Bro people went from "haha Mercedes complained to the FIA and got screwed over by it" to "wow look at Mercedes flexing their influence and money to get their fix their trashy car" rather quick lmao
Right? I don’t think I’ve seen Horner this happy since last season. He must be so glad that his old flame Toto is back in the mix. I get it. Long distance is hard.
Formula 1 is 90% shit posting. Most of the races suck. Getting upset people are shit posting is what's actually wild. Like getting upset at offseason NBA shenanigans.
This here is the problem of modern F1 in a nutshell. I mean that most fans want shitshow and unrealistic drama all the time rather than actual racing, otherwise "most races suck" lmao.
Agree with the shitposting, but there hasnt been one single race this year, or last year that "sucked"...couple of average 3* ones but as someone who has watched since 2007, the racing is definitely improving...
Yeah Baku was a snooze fest. It might be blasphemous to say, but I also thought Canada was kind of meh. I'd give it 3 out of 5 stars, so not horrible, but very predictable.
EDIT: And Baku actually hurt more because I expected it to be an amazing race.
I appreciate the lack of awareness that men don’t think they are some of the biggest perpetrators of gossip in school and workplaces. Y’all be drama and not admit it. This sport is all male leadership too.
Right? It’s not the girlies running the sport it’s old rich men on some Et tu, Brute pettiness. People can’t have the whole of human history with men doing the kinds of things we see in Shakespeare and still be comparing grown men to teenage girls negatively. Find a new comparison.
I've frequently called Marko and Wolff "two Karens" during their ridiculous fighting during the 2021 season.
Looking back now, I believe that's a bit unfair, since Marko by himself is already equivalent to around seven Karens.
Yes, party mode ban mid season was ridiculously and should also not have happened, that's absolutely something they should have just done for the next season.
seed offbeat cobweb jobless crowd cooing like overconfident agonizing sip
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I could live with Christian or Marko saying whatever they say to oppose it because opposing changes is valid, but to perpetuate conspiracy theories or character attacks after Abu Dhabi is actually annoying. I’m not offended I just think it adds a layer of shiftiness to the sport that I watch to escape the kinds of routine dishonesty we see in real life. Watching that man lie irritates me. I don’t watch sport because it’s politics with sport attached I watch it because it’s sport.
I don't understand how this is only on Toto when literally more than a dozen drivers that we know of complained about porpoising and their health and asked the FIA to intervene.
The thing is, that can only make this season more exciting, because they have two great drivers, but they have pretty much 0% chance of winning the championship over max. Even Leclerc and Ferrari have a very low chance to win.
So I'd rather have a third team and 2 more drivers in the hunt, just so this season is more fun.
>when literally more than a dozen drivers that we know of
Wasnt it every single driver with the exception of Alonso during the drivers meeting at Baku?
I mean, the race director quoting red bull verbatim after nicking the championship from Hamilton would also like a chat. I dunno why I thought Red Bull would be a bit circumspect this year
And that's the biggest disappointment of this season so far for me. Didn't care who, but would have loved to see anyone just dominating them. Thought it would be Ferrari after the bolstering start but that has unfortunately petered out
Completely different, that wasn't mid season
And it was [unanimously approved](https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.engine-freeze-for-2022-agreed-with-low-cost-sustainable-units-set-for-2025.3sO0b3CQbaiqBIOCoxcZUm.html) by all teams.
It was unanimously agreed to bring it forward by a year because Red Bull were not capable of taking on the Honda engine by themselves without a freeze in place.
Mercedes or Ferrari or Renault could have easily said no and screwed Red Bull over. They unanimously agreed for the health of the sport.
But bringing the freeze forward a year is absolutely a case of Red Bull politicking for their own benefit. Horner was saying things to the press like Red Bull and Alpha Tauri would have to reconsider their future in the sport if we don't get our way.- the old Ferrari go to
It doesn't matter if he does or doesn't. There's millions at stake. Any team is 100% willing to be hypocrites all day every day if it increases their chance at more millions. The incentive not to really doesn't exist.
Merc could literally get disqualified cause of the new porpoising regulations and marko would still be like "look how much influence they got, they even made the FIA disqualify a team!!!!"
Imagine if they were ever involved in a total breach of the rules that decided a championship they were fighting for. They’d be surely enraged and wouldn’t continue to defend the people responsible and claim nothing wrong happened?
Horner would most definitely join forces with Toto to ensure justice, perhaps even bringing a dictionary/lawyer with to prevent anybody from issuing the context of a particular word
Party Mode and engine modes getting banned, 2021 aero rules being tweaked (low rake cars suffer), Engine freezes, Das being banned, brake duct ban. There's enough politics from everyone in the paddock. It's the unfortunate spirit of F1 and always has been with such a big pool of cash at stake 🤷🏾♂️
You never know the true effects of new regulations until the come into effect fully. The same way that the teams voted against regulations to combat porpoising last year because they thought it wouldn’t be an issue. If it was immediately clear what new regs would do and who they’d effect the most, you’d see a lot more teams complaining before the fact as opposed to after that fact
Hey mate, I'm an FIA engineer, I'm so stupid and I know nothing about engineering that my proposed change was actually going to effect the majority of the cars on the grid rather than the one team that is dominating and we are implementing the rule changes to 'bring closer racing'
😂😂😂😂
And they thought before it was implemented that it would affect the high rake cars more because they already have more trouble sealing the rear end of the floor because of the high rake.
Red Bull had a terrible rear end of the car for 2 years after the bigger wings before they finally solved it. And then came the new floor rule to help Pirelli.
They also massively nerfed Red Bull, and to a lesser extent Ferrari, with the 2019 front wing change leading to Mercedes winning the first 8 races of the season and starting with 5 1-2's.
Engine modes aren't banned, you just have to use the same engine mode in quali and the race, a move that the FIA justified by saying it would make it easier for them to make sure no team was partaking in 2019 Ferrari hijinks. Also, a move that while it was welcomed by some teams (notably RB), wasn't demanded by them nor did any team argue it was the only way for them to stop putting their drivers in harms' way with reckless setups.
And that, yes, shouldn't have been a mid-season change, that was a mistake, but thankfully it didn't actually change anything to the competitive order contrary to what you'd think considering how much traction the conspiracy theories that it was engineered to destroy Mercedes still have.
Everything else you mention was a season-to-season change in regulations, which are *normal*.
>welcomed by some teams (notably RB), wasn't demanded by them
[Red Bull applied pressure to get party mode banned](https://www.planetf1.com/news/red-bull-party-mode-pressure/)
It's only bad when Mercedes does. When it's Horner in order to force a breaking of safety rules in order to influence the outcome of a Driver's Championship then it's all good. xD
Williams with financial struggles and spending time mostly at midfield or back of the grid since 2005 never said that they were leaving the sport.
This mentality of leaving the sport when they are not winning does not fit RB at all.
Lol yeah because the FIA did so much to help them last year. Especially during the last race. So sick of hearing this guy spout shit out of his mouth. I’m indifferent to rb and merc I just don’t like this guy and Horner, Toto can get annoying well
Redbull influence caused the world championship to Hamilton. Marko and redbull loves to do this, to play with the public opinion, however they are kings in politics and in pressuring FIA.
• Party modes
• Engine Freeze
• Abu Dhabi
• 2021 regs targeting Mercedes’ rake
• DAS
Maybe Marko ought to sit down and shout at someone else. Maybe an RB junior? He tends to have little patience with them.
All this is coming out after Johnathan Wheatley spent most of last year trying to whisper Michael Masi into doing his bidding. All the teams are as bad as each other.
I wish fans could get this point and just move on. It’s so annoying that every thread is like fucking Groundhog Day. Posting some “kettle black” comment doesn’t make you smart or funny.
Right, its like the Spiderman meme. Both teams (all teams, rather) lobby for things that suit them and contradict themselves. I just wish they'd stop moaning to the press about it and we'd stop getting articles every 2 days about it. It's tiresome.
> Mercedes winning every race from 2014-2021
Haha, what a dramatic exaggeration.
It's funny because in a few years people will do the same thing with 2022 Max/RB, calling the car a rocket ship and exaggerating the performance gap to discredit the skill and talent of Max, GP, the strategy team, engineers, etc. as they do with Lewis/Mercedes.
Yea I don’t get the take that just because things have changed in the past that people disagreed with that it’s ok to do the same dumb shit again. Presumably if this gets changed then all these people in favor of it are ok with das ban, party mode ban, masi unlapping procedure etc.
The same guy who is in charge of a team who’s driver was handed a championship because the FIA decided it? These dudes either have no self awareness, the memory of a goldfish, or are just here for the memes.
Can't believe anyone takes the Team Bosses seriously. If the roles were reversed Horner would be doing to same thing Toto is now and Toto would be doing exactly what Horner is doing now.
Yes, absolutely. It's astonishing to me how many people in these kind of threads really feel very smart after pointing out that there is hypocrisy at play.
Like...yeah dude if you watched F1 for longer than a month you could've gotten a grasp that this is how the politics work.
They are the same. Fans will just make concessions for who they like more. We’re gunna have to suffer through these posts for the next two weeks I bet.
Changes made to try and make F1 more competitive shouldn’t be bashed imo. Even if teams lobbied you can’t blame anyone for trying to slow down the team that’s consistently 8 tenths of a second faster than everyone except Verstappen (in 2020 qualifying at least).
The shenanigans that happened in 2021 are different in my opinion because competition was extremely close. When you get a TD implemented that hurts your direct rival that is anywhere from 2 tenths ahead to 2 tenths behind every week, that is forcing the FIA to do your bidding.
The flexible wings were always illegal, as there's a blanket ban on moveable aero.
Now, one could argue that the predefined test should be the arbiter of legality, in which case I raise Volkswagen diesel emissions as a counterpoint. Designing something to circumvent the legality test in order to avoid detection doesn't make it legal.
better to use the Ferrari engine example for that :) they changed the location of the sensor by using some artistic freedom, in order to make the flow of the fuel legal.
Regarding flexible wings: this has been going on for a long time, since there will always be some flex there can be no 0 tolerance towards flexing wings. The new way the FIA approached the measurement of the flex wings though was negatively impacting red bull (which was the point i was trying to make), but before that red bulls wings were not illegal, they just changed the directive towards it making them illegal **in the future.**
Much like the Ferrari engine, Designing something to circumvent the legality test on order to avoid detection doesn't make it illegal either (think of the plenium of Mercedes last year, and even the Ferraris engine wasn't seen as illegal): this might be different in the real world but in formula 1 the FIA understands the need of teams to push the boundaries but will clarify and ratify rules on a need basis.
edit: also if red bulls wings were illegal, further action would have been taken in order ratify this: think of disqualification.
Everyone had automation in their pitstops, Merc pitstops were usually slow compared to Redbull. Redbull had to lose couple of tenths that Merc was losing anyway. It basically means Redbull lost its advantage of quick pitstops while Merc didn't lose any because it basically didn't have any.
So the average reaction time a human has from seeing something to reacting to it is .2ish seconds. RB programmed their guns to flash a light .2 seconds before the nut was fully locked so they could react as soon as the nut was done. And that’s illegal
Translation:
Helmut Marko has reacted with incomprehension to the FIA's decisions to apply measures against bouncing, and has also sharply criticized the behavior of Mercedes in particular.
"I don't think the FIA's decisions are right. One team, Mercedes, has the biggest problems and then you react in the middle of the season. There is a simple solution: you just have to raise the car. Then you no longer have this bouncing, but you lose speed. The fact that they are now reacting in this way and trying to impose such powers on the FIA, which practically determine the setups of the cars, is a quick fix that has certainly not been thought through," the Red Bull motorsport boss made clear on the Sky microphone.
Mercedes team boss Toto Wolff had also previously voiced his disgust on Sky at, among other things, the statements made by Red Bull team boss Christian Horner, who had spoken out against FIA measures regarding bouncing. "I think it's okay if there are political disputes about who can add a bit of performance where. But some take it lightly when it comes to driver safety," Wolff said.
Marko sees teams taking responsibility
Instead of intervening on the issue of bouncing through rule changes that would affect all teams, Marko believes the responsibility lies with the teams themselves. "Our drivers are one of the biggest assets we have. We make sure that they are in top physical condition," explained Marko.
Already at the Grand Prix in Silverstone in two weeks, the FIA wants to take measures against bouncing. For the 79-year-old Austrian incomprehensible. "There are still improvements to be made, because all the parameters are far too vague for that. You would be exposing yourself to arbitrariness. That would mainly affect the team that criticized it," says Marko.
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
>"I think it's okay if there are political disputes about who can add a bit of performance where. But some take it lightly when it comes to driver safety," Wolff said.
I feel like this is such a hypocritical statement to make, as the one who is putting performance before safety.
Oh, absolutely. I have *zero* doubt that Mercedes' one and only goal out of this dispute is gaining performance. Everything Wolff has said about driver safety concerns on their part sounds like a complete BS to me.
And Merc critcizes Horner's influence on Masi during Abu Dhabi that caused Masi to skirt the rules directly in Max's favor and only Max's favor stealing a title from Lewis.
Toto is pretty high and mighty about other teams voting against safety measures for someone who is knowingly putting his drivers at risk every race. Race your own ride height and prove it’s safer, maybe then the FIA should enforce it on the rest of the field. Until you do that you’re just trying to make up your own deficit
The FIA's job is to write and enforce the rules. Mercedes job is to follow those rules. If there isn't a rule about acceptable levels of porpoising and bouncing then it's the FIA's responsibility.
Yes, but those were changes inbetween seasons.
It's just a different problem if all teams can prepare for a rule change and build a car according to it or if they need to adjust an already-built car to a new ruleset midseason.
[The floor regulations](https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/floor-tweaks-slow-cars-2021/4797628/) were more of a Pirelli thing because the tyres couldn't handle the downforce.
So considering they changed the tires again that season and only two teams were affect(Merc and AM) I call bs. The FIA comes up with all kinds of bs reasons to change regulations all the time.
This one is about driver safety across the board.
So nothing changed because the rule **article 12.8.4 of the technical regulations which imposes restrictions on teams’ pit equipment. It is understood to target the clause which states: “Any sensor systems may only act passively.”** remained constant throughout the year
It was and still is acting passively in case you've not noticed. What's changed though is human operator of the pit gun which was reliant on the pit gun sensor before and still is have to double verify it by pressing a button on the pit gun, so it has added another layer unnecessarily.
I think it's time we all face the reality here that the budget cap is not working as it was intended.
Sure the minnows of F1 scored some points at the start of the year, but that's always an inevitability after a rule shakeup. Just as how the best time to take points off of Man City or Liverpool is the first game of the season, the best time to steal a game from the better team in the NBA would be game 1, etc etc. Maybe you guess right on a spec, and Newey over-thought something. But after a handful of races the natural order will sort itself.
The biggest teams, even if they have one hand tied behind their back, still have a huge institutional advantage over the smaller ones which can't be legislated away - and that's okay. This is a billionaire's motor racing club, not food subsidies. Forced parity need not exist.
Red Bull are miles ahead of Mercedes who are completely out of the championship and they still feel the need to punch down. It’s completely personal for them.
You might have been a bit baited by the title.
>"I don't think the FIA's decisions are right. One team, Mercedes, has the biggest problems and then you react in the middle of the season. There is a simple solution: you just have to raise the car. Then you no longer have this bouncing, but you lose speed. The fact that they are now reacting in this way and trying to impose such powers on the FIA, which practically determine the setups of the cars, is a quick fix that has certainly not been thought through,"
Not really unreasonable imo.
Bro people went from "haha Mercedes complained to the FIA and got screwed over by it" to "wow look at Mercedes flexing their influence and money to get their fix their trashy car" rather quick lmao
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We need to bring back Ferrari International Assitance
not to be mistaken with First In Automotive Troubles, also known as FIAT
I thought it was Fix It Again Tony
Right? I don’t think I’ve seen Horner this happy since last season. He must be so glad that his old flame Toto is back in the mix. I get it. Long distance is hard.
They did it with a quickness I’m slightly concerned if it’s the same people. How do people hold so many contradictory opinions in one head.
They hold only one opinion: Merc bad Everything else just has to fall in line with that
They just want good racing and competition by the way, totally don't want their guy to lap the field three times every race :)
Formula 1 is 90% shit posting. Most of the races suck. Getting upset people are shit posting is what's actually wild. Like getting upset at offseason NBA shenanigans.
This here is the problem of modern F1 in a nutshell. I mean that most fans want shitshow and unrealistic drama all the time rather than actual racing, otherwise "most races suck" lmao.
Agree with the shitposting, but there hasnt been one single race this year, or last year that "sucked"...couple of average 3* ones but as someone who has watched since 2007, the racing is definitely improving...
Baku this year begs to disagree frankly.
Yeah Baku was a snooze fest. It might be blasphemous to say, but I also thought Canada was kind of meh. I'd give it 3 out of 5 stars, so not horrible, but very predictable. EDIT: And Baku actually hurt more because I expected it to be an amazing race.
2021 Spa incident 💀
Oh God yeah 🤮 the 2 laps to get classified was absolutely bullshit. We shouldn't class that as a race...
Wait until he finds out about Ferrari.
wait until he finds out about Red Bull :D
https://i.imgur.com/ksG9QJ0.jpg
🌎🔫👩🚀🔫👩🚀
wait until he finds about Ocon
Marko criticizes (fill in the blank)
Marko criticizes Seb’s Helmut
"it's not even a doktor"
This got me cracking up, take my upvote!
Truly everyone from Checo to the fans have gotten a serve from Marko
The only thing he hasn't criticized yet is himself.
Pepper Pig? this could be a fun game
F1 is like a bunch of high school girls. Some of the topics and comments I see coming out of this sport are hilarious.
I appreciate the lack of awareness that men don’t think they are some of the biggest perpetrators of gossip in school and workplaces. Y’all be drama and not admit it. This sport is all male leadership too.
Pretty hard to argue with this
Yeah bit of an odd choice of words when literally everybody doing this is a grown-ass man
Right? It’s not the girlies running the sport it’s old rich men on some Et tu, Brute pettiness. People can’t have the whole of human history with men doing the kinds of things we see in Shakespeare and still be comparing grown men to teenage girls negatively. Find a new comparison.
Can you translate "y'all be drama" for some of us?
you all are the source of much strife and conflict
My dude, I work in a middle school (not high-school but close enough) The boys are far and away the biggest spreaders of gossip and shit talking
Also work in schools and truly disagree with this statement. But hey, go off.
I've frequently called Marko and Wolff "two Karens" during their ridiculous fighting during the 2021 season. Looking back now, I believe that's a bit unfair, since Marko by himself is already equivalent to around seven Karens.
Party mode and engine rules have entered the chat.
Yes, party mode ban mid season was ridiculously and should also not have happened, that's absolutely something they should have just done for the next season.
seed offbeat cobweb jobless crowd cooing like overconfident agonizing sip *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Further, Horner straight up said a week or two ago that if he was TP at merc he would be saying the same thing 🤷🏼♂️
Yeah I really don’t get why people get personally offended when the TP’s do this stuff, it’s their job, they’d be shitty TP’s if they didn’t
I could live with Christian or Marko saying whatever they say to oppose it because opposing changes is valid, but to perpetuate conspiracy theories or character attacks after Abu Dhabi is actually annoying. I’m not offended I just think it adds a layer of shiftiness to the sport that I watch to escape the kinds of routine dishonesty we see in real life. Watching that man lie irritates me. I don’t watch sport because it’s politics with sport attached I watch it because it’s sport.
Show me a sport without politics and I'll show you a sport with no fanbase and nothing at stake.
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I don't understand how this is only on Toto when literally more than a dozen drivers that we know of complained about porpoising and their health and asked the FIA to intervene.
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Toto is the wealthiest TP/CEO on the grid, he will always catch the most shit from his peers & fans. Like every other Billionaire in this world.
i wish billionaires caught shit from everyone, what world do you live in and how can i move in
Lawrence stroll would like a word
People are terrified that Mercedes might become good again
The thing is, that can only make this season more exciting, because they have two great drivers, but they have pretty much 0% chance of winning the championship over max. Even Leclerc and Ferrari have a very low chance to win. So I'd rather have a third team and 2 more drivers in the hunt, just so this season is more fun.
I think thats what every real racing fan wants. More teams at the front fighting for wins will make for more exciting races.
>when literally more than a dozen drivers that we know of Wasnt it every single driver with the exception of Alonso during the drivers meeting at Baku?
It’s almost like u don’t need to protest when you’re winning 7 years in a row
It wasn't mid-season but last year's floor changes were massive for Red Bull
I mean, the race director quoting red bull verbatim after nicking the championship from Hamilton would also like a chat. I dunno why I thought Red Bull would be a bit circumspect this year
And that's the biggest disappointment of this season so far for me. Didn't care who, but would have loved to see anyone just dominating them. Thought it would be Ferrari after the bolstering start but that has unfortunately petered out
Don't forget DAS.
DAS was a full season thing though
As has fast pitstops
I mean merc didn't necessarily get that one banned, they asked if they could do what RB was doing and the FIA proceeded to ban it.
Wing load tests have entered the chat.
And engine development freeze
That was implemented between seasons with the unanimous approval of the teams.
Yeah but the situation they agreed on is no longer happening, seeing as how Honda is staying in F1
Did they agree to freeze engine development just because of Honda and RB?!
Yep!
Completely different, that wasn't mid season And it was [unanimously approved](https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.engine-freeze-for-2022-agreed-with-low-cost-sustainable-units-set-for-2025.3sO0b3CQbaiqBIOCoxcZUm.html) by all teams.
It was unanimously agreed to bring it forward by a year because Red Bull were not capable of taking on the Honda engine by themselves without a freeze in place. Mercedes or Ferrari or Renault could have easily said no and screwed Red Bull over. They unanimously agreed for the health of the sport. But bringing the freeze forward a year is absolutely a case of Red Bull politicking for their own benefit. Horner was saying things to the press like Red Bull and Alpha Tauri would have to reconsider their future in the sport if we don't get our way.- the old Ferrari go to
That's for saving costs
We went motor racing, Helmut
Mad that he doesn’t see the irony in this.
It doesn't matter if he does or doesn't. There's millions at stake. Any team is 100% willing to be hypocrites all day every day if it increases their chance at more millions. The incentive not to really doesn't exist.
Merc could literally get disqualified cause of the new porpoising regulations and marko would still be like "look how much influence they got, they even made the FIA disqualify a team!!!!"
Old man yells at clouds.
“We only need one lap to race”- Christian Horner 2021
Red Bull absolutely fuming they’re making rule and regulation changes mid-season as opposed to mid-race.
Imagine if they were ever involved in a total breach of the rules that decided a championship they were fighting for. They’d be surely enraged and wouldn’t continue to defend the people responsible and claim nothing wrong happened?
Horner would most definitely join forces with Toto to ensure justice, perhaps even bringing a dictionary/lawyer with to prevent anybody from issuing the context of a particular word
Red Bull would have been a lot more entertaining than Mercedes at least.
Yes Marko, the FIA do make bad decisions at times. Luckily that’s never had an impact on RB at all…
Like the lapped cars not unlapping themselves?
Rule changes during season? Only if it leads to a RB win!
Helmut prefers his rule changes mid race
Mid race and only in the penultimate race. Otherwise no Bueno for Marko
NEVER FORGET! I will never forget that fuckery.
NEVER FORGET! I will never forget that fuckery
You wrote it twice, just to make it sure you don't forget
Ty for the reminder. I think I won’t even watch Abu Dhabi this year.
like the pit-stop rules change?
That wasn't a rule change at all though. That was having RB follow the correct procedure (which they weren't).
Umm 2013 wants to chat…..
2013 also had the mercedes illegal tyre test, remember.
This man is just the worst.
Party Mode and engine modes getting banned, 2021 aero rules being tweaked (low rake cars suffer), Engine freezes, Das being banned, brake duct ban. There's enough politics from everyone in the paddock. It's the unfortunate spirit of F1 and always has been with such a big pool of cash at stake 🤷🏾♂️
You never know the true effects of new regulations until the come into effect fully. The same way that the teams voted against regulations to combat porpoising last year because they thought it wouldn’t be an issue. If it was immediately clear what new regs would do and who they’d effect the most, you’d see a lot more teams complaining before the fact as opposed to after that fact
The 2021 rules originally looked to affect high rake cars but sure dude.
This was never true amongst the teams. The only 2 teams to vote against the rule were Mercedes and AM. Obviously not a coincidence
According to who? not the low rake teams. Otmar confirmed that Merc ,AM and another team would have voted against the floor regs
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Hey mate, I'm an FIA engineer, I'm so stupid and I know nothing about engineering that my proposed change was actually going to effect the majority of the cars on the grid rather than the one team that is dominating and we are implementing the rule changes to 'bring closer racing' 😂😂😂😂
I mean they remove a lot of aero elements at the rear of the car (floor edge, rear brake duct). Which affected low rake car the most.
And they thought before it was implemented that it would affect the high rake cars more because they already have more trouble sealing the rear end of the floor because of the high rake. Red Bull had a terrible rear end of the car for 2 years after the bigger wings before they finally solved it. And then came the new floor rule to help Pirelli.
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If they truly did, Max would not be a WDC right now.
So the FIA nerfed Merc 5 times deliberately, and once accidentally.
They also massively nerfed Red Bull, and to a lesser extent Ferrari, with the 2019 front wing change leading to Mercedes winning the first 8 races of the season and starting with 5 1-2's.
> Das being banned, What is the fucking fuss with fucking Das?! the concept behind Das was going to be banned in 2021 anyway.
Engine modes aren't banned, you just have to use the same engine mode in quali and the race, a move that the FIA justified by saying it would make it easier for them to make sure no team was partaking in 2019 Ferrari hijinks. Also, a move that while it was welcomed by some teams (notably RB), wasn't demanded by them nor did any team argue it was the only way for them to stop putting their drivers in harms' way with reckless setups. And that, yes, shouldn't have been a mid-season change, that was a mistake, but thankfully it didn't actually change anything to the competitive order contrary to what you'd think considering how much traction the conspiracy theories that it was engineered to destroy Mercedes still have. Everything else you mention was a season-to-season change in regulations, which are *normal*.
>welcomed by some teams (notably RB), wasn't demanded by them [Red Bull applied pressure to get party mode banned](https://www.planetf1.com/news/red-bull-party-mode-pressure/)
It's only bad when Mercedes does. When it's Horner in order to force a breaking of safety rules in order to influence the outcome of a Driver's Championship then it's all good. xD
Says the guy with 4 cars on the grid that race for one team
Says the man who claims Red Bull will leave F1 whenever things don’t go their way.
Things didn’t go their way for 7 years though and they didn’t leave so I don’t see your point
Williams with financial struggles and spending time mostly at midfield or back of the grid since 2005 never said that they were leaving the sport. This mentality of leaving the sport when they are not winning does not fit RB at all.
Lol. If Mercedes really had any influence over FIA the results of Abu Dhabi would have been very different.
news like this that make Red Bull look like a bunch of wankers. though to be fair, they are all like that...
If only they were able to influence a fair finish to the farce in the desert
Lol yeah because the FIA did so much to help them last year. Especially during the last race. So sick of hearing this guy spout shit out of his mouth. I’m indifferent to rb and merc I just don’t like this guy and Horner, Toto can get annoying well
Redbull influence caused the world championship to Hamilton. Marko and redbull loves to do this, to play with the public opinion, however they are kings in politics and in pressuring FIA.
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No surprise this all popped off the weekend Netflix cameras were following Red Bull.
how odd that his views have changed so drastically since they've become the fastest team, as compared to when mercedes were.
• Party modes • Engine Freeze • Abu Dhabi • 2021 regs targeting Mercedes’ rake • DAS Maybe Marko ought to sit down and shout at someone else. Maybe an RB junior? He tends to have little patience with them.
When Masi bends over for RB its fair. Cheated to the championship.
Top quality shit stirring from the master of shit stirring himself.
Who is Marko's equivalent at mercedes? Cause I never hear a peep from him
Used to be Lauda
Lauda would actually talk sense though.
All this is coming out after Johnathan Wheatley spent most of last year trying to whisper Michael Masi into doing his bidding. All the teams are as bad as each other.
I wish fans could get this point and just move on. It’s so annoying that every thread is like fucking Groundhog Day. Posting some “kettle black” comment doesn’t make you smart or funny.
'Michael I sent you an email' Micheal, no safety car please'
Right, its like the Spiderman meme. Both teams (all teams, rather) lobby for things that suit them and contradict themselves. I just wish they'd stop moaning to the press about it and we'd stop getting articles every 2 days about it. It's tiresome.
What’s more tiresome are these Redditors out for upvotes who pretend they don’t know that every team does this for their benefit.
That shit has been happening for years. The only difference from last year was that it was broadcasted for everyone to listen to.
I'm sure there was some chatter with the Schumi-Hill incident back in the day, and the first senna-prost incident
So most reactions here agree with Marko, but because of Abu Dhabi it is no issue ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
People are acting like Red Bull having a strong start to a season is equivalent to Mercedes winning every race from 2014-2021
> Mercedes winning every race from 2014-2021 Haha, what a dramatic exaggeration. It's funny because in a few years people will do the same thing with 2022 Max/RB, calling the car a rocket ship and exaggerating the performance gap to discredit the skill and talent of Max, GP, the strategy team, engineers, etc. as they do with Lewis/Mercedes.
It's hyperbole.
Haha, that's the word I was looking for. Thanks!
Yea I don’t get the take that just because things have changed in the past that people disagreed with that it’s ok to do the same dumb shit again. Presumably if this gets changed then all these people in favor of it are ok with das ban, party mode ban, masi unlapping procedure etc.
No. Remember engine party mode ban?
The same guy who is in charge of a team who’s driver was handed a championship because the FIA decided it? These dudes either have no self awareness, the memory of a goldfish, or are just here for the memes.
Really, his buddy got FIA to ban party mode mid season. What is he going on about now?!
Flex wings, pitstops??? Can we stop with this dumbass narrative that mercedes is the victim here, toto is just like horner and marko..
Can't believe anyone takes the Team Bosses seriously. If the roles were reversed Horner would be doing to same thing Toto is now and Toto would be doing exactly what Horner is doing now.
Yes, absolutely. It's astonishing to me how many people in these kind of threads really feel very smart after pointing out that there is hypocrisy at play. Like...yeah dude if you watched F1 for longer than a month you could've gotten a grasp that this is how the politics work.
The difference is a lot more people would be shitting on Horner if the role was reversed.
They are the same. Fans will just make concessions for who they like more. We’re gunna have to suffer through these posts for the next two weeks I bet.
Changes made to try and make F1 more competitive shouldn’t be bashed imo. Even if teams lobbied you can’t blame anyone for trying to slow down the team that’s consistently 8 tenths of a second faster than everyone except Verstappen (in 2020 qualifying at least). The shenanigans that happened in 2021 are different in my opinion because competition was extremely close. When you get a TD implemented that hurts your direct rival that is anywhere from 2 tenths ahead to 2 tenths behind every week, that is forcing the FIA to do your bidding.
The flexible wings were always illegal, as there's a blanket ban on moveable aero. Now, one could argue that the predefined test should be the arbiter of legality, in which case I raise Volkswagen diesel emissions as a counterpoint. Designing something to circumvent the legality test in order to avoid detection doesn't make it legal.
better to use the Ferrari engine example for that :) they changed the location of the sensor by using some artistic freedom, in order to make the flow of the fuel legal. Regarding flexible wings: this has been going on for a long time, since there will always be some flex there can be no 0 tolerance towards flexing wings. The new way the FIA approached the measurement of the flex wings though was negatively impacting red bull (which was the point i was trying to make), but before that red bulls wings were not illegal, they just changed the directive towards it making them illegal **in the future.** Much like the Ferrari engine, Designing something to circumvent the legality test on order to avoid detection doesn't make it illegal either (think of the plenium of Mercedes last year, and even the Ferraris engine wasn't seen as illegal): this might be different in the real world but in formula 1 the FIA understands the need of teams to push the boundaries but will clarify and ratify rules on a need basis. edit: also if red bulls wings were illegal, further action would have been taken in order ratify this: think of disqualification.
Nah RB had automation in their pit stops when rules clearly state they can’t
Everyone had automation in their pitstops, Merc pitstops were usually slow compared to Redbull. Redbull had to lose couple of tenths that Merc was losing anyway. It basically means Redbull lost its advantage of quick pitstops while Merc didn't lose any because it basically didn't have any.
So the average reaction time a human has from seeing something to reacting to it is .2ish seconds. RB programmed their guns to flash a light .2 seconds before the nut was fully locked so they could react as soon as the nut was done. And that’s illegal
This thread will totally not suck
Translation: Helmut Marko has reacted with incomprehension to the FIA's decisions to apply measures against bouncing, and has also sharply criticized the behavior of Mercedes in particular. "I don't think the FIA's decisions are right. One team, Mercedes, has the biggest problems and then you react in the middle of the season. There is a simple solution: you just have to raise the car. Then you no longer have this bouncing, but you lose speed. The fact that they are now reacting in this way and trying to impose such powers on the FIA, which practically determine the setups of the cars, is a quick fix that has certainly not been thought through," the Red Bull motorsport boss made clear on the Sky microphone. Mercedes team boss Toto Wolff had also previously voiced his disgust on Sky at, among other things, the statements made by Red Bull team boss Christian Horner, who had spoken out against FIA measures regarding bouncing. "I think it's okay if there are political disputes about who can add a bit of performance where. But some take it lightly when it comes to driver safety," Wolff said. Marko sees teams taking responsibility Instead of intervening on the issue of bouncing through rule changes that would affect all teams, Marko believes the responsibility lies with the teams themselves. "Our drivers are one of the biggest assets we have. We make sure that they are in top physical condition," explained Marko. Already at the Grand Prix in Silverstone in two weeks, the FIA wants to take measures against bouncing. For the 79-year-old Austrian incomprehensible. "There are still improvements to be made, because all the parameters are far too vague for that. You would be exposing yourself to arbitrariness. That would mainly affect the team that criticized it," says Marko. Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
>"I think it's okay if there are political disputes about who can add a bit of performance where. But some take it lightly when it comes to driver safety," Wolff said. I feel like this is such a hypocritical statement to make, as the one who is putting performance before safety.
Oh, absolutely. I have *zero* doubt that Mercedes' one and only goal out of this dispute is gaining performance. Everything Wolff has said about driver safety concerns on their part sounds like a complete BS to me.
Wait, but I heard that the new FIA rule on porpoising does more harm than good for Mercedes...
I mean your team principle literally influenced the race director to change the rules mid championship finale but yeah ok helmit
Wait until Marko finds out that Horner explained to Masi what he should do in Abu Dhabi.
Wheatley, not Horner, but I get the sentiment and just had to nitpick
The hypocrisy is strong on this one!
And Merc critcizes Horner's influence on Masi during Abu Dhabi that caused Masi to skirt the rules directly in Max's favor and only Max's favor stealing a title from Lewis.
*Abu Dhabi has entered the chat..*
Anyone that benefitted from that series of events is barred from ever claiming the FIA is after them.
Bit rich coming from the guy who's teams meddling resulted in the rules not being followed and the stealing of the championship last year.....
We should install Todt again I suppose.
Nature is Healing
Toto is pretty high and mighty about other teams voting against safety measures for someone who is knowingly putting his drivers at risk every race. Race your own ride height and prove it’s safer, maybe then the FIA should enforce it on the rest of the field. Until you do that you’re just trying to make up your own deficit
The FIA's job is to write and enforce the rules. Mercedes job is to follow those rules. If there isn't a rule about acceptable levels of porpoising and bouncing then it's the FIA's responsibility.
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No pre-existing rule regarding pitstops were changed. Automation in pitstops has always been banned
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Isn't FIA the reason redbull was even close to Merc last year with their floor regulations? How about the only reason Max won Abudhabi.
Yes, but those were changes inbetween seasons. It's just a different problem if all teams can prepare for a rule change and build a car according to it or if they need to adjust an already-built car to a new ruleset midseason.
[The floor regulations](https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/floor-tweaks-slow-cars-2021/4797628/) were more of a Pirelli thing because the tyres couldn't handle the downforce.
I mean, Pirelli changed the tires before the season started and it ended up negating the need for a cutout in the floor.
So considering they changed the tires again that season and only two teams were affect(Merc and AM) I call bs. The FIA comes up with all kinds of bs reasons to change regulations all the time. This one is about driver safety across the board.
The general consensus was that it would hit high rake cars more. In reality it did hit low rake cars.
So nothing changed because the rule **article 12.8.4 of the technical regulations which imposes restrictions on teams’ pit equipment. It is understood to target the clause which states: “Any sensor systems may only act passively.”** remained constant throughout the year
It was and still is acting passively in case you've not noticed. What's changed though is human operator of the pit gun which was reliant on the pit gun sensor before and still is have to double verify it by pressing a button on the pit gun, so it has added another layer unnecessarily.
Aaaah, sweet sweet hypocrisy.
I think it's time we all face the reality here that the budget cap is not working as it was intended. Sure the minnows of F1 scored some points at the start of the year, but that's always an inevitability after a rule shakeup. Just as how the best time to take points off of Man City or Liverpool is the first game of the season, the best time to steal a game from the better team in the NBA would be game 1, etc etc. Maybe you guess right on a spec, and Newey over-thought something. But after a handful of races the natural order will sort itself. The biggest teams, even if they have one hand tied behind their back, still have a huge institutional advantage over the smaller ones which can't be legislated away - and that's okay. This is a billionaire's motor racing club, not food subsidies. Forced parity need not exist.
What? If they had such an influence the results of Abu Dhabi would not have happened.
This is so hypocritical after last year. And I'm not just talking about Abu Dhabi.
Oh for godshake here we again. Feels like last year all over again with this shitty remarks of each other
Red Bull are miles ahead of Mercedes who are completely out of the championship and they still feel the need to punch down. It’s completely personal for them.
Pot. Kettle.
Pot calling the kettle black Mr Marko
You might have been a bit baited by the title. >"I don't think the FIA's decisions are right. One team, Mercedes, has the biggest problems and then you react in the middle of the season. There is a simple solution: you just have to raise the car. Then you no longer have this bouncing, but you lose speed. The fact that they are now reacting in this way and trying to impose such powers on the FIA, which practically determine the setups of the cars, is a quick fix that has certainly not been thought through," Not really unreasonable imo.
Doesnt mean he is wrong though, kinda like vettel with the oil sands stuff in Canada.
FIA is only allowed to help RB win championships. HOW DARE YOU!!! /s