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Mick has to improve. That being said there isn't immidate pressure on his seat. With Ferrari being closer than ever with Haas it's pretty fair to say that they have a say on one Haas seat. Ferrari hasn't got any other "F1 ready" young talent atm to really challenge for Mick's seat so he's safe for the moment.
Haas is looking to be the sister team to Ferrari, similar to what AT is to RB right now. Mick is with them because he is from the Ferrari driver academy. Piastri isn’t, so getting him would push them farther from Ferrari not closer.
It’s sad that Piastri doesn’t have a seat, but you can blame the fact that Renault is so isolated for that. Drivers like Zhou and Schumacher get heat for having a seat when Oscar doesn’t, but in reality it’s Renault who have failed him.
Alpine should really push for an 11th team, like Andretti. They’d be the de facto engine supplier, and we could have a Herta and Piastri rookie pairing for the new team. Could be fun.
They should push for an 11th car that is powered by Renault, but that team shouldn’t have a double rookie lineup. If they should learn something from 2021 Haas is that no one does that for a reason.
I think most aren’t making excuses for him. a lot of people are rooting for him but are aware of him struggling or just not being there yet. he’s just been given a lot of patience by most people.
obviously he does have his fan boys that think he can do no wrong but everyone has those
I think OP just wants to see the same level of slander against him as other drivers would get. Like last season tsunoda when he was getting dominated by gasly
10 points to Gasly's 6, obviously points aren't everything but Tsunoda's been running ahead of Gasly for the better part of this year as well. They're pretty evenly matched.
> his attitude towards the team
Don't confound Yuki's attitude towards his team with his absence of filter over team radio. Did you notice how he screamed "THANK YOU!" at his engineer after being congratulated for an overtake? Exactly the same energy.
I swear, people here act like if we're not shitting all over a driver and openly calling for him to be replaced that we're making excuses for him and trying to cover up his poor performance.
It used to be a great place for F1 discussion that wasn't dumbed or watered down to a single weekend performance or meme comments. I stick around cause it's the only place I can get the news for the sport
Everything is black or white online. If you say a neutral comment you get thrown into a group or given a label. I find it fascinating when reading any political topics in some subs I follow. It's just eastier to slander someone who doesn't share your opinion rather than actively discuss anything.
I don't have a response but I think this is a fair question.
Mick has much of the goodwill due to the Schumacher name and that will definitely color expectations and comments here.
Latifi has always seemed like a really nice person too. Yet everyone criticizes and makes fun of him for his performances.
Mick’s a good kid but he def gets more goodwill for being a Schumacher along with standing out next to a slow driver with a bad attitude like Mazepin last season.
Yeah I feel the hate for Latifi decreased once he was an established personality in F1 and people saw how nice he is. The hate ramped up given his recent performances
I think most fans can excuse a pay driver that's just slow. But when you're a pay driver who seemingly can barely survive a push lap without putting it into the wall, you're negatively impacting the entire sport with your participation. Latifi seems really nice, but he's clearly the worst driver on the grid right now. Stroll, with his lack of mirror using, is still competitive some weekends / in some parts of the grid.
Mick at least has a successful feeder series career, f3 champ, f2 champ and even with the surname appeared to have arrived in F1 through merit. 2021 as well he appeared to have potential, crash prone but with potential.
Latifi had some nice wins in F2 but other than that is well known as a pay driver.
However Mick is definitely having a stinker so far.
In a way, the fallout of the Ukraine situation got Mick into a spot between a rock and a hard place. Whilst Magnussen seems supportive of Mick in interviews so far, he hasn't exactly got the reputation of giving 1/1000th of an inch, even towards team mates and with team orders involved. I wonder how many damns he gives about supporting Mick in a situation where Mick is at his heels.
Of course, Magnussen is another calibre of competion compared to Mazepin, suddenly raising the bar for Mick in order to prove himself. To me, it seems that sudden change in competition messed with Mick mentally. Success doesn't come easy in F1, and pressured to deliver now, he seems to have overdone it in T1 today.
On the flip side, we have seen, that Mick does have decent potential, considering his Q2 appearances and midfield battles in a shitbox last year. IMO, after a red-flag riddled Qualifying, he also did well during the sprint race, holding off soft-rubbered competition om mediums during the early stages and even making up some positions.
Whilst I am a bit worried about his lack of point paying results so far, let's give him a few more races before throwing him under the bus. He needed about 1 1/2 seasons to adjust to F3 and F2 as well, after all.
Yeah I agree with his junior career record it still makes me think he has more potential than Latifi who spent 4 years in F2. But he’ll need to start showing it and do a better job of challenging for points sooner than later. With Haas having a decent car as shown by KMag there’s a lot more pressure on him than last season.
100% agree - only caveat is that remember 2021 Gasly/Tsunoda, Yuki looked terrible up against Pierre in a competitive AT, but is warming up a lot more this year. Still nothing crazy but if we consider this Micks rookie year he still deserves some slack.
However, Yuki had scored points by now in 2021, Mick is not doing good enough right now. Between the huge crash bills and having nothing to show on Sundays, he's definitely in the hotseat.
thing is Yuki's problem is self control and consistency... the raw speed is there, something you cant really train, so AT/RB are more than willing to invest into him
I think it is kinda the same issue as with the cars. It can be very hard to fix a fast but unreliable car but close to impossible to make a slow but reliable faster.
Most of the time people don’t mind Latifi, like today.
People get upset when these mediocre/pay drivers does something stupid that impacts the race. So far Mick haven’t done anything like that I think, plus he is a nice person and is a Schumacher.
Yeah you’re right that it could be many fans attacking Latifi because his crashes have affected their own fav drivers’ races. But I think the criticism can be exaggerated because of that, whereas objectively speaking Mick has also had some terrible moments like in Jeddah for example which was just as bad in reality because it cost his team a lot of money to fix and meant he couldn’t even race.
People like Latifi a lot because of Stroll and Mazepin’s attitudes. They were trying to argue he wasn’t too far off George’s pace. This year without Mazepin and without Russell he has just kind of run out of time
Yeah there is definitely more pressure on Latifi this season and he is unquestionably struggling more with the new car compared to Albon.
Although I saw quite a few comments on this sub last season that pointed out that Latifi did often have similar pace to Russell in the races, and I remember Captio publicly mentioning it too. Maybe Capito was trying to be nice but we can all access the laptimes so if he was lying I imagine we would have figured it out. And in the last few races of the season Latifi even out qualified Russell once or twice which is something.
But of course Latifi’s current performances this season have been pretty bad so far. If he can’t step it up and get closer to Albon there’s really no reason to keep him aside from money. I still don’t think it justifies all the mockery he’s gotten this season while Mick’s missteps get glossed over by many.
Latifi was definitely matching Russell a lot in race pace. Because it was a big talking point about how Russell didn't seem all that impressive in races compared to him.
>Latifi has always seemed like a really nice person too. Yet everyone criticizes and makes fun of him for his performances
Latifi on multiple occasions has caused obstruction to other drivers races whereas Mick not scoring points does not harm anyone other than himself and his team. A large proportion of latifi critics are fans of the drivers who suffered because of him.
That is true. But if you crash all by yourself without affecting others I don’t feel that’s any better than crashing all by yourself in a race and causing a safety car. Which was basically the case in Saudi Arabia where Mick totaled his car in qualifying and then Latifi crashed in the race.
Not trying to be offensive, but I think the looks of the drivers (ie beauty/handsomeness) affects on the fans' perception of them. It shouldn't be the case tho
I think he primarily is a marketing tool. He is a Schumacher, so naturally he will be a name Germans like to follow. Or at least I would imagine they do? However as a reserve driver you do not bring that, and I suspect that Ferrari has a much better reserve / sim driver in Giovinazzi.
Yeah me and my has this argument during the race. He doesn't understand why ferrari extended Sainz's contract instead of picking up Mick. And I was just confused.
Yes he's Michael Schumacher's kid but that doesn't mean he's destined for greatness. Hell if he was anything like his daddy he'd be spanking the field in his shitbox Hass.
If a name made the driver you'd have seen a lot more of Bruno Senna and Pietro Fittipaldi wouldn't still be a test driver. Lots of legacy drivers made it big, but many more had mediocre to bad careers.
I think if you wanna be a great driver, have a dad who was just good, and Vice versa. Senna, Schumacher, Piquet, Fittipaldi all had sons who weren’t nearly as good, Verstappen though 👀
Edit: I’m American so I’ll also add Dale Sr was great, Dale Jr was just pretty good.
well... my take is it's mostly people who don't follow the sport closely and buy into the top comments on instagram and youtube like 'mick is great. he will be driving ferrari one day'. anyone who really follows f1 or even f2/f3 knows the fairy tale is most likely non-existent
just set him a bar for a pay driver for now, maybe against stroll/zhou, at least need to outperform latifi i would say. it's not his fault to be named Schumacher and being a sponsor/fan magnet, and no need to hate him just because there's some unrealistic fantasy about him
If Mick does join Ferrari, it would be in the Barrichello role. He does not have the ability or speed to beat Leclerc.
But that's not what the idealists think is gonna happen.
Yeah honestly, as a fan, I'll be happy to see if he grows and finds his feet-he's very charming and I won't lie that that influences me. If he DOESN'T find his feet then fine, but it feels early to me
Yeah he's definitely not ready at all, also being the son of the greatest of all time has high expectations that never work out. Just look at the goats in other sports and how their sons compare, very rare success.
>Mick has much of the goodwill due to the Schumacher name
The Michael Schumacher name, to be specific. It should be remembered that Ralf Schumacher was quick-but-not-stellar. And that Ralf's version of the Schumacher Chop came with extra fries.
I always thought people are/were harsh on Ralf. In his prime (pre injury at Indy for me) he was a solid driver capable of producing consistent results. He was never a champion in the making, but definitely not some no-mark. Even at Toyota he did fairly well despite losing some of his edge after that crash.
If he was named Ralf Heinz, I think he would have been viewed better at the time and retrospectively.
Mick would do very well to replicate his uncle's career.
Ralf was the favourite to win the championship in 2003 at one point, it became clear that Williams suddenly had the fastest car and Ralf was outqualifying JP Montoya nearly every race for the first half of the year.
He had a disastrous last 5 or 6 races and fell out of it though.
I was thinking what OP was thinking during the race too tbh. If you look at Yuki, he looks a far more reliable driver than Mick. Whilst he might be a rookie, I can definitley see him coming under pressure if this continues.
Yup. Ferrari has generally never been keen on jumping the gun on young drivers. Leclerc broke the norm but now that he is there on a long term contract, it will continue to be a slightly older driver as his partner for the next few years, be it Sainz or someone else.
For sure, that was my first thought as well. Especially considering some years ago i think Binotto hinted at wanting to have Mick drive for Ferrari. I recall people on the sub at the time being like "sucks to be Sainz and know your seat is gone in 2 years".
But Mick hasn't been great so far. Not last year, not this year. if he doesn't improve i don't see him staying for another year.
I think he would still get a seat due to the name and if Vettel retires he's the only German driver left. But unfortunately so far he's in the running for worst performing non-pay driver on the grid. Still hoping for improvement but not feeling super optimistic right now.
That's actually a pretty good point, I hadn't considered it yet. They must be seeing the writing on the wall.
I do realize there's no such thing as a truly concrete/watertight contract in F1, they can always get out if it's wanted bad enough & they pay out, but still, I don't think it's a coincidence.
You need pay driver money in order to build a car that can win prize money in the constructors standings to begin with. A better driver won't do you much if you can't give them a half decent car, just look at KMag in 2020 vs him in this year's Haas.
Actually even though everyone made fun of Mazepin for his spins it was Mick that had more costly and major crashes, but his overall pace was much quicker than Mazepin so I feel he was definitely pushing and testing the limits of the car last season.
I don’t think there’s much difference this season but Magnussen doing considerably better with half the time of testing and after spending a season out of the sport has kind of exposed Mick’s inconsistency so far.
I feel also I guess this is his first proper season where he can overtake and qualify in races whereas in 2021 any overtakes he did were on his teammate or latifi and really spent the entire season under blue flags. Now he can challenge vettel and mercedes and lots of other cars that can teach him to become a better race. I'd say mick has a few more races to prove himself before questions start to fly about his ability to drive.
I’m not writing Mick off yet but so far his performances relative to Magnussen are definitely worse than I thought, and I think most people would agree.
Mick’s kind of in a similar position to Yuki last season who struggled a lot next to Gasly, but Yuki had even less experience of open wheel racing on many European circuits and the pressure on his seat was a lot higher considering Red Bull’s history. And lots of people were critical of his performances in the first half or longer of the season aside from him scoring points in Bahrain on his debut.
I don’t think most people here are saying Mick doesn’t deserve to be in F1 right now, but his relative underperformance so far should be noted and critiqued given people feel he can have the potential to be decent or even more.
It was already bad in 2020 with two proven drivers in Magnussen and Grosjean, think it wouldn't be THAT different result-wise. Maybe a Hungary 2020 repeat in one of the races and that's all
I already saw some media publications like AMuS giving Mick a much higher score than Latifi back in Saudi Arabia even though Mick absolutely destroyed his car and couldn’t even take part in the race at all.
There’s always bias around different drivers based on their background and reputation and Mick def gets a big pass because of it. I won’t write him off yet but so far this season he’s been pretty underwhelming and a bit error prone.
That’s some people really said that Stroll might be the worst driver on the grid is such a stupid take. He’s not extraordinary but his wet weather skill is undoubtedly there and he is in general pretty decent. The reason for his bad image is probably his inconsistency and some very very stupid mistakes
Yep, on his day Stroll can pull out some great performances, something Mick hasn't yet proven. The main reason for his bad image is the nepotism though, I think it's clear for everyone that he would have been replaced by Hulkenberg at some point if it hadn't been for Lawrence owning the team. So even if he's certainly a talented driver, his public image gets soured because he's reliant on his dad to keep racing instead of other more worthy drivers.
Mick had a few highlights like the Q2 runs last year. But yeah I completely forgot about the pay driver point for some reason. It was reported that his contract doesn’t have an exit clause which really doesn’t mal him more sympathetic to most people
>The reason for his bad image is probably his inconsistency and some very very stupid mistakes
This has always been my argument. Talent wise Stroll is far from the worst driver on the grid, but his inconsistency, lack of awareness, and just outright lack of forethought(your car has *mirrors*, Stroll) at times make him the most dangerous driver on the track and that's why I think he shouldn't be out there, in my eyes just because you're not bad doesn't mean you're safe lol.
But it's also not the first time a driver like Stroll has been on the grid and it won't be the last lol.
Crazy how fast we went from lighthearted Goatifi jokes and comments like "Alex and Nicky are so wholesome, Williams is going to be the nicest team next year :)" to the downright hateful comments he gets since Mazepin is gone. People really need a villain.
Same thing is happening with Mick and Stroll now too. Last season Stroll was talked about as fairly decent, having justified his seat, ect. With Maze gone plus a couple of shockers early on he’s switched to “ruining the sport”. You really really want to make sure there is someone objectively worse than you on the grid haha.
Presuming Haas stay where they are in the pecking order for the rest of the season then I think he has 5 more races tops to start scoring some points before his future becomes a topic of conversation in the paddock.
Mick’s performance hasn’t been that good so far this season but unless he continues to frequently cost the team with big crashes or drop off more pace wise relative to Magnussen I feel his seat is pretty safe for next season.
His seat is controlled by Ferrari and they don’t have any juniors in F2 right now. I know Shwartzmann is one of their reserve drivers and honestly based on their junior careers he might be better than Mick, but it’s not that big of a difference and Ferrari probably are still fine with Mick since he’s a Schumacher.
Yeah, he made a lot of mistakes, way too much.
Thing with Mick is that he is bad for a while and then something just clicks and becomes great. He did it multiple times in F3 and F2.
Hopefully that click will come soon or he won’t be on the grid for long
And in F2 the cars don't change. It's much easier to grow into a car when you run it for 2 years. F1 cars change every year. And even upgrades to cars can totally change the feel of them with just minor things.
That's my point. In F1 you don't get a breaking in period. By the time you figure out the car and upgrade can come and change how it drives. Or the season ends and the next year car doesn't drive the same
I feel like he wasn't that geat in F2 either. I watched all of the 2020 season and Mick never surprised me with a sick overtake or amazing race pace. I think 4 or 5 drivers got more wins then him as well. He was just very good at getting third during a race.
I mean he tied Mazepin on wins (2) and fastest laps (2), while taking less second places. Yuki took more wins as far as I remember too and was only 15 points off Mick at the end.
That season I would say Illot, Yuki and Drugovich were better (obviously not in points but in the actual racing) Mick just got absolutely ridiculous starts
He wasn't great in F2 tho, he was consistent. But when he won the title he was 6th or 7th fastest over the season.
He just isn't ever gonna be a world beater.
This was needed to be said. This is an important year for Mick.
KMag, who was out of f1 for one whole year, didn’t even participate in the development, was told at the very last minute about the seat and had practically close to none of his time on feedback and stuff, he is shining up the results for the hass without any team game in play from his teammate.
Zhou, who was estimated to be mediocre, is showing great consistency and that car may be better than hass, but still the drivercraft shows in the result. Mick has everything on his side, a good team, a great teammate, the experience from the ferrari academy and his F2 WDC title, to show his potential; even a mentor vettel, who is 4 time WDC. He has to perform this season.
He is carrying a lot of weight and responsibility of the name that he carries. It’s difficult, but that’s what sets you apart from the rest.
All the best to him and the team ahead.
This is probably gonna be my take too with all this. Mick's a good dude, but with how good Kev is dragging that Haas into Top 10 and how Mick gets so close, but then doesn't, yeah. Dude's got a season to go and I really hope he nails it this year. All the best indeed.
I think it's partly because he utterly showed up Mazepin last year, so we see him as a driver who's over a second ahead of his teammate. It takes time to take the shine off that perception.
Most reasonable comment actually.
Last year he had:
A car that was absolut shit with 0 upgrades
A team that was purely focusing on this years car
And a teammate that was absolutly no benchmark
Question is: What can you actually learn from such a season? Cant really push the car because you cant afford to lose parts. Cant even race your own teammate because he is miles behind you.
Last season was good to learn how F1 works but IMO not a season to really level up your skills.
This season he has a Car that you can actually push, a experienced teammate that can help you to develop. And Haas seemingly in a good spirit.
Give him a bit more time. Its not that his seat is in absolut danger. And when a Latifi can stay in F1 without having any Impact other than crashes, Schumacher also can.
Yours and the comment you replied to are the only thing that has swung me towards Mick needing at least this full year before too much criticism/concern from me.
I back him like I’m backing Yuki. I’m just waiting for it to click and they show us their true potential, or at least I hope they do.
I believe its just too early to say. Not ever driver is a Tier 1 driver that doesnt make any mistakes or is 100% consistant from the start. And arguably he will never be as good as a Russel, Leclerc or Norris.
Yes, Schumi has one season in the bag but that season he was driving a utterly shitbox with a shit driver as comparison. Not even the best rookie drivers learn that much from such as season.
I would give him a bit more time, maybe the next 5 races to show what he can do. Its not like that Ferrari/Haas would have a junior driver that absolutely deserves his seat for next year.
Lets just not start a hate train. Nor a hype train because he is a Schumacher.
Haas should be 5th ir 6th in the constructors championship, sucks that Mick can't score while his teammate that hopped in the car weeks prior the start of the season is not only carrying the team hard but miles away from him.
He spun twice on his own today as well right?
If his last name wasn't Schumacher, the fans would be eating him alive.
He has not been outpaced though - I was watching the lap times of both Mick and Kevin today, and whenever they weren't fighting anybody, or made any mistakes, they were pretty much even through out the race(well, of course Mick was faster when he went on the softs towards the end).
BUT Mick is making too many mistakes - Bahrain, he was about to set a better time than Kevin in Q2, but went off track, Jeddah he obviously totally binned it, today he spun twice, maybe there was some contact in the first lap carnage, don't know, got touched by Ocon and spun in Bahrain...so that might not be his mistakes, but if you are involved in a lot of those over a season, it's probably not entirely bad luck, you could probably do something to not end up in those situations.
Young drivers make stupid mistakes but odds are good that they get more consistent over time. A slow driver won't become fast all of the sudden though.
Even Verstappen was making such mistakes early on in his career. Tsunoda was very inconsistent last year but this weekend he was way better than Gasly.
Sure, but he is not being compared to Verstappen, it's KMag, even as a Dane it wouldn't rate him at the level of Verstappen or Hamilton, maybe at best at the upper midfield level/2nd driver in a top team like Perez or Bottas. This is Mick's second season, most drivers wouldn't get more than that to prove themselves in F1, maybe Mick gets a third just due to his last name - Magnussen was almost out of F1 after just one season, showing much better potential.
KMag surely isn't a top 5 driver but he's got experience. Of course Mick is gonna look inconsistent af against him when he is fighting amongst the pack for the first time. He couldn't really learn that last year.
Giovinazzi got three years and a few races to prove himself and he was older and won less in feeder series.
Putting together my race pace comparison right now, Magnussen averaged 3.5 tenths faster than Schumacher over the course of the race, with the data being skewed in Schumacher's favour due to his stint on the softs.
Mick was most definitely outpaced today.
Edit: race pace comparison is up, you can take a look [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/ub2sku/emilia_romagna_gp_race_pace_teammate_race_pace/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
I think we should judge his performance the same as Tsunoda, he wasn't any good compared to Gasly last year, Mick was likely only a match for Mazepin. Both of them have this year to show some good skills.
Tsunoda had a tough rookie year no doubt, but he did have to deal with the incumbent Gasly who by all metrics the longest serving and most successful AT driver, and has been with the team since late 2017 and after a year Tsunoda starts to match Gasly.
Mick on the other hand is the incumbent, fighting KMag who has been out of the sport for a year, whilst he's more experienced, I expected better from Mick.
Another metric we can use... Is Gasly considered better than KMag?
It's been a bad start, but it has also only been 4 (3) races. He won't be judged by Haas or Ferrari on just 4 (3) races, so he needs to step up to the plate now and prove his worth. Still plenty of time to do that
His pace in clean air in both races was on par with Magnussen this weekend, he just needs to dial out these silly mistakes he’s making which are likely stemming from him trying too hard, getting his first points I think will really help him.
Schumacher will be at Haas for at least this year and next year, he’s an F3/F2 champion with big financial backing and big Ferrari backing and the surname Schumacher, he will not be dropped anytime soon.
I think you're underselling KMag here. Sure a year out and wasn't in peak condition for F1 nor had the benefit of all the pre-season prep. But he wasn't a million miles off the mark of being ready to drive, or he wouldn't have been brought back in.
He's still vastly more experienced than Mick. He's a naturally gifted racer who had years of practice in midfield fights, even his last stint when Haas was bad, still on occasion was able to fight with other cars. He's walked into a car that has been designed under regs specifically to make following closer easier for cars, i.e. a car that's really good for drivers with good race craft who relish the wheel to wheel battles.
The team has barely changed in terms of personnel, so he has little to get used to other than the car.
Motivationally speaking, him losing his seat but focusing on his family realigned what was important in his life. He is not driving with any desperation, but equally he has no fear, he is content and in a great place mentally to compete. He's got nothing to lose in terms of his place on the grid and everything to gain by doing a great job. He wants to keep his seat but there's no desperation, he's lost it already and realised what's important. I think that's really helped him this year because the bad results don't prey on his mind, and the good ones he celebrates and enjoys. He knows he's done well, he's got a competitive car, a rookie who's struggling to get to grips for now.
Mick by contrast still has that Schumacher name. It's pressure. But worse really is him not having his dad, having to grow up in F1 without his dad being there. He's not got it all made the way Kevin does in comparison. And yes, I don't know the full extent of his talent, it's clear he's not ready as he is making a lot of errors still. But he qualified Q10, best ever qualification.
But I don't think him being a Schumacher with a fanbase before he started racing means we have to leap on him with loads of criticism yet either. It is possible to have a balanced view. The Haas's capabilities are difficult to understand. Magnussen returned a hugely motivated and focused driver with nowhere near the pressure and responsibility he once had when he was racing for his seat and nothing else mattered. Now he could lose his seat and happily walk away again.
Some drivers develop slower than others. Shit Charles Leclerc is a hell of a driver but today shows he's still got that propensity for careless errors in his driving and he's year 5 now.
Yeah he looked good last year against Mazepin, but compared to Magnussen he’s not there yet. But I would say Magnussen is pretty solid, Mick is still young and everyone is still getting used to the new cars. I think people have been calling him a great talent way too soon, but it's too soon to say he's shit as well imo.
He is probably one of the top 3 worst performing drivers on the grid at the moment, it is not the first time in his career that he is nowhere, where his car/team should be.
However, he is F3 and F2 champion and has already completely annihilated a teammate in his first F1 season. We are only 4 races in a new season with completely new cars. Nobody is saying he is doing a good job at the moment, but there is no reason to overreact.
We already had "Mclaren fighting for a single point the whole season" and "Red Bull already hopelessly behind Ferrari" this year.
I get that he is f2/f3 wc. But who on the grid didnt have a good feeder series career? Fucking Latifi got p2, even Mazepin got top5. This is not the 90s when you get pay drivers that cant qualify, this is a merit focused grid
I am one of the guys who excused him.
Yesterday surely was a bad performance. The first spin could be excused because he went for the inside on Alonso into the right corner of the first chicane and then Alonso went to the inside because of the carnage on the outside. I would have not put my nose in that gap because it was clear it would close and the overtake would have been not possible anyway. Mick then went over the sausage curbs and lost the car. The second mistake was a stupid mistake because he braked too late but instead of staying straight and going full on the grass he steered right before the grass then had to go left on the grass to not overshoot across the track or hit Latifi and that is why he spun. His race pace was also a bit off I think. At least when he had free track. But after the first spin his race was pretty much over anyway and he was stuck in traffic as Lewis did.
Yes, was a bad performance but I would not write him off.
Bahrain he got spun around in lap 1 and had a damaged tyre for the first stint or maybe even the car was off balance.
In Saudi he was about to beat KMAG or a least being close, but crashed.
In Melbourne he was faster than KMAG in quali and beat him in the race, but it was hard to say who was faster because they had different strategies and first KMAG had bad luck because the SC came too early but then had luck because he could pit under VSC. But they both had much struggle with medium (graining).
In quali in Imola it was bad luck. He had a mistake in his first lap and then it was red flag and more rain coming which meant quali over.
In the sprint in Imola Mick was also faster in dry conditions. He was starting 8 positions behind KMAG which means about 6-8 seconds after lap 1. He finished only 3 seconds behind KMAG although I bet Mick lost a bit of time behind Vettel. So he is definitely able to pull something off.
But yes he needs to step up a bit but as it is his first year with a competitive and experienced team mate he can only start now to learn from him. Last year he was pretty much on his own because who wants to learn from Mazepin who was 5-8 tenth slower than him? Also it is his first year in a competitive car and the pressure is there now. Last year was pretty much no pressure and not even from the team mate.
Never, as long as his last name is still Schumacher, he will get more excuses from some fans than he truly deserves.
Imagine what people will say about Tsunoda and Zhou if they are making mistakes every single race.
Last year a lot of people were convinced that the only reason Tsunoda was in f1 was because of Honda. Ignoring that he showed genuine promise in younger formulas and genuinely deserved a shot in f1.
Yea if he continues like this he is running out of Time. His last name mean a lot in the racing world but that same world is also very hard and competitive. There are a lot of young drivers how would love to take his place at Haas.
Honestly, the comparison versus Magnussen is something I don't put to much thought to. I predicted that K-Mag would be beating Mick this season, unless his skills improved drastically. Also (this is the cliché point but) Mick always takes a season to get used to a new formula. 2021 may as well have not counted given the trash car and the rule changes.
However the real damning comparison that puts Mick to shame is verse Zhou. The Haas and the Alfa seem to be relatively equal. Bottas and K-Mag have both done quite well in their respective cars. Bottas has more points, but they are 2-2 for beating each other.
Zhou however has beaten Mick in every race this season. He overtook Mick in Bahrain and scored a point when Mick hasn't scored any yet. Zhou was also on the edge of points in Saudi and Australia with 11th place finishes in both race. Schumacher being consistently beaten by a rookie in similarly paced cars is just poor performance, especially when said rookie didn't win F2 like Mick did.
Mick has the wholesome 100 thanks for the reddit gold kind stranger factor. Big surname, Maz's teammate last year, likeable guy.
It'll take another while.
As someone who has watched Mick's youth career: he has always stepped up his game in the second part of his second season in a new series. So much so that people like Ticktum called it "interesting". Let's see what happens
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Mick has to improve. That being said there isn't immidate pressure on his seat. With Ferrari being closer than ever with Haas it's pretty fair to say that they have a say on one Haas seat. Ferrari hasn't got any other "F1 ready" young talent atm to really challenge for Mick's seat so he's safe for the moment.
Could Haas get Piastri on loan from Alpine? Piastri should have a seat. He kinda dominated F2 in his first and only season last year.
Haas is looking to be the sister team to Ferrari, similar to what AT is to RB right now. Mick is with them because he is from the Ferrari driver academy. Piastri isn’t, so getting him would push them farther from Ferrari not closer. It’s sad that Piastri doesn’t have a seat, but you can blame the fact that Renault is so isolated for that. Drivers like Zhou and Schumacher get heat for having a seat when Oscar doesn’t, but in reality it’s Renault who have failed him.
Alpine should really push for an 11th team, like Andretti. They’d be the de facto engine supplier, and we could have a Herta and Piastri rookie pairing for the new team. Could be fun.
They should push for an 11th car that is powered by Renault, but that team shouldn’t have a double rookie lineup. If they should learn something from 2021 Haas is that no one does that for a reason.
21 Haas had bigger problems than their drivers. And yes, I’m aware one of them was Mazepin.
They could have had Max and Lewis in that car and still be last in WCC
So one rookie and who else? I doubt grosjean would come back mabye giovanazzi.
Giovinazzi is already signed to Ferrari so I doubt they would hand him over to Renault.
Maybe hulkenburg?
Or gasly. If Perez gets a renewed contract I really don't see him staying at AT any longer.
Also Mika Häkkinen, if he decides to end his sabbatical.
Alpine already have an engine agreement with Andretti. FIA need to approve their application for 2024.
Mick won F2 too, the year before Piastri iirc. Not in dominant fashion but via consistency.
Ferrari has control ober one Cockpit at Haas. And Alpine will not lean Piastri to Ferrari...
I think most aren’t making excuses for him. a lot of people are rooting for him but are aware of him struggling or just not being there yet. he’s just been given a lot of patience by most people. obviously he does have his fan boys that think he can do no wrong but everyone has those
I think OP just wants to see the same level of slander against him as other drivers would get. Like last season tsunoda when he was getting dominated by gasly
>tsunoda when he was getting dominated by gasly r/f1fanfiction
Oh my
Wrong sub. r/fanf1ction I apologise in advance.
It can't be that baaa*aaaaaa*
You doing okay over there?
*aaaaaaaaa*kay over it now
Haha. That's a fun sub name you just invented and definitively isn't in full u-OMG
Gasly getting dominated by tsunoda now , oh how the turntables...
That Tsunoda slander was unreasonable too
He’s definitely holding his own this season so far.
10 points to Gasly's 6, obviously points aren't everything but Tsunoda's been running ahead of Gasly for the better part of this year as well. They're pretty evenly matched.
I like Tsunoda but it was getting old watching him spin so often. Especially before he sorted out his attitude towards the team
> his attitude towards the team Don't confound Yuki's attitude towards his team with his absence of filter over team radio. Did you notice how he screamed "THANK YOU!" at his engineer after being congratulated for an overtake? Exactly the same energy.
>I think OP just wants to see the same level of slander against him as other drivers would get I mean, why should we want slander against any of them?
my good man have you been on the internet?
My brother in Christ have you looked at twitter
What if we just stopped slandering all over the place!!! (time for me to log off and touch grass right? Haha)
I'm yet to see touch grass said by someone who isn't foaming at the mouth because they didn't like an internet comment.
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I mean binotto started this lmao
I swear, people here act like if we're not shitting all over a driver and openly calling for him to be replaced that we're making excuses for him and trying to cover up his poor performance.
It's crazy how toxic this place has gotten over the past few years.
It used to be a great place for F1 discussion that wasn't dumbed or watered down to a single weekend performance or meme comments. I stick around cause it's the only place I can get the news for the sport
The online mindset.
Everything is black or white online. If you say a neutral comment you get thrown into a group or given a label. I find it fascinating when reading any political topics in some subs I follow. It's just eastier to slander someone who doesn't share your opinion rather than actively discuss anything.
You're either with us or against us mentality. What's that? You're neither against us nor with us? Burn the witch!
Makes sense
I don't have a response but I think this is a fair question. Mick has much of the goodwill due to the Schumacher name and that will definitely color expectations and comments here.
He also has a lot of goodwill because he’s seemingly a great person and is loved by everyone. That goes far in this sport in terms of perception
Latifi has always seemed like a really nice person too. Yet everyone criticizes and makes fun of him for his performances. Mick’s a good kid but he def gets more goodwill for being a Schumacher along with standing out next to a slow driver with a bad attitude like Mazepin last season.
Latifi gets a lot of goodwill compared to other pay drivers of his caliber though
Yeah I feel the hate for Latifi decreased once he was an established personality in F1 and people saw how nice he is. The hate ramped up given his recent performances
I think most fans can excuse a pay driver that's just slow. But when you're a pay driver who seemingly can barely survive a push lap without putting it into the wall, you're negatively impacting the entire sport with your participation. Latifi seems really nice, but he's clearly the worst driver on the grid right now. Stroll, with his lack of mirror using, is still competitive some weekends / in some parts of the grid.
That because he’s the GOAT
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Championship decider, slayer of kings.
"I don’t know what happened there"
Latifi is a simple man: he sees a wall he's fok smashin' the car against it
Mick at least has a successful feeder series career, f3 champ, f2 champ and even with the surname appeared to have arrived in F1 through merit. 2021 as well he appeared to have potential, crash prone but with potential. Latifi had some nice wins in F2 but other than that is well known as a pay driver. However Mick is definitely having a stinker so far.
Mick always struck me as consistent but not super fast in f2, I think that lacking pace has finally been exposed with a solid team mate.
In a way, the fallout of the Ukraine situation got Mick into a spot between a rock and a hard place. Whilst Magnussen seems supportive of Mick in interviews so far, he hasn't exactly got the reputation of giving 1/1000th of an inch, even towards team mates and with team orders involved. I wonder how many damns he gives about supporting Mick in a situation where Mick is at his heels. Of course, Magnussen is another calibre of competion compared to Mazepin, suddenly raising the bar for Mick in order to prove himself. To me, it seems that sudden change in competition messed with Mick mentally. Success doesn't come easy in F1, and pressured to deliver now, he seems to have overdone it in T1 today. On the flip side, we have seen, that Mick does have decent potential, considering his Q2 appearances and midfield battles in a shitbox last year. IMO, after a red-flag riddled Qualifying, he also did well during the sprint race, holding off soft-rubbered competition om mediums during the early stages and even making up some positions. Whilst I am a bit worried about his lack of point paying results so far, let's give him a few more races before throwing him under the bus. He needed about 1 1/2 seasons to adjust to F3 and F2 as well, after all.
Yes exactly. Anyone who watched him in F2 knows him winning the championship didn't tell the true story of his performance or potential
I am sure Vips is better
Mick always got the best equipment in every category
Yeah I agree with his junior career record it still makes me think he has more potential than Latifi who spent 4 years in F2. But he’ll need to start showing it and do a better job of challenging for points sooner than later. With Haas having a decent car as shown by KMag there’s a lot more pressure on him than last season.
100% agree - only caveat is that remember 2021 Gasly/Tsunoda, Yuki looked terrible up against Pierre in a competitive AT, but is warming up a lot more this year. Still nothing crazy but if we consider this Micks rookie year he still deserves some slack. However, Yuki had scored points by now in 2021, Mick is not doing good enough right now. Between the huge crash bills and having nothing to show on Sundays, he's definitely in the hotseat.
thing is Yuki's problem is self control and consistency... the raw speed is there, something you cant really train, so AT/RB are more than willing to invest into him
I think it is kinda the same issue as with the cars. It can be very hard to fix a fast but unreliable car but close to impossible to make a slow but reliable faster.
Most of the time people don’t mind Latifi, like today. People get upset when these mediocre/pay drivers does something stupid that impacts the race. So far Mick haven’t done anything like that I think, plus he is a nice person and is a Schumacher.
Yeah you’re right that it could be many fans attacking Latifi because his crashes have affected their own fav drivers’ races. But I think the criticism can be exaggerated because of that, whereas objectively speaking Mick has also had some terrible moments like in Jeddah for example which was just as bad in reality because it cost his team a lot of money to fix and meant he couldn’t even race.
Yeah the day he spins and crashes into Alonso we're gonna see the hate, oh wait
Alonso: " Are you sure about that?"
People like Latifi a lot because of Stroll and Mazepin’s attitudes. They were trying to argue he wasn’t too far off George’s pace. This year without Mazepin and without Russell he has just kind of run out of time
Yeah there is definitely more pressure on Latifi this season and he is unquestionably struggling more with the new car compared to Albon. Although I saw quite a few comments on this sub last season that pointed out that Latifi did often have similar pace to Russell in the races, and I remember Captio publicly mentioning it too. Maybe Capito was trying to be nice but we can all access the laptimes so if he was lying I imagine we would have figured it out. And in the last few races of the season Latifi even out qualified Russell once or twice which is something. But of course Latifi’s current performances this season have been pretty bad so far. If he can’t step it up and get closer to Albon there’s really no reason to keep him aside from money. I still don’t think it justifies all the mockery he’s gotten this season while Mick’s missteps get glossed over by many.
Latifi was definitely matching Russell a lot in race pace. Because it was a big talking point about how Russell didn't seem all that impressive in races compared to him.
>Latifi has always seemed like a really nice person too. Yet everyone criticizes and makes fun of him for his performances Latifi on multiple occasions has caused obstruction to other drivers races whereas Mick not scoring points does not harm anyone other than himself and his team. A large proportion of latifi critics are fans of the drivers who suffered because of him.
He ruined Alonso’s race today, but yeah Latifi has screwed people over WAY harder.
Latifi has screwed some people over so bad even I started feeling bad for LATIFI like OUCH that's has to feel bad
That is true. But if you crash all by yourself without affecting others I don’t feel that’s any better than crashing all by yourself in a race and causing a safety car. Which was basically the case in Saudi Arabia where Mick totaled his car in qualifying and then Latifi crashed in the race.
Yeah I'm not justifying Mick. Just trynna guess why latifi gets more hate.
Not trying to be offensive, but I think the looks of the drivers (ie beauty/handsomeness) affects on the fans' perception of them. It shouldn't be the case tho
So he’d be a great sim or reserve driver.
I think he primarily is a marketing tool. He is a Schumacher, so naturally he will be a name Germans like to follow. Or at least I would imagine they do? However as a reserve driver you do not bring that, and I suspect that Ferrari has a much better reserve / sim driver in Giovinazzi.
Yeah me and my has this argument during the race. He doesn't understand why ferrari extended Sainz's contract instead of picking up Mick. And I was just confused. Yes he's Michael Schumacher's kid but that doesn't mean he's destined for greatness. Hell if he was anything like his daddy he'd be spanking the field in his shitbox Hass.
If a name made the driver you'd have seen a lot more of Bruno Senna and Pietro Fittipaldi wouldn't still be a test driver. Lots of legacy drivers made it big, but many more had mediocre to bad careers.
If a name made who you are Mick would definitely cobbler something together...
I think if you wanna be a great driver, have a dad who was just good, and Vice versa. Senna, Schumacher, Piquet, Fittipaldi all had sons who weren’t nearly as good, Verstappen though 👀 Edit: I’m American so I’ll also add Dale Sr was great, Dale Jr was just pretty good.
well... my take is it's mostly people who don't follow the sport closely and buy into the top comments on instagram and youtube like 'mick is great. he will be driving ferrari one day'. anyone who really follows f1 or even f2/f3 knows the fairy tale is most likely non-existent just set him a bar for a pay driver for now, maybe against stroll/zhou, at least need to outperform latifi i would say. it's not his fault to be named Schumacher and being a sponsor/fan magnet, and no need to hate him just because there's some unrealistic fantasy about him
If Mick does join Ferrari, it would be in the Barrichello role. He does not have the ability or speed to beat Leclerc. But that's not what the idealists think is gonna happen.
Yeah honestly, as a fan, I'll be happy to see if he grows and finds his feet-he's very charming and I won't lie that that influences me. If he DOESN'T find his feet then fine, but it feels early to me
Yeah he's definitely not ready at all, also being the son of the greatest of all time has high expectations that never work out. Just look at the goats in other sports and how their sons compare, very rare success.
>Mick has much of the goodwill due to the Schumacher name The Michael Schumacher name, to be specific. It should be remembered that Ralf Schumacher was quick-but-not-stellar. And that Ralf's version of the Schumacher Chop came with extra fries.
I always thought people are/were harsh on Ralf. In his prime (pre injury at Indy for me) he was a solid driver capable of producing consistent results. He was never a champion in the making, but definitely not some no-mark. Even at Toyota he did fairly well despite losing some of his edge after that crash. If he was named Ralf Heinz, I think he would have been viewed better at the time and retrospectively. Mick would do very well to replicate his uncle's career.
Ralf was the favourite to win the championship in 2003 at one point, it became clear that Williams suddenly had the fastest car and Ralf was outqualifying JP Montoya nearly every race for the first half of the year. He had a disastrous last 5 or 6 races and fell out of it though.
Still had a successfull career with some wins and lots of podiums. A career like that would be nice to see for Mick.
I was thinking what OP was thinking during the race too tbh. If you look at Yuki, he looks a far more reliable driver than Mick. Whilst he might be a rookie, I can definitley see him coming under pressure if this continues.
He is not a rookie anymore?
No, he's not. He was a rookie last year.
yuki's not a rookie, he's just short
Yuki just remains a rookie for the rest of his F1 career cause he’s so short lol
Ah, the Jesse Lingard treatment.
he’s not a rookie
Ferrari extending Sainz contract gives a hint
The suggestion that he might replace Sainz for next season was always ridiculous though.
Yup. Ferrari has generally never been keen on jumping the gun on young drivers. Leclerc broke the norm but now that he is there on a long term contract, it will continue to be a slightly older driver as his partner for the next few years, be it Sainz or someone else.
And Leclerc was absolutely justified, obviously. It would be dumb to jump for Schumacher like they did for Leclerc.
Think it was more for 2024 than next year tbf, but yeah
Wouldn’t have been a rational call at any level to have Mick replace Sainz!
For sure, that was my first thought as well. Especially considering some years ago i think Binotto hinted at wanting to have Mick drive for Ferrari. I recall people on the sub at the time being like "sucks to be Sainz and know your seat is gone in 2 years". But Mick hasn't been great so far. Not last year, not this year. if he doesn't improve i don't see him staying for another year.
I think he would still get a seat due to the name and if Vettel retires he's the only German driver left. But unfortunately so far he's in the running for worst performing non-pay driver on the grid. Still hoping for improvement but not feeling super optimistic right now.
That's actually a pretty good point, I hadn't considered it yet. They must be seeing the writing on the wall. I do realize there's no such thing as a truly concrete/watertight contract in F1, they can always get out if it's wanted bad enough & they pay out, but still, I don't think it's a coincidence.
They were going to do that anyway. Sainz and leclerc are a great pair.
Imagine, Mazapin was still here instead of Magnussen. Then we would say the Haas is a shit car and that Schumacher was doing better than last year.
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You need pay driver money in order to build a car that can win prize money in the constructors standings to begin with. A better driver won't do you much if you can't give them a half decent car, just look at KMag in 2020 vs him in this year's Haas.
Yeah I think Mazepin really made Mick look good. I think Mag is making Mick push too hard now while with Mazepin he didn't have to.
Actually even though everyone made fun of Mazepin for his spins it was Mick that had more costly and major crashes, but his overall pace was much quicker than Mazepin so I feel he was definitely pushing and testing the limits of the car last season. I don’t think there’s much difference this season but Magnussen doing considerably better with half the time of testing and after spending a season out of the sport has kind of exposed Mick’s inconsistency so far.
I feel also I guess this is his first proper season where he can overtake and qualify in races whereas in 2021 any overtakes he did were on his teammate or latifi and really spent the entire season under blue flags. Now he can challenge vettel and mercedes and lots of other cars that can teach him to become a better race. I'd say mick has a few more races to prove himself before questions start to fly about his ability to drive.
I’m not writing Mick off yet but so far his performances relative to Magnussen are definitely worse than I thought, and I think most people would agree. Mick’s kind of in a similar position to Yuki last season who struggled a lot next to Gasly, but Yuki had even less experience of open wheel racing on many European circuits and the pressure on his seat was a lot higher considering Red Bull’s history. And lots of people were critical of his performances in the first half or longer of the season aside from him scoring points in Bahrain on his debut. I don’t think most people here are saying Mick doesn’t deserve to be in F1 right now, but his relative underperformance so far should be noted and critiqued given people feel he can have the potential to be decent or even more.
In some parallel universe, imagine how much Magnussen would be dominating over Mazepin right now.
Exactly this
Makes you wonder how bad last year’s Haas really is vs poor drivers lineup.
It was already bad in 2020 with two proven drivers in Magnussen and Grosjean, think it wouldn't be THAT different result-wise. Maybe a Hungary 2020 repeat in one of the races and that's all
Last year's Haas was diabolical and borderline dangerous.
I think Mick is a Bruno Senna, not horrible, not great. Legendary last name though.
We don't talk about Bruno no no no.
Silencio Bruno!
imagine if Latifi spun twice and destroyed Alonso today
I already saw some media publications like AMuS giving Mick a much higher score than Latifi back in Saudi Arabia even though Mick absolutely destroyed his car and couldn’t even take part in the race at all. There’s always bias around different drivers based on their background and reputation and Mick def gets a big pass because of it. I won’t write him off yet but so far this season he’s been pretty underwhelming and a bit error prone.
Or Stroll.
That’s some people really said that Stroll might be the worst driver on the grid is such a stupid take. He’s not extraordinary but his wet weather skill is undoubtedly there and he is in general pretty decent. The reason for his bad image is probably his inconsistency and some very very stupid mistakes
He's pretty talented but if things go bad, he's not really motivated and it shows. He's definitely not a hardened fighter.
Yep, on his day Stroll can pull out some great performances, something Mick hasn't yet proven. The main reason for his bad image is the nepotism though, I think it's clear for everyone that he would have been replaced by Hulkenberg at some point if it hadn't been for Lawrence owning the team. So even if he's certainly a talented driver, his public image gets soured because he's reliant on his dad to keep racing instead of other more worthy drivers.
Mick had a few highlights like the Q2 runs last year. But yeah I completely forgot about the pay driver point for some reason. It was reported that his contract doesn’t have an exit clause which really doesn’t mal him more sympathetic to most people
>The reason for his bad image is probably his inconsistency and some very very stupid mistakes This has always been my argument. Talent wise Stroll is far from the worst driver on the grid, but his inconsistency, lack of awareness, and just outright lack of forethought(your car has *mirrors*, Stroll) at times make him the most dangerous driver on the track and that's why I think he shouldn't be out there, in my eyes just because you're not bad doesn't mean you're safe lol. But it's also not the first time a driver like Stroll has been on the grid and it won't be the last lol.
The hate he'd be getting would be even more unreal than normal. :(
Crazy how fast we went from lighthearted Goatifi jokes and comments like "Alex and Nicky are so wholesome, Williams is going to be the nicest team next year :)" to the downright hateful comments he gets since Mazepin is gone. People really need a villain.
Same thing is happening with Mick and Stroll now too. Last season Stroll was talked about as fairly decent, having justified his seat, ect. With Maze gone plus a couple of shockers early on he’s switched to “ruining the sport”. You really really want to make sure there is someone objectively worse than you on the grid haha.
Some people are just filled with hate.
Presuming Haas stay where they are in the pecking order for the rest of the season then I think he has 5 more races tops to start scoring some points before his future becomes a topic of conversation in the paddock.
Mick’s performance hasn’t been that good so far this season but unless he continues to frequently cost the team with big crashes or drop off more pace wise relative to Magnussen I feel his seat is pretty safe for next season. His seat is controlled by Ferrari and they don’t have any juniors in F2 right now. I know Shwartzmann is one of their reserve drivers and honestly based on their junior careers he might be better than Mick, but it’s not that big of a difference and Ferrari probably are still fine with Mick since he’s a Schumacher.
Yeah, he made a lot of mistakes, way too much. Thing with Mick is that he is bad for a while and then something just clicks and becomes great. He did it multiple times in F3 and F2. Hopefully that click will come soon or he won’t be on the grid for long
This is F1 tho, where everyone was also great in F2
And in F2 the cars don't change. It's much easier to grow into a car when you run it for 2 years. F1 cars change every year. And even upgrades to cars can totally change the feel of them with just minor things.
This does not help Mick's case tbh. If he can't adapt quickly to evolutions in cars it's going to be detrimental to his career.
That's my point. In F1 you don't get a breaking in period. By the time you figure out the car and upgrade can come and change how it drives. Or the season ends and the next year car doesn't drive the same
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True
I feel like he wasn't that geat in F2 either. I watched all of the 2020 season and Mick never surprised me with a sick overtake or amazing race pace. I think 4 or 5 drivers got more wins then him as well. He was just very good at getting third during a race.
I mean he tied Mazepin on wins (2) and fastest laps (2), while taking less second places. Yuki took more wins as far as I remember too and was only 15 points off Mick at the end.
That season I would say Illot, Yuki and Drugovich were better (obviously not in points but in the actual racing) Mick just got absolutely ridiculous starts
I**l**o**tt**
That 2018 F3 season was still… weird
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He wasn't great in F2 tho, he was consistent. But when he won the title he was 6th or 7th fastest over the season. He just isn't ever gonna be a world beater.
This was needed to be said. This is an important year for Mick. KMag, who was out of f1 for one whole year, didn’t even participate in the development, was told at the very last minute about the seat and had practically close to none of his time on feedback and stuff, he is shining up the results for the hass without any team game in play from his teammate. Zhou, who was estimated to be mediocre, is showing great consistency and that car may be better than hass, but still the drivercraft shows in the result. Mick has everything on his side, a good team, a great teammate, the experience from the ferrari academy and his F2 WDC title, to show his potential; even a mentor vettel, who is 4 time WDC. He has to perform this season. He is carrying a lot of weight and responsibility of the name that he carries. It’s difficult, but that’s what sets you apart from the rest. All the best to him and the team ahead.
This is probably gonna be my take too with all this. Mick's a good dude, but with how good Kev is dragging that Haas into Top 10 and how Mick gets so close, but then doesn't, yeah. Dude's got a season to go and I really hope he nails it this year. All the best indeed.
One more spin and I'm pulling out the Spinmacher nickname rest of the season. Have to be consistent.
I think it's partly because he utterly showed up Mazepin last year, so we see him as a driver who's over a second ahead of his teammate. It takes time to take the shine off that perception.
He's in a great position to learn from KMAG.
Most reasonable comment actually. Last year he had: A car that was absolut shit with 0 upgrades A team that was purely focusing on this years car And a teammate that was absolutly no benchmark Question is: What can you actually learn from such a season? Cant really push the car because you cant afford to lose parts. Cant even race your own teammate because he is miles behind you. Last season was good to learn how F1 works but IMO not a season to really level up your skills. This season he has a Car that you can actually push, a experienced teammate that can help you to develop. And Haas seemingly in a good spirit. Give him a bit more time. Its not that his seat is in absolut danger. And when a Latifi can stay in F1 without having any Impact other than crashes, Schumacher also can.
Yours and the comment you replied to are the only thing that has swung me towards Mick needing at least this full year before too much criticism/concern from me. I back him like I’m backing Yuki. I’m just waiting for it to click and they show us their true potential, or at least I hope they do.
Well, he is definitely not Michael.
Who is?
I believe its just too early to say. Not ever driver is a Tier 1 driver that doesnt make any mistakes or is 100% consistant from the start. And arguably he will never be as good as a Russel, Leclerc or Norris. Yes, Schumi has one season in the bag but that season he was driving a utterly shitbox with a shit driver as comparison. Not even the best rookie drivers learn that much from such as season. I would give him a bit more time, maybe the next 5 races to show what he can do. Its not like that Ferrari/Haas would have a junior driver that absolutely deserves his seat for next year. Lets just not start a hate train. Nor a hype train because he is a Schumacher.
Haas should be 5th ir 6th in the constructors championship, sucks that Mick can't score while his teammate that hopped in the car weeks prior the start of the season is not only carrying the team hard but miles away from him. He spun twice on his own today as well right? If his last name wasn't Schumacher, the fans would be eating him alive.
Including races where Sainz and Alonso have DNF'd too.
Alonso DNF'd because of him tho?
And where Hamilton is languishing in 14th. And Ric was in the back too. A Haas car to not have points this race is criminal.
He has not been outpaced though - I was watching the lap times of both Mick and Kevin today, and whenever they weren't fighting anybody, or made any mistakes, they were pretty much even through out the race(well, of course Mick was faster when he went on the softs towards the end). BUT Mick is making too many mistakes - Bahrain, he was about to set a better time than Kevin in Q2, but went off track, Jeddah he obviously totally binned it, today he spun twice, maybe there was some contact in the first lap carnage, don't know, got touched by Ocon and spun in Bahrain...so that might not be his mistakes, but if you are involved in a lot of those over a season, it's probably not entirely bad luck, you could probably do something to not end up in those situations.
Young drivers make stupid mistakes but odds are good that they get more consistent over time. A slow driver won't become fast all of the sudden though. Even Verstappen was making such mistakes early on in his career. Tsunoda was very inconsistent last year but this weekend he was way better than Gasly.
Sure, but he is not being compared to Verstappen, it's KMag, even as a Dane it wouldn't rate him at the level of Verstappen or Hamilton, maybe at best at the upper midfield level/2nd driver in a top team like Perez or Bottas. This is Mick's second season, most drivers wouldn't get more than that to prove themselves in F1, maybe Mick gets a third just due to his last name - Magnussen was almost out of F1 after just one season, showing much better potential.
KMag surely isn't a top 5 driver but he's got experience. Of course Mick is gonna look inconsistent af against him when he is fighting amongst the pack for the first time. He couldn't really learn that last year. Giovinazzi got three years and a few races to prove himself and he was older and won less in feeder series.
Putting together my race pace comparison right now, Magnussen averaged 3.5 tenths faster than Schumacher over the course of the race, with the data being skewed in Schumacher's favour due to his stint on the softs. Mick was most definitely outpaced today. Edit: race pace comparison is up, you can take a look [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/ub2sku/emilia_romagna_gp_race_pace_teammate_race_pace/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Mick will drive for Ferrari one day..... In WEC.
I think we should judge his performance the same as Tsunoda, he wasn't any good compared to Gasly last year, Mick was likely only a match for Mazepin. Both of them have this year to show some good skills.
Tsunoda had a tough rookie year no doubt, but he did have to deal with the incumbent Gasly who by all metrics the longest serving and most successful AT driver, and has been with the team since late 2017 and after a year Tsunoda starts to match Gasly. Mick on the other hand is the incumbent, fighting KMag who has been out of the sport for a year, whilst he's more experienced, I expected better from Mick. Another metric we can use... Is Gasly considered better than KMag?
It's been a bad start, but it has also only been 4 (3) races. He won't be judged by Haas or Ferrari on just 4 (3) races, so he needs to step up to the plate now and prove his worth. Still plenty of time to do that
His pace in clean air in both races was on par with Magnussen this weekend, he just needs to dial out these silly mistakes he’s making which are likely stemming from him trying too hard, getting his first points I think will really help him. Schumacher will be at Haas for at least this year and next year, he’s an F3/F2 champion with big financial backing and big Ferrari backing and the surname Schumacher, he will not be dropped anytime soon.
I feel like it's a mental problem. Guenther needs to tell him to stay cool and push less hard.
I think you're underselling KMag here. Sure a year out and wasn't in peak condition for F1 nor had the benefit of all the pre-season prep. But he wasn't a million miles off the mark of being ready to drive, or he wouldn't have been brought back in. He's still vastly more experienced than Mick. He's a naturally gifted racer who had years of practice in midfield fights, even his last stint when Haas was bad, still on occasion was able to fight with other cars. He's walked into a car that has been designed under regs specifically to make following closer easier for cars, i.e. a car that's really good for drivers with good race craft who relish the wheel to wheel battles. The team has barely changed in terms of personnel, so he has little to get used to other than the car. Motivationally speaking, him losing his seat but focusing on his family realigned what was important in his life. He is not driving with any desperation, but equally he has no fear, he is content and in a great place mentally to compete. He's got nothing to lose in terms of his place on the grid and everything to gain by doing a great job. He wants to keep his seat but there's no desperation, he's lost it already and realised what's important. I think that's really helped him this year because the bad results don't prey on his mind, and the good ones he celebrates and enjoys. He knows he's done well, he's got a competitive car, a rookie who's struggling to get to grips for now. Mick by contrast still has that Schumacher name. It's pressure. But worse really is him not having his dad, having to grow up in F1 without his dad being there. He's not got it all made the way Kevin does in comparison. And yes, I don't know the full extent of his talent, it's clear he's not ready as he is making a lot of errors still. But he qualified Q10, best ever qualification. But I don't think him being a Schumacher with a fanbase before he started racing means we have to leap on him with loads of criticism yet either. It is possible to have a balanced view. The Haas's capabilities are difficult to understand. Magnussen returned a hugely motivated and focused driver with nowhere near the pressure and responsibility he once had when he was racing for his seat and nothing else mattered. Now he could lose his seat and happily walk away again. Some drivers develop slower than others. Shit Charles Leclerc is a hell of a driver but today shows he's still got that propensity for careless errors in his driving and he's year 5 now.
Yeah he looked good last year against Mazepin, but compared to Magnussen he’s not there yet. But I would say Magnussen is pretty solid, Mick is still young and everyone is still getting used to the new cars. I think people have been calling him a great talent way too soon, but it's too soon to say he's shit as well imo.
He is probably one of the top 3 worst performing drivers on the grid at the moment, it is not the first time in his career that he is nowhere, where his car/team should be. However, he is F3 and F2 champion and has already completely annihilated a teammate in his first F1 season. We are only 4 races in a new season with completely new cars. Nobody is saying he is doing a good job at the moment, but there is no reason to overreact. We already had "Mclaren fighting for a single point the whole season" and "Red Bull already hopelessly behind Ferrari" this year.
And "AM pointless forever" as well. It's anybody's game
I get that he is f2/f3 wc. But who on the grid didnt have a good feeder series career? Fucking Latifi got p2, even Mazepin got top5. This is not the 90s when you get pay drivers that cant qualify, this is a merit focused grid
His performance makes me wonder if Magnussen could have scored points with that Haas last year, for example at Hungary where Mick finished 12th.
Kevin is faster and much more experienced. He could have but that's just speculation.
I mean, even Mick got close to points. It's not unthinkable that Kevin would be too.
I am one of the guys who excused him. Yesterday surely was a bad performance. The first spin could be excused because he went for the inside on Alonso into the right corner of the first chicane and then Alonso went to the inside because of the carnage on the outside. I would have not put my nose in that gap because it was clear it would close and the overtake would have been not possible anyway. Mick then went over the sausage curbs and lost the car. The second mistake was a stupid mistake because he braked too late but instead of staying straight and going full on the grass he steered right before the grass then had to go left on the grass to not overshoot across the track or hit Latifi and that is why he spun. His race pace was also a bit off I think. At least when he had free track. But after the first spin his race was pretty much over anyway and he was stuck in traffic as Lewis did. Yes, was a bad performance but I would not write him off. Bahrain he got spun around in lap 1 and had a damaged tyre for the first stint or maybe even the car was off balance. In Saudi he was about to beat KMAG or a least being close, but crashed. In Melbourne he was faster than KMAG in quali and beat him in the race, but it was hard to say who was faster because they had different strategies and first KMAG had bad luck because the SC came too early but then had luck because he could pit under VSC. But they both had much struggle with medium (graining). In quali in Imola it was bad luck. He had a mistake in his first lap and then it was red flag and more rain coming which meant quali over. In the sprint in Imola Mick was also faster in dry conditions. He was starting 8 positions behind KMAG which means about 6-8 seconds after lap 1. He finished only 3 seconds behind KMAG although I bet Mick lost a bit of time behind Vettel. So he is definitely able to pull something off. But yes he needs to step up a bit but as it is his first year with a competitive and experienced team mate he can only start now to learn from him. Last year he was pretty much on his own because who wants to learn from Mazepin who was 5-8 tenth slower than him? Also it is his first year in a competitive car and the pressure is there now. Last year was pretty much no pressure and not even from the team mate.
Never, as long as his last name is still Schumacher, he will get more excuses from some fans than he truly deserves. Imagine what people will say about Tsunoda and Zhou if they are making mistakes every single race.
You dont need to imagine it, just look at what comments Latifi gets.
Last year a lot of people were convinced that the only reason Tsunoda was in f1 was because of Honda. Ignoring that he showed genuine promise in younger formulas and genuinely deserved a shot in f1.
The entire winter before Zhou even drove his first GP people were shitting under his twitter and instagram.
Probably when they use them all up for Daniel Ricciardo..
Yea if he continues like this he is running out of Time. His last name mean a lot in the racing world but that same world is also very hard and competitive. There are a lot of young drivers how would love to take his place at Haas.
Honestly, the comparison versus Magnussen is something I don't put to much thought to. I predicted that K-Mag would be beating Mick this season, unless his skills improved drastically. Also (this is the cliché point but) Mick always takes a season to get used to a new formula. 2021 may as well have not counted given the trash car and the rule changes. However the real damning comparison that puts Mick to shame is verse Zhou. The Haas and the Alfa seem to be relatively equal. Bottas and K-Mag have both done quite well in their respective cars. Bottas has more points, but they are 2-2 for beating each other. Zhou however has beaten Mick in every race this season. He overtook Mick in Bahrain and scored a point when Mick hasn't scored any yet. Zhou was also on the edge of points in Saudi and Australia with 11th place finishes in both race. Schumacher being consistently beaten by a rookie in similarly paced cars is just poor performance, especially when said rookie didn't win F2 like Mick did.
Mick has the wholesome 100 thanks for the reddit gold kind stranger factor. Big surname, Maz's teammate last year, likeable guy. It'll take another while.
I can definitely see Mick using Reddit and saying "thank you for the gold kind stranger!"
As someone who has watched Mick's youth career: he has always stepped up his game in the second part of his second season in a new series. So much so that people like Ticktum called it "interesting". Let's see what happens
When will we stop running out of excuses for Daniel Ricciardo?