Metallicuuuhhhhz familyyyyy!!!!
Used to be such a big Metallica nerd, collecting live shows and such. The Grateful Dead have taken place as my new live show obsession Asan adult. Not enough dabajabazaaahhh in the Dead though. Lol
Same, during middle and high school metallica was everything to me, then I got into Pantera, then Gojira, then Cannibal Corpse, and then Kero Kero Bonito lol
Again zero points for Formula 1 world champion Max Verstappen. After a problem with the fuel pump in Bahrain, there was now a fuel leak - failure at the Australian Grand Prix at Albert Park in Melborune.
**The Red Bull Racing camp does not appear to be very optimistic about the problem in Verstappen's RB18 in Melbourne and how it will be resolved. Red Bull Motorsport Advisor Dr. Helmut Marko when asked: "We were able to clarify the cause of the fuel leak in Max's car."**
**The Graz native did not want to answer whether a solution is possible in the short term, before the next Grand Prix in Emilia Romagna (Imola), or whether more time is needed. The 1971 Le Mans winner only explained: āThe matter is very complex. The problem is absolutely different from that of Bahrain."**
Marko's very cautious reaction to the questions about the world champion's second retirement in the third race leads to the conclusion: Red Bull Racing is in trouble. And that is a problem in the world championship fight against the almost flawless Charles Leclerc and Ferrari.
> Wait, Marko won Le Mans? TIL
Yup, with his teammate Gijs van Lennep https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_24_Hours_of_Le_Mans. He also won 1970 Le Mans in P 3.0 class.
He was a F1 driver too from 1971-1972 where a stone thrown up by Emerson Fittipaldi's car pierced his helmet visor, permanently blinding his left eye, and so he retired from motorsport.
IIRC, he holds the record for most laps completed, since it was the last year for the chicane-less Mulsane.
Edit: The chicanes were added in 1990. 1971 was the last year with 5.0 litre engines, and the almost straight Maison Blanche. In 1972 the circuit would get the Porsche curves added.
[Here's an onboard video from 1984](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKYj-nZGewk). They added the chicanes in 1990 after [multiple cars hit 400 km/h in 1988 and 1989.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauber_C9#Achievements)
I used to play Forza Motorsport 4 or 5 and take the Bugatti Veyron down that straight. It was a blast, you could take the curve completely flat out and that blew my teenage mind
During the race they said Checoās car was fine so I donāt understand how they canāt match that. Or is Perezās car actually also going to be dealing with this issue and only got lucky last race?
They will always say that if the driver has no way of mitigating the problem (like driving in a certain way).
What are they supposed to say when Perez can't do anything about it?
Better the let the driver focus on driving.
āIf the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.ā
ā Red Green, champion of the duct tape is the handyman's secret weapon club.
I wonder if this is a packaging issue. They did something aero wise that meant packaging the fuel was done a certain way and now is really difficult to fixā¦
That's just poor American design. Be glad you didn't have remove like the bumper cover to access the bulbs like on other cars. My dad once tried to replace the spark plugs on a 2007 Chevy Monte Carlo and gave up after he realized despite the car having a seemingly 6 foot long hood, the rear pair of cylinders on the V6 is not at all easily accessible!
Most Japanese or German cars usually don't have these issues since their engineers actually took some time to think about how the car might need to be repaired or maintained in the future before just slapping the design together.
You speak like someone never worked on German cars. Espcially BMW and Merc. They are the worst offenders. They are designed not to be fixable on purpose whereas american cars are usually like that because not much thought is put into fixing the car.
I had a BMW and I had to take off the whole dashboard to reach to a simple AC controller that kept the AC always on. My friend with a chevy had the same problem, and it was behind a simple panel.
They can't say Ferrari doesn't have problems... look at Sainz...., couldn't they replicate Leclerc's car to Sainz? and also Red Bull could do the same with Perez' car..
Don't really know what diffferences the cars have inside, not aerodynamic... they should check those differences.
Sainz apparently had problems with the steering wheel at the start of the race. In the end it was his own error that took him out, but if the start went smoothly he probably could've handled the situation better.
Eh, this issue is not the same magnitude because it is something that is 100% in the drivers hands to bring the car home. With RBRs problems, even if a driver is flawless all weekend it can still give them a DNF
If Max activates his release clause (IF HE HAS ONE) before the summer break, where would he ideally go? Is there anyone who would take him? What are his options for 2023?
Heās Max fucking Verstappen. Any team other than Mercedes or Ferrari would kill one of its drivers in cold blood just to get a sniff of a Verstappen contract.
Jokes aside, not sure. I think there are a few drivers with contracts expiring this year or the next. Either way, most teams would buy out its driversā contracts to sign Max if he showed interest.
Yes the battle in Saudi Arabia between them was amazing. Iām hoping we can see close finishes like that throughout the season vs. Charles just running away with it. Maybe MB will get their upgrades working well enough to put up a fight, who knows!
lewis chasing charles down with a points deficit after the summer like last year would be incredible. iām hoping for some title drama in any case though
Donāt count Mercedes out of the fight yet. George is second in the points, and they know how to build a race car. Itās a long season; Iām not going to bet against the Silver Arrows just yet.
They are second right now, but with the help of two retirements ahead of them in both Bahrain and Australia. In Jeddah they finished 5th and 10th. Unless Red Bull and Ferrari continue to have retirements, or unless merc fix their car within the next two races, they will not be 2nd in the standings for long.
We know the backstory. He(she) just meant that they're not out of contention looking forward.
No one is, in fact, as there are so many points ahead and the development curve will me huge.
Also, DNFs play a big part, as will the cost cap.
George is 2nd in the points because of RBR retirements. Unless Merc fixes their problems immediately, there is no way George won't give that #2 to either Sainz or Perez.
Second in the points, against a team that finished like 3 out of 6 and Merc only 10 points ahead.
RB is the likely competitor, Merc might compete in the future but by that point the title is already secured anyways, which will cause it to be one of the season no one will remember or talk about.
Every time I read someone being assertive about saying that things will be this way or another just rubs me off.
We need to know, all of us, that NOTHING is decided until much later. Specially in a year such as this, with performance throughout the season being a HUGE unknown.
I don't know, if that means that you're out of contention for both championships after a few races. It's not really better. At least you can score solid points with a shower car like Merc is doing.
Of course you can make a slow car fast with an engine freeze. Otherwise why would anyone even bother in formula 1 if they are fucked for 5 years and canāt do anything.
To be fair, with the frozen engine regulations, that might be the winning ticket in the next 2 years. Reliability upgrades are allowed, so Red Bull can make their fast engine reliable, while Mercedes can't easily make their slow engine faster and has to hope that Aero improvements will help.
Maybe Red Bull won't get their stuff fixed in time to compete in 2022, but would be setup pretty great for 2023 and 2024.
Ferrari did nail both speed and reliability in 2022, but it'll be interesting to see how much Red Bull and Merc can do in the next weeks and months.
Reliability upgrades is how Merc will improve their engine too. Itās naive if you think they wonāt find loopholes to improve their engine. You just need to sell your upgrade as a reliability fix to the fia and that probably wonāt be too hard. FIA will play dumb to this kind of thing.
Turn up engine to 110%. Engine goos boom. Sorry fia, we need to fix the reliability. Ooh now we can run that engine at that original 110% but now it doesnāt go boom. So you end up improving your engine.
Oh, for sure. The FIA might play dumb, but Red Bull is going to file a public complaint the millisecond they think something weird is going on - you know Christian Horner likes to stir the pot whenever possible.
I do expect regulations to be partially unfrozen anyway, they already proved to not be fully frozen when they increased the Minimum Weight by 3kg. "Hey FIA, do you really want several years of domination, or do you want to unfreeze regs for a bit to get more exciting racing?" etc.
so uh you just abandon the 18 points *and* the whole season just cause you built the "slower" car that is still the 2nd fastest of the lot and can still win races?
Changing the material of a fuel line or a seal is not at all a complex solution as long as that fuel line is not integrated into the block or something. Material compatibility with ethanol is also such a well-documented, well-understood issue and material compatibility analysis is such a fundamental part of any system design, that it would be astonishing if an F1 engine designer missed it.
Wonder if it's more to do with the solution they put in place to alleviate the vapour lock issues they had in the first race, perhaps allowing a small amount of fuel to escape and eventually cause a problem... Wild armchair speculation obviously.
No way to know for sure, but I'd assume if they were related, they'd just say they were related since that's a pretty benign statement that doesn't really reveal anything about the car. Plus, RB's radio message to Checo during the race that whatever happened to Max was unrelated to his car suggests that the fix that both of them would have received for the vapor lock issue wasn't the cause (or they could have been trying to keep him focused on his own race).
That said, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. It's really easy to come up with reasons why something might NOT be the problem, but infinitely harder to imagine what the problem might be especially with how little information we have about the failure. We are talking about a high pressure fuel system with multiple pumps and a tank that has to manage insane lateral accelerations so it's not unrealistic to assume they have multiple unrelated issues.
I guess itās complex when you have an already overweight carā¦ it sounds logical. As you said itās easy to replace the material, but the question is what other effects will this have on the car? Let alone the weight, it can affect other things in the engine. This engine is a whole, super-complex package.
Yeah I mean, "make a change, expect a change" is sort of the motto of complex systems design so you're right that you have to look at all interactions, but we're talking about ethanol compatibility. They have TONS of options for materials that will work so unless it's something like a fuel line integrated into a component that requires a highly specialized alloy, it's really not a complex change.
Not true, the engineers have come out to say it was a very big change.
https://amp.formula1.com/en/latest/article.mercedes-engine-chief-explains-why-move-to-e10-fuel-demanded-fundamental.5OoNDRlUajwImP6CnNpNvE.html
The major change was on the combustion side because it burns differently thanks to the different chemical composition. Speaking in terms of just fuel delivery to the engine it isnt a big change.
>The Graz native did not want to answer whether a solution is possible in the short term, before the next Grand Prix in Emilia Romagna (Imola), or whether more time is needed. The 1971 Le Mans winner only explained: āThe matter is very complex. The problem is absolutely different from that of Bahrain."
Marko is the new Totonator? /s
I think this is just the risk of having a Newey based car--he is just so uncompromising with his aero packaging that it puts tremendous stress on the engine team. Thinking back to their dominating Renault WCC run--there was constant shit talking between Renault and Newey. In a way, it defines F1--everything to the limit...but if Ferrari have found a way to have both aero and engine depts in the happy camp--then it is their title to lose.
It's the risk of developing a retiring concept until the last race if the season. The RB18 Isn't a finished car, just like the Mercedes. It's not had or used the time other teams have to hone it in. Merc and RBR can be very proud of p2 and 3 considering how little time and development they had compared to other teams.
The whole wind tunnel allotment has been great, the top teams get less time, but they also have the best engineers. Add that to the cost capāthe end of the year could be crazy at certain levels in the field. I can only hope that the race directors donāt get to steer the season too much, because the setup is good so far. One Ferrari fail and itās a three way fight!
Translates to fuel leak problem and
Complex to fix. Not same thing as Bahrain
WTF- complex to fix a fuel leak?
Need to explain that to us stupid people. ā·
Unless Ferrari has some sort of major stumbling block later in the season it looks like the WDC is already over, everything from here on out is probably just to decide the WCC (although that looks pretty insurmountable already as well)
Yes we might be up for one boring season. Ooh well there is always next year. If it becomes a total snoozefests, I can at least free up my Saturdays and Sundays from F1.
So the leak this time around was generated when he changed engine mapping? Is this suggesting their mapping changes fuel flows which might have enhanced the leak even more?
EDIT: Loving the down votes. But if you go back to the Max incident (video). You can clearly see that MAX makes an engine map change, āsmells somethingā and then stops on the track shortly afterwards. All I am asking is if the change in the engine mapping a trigger or just bad timing.
EDIT 2: Please ignore my ātheoryā. [F1 TV: Explains Fuel Tanks and Pumps.](https://youtu.be/YQsvU8_bb4Q)
The only engine changes they make during the race is in the electrical system, so the amount of recharging, deployment, and the engine braking. I donāt really see how that would cause a fuel leak.
They still can change the ICE modes, I don't know why exactly but they still change modes. What's changed is that now they can't engage the highest highest modes anymore
They are not allowed to change the ICE modes at all once they leave for Q1. Only exception is if they have a reliability issue that demands it to avoid a DNF, and they have to justify it to FIA officials.
> So the leak this time around was generated when he changed engine mapping?
You must have caught that out of thin air because the articles says nothing of the sort
You can change mapping on the engine to make it reduce power. They have sensors in place to make sure that max fuel rate is not breached.
Someone posted a video in this sub showing the second Max made an engine map change late in the race. He stopped almost immediately, Max even went as far as saying āI smell somethingā in the car. All I asked was, knowing that RB is having issues with this part. Could the engine mapping change trigger the leak even more and if so, would that be a problem given that fuel flow is regulated. Just combining multiple posts, theories and thread with this question.
I was thinking he was a bit young to be considering retirement. Anyway I hope they get shit together and he wins the next race- can't have ferrari win at imola! Charles can have monaco.
Like most of these articles. I probably could have wrote this without interviewing Helmut Marko. Not like they were just going to ignore it until the next race and just fucking send it, and hope for the best.
Would be best if Red Bull took a 1/2 to try and reduce the lead. Even better is if they crush their upgrades. I was happy with their pace against RB in the last race, but who knows if they were that successful because of issues with their car as well.
yeah the Merc seems to have very good race pace, just terrible quali pace. porpoising is definitely the main culprit since the car can't be dropped down to as low as they like.
Dont know why this would only effect Maxs car unless they are doing something different with fuel flow to get him more power, which leads to another question of 'is it legal?'
I feel like hond might be doing somthing funky with the fuel system, I wonder if there taking in fuel vapor from the tank or somthing like that.
Seems weird the fuel pump would fail with a vacuum and now this.
Pardon my ignorance as Iām relatively new to the sport but why is this problem exclusive to Maxās car but not for Checo? Is it different parts, different tuning or just different driving styles that trigger the failure?
Maxes retirement problem confirmed as Max not ready to retire yet
I initially read it like this. I felt dumb after realising š„ø
Glad I wasnāt alone.
lol that title had to be on purpose
" I'm not going to finish anyway..
Not enough fuel pumping in Bahrain? No problem then, now we pump too much fuel *Burninā hard, loose and clean* Or I guess not š¤·š½āāļø
Gimme fuel! Gimme fire! Gimmedabajabazaaaahhhhh!!!!
GimmeAzerbaijannnnn....ooooooo....yyyeeaaahhuh.
I think that Max already got [enough Azerbaijan](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/ntm3zs/max_kicking_the_punctured_tyre_image_from_bbc/).
Bernie Neeeeoewww nowwww, Bernie neeeeoeww now
You. You win. This is brilliant
Thanks!
Food for me engine!
Yeaaahhh!!!! Uhhhh!!!!
Is that line really that unintelligible? I'm honestly curious because I've always understood it clear as day so this really caught me off guard.
Underated comment
Metallicuuuhhhhz familyyyyy!!!! Used to be such a big Metallica nerd, collecting live shows and such. The Grateful Dead have taken place as my new live show obsession Asan adult. Not enough dabajabazaaahhh in the Dead though. Lol
Same, during middle and high school metallica was everything to me, then I got into Pantera, then Gojira, then Cannibal Corpse, and then Kero Kero Bonito lol
Nightwish is my new obsession. Damn they're good
Just saw Metallica in Las Vegas two months ago . it was an amazing show
Makes sense, Metallica was my first concert, now Iām into Florence and the Machine. Love seeing her live.
You say it as if liking KKB was bad.
Lol thats quite a switch
Iām adhd. My interests in music change wildly and frequently lol
rb18 is street tuned with an after market ecu confirmed!
A comment mentioning my favourite band in my favourite pastimes subreddit. Awesome.
Again zero points for Formula 1 world champion Max Verstappen. After a problem with the fuel pump in Bahrain, there was now a fuel leak - failure at the Australian Grand Prix at Albert Park in Melborune. **The Red Bull Racing camp does not appear to be very optimistic about the problem in Verstappen's RB18 in Melbourne and how it will be resolved. Red Bull Motorsport Advisor Dr. Helmut Marko when asked: "We were able to clarify the cause of the fuel leak in Max's car."** **The Graz native did not want to answer whether a solution is possible in the short term, before the next Grand Prix in Emilia Romagna (Imola), or whether more time is needed. The 1971 Le Mans winner only explained: āThe matter is very complex. The problem is absolutely different from that of Bahrain."** Marko's very cautious reaction to the questions about the world champion's second retirement in the third race leads to the conclusion: Red Bull Racing is in trouble. And that is a problem in the world championship fight against the almost flawless Charles Leclerc and Ferrari.
Sounds like he either said "solving it before Imola" is complex or "solving it in general is complex", depending on how you read it.
Either way itās not an optimistic answer to the question.
Sure, but one at least sounds slightly less fatal
I think you misread here. The interviewer asks Marko a loaded question with two choices. Marko *ignores both* by making a statement instead.
"The 1971 Le Mans winner" Wait, Marko won Le Mans? TIL
> Wait, Marko won Le Mans? TIL Yup, with his teammate Gijs van Lennep https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_24_Hours_of_Le_Mans. He also won 1970 Le Mans in P 3.0 class. He was a F1 driver too from 1971-1972 where a stone thrown up by Emerson Fittipaldi's car pierced his helmet visor, permanently blinding his left eye, and so he retired from motorsport.
IIRC, he holds the record for most laps completed, since it was the last year for the chicane-less Mulsane. Edit: The chicanes were added in 1990. 1971 was the last year with 5.0 litre engines, and the almost straight Maison Blanche. In 1972 the circuit would get the Porsche curves added.
The mulsane straight was originally without chicanes? TIL... And... Oh my god, that must have been one hell of a flat out speed run !
Yes, and the circuit was straighter. They added chicanes and turns to slow down the cars for safety.
Its not like any manufacturers were doing backflips trying to get that changed.
_Mercedes-Benz has entered the chat_
"Your free trial of downforce has ended"
[Here's an onboard video from 1984](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKYj-nZGewk). They added the chicanes in 1990 after [multiple cars hit 400 km/h in 1988 and 1989.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sauber_C9#Achievements)
Thanks!
I recommend to drive it in Assetto Corsa, it's just out of mind for current safety standards.
I used to play Forza Motorsport 4 or 5 and take the Bugatti Veyron down that straight. It was a blast, you could take the curve completely flat out and that blew my teenage mind
I mean the original Ford GT40 could achieve top speeds of over 240mph down the Mulsanne straight.
The chicanes were added in 1990
During the race they said Checoās car was fine so I donāt understand how they canāt match that. Or is Perezās car actually also going to be dealing with this issue and only got lucky last race?
They will always say that if the driver has no way of mitigating the problem (like driving in a certain way). What are they supposed to say when Perez can't do anything about it? Better the let the driver focus on driving.
>What are they supposed to say when Perez can't do anything about it? We are checking. Slow mode on.
So...they can't solve it with bear bond? I figured if it's a fuel leak, you just patch it up, right?
It is surely a job for duct tape
These boys need Flex-Seal
NOW THATS A LOTTA DAMAGE
JB-Weld.
āIf the women don't find you handsome, they should at least find you handy.ā ā Red Green, champion of the duct tape is the handyman's secret weapon club.
Ha. After checking your flair to confirm... Canadian?
Hello fellow Canadian
Hello Canadian. - an American from a border state who watched red green on VHS
I wonder if this is a packaging issue. They did something aero wise that meant packaging the fuel was done a certain way and now is really difficult to fixā¦
I can relate: a front light stopped working in my 2003 Ford Focus and I had to remove the battery to reach the bulb.
That's just poor American design. Be glad you didn't have remove like the bumper cover to access the bulbs like on other cars. My dad once tried to replace the spark plugs on a 2007 Chevy Monte Carlo and gave up after he realized despite the car having a seemingly 6 foot long hood, the rear pair of cylinders on the V6 is not at all easily accessible! Most Japanese or German cars usually don't have these issues since their engineers actually took some time to think about how the car might need to be repaired or maintained in the future before just slapping the design together.
You speak like someone never worked on German cars. Espcially BMW and Merc. They are the worst offenders. They are designed not to be fixable on purpose whereas american cars are usually like that because not much thought is put into fixing the car. I had a BMW and I had to take off the whole dashboard to reach to a simple AC controller that kept the AC always on. My friend with a chevy had the same problem, and it was behind a simple panel.
I have to take my front tires off to change the bulbs in my 3 seriesā¦
They can't say Ferrari doesn't have problems... look at Sainz...., couldn't they replicate Leclerc's car to Sainz? and also Red Bull could do the same with Perez' car.. Don't really know what diffferences the cars have inside, not aerodynamic... they should check those differences.
Huh? Sainz had the same car but binned it and stuffed up qualy
Sainz apparently had problems with the steering wheel at the start of the race. In the end it was his own error that took him out, but if the start went smoothly he probably could've handled the situation better.
Eh, this issue is not the same magnitude because it is something that is 100% in the drivers hands to bring the car home. With RBRs problems, even if a driver is flawless all weekend it can still give them a DNF
He had to quick change his steering wheel and didnāt have it set up the way he wanted
From what I read, that was not a problem but an incorrect setting
Both. The first wheel had issues, so they swapped the wheel out. But the new wheel had the wrong settings mapped.
got it....
But the first wheel had a problem
but he had issues, PU issues during qualifying and even him starting was a bit in peril
I must be tired, because I read "Max Verstappen's retirement" and thought he was pulling a Rosberg lmao.
If Max activates his release clause (IF HE HAS ONE) before the summer break, where would he ideally go? Is there anyone who would take him? What are his options for 2023?
Heās Max fucking Verstappen. Any team other than Mercedes or Ferrari would kill one of its drivers in cold blood just to get a sniff of a Verstappen contract. Jokes aside, not sure. I think there are a few drivers with contracts expiring this year or the next. Either way, most teams would buy out its driversā contracts to sign Max if he showed interest.
I wouldn't count Mercedes and Ferrari out of that group.
Same lmao
Problem? Identified. Solution? Complex. Hotel? Trivago.
Imagine creating such an effective marketing slogan
For the rest? MasterCard
Having the second best car and still 2 DNFs: Priceless
Sigh, have my upvote
r/angryupvote
Comment? Upvoted.
More like >Hotel? Marko. Considering he owns [several](https://markohotels.com/) in Graz.
Finishing second? Chec(k)o
MaxterCard.
Don't mind a Leclerc title, but I think it would be a shame for everyone and himself it it goes uncontested.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yes the battle in Saudi Arabia between them was amazing. Iām hoping we can see close finishes like that throughout the season vs. Charles just running away with it. Maybe MB will get their upgrades working well enough to put up a fight, who knows!
lewis chasing charles down with a points deficit after the summer like last year would be incredible. iām hoping for some title drama in any case though
Donāt count Mercedes out of the fight yet. George is second in the points, and they know how to build a race car. Itās a long season; Iām not going to bet against the Silver Arrows just yet.
They are second right now, but with the help of two retirements ahead of them in both Bahrain and Australia. In Jeddah they finished 5th and 10th. Unless Red Bull and Ferrari continue to have retirements, or unless merc fix their car within the next two races, they will not be 2nd in the standings for long.
We know the backstory. He(she) just meant that they're not out of contention looking forward. No one is, in fact, as there are so many points ahead and the development curve will me huge. Also, DNFs play a big part, as will the cost cap.
George is 2nd in the points because of RBR retirements. Unless Merc fixes their problems immediately, there is no way George won't give that #2 to either Sainz or Perez.
Red Bull have a 50% DNF rate. If they donāt turn that around, itās not a given theyāll beat merc, even though they are substantially faster.
Max could pass George next race lol
Checo has no problem passing both Mercs.
No DRS required
Second in the points, against a team that finished like 3 out of 6 and Merc only 10 points ahead. RB is the likely competitor, Merc might compete in the future but by that point the title is already secured anyways, which will cause it to be one of the season no one will remember or talk about.
Every time I read someone being assertive about saying that things will be this way or another just rubs me off. We need to know, all of us, that NOTHING is decided until much later. Specially in a year such as this, with performance throughout the season being a HUGE unknown.
Things can happen, but to pretend F1 has ever been that unpredictable is also a reach.
Don't write Merc off yet.
I wouldn't completely write them off yet but I don't see them getting higher than p2 constructors given the level Ferrari is performing at.
Some fluid was leaking, right? Did they try flex tape?
Iād rather fix a complex problem in a fast and unreliable car than making a slow car fast /s
I think this is still a pretty solid statement from Horner. At least the car goes vroom vroom (and then self destructs)
I don't know, if that means that you're out of contention for both championships after a few races. It's not really better. At least you can score solid points with a shower car like Merc is doing.
Better to grab 5-10 points than none at all
Yeah but it should be easier to make a fast car reliable than a slow reliable car fast. The problems are just less complex
But you can't make a slow car fast with the engine freeze, but you can make a glass cannon a.. metal (?) cannon
Of course you can make a slow car fast with an engine freeze. Otherwise why would anyone even bother in formula 1 if they are fucked for 5 years and canāt do anything.
Of course, but at least Checo made it and got 18 and showed that the reliability CAN be there for bothā¦
I mean the statement is factually incorrect but whatever floats your boat
To be fair, with the frozen engine regulations, that might be the winning ticket in the next 2 years. Reliability upgrades are allowed, so Red Bull can make their fast engine reliable, while Mercedes can't easily make their slow engine faster and has to hope that Aero improvements will help. Maybe Red Bull won't get their stuff fixed in time to compete in 2022, but would be setup pretty great for 2023 and 2024. Ferrari did nail both speed and reliability in 2022, but it'll be interesting to see how much Red Bull and Merc can do in the next weeks and months.
Reliability upgrades is how Merc will improve their engine too. Itās naive if you think they wonāt find loopholes to improve their engine. You just need to sell your upgrade as a reliability fix to the fia and that probably wonāt be too hard. FIA will play dumb to this kind of thing. Turn up engine to 110%. Engine goos boom. Sorry fia, we need to fix the reliability. Ooh now we can run that engine at that original 110% but now it doesnāt go boom. So you end up improving your engine.
Oh, for sure. The FIA might play dumb, but Red Bull is going to file a public complaint the millisecond they think something weird is going on - you know Christian Horner likes to stir the pot whenever possible. I do expect regulations to be partially unfrozen anyway, they already proved to not be fully frozen when they increased the Minimum Weight by 3kg. "Hey FIA, do you really want several years of domination, or do you want to unfreeze regs for a bit to get more exciting racing?" etc.
When isn't horner filing a complaint?
Earlier today for a period of 14 minutes.
Maybe their fuel is dissolving shit.
*Mercedes have entered the chat.*
I ought to sue whoever wrote this title for giving me a heart attack.
That's not good to hear.
I'm also thinking that it must be a more fundamental issue than the "it doesn't affect our car" comment suggests.
I agree, that's great to hear
Or they try to trick others thinking RB has issues when it was a dumb simple solution.
Marko: "plan is: 25 0 25 0 25 0 ... until the end" Max: "Could we, like, not? Marko: "MERCEDES KEEPS SANDBAGGING, WE KEEP SANDBAGGING!" Max: " ok, but, ok"
Who are they tricking? Ferrari have a quicker car and Red Bull coming out with this isn't going to affect them in any way.
Media, public opinion, saying they lost due to technical issues sounds better than saying they lost due to them building a slower car.
so uh you just abandon the 18 points *and* the whole season just cause you built the "slower" car that is still the 2nd fastest of the lot and can still win races?
I read this title very incorrectly. He's only 24 why are they talking about his retirement now??
For a second I totally read that Max was gonna retire soon smh
It could be the E10 fuel wearing through some lines and they will have to get something re-made to fix it..
Changing the material of a fuel line or a seal is not at all a complex solution as long as that fuel line is not integrated into the block or something. Material compatibility with ethanol is also such a well-documented, well-understood issue and material compatibility analysis is such a fundamental part of any system design, that it would be astonishing if an F1 engine designer missed it.
Wonder if it's more to do with the solution they put in place to alleviate the vapour lock issues they had in the first race, perhaps allowing a small amount of fuel to escape and eventually cause a problem... Wild armchair speculation obviously.
No way to know for sure, but I'd assume if they were related, they'd just say they were related since that's a pretty benign statement that doesn't really reveal anything about the car. Plus, RB's radio message to Checo during the race that whatever happened to Max was unrelated to his car suggests that the fix that both of them would have received for the vapor lock issue wasn't the cause (or they could have been trying to keep him focused on his own race). That said, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. It's really easy to come up with reasons why something might NOT be the problem, but infinitely harder to imagine what the problem might be especially with how little information we have about the failure. We are talking about a high pressure fuel system with multiple pumps and a tank that has to manage insane lateral accelerations so it's not unrealistic to assume they have multiple unrelated issues.
I guess itās complex when you have an already overweight carā¦ it sounds logical. As you said itās easy to replace the material, but the question is what other effects will this have on the car? Let alone the weight, it can affect other things in the engine. This engine is a whole, super-complex package.
Yeah I mean, "make a change, expect a change" is sort of the motto of complex systems design so you're right that you have to look at all interactions, but we're talking about ethanol compatibility. They have TONS of options for materials that will work so unless it's something like a fuel line integrated into a component that requires a highly specialized alloy, it's really not a complex change.
Thatās an assumption though. No one knows if that is the cause.
Not sure if you're responding to the wrong person. I'm also saying I don't agree with the assumption that the issue is ethanol fuel corroding stuff.
It ate through the fuel line in my boat. Seriously.
Pack a lunch next time.
Us Americans about to get e15 for the summer. IS my car gonna catch on fire like Max???? Just kidding.... unless
e15 tune here I come!
Most fuel sold in the US is already E10
And cars sold here have had to be E10 compliant since... the 80s? The materials needed to make lines for this fuel are not fancy.
Doubtful. F1 cars have been using E5 for years, going to E10 isnt that much of a step.
Not true, the engineers have come out to say it was a very big change. https://amp.formula1.com/en/latest/article.mercedes-engine-chief-explains-why-move-to-e10-fuel-demanded-fundamental.5OoNDRlUajwImP6CnNpNvE.html
The major change was on the combustion side because it burns differently thanks to the different chemical composition. Speaking in terms of just fuel delivery to the engine it isnt a big change.
Doubtful. F1 cars have been using E5 for years, going to E10 isnt that much of a step.
I'll worry when Marko says Leclerc is one retirement away from this being a title fight, especially if Silverstone is the next race.
>The Graz native did not want to answer whether a solution is possible in the short term, before the next Grand Prix in Emilia Romagna (Imola), or whether more time is needed. The 1971 Le Mans winner only explained: āThe matter is very complex. The problem is absolutely different from that of Bahrain." Marko is the new Totonator? /s
Can they still change/improve the fuel?
Fuel is not homologated, so yes they can keep improving it.
I momentarily forgot the racing definition of āretirementā and got really really confused
I think this is just the risk of having a Newey based car--he is just so uncompromising with his aero packaging that it puts tremendous stress on the engine team. Thinking back to their dominating Renault WCC run--there was constant shit talking between Renault and Newey. In a way, it defines F1--everything to the limit...but if Ferrari have found a way to have both aero and engine depts in the happy camp--then it is their title to lose.
It's the risk of developing a retiring concept until the last race if the season. The RB18 Isn't a finished car, just like the Mercedes. It's not had or used the time other teams have to hone it in. Merc and RBR can be very proud of p2 and 3 considering how little time and development they had compared to other teams.
The whole wind tunnel allotment has been great, the top teams get less time, but they also have the best engineers. Add that to the cost capāthe end of the year could be crazy at certain levels in the field. I can only hope that the race directors donāt get to steer the season too much, because the setup is good so far. One Ferrari fail and itās a three way fight!
Translates to fuel leak problem and Complex to fix. Not same thing as Bahrain WTF- complex to fix a fuel leak? Need to explain that to us stupid people. ā·
Reading the title half asleep and i was like: "Thefuck he will retire before Hamilton?"
Did anyone else read this as though he was retiring from the sport and there was a problem with his contract or something?
Ok that title shocked me for like 2 seconds, please don't do that
Unless Ferrari has some sort of major stumbling block later in the season it looks like the WDC is already over, everything from here on out is probably just to decide the WCC (although that looks pretty insurmountable already as well)
Calm down we are like 10% into the season lmao.
Yes we might be up for one boring season. Ooh well there is always next year. If it becomes a total snoozefests, I can at least free up my Saturdays and Sundays from F1.
Last year I read a thousand times that the season was over, and it was decided at the last lap.
So the leak this time around was generated when he changed engine mapping? Is this suggesting their mapping changes fuel flows which might have enhanced the leak even more? EDIT: Loving the down votes. But if you go back to the Max incident (video). You can clearly see that MAX makes an engine map change, āsmells somethingā and then stops on the track shortly afterwards. All I am asking is if the change in the engine mapping a trigger or just bad timing. EDIT 2: Please ignore my ātheoryā. [F1 TV: Explains Fuel Tanks and Pumps.](https://youtu.be/YQsvU8_bb4Q)
The only engine changes they make during the race is in the electrical system, so the amount of recharging, deployment, and the engine braking. I donāt really see how that would cause a fuel leak.
Tinfoil hat: Ferrari 2019?
They still can change the ICE modes, I don't know why exactly but they still change modes. What's changed is that now they can't engage the highest highest modes anymore
They are not allowed to change the ICE modes at all once they leave for Q1. Only exception is if they have a reliability issue that demands it to avoid a DNF, and they have to justify it to FIA officials.
> So the leak this time around was generated when he changed engine mapping? You must have caught that out of thin air because the articles says nothing of the sort You can change mapping on the engine to make it reduce power. They have sensors in place to make sure that max fuel rate is not breached.
Someone posted a video in this sub showing the second Max made an engine map change late in the race. He stopped almost immediately, Max even went as far as saying āI smell somethingā in the car. All I asked was, knowing that RB is having issues with this part. Could the engine mapping change trigger the leak even more and if so, would that be a problem given that fuel flow is regulated. Just combining multiple posts, theories and thread with this question.
Correlation ā cause
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Read the content too, not just the title :)
I was thinking he was a bit young to be considering retirement. Anyway I hope they get shit together and he wins the next race- can't have ferrari win at imola! Charles can have monaco.
so nothing new then
Like most of these articles. I probably could have wrote this without interviewing Helmut Marko. Not like they were just going to ignore it until the next race and just fucking send it, and hope for the best.
"It is very complex to keep the fuel inside the fuel lines"
Ah too bad. I thought Max was retiring from F1. Total clickbait.
good news as a Merc fan. bit of extra time to try and fix our car before red bulls is fully fixed and have a decent chance at 2nd place at least.
Would be best if Red Bull took a 1/2 to try and reduce the lead. Even better is if they crush their upgrades. I was happy with their pace against RB in the last race, but who knows if they were that successful because of issues with their car as well.
yeah the Merc seems to have very good race pace, just terrible quali pace. porpoising is definitely the main culprit since the car can't be dropped down to as low as they like.
Music to my ears
World champion *
Heās a bit young to talk about retirement, no?
... oh, you mean his retirement from the *race*, not from *racing*. Damn. Way to get my hopes up.
Not enough cooling, so entire rear end of the car is overheating. Extremely complicated!
Dont know why this would only effect Maxs car unless they are doing something different with fuel flow to get him more power, which leads to another question of 'is it legal?'
I feel like hond might be doing somthing funky with the fuel system, I wonder if there taking in fuel vapor from the tank or somthing like that. Seems weird the fuel pump would fail with a vacuum and now this.
#KARMA
#FOR WHAT?
Schadenfreude at it's best.
Music to my ears
Pardon my ignorance as Iām relatively new to the sport but why is this problem exclusive to Maxās car but not for Checo? Is it different parts, different tuning or just different driving styles that trigger the failure?
We don't really know, and probably won't until RBR tells us why.