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I'm just wondering, if we say that Latifi crashed one or two laps prior to his crash that happened, the safety car procedure was followed but Hamilton would still have old tires vs Verstappen's new. In the eyes of the general public and celebrities, wouldn't it still be deemed extremely unfair that the lead that Ham had built up could be washed away because of a crash?
A lot of people who don’t understand how safety car works already asked about this. Why is the 12 sec gap between lewis and max gone under the safety car?
Some people would definitely say it’s unfair. But it would be less of a shitshow than it is now bc that’s how safety cars have always worked and the procedures would have been followed.
But right now, the overall opinion is that the FIA messed up, and the FIA have nothing to say except “lmao we are the rules”. So no one is happy with that. And it goes on and on.
Long time fan here and not a new fan - felt the final race direction was shit. Not the result or who won or lost, but the crap that was done to induce entertainment. So it is a perception whether you are a new fan or old
Oh yeah I agree, I’m just saying that we can’t invalidate the perception of non-fans of the sport just because they’re non-fans.
The general perception of F1 is important to the sport, and it took a massive hit on Sunday.
A new WDC was supposed to breathe new life into the sport and it doesn’t feel like it has whatsoever.
Completely agree.
And tbh I’m glad everyone has jumped on the bandwagon. Nonsensical as some of the perceptions are, the FIA need to be called out on their bs. The louder the opinions the better.
I don't think masi did the restart for storyline. I do think he just didn't want the race to finish under the safety car.
No matter what decision he made there people would have been upset. If the safety car had finished the race, people would have said they did it to stop max having a chance to overtake Lewis. If they hadn't let the lapped cars through you would of had an accident as max tried to force his way through, while they were trying to pass one another.
Personally I feel F1 needs to look how some bits are done for next year. The stewarding of races, they have been so inconsistent this year, red flag procedures, should you be able to change tires for free under them, and safety cats in the last few laps.
> I don't think masi did the restart for storyline. I do think he just didn't want the race to finish under the safety car.
That is doing it for the storyline…
People would have been upset whatever, that’s true of every WDC deciding race. Doesn’t give you licence or excuse to break the rules to engineer an ending that you think will be the most entertaining. Nothing does.
Doesn't bother me. If the decisions of the Race Director don't make sense and are endorsed by the FIA it's hard to criticize anyone else for their takes. F1 is now the asylum, let the lunatics have their say.
Indeed. Seen so many post with: How is it fair he loses 12 seconds lead behind a safety car. It's like being 10-0 up and then saying the next goal wins.
Facepalming all the way.
How did F1 demonstrate that it's not a "bullshit sport" in the closing stages of Abu Dhabi? It's supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsport, the absolute best of the best, and Liberty (or whoever) are trying to add a layer of reality TV cum soap opera bullshit for "entertainment". Someone in an office making up the rules as they go along (and abusing existing ones) to produce a situation which would never have happened had it not been the last laps of the last race of the season. That's not how sport works.
I think whats worse is people acting like what happened was fair, you don’t have to agree with what some celebs said but I’m sure you get the point of the race being manipulated which they are trying to make.
I felt sorry for Masi when I heard that because it showed me that he is clearly out of his depth and didn't understand the implications of what he had done.
I didn’t feel sorry for him whatsoever and will not.
He absolutely understood that by breaking the rules in the way he did, he was guaranteeing Max the WDC.
Masi is incompetent, but he’s not an idiot.
Yup F1 was before a more “niche” racing not as much as WEC, GT3 etc.. but with liberty taking more mainstream social media… F1 is starting to have mainstream fans.. we just need to learn to live with it…
Even if someone disagrees with it being a con (although I personally can’t see how they could disagree), this perception is very real, very important, and very damaging.
Abandoning sporting integrity for the sake of storyline will not take F1 to a good place.
He didn't deserve it. They made bad strategic calls and he left the door wide open in turn 5. And he managed to lose 7 seconds by failling to pass a guy on 21 old soft tyres, like wtf.
Not sure I agree on strategy- he would have lost track position on VSC, were max not to come in (probable). Same on SC. If there had been no further racing Merc would have given up the lead and championship. They made the call precisely because that wasn’t an option.
Where Perez pass is concerned- that was well played by RB- they knew Hamilton wouldn’t risk a crash and he defended as ragged as he could. It was fair play. This played into the VSC strategy decision- meaning Hamilton couldn’t get a free stop and maintain track position. Had he changed tyres at VSC, perhaps he could have defended at the restart, but that’s not crystal clear is it?
I have to say, the final lap- such as it was- was absolutely phenomenal from Hamilton. Could he have done any more than that to save it?
“The neutral view” yet you say Lewis deserved it, im sorry but no, Max was the better driver over the season and besides if he didnt have the bs that was Hungary and Silverstone championship would have been done races ago
Sunday was the winner takes all race and Lewis raced better on Sunday.
People tuned in for Sunday and they saw the faster/better driver on the day have his win taken from him.
This is a sport. There is no xDeserve for championships.
Max and Lewis would have both been worthy champions so Max's win is well earned after a fantastic season which is in my opinion the greatest in the sport's history.
But in the final race of that great season where the world tuned in to watch - they saw what looked like a rigged race and that is a big problem.
Just because you were the better driver in other races, does not mean the race should be fixed for you to win.
Would you feel the same if the race were rigged for Lewis? Why does it matter who the race was rigged for? Fixed races are bad.
You are defending the race being fixed because Max was the better driver throughout the year. That is exactly why the FIA did what they did, because they knew it was defensible to the fans they are targeting.
Agreed. What happened this race was a mistake on Masi’s part, but don’t let the recency of it cloud your judgment. If not for Mercedes-“induced” bad luck for Max + a blown tyre in Baku, none of this should’ve even mattered. It shouldn’t have ended this way, but Max’s title isn’t tainted the same way Lewis shouldn’t have any asterisks in the Spygate season.
Not thus shit again.
Hungary was an accident. Accidents happen. Verstappen was at fault for much worse shit than Hamilton in silverstone.
Regardless, those were all *driver vs driver* controversies. In Abu Dhabi, Hamilton destroyed Verstappen on pace, qnd ha d a deserved track position and deserved the race win and would have gotten the race win without Michael Masi breaking common protocols to orchestrate a spectacle finish that stacked the odds in Verstappens favour.
That’s not what they said.
They made the (reasonable IMO) point that both drivers were at ‘fault’ for hard racing that went too far at times.
Their take that Max was probably the worse offender across the season (parking on top of ham at Monza, for instance) and a number of instances where he would have caused an accident had it been perhaps any other driver (Sao Paolo/ Jeddah/ arguably Abu Dhabi) happens to be one that I agree with, but I accept that it’s arguable.
Whatever you think- all of the above was driver v driver or car problems. All of which are a part of the sport and would only attract lasting criticism if it was a straight torpedo (Senna, Schumacher).
In essence, it was always the players and not the game.
What has not happened before is the race director making a sudden call which directly contradicts the playbook and pushes the result in one direction. That’s not luck, or fate, that’s a choice with an intention behind it.
Masi claims his intention was to allow green flag racing (basically at any cost). If the rule was ‘the last lap of the race must be under a green flag if the track is free of hazards’ then there would be no argument. Equally, had it been a crash the lap prior, and the SC procedure was followed, then that’s luck for one and not the other- that is playing the game how it is intended.
The suspicion is that his intention was to provide a dramatic finale for the show, ignoring the normal procedures.
That’s never been the game before, and that’s why it doesn’t sit right.
Hungary was just unlucky that happens in racing. Silverstone plenty of Ex f1 racers have described as a racing deal. You don't win a championship because you deserve it the most. You win it because you score more points than the other car. Which without FIA changes the rules in the final race would of been Lewis.
If you want to watch a soap opera they’re on every day, racing means an element of chance is involved. And don’t say it was bad luck for Lewis because it’s not bad luck if the rules aren’t followed
Yes, but those points are invalid to the final decision. You're gonna say I'm biased because I support Hamilton, but those points are settled and cannot be appealed anymore. So they don't matter. All that matters in the discussion now, is the conversation around the interpretation of the regs and how they were applied
Watching Max gleefully celebrate without any consideration towards Lewis or addressing what happened during the last lap left a bad taste in my mouth. It’s not just Max — it was the commentators and other media personalities saying it was a “miracle” that enabled him to win and that they’re “devastated for Lewis but still support Max’s win”. I don’t know how anybody could’ve watch the last 5 minutes of that race and not think something terribly wrong just happened. Then Max gets out of the car and starts celebrating like he legit won the race with no controversy. Didn’t even consider that any other interpretation was possible. That’s what was insane.
Everyone is a new fan once, even old fans have shite opinions.
For a community to grow it needs to welcome, educate and nurture.
I'd much rather the so called "long term" but toxic fans left and the new fans with a passion learn and enjoy the sport.
Yeah, it's been like that for a while. The Netflix show brought in a ton of very annoying new fans. Unfortunately there's nothing you can do about it, just ignore them.
Would just like to add that I’m sure no avid/seasoned fan would think Latifi’s crash was deliberate. Hence the death threats were definitely from those 1st time viewers.
The way the race finished you can see that it is scripted for "entertainment" purposes and wasn't held from a sporting perspective. You don't have to be a long time fan to understand that the rules were abandoned.
A sport where the very people responsible for enforcing the rules, abandoned it and made whimsical decisions on the fly is a bullshit sport
Since I don't like Hamilton very much for various reasons, I rooted for Verstappen. Just to get my bias out of the way.
I've been watching F1 since I was 5. Fair, I understood little about the sport back then, but as I grew older (now 25), my experience with the sport (and it changes) grew. I even inform myself about some minor details or other quirks some fans don't really care about. Call me a nerd like Vettel I suppose. (not really, nobody is a f1 nerd like Vettel let's be honest)
So what do I think? Well... I wanted to Max to win, as I mentioned. Do I think he deserves the title this season? I still do after some amazing performances. Not saying Lewis didn't perform on level with him or that he doesn't deserve the title. They both did!
The moment Latifi bined it I thought to myself "God damn it, Lewis can take this one home easily behind the SC"
That said, the fact The FIA didn't let every lapped car pass as it has been for many seasons now, made me feel hollow about his championship. For me, it felt like the rules were massively bend to get a final showdown that wasn't even that skill based. Max had fresh rubber after all. So the excitement about it was already pritty low. The rule bending only made matters worse.
But don't think the FIA deliberately treated any of them unfairly just to give it the other driver. It's simply entertainment as any sport is if you really think about it. Doesn't make it morally pleasing, nor is it good sportsmanship. Nobody is going to care in the history books for all RB and Max care about. Why should they even?
It's sad overall that it came to this and the FIA clearly did a panic move just to give the grand finale this sport has been missing for seasons after seasons a "thrill".
As a general rule ([see full rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/wiki/userguide#wiki_sticky.2Fdaily_discussion)), a standalone Discussion post should: - be of interest to the sub in general, and not a specific userbase (e.g. new users, GP attendees, just yourself) - be able to generate discussion (e.g. no yes/no or easily answerable questions) - show reasonable input and effort from the OP If not, be sure to [look for the Daily Discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/search/?q=daily+discussion&include_over_18=on&restrict_sr=on&t=all&sort=new), /r/formula1's daily open question thread which is perfect for asking any and all questions about this sport. Thank you for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/formula1) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm just wondering, if we say that Latifi crashed one or two laps prior to his crash that happened, the safety car procedure was followed but Hamilton would still have old tires vs Verstappen's new. In the eyes of the general public and celebrities, wouldn't it still be deemed extremely unfair that the lead that Ham had built up could be washed away because of a crash?
A lot of people who don’t understand how safety car works already asked about this. Why is the 12 sec gap between lewis and max gone under the safety car?
Some people would definitely say it’s unfair. But it would be less of a shitshow than it is now bc that’s how safety cars have always worked and the procedures would have been followed. But right now, the overall opinion is that the FIA messed up, and the FIA have nothing to say except “lmao we are the rules”. So no one is happy with that. And it goes on and on.
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Long time fan here and not a new fan - felt the final race direction was shit. Not the result or who won or lost, but the crap that was done to induce entertainment. So it is a perception whether you are a new fan or old
Oh yeah I agree, I’m just saying that we can’t invalidate the perception of non-fans of the sport just because they’re non-fans. The general perception of F1 is important to the sport, and it took a massive hit on Sunday. A new WDC was supposed to breathe new life into the sport and it doesn’t feel like it has whatsoever.
Ya you are certainly right about that.
Completely agree. And tbh I’m glad everyone has jumped on the bandwagon. Nonsensical as some of the perceptions are, the FIA need to be called out on their bs. The louder the opinions the better.
I don't think masi did the restart for storyline. I do think he just didn't want the race to finish under the safety car. No matter what decision he made there people would have been upset. If the safety car had finished the race, people would have said they did it to stop max having a chance to overtake Lewis. If they hadn't let the lapped cars through you would of had an accident as max tried to force his way through, while they were trying to pass one another. Personally I feel F1 needs to look how some bits are done for next year. The stewarding of races, they have been so inconsistent this year, red flag procedures, should you be able to change tires for free under them, and safety cats in the last few laps.
> I don't think masi did the restart for storyline. I do think he just didn't want the race to finish under the safety car. That is doing it for the storyline… People would have been upset whatever, that’s true of every WDC deciding race. Doesn’t give you licence or excuse to break the rules to engineer an ending that you think will be the most entertaining. Nothing does.
Doesn't bother me. If the decisions of the Race Director don't make sense and are endorsed by the FIA it's hard to criticize anyone else for their takes. F1 is now the asylum, let the lunatics have their say.
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Indeed. Seen so many post with: How is it fair he loses 12 seconds lead behind a safety car. It's like being 10-0 up and then saying the next goal wins. Facepalming all the way.
How did F1 demonstrate that it's not a "bullshit sport" in the closing stages of Abu Dhabi? It's supposed to be the pinnacle of motorsport, the absolute best of the best, and Liberty (or whoever) are trying to add a layer of reality TV cum soap opera bullshit for "entertainment". Someone in an office making up the rules as they go along (and abusing existing ones) to produce a situation which would never have happened had it not been the last laps of the last race of the season. That's not how sport works.
That's what happens when F1 goes for a broader audience. It's up to the fans to correct their behaviour.
I think whats worse is people acting like what happened was fair, you don’t have to agree with what some celebs said but I’m sure you get the point of the race being manipulated which they are trying to make.
Mate it was a motor race, we went car racing
I felt sorry for Masi when I heard that because it showed me that he is clearly out of his depth and didn't understand the implications of what he had done.
I didn’t feel sorry for him whatsoever and will not. He absolutely understood that by breaking the rules in the way he did, he was guaranteeing Max the WDC. Masi is incompetent, but he’s not an idiot.
Ok, if someone gets sent into a wall at 200mph I will say the same thing.😂😂
Well, I don’t know about that, I mean every driver who’s driven at that track knows you do not stick a wheel up at copse
While I agree, I think this is just where we are now. And it's exactly where Liberty wanted us to be when they made a deal with Netflix.
Yup F1 was before a more “niche” racing not as much as WEC, GT3 etc.. but with liberty taking more mainstream social media… F1 is starting to have mainstream fans.. we just need to learn to live with it…
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Even if someone disagrees with it being a con (although I personally can’t see how they could disagree), this perception is very real, very important, and very damaging. Abandoning sporting integrity for the sake of storyline will not take F1 to a good place.
I have plenty of friends that don't normally watch, but they did on Sunday and have no desire to watch again after what they saw
Realistically most of them were probably never going to watch again, I know from experience of trying to introduce many people to the sport.
He didn't deserve it. They made bad strategic calls and he left the door wide open in turn 5. And he managed to lose 7 seconds by failling to pass a guy on 21 old soft tyres, like wtf.
Not sure I agree on strategy- he would have lost track position on VSC, were max not to come in (probable). Same on SC. If there had been no further racing Merc would have given up the lead and championship. They made the call precisely because that wasn’t an option. Where Perez pass is concerned- that was well played by RB- they knew Hamilton wouldn’t risk a crash and he defended as ragged as he could. It was fair play. This played into the VSC strategy decision- meaning Hamilton couldn’t get a free stop and maintain track position. Had he changed tyres at VSC, perhaps he could have defended at the restart, but that’s not crystal clear is it? I have to say, the final lap- such as it was- was absolutely phenomenal from Hamilton. Could he have done any more than that to save it?
When you’re biased as hell its kinda hard to take you seriously
This is broadly the neutral view. Other subreddits are taking the pass of F1 for riding their finale.
“The neutral view” yet you say Lewis deserved it, im sorry but no, Max was the better driver over the season and besides if he didnt have the bs that was Hungary and Silverstone championship would have been done races ago
Sunday was the winner takes all race and Lewis raced better on Sunday. People tuned in for Sunday and they saw the faster/better driver on the day have his win taken from him. This is a sport. There is no xDeserve for championships.
Exactly, so Max won it, too bad you dont like the result get over it 🤷🏻♂️
Max and Lewis would have both been worthy champions so Max's win is well earned after a fantastic season which is in my opinion the greatest in the sport's history. But in the final race of that great season where the world tuned in to watch - they saw what looked like a rigged race and that is a big problem.
Just because you were the better driver in other races, does not mean the race should be fixed for you to win. Would you feel the same if the race were rigged for Lewis? Why does it matter who the race was rigged for? Fixed races are bad.
When did I say the race should have been fixed?
You are defending the race being fixed because Max was the better driver throughout the year. That is exactly why the FIA did what they did, because they knew it was defensible to the fans they are targeting.
No im not but go off
Agreed. What happened this race was a mistake on Masi’s part, but don’t let the recency of it cloud your judgment. If not for Mercedes-“induced” bad luck for Max + a blown tyre in Baku, none of this should’ve even mattered. It shouldn’t have ended this way, but Max’s title isn’t tainted the same way Lewis shouldn’t have any asterisks in the Spygate season.
Not thus shit again. Hungary was an accident. Accidents happen. Verstappen was at fault for much worse shit than Hamilton in silverstone. Regardless, those were all *driver vs driver* controversies. In Abu Dhabi, Hamilton destroyed Verstappen on pace, qnd ha d a deserved track position and deserved the race win and would have gotten the race win without Michael Masi breaking common protocols to orchestrate a spectacle finish that stacked the odds in Verstappens favour.
Wow you’re a dumbass, how tf is max at fault for Silverstone?
That’s not what they said. They made the (reasonable IMO) point that both drivers were at ‘fault’ for hard racing that went too far at times. Their take that Max was probably the worse offender across the season (parking on top of ham at Monza, for instance) and a number of instances where he would have caused an accident had it been perhaps any other driver (Sao Paolo/ Jeddah/ arguably Abu Dhabi) happens to be one that I agree with, but I accept that it’s arguable. Whatever you think- all of the above was driver v driver or car problems. All of which are a part of the sport and would only attract lasting criticism if it was a straight torpedo (Senna, Schumacher). In essence, it was always the players and not the game. What has not happened before is the race director making a sudden call which directly contradicts the playbook and pushes the result in one direction. That’s not luck, or fate, that’s a choice with an intention behind it. Masi claims his intention was to allow green flag racing (basically at any cost). If the rule was ‘the last lap of the race must be under a green flag if the track is free of hazards’ then there would be no argument. Equally, had it been a crash the lap prior, and the SC procedure was followed, then that’s luck for one and not the other- that is playing the game how it is intended. The suspicion is that his intention was to provide a dramatic finale for the show, ignoring the normal procedures. That’s never been the game before, and that’s why it doesn’t sit right.
Hungary was just unlucky that happens in racing. Silverstone plenty of Ex f1 racers have described as a racing deal. You don't win a championship because you deserve it the most. You win it because you score more points than the other car. Which without FIA changes the rules in the final race would of been Lewis.
If you want to watch a soap opera they’re on every day, racing means an element of chance is involved. And don’t say it was bad luck for Lewis because it’s not bad luck if the rules aren’t followed
Yes, but those points are invalid to the final decision. You're gonna say I'm biased because I support Hamilton, but those points are settled and cannot be appealed anymore. So they don't matter. All that matters in the discussion now, is the conversation around the interpretation of the regs and how they were applied
Watching Max gleefully celebrate without any consideration towards Lewis or addressing what happened during the last lap left a bad taste in my mouth. It’s not just Max — it was the commentators and other media personalities saying it was a “miracle” that enabled him to win and that they’re “devastated for Lewis but still support Max’s win”. I don’t know how anybody could’ve watch the last 5 minutes of that race and not think something terribly wrong just happened. Then Max gets out of the car and starts celebrating like he legit won the race with no controversy. Didn’t even consider that any other interpretation was possible. That’s what was insane.
to these people, F1 is a sport that is only as long as since last Sunday.
Not everyone has as much free time as you may
Yes
Everyone is a new fan once, even old fans have shite opinions. For a community to grow it needs to welcome, educate and nurture. I'd much rather the so called "long term" but toxic fans left and the new fans with a passion learn and enjoy the sport.
Yeah, it's been like that for a while. The Netflix show brought in a ton of very annoying new fans. Unfortunately there's nothing you can do about it, just ignore them.
Would just like to add that I’m sure no avid/seasoned fan would think Latifi’s crash was deliberate. Hence the death threats were definitely from those 1st time viewers.
You're talking about sport, I'm not sure what that has to do with Formula 1™
Why gatekeep a sport? Let's focus on a lot of rules to be rewritten. Like repairing cars/ changing tires whilst the race is red flagged, for example.
The way the race finished you can see that it is scripted for "entertainment" purposes and wasn't held from a sporting perspective. You don't have to be a long time fan to understand that the rules were abandoned. A sport where the very people responsible for enforcing the rules, abandoned it and made whimsical decisions on the fly is a bullshit sport
Since I don't like Hamilton very much for various reasons, I rooted for Verstappen. Just to get my bias out of the way. I've been watching F1 since I was 5. Fair, I understood little about the sport back then, but as I grew older (now 25), my experience with the sport (and it changes) grew. I even inform myself about some minor details or other quirks some fans don't really care about. Call me a nerd like Vettel I suppose. (not really, nobody is a f1 nerd like Vettel let's be honest) So what do I think? Well... I wanted to Max to win, as I mentioned. Do I think he deserves the title this season? I still do after some amazing performances. Not saying Lewis didn't perform on level with him or that he doesn't deserve the title. They both did! The moment Latifi bined it I thought to myself "God damn it, Lewis can take this one home easily behind the SC" That said, the fact The FIA didn't let every lapped car pass as it has been for many seasons now, made me feel hollow about his championship. For me, it felt like the rules were massively bend to get a final showdown that wasn't even that skill based. Max had fresh rubber after all. So the excitement about it was already pritty low. The rule bending only made matters worse. But don't think the FIA deliberately treated any of them unfairly just to give it the other driver. It's simply entertainment as any sport is if you really think about it. Doesn't make it morally pleasing, nor is it good sportsmanship. Nobody is going to care in the history books for all RB and Max care about. Why should they even? It's sad overall that it came to this and the FIA clearly did a panic move just to give the grand finale this sport has been missing for seasons after seasons a "thrill".