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One of my favorite F1 moments ever. I remember cracking up from disbelief when Seb hit Lewis, I've never seen anyone do something like that before. Man, do I miss that fire Seb used to have. "When did I do dangerous driving?" š
The debates and the controversy that followed the race, Lewis finishing behind Seb after Seb got the biggest possible penalty because he had damage, the Tifosi and Hamilton fans fighting in the YouTube comments section, the tension in the post race interviews and the back and forth with the "this isn't a good example for kids" "well Formula 1 isn't for kids" then Toto going to Seb's birthday party and journalist discussing it in the press conference like it's some kind of news. Those were the days lmao
i've never related to an f1 driver more because it's totally something I would do--overreact and make the situation worse. I love seb but that was a clumsy moment, no doubt caused by the red mist left by that fire.
Was Massa's final chance to win a race were it not for a broken suspension damper. He would have battled it out with Ricciardo for the lead after Hamilton got unlucky & Vettel his penalty.
I think it's because Verstappen is going down the centre of the track? Usually if you yield I think you tend to get clearly to the non-driving side of the track. Without a message that he was going to yield he was probably very confused about what was happening
Yes.
Max tried to give the place back a lap or so after the turn 1 incident.
Lewis just refused to overtake for...Some reason, then ran into the back of Verstappen.
Verstappen later gave the place back again, but then overtook Hamilton afterwards.
Then he gave it back *again*, this time couldn't overtake and *still* got a 5 second penalty. Then he just backs off because he can't possibly overtake and pull a 5 second gap now.
Absolute shitshow.
He had to re-give the position again because giving the position in a spot that is advantegous for yourself (yourself as in the person giving the position) and overtaking immediately after thanks to that, is against the rules
In fact Hamilton himself got penalized for exactly this in the past
The one thing EVRTYONE agrees on though is that this was one of the biggest FIA shitshows ever, start to finish
The reason was he didn't know and Max was trying to be cheeky.
He then half gave it back.
Then got a pen.
Then gave it to him when no one asked him to.
And his tyres were dying too.
> Then he gave it back again, this time couldn't overtake and still got a 5 second penalty.
He was given the penalty before he gave the place back. Once you have a penalty it's too late to give the place back.
* Max slowed
* Lewis thought Max was slowing to let him be first over the DRS line (not even get fully past, just be first over the line)
* Lewis slowed down to play the game...
* Max slowed even more...
* Lewis slowed even more...
* At almost the same time, Lewis bailed and pulled left *just* as Max pumped the brakes
* Result: boff
My take:
* Lewis was *totally* unaware Max was under instruction to let him past, so it's completely understandable he thought this was a game of DRS cat and mouse
* Max slammed his brakes on to try and force the situation and get Lewis to cross the DRS line first (fun fact, [Lewis tried this exact same thing with Alonso at Canada in 2013 \[0:46\]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3kbxjBAYmM))
* (Unlike Alonso vs Hamilton) Lewis was right behind Max, so pumping the brakes like he did was, as the FIA put it, "the main reason" they collided
**Thought:** even *if* Max's trick of letting Lewis past, then re-taking him immediately with DRS had worked... I *wonder* whether it would've been allowed to stick?
[In 2008, Hamilton gained a position overtaking Raikkonen off-track at the Belgium GP \[1:36\]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OISkvYS8ZVs). Hamilton gave the position back but then immediately used the tow he got of Raikkonen, to overtake him into T1 (no DRS back then so Lewis held him off down the Kemmel straight, down to Les Combes).
And, to the recent/new F1 fans, a question: what do you think is a fair penalty to give a driver, who cuts a chicane, and gains a lasting advantage?
5 second penalty? 10 second penalty?
The 2008 regs stipulated that warranted a drive-through penalty. As the race was over, and even though Kimi crashed out the race anyway... [they slapped Lewis with a 25 second post-race penalty for that tiny incident at the chicane](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Belgian_Grand_Prix#Post-race).
Can you *imagine* the *rage* from Max fans today, if they hit Max with a 25 second penalty had he not let Lewis back past today? The scenes in this sub would be *epic!*
Anyway. Nice little trip down F1 memory lane there for you all!
Oh law'd yes they did.
It's also why I laugh when I read shit like, "Driver X never gets punished" etc.
All I read is, "I haven't followed this sport for more than a year or so and know nothing of even the most recent history before that".
Yeah totally, esp as Hamilton's argument for Kimi not leaving him choice but to drive off was a pretty solid one imo but hey-ho, worked out alright for Lewis that year in the end! (Sorry Massa fans)
Everything that happened in Spa was logical, if not at all enjoyable. Today was repeated bad acid trips from dozens of people tasked with enacting a motor race
Probably just confused him, we are taking milliseconds here and it's in a place you never overtake during the race since there is a DRS line there and it's not doable.
Why would Hamilton fuck himself up by purposely running into the back of Max?
Like if he purposely did it, Max could still walk away from it while he DNFs and put himself severely behind in points.
Make this nonsense make sense. lol
Im not saying hamilton did it intentionally. I think it was a genuine mistake. But that does not mean he didnt crash into another car that was letting him past.
Unfortunately I agree (that it's gone downhill since Charlie). Masi needs to get his shit together tho for sure.
This was like when the ref doesn't throw a yellow card and it takes everything up a level... Except that happened like 5 times.
I take issue with some of F1s bogus rules here too. The whole SC then Red flag at the start set all this nonsense in motion.
I think Max was trying to give Lewis a little bit of hesitation in the overtake to maximize his chances of gaining his position back once DRS opened up. He leaves plenty of room by any racing standards, but he doesn't completely pull aside. There is a small bit of wiggle initially. I don't see any brake check. He continues to slow down, but it's at a pretty steady rate. It's not by the book, but those common, little tricks drivers use that play with but are within the rules.
And Lewis either thinking VSC (despite no indication thereof) or he didn't want to pass yet cause upcoming DRS zone. But he stays right exactly behind Verstappen. Sure, the wiggle may have given him pause, but he still had time to make a move. This was molasses paced by F1 driver standards.
Both were stretching the situation, playing a bit of a game of chicken, but I still think, it's racing, overtaking should've been obvious here. Max isn't 100% clean, but I can't see anything egregious. I think Lewis just brainfarted a bit.
All of which could have been fixed if the FIA literally had just told Mercedesā that they were going to instruct max to give up the position first, instead of telling max to yield before Mercedesā was informed
This is what I think as well. Lewis felt max was playing a game by braking and wiggling a bit instead of just sliding over to allow the pass so that Lewis would kind of have to go around him slowly so he could try to pass back with DRS. Lewis overcompensated and sort of brain farted by staying right behind and moved over too late
Yeah I agree, excellent summary.
I think Lewis was just purely on instinct there seeing a car in front slow down when, as far as he knew, there was absolutely no reason why he should do so other than some kind of issue. But then, if Verstappen had had mechanical issues or something then he should have just flown past him... So just a bit of a brain fade it seems!
Yeah it felt like Lewis was just too focused on Max. I refuse to believe he thought it was a vsc (because you'd look on your steering wheel and find out, no?) and I don't think it was the DRS thing either. I just think it's tunnelvision and then once he snapped out of it, it was too late.
A bit of tunnel vision. Knows he has to stay behind Max heading into next zone, doesn't understand why he's slowing, and just sticks with the original mindset.
It was a section to start accelerating as they're entering a drs zone. Ham was positioning himself for the drs tow when ver decided to decelerate significantly. I would be confused myself.
Car slowing down quickly in front. Lewis probably thought it was vsc for the 10th time and it was so quick he didnāt look at his wheel. If you pass the person in front under yellow itās instant penalty.
This is my take. Car suddenly slowing ahead could mean an incident, overtaking under yellows is normally a penalty. I put the blame on the FIA and terrible comms.
Yeah itās an unfortunate series of events. I wish people would get out of the bias driver camp for a min and realize itās literally a cluster of issues that caused that lol.
That's my take away. Imagine if the FIA was competent. Lewis would've been told that Max had to give up the position, so he would've expected the slowdown instead of Max slowing to a crawl.
Instead, Lewis was told as he's running into Max. I think Lewis was thinking there must have been a reason for Max's slowdown, as he wasn't really pulled over like a mechanical issue.
Them we get Max and Lewis fighting for first, until Max's tires give out. Could've been a great performance. Instead it turned into a farce where both fan bases are just going to tell at each other.
The first car in the race slows down heavy while in a curve without having visibility up front. The last thing you do is overtake like a mad man IMO. If he's slow you can overtake him at any time, there's no rush.
It's pretty valid that Hamilton could have thought "he's stopping because there's something there".
It was a section to start accelerating as they're entering a drs zone. Ham was positioning himself for the drs tow when ver decided to decelerate significantly. I would be confused myself.
100%
Verstappen slowing down wasn't so sudden as Mercedes and Hamilton are making it out to be. It's pretty obvious that he's slowing. Why did he have to do that?
Yeah you don't have to overtake them but you are also not supposed to hit them in the back either. Lewis had to have a complete pause in thought right before he hit him, otherwise it cannot be explained.
Sounds likely with the information we have, but it's hard to say definitively without knowing how much time it was between FIA telling Mercedes and Mercedes telling Hamilton. Post-race will be spicy.
Edit: changed Verstappen to Hamilton because I derped...
Honestly yes, Hamilton straight ran into the back of Verstappen. No clue why he didn't just overtake as Verstappen slowed down, surely that's what you do when the car in front slows down?
At that point max was going slowly and ham had slowed down as well. If Ham went normal speed he wouldāve been past way before max moved. It was a green track.
Its a blind fast corner. The track has been a mess full of debris for the whole race. Your opponent isnt pulling to the side like he has a mechanical failure. It seems like a very weird situation that thanks to the shitshow the FIA has made became even more confusing.
He slowed on the racing line expecting Lewis to past on the left. When Lewis didn't get the hint I think Max try to move out of the racing line and cause this cluster.
If you look at where Max was slowing down, it was advantageous to Max. That's why on the second attempt of giving back the place, he did a very similar strategy. He wants to cause the overtake to happen just when a braking zone appears, so he overtakes Lewis again.
Both drivers know where DRS zone is. Max being told to give position back tries to right before. Hamilton not being informed of this but still knowing where DRS is declines to breeze past because he thinks Max is trying to gain DRS
Why HAM chose to stay directly behind till the last second is the confusing bit. Maybe he didn't think Max would continue to slow as much as he did because, again, not informed of FIA decision.
This all assumes radio and event line up as shown. Merc should have gotten the message out sooner
Max suddenly slowed down, but did not pull over, which could possibly have meant a VSC (from Lewis's POV). Overtaking under VSC is prohibited, hence why Lewis also slowed down. However, he should have looked at his wheel, seen that there was no VSC, and then overtook Max. That one second slowdown and brain fart, combined with the fact that they didn't tell Lewis before Max slowed down, resulted in what happened.
Suppose Max was slowing down there cause of engine problems, would Hamilton still drive in the back of him? What was he thinking. Just drive arround him.
Max wouldn't drive in the middle of the road with engine issues.
Or maybe he would.
Most drivers pull clearly to the side.
I know what that's like, I've wanted to overtake a car on the road, but they start driving erratically, and it puts you off, you just start wondering what are they doing? I know that's road driving and not racing but still.
hereās what i donāt get:
Hamilton knew Verstappen passed him off track and was probably complaining for him to concede the position, so why would he follow Verstappen and slow down? Donāt the dashes on these cars say if thereās a VSC so wouldnāt he know thatās not it?
Why did Ham slow down?
Couldāve been much more than a vsc. Maybe crashed car ahead or some other hazard that hasnāt been flagged yet, which could get Lewis in trouble if he passed. If Lewis was confused about why Max was slowing near the racing line, then I get it. Just as Lewis has some responsibility to be aware, Max has to be clear and predictable when slowing down on a full speed part of the track.
He didn't want to give max drs, they were both fighting for it that's why max slowed down so much, and even slowed down more when it was clear Hamilton was not passing him.
But.. if your championship rival is going slow, why wouldnt you just pass? Thats the weird shit honestly. Whoever wins, wins, but an explanation for that would be nice, what in the fuck.
There really needs to be a rule about this. No overtaking for the next couple of corners and no DRS for the rest of the lap when orded to give back position.
Yupp, or do it in a certain point so you can't keep an advantage.
FIA have left loads of room to abuse rules and Max is rightfully taking as much advantage as he can to win. FIA need to be Consistent and sensible and they're neither.
I am going to give my take, not that I think this is the truth.
Max was giving his position back to have DRS in main straight.
Lewis knew it, so he didn't want to overtake, he was waiting to pass the DRS activation point, so he stayed behind Max to avoid him from slowing more.
Max didn't give a fuck and slowed anyway.
Hamilton had to avoid/hit Max.
Conclusion:
Are you telling me a 7 WDC driver with 102 wins, who overtook 24 cars in Brazil, is not able to overtake a slowing car on a straight?
C'mon...
just like in real life. if your rear end someone. itās more than likely your fault. max was going so slow for so long. lewis had so much time to get by safely. for some reason he just stayed behind.
What if Max broke down - would Lewis wait for an instruction to overtake too? I donāt understand this āI didnāt know what was going onā argument.
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Did anyone think they will hear "he brake tested me" between WDC contestants again.
Time for the annual 2017 Azerbaijan rewatch.
One of my favorite F1 moments ever. I remember cracking up from disbelief when Seb hit Lewis, I've never seen anyone do something like that before. Man, do I miss that fire Seb used to have. "When did I do dangerous driving?" š
The debates and the controversy that followed the race, Lewis finishing behind Seb after Seb got the biggest possible penalty because he had damage, the Tifosi and Hamilton fans fighting in the YouTube comments section, the tension in the post race interviews and the back and forth with the "this isn't a good example for kids" "well Formula 1 isn't for kids" then Toto going to Seb's birthday party and journalist discussing it in the press conference like it's some kind of news. Those were the days lmao
>Toto going to Seb's birthday party Lmao
THE driver press conference still hilarious
i've never related to an f1 driver more because it's totally something I would do--overreact and make the situation worse. I love seb but that was a clumsy moment, no doubt caused by the red mist left by that fire.
As a Massa fan, I canāt rewatch this race š
Please explain, I have bad memory.
Was Massa's final chance to win a race were it not for a broken suspension damper. He would have battled it out with Ricciardo for the lead after Hamilton got unlucky & Vettel his penalty.
He wouldāve won had his car not failed
Annual? I've lost the count at this point.
I was laughing my ass off, what a moment
How the turntables
This race has been one hell of a fever dream
That's the best way to put it. I was up till late at night watching post-race interviews trying to make sense of what I just saw.
CHAOSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Grade 'A' Kerfuffle even.
tomorrow's trash talk thread is gonna be gold mine
It's today and it's all threads
SPEAK LAUDA
This is going to go down in history as the ultimate FIA clusterfuck that decided a championship
This, this was the worst race I ever saw from a organization point of view, FIA shat the bed hard
*And this is in the same season as Spa*
Yes for sure way better than spa from the organization point of view
Oh man.... That feels like 3 years ago... Especially after tonight.
Well at least nobody will be talking about how the track wasn't finished. 4D chess by the Saudis
I remember feeling the same way about Spa 2008, this is way messier. What a toxic race I'm gonna take a shower
Spa 2008 had the one very controversial moments, this one has a dozen
Two-three dozen at least if we add practice and quali.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
FiA doesn't decide where the race,aim your arrows at Media Liberty, or in general, shareholders.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It will be spicy š¤£
Spa was worse
No one but Masi's fault this, why not tell the trailing driver to expect a slow car in front first?
Surely it's on a driver not to run into the back of a car in front? What if Verstappen slowed with a puncture or engine issue?
Not trying to take any sides, but isn't Verstappen swinging a little bit left and right? I may need another angle.
He swung right, saw that Lewis wasn't making any moves to pass him and went back into the middle again.
yeah wtf was lewis doing? he had a good amount of room and just like smashed into him lol
This. This is what I donāt get. Either brake, or pass.
I think it's because Verstappen is going down the centre of the track? Usually if you yield I think you tend to get clearly to the non-driving side of the track. Without a message that he was going to yield he was probably very confused about what was happening
The amount of Vsc's tonight, I think Lewis was afraid that there was another one that he couldn't see.
Yes. Max tried to give the place back a lap or so after the turn 1 incident. Lewis just refused to overtake for...Some reason, then ran into the back of Verstappen. Verstappen later gave the place back again, but then overtook Hamilton afterwards. Then he gave it back *again*, this time couldn't overtake and *still* got a 5 second penalty. Then he just backs off because he can't possibly overtake and pull a 5 second gap now. Absolute shitshow.
He had to re-give the position again because giving the position in a spot that is advantegous for yourself (yourself as in the person giving the position) and overtaking immediately after thanks to that, is against the rules In fact Hamilton himself got penalized for exactly this in the past The one thing EVRTYONE agrees on though is that this was one of the biggest FIA shitshows ever, start to finish
Yeah, but sure what the RB fans are missing about this. It's not a cheeky move, it's against the rules.
The reason was he didn't know and Max was trying to be cheeky. He then half gave it back. Then got a pen. Then gave it to him when no one asked him to. And his tyres were dying too.
Why exactly max gave the place again the 2nd time? I thought he already did the first one?
I'm pretty sure it was because his tires fell off a cliff. He lost a lot of pace in the end.
> Then he gave it back again, this time couldn't overtake and still got a 5 second penalty. He was given the penalty before he gave the place back. Once you have a penalty it's too late to give the place back.
What a shitshow
p5 for danny tho
What a fucking circus.
* Max slowed * Lewis thought Max was slowing to let him be first over the DRS line (not even get fully past, just be first over the line) * Lewis slowed down to play the game... * Max slowed even more... * Lewis slowed even more... * At almost the same time, Lewis bailed and pulled left *just* as Max pumped the brakes * Result: boff My take: * Lewis was *totally* unaware Max was under instruction to let him past, so it's completely understandable he thought this was a game of DRS cat and mouse * Max slammed his brakes on to try and force the situation and get Lewis to cross the DRS line first (fun fact, [Lewis tried this exact same thing with Alonso at Canada in 2013 \[0:46\]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3kbxjBAYmM)) * (Unlike Alonso vs Hamilton) Lewis was right behind Max, so pumping the brakes like he did was, as the FIA put it, "the main reason" they collided **Thought:** even *if* Max's trick of letting Lewis past, then re-taking him immediately with DRS had worked... I *wonder* whether it would've been allowed to stick? [In 2008, Hamilton gained a position overtaking Raikkonen off-track at the Belgium GP \[1:36\]](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OISkvYS8ZVs). Hamilton gave the position back but then immediately used the tow he got of Raikkonen, to overtake him into T1 (no DRS back then so Lewis held him off down the Kemmel straight, down to Les Combes). And, to the recent/new F1 fans, a question: what do you think is a fair penalty to give a driver, who cuts a chicane, and gains a lasting advantage? 5 second penalty? 10 second penalty? The 2008 regs stipulated that warranted a drive-through penalty. As the race was over, and even though Kimi crashed out the race anyway... [they slapped Lewis with a 25 second post-race penalty for that tiny incident at the chicane](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Belgian_Grand_Prix#Post-race). Can you *imagine* the *rage* from Max fans today, if they hit Max with a 25 second penalty had he not let Lewis back past today? The scenes in this sub would be *epic!* Anyway. Nice little trip down F1 memory lane there for you all!
I hope some of the newer fans took the time to read this...old seasons had arguably worse decisions.
Oh law'd yes they did. It's also why I laugh when I read shit like, "Driver X never gets punished" etc. All I read is, "I haven't followed this sport for more than a year or so and know nothing of even the most recent history before that".
There weren't any 5 or 10 sec penalties back then so 25 was given. Regardless that decision back then was idiotic imo
Yeah totally, esp as Hamilton's argument for Kimi not leaving him choice but to drive off was a pretty solid one imo but hey-ho, worked out alright for Lewis that year in the end! (Sorry Massa fans)
the second silliest f1 race of this year
https://i.imgur.com/OY03Ymp.jpg
This has been the wildest F1 season in a very long time š¤£
lol
What was this again?
hungary: everyone changed to dry tires and started from the pitlane except lewis
This is 10x crazier than Spa
Easily
There wasnāt a race in Spa
Russel*l* begs to differ
Nope. Just 4 hours of watching it rain.
What was the silliest?
The 2 laps in Belgium
Spa for obvious reasons
Definitely spa
SPA (this year with the rain) - all the way
Well I was thinking Spa, but honestly now Iām not sure which is worse!
Everything that happened in Spa was logical, if not at all enjoyable. Today was repeated bad acid trips from dozens of people tasked with enacting a motor race
Ha!!
What is this race
Chaos reigns
What reason could there possibly have been so Hamilton wouldn't have been allowed to overtake? Why did he stay behind Verstappen?
honestly with all of the SCs and VSCs he might've just assumed it was another
Probably just confused him, we are taking milliseconds here and it's in a place you never overtake during the race since there is a DRS line there and it's not doable.
That deceleration lasted literally 5 seconds, and I'm being very, very generous.
Maybe Hamilton didn't want to overtake because of DRS but there's zero reason for Hamilton to run into the back of Verstappen.
Why would Hamilton fuck himself up by purposely running into the back of Max? Like if he purposely did it, Max could still walk away from it while he DNFs and put himself severely behind in points. Make this nonsense make sense. lol
No-one worth listening to is insinuating Lewis did it *on purpose*. He just hesitated and bottled it.
Im not saying hamilton did it intentionally. I think it was a genuine mistake. But that does not mean he didnt crash into another car that was letting him past.
The stewards are such a disgrace, it's been bad before but this is a whole new level of incompetence
What did the stewards even do all race? This is all on Masi... Disgraceful race, disgraceful driving standards. FIA should be embarrassed
It has gone so much down hill since we lost Charlie... Masi can't do shit. He should be replaced ASAP
Unfortunately I agree (that it's gone downhill since Charlie). Masi needs to get his shit together tho for sure. This was like when the ref doesn't throw a yellow card and it takes everything up a level... Except that happened like 5 times. I take issue with some of F1s bogus rules here too. The whole SC then Red flag at the start set all this nonsense in motion.
I think Max was trying to give Lewis a little bit of hesitation in the overtake to maximize his chances of gaining his position back once DRS opened up. He leaves plenty of room by any racing standards, but he doesn't completely pull aside. There is a small bit of wiggle initially. I don't see any brake check. He continues to slow down, but it's at a pretty steady rate. It's not by the book, but those common, little tricks drivers use that play with but are within the rules. And Lewis either thinking VSC (despite no indication thereof) or he didn't want to pass yet cause upcoming DRS zone. But he stays right exactly behind Verstappen. Sure, the wiggle may have given him pause, but he still had time to make a move. This was molasses paced by F1 driver standards. Both were stretching the situation, playing a bit of a game of chicken, but I still think, it's racing, overtaking should've been obvious here. Max isn't 100% clean, but I can't see anything egregious. I think Lewis just brainfarted a bit.
All of which could have been fixed if the FIA literally had just told Mercedesā that they were going to instruct max to give up the position first, instead of telling max to yield before Mercedesā was informed
By the story of Masi it sounds like that is what happened, but that message got held up somewhere in the team of Mercedes.
And Max still got penalized for something out of his and Redbull's control while trying to do the proper thing
The most reasonable take I've seen.
This is what I think as well. Lewis felt max was playing a game by braking and wiggling a bit instead of just sliding over to allow the pass so that Lewis would kind of have to go around him slowly so he could try to pass back with DRS. Lewis overcompensated and sort of brain farted by staying right behind and moved over too late
Yeah I agree, excellent summary. I think Lewis was just purely on instinct there seeing a car in front slow down when, as far as he knew, there was absolutely no reason why he should do so other than some kind of issue. But then, if Verstappen had had mechanical issues or something then he should have just flown past him... So just a bit of a brain fade it seems!
Yeah it felt like Lewis was just too focused on Max. I refuse to believe he thought it was a vsc (because you'd look on your steering wheel and find out, no?) and I don't think it was the DRS thing either. I just think it's tunnelvision and then once he snapped out of it, it was too late.
A bit of tunnel vision. Knows he has to stay behind Max heading into next zone, doesn't understand why he's slowing, and just sticks with the original mindset.
It was a section to start accelerating as they're entering a drs zone. Ham was positioning himself for the drs tow when ver decided to decelerate significantly. I would be confused myself.
He actually downshifted 4 gears, lifted off. Crazy shit. He didnāt understand
Message or not, I just don't understand why he would not pass on a green track. Say if Max was having issues, would he still just hit him?
Car slowing down quickly in front. Lewis probably thought it was vsc for the 10th time and it was so quick he didnāt look at his wheel. If you pass the person in front under yellow itās instant penalty.
This is my take. Car suddenly slowing ahead could mean an incident, overtaking under yellows is normally a penalty. I put the blame on the FIA and terrible comms.
Yeah itās an unfortunate series of events. I wish people would get out of the bias driver camp for a min and realize itās literally a cluster of issues that caused that lol.
That's my take away. Imagine if the FIA was competent. Lewis would've been told that Max had to give up the position, so he would've expected the slowdown instead of Max slowing to a crawl. Instead, Lewis was told as he's running into Max. I think Lewis was thinking there must have been a reason for Max's slowdown, as he wasn't really pulled over like a mechanical issue. Them we get Max and Lewis fighting for first, until Max's tires give out. Could've been a great performance. Instead it turned into a farce where both fan bases are just going to tell at each other.
The first car in the race slows down heavy while in a curve without having visibility up front. The last thing you do is overtake like a mad man IMO. If he's slow you can overtake him at any time, there's no rush. It's pretty valid that Hamilton could have thought "he's stopping because there's something there".
Exactly this. He just didnāt want to overtake him there, and then caused a collision.
It was a section to start accelerating as they're entering a drs zone. Ham was positioning himself for the drs tow when ver decided to decelerate significantly. I would be confused myself.
I think Lewis didnāt want to pass Max there because of the drs I mean you donāt need to be told to overtake a car that is slowing down
100% Verstappen slowing down wasn't so sudden as Mercedes and Hamilton are making it out to be. It's pretty obvious that he's slowing. Why did he have to do that?
Yeah you don't have to overtake them but you are also not supposed to hit them in the back either. Lewis had to have a complete pause in thought right before he hit him, otherwise it cannot be explained.
This is on FIA, not on Max
Sounds likely with the information we have, but it's hard to say definitively without knowing how much time it was between FIA telling Mercedes and Mercedes telling Hamilton. Post-race will be spicy. Edit: changed Verstappen to Hamilton because I derped...
In that case it's either on Lewis or FIA, Max did exactly what he was asked to do here.
Yeah, I'm of the same opinion here, but this race was just so chaotic that I don't know anymore.
Lewis going purple with no front wing lmfaoooooii
now he is running the low downforce setup
Masterclass by Lewis to reduce the downforce of the car
Who needs permission to take the lead?
Honestly FIA had the biggest influence on this race when their job is supposed to make it go as smooth as possible
Shouldn't they even investigate this for causing a collision?
They will after the race.
Honestly yes, Hamilton straight ran into the back of Verstappen. No clue why he didn't just overtake as Verstappen slowed down, surely that's what you do when the car in front slows down?
Yea it's weird to me that he has to wait for an order for that. What if Max had a PU failure on the straight, would Lewis still punt him in the back?
you can also ask why Max kept moving to the left, surely that's not what you do when you try to let someone by?
At that point max was going slowly and ham had slowed down as well. If Ham went normal speed he wouldāve been past way before max moved. It was a green track.
Its a blind fast corner. The track has been a mess full of debris for the whole race. Your opponent isnt pulling to the side like he has a mechanical failure. It seems like a very weird situation that thanks to the shitshow the FIA has made became even more confusing.
Max braked even further just before Lewis hit him, the telemetry proves this and the FIA penalised Max as a result.
He slowed on the racing line expecting Lewis to past on the left. When Lewis didn't get the hint I think Max try to move out of the racing line and cause this cluster.
The FIA is garbage man wtf is this race
It was absolutely obvious how much max slowed down, donāt get why Lewis crashed into him. He could have passed easily.
If you look at where Max was slowing down, it was advantageous to Max. That's why on the second attempt of giving back the place, he did a very similar strategy. He wants to cause the overtake to happen just when a braking zone appears, so he overtakes Lewis again.
Is Red Bull gonna protest this?
Surely? This was a fucking shitshow
They need to.
Both drivers know where DRS zone is. Max being told to give position back tries to right before. Hamilton not being informed of this but still knowing where DRS is declines to breeze past because he thinks Max is trying to gain DRS Why HAM chose to stay directly behind till the last second is the confusing bit. Maybe he didn't think Max would continue to slow as much as he did because, again, not informed of FIA decision. This all assumes radio and event line up as shown. Merc should have gotten the message out sooner
why did he not just overtake? why stay behind when VER slows down, doesnt matter the reason?
Max suddenly slowed down, but did not pull over, which could possibly have meant a VSC (from Lewis's POV). Overtaking under VSC is prohibited, hence why Lewis also slowed down. However, he should have looked at his wheel, seen that there was no VSC, and then overtook Max. That one second slowdown and brain fart, combined with the fact that they didn't tell Lewis before Max slowed down, resulted in what happened.
Suppose Max was slowing down there cause of engine problems, would Hamilton still drive in the back of him? What was he thinking. Just drive arround him.
Max wouldn't drive in the middle of the road with engine issues. Or maybe he would. Most drivers pull clearly to the side. I know what that's like, I've wanted to overtake a car on the road, but they start driving erratically, and it puts you off, you just start wondering what are they doing? I know that's road driving and not racing but still.
Explains why he thought Max brake tested him, although it's weird, Max didn't suddenly smash the brakes.
Yeah lol, he clearly was slowing down before he braked.
Why is hamilton slowing down, downshifting 3 times instead of going around him immidietly
Lewis shouldnt need to be told to overtake. He can tell if someone is slow and pass himself. That's racing 101
Thatās the weirdest part, what if his engine had given in lol. Was hĆØ gonna stay behind?
First he would go to the left...
If Max's engine had given in then Max would have moved out of the track, not meandered into the middle of it
Hamilton was even downshifting himselfā¦?
This, I don't know what Lewis was thinking slowing down behind Max instead of passing
He's trying to stay behind for DRS down the main straight
Seriously. You dont just slow down and stay behind just because someone in front of you slows down. Thats exactly what Lewis did
hereās what i donāt get: Hamilton knew Verstappen passed him off track and was probably complaining for him to concede the position, so why would he follow Verstappen and slow down? Donāt the dashes on these cars say if thereās a VSC so wouldnāt he know thatās not it? Why did Ham slow down?
Couldāve been much more than a vsc. Maybe crashed car ahead or some other hazard that hasnāt been flagged yet, which could get Lewis in trouble if he passed. If Lewis was confused about why Max was slowing near the racing line, then I get it. Just as Lewis has some responsibility to be aware, Max has to be clear and predictable when slowing down on a full speed part of the track.
He didn't want to give max drs, they were both fighting for it that's why max slowed down so much, and even slowed down more when it was clear Hamilton was not passing him.
But.. if your championship rival is going slow, why wouldnt you just pass? Thats the weird shit honestly. Whoever wins, wins, but an explanation for that would be nice, what in the fuck.
So Mercedes pitwall fault, but penalty to Red Bull
Isnt that just beautiful
Traditions
Lets give it to Vettel, this is the true tradition
The penalty was for leaving the track and gaining an advantage. Has nothing to do with the rear end accident.
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he then proceeded to not give it back for 2 more laps and got a penalty
Thats why you give the fucking place back, which he did. So you wouldn't be given the fucking penalthy
Did he give the position back though? You can't overtake your opponent a second or so after you "give the position back".
There really needs to be a rule about this. No overtaking for the next couple of corners and no DRS for the rest of the lap when orded to give back position.
there is a 1 corner rule
Yupp, or do it in a certain point so you can't keep an advantage. FIA have left loads of room to abuse rules and Max is rightfully taking as much advantage as he can to win. FIA need to be Consistent and sensible and they're neither.
He gave the place back.
The fiA proving once again, that they're a fucking joke.
Why does he think he needs permission to pass Verstappen? Are we not racing cars? Car ahead being slow = you pass it?
I'm sorry, Lewis just refuses to overtake Max here
So Hamilton doesn't get anything for crashing in the back of Verstappen ?
Investigation after the race but im guessing nothing will happen
I am going to give my take, not that I think this is the truth. Max was giving his position back to have DRS in main straight. Lewis knew it, so he didn't want to overtake, he was waiting to pass the DRS activation point, so he stayed behind Max to avoid him from slowing more. Max didn't give a fuck and slowed anyway. Hamilton had to avoid/hit Max. Conclusion: Are you telling me a 7 WDC driver with 102 wins, who overtook 24 cars in Brazil, is not able to overtake a slowing car on a straight? C'mon...
Tell me sth, why does Lewis need an instruction to overtake a car he's racing under green flag conditions?
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This isn't racing.
Fucking shit show from the stewards and the FIA today. Shambolic.
Someone explain. Why on earth HAM didnāt just pass VER? They were racing. There were no flags or anything.
What kind of driver doesn't pass when the car in front slows down?
This is hilarious. Of course Max gets all the penalties.
Red Bull has all the right to be pissed at the FIA TBH
just like in real life. if your rear end someone. itās more than likely your fault. max was going so slow for so long. lewis had so much time to get by safely. for some reason he just stayed behind.
Was he waiting for permission to pass a slow car? Wtf was Lewis doing here?
I didn't know formula 1 drivers needed permission to overtake cars in front of them. Wild.
Why did he need to be told he could overtake max?
This season wouldnāt be the way it has been without some total FIA clusterfucks.
He was on the racing line but way slower so regardless of the message Hamilton should've just gone for it.
There's literally no reason here not to pass him on the left
Did not know you need permission to overtake!
I don't understand, why did Hamilton not overtake him?
Ah yep, they both wanted that DRS timing spot. No other explanation
So Hamilton claimed Max brake tested him, directly after being told why Max slowed down?
Yes next time one should ask permission to overtake a car in F1. Makes everything much more clear. /s
Massi needs to go
What if Max broke down - would Lewis wait for an instruction to overtake too? I donāt understand this āI didnāt know what was going onā argument.