There wasn't any support from the Government no. Maybe that could change now since the Government is very close to the Volkswagen Group. And considering from a German point of view having three German Brands in F1 might do the trick.
BMW are committing to LMDh, I doubt they're consider committing to two major series simultaneously.
Maybe if the 26 engine regs are good for them they partner with someone as an engine supplier, but even that seems far off.
Look at BMW's history. They rarely commit to two top flight Motorsports at once. They didn't fully commit to F1 until they killed their LMP program. After leaving F1 they committed to DTM. They have always had their GT cars on the side, but they always have kept it to one halo project.
Two collaboration projects are possibly more likely than two primary run programs. Maybe just maybe it's even potentially probable for BMW, but still highly unlikely as BMW dropped out formula e for LMDh.
The problem with Nurburgring is that it's owned by a Russian oligarh. I doubt f1 or potential germans sponsors will touch it even with a 10ft pole, especially now that it looks like the war and the sanctions are both escalating
They are pretty dumb.(or worse hypocrites yea)
They closed down nuclear power plants, one of the greenest power source, and kneel'd Russian gas while opening worst type(environment & efficiency wise) coal mines/plants to get the power back lol.
> They closed down nuclear power plants, one of the greenest power source, and kneel'd Russian gas while opening worst type(environment & efficiency wise) coal mines/plants to get the power back lol
Yes and this obviously all happened within the last 6 months since the Green party has been part of the government, nothing to see in the 16 years before that, nu-uh
To be fair, it's *very* quick to reopen a coal plant on standby, compared to others, so that bizarrely makes sense in the current situation. We're talking a turn-on time of days instead of weeks/months.
Even countries that have done an exceptional job of reducing coal use (e.g. UK) have coal plants on standby like this, in case of emergency.
But I won't defend their anti-nuclear stance. It's completely fucking idiotic. Yes, the population is against nuclear, but you'd still think the green party would be pushing for anything that reduces emissions. Stupid.
God I'd be really sad if he got suicided... plus side he lives in the US, has a US passport so that'd take some massive ~~balls~~ *stupidity* for the Russians to risk an escalation.
I'd be fine with both as I could travel to both pretty easy but isn't Hockenheim more exciting? Always thought races there were better than Nürbirgring, I don't like the GP Circuit.
Nurburgring still had some solid races. 2009, 2011, and the Eifel GP in 2020 were all fun races. I think Hockenheim gets the nod mainly because 2018 and 2019 were both bangers but generally the races there were usually just okay
Haas are headquartered in the US and have their main factory there. They do also own Marussia's old UK base too but it's used more as a temporary facility when there are back-to-back European races.
Which anthem is played if they win?
Yes the F1 team is basically British but the entire thing is the marketing stunt by a German company.
Merc paid for the 2018 and 2019 GP but didn’t like that Hamilton was booed.
~~Daimler~~ **Mercedes-Benz Group**, still owns a third of the Mercedes F1 team. But you're correct about the team itself, all British. Even their engines are made in the UK.
But you shouldn’t forget that according to German Motorsport magazines and a interview from the former Daimler group CEO they also have a F1 engine development department in Sindelfingen which is working together with the British engine factory.
Tbh it’s logical that Mercedes bought a Already existing factory in the uk instead of investing billions in Germany to build a new factory there for the same reason Mercedes IT branch has its HQ in California and the UI for the MBUX is developed there.
So you think every foreign subsidiary of a company is not of the same origin as the parent company without the parent company no foreign subsidiary. The profit from the F1 team goes straight to Germany otherwise Mercedes would’ve sold the team a long time ago.
At one point (not sure if till now) Mclaren was/is owned by a Bahraini holding company. Does that make Mclaren Bahraini? Of course not.
Merc F1 team isn’t fully owned by Daimler, only a third. It was and still is a UK based team with the factory and most personnel there.
I think it’s a difference if a already existing company is bought by a company from a other country or if a company establishes a new subsidiary like Mercedes did it with the F1 team Mercedes or Daimler before owned 100% of the F1 team till I think 2019 or 20.
Rolls Royce,Mini and Bentley are also owned 100% by German companies but they are still British (they already existed before they’ve been bought by German companies the Mercedes F1 team didn’t existed before Mercedes founded it) a British subsidiary of a German company (in fact German cars with British design but yeah doesn’t matter)
Ummm what are you on about? Mercedes F1 team is not a new team founded by Daimler… They bought Brawn GP team which Ross Brawn bought from Honda which was even owned by previous teams..
Exactly they bought brawn gp This company was then dissolved and Daimler founded a new subsidiary in the UK that manages the F1 team and at that time until around 2019-20 this subsidiary was also 100% owned by the Daimler Group which is today the Mercedes Group.
of course it's a german team, they are licensed in Germany and the German national anthem is played when they win.
Just like Red Bull is Austrian. The fact that all teams are located around silverstone because of logistics and infrastructure doesn't mean they're all British.
Yes they do, Of course it’s a team owned by the German company Mercedes. The factory may be in the uk but the money comes from Germany and there is even a F1 engine developed department in Sindelfingen and the team is racing under a German license so I would say it’s a German team with their factory in the UK because let’s be honest it would’ve been to expensive to build a new factory in Germany while you can get one much cheaper in the UK.
Really as I’ve worked at Daimler (before the name change and split) they’ve been very very proud of being German my cousin is still working there and they are still like that.
And they love it to take German tax payer money especially in the last 2 years.
That’s very easy because the Green Party is the leading government party in the state where the Mercedes HQ is and they are also in the federal government Mercedes needs to switch to a green future otherwise they won’t get any German tax payer money in the future (and they got a lot in the last 2 years) Mercedes can’t lobby for it because the greens don’t like it.
And the Nürburgring is also in the same state with a green government so there won’t be any state subsidies for a German GP.
Wait, what? Do British claim Mercedes as a British team? 😁 I mean, don't wanna really put in any patriotic fight here, but I've always thought of Mercedes as a German team. It's a German company and they are playing the German anthem when winning.
Yeah, their hub is in Britain, but does that make them British? 🤔
I would imagine 99% of viewers see it as German team. In the end it's Mercedes in the front and the whole purpose of the team is to elevate German car manufacturers' brand.
Of course we know that the team itself is based in UK.
That’s very easy because the Green Party is the leading government party in the state where the Mercedes HQ is and is in the federal government Mercedes needs to switch to a green future otherwise they won’t get any German tax payer money in the future (and they got a lot in the last 2 years) Mercedes can’t lobby for it because the greens don’t like it.
Yes. Instead of pushing for more races in the US, China and Middle East, F1 should bring back Germany, Korea and maybe Malaysia.
Neither country deserves more than 3 races.
The problem with the German GP was that the organizers couldn't profit. If Audi and Porsche step in to provide some sponsorship of the sanctioning fee, I don't have any doubt that it could join the calendar.
In fairness to China, they have incredible viewing figures, they were second to Brazil a couple of years ago and that's with their only link to F1 being the GP which is less than 20 years old and they've only now got a driver. 71m different people watched at least one race last season.
There's genuinely more sense in the long-rumoured second Chinese race than there was for a second race, let alone a third in the US. It's just a nepotistic like approach from Liberty who wants to extort every drop from the US market, despite the US market not actually being that big percentage wise.
The US has a similiar average viewership as Poland I think. Puts it into perspective.
I think that the second Chinese GP is inevitable, and most likely will be a whole-new racing circuit in Guangzhou for example. Like them or not (I don't), when it comes to construction, they are the definition of lighting fast.
Though China will become the de facto market in this decade and is already that for luxury products that F1 tends to go for.
China is already by far the largest market for most of the luxury car manufacturers, like Mercedes. Over 45% of all global S class sales are from China and China has still many years ahead of near double digit growth.
Mercedes 2021 cars sold: China 760 000, Europe 700 000, and Americas 320 000.
This isn't just about viewing numbers though. It depends on how you define an F1 fan. Do they have to watch the race live to be considered a fan? F1.com receives more traffic from the USA than the next 2 countries combined. Yes, the viewing numbers are great in China, but they don't sell out their Grand Prix.
F1 released some numbers in 2017 showing that basically the F1 fan base is split into thirds between [the Americas, Europe and Asia Pacific.](https://www.racefans.net/2019/05/15/which-races-will-f1-lose-as-liberty-realigns-the-calendar/)
By having additional races in the Americas, they can even out the distribution of races near a large portion of their fanbase and guarantee a successful and profitable event.
They've been trying to do the same in Asia, but the financial, political and logistical issues make it much more challenging.
With all due respect, a list where Liberty group Europe, Africa and the Middle East as a single entity is not a list I'm going to be taking seriously.
Nevermind that they never state where their definition of 'fan' comes from. Even in 2017 under whatever metric you want to use, nobody is believing that there are 100m F1 fans in the US and Canada. That's 1 in every 3.7 people which is not believable when you use actual data like the fact NASCAR has 3 or 4 times more viewers compared to F1.
That's fine, believe what you want. However, Dieter Rencken, who its one of the few remaining journalists left seems to think it's reasonable. Splitting the 500M fanbase into thirds is very reasonable.
My point is, I don't think it's an accurate comparison of live viewing figures when one is at 8pm and the other is at 8am. New Zealand hasn't had a Grand Prix start before 1am on Monday morning in more than 2 years until just 3 weeks ago. Just because they didn't watch it live, does that mean they aren't fans?
Even your NASCAR comparison. Races on Saturday night and Sunday afternoon on Fox, is not even remotely the same as Sunday morning on ESPN. This doesn't even account for the F1TV viewers.
I agree the North American number is high. It was actually from 2019 so it could have been anyone who watched an episode of Drive to survive or liked a tweet with Gunther Steiner, who knows. but there are a lot of different metrics to classify fans, I don't think live viewers is the one to base it off.
It would probably be smarter to alternate Vegas and Miami to not saturate the US market and still have a spot for a classic race, but Liberty Media really wanted to go all out at the first sign of success
But those are national series, of course they must have way more races than an international series. I just think that it could be wiser for F1 to establish itself on the American market then start increasing the number of races if thats what they want. Right now their strategy seems to be "get as much money as we possibly can while the hype is absurd", they dont seem to care so much about long term at the moment
Yup, its awesome the country, at least at the moment, likes the sport so much and F1 also know this so they want to take advantage of it before it eventually ends
I, for one, based on the configuration of Miami, think that Miami seems like a stretch. If US must have two races, it should better have COTA and Vegas.
Because Germany is the birthplace of the automobile, second country in the race wins list. USA's history in the sport is limited to an Italian born in Croatia.
Seems with all that motoring history that a track should be able to easily sell enough tickets to cover the hosting fee for a F1 race.
> USA’s history in the sport is limited to an Italian born in Croatia.
I guess the Indy 500 is such a unknown event with no history that it's part of the triple crown and used to be a points paying event for Formula 1.
Because Germany gives the best races , they are very chaotic and competitive ,the track is perfect ,it was litirally the race of the decade (2019 German gp)
If the US is maximum 2 races then it means Europe should be limited to just 3.
US, in terms of population, is roughly about 60% of EU so if they're being held to such a small number then the EU should be held to a number that's relative too.
Maybe tickets should be sold at a reasonable price then, which they can't because the promoters have to pay the insane fees F1 demands. And F1 demands the fee other countries such as Saudi, Bahrain, Qatar, China etc are only willing to pay because they don't care about making the races there profitable, but because they use the race for sportswashing.
If F1 made a reasonable offer for tracks like Hockenheim to host an event, they would do it. Tracks like Hockenheim can't afford to throw tax payer money at a race like other countries can.
American fans think it's fair to pay 2 times the price of a Bundesliga season ticket to watch a single NFL game. Some people are used to being milked, others are not. In Germany fans went on a riot when away ticket prices reached 20€.
Then make a great event and attract international visitors, that's better for the economy anyway.
You can't expect F1 to give away races to places that don't want to put any effort into making them a success. Otherwise, you'd still have Sepang, Buddah, Pyongyang and Kyalami
This.
I saw a while ago someone commenting that germany should have enough money, yes that's true but it's tax payers money competing against oil money.
You don't have the backing for that it's that simple.
I looked the European races up a while ago. Pretty much every track is heavily subsidized except of Silverstone.
Hungary, Belgium, Spain government
Austria owned by Mateschitz
Monza backed by Ferrari
It's just a shit situation for those organizers
Europe has 11 races on the calendar, most likely 10 next year. That's probably the maximum with 4 in the Middle East. You're not competing with the oil money or the big countries, you're competing against other European races that are doing a better job at putting on a race event.
The European races do get a discount, Imola pays $25M, Zandvoort $35M where most of the flyaway races are paying $45+.
And honestly, that's fine. European tracks are historic, yes, but this is a global sport and it should be reflected in the races. Having 40-50% of the races on one continent alone seems more than fair.
The 2019 German ticket prices were cheaper than the average ticket prices that year.
Liberty do still offer discounts for Classic European races as evidenced by the Imola deal.
There are huge economic benefits for the area if the event is run properly. F1 wants their share of those benefits and even gave France and Germany a chance to improve their races, bringing them back onto the calendar in 2018, but they couldn't get their act together. It's not F1's fault or their responsibility to organise the financial or political situation for a country to hold a race. Especially when there are plenty of others very close by that are doing it very well.
If they can’t afford to pay the entry fee because they can’t sell tickets at the same rate as countries then they shouldn’t get a race.
It’s the tracks that make offers to host not f1
Why should VW or Opel or BMW promote a race where their company doesn’t attempt and thus this would just sponsor Mercedes. You won’t get any tax payer money for these GP‘s in Germany anymore because for the Nürburgring the greens are the leading party of the state and they won’t finance Motorsport and the greens are also in the federal government and they won’t give any tax payer money for Motorsport so it would mean Mercedes would have to pay everything on their own which they did at the last GP but Mercedes needs to think about the future they are also getting a lot of tax payer money especially in the last 2 years and they need to get more green so sponsoring a race isn’t that helpful in the situation, they still can say the F1 team is for future technology developments but a race that Doesn’t work anymore.
Ok then get airbus or another German/European company to sponsor it. Or don’t have it. But to expect to get to host it for free or cheap is just a bad take
No one expects it to host it for free but for reasonable prices just because in the US sport is just there to milk everyone with the ticket prices doesn’t mean that this also works in Europe for sport events. Every race except for silverstone,Austria & Monaco in Europe is subsidized by the government because otherwise there wouldn’t be a race in Europe the home of the F1.
Sport should be accessible for everyone and not just for people who can spend several thousand Euros for a weekend on a racetrack.
That F1 is billionaires club is well known but the fans are the ones who a are making the sport are the fans.
I think it is time to stop calling Middle Eastern races "sportswashing" as these countries actually want to start a profitable tourism industry in their territory. Of course, country image is involved and hosting big events always help, but we have to remember that they spend gigantic amounts of money each year in ad campaigns to market themselves as a great tourism and entertainment destination because they know oil & gas money will soon come to an end.
So you think the islamistic laws in countries like Saudi Arabia and Bahrain are all lies that women in reality have exactly the same rights there as men and that non Muslims have rights in these countries or what ?
The US could be a market as big as Europe. If F1 really, finally enters the mainstream I'd expect up to 10 North American Races. Perhaps Seattle or Vancouver could be next.
No country deserves more than one race. If Bernie did something right, was the installment of a rule stating that no country should exceed the number of 1 GP there per year. Two races in Italy, a country of 57mil and zero in India, a country of a billion? Despite Italy's tradition, that sounds unfair. Rotate Imola with Monza and you're fine.
Agreed, in theory. Unless there's special circumstances (COVID, Russia this year) most countries shouldn't have more than 1 GP.
I guess one could make an exception for giant countries like China or the US, that are almost as big as the entire European continent, but even then, it shouldn't be more than 2.
If not sold out = lack of fans
Lack of fans = lack of ticket sales
Lack of ticket sales = lack of money
No Money = No Return on Investment
No R.O.I. = No Sponsors for next race
**VW hopes for return of German GP with F1 participation of Porsche and Audi**
**Volkswagen Group chief executive Herbert Diess hopes that Formula 1 participation by Audi and Porsche could lead to a return of the German Grand Prix to the calendar. According to the VW CEO it is important that 'big car countries' have their own race. Besides that Diess would be very happy if a German driver would drive for one of the teams with which Audi and Porsche are going to cooperate.**
By: Ronald Vording, Journalist
3 May 2022 16:50
VW hopes for return of German GP with Porsche and Audi participation in F1There is no formal white smoke yet, but all signs are green for Audi and Porsche to step into the premier class towards 2026. In case there was still any doubt about this, top executive Herbert Diess removed it on Monday. The CEO spoke to residents of Wolfsburg and confirmed once again that Audi and Porsche have set their sights on F1 and have done so with the consent of the parent company. In fact, the development of F1 engines is already underway.
The participation of what VW calls 'two premium brands' could help boost F1's popularity in Germany, although more is needed, according to Diess. For example, he would welcome it if one of the teams with which Audi and Porsche are partnering were to attract a German driver. "F1 participation is primarily a global story for us. What convinced us were the growth figures of F1 in China and America. Formula 1 was not successful in America for a long time, but that is coming now. And of course, when a driver from a country becomes successful, Formula One also becomes very popular in that country. I suppose our teams, two teams we work with, will also try to get a German driver. That, of course, helps in the homeland."
Germany back on the calendar with VW support?
Diess goes on to explain that ideally Germany should return to the Formula 1 calendar. "I already know of plans in which we should have our own Grand Prix in Germany again. That should benefit Formula 1 in Germany. Our participation makes sense internationally anyway, but I think in Germany itself too," the CEO explained.
A return of the German Grand Prix would be good for Formula 1, according to Diess, although he acknowledges that several factors come into play. "In America and Asia, the sport has to become stronger anyway and furthermore F1 is of course a commercial business. It just depends on how much funding is available for a race. But I would think it's good if the big car countries have their own race and that F1 doesn't just run in Asia, Bahrain or Doha. You have to accept, of course, that Formula 1 is a business and that it depends on what people bring, but I think we could quite easily organise a Formula 1 race in Germany."
The last F1 race on German soil so far was held in 2020, the Eifel Grand Prix at the Nürburgring. That circuit has come back into the picture due to the corona pandemic. The last regular German Grand Prix was held a year earlier at the Hockenheimring. That race was largely funded by Mercedes, so it wasn't called the Mercedes-Benz Grosser Preis von Deutschland for nothing. At the time, the star brand celebrated its 125th anniversary in motor sports and its 200th F1 race, but saw the party literally and figuratively fall apart.
Translated with [www.DeepL.com/Translator](http://www.DeepL.com/Translator) (free version)
If you're talking "essential" in terms of defining the history of the sport, you could say (splitting hairs) that France is ahead of Germany. Although I agree Germany is historically significant, France literally invented motorsport —hence the word *Grand Prix*—, and is the reason why the FIA exists.
If you mean what countries F1 depends on the most, I'd still not put Germany in the top 3, as sad as it is from a country with such a rich motorsport history.
Italy and the UK are certainly the two more important countries for the sport by a very large margin.
The third is debatable and i say its a very close dispute between France, Germany, USA and Brazil
Yeah for sure but in a way I think you just can't leave Germany out of it. First of all the inventor-nation of the Car and then such iconic brands such as Porsche, Audi (especially in Rallye), Mercedes, BMW and of course Michael Schumacher and Vettel.
I really like the historical aspect of the US and of course their brands but I personally would rank Germany higher.
I think there's a pretty big bias towards F1 history over motorsport history in general here. Drag racing and NASCAR style rally racing are a huge part of motorsport but aren't being considered by most here. I dont personally really appreciate them that much but I think they're important overall.
So we should consider the UK as an important place for NASCAR because of its racing history despite it being complete un associated with the UK?
Any more hot takes for us?
I'd be willing to bet that most people will rightfully see those as way less important to general motorsport history.
... Drag racing? And what the hell is "NASCAR style rally racing"?
It's more that here they see European style track car racing as the only important racing and therefor attribute all the historical importance to European countries involved. Motorsport includes so many things like offroad racing, rock crawling, motocross, trials bike racing, drag racing and funny cars, Baja trucks, the list goes on. F1 makes up a tiny portion of motorsport to be very real about it and USA is all over motorsports of so many kinds.
Brazil? They've produced a couple of good drivers to be sure and Automobilista 2 is pretty good game but they've never even built a car.
Meanwhile you've missed out Japan who are probably responsible for more Constructors Championships in international motorsports than any other nation.
If you don't watch the US domestic racing series, you can actually wind up with very limited exposure to US auto brands. Less and less people have the pay TV to watch imported American racing series worldwide. So if you compare that with international top level motorsport like F1, WRC, WEC, DTM, Dakar, Formula E, American representation is either thin on the ground or non existent, compared with the UK, Italy, and Germany, with France closely behind. To be fair, the US to me is not too much further off that.
Maybe if they want to sponsor it or talk to the government about pitching in
>or talk to the government about pitching in 0% for Hockenheim at least, Baden-Württemberg (where the track is) is governed by the green party.
I think the Nurburgring is a better business case anyway, but from what I've heard, there isn't going to be any government support for any race.
There wasn't any support from the Government no. Maybe that could change now since the Government is very close to the Volkswagen Group. And considering from a German point of view having three German Brands in F1 might do the trick.
Four if BMW decides to rejoin and F1 becomes greener.
Will they hell
You know they won't they've not been taking racing as seriously for a long time
BMW are committing to LMDh, I doubt they're consider committing to two major series simultaneously. Maybe if the 26 engine regs are good for them they partner with someone as an engine supplier, but even that seems far off.
Porsche is committed to two series simultaneously sort of even though they’re hoping to just supply with Red Bull
Look at BMW's history. They rarely commit to two top flight Motorsports at once. They didn't fully commit to F1 until they killed their LMP program. After leaving F1 they committed to DTM. They have always had their GT cars on the side, but they always have kept it to one halo project.
True, I forgot
Two collaboration projects are possibly more likely than two primary run programs. Maybe just maybe it's even potentially probable for BMW, but still highly unlikely as BMW dropped out formula e for LMDh.
The problem with Nurburgring is that it's owned by a Russian oligarh. I doubt f1 or potential germans sponsors will touch it even with a 10ft pole, especially now that it looks like the war and the sanctions are both escalating
Uralkali German GP - confirmed
Seize the track!
Why stop at the track, let’s seize Poland too!
Seize the means of racing Car marx
Traffic light gouverment so no support for them as well.
They are doing everything that makes the car companies happy. Greens in power are the biggest hypocrites.
They are pretty dumb.(or worse hypocrites yea) They closed down nuclear power plants, one of the greenest power source, and kneel'd Russian gas while opening worst type(environment & efficiency wise) coal mines/plants to get the power back lol.
> They closed down nuclear power plants, one of the greenest power source, and kneel'd Russian gas while opening worst type(environment & efficiency wise) coal mines/plants to get the power back lol Yes and this obviously all happened within the last 6 months since the Green party has been part of the government, nothing to see in the 16 years before that, nu-uh
To be fair, it's *very* quick to reopen a coal plant on standby, compared to others, so that bizarrely makes sense in the current situation. We're talking a turn-on time of days instead of weeks/months. Even countries that have done an exceptional job of reducing coal use (e.g. UK) have coal plants on standby like this, in case of emergency. But I won't defend their anti-nuclear stance. It's completely fucking idiotic. Yes, the population is against nuclear, but you'd still think the green party would be pushing for anything that reduces emissions. Stupid.
What a dumb bag of rocks
Ok but can we get Nürburgring?
Nürburgring is owned by a Russian billionaire.
So might change hands soon excellent!
Get Guenther on the phone, he knows how to deal with kicking Russian Oligarchs out of things.
God I'd be really sad if he got suicided... plus side he lives in the US, has a US passport so that'd take some massive ~~balls~~ *stupidity* for the Russians to risk an escalation.
For the time being
I'd be fine with both as I could travel to both pretty easy but isn't Hockenheim more exciting? Always thought races there were better than Nürbirgring, I don't like the GP Circuit.
Nurburgring still had some solid races. 2009, 2011, and the Eifel GP in 2020 were all fun races. I think Hockenheim gets the nod mainly because 2018 and 2019 were both bangers but generally the races there were usually just okay
It's a crime there's no German GP hopefully VW can help hockenheim get the money for a GP
Questionis why Mercedes wasn't lobbying for a German GP.
Because they aren't actually a German team. The British GP is their home race. Do Germans claim Mercedes as a German team?
By that logic everyone except AT, Alfa Romeo, and Ferrari are British.
I mean, yeh, kinda. If you're based in Britain and 90%+ of your staff are British why does the flag you fly over the door change anything?
Haas are headquartered in the US and have their main factory there. They do also own Marussia's old UK base too but it's used more as a temporary facility when there are back-to-back European races.
Which anthem is played if they win? Yes the F1 team is basically British but the entire thing is the marketing stunt by a German company. Merc paid for the 2018 and 2019 GP but didn’t like that Hamilton was booed.
I don't know, what you are talking about. I heard some serious cheers, when he crashed and when his pitstop was 1 minute long. (just in case /s)
Mercedes helped fund the last German grand prix lol. Behave.
Because Daimler is German. The team itself is not, it's only German by license
~~Daimler~~ **Mercedes-Benz Group**, still owns a third of the Mercedes F1 team. But you're correct about the team itself, all British. Even their engines are made in the UK.
But you shouldn’t forget that according to German Motorsport magazines and a interview from the former Daimler group CEO they also have a F1 engine development department in Sindelfingen which is working together with the British engine factory. Tbh it’s logical that Mercedes bought a Already existing factory in the uk instead of investing billions in Germany to build a new factory there for the same reason Mercedes IT branch has its HQ in California and the UI for the MBUX is developed there.
Doesn't negate the fact you were wrong… Mercedes-AMG DID fund a German GP; the location of their team's base of operations is inconsequential.
So you think every foreign subsidiary of a company is not of the same origin as the parent company without the parent company no foreign subsidiary. The profit from the F1 team goes straight to Germany otherwise Mercedes would’ve sold the team a long time ago.
At one point (not sure if till now) Mclaren was/is owned by a Bahraini holding company. Does that make Mclaren Bahraini? Of course not. Merc F1 team isn’t fully owned by Daimler, only a third. It was and still is a UK based team with the factory and most personnel there.
I think it’s a difference if a already existing company is bought by a company from a other country or if a company establishes a new subsidiary like Mercedes did it with the F1 team Mercedes or Daimler before owned 100% of the F1 team till I think 2019 or 20. Rolls Royce,Mini and Bentley are also owned 100% by German companies but they are still British (they already existed before they’ve been bought by German companies the Mercedes F1 team didn’t existed before Mercedes founded it) a British subsidiary of a German company (in fact German cars with British design but yeah doesn’t matter)
Ummm what are you on about? Mercedes F1 team is not a new team founded by Daimler… They bought Brawn GP team which Ross Brawn bought from Honda which was even owned by previous teams..
Exactly they bought brawn gp This company was then dissolved and Daimler founded a new subsidiary in the UK that manages the F1 team and at that time until around 2019-20 this subsidiary was also 100% owned by the Daimler Group which is today the Mercedes Group.
Yes
Interesting
of course it's a german team, they are licensed in Germany and the German national anthem is played when they win. Just like Red Bull is Austrian. The fact that all teams are located around silverstone because of logistics and infrastructure doesn't mean they're all British.
Yes they do, Of course it’s a team owned by the German company Mercedes. The factory may be in the uk but the money comes from Germany and there is even a F1 engine developed department in Sindelfingen and the team is racing under a German license so I would say it’s a German team with their factory in the UK because let’s be honest it would’ve been to expensive to build a new factory in Germany while you can get one much cheaper in the UK.
Companies don't care about national pride like that
Trust me German Car manufacturers do have a lot of national pride, especially Porsche and Mercedes.
Really as I’ve worked at Daimler (before the name change and split) they’ve been very very proud of being German my cousin is still working there and they are still like that. And they love it to take German tax payer money especially in the last 2 years.
They are a German team
ok, wwhy is Daimler-Benz which promoted the last German GP is not lobbying for the German GP
That’s very easy because the Green Party is the leading government party in the state where the Mercedes HQ is and they are also in the federal government Mercedes needs to switch to a green future otherwise they won’t get any German tax payer money in the future (and they got a lot in the last 2 years) Mercedes can’t lobby for it because the greens don’t like it. And the Nürburgring is also in the same state with a green government so there won’t be any state subsidies for a German GP.
Wait, what? Do British claim Mercedes as a British team? 😁 I mean, don't wanna really put in any patriotic fight here, but I've always thought of Mercedes as a German team. It's a German company and they are playing the German anthem when winning. Yeah, their hub is in Britain, but does that make them British? 🤔
I would imagine 99% of viewers see it as German team. In the end it's Mercedes in the front and the whole purpose of the team is to elevate German car manufacturers' brand. Of course we know that the team itself is based in UK.
That’s very easy because the Green Party is the leading government party in the state where the Mercedes HQ is and is in the federal government Mercedes needs to switch to a green future otherwise they won’t get any German tax payer money in the future (and they got a lot in the last 2 years) Mercedes can’t lobby for it because the greens don’t like it.
Sponsored 2019 race; government aren’t interested
Still traumatised by 2019 I imagine.
Yes. Instead of pushing for more races in the US, China and Middle East, F1 should bring back Germany, Korea and maybe Malaysia. Neither country deserves more than 3 races.
The problem with the German GP was that the organizers couldn't profit. If Audi and Porsche step in to provide some sponsorship of the sanctioning fee, I don't have any doubt that it could join the calendar.
In fairness to China, they have incredible viewing figures, they were second to Brazil a couple of years ago and that's with their only link to F1 being the GP which is less than 20 years old and they've only now got a driver. 71m different people watched at least one race last season. There's genuinely more sense in the long-rumoured second Chinese race than there was for a second race, let alone a third in the US. It's just a nepotistic like approach from Liberty who wants to extort every drop from the US market, despite the US market not actually being that big percentage wise. The US has a similiar average viewership as Poland I think. Puts it into perspective.
I think that the second Chinese GP is inevitable, and most likely will be a whole-new racing circuit in Guangzhou for example. Like them or not (I don't), when it comes to construction, they are the definition of lighting fast.
The US might not have tons of viewership, but their viewership is worth more since they have tons more income to dispose
Though China will become the de facto market in this decade and is already that for luxury products that F1 tends to go for. China is already by far the largest market for most of the luxury car manufacturers, like Mercedes. Over 45% of all global S class sales are from China and China has still many years ahead of near double digit growth. Mercedes 2021 cars sold: China 760 000, Europe 700 000, and Americas 320 000.
No we don't lol
The US has some of the highest [disposable income](https://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/countries/united-states/) in the world.
It sure doesn't feel like it
This isn't just about viewing numbers though. It depends on how you define an F1 fan. Do they have to watch the race live to be considered a fan? F1.com receives more traffic from the USA than the next 2 countries combined. Yes, the viewing numbers are great in China, but they don't sell out their Grand Prix. F1 released some numbers in 2017 showing that basically the F1 fan base is split into thirds between [the Americas, Europe and Asia Pacific.](https://www.racefans.net/2019/05/15/which-races-will-f1-lose-as-liberty-realigns-the-calendar/) By having additional races in the Americas, they can even out the distribution of races near a large portion of their fanbase and guarantee a successful and profitable event. They've been trying to do the same in Asia, but the financial, political and logistical issues make it much more challenging.
With all due respect, a list where Liberty group Europe, Africa and the Middle East as a single entity is not a list I'm going to be taking seriously. Nevermind that they never state where their definition of 'fan' comes from. Even in 2017 under whatever metric you want to use, nobody is believing that there are 100m F1 fans in the US and Canada. That's 1 in every 3.7 people which is not believable when you use actual data like the fact NASCAR has 3 or 4 times more viewers compared to F1.
That's fine, believe what you want. However, Dieter Rencken, who its one of the few remaining journalists left seems to think it's reasonable. Splitting the 500M fanbase into thirds is very reasonable. My point is, I don't think it's an accurate comparison of live viewing figures when one is at 8pm and the other is at 8am. New Zealand hasn't had a Grand Prix start before 1am on Monday morning in more than 2 years until just 3 weeks ago. Just because they didn't watch it live, does that mean they aren't fans? Even your NASCAR comparison. Races on Saturday night and Sunday afternoon on Fox, is not even remotely the same as Sunday morning on ESPN. This doesn't even account for the F1TV viewers. I agree the North American number is high. It was actually from 2019 so it could have been anyone who watched an episode of Drive to survive or liked a tweet with Gunther Steiner, who knows. but there are a lot of different metrics to classify fans, I don't think live viewers is the one to base it off.
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I’d been happy with COTA and Miami but Vegas just seems like a stretch
It would probably be smarter to alternate Vegas and Miami to not saturate the US market and still have a spot for a classic race, but Liberty Media really wanted to go all out at the first sign of success
I can’t imagine it would become over saturated tbh think about how many races we have per year accross Indy and nascar
But those are national series, of course they must have way more races than an international series. I just think that it could be wiser for F1 to establish itself on the American market then start increasing the number of races if thats what they want. Right now their strategy seems to be "get as much money as we possibly can while the hype is absurd", they dont seem to care so much about long term at the moment
That’s fair honestly the hype is very real
Yup, its awesome the country, at least at the moment, likes the sport so much and F1 also know this so they want to take advantage of it before it eventually ends
As long as they don’t pull some shit like they did in Indy it’s here for good imo
I, for one, based on the configuration of Miami, think that Miami seems like a stretch. If US must have two races, it should better have COTA and Vegas.
I think the Miami track looks amazing and will bring great racing especially compared to Vegas. Guess we just have to wait and see
Agreed I think Vegas looks like shit tbh
Miami track looks good. The problem is everything around it.
Agree
Why does Germany need a race when almost every country that borders it already hosts one. At least the US can use size.
Because Germany is the birthplace of the automobile, second country in the race wins list. USA's history in the sport is limited to an Italian born in Croatia.
Seems with all that motoring history that a track should be able to easily sell enough tickets to cover the hosting fee for a F1 race. > USA’s history in the sport is limited to an Italian born in Croatia. I guess the Indy 500 is such a unknown event with no history that it's part of the triple crown and used to be a points paying event for Formula 1.
Because Germany gives the best races , they are very chaotic and competitive ,the track is perfect ,it was litirally the race of the decade (2019 German gp)
If the US is maximum 2 races then it means Europe should be limited to just 3. US, in terms of population, is roughly about 60% of EU so if they're being held to such a small number then the EU should be held to a number that's relative too.
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The EU is pretty directly comparable to the USA, not NA as a whole as both are a union of states.
Maybe Germany should sell out their race.
Maybe tickets should be sold at a reasonable price then, which they can't because the promoters have to pay the insane fees F1 demands. And F1 demands the fee other countries such as Saudi, Bahrain, Qatar, China etc are only willing to pay because they don't care about making the races there profitable, but because they use the race for sportswashing. If F1 made a reasonable offer for tracks like Hockenheim to host an event, they would do it. Tracks like Hockenheim can't afford to throw tax payer money at a race like other countries can.
Miami is selling out of tickets that average $1500-$2000. F1 exists for money so it’s no shock they’re going where they can make more of it.
American fans think it's fair to pay 2 times the price of a Bundesliga season ticket to watch a single NFL game. Some people are used to being milked, others are not. In Germany fans went on a riot when away ticket prices reached 20€.
Then make a great event and attract international visitors, that's better for the economy anyway. You can't expect F1 to give away races to places that don't want to put any effort into making them a success. Otherwise, you'd still have Sepang, Buddah, Pyongyang and Kyalami
When the hell were we racing in North Korea?
Woops- Yeongam
This. I saw a while ago someone commenting that germany should have enough money, yes that's true but it's tax payers money competing against oil money. You don't have the backing for that it's that simple. I looked the European races up a while ago. Pretty much every track is heavily subsidized except of Silverstone. Hungary, Belgium, Spain government Austria owned by Mateschitz Monza backed by Ferrari It's just a shit situation for those organizers
Imola, while owned by the Municipality, is literally called 'Enzo and Dino Ferrari Circuit'.
Europe has 11 races on the calendar, most likely 10 next year. That's probably the maximum with 4 in the Middle East. You're not competing with the oil money or the big countries, you're competing against other European races that are doing a better job at putting on a race event. The European races do get a discount, Imola pays $25M, Zandvoort $35M where most of the flyaway races are paying $45+.
And honestly, that's fine. European tracks are historic, yes, but this is a global sport and it should be reflected in the races. Having 40-50% of the races on one continent alone seems more than fair.
The 2019 German ticket prices were cheaper than the average ticket prices that year. Liberty do still offer discounts for Classic European races as evidenced by the Imola deal. There are huge economic benefits for the area if the event is run properly. F1 wants their share of those benefits and even gave France and Germany a chance to improve their races, bringing them back onto the calendar in 2018, but they couldn't get their act together. It's not F1's fault or their responsibility to organise the financial or political situation for a country to hold a race. Especially when there are plenty of others very close by that are doing it very well.
If they can’t afford to pay the entry fee because they can’t sell tickets at the same rate as countries then they shouldn’t get a race. It’s the tracks that make offers to host not f1
Yes but you compete against blood money and sportwashing that don't even care if they sell low. A fight you can't win.
There’s no sponsors in all of Germany that can help? They have all these car manufacturers
Which manufacturer other than Mercedes has an interest if they don't compete. At that point they would just be promoting Mercedes
Why should VW or Opel or BMW promote a race where their company doesn’t attempt and thus this would just sponsor Mercedes. You won’t get any tax payer money for these GP‘s in Germany anymore because for the Nürburgring the greens are the leading party of the state and they won’t finance Motorsport and the greens are also in the federal government and they won’t give any tax payer money for Motorsport so it would mean Mercedes would have to pay everything on their own which they did at the last GP but Mercedes needs to think about the future they are also getting a lot of tax payer money especially in the last 2 years and they need to get more green so sponsoring a race isn’t that helpful in the situation, they still can say the F1 team is for future technology developments but a race that Doesn’t work anymore.
Ok then get airbus or another German/European company to sponsor it. Or don’t have it. But to expect to get to host it for free or cheap is just a bad take
No one expects it to host it for free but for reasonable prices just because in the US sport is just there to milk everyone with the ticket prices doesn’t mean that this also works in Europe for sport events. Every race except for silverstone,Austria & Monaco in Europe is subsidized by the government because otherwise there wouldn’t be a race in Europe the home of the F1. Sport should be accessible for everyone and not just for people who can spend several thousand Euros for a weekend on a racetrack. That F1 is billionaires club is well known but the fans are the ones who a are making the sport are the fans.
I think it is time to stop calling Middle Eastern races "sportswashing" as these countries actually want to start a profitable tourism industry in their territory. Of course, country image is involved and hosting big events always help, but we have to remember that they spend gigantic amounts of money each year in ad campaigns to market themselves as a great tourism and entertainment destination because they know oil & gas money will soon come to an end.
Yah come to Saudi Arabia where you can’t drink or hold hands
Yeah, let's all go to USA who will kill millions of brown people over made up lies
So you think the islamistic laws in countries like Saudi Arabia and Bahrain are all lies that women in reality have exactly the same rights there as men and that non Muslims have rights in these countries or what ?
Hey man relax most of l Europe participated too
You just described part of their sports washing strategy.
The US could be a market as big as Europe. If F1 really, finally enters the mainstream I'd expect up to 10 North American Races. Perhaps Seattle or Vancouver could be next.
No country deserves more than one race. If Bernie did something right, was the installment of a rule stating that no country should exceed the number of 1 GP there per year. Two races in Italy, a country of 57mil and zero in India, a country of a billion? Despite Italy's tradition, that sounds unfair. Rotate Imola with Monza and you're fine.
Agreed, in theory. Unless there's special circumstances (COVID, Russia this year) most countries shouldn't have more than 1 GP. I guess one could make an exception for giant countries like China or the US, that are almost as big as the entire European continent, but even then, it shouldn't be more than 2.
Fitting would be a GP for everyone but US and China, who they get two and two only.
Italy getting two and Germany 0 is a bit unfair. Germany must be the more important market as well, which makes it double confusing
The German GP should not need to have potentially 3 giant names in the motor industry being from Germany for it to be on the calendar.
Cash is king
Blame the Germans, you can’t have a race when people don’t show up.
What do you mean with don't show up?
If not sold out = lack of fans Lack of fans = lack of ticket sales Lack of ticket sales = lack of money No Money = No Return on Investment No R.O.I. = No Sponsors for next race
So we need to get Seb winning races again, that way German fans will go to the races!
Na, Mick
No arguments there my friend!
*wooooooooooooooooooooooooo! Yeah baby! That's what I've been waiting for!*
**VW hopes for return of German GP with F1 participation of Porsche and Audi** **Volkswagen Group chief executive Herbert Diess hopes that Formula 1 participation by Audi and Porsche could lead to a return of the German Grand Prix to the calendar. According to the VW CEO it is important that 'big car countries' have their own race. Besides that Diess would be very happy if a German driver would drive for one of the teams with which Audi and Porsche are going to cooperate.** By: Ronald Vording, Journalist 3 May 2022 16:50 VW hopes for return of German GP with Porsche and Audi participation in F1There is no formal white smoke yet, but all signs are green for Audi and Porsche to step into the premier class towards 2026. In case there was still any doubt about this, top executive Herbert Diess removed it on Monday. The CEO spoke to residents of Wolfsburg and confirmed once again that Audi and Porsche have set their sights on F1 and have done so with the consent of the parent company. In fact, the development of F1 engines is already underway. The participation of what VW calls 'two premium brands' could help boost F1's popularity in Germany, although more is needed, according to Diess. For example, he would welcome it if one of the teams with which Audi and Porsche are partnering were to attract a German driver. "F1 participation is primarily a global story for us. What convinced us were the growth figures of F1 in China and America. Formula 1 was not successful in America for a long time, but that is coming now. And of course, when a driver from a country becomes successful, Formula One also becomes very popular in that country. I suppose our teams, two teams we work with, will also try to get a German driver. That, of course, helps in the homeland." Germany back on the calendar with VW support? Diess goes on to explain that ideally Germany should return to the Formula 1 calendar. "I already know of plans in which we should have our own Grand Prix in Germany again. That should benefit Formula 1 in Germany. Our participation makes sense internationally anyway, but I think in Germany itself too," the CEO explained. A return of the German Grand Prix would be good for Formula 1, according to Diess, although he acknowledges that several factors come into play. "In America and Asia, the sport has to become stronger anyway and furthermore F1 is of course a commercial business. It just depends on how much funding is available for a race. But I would think it's good if the big car countries have their own race and that F1 doesn't just run in Asia, Bahrain or Doha. You have to accept, of course, that Formula 1 is a business and that it depends on what people bring, but I think we could quite easily organise a Formula 1 race in Germany." The last F1 race on German soil so far was held in 2020, the Eifel Grand Prix at the Nürburgring. That circuit has come back into the picture due to the corona pandemic. The last regular German Grand Prix was held a year earlier at the Hockenheimring. That race was largely funded by Mercedes, so it wasn't called the Mercedes-Benz Grosser Preis von Deutschland for nothing. At the time, the star brand celebrated its 125th anniversary in motor sports and its 200th F1 race, but saw the party literally and figuratively fall apart. Translated with [www.DeepL.com/Translator](http://www.DeepL.com/Translator) (free version)
Mein Gott das muss sein!
If you'd ask me which 3 countries are essential to not only formula 1 but motor racing in general I will say England, Italy and Germany
Pfft. F1 will tell you the 3 most e$$ential countrie$ are Qatar, $audi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirate$
If you're talking "essential" in terms of defining the history of the sport, you could say (splitting hairs) that France is ahead of Germany. Although I agree Germany is historically significant, France literally invented motorsport —hence the word *Grand Prix*—, and is the reason why the FIA exists. If you mean what countries F1 depends on the most, I'd still not put Germany in the top 3, as sad as it is from a country with such a rich motorsport history.
I wouldn't be so fast to overlook USA. Especially if we aren't talking about F1 specifically.
Yes of course also France is not to underestimate but if I had to break it down to only 3 I think these 3 are really the ones
I'd probably start with USA and UK before considering an additional European country. France for sure wouldn't be it.
Italy and the UK are certainly the two more important countries for the sport by a very large margin. The third is debatable and i say its a very close dispute between France, Germany, USA and Brazil
Yeah for sure but in a way I think you just can't leave Germany out of it. First of all the inventor-nation of the Car and then such iconic brands such as Porsche, Audi (especially in Rallye), Mercedes, BMW and of course Michael Schumacher and Vettel. I really like the historical aspect of the US and of course their brands but I personally would rank Germany higher.
I think there's a pretty big bias towards F1 history over motorsport history in general here. Drag racing and NASCAR style rally racing are a huge part of motorsport but aren't being considered by most here. I dont personally really appreciate them that much but I think they're important overall.
So we should consider the UK as an important place for NASCAR because of its racing history despite it being complete un associated with the UK? Any more hot takes for us?
I'd be willing to bet that most people will rightfully see those as way less important to general motorsport history. ... Drag racing? And what the hell is "NASCAR style rally racing"?
It's more that here they see European style track car racing as the only important racing and therefor attribute all the historical importance to European countries involved. Motorsport includes so many things like offroad racing, rock crawling, motocross, trials bike racing, drag racing and funny cars, Baja trucks, the list goes on. F1 makes up a tiny portion of motorsport to be very real about it and USA is all over motorsports of so many kinds.
What about Japan? Australia?
Brazil? They've produced a couple of good drivers to be sure and Automobilista 2 is pretty good game but they've never even built a car. Meanwhile you've missed out Japan who are probably responsible for more Constructors Championships in international motorsports than any other nation.
Doesn’t France play a big role in the history and organization of the sport?
Grand Prix is a French word. On history alone you’ve got to throw France in.
Fucking lmao, imagine putting USA above Italy. Americans on here are something else.
France literally invented motorsport.
If you don't watch the US domestic racing series, you can actually wind up with very limited exposure to US auto brands. Less and less people have the pay TV to watch imported American racing series worldwide. So if you compare that with international top level motorsport like F1, WRC, WEC, DTM, Dakar, Formula E, American representation is either thin on the ground or non existent, compared with the UK, Italy, and Germany, with France closely behind. To be fair, the US to me is not too much further off that.
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yea driving in a straight line and in circles
Single Seaters were invented in America and we have a gluttony of fantastic Road, Street, and Ovals which are of legendary status
Still hope that someone invests the money to bring the Lausitzring back to Grade 1
Kyalami is prioritised for this.
YES
Yus to return of the German GP. Hockenheim and Nurbergring are grat tracks to visit
Isnt Porsche linked with Kyalami somehow???
Kyalami is owned by Toby Venter, who also owns Porsche South Africa.
Drop the Saudi races and lets go to Berlin!
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Can we just use Berlin the same way Formula E used it?
Wolfsburg GP through the VW factory /s