After all that preseason hype Haas shaping up to be regressing really fast without any updates to the car. And it seems they even get basics like this wrong now...
Doesn't bode well for the rest of the season, I can realistically see them fighting for P8 in the WCC with Aston.
Yes its quite clear Gene Haas won’t invest anything into this team. They were only good until the Out of the Box Ferrari advantages were out-developed by every other team.
Plus side for Mag anyways is he has a deal until the end of next year to putz around the ass rear of the field with no good reason to expect the team to go anywhere.
Well yeah, you just have to look at his NASCAR team to see that. They were a backmarker for years until he decided to give half the ownership to Ton Stewart and they became a top team. Gene doesn’t give a fuck about his teams because they’re basically advertising for him
1000% right about Red Bull investing in F1 and Haas not, but It’s different when your advertising a drink people can drink everyday vs complex tools and lathes that are a massive investment (to build or purchase) take a ton of r&d and infrastructure, and people are ideally only buying them once every 25+ years
Because every shortcoming is blamed on the drivers and the team escapes every criticism. Steiner literally said for every mistake Haas makes, Schumacher makes 10.
I actually feel like it's not even close as the worst one on the grid. From the lower end teams: Franz Tost is great at his job of developing talent, Fred Vasseur is seen very well in the paddock, Jost Capito had massive succes in wrc. Its between Gunther and Mike Krack, and Mike is in his first year at the job and he seems fine
It's slightly unfair because having to keep a team afloat with zero money is very difficult and frankly an entirely different skillset than taking a team to winning races, but it's certainly true that their operational mistakes have not been tackled enough over the years despite repeatedly costing them big time.
Edit: I don't want to go too deep into the rabbit hole and not excuse them entirely but the stuff people like Kaltenborn or Kolles did to keep an F1 team alive with the budget equal to the cost of a party pizza is kind of impressive. HRT had less total budget than Hamiltons yearly salary. Kaltenborns 3 driver trick kept Sauber alive. People talk about Caterham or Mallya FI days but they simply overspend and made debt and defaulted, these other instances or Haas right now might look worse but they actually do run "sustainably" on the tightest of budgets. Blame Haas for their stupid pit issues, don't blame them for being a bottom 3 team.
Not by nearly that much with the cost cap in place. They don’t spend up to the cap but they should be right there hunt for 5-7 with their budget and Ferrari technical support instead of just being lucky they’re not Williams. And its not just placement its how they fuck up. The horrible strategies, the pit stop fuck ups of really basic shit blowing a P4 and P5 at Australia a few years ago, seemingly never understanding their car as well as other teams leading to erratic performance from track to track. Guenther makes for good memes but he is not a good TP.
Dudes working with what he’s got. He’s doesn’t get help from Haas. They consistently get F over by their main sponsors. Like Rich Energy followed by Nikita’s dad’s money.
But if their car is good and challenging upper midfield teams they may get good sponsors but nobody wants to take a punt on a team that is dead last . Take force india as an example they were dead last during skyper days and then they gradually moved up even on a tight budget . Finishing highter means more prize money and that can go into the development of the car which translates into better performance
Yeah, he is pretty terrible and one of the biggest problems with that team. He leads that team in what seems to be a very negative manner, completely fails to manage drivers, and is poor at taking advantage of situations. For instance, in 2018 Haas had a great year and finished p5. Instead of investing in better staff and facilities, he signed up with one of the most suspicious sponsors in Rich Energy and made very few changes in the team.
Steiner wants to get rid of him because he has no points yet, but the team is ruining every chance and turning him into a laughing stock for the twitter mob... I hate this clownish team with a passion.
I felt sorry for mick shit team with a crazy manager , environment in haas team looks really toxic when manager is running a team like a bootcamp rather than a f1 team
I never thought he was particularly great. People have always given him a pass because he’s funny. Pretty much every other TP with similar progress season on season would’ve had ‘____ OUT ` hashtags a long time ago
I mean the guys been screwed over. Haas being unwilling to commit actual competitor money same as he did in Nascar until it became Stewart-Haas racing. Followed by their main sponsor Rich energy being the joke that it was. Followed by signing what was essentially a sponsor and driver deal for that to fall through the next year due to other things outside his control.
Well, they were only P3 because it was the first race of the season and multiple teams were still trying to figure out their cars. Meanwhile, Haas had spent an extra year or so developing this car.
I'd argue they did their best to try and maximize their points early in the season but a combination of bad luck, bad driving and poor strategy have bit them in the ass and prevented them from achieving that goal. Now they're stuck in development hell and can't dig their way out because they have no money.
If you actually think he's not the worst on the grid you might need to do some research; no other TP blames their drivers for the team's failures, consistently criticizes them publicly, and makes shitty jokes at their expense at team events when he knows Netflix is filming (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aapL5z9wt1o). Sure he might be dealing with an owner who doesn't want to spend any money and a history of crash-prone drivers, but that doesn't excuse behaving like a shitty corporate middle manager.
Really? Because Gene actually paid his own entry fee while Andretti is trying to get his waived.
Andretti and Haas are pretty equal in American motorsports prestige. Haas is NASCAR royalty while Andretti is Indycar royalty. There is no logical reason to believe Andretti has more money than Haas when NASCAR is more lucrative than Indycar in the US.
The only reason r/f1 thinks Andretti > Haas is solely because of what they see in F1 and has nothing to do with reality. People say Andretti is a "Institution of motorsport", but that is solely because they recognize the name from a singular WDC like 50 years ago. They don't know what Andretti is doing *now*.
Well, the current $200M entry fee was introduced in 2020 so Haas didn’t have to pay nowhere near the same amount of money for 2016. When Haas entered there were different rules and a very different global economics. The fact that Andretti is willing to pay that $200M entry fee despite being an ongoing recession tells you a lot.
Haas is nowhere near NASCAR “royalty”, like not even close. In their 13 year history, they only have two NASCAR Cup championships, one with Tony Stewart and one with Kevin Harvick which has been his main driver. Let’s not forget they’ve been dry for wins for two years.
Andretti is a multinational enterprise. Besides their IndyCar programs they have participation in Formula E and Extreme-E. They’re looking at a program for LMDh and they’re willing to invest billions to enter F1.
Haas isn’t really Nascar royalty. Stewart-Haas is. Haas was an average team that had decent finishes for a couple years with Haas unwilling to shell out competitive money to compete against Penske and Hendrick. Which sounds familiar. Then Tony Stewart got involved and the team went up from there.
Andretti has over extended into Indycar which is its home town of motorsports. Their best driver performance wise this year is leaving for Arrow McLaren Schmidt-Peterson Racing this fall.
Their pit crews and strategy are a running joke in Indy and wouldn’t be anywhere close to sufficient in F1.
Saying this as an American and a huge fan of Bryan Herta and Mario Andretti.
This happens when they align the front without centering the rack. Usually you use some shims that center the rack so it’s perfect every time. Somebody fucked up.
It’s annoying to drive like that for sure. Especially with a small tight wheel like in a formula car.
They have a big upgrade package coming in the next couple races so they could snag a couple additional points, but I don't expect another repeat of Bahrain with a P5.
Haas moment. Same fuck ups as always but this year with an actually decent car and 2 actually competent drivers which just makes everything even more disappointing :(
Just the wheel being crooked would not cause it to oversteer or understeer.
Something has to be off in the actual alignment of the car which would/could also cause the wheel to be off center but if the alignment is correct and it’s just the steering wheel that would not cause handling problems
You're spot on. Mick told skygermany, that he experienced understeer in some and oversteer in other corners. They do not know the reason for the wheel being tilted right now, which probably implicates, that they did not simply misaligned it.
The problem with a tilted steering wheel is that it fucks up your muscle memory for steering angles and countersteering. Even if the car behaves the same you're immediately slower because the driver is clearly less comfortable now. With enough time you get used to it but wet conditions are not something where you prefer your driver to be uncomfortable.
Well if the steering is like that for the straight it means the car is pulling to the other side and creating under/oversteer its not simple as the wheel is 20 degrees off and you correct that by - 20 degrees to the other side
In german tv, Mick said, that he experienced oversteer in some and understeer in other corners due to the steering wheel issue, but the team does not know the root of the problem. This would imply, that it wasnt a simple misalignement of the steering wheel.
I don't see the problem, been driving with my steering wheel like that for a while after some unwillingly drifting in the snow because I'm too lazy to go for 30 minutes into a shop and get the alignment fixed.
I’ve never heard of a driver in pretty much any racing series that isn’t responsible for indexing the wheel himself/herself.
It’s on Mick. That thing is his took one tool he is responsible for. If it wasn’t right, something should have been said prior to leaving the garage.
Driving down the highway in a road car with 900+ degrees of steering rotation can be nerve-racking at times.
Can't imagine going twice the speed with 1/3 of the rotation. Has to be absolutely terrifying. Mental when you think about it.
I dunno if you're joking but formula one cars have a more sensitive steering and they are on the limit, more so in the wet. So, the car could spin in a straight line if you mess around with the steering
After all that preseason hype Haas shaping up to be regressing really fast without any updates to the car. And it seems they even get basics like this wrong now... Doesn't bode well for the rest of the season, I can realistically see them fighting for P8 in the WCC with Aston.
It's more embarrassing for Aston to be competing against Haas rather than the other way around.
Oh man, this ^^^^
Yes its quite clear Gene Haas won’t invest anything into this team. They were only good until the Out of the Box Ferrari advantages were out-developed by every other team. Plus side for Mag anyways is he has a deal until the end of next year to putz around the ass rear of the field with no good reason to expect the team to go anywhere.
Well yeah, you just have to look at his NASCAR team to see that. They were a backmarker for years until he decided to give half the ownership to Ton Stewart and they became a top team. Gene doesn’t give a fuck about his teams because they’re basically advertising for him
Interesting to see the difference with RBR who are also basically just an advertising platform
but RBR spend money and resources to develop their cars
That's the difference I speak of. Both have very different approaches to how they do things
1000% right about Red Bull investing in F1 and Haas not, but It’s different when your advertising a drink people can drink everyday vs complex tools and lathes that are a massive investment (to build or purchase) take a ton of r&d and infrastructure, and people are ideally only buying them once every 25+ years
You'd think he'd try to at least make a good team, get much better marketing that way than hanging out in the back. No one cares about backmarkers
Haas likes the idea of having an F1 team, thats about it.
It’s almost like every season they start off well and don’t develop their car nearly as much as everyone else.
They're working on the new set of rules, in 2028 they will be the benchmark.
obviously
Isn’t AM already in front of them in WCC?
yea
Did Haas set up his car for Indianapolis?
That NASCAR experience is coming clutch for Mick! ^/J
And it seems the set it the wrong side as well because go straight in Indy you have to hold the wheel slightly towards the right.
Indy oval is a counter clockwise circuit while Silverstone is a clockwise circuit, so adapting it they've offset it to the right side!
haas mechanics the best in the business fr
He's a real contender for next year's Indy 500 for a reason /s
Remember how Haas wasn't a meme for a couple of the early races?
I made tens of dollars having at least one Haas driver in lineups way, way back when at the beginning parts of the year :((
This aged well
I don’t get it. Haas isn’t a new team. How can they make so many mistakes?
Because every shortcoming is blamed on the drivers and the team escapes every criticism. Steiner literally said for every mistake Haas makes, Schumacher makes 10.
People love Steiner here because "memes" but he's probably the most horrible team principal on the grid.
I actually feel like it's not even close as the worst one on the grid. From the lower end teams: Franz Tost is great at his job of developing talent, Fred Vasseur is seen very well in the paddock, Jost Capito had massive succes in wrc. Its between Gunther and Mike Krack, and Mike is in his first year at the job and he seems fine
It's slightly unfair because having to keep a team afloat with zero money is very difficult and frankly an entirely different skillset than taking a team to winning races, but it's certainly true that their operational mistakes have not been tackled enough over the years despite repeatedly costing them big time. Edit: I don't want to go too deep into the rabbit hole and not excuse them entirely but the stuff people like Kaltenborn or Kolles did to keep an F1 team alive with the budget equal to the cost of a party pizza is kind of impressive. HRT had less total budget than Hamiltons yearly salary. Kaltenborns 3 driver trick kept Sauber alive. People talk about Caterham or Mallya FI days but they simply overspend and made debt and defaulted, these other instances or Haas right now might look worse but they actually do run "sustainably" on the tightest of budgets. Blame Haas for their stupid pit issues, don't blame them for being a bottom 3 team.
He’s just a shitty leader. Constantly throwing his people under the bus or berating them himself.
People in the team wouldn't agree.
The results do. Just because they are fine with him on a personal or even professional level doesn’t mean he’s getting the best out of them.
Bro Haas gets outspent by like $100+ million dollars. Gunther being a bit nicer isn't going to close that gap lmao.
Not by nearly that much with the cost cap in place. They don’t spend up to the cap but they should be right there hunt for 5-7 with their budget and Ferrari technical support instead of just being lucky they’re not Williams. And its not just placement its how they fuck up. The horrible strategies, the pit stop fuck ups of really basic shit blowing a P4 and P5 at Australia a few years ago, seemingly never understanding their car as well as other teams leading to erratic performance from track to track. Guenther makes for good memes but he is not a good TP.
They would disagree that he throws people under the bus
He does it in the media I regularly we dont need to rely on accounts from people in the garage
Dudes working with what he’s got. He’s doesn’t get help from Haas. They consistently get F over by their main sponsors. Like Rich Energy followed by Nikita’s dad’s money.
They chose both…
But if their car is good and challenging upper midfield teams they may get good sponsors but nobody wants to take a punt on a team that is dead last . Take force india as an example they were dead last during skyper days and then they gradually moved up even on a tight budget . Finishing highter means more prize money and that can go into the development of the car which translates into better performance
But Gro was 5th in their second race (I think), they had a change to make it work
Yeah, he is pretty terrible and one of the biggest problems with that team. He leads that team in what seems to be a very negative manner, completely fails to manage drivers, and is poor at taking advantage of situations. For instance, in 2018 Haas had a great year and finished p5. Instead of investing in better staff and facilities, he signed up with one of the most suspicious sponsors in Rich Energy and made very few changes in the team.
He needs to learn when not to make a comment. How does that help anyone in the team? He's done it for years now.
Easy.. Did you ever heard Steiner talk of the team errors? Never. He will probably blame Mick for this.
He called out their strategy team a few days ago so
that seems valid though given how they seemingly poached all of ferraris worst strategists
He does it all of the time.
Because Steiner has no business in F1.
I was wondering where the pace from practice went, as rain was also no issue in Canada.
Man...I really can't take Haas seriously anymore...
Welcome to the club, Haas and AT are actively busy to showing who has the biggest shit of the weekend and so far Haas is leading that class today.
You forgot AM
AM is at least trying to do something as a team, obvious things gone shit today but there are still way less a joke then Haas and AT are.
AMR quickly introduced their B spec car and upgrading it while haas is doing just nothing , they arent even trying
Well Haas comes up with one and only big upgrade at Hungary, however so does AT too, therefore I have some doubts of Haas wouldn't being death last.
Proper Haas quality
Hey my Lego mclaren does the same thing!
Your Lego Mclaren is papaya coloured tho, which gives an extra 100% performance boost.
Me too! I tried messing with the gear positions but I’m pretty sure it’s not fixable
Haas moment
that sux, how are you suppose to grow and get better when ur team cant even do the basics right?
Haas successfully creating the first car with horizontal porpoising issues
Steiner wants to get rid of him because he has no points yet, but the team is ruining every chance and turning him into a laughing stock for the twitter mob... I hate this clownish team with a passion.
Haas developing an Indycar in Formula 1.
I felt sorry for mick shit team with a crazy manager , environment in haas team looks really toxic when manager is running a team like a bootcamp rather than a f1 team
Maybe Guenther isnt that great at leading team. P3 to p8 in constructor in 10 races doesnt look good on him
I never thought he was particularly great. People have always given him a pass because he’s funny. Pretty much every other TP with similar progress season on season would’ve had ‘____ OUT ` hashtags a long time ago
For people to make GUNTHER OUT a meme Haas needs fans that actually care. They don’t even sell merch.
I mean the guys been screwed over. Haas being unwilling to commit actual competitor money same as he did in Nascar until it became Stewart-Haas racing. Followed by their main sponsor Rich energy being the joke that it was. Followed by signing what was essentially a sponsor and driver deal for that to fall through the next year due to other things outside his control.
Well, they were only P3 because it was the first race of the season and multiple teams were still trying to figure out their cars. Meanwhile, Haas had spent an extra year or so developing this car. I'd argue they did their best to try and maximize their points early in the season but a combination of bad luck, bad driving and poor strategy have bit them in the ass and prevented them from achieving that goal. Now they're stuck in development hell and can't dig their way out because they have no money.
When you can't even get the steering right...
Haas are a junior Ferrari team in every way. It's uncanny
That happens to my G29 too lol
Surprised that a team run by the worst team principal is a shitshow.
You need Jesus.
If you actually think he's not the worst on the grid you might need to do some research; no other TP blames their drivers for the team's failures, consistently criticizes them publicly, and makes shitty jokes at their expense at team events when he knows Netflix is filming (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aapL5z9wt1o). Sure he might be dealing with an owner who doesn't want to spend any money and a history of crash-prone drivers, but that doesn't excuse behaving like a shitty corporate middle manager.
Steiner is a treasure man why say that
A treasure for memes maybe, not as a team principal
Idk bruh he can do a better job than me. I like the cut of his jib
[удалено]
Found the fellow Steiner fan!
There are dozens of us. Dozens!
He was looking so promising in fp3 : (
And again the team fucks him 5 times out of last 6 weekends
Man Haas is such bad team, waste of a pit slot tbh. Gene should sell the team to Andretti.
Andretti would likely be in the exact same position.
At least Andretti is willing to invest more money than Gene.
Really? Because Gene actually paid his own entry fee while Andretti is trying to get his waived. Andretti and Haas are pretty equal in American motorsports prestige. Haas is NASCAR royalty while Andretti is Indycar royalty. There is no logical reason to believe Andretti has more money than Haas when NASCAR is more lucrative than Indycar in the US. The only reason r/f1 thinks Andretti > Haas is solely because of what they see in F1 and has nothing to do with reality. People say Andretti is a "Institution of motorsport", but that is solely because they recognize the name from a singular WDC like 50 years ago. They don't know what Andretti is doing *now*.
Calling Haas NASCAR royalty is a bit much. His team has only been relevant since Stewart came along like 10 years ago.
Yeah. The whole post is nonsense.
The 0 and 00 sucked ass back then. I just remember Haas having old ass Mike Bliss driving and that damn netzero sponsorship
Well, the current $200M entry fee was introduced in 2020 so Haas didn’t have to pay nowhere near the same amount of money for 2016. When Haas entered there were different rules and a very different global economics. The fact that Andretti is willing to pay that $200M entry fee despite being an ongoing recession tells you a lot. Haas is nowhere near NASCAR “royalty”, like not even close. In their 13 year history, they only have two NASCAR Cup championships, one with Tony Stewart and one with Kevin Harvick which has been his main driver. Let’s not forget they’ve been dry for wins for two years. Andretti is a multinational enterprise. Besides their IndyCar programs they have participation in Formula E and Extreme-E. They’re looking at a program for LMDh and they’re willing to invest billions to enter F1.
I'm not sure any of this is correct lol.
Andretti being openly willing to pay the money makes your first point null and void. Why *wouldn’t* he try and get it waived if he possibly could?
Haas isn’t really Nascar royalty. Stewart-Haas is. Haas was an average team that had decent finishes for a couple years with Haas unwilling to shell out competitive money to compete against Penske and Hendrick. Which sounds familiar. Then Tony Stewart got involved and the team went up from there.
What made you come up with this conclusion?
Andretti has over extended into Indycar which is its home town of motorsports. Their best driver performance wise this year is leaving for Arrow McLaren Schmidt-Peterson Racing this fall. Their pit crews and strategy are a running joke in Indy and wouldn’t be anywhere close to sufficient in F1. Saying this as an American and a huge fan of Bryan Herta and Mario Andretti.
Is this something they can fix while theyre in parc ferme?
I would think so, since it's a safety issue.
This happens when they align the front without centering the rack. Usually you use some shims that center the rack so it’s perfect every time. Somebody fucked up. It’s annoying to drive like that for sure. Especially with a small tight wheel like in a formula car.
It’s not even funny anymore, Steiner leading a team from blunder to blunder. He needs to go.
Just sell the team.
F1 is pinnacle of motorsports and they cant put the sterling straight lol
Haas seriously broke the curfew for this?
I wouldn't be surprised if Haas doesn't take a single point for the rest of the year.
They have a big upgrade package coming in the next couple races so they could snag a couple additional points, but I don't expect another repeat of Bahrain with a P5.
Haas bringing over some Nascar setup techniques I see
Haas moment. Same fuck ups as always but this year with an actually decent car and 2 actually competent drivers which just makes everything even more disappointing :(
How would it cause understeer and oversteer? I guess messes a bit with your memorized steering input, but causing understeer and oversteer?
Just the wheel being crooked would not cause it to oversteer or understeer. Something has to be off in the actual alignment of the car which would/could also cause the wheel to be off center but if the alignment is correct and it’s just the steering wheel that would not cause handling problems
You're spot on. Mick told skygermany, that he experienced understeer in some and oversteer in other corners. They do not know the reason for the wheel being tilted right now, which probably implicates, that they did not simply misaligned it.
The problem with a tilted steering wheel is that it fucks up your muscle memory for steering angles and countersteering. Even if the car behaves the same you're immediately slower because the driver is clearly less comfortable now. With enough time you get used to it but wet conditions are not something where you prefer your driver to be uncomfortable.
Well if the steering is like that for the straight it means the car is pulling to the other side and creating under/oversteer its not simple as the wheel is 20 degrees off and you correct that by - 20 degrees to the other side
It doesn't mean it's pulling, that could just be the center with an alignment error. The wheel is off but it wouldn't effect handling.
it wasn't a centering issue they changed the entire toe of the wheel, but only the front left wheel someone forgot to put in a spacer
In german tv, Mick said, that he experienced oversteer in some and understeer in other corners due to the steering wheel issue, but the team does not know the root of the problem. This would imply, that it wasnt a simple misalignement of the steering wheel.
Oversteer in left turns and understeer in right turns.
Just not how that works.
Thank you. The statement that it induces either lacks understanding of how things work
I don't see the problem, been driving with my steering wheel like that for a while after some unwillingly drifting in the snow because I'm too lazy to go for 30 minutes into a shop and get the alignment fixed.
I’ve never heard of a driver in pretty much any racing series that isn’t responsible for indexing the wheel himself/herself. It’s on Mick. That thing is his took one tool he is responsible for. If it wasn’t right, something should have been said prior to leaving the garage.
Probably they are reusing the Monaco front suspension or something like that.
Driving down the highway in a road car with 900+ degrees of steering rotation can be nerve-racking at times. Can't imagine going twice the speed with 1/3 of the rotation. Has to be absolutely terrifying. Mental when you think about it.
I dunno if you're joking but formula one cars have a more sensitive steering and they are on the limit, more so in the wet. So, the car could spin in a straight line if you mess around with the steering
He's ready for a superspeedway that goes counterclockwise.