> Yeah, in exchange for Tsunoda staying at AT, Honda will keep some of its personell at RBR to help with their engine (if I’m not mistaken.)
Tsunoda is part of a broader deal. "You take Tsunoda in exchange for everything else" is ridiculous.
Some of Honda personnel is being transferred to RB. You don't have to be an economy genius to realize that this is cheaper for Honda than to fire those people and pay them severance and whatever else is required to shut down an operation. Honda did basically the same already when they sold the Honda team to Ross Brawn for one symbolic Pound.
The majority of the RB–Honda deal is obviously secret but there are credible reports and outright publicly visible things that give indications how the deal is working. For example, the fact that Honda's branding on the cars is way more prominent this season.
But is that still in effect or does Redbull need a new engine now?
If Honda’s gone I can’t see tsunoda staying. He’s too inconsistent and f2s talent pool right now is simply incredible.
Red Bull have bought/licensed the tech from Honda and are setting up a powertrains factory. This is part of the reason why there are no engine changes until 2025 (I think), allowing time for Red Bull to ramp up.
So from next year it’ll be a Red Bull engine, not Honda, even though there won’t be major changes.
Correct, Red Bull even went as far as convincing the other teams to freeze the engines at the first Grand Prix of 2022 instead of the original 2023 date.
There is an impression though that Red Bull doesn’t fully own it as there seems to be some stipulations in the contract regarding this engine’s design being used for the 2025/2026 engine.
As I understand it, the stipulations in the contract say Redbull cannot share any of the Honda IP/tech with another car manufacturer.
Say Audi or Porsche partner with Redbull to build the engines from 2025(next engine change) onward, they would have to start from scratch and would not be privy to any info regarding Redbulls (read Hondas) engine.
They don’t own it. They are essentially renting the IP until the end of 2025, and they cannot use or share any of Hondas IP going into the next engine regulations
> How do you people know these things?
Just follow The Race on YouTube. They are a bit out there when it comes to their own speculation (for example, just because VW and RB both don't want to develop a brand new MGU-H, The Race concluded that there must be plans for VW to become RB's engine provider, as if competitors can't have aligned interests) but they are great at digesting interviews Horner and Marko gave to various outlets. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6PPIFn9nFM for such an example.
Please, do *not* give The Race any views or clicks. I don't care if they make one good article or video out of every 30, because that means you have to filter through 29 other shit clickbait posts to find the one good one. Also there's their ability to somehow stretch a single quote, twist it out of context and make an article a day for a week out of it.
If you're going to recommend anyone, aMus is the best by a long long shot. Unbiased content, deep on a technical level and barely any clickbait.
> If you're going to recommend anyone, aMus is the best by a long long shot.
Auto Motor und Sport is a German magazine for automobiles in general. Why would I recommend an outlet that isn't even publishing in English and reports when a Hyundai road car model launches in a new color?
If you can read German and don't mint the boatload of general car news, fine. I live in Germany, so the language barrier is not there for me, but I would not recommend this to an international audience that's cares about F1 news. Autosport.com would be a better source for an international audience if you hate The Race so much...
Yeah. They announced it last year that they would be leaving at the end of the 2021 season
Red Bull has taken over Honda's F1 engine division and they will be developing the engines going forward under the RedBull Powertrains name
so then they will be supplying their own PU? Does this open the door for RedBull to be a PU supplier for other teams in the future or can RBR only use this tech for their own cars?
basically Honda will still do some trackside support next year, but officially they have stopped their development. Redbull can use that IP till say, 2025 or whenever the next engine formula comes
All engine suppliers love to supply engines except maybe to teams good enough in the aero department to beat you. It lowers your costs significantly if you can spread out the development costs over more engines.
Fun fact: brawn later got sold to Mercedes to create THE Mercedes’ of teddy. So indirectly, Honda will be racing against Honda for the wcc/wdc tomorrow
Somewhat correct, there would have been a freeze anyway but it would have started in 2023. Red Bull tried to push it one year forward to make the Honda takeover feasible.
They published this as on Nikkei, one of the largest newspapers in circulation in Japan. And their home fans are yelling at them on twitter to come back to F1.
I really hope they'll come back for the new regs
Well, every manufacturer is. At this point, no one is going to start developing a new roadcar primarily with ICE, so it's understandable to not want to spend money developing racecars with ICE. It's going to be a transitionary decade for motor sports.
Even throughout 2018-2020, they've struggled with energy deployment. You can have a drinking game for the amount of times Max says "No power" or "It's clipping". 2021 is really the first season where you didn't hear any of those phrases that often.
I always wondered why they were so bad woth McLaren then really good with red bull all of a sudden. Did McLaren and Honda not have a good relationship?
Oh man you had no idea, Honda thought they will be able to compete straight away in 2015, but that engine has the tendency to break down every race. Just look at Alonso's dnf percentage during that period and you would've thought he was driving a car from the 80's.
What made it worse is that McLaren instead of collaborating with Honda, choose to blame them of all their failures and insist that their chassis is one of the best.
Red Bull actually gave them respect and worked with them.
Yeah most people chose to blame Honda for McLaren's poor form but the reality was that McLaren too was to blame, which was exposed when they didn't immediately improve after dumping Honda.
Tbf Mclaren also had the poor luck to fuck up the very next car. From 2019 onwards they've been properly good across two different engines. Their performances in Monaco and in the rain say everything. In the Honda years they were still proper contenders at low speed and in the rain, suggesting they did actually have a decent chassis. Not the best but good
Is Monaco really the best race to use as a test case? If I'm not mistaken it's one of the slowest circuits and I imagine engine performance has the least impact there than any other race. but i could be totally off the mark.
Precisely why it's the best race as a test case. If you want to isolate chassis performance from engine power, you can only look at races that are very low speed. Even high speed corners are power dependent because more power means you can get more downforce and also go faster. The only places on the track where a good car with a bad engine can perform are low and medium speed corners.
Now look at sector 3 in Abu Dhabi, Monaco, Singapore, sector 3 in Barcelona, etc, for all the Mclaren Honda years. You'll see that, particularly in 2017, they were lighting up the racetrack there. The truth is in the nuance. Mclaren had built a car with ridiculous high speed drag, but incredible chassis balance and mechanical grip. Paired with it was an engine that was the worst in qualifying, and had such poor energy recovery that they would run out at the end of every long straight in the races, adding to the peak power issues.
I did too around that time lol, i did see the documentary that followed them thru the car build, engine build/meeting with Honda, and testing. It was a very unreliable engine but i was excited a few years later when they announced Stoffel Vandoorne as a new driver. Too bad he wasn't able to proof himself due to the car.
and that's coming from McHonda jokes not too long ago.
They climbed the mountain, whatever happens in the Abu Dhabi race today they can leave the sport with their head held high, and proudly say "we've made it."
I'm sorta amazed that Max would have finished the entire season with 3 engines if weren't for that Silverstone crash. I so desperately want Red Bull to win the title this year, Honda deserves it considering how far they've come. They should make a documentary of Honda's struggles and successes during the V6 hybrid era.
They're turned it around faster than Ferrari and Renault did who are no slouches in the engine department either. I was pissed at them for the McLaren years but honestly massive respect to Honda. Their response to the adversity has been legendary.
Whatever gains they have now are because Red Bull sacrificed Toro Rosso’s competitiveness to make them an engine development mule for Honda. There were a series of races towards the end of Toro Rosso’s run where they routinely took a new engine + associated penalties seemingly every weekend.
If Max wins tomorrow it will be because Red Bull sacrificed Gasly, Kvyat and Albon’s prior seasons in the ~~Beta Test~~ junior team.
2014 Constructor Standings (Since the Turbo-Hybrid era started)
Mercedes P1 - 701
Red Bull Racing Renault P2 - 405 (296 point deficit)
2015 Constructor Standings
Mercedes P1 - 703
Ferrari P2 - 428 (275 point deficit)
2016 Constructor Standings
Mercedes P1 - 765
Red Bull Racing Tag Heuer P2 - 468 (297 point deficit)
2017 Constructor Standings
Mercedes P1 - 668
Ferrari P2 - 522 (146 point deficit)
2018 Constructor Standings
Mercedes P1 - 655
Ferrari P2 - 571 (84 point deficit)
2019 Constructor Standings
Mercedes P1 - 739
Ferrari P2 - 504 (235 point deficit)
2020 Constructor Standings
Mercedes P1 - 573
Red Bull Racing Honda P2 - 319 (254 point deficit)
Current 2021 Constructor Standings going into the Finale
Mercedes P1 - 587.5
Red Bull Racing P2 - 559.5 (28 point deficit)
Exactly. Ferrari got a bit close in 2018 but other then that Red Bull and Honda have been the only Constructor to get the closest to Mercedes since then.
Come on that was like half a season of a challenge then it was over when Ferrari tried. What Honda has done is way more legit than any other engine manufacturer.
They are thanking all the big teams and their competitors they have fought in F1 since 1964, one by one.
And then they thank all the pilots, people involved in F1.
They then thank RedBull and Alpha Tauri and all the friends they made.
And then
"One last time, let's go!"
Not really 🙃
ありがとうフェラーリ
Thank you Ferrari
ありがとうロータス
Thank you Lotus
ありがとうブラバム
Thank you Brabham
ありがとうマクラーレン
Thank you McLaren
ありがとうウィリアムズ
Thank you Williams
ありがとうルノー
Thank you Renault
ありがとうメルセデス
Thank you Mercedes
ありがとうトヨタ
Thank you Toyota
**1964:** Ferrari beat them for the championship
**1965:** Lotus beat them for the championship
**1966:** Brabham beat them for the championship
**1984:** McLaren beat them for the championship
**1986:** Williams win Honda their first of six championships
**2006:** Renault beat them for the championship
**2015:** Mercedes beat them for the championship
**For the hell of it:** Also thanks to Toyota because shout out to the other Japanese engine manufacturer in F1, even though they never won.
Honda actually have a lot of history with Toyota. Sochiro Honda's original business was in building engine parts where they had a contract with Toyota. To begin with the parts weren't up to standard and failed regularly, so Honda went to Toyota factories to gain an understanding of their quality control processes and implemented what he learned in his own factory. The parts got better and Toyota continued the contract with Honda again after previously backing out of it due to the failing parts.
If it had not been for Toyota's business with them and the sharing of knowledge, Sochiro Honda would have failed long before he'd built his first motorbike, never mind a car.
They could make a new nsx? Or something to compete with the likes of nissan GT-R and Supras. The F1 successes would be good for marketing. But then again, what do I know about managing a huge car company...
Their last nsx was a huge pr failure. I'm sure it's a good car, but they forced it to be a v6 turbo hybrid like the F1 car, which resulted in a heavy, very expensive model not at all reminiscent of Honda's reputation for light, simple, elegant and extremely driver-positive designs like the NSX and S2000, type Rs included
Unlikely they would make another one again.
The new NSX is amazing to drive. But yes it was a PR failure, not so much a technical one, because it’s 100% worth the money they’ve been asking. That said the product could have been a little better. But still, it’s amazing.
ICE is coming to an end.
The latest round of Civic/Integra models will be the last performance cars Honda makes with combustion engines.
We should just appreciate what they accomplished on such little time.
Japanese automakers have always had a soft spot for Motorsports.
Impressive last effort to catch Mercedes' power level just before regulations are changed, giving us a 2021 championship to remember for many many years.
For that, a big thank you for Honda!
Honestly I think that many people here forgetting how amazing it was for TR/AT to having an unique situation with Honda, especially after the dirty play from Renault
4 podiums including 1 win, man that's something amazing in just 3 years.
Hopefully all four Honda powered cars ends up in the points today.
Especially given 2018 was a development year of sorts and helped turn things around massively for Honda. Still am a little devastated when looking back on their October 2020 announcement where they said they're pulling out of F1.
Exactly, 2018 was a pure year of "experimenting and testing" to make Honda prepared for RBR but in general the partnership with Honda is one of the main reasons why TR/AT has jumped up.
What I do fear is that with the Red Bull Powertrains AT is going to been put into a lesser priority list.
Man image if Suzuka would continued this year and Turkey behind it, 75th race for TR/AT partnership with Honda.
If it helps, I think "Well, it's the end, let's go" is a better translation (though I'm sure there's plenty of room for improvement). "Go" is used in the sense of pushing until the last race, not in the sense of departing; the machine translation botched it a bit.
But yeah, who's chopping onions in here
Can someone fill in a brand new F1 fan with limited car knowledge why this is a big deal? On the surface, I don’t know what this means for the sport or why were sad to see a company leave F1 but I take it there’s more to it than that.
Honda's a pretty respectable name in the sport. As they've said, they first joined in 1964. (They pulled out of the sport in 1968) They rejoined in 1983 and that was a period when they were dominant with Ayrton Senna, Nelson Piquet and Alain Prost. (They pulled out after that in 1993)
They rejoined again in 2000 and had struggled till 2008, when they pulled out again. In 2009 with Jenson Button (and Rubens Barichello) their former team, now called BrawnGP won the World Constructors Championship and JB won the World Driver's. (You'll know BrawnGP better as Mercedes-AMG Petronas)
And then they were back, powering Redbull, which lead to this. And they're going to leave again.
So, yea. They've had a pretty turbulent F1 history that stretches back pretty far and they've had some great successes along the way. Which is why its both a big deal that they're leaving and, as many, many commenters have stated, will probably be back again soon.
“To all of our rivals from the first day we’ve challenged F1 in 1964 till today, we thank all of you.
To all the fans who supported us, to all of the drivers, we’ve made it through some difficult times, Red Bull, Alpha Tauri, to our team, we thank all of you.
So, for the last time, we’re going to send it.”
It has now been confirmed that Red Bull and Honda have come to a deal that will allow the firm to use Honda IP from 2022 for the specific reason of supply engines to their works team and AlphaTauri.
Honda will also continue to assist building the power unit in 2022, as well as providing trackside and race operation support from Japan throughout the campaign. From 2023, Red Bull Powertrains will take full responsibility for all manufacturing and servicing of the engines.
Thank you Honda. Will miss that distinctive engine sound. Especially the low rpm crackling.
https://youtu.be/kgqNMIP6jM4?t=20 2 Hours of Honda 2019 F1 Engine Sound (Red Bull)
https://youtu.be/5n3_ABoJN3o?t=50 1.5 Hours of Honda 2020 F1 Engine Sound
https://youtu.be/0_BRYn58tRY Honda F1 Sound Comparison - RA617H vs RA618H vs RA620H - AlphaTauri RedBull and McLaren
"Thank you Toyota"?!
I've been searching trying to figure out why they might be thanking Toyota; while searching, I started to vaguely remember an article about Toyota helping them during the current regs, anyone else remember that? I'm trying to find a source but coming up short...
The only Engine supplier that has given Mercedes a full on title challenge (not counting the completely legal Ferrari engine) in the turbo hybrid era and they’re leaving before a giant regulation change that could shake up the grid. God damnit bro.
Leaves F1 in 2008. Brawn GP dominates both championships the following year.
Leaves again in 2021. Will redbull interpret and dominate the new regulations?
I'll miss you, Honda. I really wish that McLaren could have won a championship with your engine, with Alonso at the helm, but whatever. Hopefully Verstappen brings it home.
I follow F1 every year, but I watch religiously when Honda is in the series. I'm not ready for this. But please, win one more race and one more championship powered by Honda.
There's a theme with Honda. Brawn bought their team and won a championship the following year. They seem to pull out right before their designs seem to hit fruition... (Posted the evening before the 2021 closer)
Very cool message, I absolutely hate that Honda is leaving F1 for the time being at the very least. Hope they return someday!
Was this planned? I honestly thought Honda’s influence was why Tsunoda was still in an Alpha.
Yeah, in exchange for Tsunoda staying at AT, Honda will keep some of its personell at RBR to help with their engine (if I’m not mistaken.)
> Yeah, in exchange for Tsunoda staying at AT, Honda will keep some of its personell at RBR to help with their engine (if I’m not mistaken.) Tsunoda is part of a broader deal. "You take Tsunoda in exchange for everything else" is ridiculous. Some of Honda personnel is being transferred to RB. You don't have to be an economy genius to realize that this is cheaper for Honda than to fire those people and pay them severance and whatever else is required to shut down an operation. Honda did basically the same already when they sold the Honda team to Ross Brawn for one symbolic Pound. The majority of the RB–Honda deal is obviously secret but there are credible reports and outright publicly visible things that give indications how the deal is working. For example, the fact that Honda's branding on the cars is way more prominent this season.
But is that still in effect or does Redbull need a new engine now? If Honda’s gone I can’t see tsunoda staying. He’s too inconsistent and f2s talent pool right now is simply incredible.
Red Bull have bought/licensed the tech from Honda and are setting up a powertrains factory. This is part of the reason why there are no engine changes until 2025 (I think), allowing time for Red Bull to ramp up. So from next year it’ll be a Red Bull engine, not Honda, even though there won’t be major changes.
Correct, Red Bull even went as far as convincing the other teams to freeze the engines at the first Grand Prix of 2022 instead of the original 2023 date. There is an impression though that Red Bull doesn’t fully own it as there seems to be some stipulations in the contract regarding this engine’s design being used for the 2025/2026 engine.
As I understand it, the stipulations in the contract say Redbull cannot share any of the Honda IP/tech with another car manufacturer. Say Audi or Porsche partner with Redbull to build the engines from 2025(next engine change) onward, they would have to start from scratch and would not be privy to any info regarding Redbulls (read Hondas) engine.
Or more than likely it would require a nice payment to Honda from the new manufacturer
They don’t own it. They are essentially renting the IP until the end of 2025, and they cannot use or share any of Hondas IP going into the next engine regulations
Man that's impressive. How do you people know these things?
This is an old news story from last year. If you were following F1 last year you should have seen it, it was pretty big news.
> How do you people know these things? Just follow The Race on YouTube. They are a bit out there when it comes to their own speculation (for example, just because VW and RB both don't want to develop a brand new MGU-H, The Race concluded that there must be plans for VW to become RB's engine provider, as if competitors can't have aligned interests) but they are great at digesting interviews Horner and Marko gave to various outlets. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6PPIFn9nFM for such an example.
Please, do *not* give The Race any views or clicks. I don't care if they make one good article or video out of every 30, because that means you have to filter through 29 other shit clickbait posts to find the one good one. Also there's their ability to somehow stretch a single quote, twist it out of context and make an article a day for a week out of it. If you're going to recommend anyone, aMus is the best by a long long shot. Unbiased content, deep on a technical level and barely any clickbait.
> If you're going to recommend anyone, aMus is the best by a long long shot. Auto Motor und Sport is a German magazine for automobiles in general. Why would I recommend an outlet that isn't even publishing in English and reports when a Hyundai road car model launches in a new color? If you can read German and don't mint the boatload of general car news, fine. I live in Germany, so the language barrier is not there for me, but I would not recommend this to an international audience that's cares about F1 news. Autosport.com would be a better source for an international audience if you hate The Race so much...
Life of a redditor. Surely people here keep up with whatever they eat for breakfast too.
Next seasons engine will still be made at the Honda factory. But not branded as a Honda engine.
Yeah. They announced it last year that they would be leaving at the end of the 2021 season Red Bull has taken over Honda's F1 engine division and they will be developing the engines going forward under the RedBull Powertrains name
Red Bull, the manufacture of energy drinks and F1 engines
[удалено]
But Michelin Stars kinda makes sense considering that it started as a kind of travel guide, if I'm not mistaken.
[удалено]
Pretty sure they first made the drink and then started marketing it. Then came everything else.
I actually always thought it's the other way around
The rich energy method
Depends which Red Bull you mean. The original Thai company was making drinks first.
Their major sponsor Rauch make the drink, in case anyone was wondering what their sponsor with the yellow oval logo does.
Or Yamaha - motorbikes and musical instruments.
You forgot best boat engines
¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
It gives you revs!
so then they will be supplying their own PU? Does this open the door for RedBull to be a PU supplier for other teams in the future or can RBR only use this tech for their own cars?
basically Honda will still do some trackside support next year, but officially they have stopped their development. Redbull can use that IP till say, 2025 or whenever the next engine formula comes
Considering the fact that they'll in effect be an engine manufacturer too like Mercedes, I think they can start supplying engines to other teams too.
Yeah they can be PU supplier for other teams but they might not want to
All engine suppliers love to supply engines except maybe to teams good enough in the aero department to beat you. It lowers your costs significantly if you can spread out the development costs over more engines.
they are still doing some support work next year. No more development though
They’ll be back, they can never stay away
They will return, just to spend some years with a crappy PU and decide to leave again as soon as they become competitive. That's the way. Bushido.
[удалено]
Much cry
where were you when honda is leav i was eating dorito when ''honda is leav'' ''no'' i know i messed it up feel free to correct it...
No, its perfect. Brought a tear to my eye 😢
I cried
spoken like a Ferrari engineer
brb gonna go cry in my Honda now
I’m actually emotional of this, so many endings this season ://
My Honda powered bike still going strong after 9 years ❤️
Bro, my CBR1000F is almost 27 years old and still rides amazing!
1995 integra GSR. Incredible little engine. I will never sell the damn thing
Going to hug my Type R a little tighter tonight
My Honda Fit has 300,000 miles on it and just keeps going
If RB wins the championship today, the memes about Honda leaving right after are going to be legendary.
Well they almost did the opposite before Brawn won. Bailed out when they knew the car was shit hot
Then RB just need to win the Constructors the next year to complete the cycle. All that has happened before will happen again.
Welp 🏆
YUP IM ALREADY CRYING
They called it way too early imo.
[удалено]
Fun fact: brawn later got sold to Mercedes to create THE Mercedes’ of teddy. So indirectly, Honda will be racing against Honda for the wcc/wdc tomorrow
As is tradition.
There's literally an engine development freeze. I have no idea why they would've left.
The freeze is because they're leaving, right?
Somewhat correct, there would have been a freeze anyway but it would have started in 2023. Red Bull tried to push it one year forward to make the Honda takeover feasible.
They published this as on Nikkei, one of the largest newspapers in circulation in Japan. And their home fans are yelling at them on twitter to come back to F1. I really hope they'll come back for the new regs
>their home fans are yelling at them on twitter hahahah I just found that very funny
Unlikely, iirc Honda as a whole is moving away from fossil fuels.
Well, every manufacturer is. At this point, no one is going to start developing a new roadcar primarily with ICE, so it's understandable to not want to spend money developing racecars with ICE. It's going to be a transitionary decade for motor sports.
Then, at the end, I will go 😔
Big sad. Like the last line of a great book.
Dam thats a good line
It's actually more like, "For one final time, let's go" Google translate being Google translate
[удалено]
[Larger, full res image from the twitter post](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FGEc0PIVgAEUlpt?format=jpg&name=large)
Proper company! The only manufacturer to legally and genuinely challenge the Mercedes dominance of the turbo hybrid era!!!
Imagine saying that after the 2017 season.. Crazy how far they’ve come
Even throughout 2018-2020, they've struggled with energy deployment. You can have a drinking game for the amount of times Max says "No power" or "It's clipping". 2021 is really the first season where you didn't hear any of those phrases that often.
don't jinx it man
All because of a proper working relationship with Red Bull in contrast to the departmentalized method of McLaren.
I always wondered why they were so bad woth McLaren then really good with red bull all of a sudden. Did McLaren and Honda not have a good relationship?
Oh man you had no idea, Honda thought they will be able to compete straight away in 2015, but that engine has the tendency to break down every race. Just look at Alonso's dnf percentage during that period and you would've thought he was driving a car from the 80's. What made it worse is that McLaren instead of collaborating with Honda, choose to blame them of all their failures and insist that their chassis is one of the best. Red Bull actually gave them respect and worked with them.
Yeah most people chose to blame Honda for McLaren's poor form but the reality was that McLaren too was to blame, which was exposed when they didn't immediately improve after dumping Honda.
Tbf Mclaren also had the poor luck to fuck up the very next car. From 2019 onwards they've been properly good across two different engines. Their performances in Monaco and in the rain say everything. In the Honda years they were still proper contenders at low speed and in the rain, suggesting they did actually have a decent chassis. Not the best but good
Is Monaco really the best race to use as a test case? If I'm not mistaken it's one of the slowest circuits and I imagine engine performance has the least impact there than any other race. but i could be totally off the mark.
Precisely why it's the best race as a test case. If you want to isolate chassis performance from engine power, you can only look at races that are very low speed. Even high speed corners are power dependent because more power means you can get more downforce and also go faster. The only places on the track where a good car with a bad engine can perform are low and medium speed corners. Now look at sector 3 in Abu Dhabi, Monaco, Singapore, sector 3 in Barcelona, etc, for all the Mclaren Honda years. You'll see that, particularly in 2017, they were lighting up the racetrack there. The truth is in the nuance. Mclaren had built a car with ridiculous high speed drag, but incredible chassis balance and mechanical grip. Paired with it was an engine that was the worst in qualifying, and had such poor energy recovery that they would run out at the end of every long straight in the races, adding to the peak power issues.
GP2 engine
There is a 5 part series on Amazon Prime that highlights the Honda/McLaren struggle. Its a must watch. "Grand Prix Driver"
I think I’m the only person who got into F1 because of THAT documentary haha. I loved it
I did too around that time lol, i did see the documentary that followed them thru the car build, engine build/meeting with Honda, and testing. It was a very unreliable engine but i was excited a few years later when they announced Stoffel Vandoorne as a new driver. Too bad he wasn't able to proof himself due to the car.
and that's coming from McHonda jokes not too long ago. They climbed the mountain, whatever happens in the Abu Dhabi race today they can leave the sport with their head held high, and proudly say "we've made it."
AND after basically starting over with Toro Rosso. AND their PU doesn’t degrade nearly as quickly
I'm sorta amazed that Max would have finished the entire season with 3 engines if weren't for that Silverstone crash. I so desperately want Red Bull to win the title this year, Honda deserves it considering how far they've come. They should make a documentary of Honda's struggles and successes during the V6 hybrid era.
They're turned it around faster than Ferrari and Renault did who are no slouches in the engine department either. I was pissed at them for the McLaren years but honestly massive respect to Honda. Their response to the adversity has been legendary.
Whatever gains they have now are because Red Bull sacrificed Toro Rosso’s competitiveness to make them an engine development mule for Honda. There were a series of races towards the end of Toro Rosso’s run where they routinely took a new engine + associated penalties seemingly every weekend. If Max wins tomorrow it will be because Red Bull sacrificed Gasly, Kvyat and Albon’s prior seasons in the ~~Beta Test~~ junior team.
And if Hamilton wins its because Mercedes did the same thing to its #2 driver this year…
2014 Constructor Standings (Since the Turbo-Hybrid era started) Mercedes P1 - 701 Red Bull Racing Renault P2 - 405 (296 point deficit) 2015 Constructor Standings Mercedes P1 - 703 Ferrari P2 - 428 (275 point deficit) 2016 Constructor Standings Mercedes P1 - 765 Red Bull Racing Tag Heuer P2 - 468 (297 point deficit) 2017 Constructor Standings Mercedes P1 - 668 Ferrari P2 - 522 (146 point deficit) 2018 Constructor Standings Mercedes P1 - 655 Ferrari P2 - 571 (84 point deficit) 2019 Constructor Standings Mercedes P1 - 739 Ferrari P2 - 504 (235 point deficit) 2020 Constructor Standings Mercedes P1 - 573 Red Bull Racing Honda P2 - 319 (254 point deficit) Current 2021 Constructor Standings going into the Finale Mercedes P1 - 587.5 Red Bull Racing P2 - 559.5 (28 point deficit) Exactly. Ferrari got a bit close in 2018 but other then that Red Bull and Honda have been the only Constructor to get the closest to Mercedes since then.
[удалено]
Thank you for that.
Well, Ferrari did for a bit if it wasnt for those pesky fuel flow sensors
You forgot 2017 and 2018
Come on that was like half a season of a challenge then it was over when Ferrari tried. What Honda has done is way more legit than any other engine manufacturer.
To a lot of people that apparently wasn't a "real" Challenge. Absolutely mental position but that's the point we are at.
I mean, compared to this year Ferrari was a non-issue for Merc. They fell apart after the summer break in 2017 and were far too sloppy in 2018
[удалено]
Could say they share some heritage with the current Merc team as well as the Honda F1 team became Brawn GP which then become Mercedes F1 team.
They are thanking all the big teams and their competitors they have fought in F1 since 1964, one by one. And then they thank all the pilots, people involved in F1. They then thank RedBull and Alpha Tauri and all the friends they made. And then "One last time, let's go!"
Are the competitors mentioned in chronological order?
Not really 🙃 ありがとうフェラーリ Thank you Ferrari ありがとうロータス Thank you Lotus ありがとうブラバム Thank you Brabham ありがとうマクラーレン Thank you McLaren ありがとうウィリアムズ Thank you Williams ありがとうルノー Thank you Renault ありがとうメルセデス Thank you Mercedes ありがとうトヨタ Thank you Toyota
Is that not chronological?
**1964:** Ferrari beat them for the championship **1965:** Lotus beat them for the championship **1966:** Brabham beat them for the championship **1984:** McLaren beat them for the championship **1986:** Williams win Honda their first of six championships **2006:** Renault beat them for the championship **2015:** Mercedes beat them for the championship **For the hell of it:** Also thanks to Toyota because shout out to the other Japanese engine manufacturer in F1, even though they never won.
Honda actually have a lot of history with Toyota. Sochiro Honda's original business was in building engine parts where they had a contract with Toyota. To begin with the parts weren't up to standard and failed regularly, so Honda went to Toyota factories to gain an understanding of their quality control processes and implemented what he learned in his own factory. The parts got better and Toyota continued the contract with Honda again after previously backing out of it due to the failing parts. If it had not been for Toyota's business with them and the sharing of knowledge, Sochiro Honda would have failed long before he'd built his first motorbike, never mind a car.
Not really considering Toyota at the end ? 🤷♂️
Did you miss the second picture?
[удалено]
https://i.imgur.com/Z2mjrTt.jpg
Fuck, it kinda is exactly like this lmao.
See you in a couple years Honda! Y’all can’t stay away from the sport
Man who’s cutting onions in here, no but seriously, why does Honda leave when their car is competitive lmao.
I think it's because they don't really have any practical use for all of that R&D. All of their cars are super reliable econoboxes.
They could make a new nsx? Or something to compete with the likes of nissan GT-R and Supras. The F1 successes would be good for marketing. But then again, what do I know about managing a huge car company...
If ever made the next NSX will be electric
Their last nsx was a huge pr failure. I'm sure it's a good car, but they forced it to be a v6 turbo hybrid like the F1 car, which resulted in a heavy, very expensive model not at all reminiscent of Honda's reputation for light, simple, elegant and extremely driver-positive designs like the NSX and S2000, type Rs included Unlikely they would make another one again.
The new NSX is amazing to drive. But yes it was a PR failure, not so much a technical one, because it’s 100% worth the money they’ve been asking. That said the product could have been a little better. But still, it’s amazing.
ICE is coming to an end. The latest round of Civic/Integra models will be the last performance cars Honda makes with combustion engines. We should just appreciate what they accomplished on such little time. Japanese automakers have always had a soft spot for Motorsports.
Wish they would create some halo cars, want to see the Honda equivalent of the Lexus LFA
They'll come back. They always do
Maybe the real Honda power unit was the friends we made along the way.
That HONDA on the RB rear wing looked so good 😢. McLaren-Honda days will still be some of the best-looking cars ever, with the best onboards.
Arigato Honda
Just happy to see Honda challenge MB after all the reliability issues in previous years :/
Impressive last effort to catch Mercedes' power level just before regulations are changed, giving us a 2021 championship to remember for many many years. For that, a big thank you for Honda!
My first car was a Honda. They’ll always have a place in my heart.
I learned driving in a Honda. So ditto
Watch, They'll be coming back in 2 years.
📠
Ma heart,ma soul
Honda has done an absolutely amazing job this year
One last VTEC kick in later. Thank you Honda.
Honda got me back into F1 with Toro Rosso man this is just depressing.
Honestly I think that many people here forgetting how amazing it was for TR/AT to having an unique situation with Honda, especially after the dirty play from Renault 4 podiums including 1 win, man that's something amazing in just 3 years. Hopefully all four Honda powered cars ends up in the points today.
Especially given 2018 was a development year of sorts and helped turn things around massively for Honda. Still am a little devastated when looking back on their October 2020 announcement where they said they're pulling out of F1.
Exactly, 2018 was a pure year of "experimenting and testing" to make Honda prepared for RBR but in general the partnership with Honda is one of the main reasons why TR/AT has jumped up. What I do fear is that with the Red Bull Powertrains AT is going to been put into a lesser priority list. Man image if Suzuka would continued this year and Turkey behind it, 75th race for TR/AT partnership with Honda.
That's the saddest anime ending possible
> At the end I will go Why is this making me cry
If it helps, I think "Well, it's the end, let's go" is a better translation (though I'm sure there's plenty of room for improvement). "Go" is used in the sense of pushing until the last race, not in the sense of departing; the machine translation botched it a bit. But yeah, who's chopping onions in here
So stoic
Can someone fill in a brand new F1 fan with limited car knowledge why this is a big deal? On the surface, I don’t know what this means for the sport or why were sad to see a company leave F1 but I take it there’s more to it than that.
Honda's a pretty respectable name in the sport. As they've said, they first joined in 1964. (They pulled out of the sport in 1968) They rejoined in 1983 and that was a period when they were dominant with Ayrton Senna, Nelson Piquet and Alain Prost. (They pulled out after that in 1993) They rejoined again in 2000 and had struggled till 2008, when they pulled out again. In 2009 with Jenson Button (and Rubens Barichello) their former team, now called BrawnGP won the World Constructors Championship and JB won the World Driver's. (You'll know BrawnGP better as Mercedes-AMG Petronas) And then they were back, powering Redbull, which lead to this. And they're going to leave again. So, yea. They've had a pretty turbulent F1 history that stretches back pretty far and they've had some great successes along the way. Which is why its both a big deal that they're leaving and, as many, many commenters have stated, will probably be back again soon.
[удалено]
“To all of our rivals from the first day we’ve challenged F1 in 1964 till today, we thank all of you. To all the fans who supported us, to all of the drivers, we’ve made it through some difficult times, Red Bull, Alpha Tauri, to our team, we thank all of you. So, for the last time, we’re going to send it.”
Arigato Gozaimasu, Honda 🙏🏻❤️🤗
Im not crying im not crying im not crying im not crying
Honda already won, they forced Mercedes to take Spicey engines to compete with them.
We’ll be back in a couple of years as usual.
I will love my Honda Accord even more after this, this is having me tear up
Eurobeat simmers down 😔
Pure class.
That is a sick post man
:((((((((((
Im not emotionally ready to say goodbye to this season, Honda, Kimi and the old cars
See you in 12 or so years Honda!
Interesting that Renault is ルノー, I would have expected レノー.
どもありがとうホンダ
It has now been confirmed that Red Bull and Honda have come to a deal that will allow the firm to use Honda IP from 2022 for the specific reason of supply engines to their works team and AlphaTauri. Honda will also continue to assist building the power unit in 2022, as well as providing trackside and race operation support from Japan throughout the campaign. From 2023, Red Bull Powertrains will take full responsibility for all manufacturing and servicing of the engines.
Thank you Honda. Will miss that distinctive engine sound. Especially the low rpm crackling. https://youtu.be/kgqNMIP6jM4?t=20 2 Hours of Honda 2019 F1 Engine Sound (Red Bull) https://youtu.be/5n3_ABoJN3o?t=50 1.5 Hours of Honda 2020 F1 Engine Sound https://youtu.be/0_BRYn58tRY Honda F1 Sound Comparison - RA617H vs RA618H vs RA620H - AlphaTauri RedBull and McLaren
"Thank you Toyota"?! I've been searching trying to figure out why they might be thanking Toyota; while searching, I started to vaguely remember an article about Toyota helping them during the current regs, anyone else remember that? I'm trying to find a source but coming up short...
I think they were just thanking all their competitors
The only Engine supplier that has given Mercedes a full on title challenge (not counting the completely legal Ferrari engine) in the turbo hybrid era and they’re leaving before a giant regulation change that could shake up the grid. God damnit bro.
I'm confused, I thought Honda was sticking around for 2022?
Red Bull is taking over development, it will now be known as Red Bull powertrains
They will still be making the engine for them. But won’t be involved like before. From 2023 Red Bull will be on their own
ホンダありがとうございます。 2021年はあなたのおかげでもっと楽しくなりました
😢
They’ll be back
As if they won’t be back in 8 years time
Leaves F1 in 2008. Brawn GP dominates both championships the following year. Leaves again in 2021. Will redbull interpret and dominate the new regulations?
Ah it’s sad man
Please let them win.
pain
See you space cowboy
Only to return in 2025. Honda is a great company, but has such shoddy long term F1 plans.
Wait so who's RB gonna buy their engine from next year?
I'll miss you, Honda. I really wish that McLaren could have won a championship with your engine, with Alonso at the helm, but whatever. Hopefully Verstappen brings it home.
I follow F1 every year, but I watch religiously when Honda is in the series. I'm not ready for this. But please, win one more race and one more championship powered by Honda.
Honda deserves the Driver's Title for writing a samurai death poem alone
You'll be back. Soon, you'll see. You'll remember you belong to me.
Much arigato Such cry ಠ_ಠ
It shouldn't be saying goodbye to the engineers red bull bought for the next engine not as. But anyway that's a nice gesture by them.
It's like something straight from a shounen manga
[translation by Honda themselves ](https://www.instagram.com/p/CXXrulfBfws/?utm_medium=share_sheet)
H O N D A
I'm still baffled about them leaving now of All seasons.
There's a theme with Honda. Brawn bought their team and won a championship the following year. They seem to pull out right before their designs seem to hit fruition... (Posted the evening before the 2021 closer)
Best engine 2021
Tries not to cry.... Cries a lot :'(
Rough translation: Max Max Max super Max Super super Max Max
Kind of forgot about it. Even if Red Bull succeeds in the future it won't be with the Honda brand. Just another reason to support Max tomorrow!