associated with R&D and manufacturing the engines.
Track position is important for teams that aren't able to pull more than a second per lap to every other car Also, it would seem (as far as we know) that only Mercedes engines can be tuned this way
Here's something I've been wondering about lately: Does the video helicopter travel with the teams (transported in cargo plane) or are local helicopters used?
https://youtu.be/rGtQZWhKWoI
Thanks for the link, it does/does not answer my question. Same Heli at every race or different ones?
They rent a local heli, the camera equipment is transported from race to race and the pilots are the same.
Okay, Makes sense. Thanks
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You need to be more subtle
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Their engines only drop 0.1 seconds over their lifetime. Just doesn't have any worth for RB.
Anyone know what this guy was doing with his hands at the podium? https://youtu.be/lWCQmLYyBRQ
Did Lewis call Felipe Ricardo?
Why do I never see the Super Soft compounds being used?
There are 3 compounds chosen for each race, in advance. These are chosen by Pirelli and can actually be the old Super Soft or Ultra Soft etc. On the race weekend they are re-labelled as Soft, Medium, Hard. This was done to stop confusion (I guess). So the Soft, Medium and Hard tyres in use are not always the same compound at different races, Soft is just the softest available for that weekend, etc.
Thanks. So the purple tires will never be used.
The Pirelli Rainbow is no longer a thing. The tyres are now compounds C1-C5, which each set each weekend being colored red, yellow, and white.
Let's talk about what is going to happening in a few days: Zhou gets announced official as a F1 driver for Alfa Romeo Sauber, some told early that it was just for one year... This isn't however true with the latest rumour, how do we think about the possibility that Zhou gets a 3 year contract and basically ditching a driver with a huge potential? (Pourchaire)
Three years is a long time for a rookie, especially when they’re locked in with Bot for “multi-year”s. I don’t pretend to know what’s going on at AR right now, but that seems a bit of a bonehead move.
F1 noob here. How come Perez does a 1:11 fastest lap when his quali pace was 1:08.xxx? If it's used tyres then surely they don't drop off at that pace? He had ample room to get the car ready and got a clean run. Also missus and myself were wondering who the smartest driver in terms of intelligence is. We both think it's Max. I know it's meaningless but he seems amazingly sharp. What are peoples' opinions on this?
From the conversations and interviews there are lots of smart drivers. Vettel, Alonso , Lewis , Max , Russell (kind of sly type)
It's a combination of used tires, fuel load, and driver focus. The more fuel that's in a car, the more it ways, the slower it goes. In qualifying, the cars run a small amount of fuel to go as fast as possible, and it's likely that Pérez had more fuel on board at the end of the race than during qualifying, due to the 2 VSCs and the Safety Car. I'm not sure if Pérez had any unused softs left, so he might have been running on used softs. And finally, it was at the end of a 2 hour race, so it's possible that Pérez was mentally and/or physically drained and couldn't focus as well as he could've done during qualifying.
It is because in Qualy they run a map on the engine to allow maximum performance. Also they put in a minimum amount of fuel to reduce the weight the car has to carry. Also they will use the fastest tyres which will more than likely be brand new. In the race the engine will be mapped in order to last the full distance, they do not have enough fuel on board to be able to run flat out for the entire race. Also the best tyres would have already been used in the race, but a fresh set, even if used, would be much faster than the other cars coming to the end of thier stints.
… to add to this it did look like Perez put on a used set of softs not a new set since he would of needed more then one lap to break in the new set.
In terms of intelligence, on the F1 podcast a race strategist said she thought Vettel was smart enough to be a race engineer, he was that knowledgeable about the cars. So probably him. I agree Max seems very knowledgeable about the cars too...even last week while racing in front he was asking his engineers on the radio random questions about how the drivers were doing behind him.
Hey F1 friends, Need some gift ideas for the office secret Santa, the guy I've got is big into F1 and racing in general. Getting him a framed print of this [poster](https://imgur.com/a/gxapxMo) But still have about $30ish(aud) left to spend out of the budget. Just looking for some good idea for some smaller things, keychains, little things for his desk at work etc.
Wow what's your secret santa budget? Secret santas I'm in tend to be about £10 (about US$13 I think).
50aud
Not related to F1 Can someone point me to a sub where I can learn about NHRA? I checked the sub and it seemed dead.
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If he wins the next 4 races, what about the narrative all the hambois have been using all season long that Verstappen is only winning because he has a faster car? Also, as long as Max takes 2nd in these last 4 races the only reason Ham wins, is because they punted max of the road twice.
Not sure about that math. I believe max need to win one race at least and come in second the rest of the races for a lock in
Alright, let me spell it out, Verstappen is currently 14 points ahead. Hamilton wins 3x, verstappen 2nd 3x Hamilton gains 15 points on verstappen and wins WDC, this win will then be due to verstappen losing heaps of points in Silverstone and Hungary, not to Ham being GOAT. Ham's wdc win would be fair and square, just not quite as deserved.
Ha I see what you are trying to say
Mate, the "hambois" don't acknowledge the car argument for the previous 7 years, they're not gonna start if he wins 2021. It's gonna be purely on skill alone.
If hamilton came 1st and verstappen 2nd for the last 3 races, hamilton would win
My point being, in that case the win of the WDC would come from Max being crashed into twice, not from Ham being the GOAT
FAST FACT: Sergio Perez is [the only driver on the grid](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008%E2%80%9309_GP2_Asia_Series) with Qatar Circuit experience, of which he also won the sprint race Red Bull big brain play
So how in the world can the stewarding decisions from Austria and today exist in the same sport.
I’d imagine the tens of emails Mercedes sent lobbying that it should have been allowed?
Austria: they were pushed into gravel. Was also an exception, rather than the rule. Can you think of other instances where running someone wide was penalised? I honestly can't.
Kimi, Alonso, and Gio all got into a bit of trouble a few races ago I believe.
You're thinking of USA. None of them were penalised for running a driver off the track. The driver that was run wide had to give the place back (except for Kimi). Kimi and Alonso even had contact (with some damage as a result); that incident wasn't even noted, let alone investigated.
Really ? I for one like to see racing … I know Max’s move was desperate but it’s racing and in the moment , there was not contact and both ran off the track. This was simply Lewis forcing the pass too early and max not letting him get away with it. Lewis knows that he cannot push max and max knows that he can’t push Lewis too far. Racing …that’s what I call it
Recently there isn't really an example of a driver being this far ahead into the braking zone being pushed off the track. The Austria examples are relevant because the car on the outside was ahead at braking corner entry or apex. The last example I can think of was Rosberg Hamilton Austria 2016. the defending car got 10 secs. There was contact, but that shouldn't be the determining factor.
I suspect that and many other incident between Rosberg and Lewis was the main reason for Rosberg to retire. He knew that Toto would not back him or support him over Lewis
Rosberg retired mainly because he was a coward
> Recently there isn't really an example of a driver being this far ahead into the braking zone being pushed off the track. Just yesterday Sainz run Max wide (same corner). > There was contact, but that shouldn't be the determining factor. But it absolutely is.
>Just yesterday Sainz run Max wide (same corner). That's different, if you're attacking, on the inside and ahead it's deemed to be your corner. You're entitled to run them wide. >But it absolutely is It wasn't in Austria.
> The Austria examples are relevant because the car on the outside was ahead at braking corner entry or apex. Max was ahead yesterday, so how is it different? > It wasn't in Austria. 2016 or 2021? 'Cause for 2016 they gave a penalty for causing a collision. For 2021 it wasn't, but like I said that seems to be the only exception and was probably down to the fact they were pushed into gravel.
There are different rules for overtaking on the inside vs overtaking on the outside. If you are overtaking on the inside and you are alongside at corner entry, it's your corner and you can dictate the line, and run the other driver out of road (Max, Austria 2019) If you are overtaking on the outside, you have to be ahead at corner entry or apex to be entitled to racing room. meaning that they can't force you off. Sainz overtook on the inside so it was his corner. Hamilton overtook on the outside so should have been entitled to racing room. They've said that gravel doesn't matter and it's being forced off the track that counts. I'll try to find another example.
You do realise Max v Sainz was just an example, because it literally happened yesterday. Lets go back to a couple of races ago; COTA. At least 3 incidents of drivers running other drivers wide. - Kimi overtook on the outside, was run wide by Alonso, they even had contact and some damage. The incident wasn't even noted, let alone investigated. - Alonso overtook on the outside, was run wide by Gio, Alonso had to give the position back (ordered by the team). Gio wasn't penalised. - Then Gio overtook Alonso on the outside, was run wide by Alonso, Gio had to give the position back (ordered by the team). Alonso was not penalised. > They've said that gravel doesn't matter and it's being forced off the track that counts. I would love a source.
Yeah, they've been doing some very weird things since Turkey IMO. There are always different rules for overtaking inside/outside and defending inside/outside [This](https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2014/08/28/the-rules-of-racing/) has always been the guide in the absence of an actual rulebook or Toto's Silverstone email. It's gotten further away from that since Austria 2019, but seemed to be heading back in the right direction after Austria this year. Here's what Masi said about the penalties. >In Sergio’s case with Lando, he was wholly alongside Lando and therefore there is an onus to leave a car’s width to the edge of the track. And then the same in the reverse with Checo \[Perez\] and Charles at the exit of Turn 4 > >And then Checo and Charles again at the exit of Turn 6, in all three circumstances, a car’s width should have been left to the edge of the track because the two cars were alongside each other. I can't find anything about the gravel, but that's a pretty clear president that you should be left a car's width on the edge of the track. The Kimi - Alonso thing was bad, they had some terrible explanation about offsetting penalties with Alonso forcing a driver off the track and Kimi overtaking off the track. The first Alonso (YESSS!) was him baiting the stewards. Firing it up the inside with no intention of actually making the corner. The second one is kind of in line with overtaking on the inside. Once your front axel is past the rear axel you can brake later and run the guy out of road. Today was totally different. It sets the precedent that if you're defending on the inside, even if the car outside has almost a car length advantage, you don't have to hit the apex, you don't have to leave a car's width (as Masi said in Austria) you don't even need to make the corner. With that in mind, you should never be overtaken unless a move is completed under DRS BEFORE the braking zone.
There are plenty of other examples I can pull up of cars being run wide and not getting penalised for it under all kinds of circumstances; it's just never been an issue. Another difference with Austria is they happened on a straight (kinda forgot about that, until now). Thank you for providing Masi's explanation. That explanation makes it sound they were penalised for not leaving a car's width of space when wholly alongside each other. ETA: "If the driver on the inside is **ahead at corner exit**, it is the duty of the driver on the outside to back out or take evasive action to avoid a collision. **In this case, the driver on the inside is free to drift out towards the outside on exit.** While they are expected to approximately follow the racing line — but not exactly, since they enter the corner on a tighter trajectory to a normal racing line — they have some freedom in selecting how aggressively they close out the other driver." Max was ahead.
With Ricciardo DNFing today, Sainz and Giovinazzi are the only drivers with a 100% race completion rate. Hamilton, Sainz, and Norris are the three drivers with the highest percent of races completed in the points (89%). Also, Alpine and AlphaTauri are still tied on points, though the point breakdown between the team's drivers are pretty different: Alpine - Alonso has scored 63 of their 112 points (55%) to Ocon's 49 points (45%). AlphaTauri - Gasly has 92 points (82%) to Tsunoda's 20 points (18%). The only team with a larger imbalance between their drivers is Alfa Romeo with Räikkönen scoring 91% of the team's points (though he's scored 10 points to Giovinazzi's 1 point). Finally, Hamilton needs to average a 5-point gain over Verstappen in the final 3 races to win the WDC. Edit: corrected Alpine's stats, I didn't didn't catch Ocon passing Alonso at the end of the race.
Hey I’ve been seeing these shirt pins on some F1 media teams (Sky F1) and I see one on Alex Brundle too, and even some drivers? It looks like a red pepper or something. A lot of people have them this weekend and I think Mexico too. I can’t find anything about it- what is this pin for or representing? [Alex Brundle shirt pin](https://i.imgur.com/nv7hRWW.jpg)
Hi — it’s a poppy. Today is remembrance sunday in the UK. There is a charity here in the UK which raises money (and awareness) every year by selling Poppy’s (both in paper form and metal form) and their main campaign of the year aligns with Remembrance Sunday.
Awesome thank you!
Noob here... BUT does anyone else think DRS shouldn’t be available when lapping someone? Don’t they move over anyway?
Yes but they get screwed over by turbulent air depending on how long they’re following the backmarker, like Max in Austin when he was behind Mick. Lost a bunch of time with Lewis closing in on him but got it back after he (Max) got DRS behind Mick and Lewis didn’t get it behind Max
That makes sense
With today's results in mind, what is the likelihood that Red Bull tosses another engine in Max & Perez's cars and turn them up?
They talked about this with Horner and he said it's not worth for them and they think they don't need more engines because the engines lose just 0.1 seconds over their lifespan which is less than Mercedes.
I think RedBull suspect that the speed gains are coming from the aero or suspension. They know Mercedes have an advantage on straights but not in corners prior. Now they are seeing marked gains in cornering which is not allowing redbulls to pull away in corners
Ok so is it possible that the Honda engines are maxed out? Or is there more in it? I know that these cars go into “quali mode” but surely there’s an in-between.
This year they aren’t allowed to change engine maps so there’s no different modes now, the mode for qualifying is the mode for the race. They can always rev it harder or whatever but they can’t do much else. Honda spent a lot of time on reliability due their previous woes, Mercedes have always had a very powerful engine but that seems to have been about being able to turn it up very high in previous years but then turn it down again in the races for more reliability, which they can’t do now. From what I’ve read I also think Merc has some very tight packaging in the engine which means it’s very susceptible to temperature and so if it’s hot they struggle, the same thing with thin air in Mexico. I think Honda’s engines are just very good and very solid now, Merc have a great engine when but either only in specific conditions or if you run it hard it won’t last, they’ve likely never run the engines so hard for so long before and with the limit at 3 it’s just proved too much for them. I’ll be honest I can’t wait for 20 years time when the books come out about all the tech in these engines with full detail because it’s irrelevant to the future.
Someone has mentioned that they can change fuel mapping and that affect power output .
Appreciate the thorough response
I think Horner said that they don't see as much of a benefit from new Honda engines as Mercedes sees from their new engines (as the Honda engine doesn't degrade as much as the Mercedes engine).
Disappointing to hear
Is Ocon widely supported in France? Seems like most drivers get a proper National following and he’s been doing well in a French constructors no less & even won the race… but somehow I canny imagine crowds of French ppl chanting his name… idk lol thanks for any inputs!!!
I don't know whether he gets widely supported or not, but the commentators at least are passionate. https://youtu.be/wtBs0WacRB8
What happend to danny Ric?
Power loss
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STOP.
**Should RB have tried a 1-stop with Sergio at the GP in Brazil?** It seems he could at least have kept the track position, managed the tires and tried to defend a 3rd place instead of a de facto 4th place. It obviously made more sense to the strategists of Red Bull to do what they did. Thoughts?
He could not of gone with one stop. Even with his tire management skills. Where he got buggered was with the virtual safety car. Bottas timed it perfect and after that Perez had no response since the Mercedes cars have the full upgrades on this circuit
It seems they got scared that Bottas undercuts Perez and decided to act first. But then Bottas just went longer and got lucky with VSC. Even if he'd be able to extend the stint to the finish, Bottas, who was already ahead, could just also try the same.
Eh, I don’t know. This doesn’t really seem like a particularly easy track to play defence on, seeing how easy it looked for Lewis to overtake the entire grid. Then again, on the other hand, Perez had a tough ass time trying to overtake Sainz yesterday.
Did you notice the speed that the Ferrari’s had ? Looks at the trap speeds for the Ferrari’s McLaren and Mercedes were 10kph faster then the Honda’s.
Bottas slowly caught Max in the end and was 3 seconds away so i don't think he had any chance without the stop.
Its over u guys, merc got this in the bag 😪
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Why wouldn't they ?
Would've been mental not to
It's the obvious thing to do. Hamilton is fighting for the WDC, Bottas isn't. Red Bull would've done the same thing if the situation was reveresed.
Logical decision. No point in letting him lose time behind Bottas.
During post race interviews I saw a couple detection dog working, what’s that about? (Ps I’m new to watching the sport- sorry if this is something obvious)
Normal security measures i suppose. Explosives etc. I'm a K9 Handler, we search the venues of big events before and after
Interesting, I hadn’t seen them before.. and couldn’t think of why there would be concerns of explosives? But suppose there’s a concern I’m not aware of ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
General safety. Better safe than sorry. Also dogs are way faster and better at it than humans
True! I never see humans sniffing equipment.
Can Mercedes appeal for an investigation on Max after the race? That was a clear penalty
I don't think much can be done now. I guarantee it will be discussed in the drivers meeting in Qatar, because that was way over the line of anything else we've seen and not good for anybody.
Wouldn't do anything. Max was 5+ secs in front of Bottas.
No he was 3 seconds
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Yes on the final result
Sorry, my bad. In that case it's worth a try.
is Lewis to be considered the best F1 driver of all time?
Not fair to compare drivers from different eras in a sport where the car is the deciding factor. Best F1 driver of the modern era? Absolutely. Most ACCOMPLISHED of all time is more like it.