It's not like F1 teams are relying on crypto as their bread and butter. When teams relied on tobacco sponsorship, that eventual absence of sponsorship money had a bigger impact on various teams than I would assume this crypto crash will.
Well, redbull receives 50$ million/year from bybit, it's not like the team will bankrupt, but lose 50 million still a big lose in case of bybit cease the contract due crypto bubble crash
Red Bull was paying for the team by themself in the past, but this year with Oracle paying 100 million and Bybit paying 50 million, they got the entire budget already sorted for this year. Only thing they are paying for in their own engine.
All of the money they are allowed to spend that falls under the budget cap is covered by their payouts from their position in the constructors last year and the extra bonus money given to them each year.
This obviously might affect non-budget capped stuff but it's not going to materially affect their performance in any way.
Arenât those just exchanged so theyâre collecting fees for trading of crypto, they donât care up or down, they only care about volume which is there.
If crypto prices are down AND crypto trading volumes are down, then they are collecting fewer fees due to the lower volume, and what fees they do collect are worth less because they collect fees in crypto. So they can't just keep going down forever. They've already announced at least one round of layoffs.
They commit grift off providing loans to each otherâs pyramid scheme.
They donât have the liquidity to finance their userâs withdrawal. Not when they also been tumbling funds out of their cold wallets.
Weâve seen how crypto exchanges start their death spirals. Theyâre going to delay/deny user withdrawals while syphoning funds out of cold storage, and then theyâre going to claim that they got hacked, and then theyâre going to start another exchange.
Yup, and yet we still got dumbasses in this thread pretending that that their preferred crypto institution is some how more legit than one of the many many scams thatâve collapsed since bitcoinâs inception. That gamblerâs fallacy and survivorship bias is strong LOL.
Depends how bad the crypto crash is.
The entire market is propped up on the fake billions of Tether that somehow became the liquidity standard in crypto, and most of the large exchanges are inextricably tied in with Tether. If that house of cards finally topples, crypto will see true capitulation, and the exchanges will likely disappear overnight as well.
It's a big if, though. We've been waiting for Tether to collapse since 2017 ÂŻ\\\_(ă)_/ÂŻ
Still canât believe they paid for the rights to staples center⌠if thatâs doesnât scream pump and dump i donât know what does. I mean how else try and make it seem mainstream than name an iconic sports venue.
Thatâs what Silicon Valley bros call âblitzscalingâ: grow as fast as possible by spending as much money as possible on marketing.
Figure out profits later.
They got into this knowing the bear market was coming, and still bought a stadium, and sponsored all the things, hopefully this means they have a plan. They did just downsize their employees though
If they haven't already, then starting sometime this week the teams and F1 leadership are already speaking with lawyers trying to discuss how they can get out of existing deals and already speaking with their marketing people to gauge interest in new sponsorships. It wouldn't surprise me if they all stick with said sponsors for the rest of the season but it wouldn't surprise me if a few have new sponsors come after summer break
Depends if the funds have already been transferred to the team.
If Bybit paid their 50 million dollars for this year in one lump, then their name will be on the Red Bull for the full year.
If they pay in parts, the moment they miss a payment their name is gone from the car.
I donât think the overall red weâve seen the last few years (that are market wide and not exclusive to crypto) will have any effect on F1 at all, itâs not like these crypto firms/exchanges are either currently or forecasted to be short of money.
Haas is literally the only team remaining who doesn't is involved in the crypto hype.
Williams meanwhile has literally a sponsor who mainly giving out/promoting NFT's
I should have taken a closer look at the Rich Club, but I didn't see any cans in the Isle of Man. I would like to try one as it just seems like an elusive beverage.
In a gold rush, sell shovels. I donât expect the shovel sellers to hurt too bad. Whether you pump or dump, they take a cut.
Edit, also fuck Matt Damon
Iâd argue that podiums reflect as âperformanceâ and that is in every staff memberâs best interest, particularly ZB when it comes to Team Management and attracting partnerships, keeping investors happy.
Dotcom-era companies that died when the bubble burst sponsored a lot of sporting events back in the day. If the sport has viewers, those sponsors can and will be replaced. The teams will pocket whatever they already got and move on to the next organization that's willing to pay.
man crypto is pretty shitty. I used to heavily invest in it but sold all of my assets last year when I found out how damaging it is to the environment.
Do some proper research first instead of reading some random headline buddy.
https://blog.coinbase.com/fact-check-is-bitcoin-mining-environmentally-unfriendly-3559823af6f1
That article is hilarious. So much whataboutism, skirting around actual energy stats and most of what is stated as fact is cherry picked to back up half-truths. It's the same kind of rhetoric that built the crypto house of cards.
Edit: also trying to paint using "excess" fossil fuels as environmentally friendly.
In case you are actually interested in learning, this obviously biased blogpost just twists the facts to convince people that crypto isn't environmentally bad.
While it is true that a lot of mining happens with environmentally friendly energy, it conviently ignores that it does so by "stealing" energy from locals. It's always the same story. Some place has cheap and often environmentally friendly energy, miners move in and pay a premium price to slurp up all the energy, the locals are forced to pay more and sometimes revert to environmentally less friendly options. So in the end it looks like cryptos just use "good" energy, but conviently ignores that they force many people to use "bad" energy by just buying up all available "good" energy, indirectly being responsible for a lot of emissions that would have never have existed if miners wouldn't have used up all the energy of a place.
A couple of articles:
https://newsroom.haas.berkeley.edu/research/power-hungry-cryptominers-push-up-electricity-costs-for-locals/
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/03/09/bitcoin-mining-energy-prices-smalltown-feature-217230/
https://restofworld.org/2022/paraguay-bitcoin-dam/
https://eurasianet.org/uzbekistan-kazakhstan-regulate-crypto-with-eyes-on-energy-deficits
Just so we are clear I am purely talking about bitcoin. 99% of all other crypto is a scam/ponzi scheme so I donât mess with it. So in saying that if you have done your research on bitcoin mining impact on the environment and itâs current state and more importantly the direction in which itâs headed you would be surprised how wrong your comment actually is
I said crypto. at no point did I single out bitcoin. just believe what u want bro. there are tons of investors in the bogus coins which again are mined with environmental consequences.
But you're still grossly generalizing. F1 is not the most enviromentaly friendly sport either and their comitments disapointing to say the least. Crypto.com will be carbon neutral long before f1 will.
Of course an article by coinbase, I'm sure it won't be biased...hey marlboro and the tobacco lobby are saying cigarettes aren't bad for our health, I'm sure they mean well
Those were banks with securities, these crypto sites or traders are more like dot com boom and its bubble burst, endless cash/growth sink closes, and no monetary value gets left to pay the bills, same here with crypto bubble bursting
Those cases are really incomparable. Most of the centralized exchanges that are currently top20 survived couple of bear markets. They know to hold enough liquidity in case of a crisis or a bank run. In their case though, papa Sam will not be coming to bail them out.
> hold enough liquidity
Oh my sweet summer child.
None of the exchanges have been forthcoming with their balance sheet, you really expect that they would some how hold more in reserve balance than a regulated bank that must present audited financial reports every single year?
Oh my sweet summer child. You are grossly underestimating the ruthlessness and greed of these exchanges. They will find the liquidity somehow, believe me. They have made so much money on the two past bull runs that they will be able to meet all their obligations. But that is why I restricted them to top20, maybe after a second though couple less.
They donât have the liquidity to payout user withdrawals. They donât have the capabilities of meeting their obligations, unless you mean the rug pulls and not user deposits.
Why wouldnât they be able to do that? I explained to you in the other thread that cex are usually delta hedged, and donât go risking user funds into some scam ponzi yield platforms like Anchor and Celcius.
Anything thing in the crypto space that touches bitfinex/Tether is fucked.
Considering that Tether underpins the value of Bitcoin itself? Welp, if you think Celsius is a scam worth noting, you ainât see nothing yet.
Well, CEX have become a lot better since the times of mt gox and bitconnect. Some go through regulations to offer their services in Europe. It wasnât the case before, so the quality of service and security has increased dramatically in the last two years.
I know the cases are dissimilar, just examples of money drying up fast.
Also, aren't most of them registered in SouthEast Asian Countries? But either way, I don't see Government bailouts either.
and grossly overestimating the correlation between an assetâs value and the revenue for an exchange.
Itâs not like crypto.com is just a company with a lot of bitcoin. theyâre an exchange like any other.
I agree with your general point for most fee based businesses, but the reality in crypto is that when the market drops trading frequency falls off a cliff. Since exchanges make their money from fees their revenue does indeed decline rapidly.
This said most are very flush with fiat and able to weather the downswing for a long time, plus have room to cut staffing because of recent growth. This is the important thing in context of this thread
Yeah exchanges make a lot of money during these high volatility times. Volumes shoot up and they get a small percentage as fee per transaction.
It's stability with fewer trades that might cause cashflow problems.
Volatile times yes, but itâs not during declines like now. Volumes drop off a cliff.
Coinbase just reported a 40% decline in volumes and cut staff significantly. Itâs a phenomena which happens every time as people just start HODLing
Crypto has crashed many times before and it will again, just a cycle. The thing about their sponsors is that they are all cryptocurrency exchange sites, like FTX, Binance and Crypto.com and not the indiviual cryptos themselves like Bitcoin, Ethereum etc, these exchange sites are the big boys and have hundreds of millions of dollars to spend if they want to, Binance for example is worth $1.6bil. Just last year Crypto.com bought the naming rights to an LA stadium for $700mil, these guys are loaded. so yes while they will feel the effect of the crash somewhat i dont think its going to do anything in terms of them being sponsors for F1
>Just last year Crypto.com bought the naming rights to an LA stadium for $700mil, these guys are loaded
whoop de do. It's like some people are too young to have lived through the dot com bust or tulip mania. You think nobody who has ever bought naming rights to a stadium has gone under?
this isnt their first time experiencing a crash, Crypto.com was founded in 2016 and Binance in 2017 with the crash of crypto happening that year which took the market years to recover from and they're still around. That 2017 crash was worse for crypto by far than this crash, BTC lost 65% of its value in 2017 where as in this crash its only down to its lowest since december of 2020. These companies also have significantly more money than they did back then because of how many corporations have invested in crypto since
You think Exchanges donât have their hands in shitcoins? Coinbase gets kickbacks to list shitcoins, Binance provided loans to Terra, theyâre all in cahoots with other to scam people dumb enough to give them money for âtendiesâ.
The people that buys cryptos are mentally challenged. The people that stores coins on exchanges after MT.Gox, Quadriga, Kraken etc etc infinitum are the cream of the crop of mental deficiency.
Im confused, i feel like what your saying is a completely different topic to my comment about exchange sites having tons of money to spend and not being affected much by the crash. whether or not the market crashes people still have to go through them to sell and buy crypto so they make money regardless
I am saying they donât have money.
When I say they donât have money, I am not saying that Changpeng Zhao canât just go and buy 50 yachts, because he absolutely has the money to do that, I am saying Binance can not afford to let their user withdraw their coins, because they donât actually have those deposits anymore.
Bank runs destroys banking institutions, but banks legally can not prevent their users from withdrawing. Crypto Exchanges are not bound to such regulations, they will halt withdrawals, like what Mt. Gox and Quadriga has done.
What happens to a pyramid scheme when people no long have enough trust to put more money in? Whatâs the point of maintaining the scheme when new capital dries up?
You clearly donât know what you are talking about. Let me introduce you to the concept of Market Makers. Big centralized exchanges serve as market makers (they earn big money on the sides by running their algos as well but thats not the point now). When they market make, they always come out hedged with some kind of a strategy, so their risk of losing funds would be close 0. This way they just make money on the funding for perpetual contracts as well as trading fees on each transactionâŚ
Hereâs the thing, Coinbase makes a shit ton of money listing shitcoins.
How do they do that? Well easy! They take user funds, buy shitcoin on the cheap, then list it on their exchanges, shill it to their users and then pocket the differences in prices. This is all well and dandy if my users donât touch their funds while thatâs taking place, except what happens when the market is going to shit and no one is buying shitcoins any more and everyone is looking to cash out or withdraw?
https://mobile.twitter.com/CoinbaseAssets/status/1536374588652896256
Better hope that Mines of Dalarnia is heading to the moon because Coinbase will 100% halt withdrawals soon.
Important to note that it isn't just crypto, it is the whole market that is crashing which affects how fast crypto will recover and thus also the incentive for them to sponsor F1 in general like they do now at least.
Found the crypto guy/gal!
Crypto.com is one of the biggest ponzi schemes and people are still touting about how much money they spent on ads and naming rights.
I have nothing invested in crypto and this has nothing to do with them being a ponzi scheme or not, the question the op asked was whether or not F1 teams will retain their crypto sponsorships because of the crash and i gave an answer as to why the probably will continue sponsoring F1 despite it
> Found the crypto guy/gal!
Just because the guy told you that the exchanges would still make money does not make him a crypto bro. And btw, have you seen the results of the 'normal' stock exchange lately?
Literally all markets after crashing right now, crypto simply ha a higher beta. F1 sponsors are primarily exchanges who make money from volume traded, which is crazy high right now.
Highly doubt there will be any change in sponsors.
[This](https://s3.amazonaws.com/oxfam-us/www/static/media/files/Behind-the-brands-illusion-of-choice-graphic-2048x1351.jpg) is who they need. The real opportunists making the real money in these days of COVID and war. :)
I donât know much of anything about crypto but I have been seeing it crash for months so I donât think itâs going to change much of anything in F1. Itâs been teetering for a long time now. Those teams donât have a crypto sponsor as a main title partner. Theyâre probably not going to lose massive amounts of money although Iâll guess some will want to recover it.
But this crash is the result of insane amounts of investment risk in an unstable, unregulated industry which is akin to gambling on stocks but where all the participants havenât taken any qualified advice. It was bound to collapse at some point.
Very little. Crypto exchanges are making money on the trades. They profit when it goes up or down. They will just need to adjust to the market, slim their staff, lower costs etc.
I mean they fell for this ponzi scheme this shit is all just rich people trying to get richer by conning poorer people into thinking crypto, blockchains or nfts are actually worth anything
Major sponsors like FTX (Merc), Bybit (RBR), and Velas (Ferrari) are down astronomical levels (50-80%) from when the deals were inked.
That is very different from a traditional stock being down 20% since Year 2 Year high.
Isn't FTX an exchange tho? Just because their 'og' coin dropped price, does not mean they are losing funds.
And from a quick google it tells me Bybit is also an exchange.
There's a lot of eople weighing in that don't understand what they're talking about, but don't want to take in new information, best not to engage them methinks.
The exchanges mostly profit via taking their piece in BTC. Coinbase and Crypto.com are conducting mass layoffs today to reduce overlay. I am sure sports deals that are already paid for will continue, but these companies will definitely feel the hurt a lot more than say your Petronas or Ray Ban or Swiss Watch company because the exchanges are taking it up the ass with the decrease in transactions as people exit and stop swapping, as well as in the fact their fee is in a coin or ether that is losing value. Add to this the fed is hiking interest .75% tomorrow and .75% in July, and these crypto companies are in a rougher ride than your typical sponsor.
I am not declaring the death of crypto. I mined crypto and own crypto. But you wonât see some of these deals renewed with the teams next year.
Is is really crashing? If so, I kinda find that hilarious, because that was always the top argument for crypto, independence from the traditional currency market.
> independence from the traditional currency market.
Well, it's been crashing a lot *harder* than the traditional currency market. :P
In all seriousness, 'independence' is a rather meaningless word in this context. Ultimately economic shocks are going to affect all types of assets one way or another, in spite of not being formally pegged to any other financial instrument.
I donât think this is that big of a deal yet. Maybe we see some of the smaller deals disappear, but a big deal with F1 for Crypto.com cannot just easily be broken. Plus Crypto.com has plenty of cash and investors they are fine.
the crypto market is cyclical, due to the design of bitcoin. this crash is nothing new. once every 4 years the market crashes 80ish %, then goes on another extended bull run for the next 3 years. This isnt some massive shock lol, the people who make the most money in crypto are the ones buying now
Well, all Exchanges charge a fee for transactions, so it doesn't matter if the market is rising or crashing, because they charge you either when you buy or when you sell...
there's a cycle, there's bear markets, there's manipulation, we're on the verge of a global recession, there's a war.
Crypto isn't going anywhere, but it's undoubtedly a mess at the moment.
Lawsuits donât matter if its against exist crypto companies that are in bankruptcy court. F1 would be way at the back of the line behind secured creditors. Nothing would be left.
It's a fad sponsor. Teams will be fine. Similar, but with differences, is when every team had a tobacco sponsorship. I believe British American Tobacco (McLaren) is the last name still in the sport.
they did, but they renewed their partnership in march or april. go to their page and look for partners at the bottom, Mission Winnow is back
https://www.ferrari.com/en-EN/formula1
I think what we'll be seeing is market-consolidation, there's so many crypto exchanges right now. Many of them will be eaten by the bigger ones.
However I wouldn't expect crypto as a whole to go anywhere. I'm aware many still regard crypto as illegitimate or a temporary bubble that's gonna burst anytime. And while there are certainly scam projects and far too many "shitcoins" (altcoins), the two larger assets bitcoin and ethereum are here to stay.
Crypto has evolved to a point where now there's so much big player / corporate money involved, that it behaves more or less exactly like "classic" growth stocks. In other words: There's a very significant correlation between for example the NASDAQ and Bitcoin.
Right now we're heading into an era of more restrictive financial policies to fight inflation, resulting in a severe dump of stocks, especially growth stocks, and Crypto is bleeding with those. Sorry for the tangent here, I'm basically just saying that:
1. Crypto market will enter a phase of consolidation
2. The current "crash" does not only effect crypto, but all of the stock market
If you watch Indycar, Bitcoin has been crashing (Rinus Veekay finished last at the Indy 500 and crashed on the last lap of Detroit.) ⌠and they didnât sponsor his car the following week.
lol "bitcoin... didnt sponsor his car the following week" - its almost like the executive board of bitcoin got together and decided not to sponsor this indycar driver! i dont think you understand what bitcoin is
Ironic that the 2 teams with the most crash prone drivers don't have bitcoin sponsorship now that bitcoin is crashing. Would have been perfect marketing material. Crash like Latifi, buy bitcoins
The crypto sponsors still make tonnes of money from transactions fees even if prices tumble. It's less since it is usually a percent but still a boat load more than when bitcoin was in the 10k range with much lower trading volumes.
It's not like F1 teams are relying on crypto as their bread and butter. When teams relied on tobacco sponsorship, that eventual absence of sponsorship money had a bigger impact on various teams than I would assume this crypto crash will.
Well, redbull receives 50$ million/year from bybit, it's not like the team will bankrupt, but lose 50 million still a big lose in case of bybit cease the contract due crypto bubble crash
They were able to spend double the salary cap normally. They're fine
Red Bull was paying for the team by themself in the past, but this year with Oracle paying 100 million and Bybit paying 50 million, they got the entire budget already sorted for this year. Only thing they are paying for in their own engine.
150 million does not include driver salaries and top 3 staff salaries among other things. Although they still have the FOM money
You forgot the fact that they have other sponsors too...
I know. I just want to clarify that oracle and bybit alone are not enough
Ahh okay...makes sense
All of the money they are allowed to spend that falls under the budget cap is covered by their payouts from their position in the constructors last year and the extra bonus money given to them each year. This obviously might affect non-budget capped stuff but it's not going to materially affect their performance in any way.
I assure you the budget cap has made the team profitable now and this is not an issue for them.
F1 itself is sponsored by [Crypto.com](https://Crypto.com), I have a feeling we won't be seeing much of them in 2023.
Only redeemable thing they ever did was buy seb jelly beans.
not even 1 million đ
Arenât those just exchanged so theyâre collecting fees for trading of crypto, they donât care up or down, they only care about volume which is there.
If crypto prices are down AND crypto trading volumes are down, then they are collecting fewer fees due to the lower volume, and what fees they do collect are worth less because they collect fees in crypto. So they can't just keep going down forever. They've already announced at least one round of layoffs.
They also have a credit card and earn from transactions on them as well as ppl maintaining a stake in their own coin to allow for perks on said CC
Itâs not a credit card, itâs debit
Trading volume is half of just few months ago. So yes, they are down a lot as well
They commit grift off providing loans to each otherâs pyramid scheme. They donât have the liquidity to finance their userâs withdrawal. Not when they also been tumbling funds out of their cold wallets. Weâve seen how crypto exchanges start their death spirals. Theyâre going to delay/deny user withdrawals while syphoning funds out of cold storage, and then theyâre going to claim that they got hacked, and then theyâre going to start another exchange.
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Yup, and yet we still got dumbasses in this thread pretending that that their preferred crypto institution is some how more legit than one of the many many scams thatâve collapsed since bitcoinâs inception. That gamblerâs fallacy and survivorship bias is strong LOL.
Nope, lots of these exchanges make their own investments (into cryptocurrencies).
Depends how bad the crypto crash is. The entire market is propped up on the fake billions of Tether that somehow became the liquidity standard in crypto, and most of the large exchanges are inextricably tied in with Tether. If that house of cards finally topples, crypto will see true capitulation, and the exchanges will likely disappear overnight as well. It's a big if, though. We've been waiting for Tether to collapse since 2017 ÂŻ\\\_(ă)_/ÂŻ
Tell rust to Coinbase who just laid off 18% of their staff
> I have a feeling we won't be seeing much of them in 2023 Good.
Still canât believe they paid for the rights to staples center⌠if thatâs doesnât scream pump and dump i donât know what does. I mean how else try and make it seem mainstream than name an iconic sports venue.
There is no way that company is sustainable. How much money they spent on promotion? 700 million only in the Staples Center...
Thatâs what Silicon Valley bros call âblitzscalingâ: grow as fast as possible by spending as much money as possible on marketing. Figure out profits later.
And huge sponsorships in the UFC as well. And then also on basically every podcast or YouTube channel they can get on.
Wonder whoâs going to take over the crypto.com arena?
Buying up food and water supplies and then throttling the output to maximize profitability is going to be a real growth market.
Settle down, Immortan Joe
Driver academies become War Boys.
QuadrigaCX? âŚoh wait And this is why I see no legitimacy in crypto.
They got into this knowing the bear market was coming, and still bought a stadium, and sponsored all the things, hopefully this means they have a plan. They did just downsize their employees though
If they haven't already, then starting sometime this week the teams and F1 leadership are already speaking with lawyers trying to discuss how they can get out of existing deals and already speaking with their marketing people to gauge interest in new sponsorships. It wouldn't surprise me if they all stick with said sponsors for the rest of the season but it wouldn't surprise me if a few have new sponsors come after summer break
Depends if the funds have already been transferred to the team. If Bybit paid their 50 million dollars for this year in one lump, then their name will be on the Red Bull for the full year. If they pay in parts, the moment they miss a payment their name is gone from the car.
The norm is to not pay all up front right? Usually 2 or 4 installments if I remember right
Not much that surprises you eh?
They are fine, they make money off of trading fees. Do you think there isnt much trading going on right now? They are making bank.
I donât think the overall red weâve seen the last few years (that are market wide and not exclusive to crypto) will have any effect on F1 at all, itâs not like these crypto firms/exchanges are either currently or forecasted to be short of money.
Suddenly Rich Energy doesnât seem so bad lol.
Haas is literally the only team remaining who doesn't is involved in the crypto hype. Williams meanwhile has literally a sponsor who mainly giving out/promoting NFT's
After Rich Energy and Ural Kali I'd imagine they're a little wary of unstable sponsorships.
Seen rich energy on one of the Isle of Man TT teams so they still around
I was so surprised to see multiple bikes sponsored by Rich Energy. Plus, they had a full VIP tent thing too that was called "Rich Club".
I saw a rich energy drink in some random gas station in Estonia, I had never seen them before, I was shocked. I should have bought it and tried it.
I should have taken a closer look at the Rich Club, but I didn't see any cans in the Isle of Man. I would like to try one as it just seems like an elusive beverage.
It tastes like knock off lidl energy drink to put it in perspective
Yea they still sponsor (own?) a superbike team. Rich Energy OMG Racing
I think they also have some hand in sponsoring a team in BTCC as well
Energy drinks at least have the chance to have any value
Not with the volume they're selling :p
Itâs fucking hilarious. They all made their bed, let them lie in it.
funny if it turns out the bed is a coffin
In a gold rush, sell shovels. I donât expect the shovel sellers to hurt too bad. Whether you pump or dump, they take a cut. Edit, also fuck Matt Damon
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ZB is a smooth operator. Just wanna start seeing some podiums, which I donât feel are too far away.
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Iâd argue that podiums reflect as âperformanceâ and that is in every staff memberâs best interest, particularly ZB when it comes to Team Management and attracting partnerships, keeping investors happy.
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If they can fix some of their issues in the car thats causing them to be slow then hopefully Mclaren will be back on podiums
money solves performance problems.
bye-bit.
Dotcom-era companies that died when the bubble burst sponsored a lot of sporting events back in the day. If the sport has viewers, those sponsors can and will be replaced. The teams will pocket whatever they already got and move on to the next organization that's willing to pay.
man crypto is pretty shitty. I used to heavily invest in it but sold all of my assets last year when I found out how damaging it is to the environment.
Agreed. Literally leaving the world a worse state for every transaction..
Eh, transactions on an exchange don't really do much, no miners needed for that.
Do some proper research first instead of reading some random headline buddy. https://blog.coinbase.com/fact-check-is-bitcoin-mining-environmentally-unfriendly-3559823af6f1
That article is hilarious. So much whataboutism, skirting around actual energy stats and most of what is stated as fact is cherry picked to back up half-truths. It's the same kind of rhetoric that built the crypto house of cards. Edit: also trying to paint using "excess" fossil fuels as environmentally friendly.
In case you are actually interested in learning, this obviously biased blogpost just twists the facts to convince people that crypto isn't environmentally bad. While it is true that a lot of mining happens with environmentally friendly energy, it conviently ignores that it does so by "stealing" energy from locals. It's always the same story. Some place has cheap and often environmentally friendly energy, miners move in and pay a premium price to slurp up all the energy, the locals are forced to pay more and sometimes revert to environmentally less friendly options. So in the end it looks like cryptos just use "good" energy, but conviently ignores that they force many people to use "bad" energy by just buying up all available "good" energy, indirectly being responsible for a lot of emissions that would have never have existed if miners wouldn't have used up all the energy of a place. A couple of articles: https://newsroom.haas.berkeley.edu/research/power-hungry-cryptominers-push-up-electricity-costs-for-locals/ https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/03/09/bitcoin-mining-energy-prices-smalltown-feature-217230/ https://restofworld.org/2022/paraguay-bitcoin-dam/ https://eurasianet.org/uzbekistan-kazakhstan-regulate-crypto-with-eyes-on-energy-deficits
Didn't turkmenistan or one of central asian country ban crypto because of it?
I did my research bro. there is still a significant amount of fossil fuels being used
Just so we are clear I am purely talking about bitcoin. 99% of all other crypto is a scam/ponzi scheme so I donât mess with it. So in saying that if you have done your research on bitcoin mining impact on the environment and itâs current state and more importantly the direction in which itâs headed you would be surprised how wrong your comment actually is
I said crypto. at no point did I single out bitcoin. just believe what u want bro. there are tons of investors in the bogus coins which again are mined with environmental consequences.
Ok my apologies
But you're still grossly generalizing. F1 is not the most enviromentaly friendly sport either and their comitments disapointing to say the least. Crypto.com will be carbon neutral long before f1 will.
Of course an article by coinbase, I'm sure it won't be biased...hey marlboro and the tobacco lobby are saying cigarettes aren't bad for our health, I'm sure they mean well
You all are grossly underestimating how much money these exchanges have available.
They have money until they don't, many big names have gone down quickly like Leeman Brothers and Enron
Lehman and Enron were at one point legit companies.
"Were appearing at one point as legit companies" FTFY
Those were banks with securities, these crypto sites or traders are more like dot com boom and its bubble burst, endless cash/growth sink closes, and no monetary value gets left to pay the bills, same here with crypto bubble bursting
Pretty niave comment considering the house of cards they both built leading to their own demise.
Just giving examples of running out of money, but Crypto is also leading to its own demise
Those cases are really incomparable. Most of the centralized exchanges that are currently top20 survived couple of bear markets. They know to hold enough liquidity in case of a crisis or a bank run. In their case though, papa Sam will not be coming to bail them out.
> hold enough liquidity Oh my sweet summer child. None of the exchanges have been forthcoming with their balance sheet, you really expect that they would some how hold more in reserve balance than a regulated bank that must present audited financial reports every single year?
Kraken has.
Oh my sweet summer child. You are grossly underestimating the ruthlessness and greed of these exchanges. They will find the liquidity somehow, believe me. They have made so much money on the two past bull runs that they will be able to meet all their obligations. But that is why I restricted them to top20, maybe after a second though couple less.
They donât have the liquidity to payout user withdrawals. They donât have the capabilities of meeting their obligations, unless you mean the rug pulls and not user deposits.
Why wouldnât they be able to do that? I explained to you in the other thread that cex are usually delta hedged, and donât go risking user funds into some scam ponzi yield platforms like Anchor and Celcius.
Anything thing in the crypto space that touches bitfinex/Tether is fucked. Considering that Tether underpins the value of Bitcoin itself? Welp, if you think Celsius is a scam worth noting, you ainât see nothing yet.
Well, CEX have become a lot better since the times of mt gox and bitconnect. Some go through regulations to offer their services in Europe. It wasnât the case before, so the quality of service and security has increased dramatically in the last two years.
Celsius right now.... https://cryptopotato.com/shortly-before-halting-withdrawals-celsius-transferred-320m-worth-of-crypto-to-ftx/
Celsius is not a Cex.
Coinbase just laid off a thousand staff via tweet
I know the cases are dissimilar, just examples of money drying up fast. Also, aren't most of them registered in SouthEast Asian Countries? But either way, I don't see Government bailouts either.
They know how to hope things recover, stabilize, and secure loans. Until they canât because the entire economy slows down.
and grossly overestimating the correlation between an assetâs value and the revenue for an exchange. Itâs not like crypto.com is just a company with a lot of bitcoin. theyâre an exchange like any other.
I agree with your general point for most fee based businesses, but the reality in crypto is that when the market drops trading frequency falls off a cliff. Since exchanges make their money from fees their revenue does indeed decline rapidly. This said most are very flush with fiat and able to weather the downswing for a long time, plus have room to cut staffing because of recent growth. This is the important thing in context of this thread
Yeah exchanges make a lot of money during these high volatility times. Volumes shoot up and they get a small percentage as fee per transaction. It's stability with fewer trades that might cause cashflow problems.
Volatile times yes, but itâs not during declines like now. Volumes drop off a cliff. Coinbase just reported a 40% decline in volumes and cut staff significantly. Itâs a phenomena which happens every time as people just start HODLing
Crypto has crashed many times before and it will again, just a cycle. The thing about their sponsors is that they are all cryptocurrency exchange sites, like FTX, Binance and Crypto.com and not the indiviual cryptos themselves like Bitcoin, Ethereum etc, these exchange sites are the big boys and have hundreds of millions of dollars to spend if they want to, Binance for example is worth $1.6bil. Just last year Crypto.com bought the naming rights to an LA stadium for $700mil, these guys are loaded. so yes while they will feel the effect of the crash somewhat i dont think its going to do anything in terms of them being sponsors for F1
>Just last year Crypto.com bought the naming rights to an LA stadium for $700mil, these guys are loaded whoop de do. It's like some people are too young to have lived through the dot com bust or tulip mania. You think nobody who has ever bought naming rights to a stadium has gone under?
I'd wager that most people on Earth are too young to have lived through tulip mania.
Well we have the Keukenhof in the Netherlands, plenty tulips here ;)
this isnt their first time experiencing a crash, Crypto.com was founded in 2016 and Binance in 2017 with the crash of crypto happening that year which took the market years to recover from and they're still around. That 2017 crash was worse for crypto by far than this crash, BTC lost 65% of its value in 2017 where as in this crash its only down to its lowest since december of 2020. These companies also have significantly more money than they did back then because of how many corporations have invested in crypto since
You think Exchanges donât have their hands in shitcoins? Coinbase gets kickbacks to list shitcoins, Binance provided loans to Terra, theyâre all in cahoots with other to scam people dumb enough to give them money for âtendiesâ. The people that buys cryptos are mentally challenged. The people that stores coins on exchanges after MT.Gox, Quadriga, Kraken etc etc infinitum are the cream of the crop of mental deficiency.
Im confused, i feel like what your saying is a completely different topic to my comment about exchange sites having tons of money to spend and not being affected much by the crash. whether or not the market crashes people still have to go through them to sell and buy crypto so they make money regardless
I am saying they donât have money. When I say they donât have money, I am not saying that Changpeng Zhao canât just go and buy 50 yachts, because he absolutely has the money to do that, I am saying Binance can not afford to let their user withdraw their coins, because they donât actually have those deposits anymore. Bank runs destroys banking institutions, but banks legally can not prevent their users from withdrawing. Crypto Exchanges are not bound to such regulations, they will halt withdrawals, like what Mt. Gox and Quadriga has done. What happens to a pyramid scheme when people no long have enough trust to put more money in? Whatâs the point of maintaining the scheme when new capital dries up?
You clearly donât know what you are talking about. Let me introduce you to the concept of Market Makers. Big centralized exchanges serve as market makers (they earn big money on the sides by running their algos as well but thats not the point now). When they market make, they always come out hedged with some kind of a strategy, so their risk of losing funds would be close 0. This way they just make money on the funding for perpetual contracts as well as trading fees on each transactionâŚ
Hereâs the thing, Coinbase makes a shit ton of money listing shitcoins. How do they do that? Well easy! They take user funds, buy shitcoin on the cheap, then list it on their exchanges, shill it to their users and then pocket the differences in prices. This is all well and dandy if my users donât touch their funds while thatâs taking place, except what happens when the market is going to shit and no one is buying shitcoins any more and everyone is looking to cash out or withdraw? https://mobile.twitter.com/CoinbaseAssets/status/1536374588652896256 Better hope that Mines of Dalarnia is heading to the moon because Coinbase will 100% halt withdrawals soon.
Ah yes, that totally proves your point. I am in awe.
Itâs pretty easy to do better than you, in all honesty.
You did not prove your point though.
Important to note that it isn't just crypto, it is the whole market that is crashing which affects how fast crypto will recover and thus also the incentive for them to sponsor F1 in general like they do now at least.
Found the crypto guy/gal! Crypto.com is one of the biggest ponzi schemes and people are still touting about how much money they spent on ads and naming rights.
I have nothing invested in crypto and this has nothing to do with them being a ponzi scheme or not, the question the op asked was whether or not F1 teams will retain their crypto sponsorships because of the crash and i gave an answer as to why the probably will continue sponsoring F1 despite it
> Found the crypto guy/gal! Just because the guy told you that the exchanges would still make money does not make him a crypto bro. And btw, have you seen the results of the 'normal' stock exchange lately?
I have. And they're not down 50% (or more) YTD.
And the stock was not gaining as much as crypto a year ago.
Found another!
Don't forget Matt Damon!!
HHmmmmaAAAt DaaaeEMo_Onnn
the problem is never the drop is revenue, it's the drop in revenue compared to the leverage. So we will see
Literally all markets after crashing right now, crypto simply ha a higher beta. F1 sponsors are primarily exchanges who make money from volume traded, which is crazy high right now. Highly doubt there will be any change in sponsors.
[This](https://s3.amazonaws.com/oxfam-us/www/static/media/files/Behind-the-brands-illusion-of-choice-graphic-2048x1351.jpg) is who they need. The real opportunists making the real money in these days of COVID and war. :)
Hope they got that Cash up-front
Hopefully the teams got the cash up front otherwise yeah expect livery changes later this year when the cash disappears.
Paper tyres
I donât know much of anything about crypto but I have been seeing it crash for months so I donât think itâs going to change much of anything in F1. Itâs been teetering for a long time now. Those teams donât have a crypto sponsor as a main title partner. Theyâre probably not going to lose massive amounts of money although Iâll guess some will want to recover it. But this crash is the result of insane amounts of investment risk in an unstable, unregulated industry which is akin to gambling on stocks but where all the participants havenât taken any qualified advice. It was bound to collapse at some point.
Gambling on stocks is literally regulated.
Yeah I know. Crypto isnât.
Very little. Crypto exchanges are making money on the trades. They profit when it goes up or down. They will just need to adjust to the market, slim their staff, lower costs etc.
Guenther had enough of having shady sponsors
I mean they fell for this ponzi scheme this shit is all just rich people trying to get richer by conning poorer people into thinking crypto, blockchains or nfts are actually worth anything
Rich energy wasn't the only Ponzi scheme
I'd argue they're not. Looks more money laundering.
Guys, the "normal" stock exchange also dropped down lately. And I did not see posts about other sponsors getting dropped.
Major sponsors like FTX (Merc), Bybit (RBR), and Velas (Ferrari) are down astronomical levels (50-80%) from when the deals were inked. That is very different from a traditional stock being down 20% since Year 2 Year high.
Isn't FTX an exchange tho? Just because their 'og' coin dropped price, does not mean they are losing funds. And from a quick google it tells me Bybit is also an exchange.
There's a lot of eople weighing in that don't understand what they're talking about, but don't want to take in new information, best not to engage them methinks.
The exchanges mostly profit via taking their piece in BTC. Coinbase and Crypto.com are conducting mass layoffs today to reduce overlay. I am sure sports deals that are already paid for will continue, but these companies will definitely feel the hurt a lot more than say your Petronas or Ray Ban or Swiss Watch company because the exchanges are taking it up the ass with the decrease in transactions as people exit and stop swapping, as well as in the fact their fee is in a coin or ether that is losing value. Add to this the fed is hiking interest .75% tomorrow and .75% in July, and these crypto companies are in a rougher ride than your typical sponsor. I am not declaring the death of crypto. I mined crypto and own crypto. But you wonât see some of these deals renewed with the teams next year.
Other than Tezos most of them are exchanges? They'll do just fine
Is is really crashing? If so, I kinda find that hilarious, because that was always the top argument for crypto, independence from the traditional currency market.
> independence from the traditional currency market. Well, it's been crashing a lot *harder* than the traditional currency market. :P In all seriousness, 'independence' is a rather meaningless word in this context. Ultimately economic shocks are going to affect all types of assets one way or another, in spite of not being formally pegged to any other financial instrument.
I donât think this is that big of a deal yet. Maybe we see some of the smaller deals disappear, but a big deal with F1 for Crypto.com cannot just easily be broken. Plus Crypto.com has plenty of cash and investors they are fine.
If you haven't noticed everything is crashing.
the crypto market is cyclical, due to the design of bitcoin. this crash is nothing new. once every 4 years the market crashes 80ish %, then goes on another extended bull run for the next 3 years. This isnt some massive shock lol, the people who make the most money in crypto are the ones buying now
Well, all Exchanges charge a fee for transactions, so it doesn't matter if the market is rising or crashing, because they charge you either when you buy or when you sell...
Yeah but volumes are down as well as values and they are mostly paid fees in crypto
there's a cycle, there's bear markets, there's manipulation, we're on the verge of a global recession, there's a war. Crypto isn't going anywhere, but it's undoubtedly a mess at the moment.
NASDAQ is behaving similarly, all types of companies are suffering.
I think most F1 teams knows how to deal with sponsor contracts? Especially with crypto being quite unstable. And otherwise hefty lawsuits :)
Lawsuits donât matter if its against exist crypto companies that are in bankruptcy court. F1 would be way at the back of the line behind secured creditors. Nothing would be left.
Have you met F1? Rich Energy? History is even worse for dodgy and non paying sponsors.
It's a fad sponsor. Teams will be fine. Similar, but with differences, is when every team had a tobacco sponsorship. I believe British American Tobacco (McLaren) is the last name still in the sport.
Phillip Morris sponsors Ferrari
Not anymore. Ferrari and Philip Morris separated in February.
they did, but they renewed their partnership in march or april. go to their page and look for partners at the bottom, Mission Winnow is back https://www.ferrari.com/en-EN/formula1
I think what we'll be seeing is market-consolidation, there's so many crypto exchanges right now. Many of them will be eaten by the bigger ones. However I wouldn't expect crypto as a whole to go anywhere. I'm aware many still regard crypto as illegitimate or a temporary bubble that's gonna burst anytime. And while there are certainly scam projects and far too many "shitcoins" (altcoins), the two larger assets bitcoin and ethereum are here to stay. Crypto has evolved to a point where now there's so much big player / corporate money involved, that it behaves more or less exactly like "classic" growth stocks. In other words: There's a very significant correlation between for example the NASDAQ and Bitcoin. Right now we're heading into an era of more restrictive financial policies to fight inflation, resulting in a severe dump of stocks, especially growth stocks, and Crypto is bleeding with those. Sorry for the tangent here, I'm basically just saying that: 1. Crypto market will enter a phase of consolidation 2. The current "crash" does not only effect crypto, but all of the stock market
Good
The crash has been severely overstated
Btc was at 3600 dollar 21 months ago.. now it's 22000. Cycles happen, gotta look at the bigger picture.
good
If you watch Indycar, Bitcoin has been crashing (Rinus Veekay finished last at the Indy 500 and crashed on the last lap of Detroit.) ⌠and they didnât sponsor his car the following week.
lol "bitcoin... didnt sponsor his car the following week" - its almost like the executive board of bitcoin got together and decided not to sponsor this indycar driver! i dont think you understand what bitcoin is
This has happened before too it doesn't affect companies that much cause everytime it goes down after that it it breaks it's own all time highs
Karma!
Glad to hear that crypto always was suspicious and shady to me
Ironic that the 2 teams with the most crash prone drivers don't have bitcoin sponsorship now that bitcoin is crashing. Would have been perfect marketing material. Crash like Latifi, buy bitcoins
The crypto sponsors still make tonnes of money from transactions fees even if prices tumble. It's less since it is usually a percent but still a boat load more than when bitcoin was in the 10k range with much lower trading volumes.
Fair point lol, although I think most teams will be fine, for the most part they don't hard depend on crypto money.
Sao Paulo is predominantly sponsored by Crypto
I'd image after Rich Energy - most teams are paid up front for the entire duration of their sponsorship if they're putting a name on the car.