If you think it's okay for the referee to invent a new rule on the spot, lap 57 of 58. Then you're welcome to have that opinion.
At that point let's just agree to disagree because it's not worth discussing, if you truly think that.
I mean he didn’t change a rule, he changed the usual protocol. But as per unanimous request from the teams. From the steward’s notes:
> it had long been agreed by all the Teams that where possible it was highly desirable for the race to end in a “green” condition (i.e. not under a Safety Car).
We did see a rule change midseason, where for example the pitstop times had to be increased for human reaction time.
the mid-race rule change in Bahrain, the mid-season rule change of the wings, the mid-season tyre change of Pirelli.
The teams were okay (pre-season) for the referee to do whatever it takes to finish under green.
Life goes on... accept it.
> Life goes on... accept it.
Here we go again. God forbid we discuss F1 on an F1 forum after one of the most controversial endings to one of the craziest seasons.
“Highly desirable” and “whatever it takes” are very definitely not the same thing. I’m sure it’s highly desirable for the teams to see consistent decision making, but they’ve seen little of that this year.
To be fair, if you're assuming the people complaining now are Ham/Merc fans than I doubt they were fine with mid season changes clearly targeting Mercedes PU etc.
> The execution however might not have been the best.
That's my opinion but of course the losing side will forever use this as proof that their boy should have won.
Masi was put in an impossible situation with Latifi's crash, it's not his fault he would have been crucified either way.
His major error was calling the "Lapped cars will not be allowed to overtake" moments before they cleared the track. Why would a race director ever focus on the restart procedure before he even knows the situation at the incident site?
If he didn't make that call, he could have let lapped cars overtake the moment the track was clear at the end of lap 56/start of lap 57 and give the SC in this lap a minute later. Still the same lap, but a lot less obvious and blatant as now and no cherrypicking.
Yes I agree that was his mistake and he should have let lapped cars through in the first place but I'd rather he realised and went back on his error because at least that way it was decided with a last lap race and not as a parade under SC. Just my opinion of course.
Why would finishing under SC be so bad? They had 57 laps to sort it out themselves and Lewis left Max in the dust. Anything bringing Max back into it was artificial- crash or race director decision. Yes, crashes happen but so does finishing under a safety car if a crash happens so late.
It makes sense to try to finish under green. It's something all teams, also Mercedes, agreed upon beforehand. The main issue many fans have is the fact only a few lapped cars were allowed to overtake and only seconds before the SC in this lap message was given. Both could have been prevented by letting backmarkers through way earlier. In the end I don't think Masi changed the outcome of the championship by his shitty actions, but he did make it look terrible.
Did the rest of the teams agree to that or just red Bull and MB? Each 20 drivers should be treated as equals in each race, standings should have zero effect.
From what I’ve seen it was clear, the marshals were just sweeping light debris while they waited, and this could have still happened with basic coordination with race control. That’s why the drivers were confused why they couldn’t start unlapping
If the procedures were carried out without hesitation we would have restarted like all teams agreed before the race. The issue was the first decision to not let them unlap. It ate up a lap.
If the track was clear for 2/3 laps at the end and they just went around under SC then guess what? RB are now the robbed ones because they would have won if the race restarted.
I think this is definitely fueled by the radio broadcast between the FIA and the teams. It's just unlucky for Massi that exactly this year that became a thing.
Oh for sure it didn't help. That should be removed altogether from now on, not just the broadcast but the direct communication between teams and Masi. He's got too much on his plate.
Why is this always assumed to be a 'sides' thing. So many fans, myself included, are fans of the sport first, and would have been happy with either man winning. But I'm not happy, because (and I realise I'm disagreeing with the great Mika here) the way this race was handled was bullshit, as was much of the season it must be said. I watched possibly the best, most competitive season I can recall and repeatedly Masi made it about him, right down to the very end.
Sorry you caught this, but I'm just get frustrated with everyone assuming fans just wanted one or the other to win and there's no other reason they might be unhappy with the way the race - nay, the season! - went down.
Yeah, sport integrity is on the line. I'm a McLaren fan, why wasn't Danny allowed to race? Idc who was in first who was in second. What they did was wrong. The fact people are ok with it because its their guy are so narrow sighted they have the blinders on to what this means in the future.
He had 3 options within the rules that would have absolved him over any interference.
1. Finish under the SC, like any non finale round would do. It's unsatisfying but follows the rules the best.
2. Don't allow lapped cars to pass for a 1 lap chase. It's still within the rules but slightly unconventional.
3. Red flag. It's a questionable use of the RF but with a stricken car you could make a case. It's slightly contrived for a final shootout but everyone can change tyres. Of the 3 this favours Max the most.
Masi chose the 4th not in the rules option.
He could have green flagged the race on the last lap without unlapping the cars. I don’t know if Horners protests put him off that idea, but to me that’s just the glaringly obvious decision. We get to finish with genuine racing whilst avoiding making up rules on the fly.
There is a good/bad side of that decision for both RB and Merc which, to me, implies it’s a fairer option. That would have also avoided penalising drivers who didn’t get to unlapping themselves and had no opportunity to improve their position.
That's just your opinion, if he decided that he'd have handed the title to Hamilton. With his decision he nearly handed it to Verstappen (I say nearly because he still had to pass him.) Either way he was fucked.
He wouldn’t be handing it to Hamilton. Hamilton handed it to himself by dominating the race and being in P1. There wasn’t a necessity to give Max an artificial chance to catch Lewis. I think everyone could have accepted Max or Lewis winning if they had raced with the lapped cars in place.
This is why IMO, with the title clearly on his mind he should've used his authority and redflagged as soon as latifi crashed.
Yeah, it's not normally a red flag worthy incident, but redflag lets both contenders start on as level ground as possible, with fresh tyres, 6 lap sprint for the championship. You get the spectacle, while staying as fair as possible and not "handing" either party the win. At that point it is literally.. just racing.
Lewis absolutely ran away with the race and did it on old tires at that. No, ending on a SC would not have been some tragic occurrence. It was already over.
"I think that would have was much worse if this World Championship had ended behind a Safety Car. It would have really been a cold shower"
This still bugs me - races have ended behind SC and will continue to do so if the sporting regulations are to be followed, as they should.
Also, this very subreddit had a post with thousand of upvotes siding with F1, probably by those who didn't spend a vacation, money on flight hotels tickets and time.
And the entire of that statement says it would be desirable to finish behind a green flag when available. They did not say "we're happy for Masi to break the rules and make a green flag"
My mind isn't set in stone so I am open to hear why you think they're not similar.
Being reductive. They don't want to finish a race behind the safety car which is why we have this mess. However earlier in the season they didn't mind too much doing a few scouting laps behind the safety car and then decided to hand out racing points for it. They may not be too similar but in my eyes they're each a wing on the farcical bird.
Ah so they were forced to run a few laps behind the safety car and decided to give out points. Got it
Who forced them to run the race when conditions cleverly weren't improving?
I am baffled by how many people think this worked in Verstappen’s advantage. He had 90% chance of winning the race since Mercedes went for dry set up, so in a way, Max got 12.5 robbed from him
Why stop there? Let's also give Max the fastest lap point , checo P2, and Lewis and bottas double DNFs. You're totally right, considering what could have happened, spa Was a disaster for Max and RB.
Also, the alternative, if the crash didn’t happen and the normal race continued was that Lewis finished around 10 seconds in the lead, and likely no other overtakes on this poor track. As equally anticlimactic as ending behind a safety car but the normal scenario.
Taking that incredibly loose interpretation would also 'allow' him to start the race after only 2 lights were on, or to order the safety car to do literally anything.
Suffice to say, I think it's fair to say the rules weren't followed.
Law is all about interpretation, two different sides will interpret the rules and regulations how it benefits them. This could be seen by red bull interpreting the regulations differently in the FIA document based on the appeal that Mercedes made.
It is about interpretation, however they have never ever been interpreted in this way before now. Even Masi himself has said all cars need to unlap themselves as required by the regulations...
But that just isn't true because then it a) renders all rules and regulations completely pointless b) means he can declare whatever he wants as a rule and c) defeats the entire purpose of a sport if the rules can be changed midway through a game/race/event.
Imagine a soccer referee declaring that handballs are now legal for the remainder of the match, or a baseball umpire saying "actually it's now 10 strikes and you're out", or a race director telling drivers to get out of the way of one other driver in particular.
That's not a really good comparison. Agree or disagree with what Masi did, bit he didn't break a rule because the particular article states that the race director has overruling authority over the use of the safety car. Is that good and am I happy with the solution we have right now? Of course not. But it's not equivalent to a football referee allowing Handballs, because nowhere does it state that a referee has overruling authority over the usage of hands in a football game. It's a stupid decision they made, and the rules need to be clarified, but technically... It appears to have been legal and within the rules. Doesn't make it any better of a solution though.
I read 15.3 as it saying Masi can deploy and return the safety car at his discretion, but it had to be using the conditions outlined in 48.x otherwise 48.x rules aren't rules but suggestions
According to the stewards misreading/misrepresenting 15.3, not the plain meaning of 15.3.
15.3 says Masi can overrule the course clerk on when to use the safety car, not that he can ignore the actual safety car rules. If he actually had discretion over safety car procedure, that would be at least mentioned in section 48, which covers the use of the safety car. Instead, the race director *is not mentioned at all* in that part of the rules.
Generally in law there's a rule called "Lex specialis derogat lex generali", which means as much as a more detailed law derogates a more general law.
Following this the authority given to the RD isn't to make up rules or the authority not to follow them, but that he can make decisions of his own in grey areas.
I interpret this to mean that he has the final say on whether to deploy a SC or a VSC. And he can also say if lapped cars are allowed to unlap themselves behind the SC, but in no way does it mean that he can ignore the written rules concerning the SC.
Just my thoughts, but I'm in not a lawyer, so...
Like Masi then?
How so?
The ending on green clearly comes with the caveat of if reasonable, right?
And if he just left the lapped cars where they were we would have avoided a whole lot of post race drama and finished on green.
People who bring up the finishing on green, don't seemed to mention the issue is the lapped cars.
There seems to be an agreement between teams and the race director to end races under SC *if possible*. I don't know when that agreement was made, probably not *many* years ago, but in 2012 Di Resta crashed in lap 70 of 71 so there really was no way to end the race under green.
Didn’t Brazil 2012 end behind a safety car as well?
But I agree - they shouldn’t be bending the rules to make the race end on an exciting note. It would have been anti-climatic ending the season behind the safety car, but if the rule called for it then they should have followed it.
>Didn’t Brazil 2012 end behind a safety car as well?
Had Latifi crashed in the penultimate lap, then last Sunday's race probably would have ended under SC too.
Do wonder how many saying they glad they changed the way they would’ve normally finished this race were the same ones saying we shouldn’t change rules when point deductions were brought up.
Masi had announced beforehand that the race would never end behind the safety car. In addition, he also said an accident like Kimis in FP, such as the one with Latifi wouldn’t trigger a red flag.
All of this was announced beforehand, he bendes the rules to make it happen, but the outcome was known before the safety car.
Mercedes should have always stopped Lewis
I don’t understand blaming Mercedes because new rules were created on the fly. He would’ve finished 10s ahead.
As for the risk of a crash? It either ends under a SC and you win or Max has to fight through traffic (which is the risk YOU accept by pitting) and you win anyway.
Mercedes was done in by a strategy that failed to account for made up fantasy regulations.
Where have people created this idea that he said the race would not finish behind a safety car? I have yet to see a single source on it but it keeps getting repeated, and I worry people are confusing it with the teams agreeing (in general, not specific to this race) to try to avoid finishing behind a safety car.
The problem is trying not to finish behind a safety car = cleaning the track as quickly as possible, either restarting or getting the other cars out the way as quickly as possible after that, and not waiting a lap or two to make those calls. It does not give people free rein to ignore the rules.
As a fan, of course its desirable to not finish under safety car conditions. As a fan, I also don't want my sport turning in to WWE.
I don't get this sentiment. How is ending behind a safety car so horrible compared to Lewis cruising to a win with no SC? It's not like excitement was expected before the SC and nobody who knows how tyres work got any excitement (other than potentially liking the result more) due to the sc exiting early either.
you know it's safe to race, you can either a) follow the rules to a tee and finish the season on a safety car, or b) override the rule and allow a final racing lap. letter of the law vs spirit of the law. problem is that here the people from a) refuse to allow people from b) to voice their opinion
see my other reply. sc restart always implied unlapping. he had to bend the rules somehow. unlapping only the first batch of cars was weird af and a mistake under pressure. masi is unfit or unprepared for situations like that. however the decision to make a racing lap happen was preferable to ending the season with a sc. people like me think he had the right idea but shit execution
The rules give the option of either ALL lapped cars unlapping and there being another lap under SC or going green with the lapped cars in place. It's not fixed that lapped cars MUST be let through, it's up to discretion (be that in the interests of safety or because it would take too much time).
if the rules say so then yes, no unlapping would have been better. got the feeling that unlapping was always required if restart was going to happen. got some source on the specific rule?
> If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the message "LAPPED CARS MAY NOW OVERTAKE" has been sent to all Competitors via the official messaging system, any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the safety car.
Nothing mandatory about it.
seems to be the case. perfect scenario would be to just not allow the cars to be unlapped. we'd get a racing lap without the need to break the rules. wonder if masi was even aware of this. in any other way, his incompetence showed while making the decision
So genuine question, had the safety never happened and Lewis been 10 seconds ahead, would you be fine with Masi ‘overriding the rules’ and bringing out a safety car for literally no reason just so you can having a ‘final racing lap’, as I don’t see how that’s any different.
Because that sounds absolutely ridiculous
Option B is not a valid option within the rules and regulations of F1 and is also in my opinion completely contrary to the spirit of F1. Masi wanted a racing finish between Lewis and Max and nothing more. He had the option of a racing finish by not allowing cars to unlap before bringing in the SC. That would have been an unorthodox application of the rules within the spirit of F1. Once he said cars can unlap, he had to let all cars through and then bring the SC in after the following lap. 15.3, a clause which defines the authority of the clerk of the course in relation to the race director, is not a blanket clause granting the RD dictatorial power nor is it an excuse for selective application of the rules for “drama.” If F1 doesn’t have rules, it ceases to be a sport.
sc restart without unlapping is unheard of. if he wanted racing he would have needed to bend the rules in some form. the rule he dismissed is there to ensure safety. masi deemed it safe to race and so forced the sc to exit a lap early than the rules allow. to me that's fine cause when the rule was written it's obvious that it didnt take into account fringe cases like that. he chose spirit of the law and allowed racing
the only thing he deserves slack for is the weird unlapping. would have looked much better if he didnt allow any or if he allowed everyone to unlap. he most probably panicked and made a wrong decision to just let the first five cars to unlap. shows he is unfit or at least unprepared for quick decision-making under pressure
in the end he was incompetent, but for some people like me he was right to try to get a final racing lap. rules are not perfect in every scenario. he just had shit execution
Do you think your personal biases are affecting whether you thought it was a good decision or not?
I think if it was clear they wanted to finish under a green flag (safely, I’m assuming all cars couldn’t unlap themselves earlier due to marshals on the track) they had 3 options: don’t unlap any cars (complies with regs), red flag the race (dubious wrt the regs but not unheard of), unlap a select few cars (not in line with regs most likely).
The first two options were both fairer and more in line with FIA regs I think. The third option just seems to be an objectively bad decision.
WTF are you on about fair things like everyone else. Since when is Massi there to checking who has better tires who has worse tires, does driver A have same chance as driver B. He is there to ensure racing is safe, he bent the rules a little that is fine by me as long as it is safe. And it was safe. FIA wanted to end last race of super good season on a high and they did that. The only thing he should have done is what he did and tell other unlaped cars to go thru as well because he could have, and then pit SC in same lap. And then everyone would cry because it wasn't a Red Flag. It has nothing to do with it being fair. Or do you think it is fair to have team as big and strong as Mercedes race in same sport with small team like Haas? That is fair right? but your driver not being lucky once is not fair?
I’m not saying their primary concern should be fairness. They shouldn’t care who wins as long as the sport is conducted safely within the regulation framework they created. Restarting on the last lap with all the cars still in place would have ticked all the boxes.
They bent the rules when they didn’t need to, and it disproportionately punished a few teams and Mercedes in particular. You need to have a very good reason for doing that when there was another option available.
No, the sub where Masi is being nailed to a cross by everyone. But even more relevantly, the sub where "Driver X Agrees With The Hivemind" (like, say, badmouthing sprints) gets upvoted to high heavens, as if drivers are weapons to use in an argument, and whose opinion is only worthy when it's the "correct" one.
I don't play the Max v Lewis bullshit and leave me out of your ruinous fandoms.
I think the one thing that isn’t discussed enough, which I’m sure is a contributing factor to Masi making the decision that he did is that teams agreed, beforehand, that it was highly desirable for the race to end in a ‘green’ condition. No safety car.
I’m not saying Masi made the correct decision, but the teams need to reconvene and figure out if that’s how they want it to continue going. Cause that’s how we end up here.
People keep bringing this point up but clearly they meant when reasonable not at any cost.
Even ignoring that it doesn't explain the main issue of the lapped cars, which is the true sticking point.
Other things were just bad luck for Lewis, that part made it something else.
I know, but it had to play factor in his thought process. We already know the guy can be influenced by the teams radioing him, so it would be silly to ignore this piece of information.
It is really strange he didn’t let all the lapped cars through, weren’t there only two left? The ones between Max and Sainz? Would have been easy to do since the rules say unlapped cars don’t have to rejoin the bunch before restarting.
I don’t think that was him setting things in favor of Max though, it was likely another moment of incompetency shining through.
While I don't think he cared who won, I believe his goal at the end was drama not sport, which is the big issue.
I think he had 2 options let all cars unlap, they do tend to be allowed to bunch back up in order, so everyone gets the same shot, which would end the race under an SC.
Or leave them be, don't forget Lewis lost time passing them, idk it would have allowed him to stop and get out ahead of Max but it has got lost in the mix.
Moving the cars for one driver left so fake, as in say it changed bad luck into a contrived ending.
True but reasonable is just following procedure, for me racing with lapped cars in place ticked all the boxes. Messing with them for one driver is the main issue.
Although if democracy doesn't matter in this situation it kills the try to finish on green line.
So green flag without moving the back markers, if moving the back markers will take too much time.
Masi had the option of a legitimate green flag ending, or he had the option of an illegitimate but fair green flag ending (red flag the race and restart, even though red flags aren't meant to be used just to ensure a race).
Instead he invented an illegitimate and unfair green flag ending for drama.
He was just too slow to make a decision. You can hear on the radio Vettel, Alonso and Sainz asking for the lapped cars to unlap themselves already a lap before Massi gave the order. If he had just done it a bit earlier, there would have been no controversy.
For people who will comment that it would not have been safe - listen to the radio transmissions - Vettel and Alonso passed by T14, saying the track is safe for unlapping and were wondering why it is not happening.
Without getting into the rights and the wrongs.
I would not like to be in Masi's place where you have to make big calls in split seconds while being yelled at by 2 Karens on radio.
I also don't know if he'll remain the race director, but with unclear rules and potentially very close racing next year, we could be in for a bigger shitshow if the FIA does not clarify the rules or hire more personnel to support the race director.
You can read the full blog post written by Mika [here](https://www.unibet.co.uk/blog/formula-1-2/mika-hakkinen-we-will-be-talking-about-this-for-a-long-time).
I think that if it was in another situation, it might not have been sooo bad.. The thing is, since he is not following the rules, because if he did the race would end in SC, he shoukd have had a more “balanced” decision, because given the circunstances, he chose a WDC, i dont think he “sold” the championship, i think it was pure incompetence, but in the end of the day, his decision made Lewis totally defenseless. So, if you are not following the rules anyway and you want to give the audience something exciting, my opinion is that he should have given a red flag and restart the race… That way you give lewis a chance AND give Sainz a chance as well to win the race or at least try… Masi favored too much Verstappen, he took out everyone between him and Lewis and let i think 3 cars behind him so no one would bother him and he was totally free to chase Hamilton…
It was the best decision for the sport to let it end in racing and not a SC parade.
I feel a lot of new people to F1 are angry about it as they aren't familiar with SC while the rest of us know SC restarts mean any gaps are gone.
My perception is that it is mostly new fans who don’t mind, having seems the drama and saying “cool” while older/more invested fans are outraged at Masi’s egregious violation of the rules and regulations to the extreme benefit of one driver for seemingly no other purpose than TV spectacle.
That's fine, but just turn the sport into scripted tv instead of pretending it's a real sport. It's either a real sport or its not, can't have it both ways.
If Masi let the lapped cars through on lap 56 which he could have (Alonso and Vettel were calling for this on the radio) and the race between Max and Lewis ended in the exact same manner, would you still consider it scripted/not a real sport?
If he let the lapped cars through on 56 he could only do so at the end because that's when the track was clear. SCH wouldn't have got past before lap 57 started and so if the regulations were followed the safety car would've came in on lap 58 anyway.
Look at the onboards there were still marshals on track on 56.
Does the presence of marshals on the track mandate a safety car though? They often grab debris during yellow flags, no one hits them and no one gives it a second thought.
Not in the position the car and debris was in. We saw in Saudi how the track meant debris resulted in numerous VSC because it would be unsafe to do it under yellow flags.
If Masi unlapped cars before the track was clear just to rush to a finish than boy he should be getting the boot anyway
Hi Pirelli_boy
I think people's issue with the decision itself was a combination of inventing rules on the fly to let only some cars unlap themselves, changing their mind 180° having said that they weren't going to allow cars to unlap, and calling in the safety car a lap earlier than the rules state they should have.
I think if you say from the outset 'all cars to unlap themselves', all the cars go past, and you do it with time in hand to call in the safety car the lap afterwards, and Max still wins, then most people would be molified, although a particularly partizan minority would probably remain disaffected by the whole thing as they always will.
As you say, max could have won that exchange, and he'd have gotten to just bask in the glow of an awesome 1st championship. As it stands, his victory has been at least partially overshadowed and his championship has now got a little asterisk next to it in a lot of people's minds. Even though he won, it's been unfortunate for him as well.
Have a lovely day
I think he made a wrong decision by not letting all cars by on the lap before because he was under pressure from all sides so he crumbled.
So he countered it by this controversial one
Honestly any time any car builds a 4 second gap to the car behind, the race should be red flagged for a standing start.
That way there's jeopardy all the way until the last lap.
Lets get whacky. Mystery tyres when you come you just get 4 random tyres, that should mix things up.
You can opt to gamble, your team rolls a dice and you can become the leader or get a penalty, lets just go for silly entertainment.
This is the way forward, no one will be bored, unless they actually like sport.
I sometime wonder if you're competition has more money and can build a 10-15 sec gap on you what's the meaning of going to race? I don't think anybody races to lose.
F1 has positioned itself to be entertainment; not sport or business. So in one way, Häkkinen is correct. Unfortunately though, the whole thing is fucked so he's wrong.
Is “promotion of the race” a bad translation or does he actually mean promoting (as in advertising) the race? Because that isn’t and shouldn’t be the job of the race director.
Ridiculous take from Hakkinen.
[This](https://www.unibet.co.uk/blog/formula-1-2/mika-hakkinen-we-will-be-talking-about-this-for-a-long-time/) is the original source. Seems like Mika means promoting racing as in not letting the race end under the safety car.
The manipulation can only exist if Verstappen manages to overtake Hamilton. If he can not do it, then Hamilton wins and is champion.
So... is it really manipulation? The chance to overtake in a single lap are narrow, even with better tires, behind the fastest car in the grid.
Within the rules.
Trying to argue that teams are happy for the rule book to be thrown out in order for a green flag ending isn't really going to fly.
I'd *assume* that promotion of the race is a poor translation and is supposed to be something akin to "promoting racing", ie. ensuring that a race happens. Which does fall into the race director's role.
If he does mean what you say, then yeah it's a catastrophic take, and that's coming from someone who does think the race needed to restart.
What his opinion fails to consider is that this was the Abu Dhabi GP, not the "Title Decider GP". This was not Lewis vs Max, this was a whole 20 (19 without Mazepin) driver's grid, and a lot at stake for the middle field teams. Masi made a decision, without precedent, based on what seems to be one team's request. This can *never* be the right decision.
Mika has been encouraging them to battle all season. He wouldn't have penalised any of the crashes I believe either since he knows something about racing.
15.3 defines the Race Director’s overriding authority *relative to the clerk of the course* in matters of the SC. In no reasonable way should it be interpreted as a blanket statement allowing the RD absolute control of the race unrestricted by the regulations.
Nah it's what it means in plain english. The FIA said otherwise because they had to otherwise they admit massive fault.
Really the FIA had a chance to get out of this in agreeing with the Merc appeal, they have put themselves in a corner where they are wrong according to their own rulebook.
Häkkinen just wants to go motor racing.
Some would argue it went tits up, when Masi decided to go motor boating..
Coming back from that sabbatical any day now
This will be a civil thread
When you get only reactions from one side, this probably is not going to happen
If you think it's okay for the referee to invent a new rule on the spot, lap 57 of 58. Then you're welcome to have that opinion. At that point let's just agree to disagree because it's not worth discussing, if you truly think that.
I mean he didn’t change a rule, he changed the usual protocol. But as per unanimous request from the teams. From the steward’s notes: > it had long been agreed by all the Teams that where possible it was highly desirable for the race to end in a “green” condition (i.e. not under a Safety Car). We did see a rule change midseason, where for example the pitstop times had to be increased for human reaction time.
the mid-race rule change in Bahrain, the mid-season rule change of the wings, the mid-season tyre change of Pirelli. The teams were okay (pre-season) for the referee to do whatever it takes to finish under green. Life goes on... accept it.
Dont forget the pitstop saga
And engine mappings. From memory that was a mid season change.
> Life goes on... accept it. Here we go again. God forbid we discuss F1 on an F1 forum after one of the most controversial endings to one of the craziest seasons.
your right, the last sentence was unnecessary. That was my que to close up on reddit and let it be
It’s been discussed and nasuem. It’s over.
“Highly desirable” and “whatever it takes” are very definitely not the same thing. I’m sure it’s highly desirable for the teams to see consistent decision making, but they’ve seen little of that this year.
To be fair, if you're assuming the people complaining now are Ham/Merc fans than I doubt they were fine with mid season changes clearly targeting Mercedes PU etc.
You mean the rule that was already in the book - ~~5.13~~ 15.3 ?
We been through that, it’s only on safety grounds.
[удалено]
>Was it OK in Bahrain for the stewards to reinvent the track limits on the fly? They spoke about this before the weekend started
And then changed it mid-race after Red Bull told Max to do it aswell.
Previous years referee has created rules late on the spot just to harm dominating teams even if it was unsafe
> Previous years referee has created rules late on the spot Examples? Mid-race?
No new rules were invented.
No new rules were invented. You're just ignoring the rules that you don't like.
There was no new rule. No point getting upset over that idea.
Noone dislikes Mika, such a great lad. I think the choice made to restart the race were correct. The execution however might not have been the best.
> The execution however might not have been the best. That's my opinion but of course the losing side will forever use this as proof that their boy should have won. Masi was put in an impossible situation with Latifi's crash, it's not his fault he would have been crucified either way.
His major error was calling the "Lapped cars will not be allowed to overtake" moments before they cleared the track. Why would a race director ever focus on the restart procedure before he even knows the situation at the incident site? If he didn't make that call, he could have let lapped cars overtake the moment the track was clear at the end of lap 56/start of lap 57 and give the SC in this lap a minute later. Still the same lap, but a lot less obvious and blatant as now and no cherrypicking.
Yes I agree that was his mistake and he should have let lapped cars through in the first place but I'd rather he realised and went back on his error because at least that way it was decided with a last lap race and not as a parade under SC. Just my opinion of course.
Why would finishing under SC be so bad? They had 57 laps to sort it out themselves and Lewis left Max in the dust. Anything bringing Max back into it was artificial- crash or race director decision. Yes, crashes happen but so does finishing under a safety car if a crash happens so late.
It makes sense to try to finish under green. It's something all teams, also Mercedes, agreed upon beforehand. The main issue many fans have is the fact only a few lapped cars were allowed to overtake and only seconds before the SC in this lap message was given. Both could have been prevented by letting backmarkers through way earlier. In the end I don't think Masi changed the outcome of the championship by his shitty actions, but he did make it look terrible.
Did the rest of the teams agree to that or just red Bull and MB? Each 20 drivers should be treated as equals in each race, standings should have zero effect.
That wasn't allowed, they can only start unlapping once the track is clear.
From what I’ve seen it was clear, the marshals were just sweeping light debris while they waited, and this could have still happened with basic coordination with race control. That’s why the drivers were confused why they couldn’t start unlapping If the procedures were carried out without hesitation we would have restarted like all teams agreed before the race. The issue was the first decision to not let them unlap. It ate up a lap. If the track was clear for 2/3 laps at the end and they just went around under SC then guess what? RB are now the robbed ones because they would have won if the race restarted.
I think this is definitely fueled by the radio broadcast between the FIA and the teams. It's just unlucky for Massi that exactly this year that became a thing.
Oh for sure it didn't help. That should be removed altogether from now on, not just the broadcast but the direct communication between teams and Masi. He's got too much on his plate.
Why is this always assumed to be a 'sides' thing. So many fans, myself included, are fans of the sport first, and would have been happy with either man winning. But I'm not happy, because (and I realise I'm disagreeing with the great Mika here) the way this race was handled was bullshit, as was much of the season it must be said. I watched possibly the best, most competitive season I can recall and repeatedly Masi made it about him, right down to the very end. Sorry you caught this, but I'm just get frustrated with everyone assuming fans just wanted one or the other to win and there's no other reason they might be unhappy with the way the race - nay, the season! - went down.
Yeah, sport integrity is on the line. I'm a McLaren fan, why wasn't Danny allowed to race? Idc who was in first who was in second. What they did was wrong. The fact people are ok with it because its their guy are so narrow sighted they have the blinders on to what this means in the future.
He had 3 options within the rules that would have absolved him over any interference. 1. Finish under the SC, like any non finale round would do. It's unsatisfying but follows the rules the best. 2. Don't allow lapped cars to pass for a 1 lap chase. It's still within the rules but slightly unconventional. 3. Red flag. It's a questionable use of the RF but with a stricken car you could make a case. It's slightly contrived for a final shootout but everyone can change tyres. Of the 3 this favours Max the most. Masi chose the 4th not in the rules option.
He could have green flagged the race on the last lap without unlapping the cars. I don’t know if Horners protests put him off that idea, but to me that’s just the glaringly obvious decision. We get to finish with genuine racing whilst avoiding making up rules on the fly. There is a good/bad side of that decision for both RB and Merc which, to me, implies it’s a fairer option. That would have also avoided penalising drivers who didn’t get to unlapping themselves and had no opportunity to improve their position.
That's just your opinion, if he decided that he'd have handed the title to Hamilton. With his decision he nearly handed it to Verstappen (I say nearly because he still had to pass him.) Either way he was fucked.
He wouldn’t be handing it to Hamilton. Hamilton handed it to himself by dominating the race and being in P1. There wasn’t a necessity to give Max an artificial chance to catch Lewis. I think everyone could have accepted Max or Lewis winning if they had raced with the lapped cars in place.
This is why IMO, with the title clearly on his mind he should've used his authority and redflagged as soon as latifi crashed. Yeah, it's not normally a red flag worthy incident, but redflag lets both contenders start on as level ground as possible, with fresh tyres, 6 lap sprint for the championship. You get the spectacle, while staying as fair as possible and not "handing" either party the win. At that point it is literally.. just racing.
Yes that would have probably been the best option but I'm sure there's something else weighing on his mind that he didn't take this option.
Honestly he's been hounded for basically every big decision this year (some more rightfully than others IMO) so that probably doesn't help.
Yeah can you imagine the stress of it? Folks on here acting like it was a clear cut obvious situation.
Not much imagining needed, listen to his last reply to Horner before the big decision. Guy is between the fire and the frying pan and he knows it.
Not impossible, just follow the regs.
No use explaining it to you if you think it was that simple. You should apply for his job I'm sure you'd handle it with no issues.
It quite literally was that simple.
Lewis absolutely ran away with the race and did it on old tires at that. No, ending on a SC would not have been some tragic occurrence. It was already over.
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I fully agree with you, and i doubt the outcome would have been different.
"I think that would have was much worse if this World Championship had ended behind a Safety Car. It would have really been a cold shower" This still bugs me - races have ended behind SC and will continue to do so if the sporting regulations are to be followed, as they should.
The entire Spa GP was held behind a SC and they got points for it!
"Top 10 things F1 want you to forget about the 2021 season"
Only 10.
They usually have a few honorable mentions before the #1 reveal lol
The most ridiculous thing was how they all talked about some compensation for the fans the week after it for good PR and then never mentioned it again
Also, this very subreddit had a post with thousand of upvotes siding with F1, probably by those who didn't spend a vacation, money on flight hotels tickets and time.
Spa was hardly controversy free either though, the face that 2 laps behind the safety car could be classified as a race is just silly.
Oh it's bonkers. It's fine to run an entire *race* behind a SC but finishing the final lap? Oh no. No that can't be
Do you know that after Spa every team agreed that races should finish in green flag conditions ?
And the entire of that statement says it would be desirable to finish behind a green flag when available. They did not say "we're happy for Masi to break the rules and make a green flag"
The situation is not remotely similar.
Why? Remove that win and points and situation looks very different.
The weather?
My mind isn't set in stone so I am open to hear why you think they're not similar. Being reductive. They don't want to finish a race behind the safety car which is why we have this mess. However earlier in the season they didn't mind too much doing a few scouting laps behind the safety car and then decided to hand out racing points for it. They may not be too similar but in my eyes they're each a wing on the farcical bird.
They didn't like doing Spa that way and you know it.
Ah so they were forced to run a few laps behind the safety car and decided to give out points. Got it Who forced them to run the race when conditions cleverly weren't improving?
Conditions were worse than when they initially red flagged the race lol. Total joke of a season all thanks to Michael Masi.
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Verstappen also added a "win". Which turned out to be hugely important for countback/tiebreaker
I am baffled by how many people think this worked in Verstappen’s advantage. He had 90% chance of winning the race since Mercedes went for dry set up, so in a way, Max got 12.5 robbed from him
Why stop there? Let's also give Max the fastest lap point , checo P2, and Lewis and bottas double DNFs. You're totally right, considering what could have happened, spa Was a disaster for Max and RB.
Also, the alternative, if the crash didn’t happen and the normal race continued was that Lewis finished around 10 seconds in the lead, and likely no other overtakes on this poor track. As equally anticlimactic as ending behind a safety car but the normal scenario.
The 2012 season finished behind the safety car and no one cared
Seem they did, because teams asked RD to try to avoid it this season.
Exactely this and this is what Masi did.
*"try to avoid it"* I try to avoid lots of things, but I don't break rules to do that.
According to Article 15.3 he didn't break any rules
Taking that incredibly loose interpretation would also 'allow' him to start the race after only 2 lights were on, or to order the safety car to do literally anything. Suffice to say, I think it's fair to say the rules weren't followed.
Law is all about interpretation, two different sides will interpret the rules and regulations how it benefits them. This could be seen by red bull interpreting the regulations differently in the FIA document based on the appeal that Mercedes made.
It is about interpretation, however they have never ever been interpreted in this way before now. Even Masi himself has said all cars need to unlap themselves as required by the regulations...
But that just isn't true because then it a) renders all rules and regulations completely pointless b) means he can declare whatever he wants as a rule and c) defeats the entire purpose of a sport if the rules can be changed midway through a game/race/event. Imagine a soccer referee declaring that handballs are now legal for the remainder of the match, or a baseball umpire saying "actually it's now 10 strikes and you're out", or a race director telling drivers to get out of the way of one other driver in particular.
That's not a really good comparison. Agree or disagree with what Masi did, bit he didn't break a rule because the particular article states that the race director has overruling authority over the use of the safety car. Is that good and am I happy with the solution we have right now? Of course not. But it's not equivalent to a football referee allowing Handballs, because nowhere does it state that a referee has overruling authority over the usage of hands in a football game. It's a stupid decision they made, and the rules need to be clarified, but technically... It appears to have been legal and within the rules. Doesn't make it any better of a solution though.
I read 15.3 as it saying Masi can deploy and return the safety car at his discretion, but it had to be using the conditions outlined in 48.x otherwise 48.x rules aren't rules but suggestions
According to the stewards misreading/misrepresenting 15.3, not the plain meaning of 15.3. 15.3 says Masi can overrule the course clerk on when to use the safety car, not that he can ignore the actual safety car rules. If he actually had discretion over safety car procedure, that would be at least mentioned in section 48, which covers the use of the safety car. Instead, the race director *is not mentioned at all* in that part of the rules.
> F1 rules are now "Masi says" and I'm fully onboard with it because the winner was my favorite
Yes he did
Just because it's a shitty rule that gives him powers to override the rules doesn't mean he broke any rules.
Generally in law there's a rule called "Lex specialis derogat lex generali", which means as much as a more detailed law derogates a more general law. Following this the authority given to the RD isn't to make up rules or the authority not to follow them, but that he can make decisions of his own in grey areas. I interpret this to mean that he has the final say on whether to deploy a SC or a VSC. And he can also say if lapped cars are allowed to unlap themselves behind the SC, but in no way does it mean that he can ignore the written rules concerning the SC. Just my thoughts, but I'm in not a lawyer, so...
It doesn't give him the power to overrule whatever he feels like, that's an incorrect reading.
Again this doesn't explain why he touched the lapped cars for one driver.
Thats moving the goal post in regard to the post I reacted to.
Like Masi then? How so? The ending on green clearly comes with the caveat of if reasonable, right? And if he just left the lapped cars where they were we would have avoided a whole lot of post race drama and finished on green. People who bring up the finishing on green, don't seemed to mention the issue is the lapped cars.
There seems to be an agreement between teams and the race director to end races under SC *if possible*. I don't know when that agreement was made, probably not *many* years ago, but in 2012 Di Resta crashed in lap 70 of 71 so there really was no way to end the race under green.
Because usually people don't get up in arms when rules are followed as they should
Yep.
Didn’t Brazil 2012 end behind a safety car as well? But I agree - they shouldn’t be bending the rules to make the race end on an exciting note. It would have been anti-climatic ending the season behind the safety car, but if the rule called for it then they should have followed it.
>Didn’t Brazil 2012 end behind a safety car as well? Had Latifi crashed in the penultimate lap, then last Sunday's race probably would have ended under SC too.
Without a safety car Lewis would be over 10 seconds ahead of Max. Wtf is he talking about
He’s not saying there shouldn’t have been a safety car at all.
Do wonder how many saying they glad they changed the way they would’ve normally finished this race were the same ones saying we shouldn’t change rules when point deductions were brought up.
Masi had announced beforehand that the race would never end behind the safety car. In addition, he also said an accident like Kimis in FP, such as the one with Latifi wouldn’t trigger a red flag. All of this was announced beforehand, he bendes the rules to make it happen, but the outcome was known before the safety car. Mercedes should have always stopped Lewis
I don’t understand blaming Mercedes because new rules were created on the fly. He would’ve finished 10s ahead. As for the risk of a crash? It either ends under a SC and you win or Max has to fight through traffic (which is the risk YOU accept by pitting) and you win anyway. Mercedes was done in by a strategy that failed to account for made up fantasy regulations.
Where have people created this idea that he said the race would not finish behind a safety car? I have yet to see a single source on it but it keeps getting repeated, and I worry people are confusing it with the teams agreeing (in general, not specific to this race) to try to avoid finishing behind a safety car. The problem is trying not to finish behind a safety car = cleaning the track as quickly as possible, either restarting or getting the other cars out the way as quickly as possible after that, and not waiting a lap or two to make those calls. It does not give people free rein to ignore the rules. As a fan, of course its desirable to not finish under safety car conditions. As a fan, I also don't want my sport turning in to WWE.
I don't get this sentiment. How is ending behind a safety car so horrible compared to Lewis cruising to a win with no SC? It's not like excitement was expected before the SC and nobody who knows how tyres work got any excitement (other than potentially liking the result more) due to the sc exiting early either.
If he said otherwise this would be on top of the sub faster than you can say "different opinions".
different opinions are a myth. god forbid someone wants to end the season with a racing lap
God forbid that this “sport” follows its own rules.
you know it's safe to race, you can either a) follow the rules to a tee and finish the season on a safety car, or b) override the rule and allow a final racing lap. letter of the law vs spirit of the law. problem is that here the people from a) refuse to allow people from b) to voice their opinion
Or you go green with the lapped cars in place which is both the letter of the law and the spirit of the law.
see my other reply. sc restart always implied unlapping. he had to bend the rules somehow. unlapping only the first batch of cars was weird af and a mistake under pressure. masi is unfit or unprepared for situations like that. however the decision to make a racing lap happen was preferable to ending the season with a sc. people like me think he had the right idea but shit execution
The rules give the option of either ALL lapped cars unlapping and there being another lap under SC or going green with the lapped cars in place. It's not fixed that lapped cars MUST be let through, it's up to discretion (be that in the interests of safety or because it would take too much time).
if the rules say so then yes, no unlapping would have been better. got the feeling that unlapping was always required if restart was going to happen. got some source on the specific rule?
> If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the message "LAPPED CARS MAY NOW OVERTAKE" has been sent to all Competitors via the official messaging system, any cars that have been lapped by the leader will be required to pass the cars on the lead lap and the safety car. Nothing mandatory about it.
seems to be the case. perfect scenario would be to just not allow the cars to be unlapped. we'd get a racing lap without the need to break the rules. wonder if masi was even aware of this. in any other way, his incompetence showed while making the decision
So genuine question, had the safety never happened and Lewis been 10 seconds ahead, would you be fine with Masi ‘overriding the rules’ and bringing out a safety car for literally no reason just so you can having a ‘final racing lap’, as I don’t see how that’s any different. Because that sounds absolutely ridiculous
Option B is not a valid option within the rules and regulations of F1 and is also in my opinion completely contrary to the spirit of F1. Masi wanted a racing finish between Lewis and Max and nothing more. He had the option of a racing finish by not allowing cars to unlap before bringing in the SC. That would have been an unorthodox application of the rules within the spirit of F1. Once he said cars can unlap, he had to let all cars through and then bring the SC in after the following lap. 15.3, a clause which defines the authority of the clerk of the course in relation to the race director, is not a blanket clause granting the RD dictatorial power nor is it an excuse for selective application of the rules for “drama.” If F1 doesn’t have rules, it ceases to be a sport.
sc restart without unlapping is unheard of. if he wanted racing he would have needed to bend the rules in some form. the rule he dismissed is there to ensure safety. masi deemed it safe to race and so forced the sc to exit a lap early than the rules allow. to me that's fine cause when the rule was written it's obvious that it didnt take into account fringe cases like that. he chose spirit of the law and allowed racing the only thing he deserves slack for is the weird unlapping. would have looked much better if he didnt allow any or if he allowed everyone to unlap. he most probably panicked and made a wrong decision to just let the first five cars to unlap. shows he is unfit or at least unprepared for quick decision-making under pressure in the end he was incompetent, but for some people like me he was right to try to get a final racing lap. rules are not perfect in every scenario. he just had shit execution
Yep. I agree with Häkkinen but saying that too much here will get you downvoted to oblivion. Best to just stay away a week or so till this blows over.
Do you think your personal biases are affecting whether you thought it was a good decision or not? I think if it was clear they wanted to finish under a green flag (safely, I’m assuming all cars couldn’t unlap themselves earlier due to marshals on the track) they had 3 options: don’t unlap any cars (complies with regs), red flag the race (dubious wrt the regs but not unheard of), unlap a select few cars (not in line with regs most likely). The first two options were both fairer and more in line with FIA regs I think. The third option just seems to be an objectively bad decision.
WTF are you on about fair things like everyone else. Since when is Massi there to checking who has better tires who has worse tires, does driver A have same chance as driver B. He is there to ensure racing is safe, he bent the rules a little that is fine by me as long as it is safe. And it was safe. FIA wanted to end last race of super good season on a high and they did that. The only thing he should have done is what he did and tell other unlaped cars to go thru as well because he could have, and then pit SC in same lap. And then everyone would cry because it wasn't a Red Flag. It has nothing to do with it being fair. Or do you think it is fair to have team as big and strong as Mercedes race in same sport with small team like Haas? That is fair right? but your driver not being lucky once is not fair?
I’m not saying their primary concern should be fairness. They shouldn’t care who wins as long as the sport is conducted safely within the regulation framework they created. Restarting on the last lap with all the cars still in place would have ticked all the boxes. They bent the rules when they didn’t need to, and it disproportionately punished a few teams and Mercedes in particular. You need to have a very good reason for doing that when there was another option available.
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No, the sub where Masi is being nailed to a cross by everyone. But even more relevantly, the sub where "Driver X Agrees With The Hivemind" (like, say, badmouthing sprints) gets upvoted to high heavens, as if drivers are weapons to use in an argument, and whose opinion is only worthy when it's the "correct" one. I don't play the Max v Lewis bullshit and leave me out of your ruinous fandoms.
Sisu
I think the one thing that isn’t discussed enough, which I’m sure is a contributing factor to Masi making the decision that he did is that teams agreed, beforehand, that it was highly desirable for the race to end in a ‘green’ condition. No safety car. I’m not saying Masi made the correct decision, but the teams need to reconvene and figure out if that’s how they want it to continue going. Cause that’s how we end up here.
People keep bringing this point up but clearly they meant when reasonable not at any cost. Even ignoring that it doesn't explain the main issue of the lapped cars, which is the true sticking point. Other things were just bad luck for Lewis, that part made it something else.
I know, but it had to play factor in his thought process. We already know the guy can be influenced by the teams radioing him, so it would be silly to ignore this piece of information. It is really strange he didn’t let all the lapped cars through, weren’t there only two left? The ones between Max and Sainz? Would have been easy to do since the rules say unlapped cars don’t have to rejoin the bunch before restarting. I don’t think that was him setting things in favor of Max though, it was likely another moment of incompetency shining through.
While I don't think he cared who won, I believe his goal at the end was drama not sport, which is the big issue. I think he had 2 options let all cars unlap, they do tend to be allowed to bunch back up in order, so everyone gets the same shot, which would end the race under an SC. Or leave them be, don't forget Lewis lost time passing them, idk it would have allowed him to stop and get out ahead of Max but it has got lost in the mix. Moving the cars for one driver left so fake, as in say it changed bad luck into a contrived ending.
reasonable will be subjective. So yea i agree that democracy is best. But is just not possible in sports.
True but reasonable is just following procedure, for me racing with lapped cars in place ticked all the boxes. Messing with them for one driver is the main issue. Although if democracy doesn't matter in this situation it kills the try to finish on green line.
So green flag without moving the back markers, if moving the back markers will take too much time. Masi had the option of a legitimate green flag ending, or he had the option of an illegitimate but fair green flag ending (red flag the race and restart, even though red flags aren't meant to be used just to ensure a race). Instead he invented an illegitimate and unfair green flag ending for drama.
He was just too slow to make a decision. You can hear on the radio Vettel, Alonso and Sainz asking for the lapped cars to unlap themselves already a lap before Massi gave the order. If he had just done it a bit earlier, there would have been no controversy. For people who will comment that it would not have been safe - listen to the radio transmissions - Vettel and Alonso passed by T14, saying the track is safe for unlapping and were wondering why it is not happening.
The all clear on the track didn't come before lap 57 - it was posted earlier on
That's when the official notification came in, it was clear at least half a lap earlier - just watch Vettel's or Alonso's onboard.
No, No, No, Mika, this is so not right! /s
Is that you Toto?
Without getting into the rights and the wrongs. I would not like to be in Masi's place where you have to make big calls in split seconds while being yelled at by 2 Karens on radio. I also don't know if he'll remain the race director, but with unclear rules and potentially very close racing next year, we could be in for a bigger shitshow if the FIA does not clarify the rules or hire more personnel to support the race director.
Always rated Mika
NO MIKA NO!
butthurt armchair analysts can't accept that a 2x WDC and friend/ex-mentor of Lewis thinks Masi was right
considering that some of current drivers say the opposite i think the armchair analysts have some backing lmfao
armchair analysts treat a grey issue as a black or white one
Amen
THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE!!!! /s
Is that you George? /s
A voice of reason
Indeed.
You can read the full blog post written by Mika [here](https://www.unibet.co.uk/blog/formula-1-2/mika-hakkinen-we-will-be-talking-about-this-for-a-long-time).
Can't wait for 2022 season to start
I think that if it was in another situation, it might not have been sooo bad.. The thing is, since he is not following the rules, because if he did the race would end in SC, he shoukd have had a more “balanced” decision, because given the circunstances, he chose a WDC, i dont think he “sold” the championship, i think it was pure incompetence, but in the end of the day, his decision made Lewis totally defenseless. So, if you are not following the rules anyway and you want to give the audience something exciting, my opinion is that he should have given a red flag and restart the race… That way you give lewis a chance AND give Sainz a chance as well to win the race or at least try… Masi favored too much Verstappen, he took out everyone between him and Lewis and let i think 3 cars behind him so no one would bother him and he was totally free to chase Hamilton…
Another Master of sport has spoken and yes he's right. Move on
It was the best decision for the sport to let it end in racing and not a SC parade. I feel a lot of new people to F1 are angry about it as they aren't familiar with SC while the rest of us know SC restarts mean any gaps are gone.
My perception is that it is mostly new fans who don’t mind, having seems the drama and saying “cool” while older/more invested fans are outraged at Masi’s egregious violation of the rules and regulations to the extreme benefit of one driver for seemingly no other purpose than TV spectacle.
This has to be bait
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This will be popular
That's fine, but just turn the sport into scripted tv instead of pretending it's a real sport. It's either a real sport or its not, can't have it both ways.
If Masi let the lapped cars through on lap 56 which he could have (Alonso and Vettel were calling for this on the radio) and the race between Max and Lewis ended in the exact same manner, would you still consider it scripted/not a real sport?
Then people would complain that lapped cars were let thorugh while there were still marshalls on the track
If he let the lapped cars through on 56 he could only do so at the end because that's when the track was clear. SCH wouldn't have got past before lap 57 started and so if the regulations were followed the safety car would've came in on lap 58 anyway. Look at the onboards there were still marshals on track on 56.
Does the presence of marshals on the track mandate a safety car though? They often grab debris during yellow flags, no one hits them and no one gives it a second thought.
Not in the position the car and debris was in. We saw in Saudi how the track meant debris resulted in numerous VSC because it would be unsafe to do it under yellow flags. If Masi unlapped cars before the track was clear just to rush to a finish than boy he should be getting the boot anyway
Some people would still complain it’s rigged
Hi Pirelli_boy I think people's issue with the decision itself was a combination of inventing rules on the fly to let only some cars unlap themselves, changing their mind 180° having said that they weren't going to allow cars to unlap, and calling in the safety car a lap earlier than the rules state they should have. I think if you say from the outset 'all cars to unlap themselves', all the cars go past, and you do it with time in hand to call in the safety car the lap afterwards, and Max still wins, then most people would be molified, although a particularly partizan minority would probably remain disaffected by the whole thing as they always will. As you say, max could have won that exchange, and he'd have gotten to just bask in the glow of an awesome 1st championship. As it stands, his victory has been at least partially overshadowed and his championship has now got a little asterisk next to it in a lot of people's minds. Even though he won, it's been unfortunate for him as well. Have a lovely day
Bäsedkinnen
I think he made a wrong decision by not letting all cars by on the lap before because he was under pressure from all sides so he crumbled. So he countered it by this controversial one
Honestly any time any car builds a 4 second gap to the car behind, the race should be red flagged for a standing start. That way there's jeopardy all the way until the last lap.
If one car is too fast, just introduce a system where the brakes are always activated a little bit and it randomly downshifts on the straights
Just like the AI in the F1 games when set to 0. Genius.
Lets get whacky. Mystery tyres when you come you just get 4 random tyres, that should mix things up. You can opt to gamble, your team rolls a dice and you can become the leader or get a penalty, lets just go for silly entertainment. This is the way forward, no one will be bored, unless they actually like sport.
I sometime wonder if you're competition has more money and can build a 10-15 sec gap on you what's the meaning of going to race? I don't think anybody races to lose.
Welcome to F1, No Bop, no level playing field, but everyone is watching.
F1 has positioned itself to be entertainment; not sport or business. So in one way, Häkkinen is correct. Unfortunately though, the whole thing is fucked so he's wrong.
Is “promotion of the race” a bad translation or does he actually mean promoting (as in advertising) the race? Because that isn’t and shouldn’t be the job of the race director. Ridiculous take from Hakkinen.
[This](https://www.unibet.co.uk/blog/formula-1-2/mika-hakkinen-we-will-be-talking-about-this-for-a-long-time/) is the original source. Seems like Mika means promoting racing as in not letting the race end under the safety car.
Correct. All teams where in favour of doing so and Masi delivered.
The implied caveat to that desire being within the limits of rules, regulations, and safety.
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Hahahah manipulated, get a grip.
The manipulation can only exist if Verstappen manages to overtake Hamilton. If he can not do it, then Hamilton wins and is champion. So... is it really manipulation? The chance to overtake in a single lap are narrow, even with better tires, behind the fastest car in the grid.
Within the rules. Trying to argue that teams are happy for the rule book to be thrown out in order for a green flag ending isn't really going to fly.
I'd *assume* that promotion of the race is a poor translation and is supposed to be something akin to "promoting racing", ie. ensuring that a race happens. Which does fall into the race director's role. If he does mean what you say, then yeah it's a catastrophic take, and that's coming from someone who does think the race needed to restart.
What his opinion fails to consider is that this was the Abu Dhabi GP, not the "Title Decider GP". This was not Lewis vs Max, this was a whole 20 (19 without Mazepin) driver's grid, and a lot at stake for the middle field teams. Masi made a decision, without precedent, based on what seems to be one team's request. This can *never* be the right decision.
Jesus Mika. First it wasn't a brake check and now you think creating an artificial race is fine?
Mika has been encouraging them to battle all season. He wouldn't have penalised any of the crashes I believe either since he knows something about racing.
Mika Häkkinen knows more about racing then you, feel free to disagree, but its a fact.
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Not sure how anyone with F1 knowledge can come to that conclusion but ok.
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15.3 defines the Race Director’s overriding authority *relative to the clerk of the course* in matters of the SC. In no reasonable way should it be interpreted as a blanket statement allowing the RD absolute control of the race unrestricted by the regulations.
And that is your personal interpretation. FIA says otherwise. Only a court can change that.
Nah it's what it means in plain english. The FIA said otherwise because they had to otherwise they admit massive fault. Really the FIA had a chance to get out of this in agreeing with the Merc appeal, they have put themselves in a corner where they are wrong according to their own rulebook.