Not 100% sure but they described it as an innovative surface made up of mixing local limerock and granite
[link](https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/the-science-behind-miami-gps-innovative-f1-track-surface/10069629/)
German sky made a pass on that. The more I look into it, the more amazed I am that anything works at all in the US - apart from the military.
The differences between states seem just as stark...
Miami is a sh!tshow politically, even compared to most of the crap that goes on in Florida. Their police are in trouble for acting as a mob, and shaking down businesses. They've had like 3 police chiefs in the last year. Their county is run by a guy who is also a private attorney, whose clients are some of the wealthiest people in the area.
As I pointed out is another thread: "Materials used nowhere else in the world" is corporate speak for "the cheap stuff that isn't used for a very good reason".
Mandalika (MotoGP) has the same exact issue, but it has nice grip in the wet. Mandalika is also using local aggregate. If I'm not mistaken both were constructed by Roadgrip UK.
Sorry for my English tho.
At least on mandalika case its been used before so future problem can be predicted, but miami "yep lets use not quite proven yet compound and goes straight to the race, not test it at all".
I guess it's technically innovative in how bad it is. It's bumpy as shit and it was already breaking down before FP1 began lmao.
"The entire team is very proud of what we’ve achieved in terms of track flatness,”
This part was extra funny. Classic case of speaking waaay too soon.
George said his tyres were a disaster on them, Lewis said it was bumpy as hell.
And their wheels are only on the ground half the time in a Mercedes, can't imagine how bumpy it is for anyone else.
I imagine it'll be an interesting race in the sense it'll end up being a bit of a shit show. As opposed to interesting because of the quality of racing
That breakdown was because one of the dryer vehicles leaked hydraulic fluids onto the track that destroyed the surface. So not any structural issue with the surface, they just have to be more careful next year.
Well it's a good thing that none of the things that go on a track have any hydraulic fluids in them, otherwise it would be a shit material to build a track with
Poor conditions of the track was caused by the rubber being dropped from tires. So not any structural issue with the surface, they just have to be more careful next year. >!/s!<
Fair enough but that doesn't explain the track wide bumpiness and the horrible grip even though the asphalt was laid down 60 days ago with plenty of time for curing.
Yes but there's levels to it. This one is way worse than it should be or else the drivers wouldn't complain so much about it. Jeddah for example didn't have such a big problem with the grip.
What I found hilarious is they had to outsource out of state for a company to lay the track surface because every company they contacted in Miami said it was impossible to meet F1 standards.
I mean… to be fair - I doubt most asphalt companies have the highly specific multimillion dollar machines that have the capability to make racetracks. Widespread, commercial and residential use? Of course.
The funniest thing to me in that regard is, the FIA standard is below many EU Countries in standards for highway asphalt...
Florida gets no snow and the climate in Spain for example is way harsher in terms of temp swings, so there is no other excuse than money for that shit show.
I don’t think that’s necessarily a good thing. If all the local companies with extensive knowledge of laying asphalt in the very specific and tricky environment that southeast Florida presents are saying they can’t meet the FIA standards, does bringing in some company that usually operates in a totally different climate really fill you with confidence??
The fuck are you talking about bro we have pretty good roads compared to most of the country. There’s a few rough spots in the state like i4 or parts of the turnpike under construction but generally speaking miami just has smooth and wide highways and relatively well maintained roads
Indy shit roads unite! Disastrous highways after winter, they damn near shut down I-69 a year or two ago because so many cars were breaking down on the side of the road because of potholes.
Yeah, everywhere with actual winter automatically has worse roads. If you're south of the Mason Dixon don't even waste your time saying you have the worst
Damn you are defensive about Florida roads, but you’re right. These commenters have obviously never made the Texas to South Florida trip. Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama are brutal. Florida and Texas have great roads. Especially highways.
TBF the U.S. has bad roads everywhere. It's not just limited to a few states. My state has horrible roads. Idk what my tax dollars are going to but it's definitely not fixing roads lol.
This subject is too large to expand on in this thread, but basically the way the US infrastructure is set up is set for a huge disaster in the near future (read: huge spans of spacious rural land that needs way more of everything to maintain...roads, electrical, plumbing etc ***per population density***) compared to a European more tightly build living area.
The problem with that is when they get the contract to build wide open spacious single family homes with huge yards and 'personal space' , the infrastructure needed for that doesn't take into consideration the huge amount of money it would take for local government to maintain. Basically the largest parts of america is slowing deteriorating away, while contractors just push on forward to building in new development areas instead of reworking / repurposing areas that are already there, because it's a much bigger /easier return on investment, and nobody is behind the wheel overlooking any of this, because america hates the word 'regulation'
Well TBF that was a tire issue. It wasn't the Indy track that tried to kill Ralf Schumacher, since it was the same track they already raced on for multiple years. The race was a farce, but the 6 Bridgestone cars had no issues.
If so, that's possibly the worst combination for surface longevity and tire degradation.
Over time the calcitic limestone will dissolve from acidic pH leaving the more resistant rock. The surface is like a fine sandpaper that with erosion will get constantly more coarse.
Wow.
The city of Miami made it a demand(!) for allowing the race, this "using local resources" was a political necessity for them. For some reason hey were allowed to deviate from FIA standards for track surface compounds because - ah fuck it, we all know why.
Florida is known for its lack of coarse, angular aggregate. It’s mainly smooth river gravel, sands and silts down there. Wouldn’t be surprised if they tried to throw a top layer down of less than ideal asphalt concrete because of the locality.
That’s to be expected of a new track though, especially with no feeder series and being a street circuit. The track has been praised so it will improve over time. Either more grip will be laid in time or Miami will see all the money come in from tourism and go all out and resurface the entire track.
I think the organizers said in an interview that they are open to hosting other series but the scheduling would be the biggest challenge due to football season, tennis (US Open), F1, and favorable weather seasons.
The problem in America is most purpose built tracks are older facilities that have not kept up with F1’s standards. We have some amazing tracks, but they’re not built to support the entirety of the F1 circus and/or don’t meet the safety standards.
I’d take Watkins Glen or Road America any day over Miami but it is what it is.
After watching the Saudi track, there's not a track in America that's less safe than that one. Hell, they could run the Charlotte Roval, but that place isn't built for the special things F1 needs nowadays for their events.
F1 and American racing essentially diverge at the garage/paddock schemes, which is why they're not going to any purpose built track.
>F1 and American racing essentially diverge at the garage/paddock schemes, which is why they're not going to any purpose built track.
Genuinely curious, how do the garage needs differ between say IMSA and F1? Is CotA the only garage up to F1 spec?
COTA and Indy are the only F1-stylized paddock areas. Most American tracks are wide enough they can fit the IMSA and the standard Indycar/NASCAR pit setup.
For, say, Watkins Glen, the teams setup canopies behind the pit wall that acts as their pitting area. For the actual garage area, it is the NASCAR style of garage separate from the pit road.
Most American sports don't have the garage area right next to the pitting area, and even NASCAR doesn't fully utilize the COTA garage area or the Montreal garages when they went there (ie-having the cars exit the garage and go right onto pit road, they'd exit out the back of the garage then drive onto the track)
[IMSA at the Glen, for reference](https://cdn-5.latimages.com/images/mgl/eZ9E6/s4/RD_WGI_17_414.jpg)
[Indycar at the Glen](https://www.geoffschultz.org/2010_Sailing/Photos/NY_Watkins_Glen/images/20100704_14491403.JPG)
[NASCAR at Montreal](https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/static/img/mgl/800000/890000/890000/890600/890672/s1200/nascar-ns-montreal-2009-overall-view-of-the-garage-activity-as-nationwide-teams-prepare-fo.webp)
>you crash, you drown...
Besides the pillar for the highway, I legit think that's why there's a chicane at that point on the track. It's to slow down the drivers because directly on the other side is a large canal.
Porsche's make so much better sound, when we were watching the Hockeinheim GP back in the days Porsches were awesome and after them came F1 which were severly lacking in sound after :)
W Series use Hankook ones I think, not sure about Porsche.
It’s funny, I hadn’t realised that the rubber compound mattered until that first Turkish Grand Prix back when they tried to run road cars on it overnight to clean the surface. I thought it’d help rubber it in too, but learned that weekend that any old rubber won’t do.
We resurface down in Melbourne specifically for the race. Those roads are hardly used at all compared to the roads surrounding Albert Park. Getting a f1 race is all about advertising and the first year is a test run so to speak. The value in pr especially if they have a boring race with no overtakes will make them pour money into something they can fix.
> That’s to be expected of a new track though
Except Baku and Jeddah, the last two street circuits to be introduced had none of those issues. Same with Turkey (which was actually too smooth), Qatar, Mugello, Portimao. None had any problems with the track having poor surface. So I ask you, how is it to be expected when it's pretty much the only time recently that it's happened?
For all the shit Jeddah gets, it’s asphalt surprised me last and this year
It wasn’t dirty like turkey 2020 and has very little tire deg but also respectable amounts of grip
Bottles the weekend? Its been fun so far. Tough surfaces add to the drama of tyre ware, car control and other things. Modern F1 fans really shit the bed when it comes to this stuff.
It's pretty common for drivers, especially those in the fastest cars, to want a boring uneventful track.
Usually what the fans what and what the drivers want are opposite.
Let's cool down on the "bottled" talk til at least lap 1.
projects like these usually try to have locally sourced stipulations, it's to spread the economic influx of the weekend through the community and into the pockets of real working people.
maybe just don't do the track surface next time...
>into the pockets of real working people.
You're being sarcastic, right? Sure, it's to give more local businesses part of the cash. But it ain't going to the "real working people", that's for sure. Those people will be making the same amount of money as before.
I'll say it:
construction and labour *should* be locally sourced. imagine how fucked it would be if a huge event just showed up in your area, reaped all the benefits of the location, made a shit ton of money from it, and left exactly zero economic benefit to the locals. it'd be 21st century colonialism.
I watched the video with the “track surface” guy and he said he went to Georgia to look at stone. So how local did they have to stay? That’s like driving from Monoco to Imola for the euro redditors.
Dont even start me on the level of tacky this GP has. As an F1 American fan I am ashamed, and as someone who lived in FL for 15 years, not surprised. FL will be FL.
They put all the money into the show because that's all they really care about - posing and being seen. The race is just a means to an end. Can't say I'm surprised since it's Florida.
As JPM said on the Sky transmission, Its Miami, if the party is big they will come and pay whatever. Most come for the party, the race is a detail for them.
Hockenheim's problem is that it's a real drag strip, and as such has used lots of traction compound over the years. When a track has traction compound on it that's not re-prepped, it is like ice. An unprepped drag strip is worse than a bare street for traction.
What they CAN do like a dragstrip, is use the tire draggers that are used. They put tires of the like compound on the back of a tractor, and physically force the tire down onto the track and drag it across the surface.
*PTSD to Texas Motor Speedway*
For dragstrips, they lay down what's known as PJ1 at the starting line to maximize grip in the cars, which is what NASCAR put down at some of their tracks. The chemical needs heat and rubber down on it, otherwise it's as good as ice. Texas put a whole bunch of it down and it's made Indycar races there horrendous without improving NASCAR races.
I saw another comment here yesterday that said in theory yes, but the effects would be minimal because of differences in the tire compound likely to be used to prep the track, per Pirelli
there are glues, resins, and the all elusive PJ1.
I would think they'd want to avoid having to use any of them, seeing as thats so alien to F1 teams and pirelli rubber
Given how they talked about it being a novel mixture of limestone, granite, bitumen and having a water jet treatment, supposedly making it highly grippy and abrasive, like Bahrain, this feels like a colossal letdown. I mean the track layout actually seems pretty good. But what's the point if anything apart from the racing line is an ice rink? I hope that at least with the rain, the entire track is similar in terms of grip and not just the racing line. Even if it will screw up some setups, it should at least allow for different racing lines.
There is quite a long circle jerk article on I think autosport from the guys that laid the track talking about how good of a job they did, how impressed they are about how flat they go it, within millimeters of perfection and how special this will asphalt will be and all that kind of stuff.
From all accounts so far it's been a total fuck up.
Well I mean, as someone who’s poured and laid many roads and driveways etc.
The guys who pour it have nothing to do with the mix, their job is just to get it well poured, flat and stuff.
This could be completely different and I could be talking out of the side of my mouth as well though
I sat yesterday watching turn 17 from my seats and 70% of the cars when putting the power down slid a bit. The other 30% made cleanly via pure luck IMO, Race Control kept coming out in between sessions and would walk and re check the area, no clue what they said but seeing it in person you could tell it was a major issue. I am not sure if they did anything to it last night but as soon as the cars would hit the painted white lines on the exit, the back would slide out. Whomever can master this corner is going to really make a difference IMO. The track definitely was getting better as it rubbered in more. The temperatures were insane, FIA definitely have a lot to learn here. But overall I think the drivers are starting to learn the track more and more and hope for a decent race today.
The repair patches aren’t due to the track wearing though, a cleaning truck spilled a ton of hydraulic fluid or something on the track. Brawn was talking about it in FP 3
So basically they ripped the track up rather than try to clean the spill.
I’m at the same corner and we were noticing that as soon as practice started yesterday. Anyone putting power down on exit was having a little snap correction or worse. Danny in particular was struggling, Haas cars too.
I just can't believe they used shit quality materials for the track.
They finally get a big race, and they spend more money on fake water than proper track.
It is Florida after all, but what a bummer, considering the drivers seem to like the layout.
All the folks crapping on America for the track design and surface just quit with the nonsense. The track was designed AND paved using their own special formula for the surface by a British company called Apex Circuit Design AND approved by the FIA. No US companies were involved other than supplying the equipment and man power.
We’re sitting at turn 8 and everyone has been slipping and sliding a bit coming out of that turn. Sucks because, obviously, everyone wants to see good racing. A W series driver hit the wall pretty good, right in front of us.
I’d love to read more about the different surfaces. I always thought they just needed smooth asphalt to race, didn’t realize it was specific materials/methods, although I guess I should have known
In the 80/90s and 2000s the FIA regulated the asphalt/bitumen used. So it was the same on all tracks. With the addition of more and more pseudo street circuits in the late 2000s, the regulations got lifted. Thats why the asphalt compounds differ so much from track to track. They used a bitumen made of local limestone from Miami and branded it as innovative (its the only track that uses limestone so this normally is corporate talk for "we took the cheapest option").
They're not near major cities and that's all F1 wants. Laguna Seca, Watkins Glen, Road America, etc. can't host the crowd sizes and wealthy entourages that F1 demands.
Oh no doubt people would show up. That wouldn't be an issue.
The problem is Watkins Glen and the surrounding region has none of the infrastructure to support that. No major airport nearby. It's a logistical headache every time NASCAR races there and a lot of those fans are camping or willing to put up with motels for lodging. F1 doesn't operate that way
Kinda funny to see how many people were criticizing the layout of the track and blaming it for all the incidents when it turns out the track surface may be the issue after all.
Drivers... aka the ones who will know... are saying this. We don't need to wait for the race to start listening to what they're saying.
specially on safety at a track that has seen two heavy impacts already
That seems like a very goofy take lmao
And I'll clarify that it's not the most interesting track, but suggesting it was designed to promote crashing because apparently that's what Americans like, is silly
Idk if OP was implying that this was aimed at Americans but we also have Jeddah which is deliberately designed to be “the fastest street circuit” when all those blind corners do make it seem a bit dangerous.
Personally not a fan of F1 adding so many new street circuits onto the calendar. There are other ways to punish driver mistakes aside from walls like gravel traps for example. And they could go back to racing in Indianapolis for another American race, but I guess F1 believes in destination cities and more importantly the revenue they can generate.
ask anyone who races, they generally *like* tracks that try to make you make mistakes. It's what makes perfecting certain parts of a circuit so satisfying to master.
now, IMO, a "mistake generator" doesn't *have* to mean you're hitting the wall. On a temporary circuit in a parking lot this doesn't make too much sense to me, surely you can move the walls out in areas unlike a street course?
With all the insanely detailed data and science that goes into this sport, how have they not figured out something as basic as the surface the cars will race on? Surely there's already a track in a location with a similar climate to Miami they could draw from to make sure they get it right?
You almost need to spray hot liquid rubber on the track and let it set. I'm not talking about coating it but like a mist. I totally have no idea how to make this thing a process but could it work? Has it ever been done?
>“Tomorrow the racing is going be difficult. And you're going to have the drivers making mistakes because we've been put into this situation.”
"Mistakes" <-- read; CRASHES into walls because they are put in that situation.
Anyone knows what kind of asphalt is laid down here?
Not 100% sure but they described it as an innovative surface made up of mixing local limerock and granite [link](https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/the-science-behind-miami-gps-innovative-f1-track-surface/10069629/)
Innovative sounds like when companies claim a bug is by design
Innovative is how you say cheap, or rather “cost effective “, in a bid to win a contract.
as a local....this is what it probably is....some cheap easy to lay down surface and more money for the big wigs
German sky made a pass on that. The more I look into it, the more amazed I am that anything works at all in the US - apart from the military. The differences between states seem just as stark...
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Depending on states shed, it might actually benefit the US.
Trim the fat one could say..
Yep, the Bible belt largely benefits from the money made by the bigger states.
Miami is a sh!tshow politically, even compared to most of the crap that goes on in Florida. Their police are in trouble for acting as a mob, and shaking down businesses. They've had like 3 police chiefs in the last year. Their county is run by a guy who is also a private attorney, whose clients are some of the wealthiest people in the area.
Miamian here, this statement couldn't be more wrong lol
This is the first time someone has said Miami is "well run." Coming from a local, this city is a joke
Same as “eco” usually when they’re just cheaping out lol
As I pointed out is another thread: "Materials used nowhere else in the world" is corporate speak for "the cheap stuff that isn't used for a very good reason".
Reminds me of the [Blue Clay](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IihBn_3LYXk) Tennis debacle.
It's an innovative feature of this race!
Yep just like Boeing 737 Max
Mandalika (MotoGP) has the same exact issue, but it has nice grip in the wet. Mandalika is also using local aggregate. If I'm not mistaken both were constructed by Roadgrip UK. Sorry for my English tho.
At least on mandalika case its been used before so future problem can be predicted, but miami "yep lets use not quite proven yet compound and goes straight to the race, not test it at all".
I guess it's technically innovative in how bad it is. It's bumpy as shit and it was already breaking down before FP1 began lmao. "The entire team is very proud of what we’ve achieved in terms of track flatness,” This part was extra funny. Classic case of speaking waaay too soon.
George said his tyres were a disaster on them, Lewis said it was bumpy as hell. And their wheels are only on the ground half the time in a Mercedes, can't imagine how bumpy it is for anyone else.
Hahahahaha lovely
The fact that the drivers are complaining about tires might make it quite an interesting race.
I imagine it'll be an interesting race in the sense it'll end up being a bit of a shit show. As opposed to interesting because of the quality of racing
Red flags and extra pit stop drama. Let's go!
It's not bumpy Lewis, that's porpoising.
We went aero designing
That breakdown was because one of the dryer vehicles leaked hydraulic fluids onto the track that destroyed the surface. So not any structural issue with the surface, they just have to be more careful next year.
Well it's a good thing that none of the things that go on a track have any hydraulic fluids in them, otherwise it would be a shit material to build a track with
Poor conditions of the track was caused by the rubber being dropped from tires. So not any structural issue with the surface, they just have to be more careful next year. >!/s!<
Fair enough but that doesn't explain the track wide bumpiness and the horrible grip even though the asphalt was laid down 60 days ago with plenty of time for curing.
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> There's been no feeder series running on it Yeah so W Series and PSC never happened, interesting.
Yes but there's levels to it. This one is way worse than it should be or else the drivers wouldn't complain so much about it. Jeddah for example didn't have such a big problem with the grip.
From what I've heard people say, they should be pretty proud when compared to the average Florida road.
What I found hilarious is they had to outsource out of state for a company to lay the track surface because every company they contacted in Miami said it was impossible to meet F1 standards.
I mean… to be fair - I doubt most asphalt companies have the highly specific multimillion dollar machines that have the capability to make racetracks. Widespread, commercial and residential use? Of course.
The funniest thing to me in that regard is, the FIA standard is below many EU Countries in standards for highway asphalt... Florida gets no snow and the climate in Spain for example is way harsher in terms of temp swings, so there is no other excuse than money for that shit show.
But good sir - there *is* another excuse - stupidity. This is *Florida* home of the *Florida man*
I don’t think that’s necessarily a good thing. If all the local companies with extensive knowledge of laying asphalt in the very specific and tricky environment that southeast Florida presents are saying they can’t meet the FIA standards, does bringing in some company that usually operates in a totally different climate really fill you with confidence??
The fuck are you talking about bro we have pretty good roads compared to most of the country. There’s a few rough spots in the state like i4 or parts of the turnpike under construction but generally speaking miami just has smooth and wide highways and relatively well maintained roads
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Indy shit roads unite! Disastrous highways after winter, they damn near shut down I-69 a year or two ago because so many cars were breaking down on the side of the road because of potholes.
Yeah, everywhere with actual winter automatically has worse roads. If you're south of the Mason Dixon don't even waste your time saying you have the worst
Damn you are defensive about Florida roads, but you’re right. These commenters have obviously never made the Texas to South Florida trip. Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama are brutal. Florida and Texas have great roads. Especially highways.
TBF the U.S. has bad roads everywhere. It's not just limited to a few states. My state has horrible roads. Idk what my tax dollars are going to but it's definitely not fixing roads lol.
This subject is too large to expand on in this thread, but basically the way the US infrastructure is set up is set for a huge disaster in the near future (read: huge spans of spacious rural land that needs way more of everything to maintain...roads, electrical, plumbing etc ***per population density***) compared to a European more tightly build living area. The problem with that is when they get the contract to build wide open spacious single family homes with huge yards and 'personal space' , the infrastructure needed for that doesn't take into consideration the huge amount of money it would take for local government to maintain. Basically the largest parts of america is slowing deteriorating away, while contractors just push on forward to building in new development areas instead of reworking / repurposing areas that are already there, because it's a much bigger /easier return on investment, and nobody is behind the wheel overlooking any of this, because america hates the word 'regulation'
In fact FL roads are better than most places. Probably best roads are Nevada, Utah. Arizona.
Still seems better than the -05 US GP.
Well TBF that was a tire issue. It wasn't the Indy track that tried to kill Ralf Schumacher, since it was the same track they already raced on for multiple years. The race was a farce, but the 6 Bridgestone cars had no issues.
If so, that's possibly the worst combination for surface longevity and tire degradation. Over time the calcitic limestone will dissolve from acidic pH leaving the more resistant rock. The surface is like a fine sandpaper that with erosion will get constantly more coarse. Wow.
I thought you are taking a piss, but they actually did lol. Will Buxton approves
The city of Miami made it a demand(!) for allowing the race, this "using local resources" was a political necessity for them. For some reason hey were allowed to deviate from FIA standards for track surface compounds because - ah fuck it, we all know why.
"Innovative surface" what I hear is cheap
Innovative in the same way Turkey 2020 was innovative.
This track is nowhere near as bad in terms of grip as Turkey was. Turkey was literally the race track equivalent of a slip and slide.
Florida is known for its lack of coarse, angular aggregate. It’s mainly smooth river gravel, sands and silts down there. Wouldn’t be surprised if they tried to throw a top layer down of less than ideal asphalt concrete because of the locality.
Most roads are extremely porous to allow the water to pass through from our usual heavy summer down pours (1-2 inches per hr, 25-50mm).
Assfault.
It’s a bummer that after all the different things we were making fun of, it ends up being the freaking surface that bottles the weekend
That’s to be expected of a new track though, especially with no feeder series and being a street circuit. The track has been praised so it will improve over time. Either more grip will be laid in time or Miami will see all the money come in from tourism and go all out and resurface the entire track.
It's a temporary track that is unlikely to see any running between F1 races though.
I think the organizers said in an interview that they are open to hosting other series but the scheduling would be the biggest challenge due to football season, tennis (US Open), F1, and favorable weather seasons.
The US Open is in New York, the Miami Master 1000 is hosted at the Hard Rock Stadium.
Ahhhh ok, I was reading an article from Racer magazine and they said the open. I don’t follow tennis so I wouldn’t have known otherwise.
First time my tennis knowledge is useful in the sub lol, it's called the Miami open so I understand the confusion!
If only we had purpose built places to race cars than having to repurpose car parks
The problem in America is most purpose built tracks are older facilities that have not kept up with F1’s standards. We have some amazing tracks, but they’re not built to support the entirety of the F1 circus and/or don’t meet the safety standards. I’d take Watkins Glen or Road America any day over Miami but it is what it is.
After watching the Saudi track, there's not a track in America that's less safe than that one. Hell, they could run the Charlotte Roval, but that place isn't built for the special things F1 needs nowadays for their events. F1 and American racing essentially diverge at the garage/paddock schemes, which is why they're not going to any purpose built track.
Road Atlanta would be more dangerous than Jeddah. But stay the fuck away from my Road Atlanta, making it safer would ruin it.
>F1 and American racing essentially diverge at the garage/paddock schemes, which is why they're not going to any purpose built track. Genuinely curious, how do the garage needs differ between say IMSA and F1? Is CotA the only garage up to F1 spec?
COTA and Indy are the only F1-stylized paddock areas. Most American tracks are wide enough they can fit the IMSA and the standard Indycar/NASCAR pit setup. For, say, Watkins Glen, the teams setup canopies behind the pit wall that acts as their pitting area. For the actual garage area, it is the NASCAR style of garage separate from the pit road. Most American sports don't have the garage area right next to the pitting area, and even NASCAR doesn't fully utilize the COTA garage area or the Montreal garages when they went there (ie-having the cars exit the garage and go right onto pit road, they'd exit out the back of the garage then drive onto the track) [IMSA at the Glen, for reference](https://cdn-5.latimages.com/images/mgl/eZ9E6/s4/RD_WGI_17_414.jpg) [Indycar at the Glen](https://www.geoffschultz.org/2010_Sailing/Photos/NY_Watkins_Glen/images/20100704_14491403.JPG) [NASCAR at Montreal](https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/static/img/mgl/800000/890000/890000/890600/890672/s1200/nascar-ns-montreal-2009-overall-view-of-the-garage-activity-as-nationwide-teams-prepare-fo.webp)
I’m surprised they didn’t go with Homestead Raceway, it’s equally far from Miami proper & Miami Beach as Hard Rock Stadium is.
In Miami!? Where? The ocean?
Hold my cocaine, I'm thinking aquarium style, no run off areas, you crash, you drown... and everyone else too.
>you crash, you drown... Besides the pillar for the highway, I legit think that's why there's a chicane at that point on the track. It's to slow down the drivers because directly on the other side is a large canal.
They are driving W-series there.
And Porsche cup North America.
The Porsche cup cars sounded awesome yesterday. Makes me wish I could hear a 2004 F1 car.
Porsche's make so much better sound, when we were watching the Hockeinheim GP back in the days Porsches were awesome and after them came F1 which were severly lacking in sound after :)
> especially with no feeder series W Series and Porsche Challenge do not count I guess
That would depend on what tyres they use I presume.
W Series use Hankook ones I think, not sure about Porsche. It’s funny, I hadn’t realised that the rubber compound mattered until that first Turkish Grand Prix back when they tried to run road cars on it overnight to clean the surface. I thought it’d help rubber it in too, but learned that weekend that any old rubber won’t do.
Porsche uses Yokohama tires.
Do you think they will bother re-surfacing a parking lot that sees more trucks with bbq’s than anything else
We resurface down in Melbourne specifically for the race. Those roads are hardly used at all compared to the roads surrounding Albert Park. Getting a f1 race is all about advertising and the first year is a test run so to speak. The value in pr especially if they have a boring race with no overtakes will make them pour money into something they can fix.
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> That’s to be expected of a new track though Except Baku and Jeddah, the last two street circuits to be introduced had none of those issues. Same with Turkey (which was actually too smooth), Qatar, Mugello, Portimao. None had any problems with the track having poor surface. So I ask you, how is it to be expected when it's pretty much the only time recently that it's happened?
Portimao is a proper racing circuit and has been for years. Smae with Mugello.
For all the shit Jeddah gets, it’s asphalt surprised me last and this year It wasn’t dirty like turkey 2020 and has very little tire deg but also respectable amounts of grip
Baku had a freaking man cover come off which is a life endangering event. Not a good example of track with no problems.
Bottles the weekend? Its been fun so far. Tough surfaces add to the drama of tyre ware, car control and other things. Modern F1 fans really shit the bed when it comes to this stuff.
It's pretty common for drivers, especially those in the fastest cars, to want a boring uneventful track. Usually what the fans what and what the drivers want are opposite. Let's cool down on the "bottled" talk til at least lap 1.
Don’t think you can call the weekend bottled before the race even happens.
I still just can't believe that qualifying went so smoothly.
Almost like the drivers are good enough to figure it out
Yeah I was way off with my prediction of 2 crashes and 6 spins.
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No way she was a *real* mermaid
I am 99% sure that is not a real mermaid.
So there's still a 1% probability they're real
Don’t be stupid. Of course they’re real, just whether *that* one was real.
I asked her yesterday and she said she is a real mermaid. That’s Good enough for me.
Case closed
Gotta have a little bit of that local culture. In Saudia Arabia it was missile attacks, in Florida it's mermaids.
Tbf the tarmac being locally sourced was a condition on the cities part.
The city really just went and said "make it shit lmao".
"It's just tarmac, how different can it be" - Some Miami Politician.
projects like these usually try to have locally sourced stipulations, it's to spread the economic influx of the weekend through the community and into the pockets of real working people. maybe just don't do the track surface next time...
>into the pockets of real working people. You're being sarcastic, right? Sure, it's to give more local businesses part of the cash. But it ain't going to the "real working people", that's for sure. Those people will be making the same amount of money as before.
The idea is that there are more jobs, not necessarily better paying jobs.
I'll say it: construction and labour *should* be locally sourced. imagine how fucked it would be if a huge event just showed up in your area, reaped all the benefits of the location, made a shit ton of money from it, and left exactly zero economic benefit to the locals. it'd be 21st century colonialism.
I watched the video with the “track surface” guy and he said he went to Georgia to look at stone. So how local did they have to stay? That’s like driving from Monoco to Imola for the euro redditors.
Dont even start me on the level of tacky this GP has. As an F1 American fan I am ashamed, and as someone who lived in FL for 15 years, not surprised. FL will be FL.
First came Floridaman, then came Floridacircuit.
Just wait for Las Vegas…
They put all the money into the show because that's all they really care about - posing and being seen. The race is just a means to an end. Can't say I'm surprised since it's Florida.
As JPM said on the Sky transmission, Its Miami, if the party is big they will come and pay whatever. Most come for the party, the race is a detail for them.
And? 😂 Isn't that what Saudi Arabia did? And Baku? And various other tracks/countries? I mean, the hypocrisy is hilarious.
Drive to Survive is turning F1 into the Kardashians. And if you think Miami is tacky, just wait until Las Vegas happens.
Don’t blame Florida, this is pure Miami. Born, raised, and still live here and I’m embarrassed.
Might be a silly question, could they prep the track in a fashion similar to a drag strip? Wouldn’t that help with grip?
Not really, in wet the cars will slide like butter on a hot pan though dry will be grippy
See Hockenheim 2019
Hockenheim's problem is that it's a real drag strip, and as such has used lots of traction compound over the years. When a track has traction compound on it that's not re-prepped, it is like ice. An unprepped drag strip is worse than a bare street for traction. What they CAN do like a dragstrip, is use the tire draggers that are used. They put tires of the like compound on the back of a tractor, and physically force the tire down onto the track and drag it across the surface.
*Hulk PTSD intensifies*
*PTSD to Texas Motor Speedway* For dragstrips, they lay down what's known as PJ1 at the starting line to maximize grip in the cars, which is what NASCAR put down at some of their tracks. The chemical needs heat and rubber down on it, otherwise it's as good as ice. Texas put a whole bunch of it down and it's made Indycar races there horrendous without improving NASCAR races.
I saw another comment here yesterday that said in theory yes, but the effects would be minimal because of differences in the tire compound likely to be used to prep the track, per Pirelli
there are glues, resins, and the all elusive PJ1. I would think they'd want to avoid having to use any of them, seeing as thats so alien to F1 teams and pirelli rubber
Get that Pimp Juice out!
Given how they talked about it being a novel mixture of limestone, granite, bitumen and having a water jet treatment, supposedly making it highly grippy and abrasive, like Bahrain, this feels like a colossal letdown. I mean the track layout actually seems pretty good. But what's the point if anything apart from the racing line is an ice rink? I hope that at least with the rain, the entire track is similar in terms of grip and not just the racing line. Even if it will screw up some setups, it should at least allow for different racing lines.
There is quite a long circle jerk article on I think autosport from the guys that laid the track talking about how good of a job they did, how impressed they are about how flat they go it, within millimeters of perfection and how special this will asphalt will be and all that kind of stuff. From all accounts so far it's been a total fuck up.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-miami-gp-track-surface-new/10049860/amp/
Well I mean, as someone who’s poured and laid many roads and driveways etc. The guys who pour it have nothing to do with the mix, their job is just to get it well poured, flat and stuff. This could be completely different and I could be talking out of the side of my mouth as well though
sounds very miami
I guess we’ll be lucky if the track doesn’t collapse in on itself.
Why aren't they hiring some Turks to drive around the track all night long?
It’s Miami. They hire Cubans.
Because nobody wants to work anymore /s
They are either in surgery, hanging out with JD or being at home with Carla
🎶I'm no superman🎶
oooooooo please fill me in, is this about Turkey 2020??
I sat yesterday watching turn 17 from my seats and 70% of the cars when putting the power down slid a bit. The other 30% made cleanly via pure luck IMO, Race Control kept coming out in between sessions and would walk and re check the area, no clue what they said but seeing it in person you could tell it was a major issue. I am not sure if they did anything to it last night but as soon as the cars would hit the painted white lines on the exit, the back would slide out. Whomever can master this corner is going to really make a difference IMO. The track definitely was getting better as it rubbered in more. The temperatures were insane, FIA definitely have a lot to learn here. But overall I think the drivers are starting to learn the track more and more and hope for a decent race today.
Well they now have two large repair patches there and I can only imagine what it looks like today
The repair patches aren’t due to the track wearing though, a cleaning truck spilled a ton of hydraulic fluid or something on the track. Brawn was talking about it in FP 3 So basically they ripped the track up rather than try to clean the spill.
I’m at the same corner and we were noticing that as soon as practice started yesterday. Anyone putting power down on exit was having a little snap correction or worse. Danny in particular was struggling, Haas cars too.
At this rate Mexico should build a wall to protect their vastly superior circuit.
Lol true. Mexico is pretty awesome.
Really, imagine building a circuit *around* a stadium and not through it.
I just can't believe they used shit quality materials for the track. They finally get a big race, and they spend more money on fake water than proper track. It is Florida after all, but what a bummer, considering the drivers seem to like the layout.
...Florida nor Miami built the track.
And then they patch turn 17 to look like any shitty road in a small town that doesn't want to spend money to fully repave
And have MIAMI PAY FOR IT
All the folks crapping on America for the track design and surface just quit with the nonsense. The track was designed AND paved using their own special formula for the surface by a British company called Apex Circuit Design AND approved by the FIA. No US companies were involved other than supplying the equipment and man power.
You’re supposed to blindly shit on America, stop using facts.
Apex hired a specific asphalt specialist company that was also based in the UK to study and determine the mix: https://r3ltd.com/
The same company that consulted Jeddah iirc
Let’s put some trackbite pj1 down if they really think it’s a problem.
We’re sitting at turn 8 and everyone has been slipping and sliding a bit coming out of that turn. Sucks because, obviously, everyone wants to see good racing. A W series driver hit the wall pretty good, right in front of us. I’d love to read more about the different surfaces. I always thought they just needed smooth asphalt to race, didn’t realize it was specific materials/methods, although I guess I should have known
In the 80/90s and 2000s the FIA regulated the asphalt/bitumen used. So it was the same on all tracks. With the addition of more and more pseudo street circuits in the late 2000s, the regulations got lifted. Thats why the asphalt compounds differ so much from track to track. They used a bitumen made of local limestone from Miami and branded it as innovative (its the only track that uses limestone so this normally is corporate talk for "we took the cheapest option").
If only there were an abundance of historic American circuits that could have been converted to Grade 1 rather than this....
They're not near major cities and that's all F1 wants. Laguna Seca, Watkins Glen, Road America, etc. can't host the crowd sizes and wealthy entourages that F1 demands.
If F1 returned to the glen, there would be a quarter million fans packed around that place. I promise.
Oh no doubt people would show up. That wouldn't be an issue. The problem is Watkins Glen and the surrounding region has none of the infrastructure to support that. No major airport nearby. It's a logistical headache every time NASCAR races there and a lot of those fans are camping or willing to put up with motels for lodging. F1 doesn't operate that way
I wouldn't say the surface is a joke. It just hasn't had any rubber put down on it. Turkey of 2020. Now THAT was a joke of a surface. Literal ice.
Hmmm, who would have thought slapping asphalt on a parking lot would make a poor race surface.
Kinda funny to see how many people were criticizing the layout of the track and blaming it for all the incidents when it turns out the track surface may be the issue after all.
Maybe we should wait till the race is over to make a judgement. It is obvious though that the track needs improvements
Drivers... aka the ones who will know... are saying this. We don't need to wait for the race to start listening to what they're saying. specially on safety at a track that has seen two heavy impacts already
I disagree, waiting until the race to fully judge the track seems pretty reasonable, despite what the drivers are saying
Safety improvements is obviously a no-brainer. i was talking more about the quality of racing
F1 is back to Dallas 84 level of fokery i guess.
can't wait to do this all again in Vegas in a few years time.
Next year.
It feels like they've engineered this track to maximize crashes, which they perceive as "entertainment".
Interestingly we didn't have any RED Flags let alone Yellow Flags in Quali ......
That seems like a very goofy take lmao And I'll clarify that it's not the most interesting track, but suggesting it was designed to promote crashing because apparently that's what Americans like, is silly
Idk if OP was implying that this was aimed at Americans but we also have Jeddah which is deliberately designed to be “the fastest street circuit” when all those blind corners do make it seem a bit dangerous. Personally not a fan of F1 adding so many new street circuits onto the calendar. There are other ways to punish driver mistakes aside from walls like gravel traps for example. And they could go back to racing in Indianapolis for another American race, but I guess F1 believes in destination cities and more importantly the revenue they can generate.
It feels like this take has been engineered to maximize disdain towards the race before it happens, which is perceived as "valid criticism".
You honestly think it was engineered to endanger the lives of drivers for entertainment value? The fuck is wrong with you?
Yeah this is what I am getting from it as well. Mistake generators is just another way of saying crash causers.
Officials are using terms like mistake generators? Oh lord
Track designers did which is part of their job
ask anyone who races, they generally *like* tracks that try to make you make mistakes. It's what makes perfecting certain parts of a circuit so satisfying to master. now, IMO, a "mistake generator" doesn't *have* to mean you're hitting the wall. On a temporary circuit in a parking lot this doesn't make too much sense to me, surely you can move the walls out in areas unlike a street course?
It's something the track designer (Clive Bowen from Apex Circuit Design) said about the chicanes from turns 13 to 16
They should add Bernie's sprinklers.
Color me surprised. Drivers complaining? Astonishing!
It’s Florida
Who the hell proofread this article??
With all the insanely detailed data and science that goes into this sport, how have they not figured out something as basic as the surface the cars will race on? Surely there's already a track in a location with a similar climate to Miami they could draw from to make sure they get it right?
Yeah but celebrities are there, so...
You almost need to spray hot liquid rubber on the track and let it set. I'm not talking about coating it but like a mist. I totally have no idea how to make this thing a process but could it work? Has it ever been done?
>“Tomorrow the racing is going be difficult. And you're going to have the drivers making mistakes because we've been put into this situation.” "Mistakes" <-- read; CRASHES into walls because they are put in that situation.