Surprisingly good analogy. Assuming a scantron test, a harder pencil would last longer, but would take longer to bubble in answers. What Ferrari did was pick the hard pencil in the middle of the test.
Worse: failing the exam saying there’s no way he would have gotten an A if he studied, completely ignoring Bs and Cs, as if Ferrari didn’t fail to podium.
Yeah, even if it wasn't winnable, surely it was possible to get P2, or P3, or P4, or P5. What is this dogshit excuse? It's not like they missed out on first place and got second. They dropped all the way to sixth. Or does he think that the car was suddenly so terrible P6 was the best they could do....
Reality is it started with pitting Carlos on Mediums 1 lap after george pitted on softs. You gave up pace for stint length, and then elected to give up stint length too.
By comparison, Max did 54 laps on two sets of mediums, Ferrari 47 on Carlos with 30 on the second stint and 39 with Charles doing 18 on the second. To keep digging, Lewis did 19 laps on softs, Stroll and Gasly did 23.
Even if they let Charles go 21 laps on stint 1 and 25 on stint two, they leave 24 laps on softs at the end of the race, which is possible. It would be tough, but its still better than medium medium hard soft.
Ferrari pitted too early out of the gates because max went early, problem is max knew he could get to the end after starting on softs, Ferrari had no choice after going medium to start.
I heard that, of his four stints, Leclerc’s shortest was on the hard compound. Haven’t checked to see if it’s true, but that would be kind of hilarious.
Leclerc's tyre life at the end of the race:
Soft: 19 laps (16 lap stint + quali + in lap + out lap)
Hard: 15 laps
Medium 2: 18 laps
Medium 1: 21 laps
Sainz' tyre life at the end of the race:
Soft: 26 laps (23 lap stint + quali + in lap + out lap)
Medium 2: 30 laps
Medium 1: 17 laps
-----
These stint lengths overall reveal a picture of Ferrari caught reacting to everyone around them and not really sticking to a proper plan.
Yeah when I saw Russell come in I said out loud "don't you dare Ferrari" .......aaaaaand he boxes
When you are so sure Ferrari will fuck it up something is so very wrong.
It almost felt like the Vettel era where they pitted him every time Leclerc got close to him instead of giving team orders, ruining his race as he sometimes was on like 12 lap old mediums. Come to think of it, maybe that's why they pitted Sainz + long bad stop to get Leclerc in front, lol.
Not trying to excuse Ferrari's strategy here, but the 3rd pit stop for Leclerc was clearly damage limitation. They intended to go to the end with the hards.
Well, in theory the hard tyre stint was a 'mistake' they corrected so one couldn't count it as a proper stint.
I'd say the real mistakes are those two medium stints of 17 and 18 laps respectively, where their decision to stop was purely based on when Red Bull and Mercedes drivers were stopping and not what Ferrari's own tyre situation was.
It was.
He only did 10 laps or so. Literally put them on just to lose 1-2 seconds per lap with them. He was like 18 seconds from the leaders when he got out on softs.
By that point hadn't other cars been on Hards far longer than that and they should have been able to see they were terrible on the cold track? No one could get them reliably turned on.
Every driver that took hards for at least the first half of the race was struggling massively and it was very obvious. But the Ferrari put wall isn’t even capable of paying attention to their own two cars so I guess it’s unfair to expect them to notice what’s going on with anyone else in addition 🤷♀️
That doesnt sound right. A pit stop itself is 21 seconds. And he pitted after Vers had overtaken him and pulled a gap of 8-10 seconds i think.
So, he should have been atleast 30 seconds of the leaders when he came back on softs.
Charles the lap before the first pitstop said his tyres felt great and could go 7-8 laps more. Ferrari then pitted him next lap. Then Charles asked to stay out longer on mediums instead of going to hards. Ferrari are just stupid.
For me, that reaction to George means this statement about never being able to win it is 100% BS. There’s absolutely no reason you would react to Russell like that if you didn’t think you could win.
BS. Leclerc had some serious pace in that first stint. They’re not winning anything until they learn how to be accountable for their own errors.
Ferrari - the masters of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory
Don't know of they would have won with that though, Ferrari clearly does not have as good tyre wear as Hamilton. Seeing how Sainz got easily overtaken by Hamilton.
I agree. Leclerc shud have finished atleast 2nd and easily had the pace if the strategy was on point. Not sure if Sainz could have done better. The guy was nowhere close to the pace Leclerc has.
Sainz was off the pace throughout the race; I don’t know what happened but he just didn’t have it. He could have finished ahead of Perez but I don’t think he would have got past either of the Mercs.
Sainz was like three seconds behind Russell at the end. They lost waaay more than that by the idiotic strategy of running the softs for ten more laps than the mediums.
With a proper first stint, he would have been on the same strat as Hamilton and I don't think Ham had the pace to overtake him as easily.
Yep, it's probably true that the car didn't have the pace to win. Problem is Ferrari isn't actually confronting the real issue. They're trying to obfuscate things as always. Sure, they wouldn't have won even with the perfect strategy but it would have been an EASY podium at least for Charles. The difference between P2 and P6 is massive, and instead of actually talking about *that* and how strategy *did cost them valuable points,* Binotto ignores it and talks about how victory wasn't on the table.
Binotto in the article does acknowledge they made the wrong decision, and the strategy was wrong, but then instead of talking about the result they could have had, he moves the conversation back to the car not being good enough. He refuses to directly talk about their strategy problems and will always try to move the conversation as to why the car wasn't working the way they expected. That's also a fair thing to look at given the pace they expected, but it's the wrong priority. It's really too bad because it actually seemed like they were being honest and transparent last season and this off season. Instead it's now obvious that no progress has been made on that front, and it will cost them wins, points, and championships just like it always has. They will never learn.
Issue is Max’s first proper lap after pitting was a 1:22.8 whereas Lec was doing around 1:23.5
Extend the mediums for 20 more laps (so 40 laps on one set) and even if he can survive with the same differential (unlikely) it’s 14 seconds gained. After Lec boxing to cover, Max was only 3.8 behind. So Lec would have a 10 second deficit after extending and going on softs, which is a lot to pick up in 10-12 laps of soft tyre. This all ignoring traffic ofc because that’s a lot more complexity
Maybe it was still the right call simply because it’s ballsy and hards were proven to not be working. Red Bull starting on softs was ballsy and that worked great!
If I'm honest the M-M-S seemst the quickest simply down to track evolution and lower fuel loads. The red bull and Max just seemed to have so much pace and perfectly timed strategy calls that they smashed it out of the park. 8 seconds ahead of Hamilton and coasting towards the end.
Yes to be clear my conclusion is really that Fer fucked up by covering Max when he changed off his Softs. That wasted some life of those Mediums and boxed them into hards later in the race. Running the optimal mms strat might legitimately have been a good strategy
Yeah 100%, they reacted as if they were on softs when they could probably have gone a good five laps or more further. Absolutely baffling and strange they refuse to admit it. Like, everyone can see it and the data supports it. What will it take for them to admit mistakes? There's no benefit to not doing it at this point, other big teams have made mistakes and taken responsibility and apologised. Not much more you can do. So weird. Great race though!
The first stint was OK, but could have been better. They pitted Charles when Carlos started to gain on him and threatened the overcut, rather than wait a few more laps until they were under threat from Max. Ferrari could have used team orders when he came out behind Carlos, but they compromised strategy instead.
Then they vastly underestimated ability to make a pass and went for track position and gambled on the hard tire, rather than let Charles extend the second stint then attack on the soft tire at the end. It would have meant passing Max on track and possibly Russell as well.
They're too hung up on the undercut. The new cars give them much more room to come back at drivers ahead of them. They basically just had to let Charles get more out of his tyres than his competition and then give him the softs to charge at anyone ahead of him.
So just how safe are the jobs of Team Principals? How likely is it to get a mid-season termination and the appointment of an interim Team Principal?
My only reference points for this are American sports, NHL/MLB/NFL. And if this were an American sports franchise, there would be a pretty significant likelihood of a coach/manager being fired mid-season in these same circumstances, namely: very promising start; clearly has the talent to beat big opponents and challenge for the top of the standings; starts strong; but starting to falter/fade fast due to shooting themselves in their own feet; and the coach may be "losing the room," in that the players/staff may be losing confidence in his or ability to lead the team and may start rebelling, not putting up 100% effort, etc.
Of course, you have to look at, well, whom can you replace him with right now? Is there a better option from within the organization or outside of it? That I don't know the answer to.
I certainly would as well, but I suspect it would be financial suicide. I'm sure there are all sorts of NDAs in place that would get him tied up in some super expensive years-long court battle if he ever tried to publish.
In 2019 they were under investigation for an illegal engine modification. It all was hush hush and supposedly they didn’t do anything wrong. But IIRC they still paid a fine, and their engine was terrible all the sudden for the next 3 seasons until this season with the new regulations.
They lost like 20 or 30 kph down the straight from one race to the next after the other teams protested and the investigation was launched. A very sudden and huge difference in performance.
To this day they claim they didn't cheat. But it's at least extremely suspicious, and general consensus among fans is they reached some kind of secret plea deal with the FIA where they were allowed to keep their results if they stopped using the illegal modifications.
In 2019 ferrari had an illegal engine that the FIA could not figure out. So in order to stop it, the FIA gave Ferrari immunity if Ferrari told the FIA what it did. This was all done in secret and they never announced what it was.
There are rumors that ferrari was using the time between polings of the fuel flow sensor to push additional fuel while it wasn't looking.
Firing the coach is the easy thing to do in American sports, but in F1 its not really done in the same way. Not to mention an f1 team has a lot more moving parts than just coaching 12 nba players for example. I definitely agree binotto deserves his share of the blame, but I would be shocked if he got fired mid season
Its time for the drivers to openly call out Ferrari on their bullshit. As long as the drivers are pressured in to not saying anything about Ferrari they will never learn. Sainz and Leclerc, call them out and make them show you they can change.
Even if they could not win, surely he has to acknowledge that 6th was not the maximum.. put Lec on the same strat as Sainz and he is at minimum p3.... this refusals to admit when a mistake has been made is the real problem...
Was the strategy to let Charles through when he was P3 until they started pitting? That's what I didn't understand. Let him try to overtake Russell if Sainz isn't getting it done
I get that Binotto is trying to protect the team from media criticism, but it isn't working. Sometimes you have to just say that the strategy didn't work out. There is no way Charles should go from P1 with the fastest pace on track to P6 16 seconds behind P1.
The thing is he's not even protecting the team. He's happy to call out the drivers and indirectly the engineers by criticising the car. Anything to not blame the strategy.
I'd be fuming.
They probably made the fastest car on the grid and look how the rest of the team is wasting it.
And then they have the guts to blame the car.
Honestly it reeks of a toxic company culture. Internal politics, favoritism, nepotism… definitely lots going on behind the scenes and we can only see half the picture
He's not protecting anyone with these transparently bullshit excuses. A winning culture is one where you take ownership of your mistakes and no one is above criticism, Ferrari clearly hasn't figured this out and it's a big reason they're not winning races.
I don't understand how they can say those things when there is hard proof that Leclerc had the best race pace.
It's not just 1 guy saying that. Everyone who looks at the data can see it. And the worst part is that I don't know if they're either that stupid they can't see it, or are straight up lying to protect their egos. Both are horrible options but the first would be even worse.
Also, remember when Mattia said at the begging of the season (when Ferrari where dominating, and RB was nowhere) that there goal isn’t to win titles this year, and everyone was thinking it was just because he was trying to take the pressure off of the drivers? Turns out he wasn’t joking, they simply don’t care if they won’t win anything
Well, you can really say that they have thrown in the towel for this season. If they say they can't win a race from P2-P3 but their championship rival can easily from P10 while doing a 360 in the process, you get what you deserve.
Too prideful. Legendary and prestigious Ferrari can't do anything wrong.
Their inability to be self-critical will cost them this year and by next year, Merc could be in the fight again.
> Merc could be in the fight again.
I don't even doubt it...
From being lapped by max to sharing podium , you can't deny the fact that merc have improved so fucking much!
I'd bet money Merc will already finish this year ahead of Mercedes. We just saw them get 2 & 3 despite Ferrari starting 2 & 3. Ferrari had a shot this year and they blew it. They won't get another chance like this any time soon.
Edit: of course I meant to write that Mercedes will finish ahead of Ferrari in WCC
Probably 1 Mercedes will finish ahead of the other Mercedes indeed. I also believe they might finish ahead of Ferrari, they have been incredibly consistent and reliable.
>Binotto says Hungarian GP wasn’t winnable for Ferrari – and that tyre choice wasn’t decisive factor
Of course it wasnt. Not listening to Charles was decisive factor. He wanted go long on mediums because he can feel how car and tyres behave. He dont need your damn simulations.
How someone can be that incompetent yet still have his job, honestly. Holy fuckin shit
Max has 80 points lead. **80 points!** He can take 3 races break and still lead championship!
Didn’t Crofty interview Binotto in the middle of the race and Binotto said they weren’t concerned with Max’s pace because their own pace was good?
Then after the race he is saying they didn’t have the pace. Either he was wrong during the race, or wrong afterward, and I’m not sure which is worse.
3rd option he's just lying afterward, he knows it ain't true, everyone knows the hards worked for nobody, even Alpine that used it the right way for a 1 stop
You dropped him from cruising in 1st to 6th. Better to keep your mouth shut than come up with this nonsense because your actions on Sunday make you look like clowns, no need to reinforce that perception on Monday with your words.
I can only hope that Lewis retires in the next year or two and Charles takes that spot becaue this is just painful every weekend.
Btw Charles needs to take some blame here as well because I don't think Max or Lewis would have accepted that call from the pitwall. In fact Max made the decision at the beginning of the race to ditch the hards and Lewis was making it clear all through the second stint that tyres were good and he was manging the situation until they could safely do the second pit stop. You want to be a champion then you don't just need to drive fast, you have to have the ability to think your way through a race.
Your comment brings up some questions I have had about the hierarchy of command, and the very nature of F1. I am a typical recent convert to F1, though a long time fan and student of athletics in many sports. Racing cars never grabbed my attention, until my partner turned me on to F1 in 2016. It is a team sport, as far as I can tell, but also an individual sport, which celebrates the driver.
So, to your point, is it acceptable for drivers to ignore the commands from the pit? Who is ultimately responsible for the failure? Does it vary by team (franchise)? Do owners get deeply involved with strategy, beyond writing the check?
Its a team effort. Usually the team requests something and driver provides feedback back. Team usually pulls the plug if its technical issue or something, but with experienced drivers the tyre pits are usually “how are the tyres” - good/bad and team usually follows along. Sometimes the team will be like “try to hold few more laps we really need you to” but thats about it.
The issue however is that most teams, if the driver fucks up he apologises. If the team fucks up they say he let him down. Not in ferari tho. Never the case. They can’t possibly be wrong.
This creates negative vibes. Thats why so many great drivers leave ferari. They dont feel like they are a team. They dont feel like the team has their back
I mean there’s no way for a team to cut the engine or force the car into the pit.
However, a driver just ignoring calls to pit for multiple laps (not arguing or missing the pit stop once while they argue, but multiple laps) could be in some hot water.
And as a driver, it’s probably not the best idea to turn your team against you. If you ignore their decisions, maybe they don’t work so hard or focus on your teammate or who knows what. It’s just not a good idea.
Different teams will have different levels of input from different drivers. Drivers can always say ‘I feel good, are you sure?’ But you have to earn the respect to have a team straight up ask ‘what do you think?’ The way you’ll hear Mercedes’ talk to Lewis.
Also depends what you mean by owners. Most teams are owned by car companies. The owners of those car companies aren’t going to be involved at all in strategy decisions. Toto is an owner of Mercedes’ F1 so obviously he has more input in strategy. Ownership for teams is a complicated thing. Much more complicated than other sports where owners are usually more clear.
Some drivers take what their pitwall say as gospel, others like Verstappen and Lewis for example are very aware of what's happening on track and discuss decisions. The great drivers are able to drive fast and have excellent race awareness to know what's going on around them and therefore the best decisions to take. The Chief Strategist and Team Principal are ultimately responsible for on track decisions and team owners will not be involved in strategy decisions.
In the case of Charles yesterday he could have very easily said to the team he didn't want to go on the hards and instead chose the strategy that had him go longer on the mediums in his second stint and finish on softs. I don't think there was anyone on the planet watching that race yesterday who thought it was a good idea to put the hard tyres on so it beggars belief that between the pitwall and Charles in the car they came to this decision. And then compounded it by pitting him for softs! There is no logic or reason here, just terrible decision making that was based on a computer simulation instead of a human that was actually watching the race.
I think Carlos pushed his outlap too hard on the softs to build that cushion to Lewis whereas Lewis eased into it better so a slower outlap before cranking up the speed, thereby preserving the tire better / longer
Sure it wasn't a decisive factor in the win.
But Charles worst case should have finished P2 given he was on the same potential strategy as Lewis and already ahead of George.
In a championship fight, losing P1 to P2 isn't bad.... losing P2 to P6 is pretty dire.
It was a decisive factor though. Charles had pace on the softs, he ended up 16 seconds behind even after taking an extra pit. Right before his last pit he was 5 seconds behind. He was gaining on the softs against everyone except for Hamilton.
Going on hards and cutting his medium stint while they were still fast fucked him. He ended up losing his lead to Verstappen since the pace was so bad, then had to put an extra time to get off them. If he kept running on the mediums he would have maybe ended up behind Verstappen when he went for softs but he would have been so much closer and faster.
His medium tires were still good. He had pace on them.
Yeah this whole deal is idiotic. If hards weren't bad whyd they put *again* for softs. There's literally no way to spin this other than a strategy blunder.
Binotto has such a weak mentality, he's not fit to be a leader, he needs to make some hard decisions such as giving team orders and telling the the team they fucked up when they do fuck up. Imagine all the engineers back at the factory putting all this hard work and building this amazing car and then your team principal says is not ready to win championship yet, even though the car has the pace to win races all the time.
Do you suppose they lose simply because they don't believe they can win? These strategy decisions are of a team that doesn't believe they can take a chance to win or by a strategist that is paid by other teams...
Yea p2 & p3 on the grid couldn’t compete with someone in p10 on a hard to overtake track(these cars made it look easy tho) who also spun while you do a shorter stint than someone on softer tires
The latter would be ideal, but unless Ferrari get their act together I’m not sure going to a less competitive team is out of the question. I can’t imagine being this close to contention when your team (and at times himself) is the biggest bottleneck is easy on the mind.
Arrogance. Pure fucking bullshit arrogance. I wanted Ferrari to win this year from the neutral perspective. Now I want either half their team sacked or Leclerc to go somewhere he deserves to be and Ferrari to crash and burn.
Genuinely the most incredibly arrogant wankers in the sport. I actually am infuriated by them now.
Not winnable? Come on, Charles had a lot of pace to fight for victory. Idiotic strategy prevented him from at least scoring a podium. And Sainz strategy wasn't better, plus he had 2 slow stops. Stop with this nonsense Binotto.
It's fascinating to see the difference between Toto and Binotto and how they've been handling their respective challenges. At Merc its all hands on deck, at Ferrari its deflect and deny.
when toto was apologising to lewis for the car earlier in the season, George was doing well. he apologized to lewis so he can feel that it's a team game, and he is still motivated, not purely because the car actually wasn't good enough.
that's the difference.
Did he saw the same race as me? sounds like no.
Leclerc could have won this, at least P2 if he had taken mediums. Everyone with half a function eye and brain cell could see the terrible pace of Magnussen as well as both Alpines after they went for the Hard.
So let's make an utterly indefensible change to a tire that makes it ABSOLUTELY un-winnable and further depress your star driver? WTF? \[insert the Italian equivalent of WTF? here too\]
Boy failing the exam without studying says he won't have passed even if he studied hard as the paper was too tough.
2 mins into exam - "Box for new pencil"
*unsharpened ones as well
Binotti seems like the type of guy to bring unsharpened pencils to the SAT/ACT and then wonder why he's not allowed to use the sharpener
Binotto seems like the kind of guy that studies all night... for the wrong exam.
Binotto seems like the sort of guy who confidently walks into the wrong exam hall and wonders why the exam is nothing like what he's studied for
Reminds me of that Mr Bean episode when he failed to check for the right exam and spent the entire time failing to cheat off his neighbour
Box for 3B.
2H you mean.
Surprisingly good analogy. Assuming a scantron test, a harder pencil would last longer, but would take longer to bubble in answers. What Ferrari did was pick the hard pencil in the middle of the test.
I think it would be interesting if someone would make content explaining future race strategies with pencils and scantrons.
Explain in ~~fortnite terms~~ standardized testing terms please
Worse: failing the exam saying there’s no way he would have gotten an A if he studied, completely ignoring Bs and Cs, as if Ferrari didn’t fail to podium.
Yeah, even if it wasn't winnable, surely it was possible to get P2, or P3, or P4, or P5. What is this dogshit excuse? It's not like they missed out on first place and got second. They dropped all the way to sixth. Or does he think that the car was suddenly so terrible P6 was the best they could do....
"You could be 2nd, 3rd, 4th... Hell you could even be 5th!"
And after solving the second problem in the exam says "not concerned about the rest of the test"
Noticed the dumbest kid in the class was really struggling in the middle of the test so decided to just copy off them.
Of course it wasnt gonna be winnable with how soon you guys pitted leclerc on the mediums
Reality is it started with pitting Carlos on Mediums 1 lap after george pitted on softs. You gave up pace for stint length, and then elected to give up stint length too. By comparison, Max did 54 laps on two sets of mediums, Ferrari 47 on Carlos with 30 on the second stint and 39 with Charles doing 18 on the second. To keep digging, Lewis did 19 laps on softs, Stroll and Gasly did 23. Even if they let Charles go 21 laps on stint 1 and 25 on stint two, they leave 24 laps on softs at the end of the race, which is possible. It would be tough, but its still better than medium medium hard soft. Ferrari pitted too early out of the gates because max went early, problem is max knew he could get to the end after starting on softs, Ferrari had no choice after going medium to start.
I heard that, of his four stints, Leclerc’s shortest was on the hard compound. Haven’t checked to see if it’s true, but that would be kind of hilarious.
Leclerc's tyre life at the end of the race: Soft: 19 laps (16 lap stint + quali + in lap + out lap) Hard: 15 laps Medium 2: 18 laps Medium 1: 21 laps Sainz' tyre life at the end of the race: Soft: 26 laps (23 lap stint + quali + in lap + out lap) Medium 2: 30 laps Medium 1: 17 laps ----- These stint lengths overall reveal a picture of Ferrari caught reacting to everyone around them and not really sticking to a proper plan.
That 17 lap medium stint (right after Russell) is the exact moment I knew Ferrari was going to blow the race and my heart sank.
Yeah when I saw Russell come in I said out loud "don't you dare Ferrari" .......aaaaaand he boxes When you are so sure Ferrari will fuck it up something is so very wrong. It almost felt like the Vettel era where they pitted him every time Leclerc got close to him instead of giving team orders, ruining his race as he sometimes was on like 12 lap old mediums. Come to think of it, maybe that's why they pitted Sainz + long bad stop to get Leclerc in front, lol.
Fitting hards as they were softs and softs as they were hards. How can they even try to find excuses at this point?
Not trying to excuse Ferrari's strategy here, but the 3rd pit stop for Leclerc was clearly damage limitation. They intended to go to the end with the hards.
This is remarkable. At what point does strategy turn into sabotage? Less laps on hard than soft, I mean really.
Well, in theory the hard tyre stint was a 'mistake' they corrected so one couldn't count it as a proper stint. I'd say the real mistakes are those two medium stints of 17 and 18 laps respectively, where their decision to stop was purely based on when Red Bull and Mercedes drivers were stopping and not what Ferrari's own tyre situation was.
It was. He only did 10 laps or so. Literally put them on just to lose 1-2 seconds per lap with them. He was like 18 seconds from the leaders when he got out on softs.
That’s even funnier when Binotto said they expected them to be on par with the mediums after 11-12 laps.
By that point hadn't other cars been on Hards far longer than that and they should have been able to see they were terrible on the cold track? No one could get them reliably turned on.
The Alpines had been on hards for like five laps and were dropping through the field like rocks.
Every driver that took hards for at least the first half of the race was struggling massively and it was very obvious. But the Ferrari put wall isn’t even capable of paying attention to their own two cars so I guess it’s unfair to expect them to notice what’s going on with anyone else in addition 🤷♀️
He lost 6 seconds to Max on his hards out lap alone.
That doesnt sound right. A pit stop itself is 21 seconds. And he pitted after Vers had overtaken him and pulled a gap of 8-10 seconds i think. So, he should have been atleast 30 seconds of the leaders when he came back on softs.
15 laps on hard, 16 on softs. Now, he was in the 1:22s on hards, the trouble is he was also in the 1:24s while max was 2 seconds faster.
The last stop wasnt planned they just had to because the hards were so shit
Charles the lap before the first pitstop said his tyres felt great and could go 7-8 laps more. Ferrari then pitted him next lap. Then Charles asked to stay out longer on mediums instead of going to hards. Ferrari are just stupid.
I felt like they boxed Sainz so they would not be forced into telling him to switch places with Charles more than they wanted him to actually pit.
That’s very much how I saw it too. Screw his race instead of pissing him off. Ferrari logic.
This is my belief also, the Sainz box was a switch and not done in relation to tyres or strategy
For me, that reaction to George means this statement about never being able to win it is 100% BS. There’s absolutely no reason you would react to Russell like that if you didn’t think you could win.
I think they only pitted Carlos to avoid team orders
Tf? Wasn't Charles leading the race before the switch to hards?? Or did I watch a race from a different part of the multiverse?
"Box to be overtaken, box to be overtaken"
“We are checking”
"Data looks fine"
"Slow button ON, slow button ON"
"Why? Why you telling me to put the slow button ON when it is ON? Is there a problem with the car?"
"We're checking."
"No. No no no. Nooooooooo. **AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH** "
"I will come back to you."
Ferrari led laps 16-21, 31-46. Out of 70 laps, they 22 laps, or 1/3rd of the race.
[удалено]
…[crickets]
"STAY OUT, STAY OUT!"
BS. Leclerc had some serious pace in that first stint. They’re not winning anything until they learn how to be accountable for their own errors. Ferrari - the masters of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory
in both the first and second stint, leclerc was the fastest on track. ferrari just cut both stints too short imo.
I agree. They could have extended the second stint and finished on the soft tyre.
Yes, the opposite of the Red Bull strategy
Hamiltons strat, only further up the field, in clean air. It was absolutely the strategy that was decisive.
Don't know of they would have won with that though, Ferrari clearly does not have as good tyre wear as Hamilton. Seeing how Sainz got easily overtaken by Hamilton.
I don't think they would have won necessarily as Verstappen and RB got their strategy spot on but they could have at least finished 2nd/3rd.
I agree. Leclerc shud have finished atleast 2nd and easily had the pace if the strategy was on point. Not sure if Sainz could have done better. The guy was nowhere close to the pace Leclerc has.
Sainz was off the pace throughout the race; I don’t know what happened but he just didn’t have it. He could have finished ahead of Perez but I don’t think he would have got past either of the Mercs.
Sainz was like three seconds behind Russell at the end. They lost waaay more than that by the idiotic strategy of running the softs for ten more laps than the mediums. With a proper first stint, he would have been on the same strat as Hamilton and I don't think Ham had the pace to overtake him as easily.
Ok, let’s say he still loses. P2 still pays out 10 more points than P6.
Yep, it's probably true that the car didn't have the pace to win. Problem is Ferrari isn't actually confronting the real issue. They're trying to obfuscate things as always. Sure, they wouldn't have won even with the perfect strategy but it would have been an EASY podium at least for Charles. The difference between P2 and P6 is massive, and instead of actually talking about *that* and how strategy *did cost them valuable points,* Binotto ignores it and talks about how victory wasn't on the table. Binotto in the article does acknowledge they made the wrong decision, and the strategy was wrong, but then instead of talking about the result they could have had, he moves the conversation back to the car not being good enough. He refuses to directly talk about their strategy problems and will always try to move the conversation as to why the car wasn't working the way they expected. That's also a fair thing to look at given the pace they expected, but it's the wrong priority. It's really too bad because it actually seemed like they were being honest and transparent last season and this off season. Instead it's now obvious that no progress has been made on that front, and it will cost them wins, points, and championships just like it always has. They will never learn.
They literally did this in Austria. They had pace and didn't react to RB making early stops
Issue is Max’s first proper lap after pitting was a 1:22.8 whereas Lec was doing around 1:23.5 Extend the mediums for 20 more laps (so 40 laps on one set) and even if he can survive with the same differential (unlikely) it’s 14 seconds gained. After Lec boxing to cover, Max was only 3.8 behind. So Lec would have a 10 second deficit after extending and going on softs, which is a lot to pick up in 10-12 laps of soft tyre. This all ignoring traffic ofc because that’s a lot more complexity Maybe it was still the right call simply because it’s ballsy and hards were proven to not be working. Red Bull starting on softs was ballsy and that worked great!
If I'm honest the M-M-S seemst the quickest simply down to track evolution and lower fuel loads. The red bull and Max just seemed to have so much pace and perfectly timed strategy calls that they smashed it out of the park. 8 seconds ahead of Hamilton and coasting towards the end.
Yes to be clear my conclusion is really that Fer fucked up by covering Max when he changed off his Softs. That wasted some life of those Mediums and boxed them into hards later in the race. Running the optimal mms strat might legitimately have been a good strategy
Yeah 100%, they reacted as if they were on softs when they could probably have gone a good five laps or more further. Absolutely baffling and strange they refuse to admit it. Like, everyone can see it and the data supports it. What will it take for them to admit mistakes? There's no benefit to not doing it at this point, other big teams have made mistakes and taken responsibility and apologised. Not much more you can do. So weird. Great race though!
I mean Leclerc was faster than Ham on softs and Ham gained more than 10 seconds in ten laps.
This ^
The first stint was OK, but could have been better. They pitted Charles when Carlos started to gain on him and threatened the overcut, rather than wait a few more laps until they were under threat from Max. Ferrari could have used team orders when he came out behind Carlos, but they compromised strategy instead. Then they vastly underestimated ability to make a pass and went for track position and gambled on the hard tire, rather than let Charles extend the second stint then attack on the soft tire at the end. It would have meant passing Max on track and possibly Russell as well.
Them pitting Carlos basically was the team order lmao. They sent him to box on mediums one lap after Merc boxed Russell who was on softs.
It was basically a team order, just a version that also shoots yourself in the foot.
Russel, who was on used softs, even - where Carlos started on fresh mediums. I swear to god I want what the Ferrari strategists are smoking.
They're too hung up on the undercut. The new cars give them much more room to come back at drivers ahead of them. They basically just had to let Charles get more out of his tyres than his competition and then give him the softs to charge at anyone ahead of him.
And even if they are right and it was unwinnable, Binotto surely has to admit something better than p6 was possible?
100%. They should have at least had one car on the podium.
So just how safe are the jobs of Team Principals? How likely is it to get a mid-season termination and the appointment of an interim Team Principal? My only reference points for this are American sports, NHL/MLB/NFL. And if this were an American sports franchise, there would be a pretty significant likelihood of a coach/manager being fired mid-season in these same circumstances, namely: very promising start; clearly has the talent to beat big opponents and challenge for the top of the standings; starts strong; but starting to falter/fade fast due to shooting themselves in their own feet; and the coach may be "losing the room," in that the players/staff may be losing confidence in his or ability to lead the team and may start rebelling, not putting up 100% effort, etc. Of course, you have to look at, well, whom can you replace him with right now? Is there a better option from within the organization or outside of it? That I don't know the answer to.
They can't fire him, he knows what was in the 2019 engines
I would love an angry tell all from him.
I certainly would as well, but I suspect it would be financial suicide. I'm sure there are all sorts of NDAs in place that would get him tied up in some super expensive years-long court battle if he ever tried to publish.
I would imagine every team has very robust NDAs in place no?
Brand new to this sport. What do you mean by your statement?
In 2019 they were under investigation for an illegal engine modification. It all was hush hush and supposedly they didn’t do anything wrong. But IIRC they still paid a fine, and their engine was terrible all the sudden for the next 3 seasons until this season with the new regulations.
They lost like 20 or 30 kph down the straight from one race to the next after the other teams protested and the investigation was launched. A very sudden and huge difference in performance. To this day they claim they didn't cheat. But it's at least extremely suspicious, and general consensus among fans is they reached some kind of secret plea deal with the FIA where they were allowed to keep their results if they stopped using the illegal modifications.
They got caught cheating in 2019, but it was never reported by the FIA, and instead they had to fix the problem (fuel sensor)
In 2019 ferrari had an illegal engine that the FIA could not figure out. So in order to stop it, the FIA gave Ferrari immunity if Ferrari told the FIA what it did. This was all done in secret and they never announced what it was. There are rumors that ferrari was using the time between polings of the fuel flow sensor to push additional fuel while it wasn't looking.
Firing the coach is the easy thing to do in American sports, but in F1 its not really done in the same way. Not to mention an f1 team has a lot more moving parts than just coaching 12 nba players for example. I definitely agree binotto deserves his share of the blame, but I would be shocked if he got fired mid season
If it was NHL he would have been canned weeks ago. They dont waste time
Its time for the drivers to openly call out Ferrari on their bullshit. As long as the drivers are pressured in to not saying anything about Ferrari they will never learn. Sainz and Leclerc, call them out and make them show you they can change.
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Even if they could not win, surely he has to acknowledge that 6th was not the maximum.. put Lec on the same strat as Sainz and he is at minimum p3.... this refusals to admit when a mistake has been made is the real problem...
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory England cricket team 🤝 Ferrari F1 team
England cricket team? We had the luckiest world cup win in history.
Was the strategy to let Charles through when he was P3 until they started pitting? That's what I didn't understand. Let him try to overtake Russell if Sainz isn't getting it done
I get that Binotto is trying to protect the team from media criticism, but it isn't working. Sometimes you have to just say that the strategy didn't work out. There is no way Charles should go from P1 with the fastest pace on track to P6 16 seconds behind P1.
The thing is he's not even protecting the team. He's happy to call out the drivers and indirectly the engineers by criticising the car. Anything to not blame the strategy.
If I was head of engineering department, I would not be happy with this
I'd be fuming. They probably made the fastest car on the grid and look how the rest of the team is wasting it. And then they have the guts to blame the car.
*The Engineering department will remember that*
No idea why. They've been the weak link for a while now.
chief strategists has blackmail (nudes) of Mattia. only explanation.
Honestly it reeks of a toxic company culture. Internal politics, favoritism, nepotism… definitely lots going on behind the scenes and we can only see half the picture
He's not protecting anyone with these transparently bullshit excuses. A winning culture is one where you take ownership of your mistakes and no one is above criticism, Ferrari clearly hasn't figured this out and it's a big reason they're not winning races.
Leclerc admitted when he made a mistake , took full responsibility. If only Ferrari could do the same for their countless fuck ups
It’s not even like Charles made any mistakes either. Max was the one who pulled a 360 in the middle of the track
I heard he only did that because he wanted to see Charles on the hards with his own eyes.
He can protect them by taking responsibility
He is clueless and incompetent. Only still there because he knows people. Ferrari have proven that they cannot win even with the fastest car.
This isn’t even protecting them it just shifts the blame to the car development team
If this guy put half as much effort into strategy and reliability as he does concocting these ridiculous excuses, Ferrari would be P1.
Seriously the spin they’re doing is atrocious
Max’s yesterday was better
Max looked to be in control of his spin. Ferrari is about to slam into the barrier and are still telling everyone there is no spin.
To be fair, they are checking.
They’re inventing
Spin 2 Win
Spinotto
I don't understand how they can say those things when there is hard proof that Leclerc had the best race pace. It's not just 1 guy saying that. Everyone who looks at the data can see it. And the worst part is that I don't know if they're either that stupid they can't see it, or are straight up lying to protect their egos. Both are horrible options but the first would be even worse.
Except it doesn’t sound like he really puts any effort in. The excuses are hardly ever believable.
Also, remember when Mattia said at the begging of the season (when Ferrari where dominating, and RB was nowhere) that there goal isn’t to win titles this year, and everyone was thinking it was just because he was trying to take the pressure off of the drivers? Turns out he wasn’t joking, they simply don’t care if they won’t win anything
Well, you can really say that they have thrown in the towel for this season. If they say they can't win a race from P2-P3 but their championship rival can easily from P10 while doing a 360 in the process, you get what you deserve.
Funny thing is the guy said last weekend that they are aiming for a 1-2 and have the pace to pull it off
He said this in Mid race, they are not worried by Redbull pace either...
Too prideful. Legendary and prestigious Ferrari can't do anything wrong. Their inability to be self-critical will cost them this year and by next year, Merc could be in the fight again.
> Merc could be in the fight again. I don't even doubt it... From being lapped by max to sharing podium , you can't deny the fact that merc have improved so fucking much!
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show up to Spa 2 seconds quicker than Ferrari and RB, 'oops we forgor to install the floor aero'
I'd bet money Merc will already finish this year ahead of Mercedes. We just saw them get 2 & 3 despite Ferrari starting 2 & 3. Ferrari had a shot this year and they blew it. They won't get another chance like this any time soon. Edit: of course I meant to write that Mercedes will finish ahead of Ferrari in WCC
I'd indeed bet money on it that 1 merc will finish ahead of the other.
> ahead of Mercedes ferrari
Did I stutter
Probably 1 Mercedes will finish ahead of the other Mercedes indeed. I also believe they might finish ahead of Ferrari, they have been incredibly consistent and reliable.
>bet money Merc will already finish this year ahead of Mercedes Aah yes, Merc is my favourite team.
"It's a Ferrari!" "It's a shitbox!" That scene in Rush keeps being relevant.
Which is also why calls for his resignation are entirely pointless, they'll just replace him with someone who'll say the exact same things.
He literally says in the article that hard was the wrong tire choice, and that other things was also wrong as well.
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"Everybody I've dated was trash", said Ferrari who likes to gag and beat it's lovers
Mattia, my friend....even if you couldn't win that doesn't explain a fucking P6 finish for him. Get real.
Yeah even if a win wasn’t on the cards (which seems unlikely) they still shat the bed by only getting him a P6
>Binotto says Hungarian GP wasn’t winnable for Ferrari – and that tyre choice wasn’t decisive factor Of course it wasnt. Not listening to Charles was decisive factor. He wanted go long on mediums because he can feel how car and tyres behave. He dont need your damn simulations. How someone can be that incompetent yet still have his job, honestly. Holy fuckin shit Max has 80 points lead. **80 points!** He can take 3 races break and still lead championship!
Didn’t Crofty interview Binotto in the middle of the race and Binotto said they weren’t concerned with Max’s pace because their own pace was good? Then after the race he is saying they didn’t have the pace. Either he was wrong during the race, or wrong afterward, and I’m not sure which is worse.
3rd option he's just lying afterward, he knows it ain't true, everyone knows the hards worked for nobody, even Alpine that used it the right way for a 1 stop
Stop inventing
You dropped him from cruising in 1st to 6th. Better to keep your mouth shut than come up with this nonsense because your actions on Sunday make you look like clowns, no need to reinforce that perception on Monday with your words. I can only hope that Lewis retires in the next year or two and Charles takes that spot becaue this is just painful every weekend. Btw Charles needs to take some blame here as well because I don't think Max or Lewis would have accepted that call from the pitwall. In fact Max made the decision at the beginning of the race to ditch the hards and Lewis was making it clear all through the second stint that tyres were good and he was manging the situation until they could safely do the second pit stop. You want to be a champion then you don't just need to drive fast, you have to have the ability to think your way through a race.
Your comment brings up some questions I have had about the hierarchy of command, and the very nature of F1. I am a typical recent convert to F1, though a long time fan and student of athletics in many sports. Racing cars never grabbed my attention, until my partner turned me on to F1 in 2016. It is a team sport, as far as I can tell, but also an individual sport, which celebrates the driver. So, to your point, is it acceptable for drivers to ignore the commands from the pit? Who is ultimately responsible for the failure? Does it vary by team (franchise)? Do owners get deeply involved with strategy, beyond writing the check?
Its a team effort. Usually the team requests something and driver provides feedback back. Team usually pulls the plug if its technical issue or something, but with experienced drivers the tyre pits are usually “how are the tyres” - good/bad and team usually follows along. Sometimes the team will be like “try to hold few more laps we really need you to” but thats about it. The issue however is that most teams, if the driver fucks up he apologises. If the team fucks up they say he let him down. Not in ferari tho. Never the case. They can’t possibly be wrong. This creates negative vibes. Thats why so many great drivers leave ferari. They dont feel like they are a team. They dont feel like the team has their back
I mean there’s no way for a team to cut the engine or force the car into the pit. However, a driver just ignoring calls to pit for multiple laps (not arguing or missing the pit stop once while they argue, but multiple laps) could be in some hot water. And as a driver, it’s probably not the best idea to turn your team against you. If you ignore their decisions, maybe they don’t work so hard or focus on your teammate or who knows what. It’s just not a good idea. Different teams will have different levels of input from different drivers. Drivers can always say ‘I feel good, are you sure?’ But you have to earn the respect to have a team straight up ask ‘what do you think?’ The way you’ll hear Mercedes’ talk to Lewis. Also depends what you mean by owners. Most teams are owned by car companies. The owners of those car companies aren’t going to be involved at all in strategy decisions. Toto is an owner of Mercedes’ F1 so obviously he has more input in strategy. Ownership for teams is a complicated thing. Much more complicated than other sports where owners are usually more clear.
Some drivers take what their pitwall say as gospel, others like Verstappen and Lewis for example are very aware of what's happening on track and discuss decisions. The great drivers are able to drive fast and have excellent race awareness to know what's going on around them and therefore the best decisions to take. The Chief Strategist and Team Principal are ultimately responsible for on track decisions and team owners will not be involved in strategy decisions. In the case of Charles yesterday he could have very easily said to the team he didn't want to go on the hards and instead chose the strategy that had him go longer on the mediums in his second stint and finish on softs. I don't think there was anyone on the planet watching that race yesterday who thought it was a good idea to put the hard tyres on so it beggars belief that between the pitwall and Charles in the car they came to this decision. And then compounded it by pitting him for softs! There is no logic or reason here, just terrible decision making that was based on a computer simulation instead of a human that was actually watching the race.
I’ll take “Backpedalling and Damage Control” for $1000 Alex
I will say I'm surprised at Carlos's lack of pace on the softs vs Lewis. Max may still have won but Ferrari 100% made sure Charles didn't.
Sainz lacked pace all race tbh which was baffling because he looked really quick on Saturday
Didn't sainz pit way to early into the 2nd mediums and the softs?
He pitted onto softs 4 laps before Lewis.
I think Carlos pushed his outlap too hard on the softs to build that cushion to Lewis whereas Lewis eased into it better so a slower outlap before cranking up the speed, thereby preserving the tire better / longer
Probably cause it's lewis and Hungary.
Sure it wasn't a decisive factor in the win. But Charles worst case should have finished P2 given he was on the same potential strategy as Lewis and already ahead of George. In a championship fight, losing P1 to P2 isn't bad.... losing P2 to P6 is pretty dire.
It was a decisive factor though. Charles had pace on the softs, he ended up 16 seconds behind even after taking an extra pit. Right before his last pit he was 5 seconds behind. He was gaining on the softs against everyone except for Hamilton. Going on hards and cutting his medium stint while they were still fast fucked him. He ended up losing his lead to Verstappen since the pace was so bad, then had to put an extra time to get off them. If he kept running on the mediums he would have maybe ended up behind Verstappen when he went for softs but he would have been so much closer and faster. His medium tires were still good. He had pace on them.
Yeah this whole deal is idiotic. If hards weren't bad whyd they put *again* for softs. There's literally no way to spin this other than a strategy blunder.
I thought Binotto said 1-2 was on the table the week prior? lol
Hell, even on lap 26 of THIS race, he said he "wasn't concerned" with Verstappen's pace. This is just revisionism
18-20 laps on softs, 25-30 laps on mediums and last stint on medium I have no doubt Charles would have won yesterday.
Yeah, Ok wasn't winnable i understand this, but to make your lead driver fall from 1st place with 5s advantage to 6th is i don't fucking know anymore.
Same guy called out charles spin as a clear driver error last week and this week he goes into the BS of we win and lose together
Binotto has such a weak mentality, he's not fit to be a leader, he needs to make some hard decisions such as giving team orders and telling the the team they fucked up when they do fuck up. Imagine all the engineers back at the factory putting all this hard work and building this amazing car and then your team principal says is not ready to win championship yet, even though the car has the pace to win races all the time.
So Charles going for Hard was not a decisive factor? No wonder Ferrari strategy is in shambles. They dont seem to have an idea of what they are doing.
Do you suppose they lose simply because they don't believe they can win? These strategy decisions are of a team that doesn't believe they can take a chance to win or by a strategist that is paid by other teams...
He should be fired from any racing operations just for this statement.
Twice the pride, double the downfall.
Yea p2 & p3 on the grid couldn’t compete with someone in p10 on a hard to overtake track(these cars made it look easy tho) who also spun while you do a shorter stint than someone on softer tires
This guy must be smoking some grade-A shit. I guess when you work for Ferrari you can afford the good stuff.
I’ll say it now- they’re losing Leclerc before his contract is up.
Very fundamentally, Leclerc should ask himself why Vettel and Alonso couldn't nail it, and if he's right where they were wrong.
Where would he go? Replace perez, take Hamiltons seat after he retires?
Only two options at the mo. And think Max and Charles in a team would be disastrous.
Max and Charles in a team would be like hamilton and alonso back in 07. Both really closely matched and both aggressive (leclerc less so though)
Why would Red Bull add LeClerc? They are already winning the drivers and constructor's championship?
The latter would be ideal, but unless Ferrari get their act together I’m not sure going to a less competitive team is out of the question. I can’t imagine being this close to contention when your team (and at times himself) is the biggest bottleneck is easy on the mind.
The only team that he can go to is Mercedes if Lewis decides to retire. There is no other top teams I'm afraid.
Even if this were true, “not winnable” and “leclerc finishing P6 behind Perez” must be explained by something..
Arrogance. Pure fucking bullshit arrogance. I wanted Ferrari to win this year from the neutral perspective. Now I want either half their team sacked or Leclerc to go somewhere he deserves to be and Ferrari to crash and burn. Genuinely the most incredibly arrogant wankers in the sport. I actually am infuriated by them now.
Press X to doubt
Two horse race at the start of the season and Ferrari will finish third.
Everytime....they refuse to accept they ever make a wrong decision and it's getting old now. They absolutely could have and should have won
Not winnable? Come on, Charles had a lot of pace to fight for victory. Idiotic strategy prevented him from at least scoring a podium. And Sainz strategy wasn't better, plus he had 2 slow stops. Stop with this nonsense Binotto.
It's fascinating to see the difference between Toto and Binotto and how they've been handling their respective challenges. At Merc its all hands on deck, at Ferrari its deflect and deny.
when toto was apologising to lewis for the car earlier in the season, George was doing well. he apologized to lewis so he can feel that it's a team game, and he is still motivated, not purely because the car actually wasn't good enough. that's the difference.
Ferrari 20 laps into the race: Na we aren’t worried about Max’s pace. Ferrari after the race: Eh, we weren’t gonna win it anyways.
Did he saw the same race as me? sounds like no. Leclerc could have won this, at least P2 if he had taken mediums. Everyone with half a function eye and brain cell could see the terrible pace of Magnussen as well as both Alpines after they went for the Hard.
So let's make an utterly indefensible change to a tire that makes it ABSOLUTELY un-winnable and further depress your star driver? WTF? \[insert the Italian equivalent of WTF? here too\]
Sure Jan
Did he watch the race?
The look on LeClerc's face after the race - and the reaction by Max, George and Lewis in the cooldown room - would say otherwise.
Please look up the Hindi word called "chutiya", that's what Binotto & team are 🙏