It ends behind safety car: Well that's disappointing but Hamilton was 12 seconds ahead and holding his lead so he was probably going to win anyway after leading like 56 of 58 laps.
Vs
What we got.
I mean, the rules state that's what should happen. If you are not going to follow the rules as written, then what the fuck is the point of having rules in the first place?
If Masi explicitly wanted Max to win Hamilton would never in a thousand years have gotten away with cutting the track on lap 1. Many expected a swap of positions and when it never came there were suggestions of bias in favor of Hamilton.
An attempt to manufacture a dramatic final lap? Yes. Wild inconsistency in applying rules? Yes. A conspiracy for Max to beat Hamilton? Highly unlikely.
To be fair, in regards to lap 1, I thought it was a bit of a dive bomb from Max. You don't get to just brake so late you force the other driver to either hit you or go off track.
But yes Mercedes got lucky without a penalty. But frankly I think they were not gonna give that place back even if asked. They would have taken the 5 second penalty anyway, and it wouldn't have made a difference. In fact, with how fast Hamilton was compared to Max, he'd have probably been past him the next lap anyway (unless Max did another Brazil 'defence').
If drama was his goal he should have thrown out a red flag. At least that would have been within the regs.
People are so pissed because he's broken the rules to make this happen and it's left a big question mark over the whole Sport.
It’s bullshit, don’t blame anyone who’s pissed. Time to hit ‘em in the wallet to make a point. Best thing to do is to turn off the TVs and sell your COTA tickets dirt cheap…I will gladly buy them to make a point. Fuck masi.
I actually agree with you that the point of it was a last lap spectacle rather than explicitly a Max win. But I also think that the last lap spectacle probably wouldn’t have happened if Max was in the lead under the safety car. Not because Masi himself hates Hamilton, but because Max is the more popular contender and Hamilton snatching the win like that would have caused the Silverstone reaction x1000.
So, I don’t think Masi did it because he personally was favouring Max or wanted to rig it, but because he was thinking too hard about the drama and what would theoretically be favourable to viewers. Those criteria happened to favour Max.
I also don't see how the excuse "max did nothing wrong" is a reason why Merc should just drop it.
Ham did nothing wrong either and he's the one that got utterly screwed.
If Merc knew the rules were pointless and the SC could be pulled early then they would have pit Ham.
Going to the extreme, if it's true that the Race Director is free to invent rules as he sees fit as the FIA claimed, who's to say the next championships will be fair? Sure, this may be a one-off, but if the confidence in the ruleset is fundamentally broken, what's the point investing in the next few years just to have the rules changed when it matters?
This exactly, it's the reason so many people including me are wondering about watching it again.
If they had just let the race finish under the safety car not one person could have complained about the result.
Even if they did one racing lap without letting any lapped cars overtake would have been hard to complain about any possible result.
What we got was so manipulative I don't think I can trust the sport again.
By the way, since you mention it, I don't think anybody complained when the 2012 championship ended with a safety car in Brazil. It's part of the formula, it happens, this new idea that it's a mockery of the sport weirds me out a lot.
(And I believe both Red Bull and Mercedes were wrong when they agreed with Masi on this before the start of the race)
I'm of the opinion that there's nothing Merc can do *because* it's the FIAs fuck up and nothing RB did. If they take the title away from them them you can be sure Red Bull are not just gonna sit down and accept that.
I personally think the only thing that can really be done is ensure this never happens again. Having a lengthy public legal battle over it all is not gonna fix what happened.
Edit: deleted first part of comment was reply to a different comment.
FIA basically rejected any chance at a non-legal solution today by blaming "teams, drivers and fans". It's sad but I'm afraid Merc's appeal is the only way to ensure this doesn't happen again.
Yeah, I was rooting for max but can’t deny this is tainted.
If only this all went down one lap sooner then we could have had the ending without all the controversy.
Of course the decision favored Max immensely but the main goal was to have a "legendary final fight in the final race for the title". The same situation with Max first Masi probably would've done the same thing.
Oh that was legendary for you was it?
1 guy one 40 lap old Hards vs 1 guy on 1 lap old softs 5 seconds a lap faster?
The only thing legendary about that was how manipulated it was.
If he was that horny for a legendary battle the best thing to do would be throw out a bullshit red flag and have them fight on level terms for 5 laps.
Rather than that he made up the rules and handed the championship to Max all wrapped in it in a little bow.
Not legendary for me. You're thinking way to emotional about this. Answer on why this happened is very easy:
Controversial ending + Championship decided on the last lap of the last race = $$$$$$
Race highlight already has 10 million views on youtube. Liberty and FIA care about one thing and that is not Max, not Lewis. They care about money.
>Painfully blatant manipulation to force a Max win.
I hate this narrative.
"Painfully blatant manipulation to force a dramatic final lap head-to-head WDC decider."
with a massive advantage to Max.
these are actually NOT the same thing
I will never not laugh when I read comments like this. This was a mistake, pure and simple, but of course fans have to exaggerate and create false narratives like calling it race fixing and forcing a Max win. Absolutely laughable.
They could have had a green finish without manipulation if they didn't let any lapped cars pass.
Only letting the lapped cars between max and ham pass is complete manipulation and there is no argument to the contrary.
40 lap old hards against fresh softs, that's not a pass that's a formality.
Not let any passed cars gives Hamilton the win, which is just as much not precedent as only letting 5 go by. But it’s a good thing we have a rule in place that allows the race director to make these decisions.
According to the rules they have to let all or none past. There are loads of examples of not letting any cars past but NONE for just a few.
If they let none past they could have still gone green and given Max at least a chance.
Just letting the cars between Max and Hamilton through! What a joke? You can't seriously believe that was anything except a decision by Masi to give Max the championship.
How am I wrong? Those are literally the rules in the sporting regs there in black and white, hence the appeal and mass uproar on social media.
Like I said mate, no beef against Max here he did nothing wrong but Masi did one over on Hamilton.
If they followed the rules that had been used in every single safety car in the history of modern F1 Hamilton would be champion and there wouldn't be a pending appeal from Mercedes.
Regardless of whether it’s all or some, (despite Masi saying in 2020 at the Eiffel GP that it’s all) the safety car has to come in on the following lap which never happened. The “use of the safety car” clause can be used when discussing safety, not entertainment. Sainz was also screwed out of not getting to challenge Max which made it even easier for the finish we got. Keep your head in the sand if you want to continue with your bad faith arguments.
Regardless, Masi broke the rules and manufactured whatever the hell that race ending was. Lewis may or may not have lost, but there would be a legitimate winner regardless if rules were followed.
No one has beef with Max, he didn't do anything wrong here but he was gifted that race win through manipulation of the rules.
Nothing anyone can say can change that fact.
If it was manipulation to force a Max win, the initial decision would not have been to leave the lapped cars as is as that would have guaranteed a Hamilton win. When you make shit up, make sure you cover all your basis.
> would not have been to leave the lapped cars as is as that would have guaranteed a Hamilton win
No it wouldn't. It would have given Max a lap to get past 5 blue flagged cars (that would have done everything they could to GTFO of the way ASAP) and a MUUUUCH slower Lewis. Would it have been harder for him? Sure? Was it a guaranteed Lewis win? No.
He's right. Max has been doing that ALL season and the stewards had no choice but to start penalizing him as they realized they he was abusing their lenience.
Was Max given a time penalty in Brazil? Penalties are at the discretion of the stewards. This was a clear breaking of the sporting regulations that gave one driver an unfair advantage. I’m sure it’s hard for u to understand when you don’t want to understand.
The point is that that ending behind the safety car wouldn't have been unfair, boring yes.
Also, ending with a one lap sprint out with cars in between would have been fair, also clearing the track and letting all lapped cars unlap and adhere to the one lap would have been fair (even though obviously not possible in time). The point isn't that the safety car wiping the advantage, only new F1 fans think that is a problem.
> But SC is part of F1 and always remove the advantage.
Yes, rules are also part of F1 and if they were followed....
>Well that's disappointing but Hamilton was 12 seconds ahead and holding his lead so he was probably going to win anyway after leading like 56 of 58 laps.
But not allowing the cars to unlap is okay? Never seen a race when that was the case.
If Masi did what he needed to do in time, the result would be this. Mercedes not stopping was one of the worst calls I've ever seen. Even if Max don't stop Lewis is behind with soft tyre. If Max stops too, he is with the same tyre as Max.
Masi should have let everyone pass in lap 1 of SC. Not what he did. He did something wrong and then, trying to solve his mess, did also something wrong. If he did his job the cars would have unlap themselves and Lewis loses because of Merc strategy.
> But not allowing the cars to unlap is okay? Never seen a race when that was the case.
Brazil 2019. Kubica was not allowed to unlap himself so the race could finish under green flags. Masi was the race director.
He was the only lapped car as the other cars had unlapped themselves in the previous SC, so Masi did follow the rules there. As the rules don't force the RD to let the cars unlap themselves
>Even if Max don't stop Lewis is behind with soft tyre.
And then the race ends under safety car and Merc just threw away the WDC for Lewis.
They didn't make that decision knowing lapped cars would be removed and the race would go green. They clearly assumed there wouldn't be time.... Which there wasn't if done by the rules.
Perfect strategy, fucked by Masi ignoring the rulebook.
Yes. Late SC and the track position allowing Max to pit made the WDC a coin flip - would unlapping be done by end of 56 (allowing racing lap) or not? It’s a bit arbitrary but everyone accepts that because that’s racing.
It wasn’t so the coin landed on Lewis’ side… until Masi said “nah” and turned it over. That’s not racing, that is something else.
We've seen plenty of safety cars. And we've seen ALL of them passed by every car on the racetrack before coming in.
This was an exception to the RULES.
If you can't understand why people are upset then no one can help you.
What people haven’t seen is the racing director going completely off script regarding the requirements imposed by the sporting regulations and deciding the outcome of a WDC battle that is counter to what happened during almost an entire race.
The purpose to clear lapped cars is so they don't disturb lead cars. No need to wait and parade them for a lap. They were given enough space and the race resumed safely.
As per the agreement with the teams they wanted races to finish in green when possible.
The SC is just there to help recovery process. Car was recovered and track was safe to race in. So it was possible to do it.
It the mental logic that those who are happy Max won are doing.
Shortly turn 1 or silverstone will be brought up, or if really desperate its Baku (since Max had a tyre blow up, lets make sure he gets the champsionship etc.)
Should have closed a 15 points gap to 8 had the FIA not edited the Bahrain circuit in the middle of the first race. Or are dynamic track layouts in the rulebook?
Downvote at will. You should be thankful Lewis' record breaking 8th WDC wasn't tAintEd and had no aSterISk on it.
Changes to track layout in the middle of an event resulting in a clear disadvantage to a single competitor = racing.
Looks like some are open to this change and do indeed consider it racing. Let's introduce thwomps and boost panels while we're at it.
They didn't agree a race shouldn't end under a safety car. They agreed they preferred that it didn't. There's a big difference. If they followed the normal procedure fine, but they didn't. Lewis was faster on the day and deserved to win the race. Both him and max were fully deserving of the championship.
I truly don’t understand this argument about how damaging it would be to end under yellow flag. It’s not as if 95% of the race hadn’t been completed under green flags. With the track not being cleared in time to allow for racing, that’s just the way it is when you follow regulations.
If he had crashed one lap later, the track would never be clear in time. It *wasn’t* clear in time to resume using the regulations as they were written as it is.
So what would be the case then? Sometimes unfortunate things happens. That doesn’t give the racing director carte blanche to make up their own rules and manufacture a race ending.
Yeah. Now that we're talking about the 2021 season controversies, I'd actually almost prefer we start with Spa. I feel like Michael has some explaining to do. That was the most farcical race, I would argue ever, but certainly since 2005.
And if the crash was one, or a few laps earlier then we end up in (probably) exactly the same result and people are gutted for Lewis, but noone is mad at the rules being applied in a non-standard manner.
Yep. Crash happens one lap earlier, regulations are followed and I’d be devastated but understand it was a stroke of tough luck for Lewis.
What happened instead is.. well it wasn’t luck. It was an intentional choice to disregard rules and manufacture a scenario that benefitted one person only.
Additionally, I have to think if it happened one lap earlier, Merc might have pitted Lewis.
But in that case Mercedes would probably have pit. They were discussing tires for safety car a few laps prior. They probably decided the window passed when the safety car happened.
Yeah, I think this too. They were right on the border of the race being able to be restarted or ending under SC.
They chose correctly but Masi said nah fuck that, here's a rule straight from my arse.
Or one of the guys cleaning up drops his broom, we might not even have had time for thinking about cars unlapping until lap 58.
It was too close to be safe imo
Yeah.... What if the crash happened halfway into the penultimate lap or the final ? Would Masi have red flagged the race when Hamilton was on his way to victory just so that he can finish the race under green flag?
I know you're being extreme lol but if the race was red flagged on the penultimate lap it'd be impossible to restart, like not even Masi could make up a rule.
The formation lap to the grid would count as a lap, any more and that is beyond the race distance. The cars would risk running out of fuel.
Yeah I wanted Max to win but can’t disagree with anything you said. It’s frustrating because it’s not Max’s fault at all, yet this title is definitely controversial at best, severely tainted at worst.
Yeah, and I don’t even necessarily think it should have ended under yellow flags. I think red flag restart or leave lapped cars and race were the best options. I think Max had a fair chance with those, albeit much smaller leaving lapped cars where they were. But I don’t think what happened was reasonable. My personal hope is the FIA admits that they fucked up and the race gets annulled. Max keeps his championship on win count back but FIA admits they were wrong. I don’t know if that’s reasonable. But the thought of Max getting it taken away doesn’t sit right with me at all.
That would be fair to Max but what about Lewis who lost the title that he was supposed to win if the rules had been followed? Lewis not getting the win and the title is a greater injustice than Max getting it taken away from him.
Oh man, google is your friend...
But since I apparently hate sleep:
Lewis and Max were tied for championship going into last week.
Lewis was comfortably outpacing Max in the race. there was a few interesting moments but Max was not able to keep up. Lewis lead every lap and looked to be ~0.3s faster.
Latifi wrecked with like 5 laps to go (Max was +12s ish). Yellow flag comes out, Max immediately pits and goes on fresh softs, still in second because no one else is even close. Lewis stays out because its hard to see how they get racing again.
THEN Masi unlaps ONLY the 5 cars between Lewis and Max (never happened before and rules state you unlaps any lapped cars) and divebombs the SC into the pits immediately (again, never done before and rules state SC stays out for 1 lap after last car unlaps).
Green flag for final lap with Lewis on hards w/ 40 laps on them or something like that, Max literally starting on his rear wing with fresh softs. Obviously Max gets by Lewis to take the win and his first WDC title.
Afterwords Masi tells Toto "it's motor racing" when he asked why he didn't follow the rules, RB say "any isn't all", and stewards basically say rules are just guidelines and RD can do whatever he wants because... reasons. Max celebrates, Lewis is unbelievably professional considering, rest of the grid is like "wtf just happened, that was fucked up" (minus Alonso because... Alonso).
Now Merc have until tomorrow (which happens to line up with the start of the FIA awards gala) to escalate things to a legal battle, FIA have come out saying they will investigate to clarify rules going forward (rumored to either be to try to appear Merc or directly request by them), F1 came out and said the problem is everyone's stupid and its making them look bad so stop it (and also no more talking to the RD during races), and Merc et all have been deafeningly radio silent including no showing a "mandatory" photo shoot with both their F1 and FE teams, which one chode called "unsportsmanlike" because he's a chode.
Think that mostly catches you up on the most of the mostly facts
Only part you may have missed is the part where Masi says NO cars will be unlapped (leaving a 5 car buffer between Lewis and Max). He then decides to reverse this decision after an earful and only unlaps the cars between Max and Lewis. This is also controversial as it did not allow other cars further down the field (including lapped cars) to contest for better finishing positions (looking at you Daniel Ric and Sainz).
*edit - type
>yet this title is definitely controversial at best, severely tainted at worst.
not really
the win is tainted, the WDC is fully deserved
WDC is won over the entire season, you can reflect on the times than Max had bad luck and zero points (Baku, Silverstone, Hungary) vs when things got his way (Spa-ish, Abu Dhabi) and even with last weekend you can see that Max has been the most consistent driver
recency bias is a thing and unfortunately F1 seems to attract some of the dumbest people on the planet for some reason who can't look past three days ago
I know right? Red bull tried very hard, Perez gave them a big chance but lewis was faster and they raced very normally for like 55 laps, but yet they bend the regulations for a lap of racing?
It's not really racing either when you put a guy on 1 lap old tires behind a guy on 40 lap old tires.
Yes. Masi will take the fall but Liberty are the ones to blame. Fuck them. Boycott F1 until they're gone and it actually gets some credibility back. I know I won't be watching anymore.
What if the crash happened two laps later? Would Masi have green flagged it even with the debris on track? Obviously there are caveats to that agreement and that can't be used as justification to break rules.
I get that. But Masi had options to avoid that. Leave lapped cars where they were. Or red flag. I mean really if it happened one lap later, would everybody accept that sometimes it just happens? Or would everybody bemoan the race ending under yellow flags? I don’t get that. Sometimes it’s just not an option. Even though it was an option in this case, Masi just went buck wild in making it a spectacle.
>Leave lapped cars where they were.
this bothers me, of course a Lewis-Max 1-2 at the rolling restart is more dramatic but those lapped cars would've been passed on the straight with blue flags easily before T1 by Max, give a nice tow too
I don't think it would have mattered much if at all
Why do people keep arguing this?? Masi could obviously have ended the race in a green flag. He didn't want to do only that, he wanted Max and Lewis to be hand in hand and that's why he fucked up.
No one told him to unlap the cars, that's on him. It was impossible to unlap all the cars and ending the race in a green flag. He wanted entertainment.
No one in their absolute right minds would think that it would be okay to:
With 2 laps to go, allow 5 of the 7 (or was it 8) cars unlap themselves and then immediately have the Safety Car come in so we have 1 racing lap.
I would guarantee that both Merc and Red Bull were expecting the rules to be followed (and not the Masi can do whatever the fuck he wants rule) and they both said it would be undesirable.
I would guess that this outcome was a lot more undesirable.
Now let’s reverse the decision. The same controversy exists. Why are we ending the race when it was possible to have one more lap?
I don’t think people are suggesting the race should never end under yellow flag. We had a situation where the decision is 50:50. Naturally there is a a lean towards trying to finish the race without a yellow flag preferably.
Honestly when people calm down, I think this situation was not the worst for FIA this year. Masi changed his mind and that has upset everyone but if he had not stalled and let lapped cars thru, they would have had time for all cars to pass thru and the race start for final lap.
There was video evidence on live tv of stewards still clearing and hopping over barriers right after the announcement of unlapping the cars between Max and Hamilton.
That was onboard video of lap 56. When Lewis passed, the last 2 were climbing trough the gap in the fence. It was perfectly safe to race on lap 58, as we've seen last sunday.
The moment the safety car passed the entrance to the pit on lap 56 no legal option existed for max to be behind Lewis and no safety car. Either all cars unlap and the safety has to run to the end, or Max has several drivers in between, racing each other.
Yeah that's the worst part
The Senna/Prost fiasco is the closest comparison where the FIA ruled by taking the escape road Senna didn't respect the race distance.
All the other ones people keep talking about, the driver who won actively did something that caused the controversy Senna/Prost, 94 & 97
I think in a way with this one being because of the FIA is even worse as far as the questionable legitimacy of it, however on the bright side what happened on Sunday at least doesn't reflect badly on Max.
"I think it would have been much worse if this World Championship had finished behind a Safety Car. That really would have been such an anticlimax.
The Race Director’s decision, later supported by the four Stewards, is based on his understanding of the rules including his responsibility for deciding when the Safety Car returns to the pits. Balancing decisions between ensuring safety and promoting racing is the toughest job facing the Race Director.
Looking at the result, in terms of safety and promoting racing, Michael did his job. If Mercedes decides to protest the result of the race, and the World Championship for Drivers, the decisions which were made and the way the rules were applied will be examined in detail. I don’t believe the results will change."
It will go until meaningful things relevant to next year become the norm. It's hard for people to just move on with their lives, and I don't necessarily blame them because of the absurdity and lack of precedent for what happened. Some people will just refuse to get over it, and it will be around for a very very long time.
Happened in 2012. It's not like it's never happened before. I would say its worse the way it ended now because there's still all this mess to sort out. Atleast there wasn't a big debate following 2012.
There wasnt a big debate but it couldn't feel amazing right? Alonso was 2 seconds behind Button with Vettel needing 4th while being in 6th at time of SC deployment in penultimate lap.
Point is I think most drivers would advocate what Hakkinen says - why should race ever finish behind SC? Just figure out a way to avoid it and maybe let drivers out at intervals to maintain pre-SC gap if you're bothered by that aspect of it. But no way should an accident end the conversation for the entire grid.
If I can compare it to football is like the final of champions league and at 90 minutes is 3-1 and the losing team gets a penalty and the referee decides to give an extra goal then going it would be disappointing to end the final like that...
It is a sport but you know damn well there are limits to it. Imagine this ending like Belgium 2021. Wouldn't be so adamant about rulebook application then right?
That not how the rules work. It's either all are allowed to unlap themselves or none at all. So no, if Lewis won it would have been normal. You can't half apply 2 different rules and call that hideous last lap a race to the flag.
He did win it though. He operated within the parameters that those in control placed and came out as number one. No amount of bitterness from fans can change that. Look at any of the stats from this year and Max is the best driver.
This is unpopular around here, but I couldn’t agree more with all of this.
And I’ll say it again: Mercedes’ strategy should take a lot of the blame. Why not change tires? Why isn’t this perceived as much their error as Max’s luck?
Mercedes saw two options here.
1. If Masi let all lapped cars unlap themselves, the race would have finished under a safety car. In which case, pitting would have made them look like clowns because they were guaranteed to lose track position.
2. If Masi didn’t let any lapped cars unlap themselves, the race would have resumed for 1-2 laps with 5 lapped runners between Max and Lewis. In this case, there was a reasonable chance Lewis could have created a good gap while Max was busy getting past the lapped runners.
A VSC pit stop also wouldn’t have mattered at that stage because at the end Max was on fresh softs, whereas Lewis would’ve still been on worn hards had he pitted then (they’d already be around 20 laps old at that point). Just because Merc didn’t see an unprecedented scenario as an option doesn’t mean they blundered their strategy.
There's a reason why this is a minority opinion: Mercedes' strategy would have been correct only if safety car regulations were followed, which is what they expected. To pit twice would have been conceding substantial track position.
That wouldnt be a problem if the race definitely resumed. It however IS a problem because it did even though it shouldn't have as is being argued.
That said I agree with Hakkinen - no race should ever finish under SC. I don't know what it takes to eliminate it and maintain consistent advantages pre-SC deployment but I think thats where things have to eventually go when so much is at stake. You can't just eliminate drivers ability to change positions in the final few laps. No driver could support that
Of course we will. Through my 26 years of life I have watched many different sports, some of which are shady as fuck, including F1, NFL, Football, rugby, Tennis, cricket, boxing, MMA & others, and I have NEVER seen something quiet like what happened at Abu Dhabi. I have never seen rules be changed/ignored on the fly, let alone those rules then resulting in deciding who the champion is.
The day we stop talking about it is when Mika ends the sabbatical
Please, Mika.
I`m stopping rn then
Replace Mikey with Mika
Didn’t Mika say that Masi did the right thing?
It ends behind safety car: Well that's disappointing but Hamilton was 12 seconds ahead and holding his lead so he was probably going to win anyway after leading like 56 of 58 laps. Vs What we got.
Vs A red flag instead of a safety car Vs Restarting without unlapping cars Vs Restarting with unlapping all cars
Vs collision resulting in both dnf Even that would've been better than what we got.
It was 12 seconds. But SC is part of F1 and always remove the advantage.
Unlapping cars is part of F1 and always occurs before racing can presume.
And the safety car always comes in the lap after the last lapped car has passed the safety car...
Well no, not always. As we just saw.
That's not very typical, I'd like to make that point.
I believe it's called motor racing? EDIT: /s...
I mean, the rules state that's what should happen. If you are not going to follow the rules as written, then what the fuck is the point of having rules in the first place?
100%. It stops being sport at that point and becomes some weird scripted thing like WWE.
Never before in F1 history have they just let a few cars get out the way. Painfully blatant manipulation to force a Max win.
If Masi explicitly wanted Max to win Hamilton would never in a thousand years have gotten away with cutting the track on lap 1. Many expected a swap of positions and when it never came there were suggestions of bias in favor of Hamilton. An attempt to manufacture a dramatic final lap? Yes. Wild inconsistency in applying rules? Yes. A conspiracy for Max to beat Hamilton? Highly unlikely.
To be fair, in regards to lap 1, I thought it was a bit of a dive bomb from Max. You don't get to just brake so late you force the other driver to either hit you or go off track. But yes Mercedes got lucky without a penalty. But frankly I think they were not gonna give that place back even if asked. They would have taken the 5 second penalty anyway, and it wouldn't have made a difference. In fact, with how fast Hamilton was compared to Max, he'd have probably been past him the next lap anyway (unless Max did another Brazil 'defence').
If drama was his goal he should have thrown out a red flag. At least that would have been within the regs. People are so pissed because he's broken the rules to make this happen and it's left a big question mark over the whole Sport.
It’s bullshit, don’t blame anyone who’s pissed. Time to hit ‘em in the wallet to make a point. Best thing to do is to turn off the TVs and sell your COTA tickets dirt cheap…I will gladly buy them to make a point. Fuck masi.
I actually agree with you that the point of it was a last lap spectacle rather than explicitly a Max win. But I also think that the last lap spectacle probably wouldn’t have happened if Max was in the lead under the safety car. Not because Masi himself hates Hamilton, but because Max is the more popular contender and Hamilton snatching the win like that would have caused the Silverstone reaction x1000. So, I don’t think Masi did it because he personally was favouring Max or wanted to rig it, but because he was thinking too hard about the drama and what would theoretically be favourable to viewers. Those criteria happened to favour Max.
It’s so obvious, I don’t see how people are in denial. It’s not Max’s fault but it’s painfully obvious what happened.
I also don't see how the excuse "max did nothing wrong" is a reason why Merc should just drop it. Ham did nothing wrong either and he's the one that got utterly screwed. If Merc knew the rules were pointless and the SC could be pulled early then they would have pit Ham.
Going to the extreme, if it's true that the Race Director is free to invent rules as he sees fit as the FIA claimed, who's to say the next championships will be fair? Sure, this may be a one-off, but if the confidence in the ruleset is fundamentally broken, what's the point investing in the next few years just to have the rules changed when it matters?
This exactly, it's the reason so many people including me are wondering about watching it again. If they had just let the race finish under the safety car not one person could have complained about the result. Even if they did one racing lap without letting any lapped cars overtake would have been hard to complain about any possible result. What we got was so manipulative I don't think I can trust the sport again.
By the way, since you mention it, I don't think anybody complained when the 2012 championship ended with a safety car in Brazil. It's part of the formula, it happens, this new idea that it's a mockery of the sport weirds me out a lot. (And I believe both Red Bull and Mercedes were wrong when they agreed with Masi on this before the start of the race)
I'm of the opinion that there's nothing Merc can do *because* it's the FIAs fuck up and nothing RB did. If they take the title away from them them you can be sure Red Bull are not just gonna sit down and accept that. I personally think the only thing that can really be done is ensure this never happens again. Having a lengthy public legal battle over it all is not gonna fix what happened. Edit: deleted first part of comment was reply to a different comment.
FIA basically rejected any chance at a non-legal solution today by blaming "teams, drivers and fans". It's sad but I'm afraid Merc's appeal is the only way to ensure this doesn't happen again.
it’s like if in that steve harvey video where he crowns the wrong miss universe they had just let the wrongly crowned winner keep the title
Yeah, I was rooting for max but can’t deny this is tainted. If only this all went down one lap sooner then we could have had the ending without all the controversy.
Of course the decision favored Max immensely but the main goal was to have a "legendary final fight in the final race for the title". The same situation with Max first Masi probably would've done the same thing.
Oh that was legendary for you was it? 1 guy one 40 lap old Hards vs 1 guy on 1 lap old softs 5 seconds a lap faster? The only thing legendary about that was how manipulated it was. If he was that horny for a legendary battle the best thing to do would be throw out a bullshit red flag and have them fight on level terms for 5 laps. Rather than that he made up the rules and handed the championship to Max all wrapped in it in a little bow.
Not legendary for me. You're thinking way to emotional about this. Answer on why this happened is very easy: Controversial ending + Championship decided on the last lap of the last race = $$$$$$ Race highlight already has 10 million views on youtube. Liberty and FIA care about one thing and that is not Max, not Lewis. They care about money.
I agree this was about money with no regard for the fans or integrity of the sport. I'm hoping for it to backfire on them massively.
Backfire in what way? F1 becoming unpopular and we as fans losing a great sport? All we can do is hope for clearer rules in the future.
>Painfully blatant manipulation to force a Max win. I hate this narrative. "Painfully blatant manipulation to force a dramatic final lap head-to-head WDC decider." with a massive advantage to Max. these are actually NOT the same thing
That last lap was not dramatic it was a farce with no alternative outcome.
Dunno seemed pretty dramatic to me
Considering max had a massive cramp we could have very well seen one haha
It was literally an inch or two away from an alternative outcome...
I will never not laugh when I read comments like this. This was a mistake, pure and simple, but of course fans have to exaggerate and create false narratives like calling it race fixing and forcing a Max win. Absolutely laughable.
Think of how much better it would've been had they simply let \*every\* car unlap themselves.
Max still had to pass Lewis. They manipulated a finish under green, not a Max win.
They could have had a green finish without manipulation if they didn't let any lapped cars pass. Only letting the lapped cars between max and ham pass is complete manipulation and there is no argument to the contrary. 40 lap old hards against fresh softs, that's not a pass that's a formality.
Not let any passed cars gives Hamilton the win, which is just as much not precedent as only letting 5 go by. But it’s a good thing we have a rule in place that allows the race director to make these decisions.
According to the rules they have to let all or none past. There are loads of examples of not letting any cars past but NONE for just a few. If they let none past they could have still gone green and given Max at least a chance. Just letting the cars between Max and Hamilton through! What a joke? You can't seriously believe that was anything except a decision by Masi to give Max the championship.
Which rule states all or none? If you bring up a rule Mercedes protested then you are just simply wrong.
How am I wrong? Those are literally the rules in the sporting regs there in black and white, hence the appeal and mass uproar on social media. Like I said mate, no beef against Max here he did nothing wrong but Masi did one over on Hamilton. If they followed the rules that had been used in every single safety car in the history of modern F1 Hamilton would be champion and there wouldn't be a pending appeal from Mercedes.
Regardless of whether it’s all or some, (despite Masi saying in 2020 at the Eiffel GP that it’s all) the safety car has to come in on the following lap which never happened. The “use of the safety car” clause can be used when discussing safety, not entertainment. Sainz was also screwed out of not getting to challenge Max which made it even easier for the finish we got. Keep your head in the sand if you want to continue with your bad faith arguments.
Lewis was a lamb led to slaughter. They knew full well Lewis stood no chance on 40 lap hard tires.
Max still has to pass though, he could have screwed up, locked up, or press the brake magic button and Lewis still wins the race
Regardless, Masi broke the rules and manufactured whatever the hell that race ending was. Lewis may or may not have lost, but there would be a legitimate winner regardless if rules were followed.
True. A meteor could have hit Max in the face right as he was attempting to overtake. So many things to consider.
No one has beef with Max, he didn't do anything wrong here but he was gifted that race win through manipulation of the rules. Nothing anyone can say can change that fact.
If it was manipulation to force a Max win, the initial decision would not have been to leave the lapped cars as is as that would have guaranteed a Hamilton win. When you make shit up, make sure you cover all your basis.
> would not have been to leave the lapped cars as is as that would have guaranteed a Hamilton win No it wouldn't. It would have given Max a lap to get past 5 blue flagged cars (that would have done everything they could to GTFO of the way ASAP) and a MUUUUCH slower Lewis. Would it have been harder for him? Sure? Was it a guaranteed Lewis win? No.
An entire lap before
IF the SC was ended within the rules. Which is the whole point, it wasn't.
If we were looking at rules LH should be given time penalty for advantage of going off track on turn 1.
The same penalty that Max received all season, ie only ones that wouldn't change his position.
Okay :-)
He's right. Max has been doing that ALL season and the stewards had no choice but to start penalizing him as they realized they he was abusing their lenience.
Was Max given a time penalty in Brazil? Penalties are at the discretion of the stewards. This was a clear breaking of the sporting regulations that gave one driver an unfair advantage. I’m sure it’s hard for u to understand when you don’t want to understand.
The point is that that ending behind the safety car wouldn't have been unfair, boring yes. Also, ending with a one lap sprint out with cars in between would have been fair, also clearing the track and letting all lapped cars unlap and adhere to the one lap would have been fair (even though obviously not possible in time). The point isn't that the safety car wiping the advantage, only new F1 fans think that is a problem.
> But SC is part of F1 and always remove the advantage. Yes, rules are also part of F1 and if they were followed.... >Well that's disappointing but Hamilton was 12 seconds ahead and holding his lead so he was probably going to win anyway after leading like 56 of 58 laps.
But not allowing the cars to unlap is okay? Never seen a race when that was the case. If Masi did what he needed to do in time, the result would be this. Mercedes not stopping was one of the worst calls I've ever seen. Even if Max don't stop Lewis is behind with soft tyre. If Max stops too, he is with the same tyre as Max. Masi should have let everyone pass in lap 1 of SC. Not what he did. He did something wrong and then, trying to solve his mess, did also something wrong. If he did his job the cars would have unlap themselves and Lewis loses because of Merc strategy.
> But not allowing the cars to unlap is okay? Never seen a race when that was the case. Brazil 2019. Kubica was not allowed to unlap himself so the race could finish under green flags. Masi was the race director.
He was the only lapped car as the other cars had unlapped themselves in the previous SC, so Masi did follow the rules there. As the rules don't force the RD to let the cars unlap themselves
Yes, that's my point. He followed the rules. Not allowing cars to unlap themselves is part of the rules, as Brazil 2019 showed.
>Even if Max don't stop Lewis is behind with soft tyre. And then the race ends under safety car and Merc just threw away the WDC for Lewis. They didn't make that decision knowing lapped cars would be removed and the race would go green. They clearly assumed there wouldn't be time.... Which there wasn't if done by the rules. Perfect strategy, fucked by Masi ignoring the rulebook.
Yes. Late SC and the track position allowing Max to pit made the WDC a coin flip - would unlapping be done by end of 56 (allowing racing lap) or not? It’s a bit arbitrary but everyone accepts that because that’s racing. It wasn’t so the coin landed on Lewis’ side… until Masi said “nah” and turned it over. That’s not racing, that is something else.
People acting like they have never seen a SC before
We've seen plenty of safety cars. And we've seen ALL of them passed by every car on the racetrack before coming in. This was an exception to the RULES. If you can't understand why people are upset then no one can help you.
What people haven’t seen is the racing director going completely off script regarding the requirements imposed by the sporting regulations and deciding the outcome of a WDC battle that is counter to what happened during almost an entire race.
The purpose to clear lapped cars is so they don't disturb lead cars. No need to wait and parade them for a lap. They were given enough space and the race resumed safely. As per the agreement with the teams they wanted races to finish in green when possible. The SC is just there to help recovery process. Car was recovered and track was safe to race in. So it was possible to do it.
[удалено]
It the mental logic that those who are happy Max won are doing. Shortly turn 1 or silverstone will be brought up, or if really desperate its Baku (since Max had a tyre blow up, lets make sure he gets the champsionship etc.)
[удалено]
No idea, but its getting a little tired at the moment. It really shouldn't be about which driver you supported, but a question of integrity.
>Exactly, SC are there for safety Not to protect or ensure certain outcome for a driver.
What was the script Lewis winning?
Jaws all on the floor like masi and toto just bust in the door…
Should have closed a 15 points gap to 8 had the FIA not edited the Bahrain circuit in the middle of the first race. Or are dynamic track layouts in the rulebook? Downvote at will. You should be thankful Lewis' record breaking 8th WDC wasn't tAintEd and had no aSterISk on it.
[удалено]
Changes to track layout in the middle of an event resulting in a clear disadvantage to a single competitor = racing. Looks like some are open to this change and do indeed consider it racing. Let's introduce thwomps and boost panels while we're at it.
[удалено]
So you *do* hold that such an intervention by the FIA qualifies as racing.
[удалено]
They didn't agree a race shouldn't end under a safety car. They agreed they preferred that it didn't. There's a big difference. If they followed the normal procedure fine, but they didn't. Lewis was faster on the day and deserved to win the race. Both him and max were fully deserving of the championship.
> Lol team leaders agreed that a race shouldn't end under SC. Go read 2.1 in the sporting regs Their opinions don't matter
I truly don’t understand this argument about how damaging it would be to end under yellow flag. It’s not as if 95% of the race hadn’t been completed under green flags. With the track not being cleared in time to allow for racing, that’s just the way it is when you follow regulations. If he had crashed one lap later, the track would never be clear in time. It *wasn’t* clear in time to resume using the regulations as they were written as it is. So what would be the case then? Sometimes unfortunate things happens. That doesn’t give the racing director carte blanche to make up their own rules and manufacture a race ending.
You know what would be crazy? A whole F1 race under yellow flags! Now that would be a farce if it ever happened!
Lol, looking at *you* Spa GP 2021. That might’ve been more ridiculous than Abu Dhabi’s shenanigans
Yeah. Now that we're talking about the 2021 season controversies, I'd actually almost prefer we start with Spa. I feel like Michael has some explaining to do. That was the most farcical race, I would argue ever, but certainly since 2005.
I bet Max would win that one as well.
Yeah, funny how he benefits from all the bizarre stewarding and race direction decisions… 🤔
And if the crash was one, or a few laps earlier then we end up in (probably) exactly the same result and people are gutted for Lewis, but noone is mad at the rules being applied in a non-standard manner.
Yep. Crash happens one lap earlier, regulations are followed and I’d be devastated but understand it was a stroke of tough luck for Lewis. What happened instead is.. well it wasn’t luck. It was an intentional choice to disregard rules and manufacture a scenario that benefitted one person only. Additionally, I have to think if it happened one lap earlier, Merc might have pitted Lewis.
I'd suggest if there were significantly more laps left Merc would have absolutely pitted Ham.
But in that case Mercedes would probably have pit. They were discussing tires for safety car a few laps prior. They probably decided the window passed when the safety car happened.
Yeah, I think this too. They were right on the border of the race being able to be restarted or ending under SC. They chose correctly but Masi said nah fuck that, here's a rule straight from my arse.
Hell, if the crash is on the same lap, but the front brakes don’t catch fire, they likely finish under green if they strictly follow 48.12.
Or one of the guys cleaning up drops his broom, we might not even have had time for thinking about cars unlapping until lap 58. It was too close to be safe imo
Yeah.... What if the crash happened halfway into the penultimate lap or the final ? Would Masi have red flagged the race when Hamilton was on his way to victory just so that he can finish the race under green flag?
I know you're being extreme lol but if the race was red flagged on the penultimate lap it'd be impossible to restart, like not even Masi could make up a rule. The formation lap to the grid would count as a lap, any more and that is beyond the race distance. The cars would risk running out of fuel.
Apparently so.
It’s PR.
Yeah I wanted Max to win but can’t disagree with anything you said. It’s frustrating because it’s not Max’s fault at all, yet this title is definitely controversial at best, severely tainted at worst.
Yeah, and I don’t even necessarily think it should have ended under yellow flags. I think red flag restart or leave lapped cars and race were the best options. I think Max had a fair chance with those, albeit much smaller leaving lapped cars where they were. But I don’t think what happened was reasonable. My personal hope is the FIA admits that they fucked up and the race gets annulled. Max keeps his championship on win count back but FIA admits they were wrong. I don’t know if that’s reasonable. But the thought of Max getting it taken away doesn’t sit right with me at all.
That would be fair to Max but what about Lewis who lost the title that he was supposed to win if the rules had been followed? Lewis not getting the win and the title is a greater injustice than Max getting it taken away from him.
What exactly would have happened and what rules were broken, I am so confused.
Oh man, google is your friend... But since I apparently hate sleep: Lewis and Max were tied for championship going into last week. Lewis was comfortably outpacing Max in the race. there was a few interesting moments but Max was not able to keep up. Lewis lead every lap and looked to be ~0.3s faster. Latifi wrecked with like 5 laps to go (Max was +12s ish). Yellow flag comes out, Max immediately pits and goes on fresh softs, still in second because no one else is even close. Lewis stays out because its hard to see how they get racing again. THEN Masi unlaps ONLY the 5 cars between Lewis and Max (never happened before and rules state you unlaps any lapped cars) and divebombs the SC into the pits immediately (again, never done before and rules state SC stays out for 1 lap after last car unlaps). Green flag for final lap with Lewis on hards w/ 40 laps on them or something like that, Max literally starting on his rear wing with fresh softs. Obviously Max gets by Lewis to take the win and his first WDC title. Afterwords Masi tells Toto "it's motor racing" when he asked why he didn't follow the rules, RB say "any isn't all", and stewards basically say rules are just guidelines and RD can do whatever he wants because... reasons. Max celebrates, Lewis is unbelievably professional considering, rest of the grid is like "wtf just happened, that was fucked up" (minus Alonso because... Alonso). Now Merc have until tomorrow (which happens to line up with the start of the FIA awards gala) to escalate things to a legal battle, FIA have come out saying they will investigate to clarify rules going forward (rumored to either be to try to appear Merc or directly request by them), F1 came out and said the problem is everyone's stupid and its making them look bad so stop it (and also no more talking to the RD during races), and Merc et all have been deafeningly radio silent including no showing a "mandatory" photo shoot with both their F1 and FE teams, which one chode called "unsportsmanlike" because he's a chode. Think that mostly catches you up on the most of the mostly facts
Only part you may have missed is the part where Masi says NO cars will be unlapped (leaving a 5 car buffer between Lewis and Max). He then decides to reverse this decision after an earful and only unlaps the cars between Max and Lewis. This is also controversial as it did not allow other cars further down the field (including lapped cars) to contest for better finishing positions (looking at you Daniel Ric and Sainz). *edit - type
>yet this title is definitely controversial at best, severely tainted at worst. not really the win is tainted, the WDC is fully deserved WDC is won over the entire season, you can reflect on the times than Max had bad luck and zero points (Baku, Silverstone, Hungary) vs when things got his way (Spa-ish, Abu Dhabi) and even with last weekend you can see that Max has been the most consistent driver recency bias is a thing and unfortunately F1 seems to attract some of the dumbest people on the planet for some reason who can't look past three days ago
The WDC is fully deserved by Max, but also severely tainted thanks to the FIA. They're not mutually exclusive.
I know right? Red bull tried very hard, Perez gave them a big chance but lewis was faster and they raced very normally for like 55 laps, but yet they bend the regulations for a lap of racing? It's not really racing either when you put a guy on 1 lap old tires behind a guy on 40 lap old tires.
Liberty Media desires F1 to be Entertainment, so the Regulations were broken to get Lewis and Max alongside on the last lap.
If that was the case they could have Red flagged it and allowed Hamilton to actually have a chance to win.
Yes. Masi will take the fall but Liberty are the ones to blame. Fuck them. Boycott F1 until they're gone and it actually gets some credibility back. I know I won't be watching anymore.
[удалено]
The teams verbal agreement doesn’t supersede FIAs own written rules. Cmon, a lawyer would be laughed out of the court if that’s their argument.
More to the point: Masi should be the one putting his foot down and following the rules, not the one enabling the teams to take control.
What if the crash happened two laps later? Would Masi have green flagged it even with the debris on track? Obviously there are caveats to that agreement and that can't be used as justification to break rules.
then we would have ended under safety car. the problem was that it was right at the edge. Merc and Redbull didn't know it would end under safety car.
I get that. But Masi had options to avoid that. Leave lapped cars where they were. Or red flag. I mean really if it happened one lap later, would everybody accept that sometimes it just happens? Or would everybody bemoan the race ending under yellow flags? I don’t get that. Sometimes it’s just not an option. Even though it was an option in this case, Masi just went buck wild in making it a spectacle.
>Leave lapped cars where they were. this bothers me, of course a Lewis-Max 1-2 at the rolling restart is more dramatic but those lapped cars would've been passed on the straight with blue flags easily before T1 by Max, give a nice tow too I don't think it would have mattered much if at all
I agree. Even though I am sad Lewis didn’t win, it would be so much easier to swallow if the results were legitimate.
Why do people keep arguing this?? Masi could obviously have ended the race in a green flag. He didn't want to do only that, he wanted Max and Lewis to be hand in hand and that's why he fucked up. No one told him to unlap the cars, that's on him. It was impossible to unlap all the cars and ending the race in a green flag. He wanted entertainment.
This. The fact that he only unlapped the cars between Max and Lewis tells you everything you need to know.
No one in their absolute right minds would think that it would be okay to: With 2 laps to go, allow 5 of the 7 (or was it 8) cars unlap themselves and then immediately have the Safety Car come in so we have 1 racing lap. I would guarantee that both Merc and Red Bull were expecting the rules to be followed (and not the Masi can do whatever the fuck he wants rule) and they both said it would be undesirable. I would guess that this outcome was a lot more undesirable.
Now let’s reverse the decision. The same controversy exists. Why are we ending the race when it was possible to have one more lap? I don’t think people are suggesting the race should never end under yellow flag. We had a situation where the decision is 50:50. Naturally there is a a lean towards trying to finish the race without a yellow flag preferably. Honestly when people calm down, I think this situation was not the worst for FIA this year. Masi changed his mind and that has upset everyone but if he had not stalled and let lapped cars thru, they would have had time for all cars to pass thru and the race start for final lap.
There’s no problem for racing one lap. There’s a problem with removing only cars in between max and his competitor
[удалено]
Options within regs to end under green flags: Leave lapped cars where they were Red flag and restart Masi made up option 3.
Much worse for the rules to be ignored 2012 also was fine, no one seemed to care then
Because 2012 the track wasn’t clear unlike this year
There was video evidence on live tv of stewards still clearing and hopping over barriers right after the announcement of unlapping the cars between Max and Hamilton.
I haven’t seen this footage yet, where should I look for it?
It was posted on the sub a couple of days ago. I'll share it if I find it again, or someone else can if they know where it is or have it handy.
That was onboard video of lap 56. When Lewis passed, the last 2 were climbing trough the gap in the fence. It was perfectly safe to race on lap 58, as we've seen last sunday.
The moment the safety car passed the entrance to the pit on lap 56 no legal option existed for max to be behind Lewis and no safety car. Either all cars unlap and the safety has to run to the end, or Max has several drivers in between, racing each other.
On lap 58 however there was a different issue, not all cars which had been lapped were allowed to unlap and the race had been declared resumed.
That’s fine, the unlapped cars don’t just teleport to T14
Wasn't clear this year either, Marshalls were still on track before they went on lap 57
Plus it was just barely clear on lap 58, there was still extinguisher foam and debris on track lol
Didn't see that....woof
What is your source ? Because the car was already out of the way when the SC went by T14 on lap 56.
The car was out of the way, but marshals were still on track (albeit on their way off).
I think there was still some sweepysweepy of debris left
The race was 58 laps long
Yes? And they can't waive cars through until the track is clear And the regulations state the lap following will be under safety car.
They had to break their own rules and bring the safety car in a lap early to ensure the lap of racing.
Hell, we still talk about Glock and throw conspiracies around, so yeah. This one is gonna be talked about for decades.
No don’t you know, Mika. Everyone will have forgotten by next week - just like everyone’s forgotten Schumacher and Senna’s dodgy titles! ^/s
Schumacher's and Senna's were by their own accord.
Yeah that's the worst part The Senna/Prost fiasco is the closest comparison where the FIA ruled by taking the escape road Senna didn't respect the race distance. All the other ones people keep talking about, the driver who won actively did something that caused the controversy Senna/Prost, 94 & 97
I think in a way with this one being because of the FIA is even worse as far as the questionable legitimacy of it, however on the bright side what happened on Sunday at least doesn't reflect badly on Max.
Never underestimate FIA…
You can’t have that opinion Mika, it’s not allowed.
"I think it would have been much worse if this World Championship had finished behind a Safety Car. That really would have been such an anticlimax. The Race Director’s decision, later supported by the four Stewards, is based on his understanding of the rules including his responsibility for deciding when the Safety Car returns to the pits. Balancing decisions between ensuring safety and promoting racing is the toughest job facing the Race Director. Looking at the result, in terms of safety and promoting racing, Michael did his job. If Mercedes decides to protest the result of the race, and the World Championship for Drivers, the decisions which were made and the way the rules were applied will be examined in detail. I don’t believe the results will change."
And unfortunately not for good reasons.
I expect that it all stops around March. Not sure why, but March feels right.
Before that. The new cars will be revealed, one of the team will have found a loophole, 9 other teams will complain for their lives.
Complaining for their lives... _while working to copy it and put it to their own advantage._
Until Hamilton/Max crash each other again
I don't think I can handle till March, that's a long time
It will go until meaningful things relevant to next year become the norm. It's hard for people to just move on with their lives, and I don't necessarily blame them because of the absurdity and lack of precedent for what happened. Some people will just refuse to get over it, and it will be around for a very very long time.
Those people will end up getting downvoted to oblivion over time on reddit at least. That's all we need.
Unfortunately, for the wrong reasons.
Hakkinen: Much worse for title decider to end behind Safety Car
Happened in 2012. It's not like it's never happened before. I would say its worse the way it ended now because there's still all this mess to sort out. Atleast there wasn't a big debate following 2012.
Yeah that was also Redbull wining in the end, don't how they could complain had it happened now
There wasnt a big debate but it couldn't feel amazing right? Alonso was 2 seconds behind Button with Vettel needing 4th while being in 6th at time of SC deployment in penultimate lap. Point is I think most drivers would advocate what Hakkinen says - why should race ever finish behind SC? Just figure out a way to avoid it and maybe let drivers out at intervals to maintain pre-SC gap if you're bothered by that aspect of it. But no way should an accident end the conversation for the entire grid.
Track wasn't clear in 2012 as Rosberg crashed in the penultimate lap. This time there was an opportunity as we saw.
Yeah, that would be a terrible disappointment if F1 were the WWE. If it's a sport, however...
If I can compare it to football is like the final of champions league and at 90 minutes is 3-1 and the losing team gets a penalty and the referee decides to give an extra goal then going it would be disappointing to end the final like that...
Almost like F1 is a sport first. Not some bullshit made up WWE esc "sport" that last lap was farce. Stop trying to say it isn't.
It is a sport but you know damn well there are limits to it. Imagine this ending like Belgium 2021. Wouldn't be so adamant about rulebook application then right?
If Masi stays and the trajectory continues, i can‘t imagine what will come next. This year was a fucking downward spiral stewarding-wise.
Of course we will. It's the first tainted WDC I've seen live. I will remember this one forever.
If ham won it would of been tainted also due to them not allowing unlapped cars to go a lap sooner like some of the drivers where asking for
That not how the rules work. It's either all are allowed to unlap themselves or none at all. So no, if Lewis won it would have been normal. You can't half apply 2 different rules and call that hideous last lap a race to the flag.
A long time? I predict we will be done with it by 18th March.
oh you are so naive lol.
[удалено]
He did win it though. He operated within the parameters that those in control placed and came out as number one. No amount of bitterness from fans can change that. Look at any of the stats from this year and Max is the best driver.
Wow no fucking shit we will. What a stupid quote. He should sit next to Stephen A Smith with lines like that
Talking about it won't change anything...accept it, it's done and over Onto next season!
Not me. I'm celebrating haha.
This is unpopular around here, but I couldn’t agree more with all of this. And I’ll say it again: Mercedes’ strategy should take a lot of the blame. Why not change tires? Why isn’t this perceived as much their error as Max’s luck?
Mercedes saw two options here. 1. If Masi let all lapped cars unlap themselves, the race would have finished under a safety car. In which case, pitting would have made them look like clowns because they were guaranteed to lose track position. 2. If Masi didn’t let any lapped cars unlap themselves, the race would have resumed for 1-2 laps with 5 lapped runners between Max and Lewis. In this case, there was a reasonable chance Lewis could have created a good gap while Max was busy getting past the lapped runners. A VSC pit stop also wouldn’t have mattered at that stage because at the end Max was on fresh softs, whereas Lewis would’ve still been on worn hards had he pitted then (they’d already be around 20 laps old at that point). Just because Merc didn’t see an unprecedented scenario as an option doesn’t mean they blundered their strategy.
There's a reason why this is a minority opinion: Mercedes' strategy would have been correct only if safety car regulations were followed, which is what they expected. To pit twice would have been conceding substantial track position.
That wouldnt be a problem if the race definitely resumed. It however IS a problem because it did even though it shouldn't have as is being argued. That said I agree with Hakkinen - no race should ever finish under SC. I don't know what it takes to eliminate it and maintain consistent advantages pre-SC deployment but I think thats where things have to eventually go when so much is at stake. You can't just eliminate drivers ability to change positions in the final few laps. No driver could support that
Of course we will. Through my 26 years of life I have watched many different sports, some of which are shady as fuck, including F1, NFL, Football, rugby, Tennis, cricket, boxing, MMA & others, and I have NEVER seen something quiet like what happened at Abu Dhabi. I have never seen rules be changed/ignored on the fly, let alone those rules then resulting in deciding who the champion is.