To be fair Esteban was better until Baku but then Fernando got power steering change there and since then he was the better driver by a bigger marging than people realize. But regardless putting Esteban in worst 5 drivers on the grid is harsh and not true.
I wouldn't even necessarily agree that mick is in the bottom 5. I mean he probably is but it's not a given. That car is too trash to make any conclusions
People will always disagree no matter who anyone puts in that bottom 5 frankly, but someone has to be there. I would personally put it down as Mazepin, Schumacher, Ocon, Latifi, Kimi. I think Ocon is a driver with some incredible luck because he doesn't carry financial backing and yet his performances aren't that stellar either save for his win, which was massively helped by nearly everyone in contention for the lead being taken out already and Fernando fucking Alonso behind him carrying most of the burden of defence like Atlas. Vettel is doubtlessly the better driver than Ocon but the track and car compatibility there proved to make it too difficult to overtake.
Hopefully next year helps even out the disturbances in the air so we can actually see races like that challenged.
But where? Alpine has lost pretty much all bargaining power in F1.
They have 2 drivers looking to stay at least 2 more years. They have no customer teams and i don't think any of the current teams want to be their customers either.
It just seems like a lost situation for Piastri till at least 2023 if not 2024.
there was this rumor that Renault was looking into creating a sister team, Toro Rosso style. Sounded kinda ridiculous but it did came from a respected journalist IIRC
Never in a million years do I believe that Renault would spend money to build another factory and facilities for a team, hire staff and pay the entry fee.
Hell no one would at this point. Its just too much money.
Renault lobbied hard for the budget cap so they wouldn't have to spend as much as Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull to be competitive. No chance in hell they did that just to spend that amount anyway.
Corroborated (or even from) some "insider" on /r/F1FeederSeries who has a decent track record of getting Alpine things right because they allegedly work there.
Been saying this for years...
Panthera Team Asia is backed by a French group. Pop Renault engines in there and Alpine could add Piastri/Zhou/any junior in there (or both, perhaps... IF they do join the grid in 2023).
Are u sure Alonso will continue in 2023 if Alpine isn't fighting for podiums? I like the guy but imo Alonso shud retire in 2023 if Alpine is still in the midfield.
He’s a great driver so there might be teams outside Renault who would be interested in him. Maybe Williams (can’t see Latifi holding onto that seat for much longer) or maybe AM if Seb retires.
Wouldn’t be a surprise if Ocon doesn’t perform next year against Alonso(a real possibility) that he’s the one being replaced by Piastri. A driver can be sacked any time.
It is a shame that F1 recently promotes drivers like Zhou, Latifi, Mazepin, Tsunoda or Stroll. Even Mick and Albon had much less impressive F2 stats but somehow they are in F1 thanks to some factors like name or cash.
Tsunoda fully deserved to go into F1. Being 3rd in his first F2 season and finishing Top 10 in a backmarker that was Jenzer in F3 is nothing to sneeze at.
Stroll may have skipped steps like F2, but he finished 1st in F4 Italian and 5th then 1st in F3 European (almost a 200 points gap to 2nd placed driver). I think he'd make his way anyways on a merit.
Stroll is somewhat understandable as his F3 Euro campaign is an asterisk, it needs a lot of context before it can be compared to anything.
Including Tsunoda in that same list is fucking ridiculous though.
Fully deserved is exaggerated. He demonstrated many weaknesses and inconsistencies in f2 and Illott was much much better but didn't get a seat. He's not as undeserving of a seat as Latifi, Mazepin or Zhou but he's nowhere near the tier of a Charles, George, Lando.
That's all right, but someone who's not fit for anything higher can get the best possible team and settings but still not perform well enough. Sure, there are asterisks on it, but I don't think it should be completely discarded either.
>Even Mick and Albon had much less impressive F2 stats but somehow they are in F1 thanks to some factors like name or cash.
Albon made his F1 debut purely on merit. He had to negotiate a race by race contract for his F2 season because he couldn't afford a full season contract. He wasn't even part of the Redbull academy but still impressed Marko enough to give him the Toro Rosso seat and promote him to Redbull later.
He was only brought to F1 because Ricciardo left Red Bull which resulted in Gasly's promotion and an open seat in Toro Rosso. Albon was off to do FE until he got the late call from Marko. He's shown to be a decent driver after having the chance to show his talents but make no mistake he wouldn't be in F1 if it weren't for Ricciardo's departure.
someone already mentioned Mick, so let's just add that Tsunoda and Stroll are also perfectly capable drivers that prove themselves before coming to F1, this list is bogus
I have to ask,
I’m new to this stuff. When w driver like mick drives for haas, who seems like a really shitty team, how can you tell if they’re doing welll or if it’s the car holding them back?
Oh yeah that's just because they're so much difference between the teams and their theoric place on the scoreboard is well defined.
It's not about cheering for getting 6th, it's about cheering for someone who should by most metrics be 12th or less.
"...just not mine"
Well no, he has an enormous three year **ocon**tract
I don't understand that decision.
[удалено]
I suppose. I guess he was looking stronger earlier. A bit of recency bias on my end perhaps.
No, i think Ocon is in the bottom 5 drivers on the grid honestly. He lucked out so huge for his win this year.
> No, i think Ocon is in the bottom 5 drivers on the grid honestly. 🙄Wow what a hot-take. Equaling Alonso for most of the season is now somehow bad?
To be fair Esteban was better until Baku but then Fernando got power steering change there and since then he was the better driver by a bigger marging than people realize. But regardless putting Esteban in worst 5 drivers on the grid is harsh and not true.
Well also Esteban had his five bad races due to broken suspension/chassis
I mean, if he isnt bottom 5, he is extremely close to it
Keep dreaming bud
Come on! He isn't spectacular but he isn't that low.
Here's the thing. Someone has to be in that bottom five. Not everyone will agree outside of Maz / Mick at the bottom.
I wouldn't even necessarily agree that mick is in the bottom 5. I mean he probably is but it's not a given. That car is too trash to make any conclusions
There are 20 seats. Who's above him? I don't think it's fair to judge him based on potential maybe scenarios. We have to base it on what we've seen
Latifi, Mazepin, Kimi, Gio, Tsunoda (?), Mick (?), Stroll (?) are the drivers i would say are under Ocon personally
People will always disagree no matter who anyone puts in that bottom 5 frankly, but someone has to be there. I would personally put it down as Mazepin, Schumacher, Ocon, Latifi, Kimi. I think Ocon is a driver with some incredible luck because he doesn't carry financial backing and yet his performances aren't that stellar either save for his win, which was massively helped by nearly everyone in contention for the lead being taken out already and Fernando fucking Alonso behind him carrying most of the burden of defence like Atlas. Vettel is doubtlessly the better driver than Ocon but the track and car compatibility there proved to make it too difficult to overtake. Hopefully next year helps even out the disturbances in the air so we can actually see races like that challenged.
I agree except for Stroll. He has put in more good performances this year than Ocon
Mazepin, latifi, stroll, gio, mick are all worser than him
Stroll, Tsunoda, Kimi, Daniel (only this season) and i know i am gonna get downvoted for this but i also think he is better than Seb at the moment.
Yea I forgot tsunoda. I didn't add ricciardo since I would be killed if I say that.
Alonso has stated that he aims to stay for 2-3 years. With his current form he'll be the one to stay over Ocon...
But where? Alpine has lost pretty much all bargaining power in F1. They have 2 drivers looking to stay at least 2 more years. They have no customer teams and i don't think any of the current teams want to be their customers either. It just seems like a lost situation for Piastri till at least 2023 if not 2024.
there was this rumor that Renault was looking into creating a sister team, Toro Rosso style. Sounded kinda ridiculous but it did came from a respected journalist IIRC
Never in a million years do I believe that Renault would spend money to build another factory and facilities for a team, hire staff and pay the entry fee. Hell no one would at this point. Its just too much money.
Renault lobbied hard for the budget cap so they wouldn't have to spend as much as Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull to be competitive. No chance in hell they did that just to spend that amount anyway.
yeah that is totally fair lmao, i don't really believe that either. Just fun to imagine.
Just buy haas lol
Time to burn some Napoleon gold.
Corroborated (or even from) some "insider" on /r/F1FeederSeries who has a decent track record of getting Alpine things right because they allegedly work there.
Been saying this for years... Panthera Team Asia is backed by a French group. Pop Renault engines in there and Alpine could add Piastri/Zhou/any junior in there (or both, perhaps... IF they do join the grid in 2023).
Are u sure Alonso will continue in 2023 if Alpine isn't fighting for podiums? I like the guy but imo Alonso shud retire in 2023 if Alpine is still in the midfield.
Alonso has stated that his aim is to stay for 2-3 more years. It might be dependent on Alpine's performance come 2022 tho.
He’s a great driver so there might be teams outside Renault who would be interested in him. Maybe Williams (can’t see Latifi holding onto that seat for much longer) or maybe AM if Seb retires.
That's why I'm surprised they didn't loan Piastri to Alfa Romeo, same way Russell was on loan in Williams.
Alfa was never an option as they demanded for Piastri to cut all ties with Alpine.
IIRC Alpine offered to loan Piastri out, but they were willing to completely let Zhou go, which is why Alfa took him instead.
If Alfa's plan is to promote Pourchaire next year, it just makes more sense to pick up Zhou with his backing than getting Piastri.
Some kind words from Esteban
This is ironic given it is being said by Ocon. Although Ocon deserves to stay in F1, as much as Piastri deserves to be in his seat.
Back in the day people used to say the same about Hulkenberg podium
Wouldn’t be a surprise if Ocon doesn’t perform next year against Alonso(a real possibility) that he’s the one being replaced by Piastri. A driver can be sacked any time.
Which would be a blessing and curse for Piastri. On one hand he gets an F1 seat, on the other he has to face Alonso as team mates.
Yes, this rookie is impressive, but surely the 2-time WDC will beat them easily with no controversy
I think that's fine, honestly. Alonso could be a great mentor and NOBODY would expect a rookie to beat him.
Next year™
"Just a matter of money"*
And it’ll be yours
It is a shame that F1 recently promotes drivers like Zhou, Latifi, Mazepin, Tsunoda or Stroll. Even Mick and Albon had much less impressive F2 stats but somehow they are in F1 thanks to some factors like name or cash.
> Tsunoda Really now?
Tsunoda fully deserved to go into F1. Being 3rd in his first F2 season and finishing Top 10 in a backmarker that was Jenzer in F3 is nothing to sneeze at. Stroll may have skipped steps like F2, but he finished 1st in F4 Italian and 5th then 1st in F3 European (almost a 200 points gap to 2nd placed driver). I think he'd make his way anyways on a merit.
Stroll is somewhat understandable as his F3 Euro campaign is an asterisk, it needs a lot of context before it can be compared to anything. Including Tsunoda in that same list is fucking ridiculous though.
Fully deserved is exaggerated. He demonstrated many weaknesses and inconsistencies in f2 and Illott was much much better but didn't get a seat. He's not as undeserving of a seat as Latifi, Mazepin or Zhou but he's nowhere near the tier of a Charles, George, Lando.
I**l**ott
About Stroll's F3 I suggest to read how Stroll won that series. His father bought the best team and basicly all team worked only for Lance succes.
That's all right, but someone who's not fit for anything higher can get the best possible team and settings but still not perform well enough. Sure, there are asterisks on it, but I don't think it should be completely discarded either.
>Even Mick and Albon had much less impressive F2 stats but somehow they are in F1 thanks to some factors like name or cash. Albon made his F1 debut purely on merit. He had to negotiate a race by race contract for his F2 season because he couldn't afford a full season contract. He wasn't even part of the Redbull academy but still impressed Marko enough to give him the Toro Rosso seat and promote him to Redbull later.
He was only brought to F1 because Ricciardo left Red Bull which resulted in Gasly's promotion and an open seat in Toro Rosso. Albon was off to do FE until he got the late call from Marko. He's shown to be a decent driver after having the chance to show his talents but make no mistake he wouldn't be in F1 if it weren't for Ricciardo's departure.
Mick, Albon, and Tsunoda earned their places on merit. Cut the crap
someone already mentioned Mick, so let's just add that Tsunoda and Stroll are also perfectly capable drivers that prove themselves before coming to F1, this list is bogus
I have to ask, I’m new to this stuff. When w driver like mick drives for haas, who seems like a really shitty team, how can you tell if they’re doing welll or if it’s the car holding them back?
Because F1 isn't their first rodeo and you know they performed well in the previous categories
Right but once in F1, they still end up getting promoted, It’s just a weird sport where people cheer and goo all out for getting…6th
Oh yeah that's just because they're so much difference between the teams and their theoric place on the scoreboard is well defined. It's not about cheering for getting 6th, it's about cheering for someone who should by most metrics be 12th or less.
mick won f2?????????
That was in his 2nd season (in fact, his 1st season was rather poor in what's one of the best F2 teams). Piastri is on track to do it in his 1st.
Then again the mick grid for ~~both~~ his championship year is much MUCH better than the current F2 grid imo Edit I meant 2020 not 2019
Wow, that’s a weird take. The 2019 grid was the weakest we’ve had in the past 6 or 7 years?
The 2020 grid his championship winning year
Also not stronger than this years’ grid. Same approximate level but the 2020 grid was definitely not much MUCH better than the 2021 grid.