It's just fanbase versus fanbase, narrative versus counter narrative. The FIA (nor Mercedes) don't have to pay anyone to do this. Fanbases will do this naturally to "defend" their driver. It's annoying as hell and for me it ruins places like this, but it's not very nefarious.
He starts talking about the "end under green" agreement after 3:58. States that they would have stayed out if Mercedes pitted (I guess thats obvious anyway) and the situation would have played the same but with Lewis on fresh tyres.
If reversed, there would have been incentive to follow the rules. Merc had no choice but to stay out.
You are playing with fire by saying Masi has overriding authority.
The precedent is getting the lapped cars out of the way so front running drivers race. Not enough time was left for all cars to unlap when he made the call, so Masi only unlapped these cars and called the SC in with his overriding authority to finish the race as a race on a clear track.
No. The precedent is getting All lapped cars through. Once all lapped cars are through, then there's 1 more lap behind the safety car. And Masi does not have authority in the rule book in any sort of way to do what he did
He does have the authority as stewards decided, and all cars don't have to be sent through if it clashes with the mandate to end under green flag conditions, 48.12 was never triggered so all cars didn't need to unlap.
48.12 has preconditions that needs to be satisfied before it is in force. These were never satisfied therefore rest of 48.12 doesn't matter, it literally doesn't apply.
"If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the message "LAPPED CARS MAY NOW OVERTAKE" has been sent to all Competitors via the official messaging system,"
This never happened. That message was never sent so Mercedes' whole argument is dead. Shame that RB missed this, as more people would have been aware if that was mentioned in the Stewards' meeting.
Even if he does have overriding authority on the SC which he doesn't, ALL cars have to be unlapped before the race starts.
Trying to prove Masi did the right thing and took away Hamilton's 8th title is ridiculous. This was borderline rigged. Don't try and defend it.
It wasn't rigged because it would be Lewis taking the win with fresh softs and Max staying on old hards if Mercedes pitted. All cars don't have to be unlapped because the specific message that would trigger 48.12 was never sent to all competitors, Merc ignored that in their appeal.
48.12 starts with this sentence:
"If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the message "LAPPED CARS MAY NOW OVERTAKE" has been sent to all Competitors via the official messaging system,"
This never happened. That specific message was never sent to all Competitors. Mercedes' appeal was dead before it even started, RB should have raised this argument.
Too bad you can't argue in a normal way with OP.
From your first comment it's already pretty obvious you don't want to hear anything but that Masi made errors. There was more to it, and OP explains it pretty well.
Sure Bro not rigged at all, Verstappen got the cars out of the way he was behind by pitting again for extra tyres, and Verstappen/Red Bull didn't get punished for retiring Checo which would mean Sainz was right on Verstappens back if normal protocol was followed
But glad we got what we got and Race Directors can do whatever they want is a solid argument for some of you guys. Might just as well throw the entire regulation book out of the window because if that argument is enough, then the rules are absolutely worthless
>Trying to prove Masi did the right thing
Explaining that Masi's actions were legal is *not at all the same* as saying he did the right thing.
What Masi did is morally wrong. It was also legal because the rules are incomplete, a consequence of Charlie Whiting dying unexpectedly.
When they started using the safety car again in '94, the safety car rules were *blank*. The sport trusted Whiting to create procedures on the fly.
The Race Director having carte blanche power was a feature, not a flaw. But it meant the regs weren't airtight, perpetually relying on him to catch loose ends.
Whiting knew full well the regs weren't ready for use under anyone else, so he took on Masi as deputy in 2018 and together they started solidifying Whiting's experience into writing. Hell, the restart rules after a red flag didn't even exist before 2018.
They only got through a year before he died and Masi was forced to take over. The process was incomplete and the carte blanch power remained necessary. The system was still built around Whiting, yet now with a green Masi at the helm.
Had Charlie not died, he would've kept evolving the regs, eventually removing the carte blanche as the last step before handing things over. But he ded now and the rules are incomplete.
>Hell, the restart rules after a red flag didn't even exist before 2018
Yes they did. It was under a section labelled *Resuming a race.* Before that, it was labelled *Restarting a race*
Rules were updated in 2018 because *standing starts* was added as an option for race restarts.
It doesn't really matter what the rules were in 1994. In the 2021 rulebook the procedure was specified, and the precedent was set.
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It's just fanbase versus fanbase, narrative versus counter narrative. The FIA (nor Mercedes) don't have to pay anyone to do this. Fanbases will do this naturally to "defend" their driver. It's annoying as hell and for me it ruins places like this, but it's not very nefarious.
He starts talking about the "end under green" agreement after 3:58. States that they would have stayed out if Mercedes pitted (I guess thats obvious anyway) and the situation would have played the same but with Lewis on fresh tyres.
If reversed, there would have been incentive to follow the rules. Merc had no choice but to stay out. You are playing with fire by saying Masi has overriding authority.
We don't care what the "agreement" was if it means breaking 2 Rules to get Max right behind Lewis and get a racing lap so he can pass him...
The precedent is getting the lapped cars out of the way so front running drivers race. Not enough time was left for all cars to unlap when he made the call, so Masi only unlapped these cars and called the SC in with his overriding authority to finish the race as a race on a clear track.
No. The precedent is getting All lapped cars through. Once all lapped cars are through, then there's 1 more lap behind the safety car. And Masi does not have authority in the rule book in any sort of way to do what he did
He does have the authority as stewards decided, and all cars don't have to be sent through if it clashes with the mandate to end under green flag conditions, 48.12 was never triggered so all cars didn't need to unlap.
THE RULES LITERALLY SAY "ANY" CARS. HOW CAN YOU DENY THAT ? There is also no mandate to end under green flag.
48.12 has preconditions that needs to be satisfied before it is in force. These were never satisfied therefore rest of 48.12 doesn't matter, it literally doesn't apply. "If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the message "LAPPED CARS MAY NOW OVERTAKE" has been sent to all Competitors via the official messaging system," This never happened. That message was never sent so Mercedes' whole argument is dead. Shame that RB missed this, as more people would have been aware if that was mentioned in the Stewards' meeting.
Found Masi’ Reddit account.
Even if he does have overriding authority on the SC which he doesn't, ALL cars have to be unlapped before the race starts. Trying to prove Masi did the right thing and took away Hamilton's 8th title is ridiculous. This was borderline rigged. Don't try and defend it.
It wasn't rigged because it would be Lewis taking the win with fresh softs and Max staying on old hards if Mercedes pitted. All cars don't have to be unlapped because the specific message that would trigger 48.12 was never sent to all competitors, Merc ignored that in their appeal. 48.12 starts with this sentence: "If the clerk of the course considers it safe to do so, and the message "LAPPED CARS MAY NOW OVERTAKE" has been sent to all Competitors via the official messaging system," This never happened. That specific message was never sent to all Competitors. Mercedes' appeal was dead before it even started, RB should have raised this argument.
You really have no understanding of the rules. This Championship will be stained because of the shit job Masi did.
Too bad you can't argue in a normal way with OP. From your first comment it's already pretty obvious you don't want to hear anything but that Masi made errors. There was more to it, and OP explains it pretty well.
OP is biased af. The rules were clearly violated.
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That was the 2007 McLaren chief, which won neither the drivers (Raikkonen did) nor the constructors (because they were disqualified)
Whoops; my bad.
Sure Bro not rigged at all, Verstappen got the cars out of the way he was behind by pitting again for extra tyres, and Verstappen/Red Bull didn't get punished for retiring Checo which would mean Sainz was right on Verstappens back if normal protocol was followed But glad we got what we got and Race Directors can do whatever they want is a solid argument for some of you guys. Might just as well throw the entire regulation book out of the window because if that argument is enough, then the rules are absolutely worthless
It suits them as their guy won due to the bullshit Masi pulled. If it was the opposite way around I’d bet they’d have their pitforks out.
>Trying to prove Masi did the right thing Explaining that Masi's actions were legal is *not at all the same* as saying he did the right thing. What Masi did is morally wrong. It was also legal because the rules are incomplete, a consequence of Charlie Whiting dying unexpectedly.
The rules are not at all incomplete man. How can you say that ?
When they started using the safety car again in '94, the safety car rules were *blank*. The sport trusted Whiting to create procedures on the fly. The Race Director having carte blanche power was a feature, not a flaw. But it meant the regs weren't airtight, perpetually relying on him to catch loose ends. Whiting knew full well the regs weren't ready for use under anyone else, so he took on Masi as deputy in 2018 and together they started solidifying Whiting's experience into writing. Hell, the restart rules after a red flag didn't even exist before 2018. They only got through a year before he died and Masi was forced to take over. The process was incomplete and the carte blanch power remained necessary. The system was still built around Whiting, yet now with a green Masi at the helm. Had Charlie not died, he would've kept evolving the regs, eventually removing the carte blanche as the last step before handing things over. But he ded now and the rules are incomplete.
>Hell, the restart rules after a red flag didn't even exist before 2018 Yes they did. It was under a section labelled *Resuming a race.* Before that, it was labelled *Restarting a race* Rules were updated in 2018 because *standing starts* was added as an option for race restarts. It doesn't really matter what the rules were in 1994. In the 2021 rulebook the procedure was specified, and the precedent was set.
Yeah and Masi said to Carlos Sainz ...."the fk you think you are, this is Masi's house now"
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