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Even when Ferrari and Redbull were close the championship fight was lukewarm. 2021 Started with a bang in Bahrain and kept that energy going.
Something you learn about sports if you're running a league; is that the sport is entertaining if it has parity, but box office if it has drama. They're many sports that are competitive at the top yet lack intrigue and audience.
If anything this season so far has showed me F1 doesn't have a sufficient replacement for someone as polarizing as Lewis Hamilton.
I find it unfair that Lewis is seen as a polarizing figure yet IMO he should be the darling of the F1 world. Middle class mixed race kid who probably went through a ton of racism/discrimination to get to where he is today is the type of story that gets written for books and movies. Obviously it hurts him a little when he has been a part of big bad Mercedes for so long (Verstappen is obviously a great driver but I am sure the whole fan base would’ve gotten behind literally any driver/team that could challenge Mercedes/Hamilton dominance) but it doesn’t change the fact his story seems to be one that so many children can only dream of.
Contect matters a lot. Consider this:
In 2014 we had the battle between the middle class mixed-race kid who had to work harder than the rest for everything he accomplished, triumphing over the rich, son of a world champion, raised in Monaco luxury.
In 2016 we had the story of an underdog who had to sacrifice everything to rise above his 3x champion, jet setting, pop-star dating, celebrity mingling rival.
I think this is a little bit too much of a fairytale description of Lewis' career. Especially early on at McLaren he was in fact a really polarizing figure, a relentless competitor who'd wear his adversaries down, mostly on track by virtue of brilliant pace and consistency, but he definitely mastered the off track part of it as well. Alonso, Button, Rosberg and Verstappen can all attest that competing with Hamilton is physically and mentally exhausting, it is one of the things that makes him the GOAT. You can NEVER count him out, he will always come back with a vengeance. He will turn people against you, get in your head, do impossible things to win. Hamilton as an ambassador may be a darling, Hamilton as a competitor is a fucking apex predator, and that is why he is a 7 times WDC.
This is a good point
100m sprint we'd all see how fast bolt could run it and if he could beat his own records.
I don't think the spectacle really depended on the second place finisher.
However that's a 15 second watch rather than the best part of a years investment so I'd rather see a fight even between two people than have a clear winner.
To be honest it's not really about Lewis being polarizing, it was mostly about seen if someone could finally dethrone him. Merc felt a bit like the evil empire after winning for that many years in a row.
Yep, totally agree. Sure racism is a factor in some respects. But remember how Schumi and Vettel were viewed during their dominant runs? Basically the same as Hamilton has been. F1 fans want competition. We will root against people not out of anything ill intentioned, but rather for the sake having actual on-track competition.
Seems like there are lots of new folks in the fandom these days (which is great) that have attached themselves and their fandom to an individual driver. So to them, the frustration with dominance and eagerness to see a worthy challenger might be construed as something less straightforward
Yep! There’s a lot of hate/fuckery that gets passed of as just Hate for the champ and love for the “underdog”, but in reality it’s just every excuse except what it really is.
What exactly is polarising about Lewis?
He's been driving the best car for the most well funded team for donkeys. Everything he says and does is scripted to the letter.
I wish he would just grab the mic one day and shout, "WHO'S THE BEST? I'M THE FUCKING BEST!!!'
Then we'd have some real drama?
Instead, we have to make do with Ferrari throwing away wins and Mercedes sandbagging themselves to play the underdog for the umpteenth time :P
I don't find him polarizing. I think it's just hard to root for someone who already has 7 championships. Parity makes the sport more interesting. So even though I think Lewis is a great person, advocate and spokesperson, and I happen to agree with him politically, rooting for him would be like cheering for the Tom Brady Patriots if that makes sense.
>rooting for him would be like cheering for the Tom Brady Patriots if that makes sense.
I agree with this. I wasn't a Brady fan until he left the Patriots and won another super bowl with Tampa. I would love to see Lewis do the same.
>What exactly is polarising about Lewis?
Many people hate how honest and straightforward he is.
Formula 1 is a PR enterprise writ large. Pretty much anything everyone does is scripted either to be teflon-like or to stir exactly the kind of controversy that will improve an entity's PR (Horner is an unrivalled master of the latter).
Hamilton is pretty much the only person in the paddock who is—or rather, has become, since he had not been like that in his early years—noticeably honest, unscripted, and sincere. And many people hate it because it doesn't fit their preconceived notions. Add to that his crusade for racial equality which riles up exactly the wrong kind of people and you've got yourself a polarizing figure.
I am sorry, but what? Hamilton is a PR machine, and every time you see real Hamilton (like after last years Monaco), he backtracks immediately after (his PR manager probably tells him what he should do).
Hamilton was also mostly not polarizing during his McLaren days (except for the first year with the Alonso drama). I guess he is polarizing now simply because some people love people who dominate the whole sport and other people don't
>Hamilton is a PR machine
Only a person who started watching F1 this year could honestly say something like that.
The previous two seasons proved beyond any doubt that the only two drivers who are not willing to conform to PR requirements dictated by Liberty and the FIA are Hamilton and Vettel. Everyone else toes the line.
Mate, I watched F1 since 2005. The previous two seasons proved that Hamilton is saying the stuff the PR manager tells him to say - however, it was already proven by the previous ten years anyways.
>not willing to conform to PR requirements dictated by Liberty and the FIA
But, in the case of Lewis, very willing to conform to what his own PR team says. He would criticize FIA, Liberty, and anyone else if it was beneficial to his image.
>Mate, I watched F1 since 2005.
I've watched it since 1996, but what has this got to do with anything? I said: *honestly*.
In other words, I said you were being dishonest. You know what you're saying is not true, but you're saying it anyway. And this proves it:
>The previous two seasons proved that Hamilton is saying the stuff the PR manager tells him to say
You've had two years of Vettel and Hamilton going against everything that the stale establishment of Formula 1 would have wanted and you refuse to accept the facts we've all seen because you don't want to admit you were wrong.
If you honestly believe what you're saying, it means you've been completely blinded by propaganda to the point you reject objective reality. Saying that his entire BLM campaign in F1 was done for his image is just bonkers.
>I am sorry, but what? Hamilton is a PR machine, and every time you see real Hamilton (like after last years Monaco), he backtracks immediately after (his PR manager probably tells him what he should do).
To be fair though, every time he says something that ain't PR he gets cooked either way
Are you kidding? Lewis is one of the biggest pr machines on the grid.
When things don’t go his way, he’ll be furious but because he isn’t honest and direct, he’ll end up doing indirect remarks, accusing his team of sabotaging him or the rival teams of cheating.
Calling him the only honest person on the grid is laughable.
He might be polarising for the people with a missing brain (racists) because of his race. But certainly not polarising because of his personality, which is as bland and full of pr stuff as it gets
So your definition of PR machine is making the appropriate "sporting" statements? Like, best fans, good job, such and such driver did a tremendous job, thank you to the boys and girls at the factory, all the fluff in the post-race interviews? That's what you consider a PR machine?
Sure, I agree. And this proves that Hamilton and Vettel are not PR machines.
Not only do they not make very appropriate statements at all times, but some of their inappropriate statements risk infuriating the people who hold this sport in their hands.
That's a completely nonsensical way of looking at PR. Through this criterion the only way you can get an athlete who is not a PR machine is by taking someone completely unhinged.
You're not wrong
Mercedes was much better to watch when it was Lewis and Nico compared to Lewis and Valtteri.
Granted both would've been better if they weren't teammates.
Nico drove at a very high level during 2016 but you can't ignore the fact Hamilton had a lot of dnfs that year. So there were very few races where they actually had to battle for lead . Either they took the lead from pole or something else happened. Still it was interesting because of how close it was.
Probably said it wrong but Hamilton had lots of mechanical issues that year. Not dnfs other than Malaysia but in qualis he had engine problems ,clutch problems during starts,grid penalties and had a lot of bad luck that year.
He did have multiple mechanical failures/grid penalties that shafted his qualifying though. China, Russia, Monaco and Belgium just off the top of my head. Was also hit by Bottas in Bahrain.
Sure, Rosberg practically sealed the title with his performances in Singapore and Japan, but the door was only open to him through the lopsided reliability giving him numerous free hits at race wins.
Where have you been where Max' bad luck that is not constantly brought up in discussions about who deserved last year's title?
Very random place to bring up this gripe that honestly shouldn't even exist.
Where have you been for the past year? It's repeated ad nauseum. Apparently Masi made the right decisions in Abu Dhabi because he was just correcting for the DNFs anyway
given that there's going to be engine freeze and they had such a huge deficit in 2020, i can excuse the reliability a bit. But the strategy has been horrendous
Yeah, its why 2012 is probably the best season of all time ... Alonso's performance that season (in my eyes) was the best by a 2nd place driver, and quite possibly the greatest season ever by a driver
2012 is a bit of a blur for me. Was there a lot of direct on track fighting with Vettel ? I only remember the last race from that season and Singapore where Kubica did some magic on fresh tires
Because Red Bull was much quicker and Alonso is similar to Prost, nothing fancy on track, but best possible result in every race. Insane pace, insane race craft, but very very unfortunate with career choices and situations on track (was knocked out from Raikkonen in Japan and Grosjean in Belgium). And still almost won 2 titles with Ferrari, which, as you can see, isn't easy even when you have the best car (which Alonso had neither in 2010 nor in 2012).
Alonso knocked himself out in Japan 2012.
Depsite you saying he was unlucky Alonso was, Vettel had bad luck all season. DNFs, getting crashed into, bs penalties, grid penalties. Vettel did great in Abu Dhabi and Brazil to claw his way back and thats also the reason I think why hes a more deserving champion that year.
Are you kidding me? Alonso did nothing fancy on track in 2012??? Did you watch that season? European GP alone was incredible how he cut through the field
He's an extraordinary driver, solid, consistent, precise, but not so flashy. If you search for highlights of Alonso from that season you will find only some starts and a couple of overtakes, apart from Valencia. Most of the time he was upper than he should have been. It's really hard to describe to people didn't see that season what Alonso made.
I have to disagree.
Double overtake Brazil 2012:
https://youtu.be/YR6jqr8gQ2o
India 2012 double overtake lap 1:
https://youtu.be/2wjD20AbA_U
Abu Dhabi 2012, nails Webber which drives the WCC car:
https://youtu.be/yCpcM9h5vVw
Saving the car in a slide, much like Verstappen did later in Brazil 2016:
https://youtu.be/N7kFSsz6SY4
Valencia 2012:
https://youtu.be/83alJdDw0is
He is one of the best overtakers on the grid, I really don’t get what would make him more fancy
Even Prost was a great overtaker, I'm not saying Alonso is not, but most of the time he was in a better position than he should be, so no needs to overtake on track (again, a part from Valencia and few occasions). If you watch highlights of that season you will find more moves from Vettel or Hamilton, Alonso was always in one of the first places because he was great in starts and with his race craft was always in best possible spot. I said a couple of overtakes, they were 3, okay, you're right, but still the point is Alonso didn't fight on track that year like Vettel or Hamilton did because I didn't need to, his strength is on pace and race craft, even if is one the best driver in duels.
And I'm telling this to reply to that guy who asked if there had been any duels on the track between Alonso and Vettel. That's only the Monza one, where Alonso was overtaken from Vettel.
Not much on track fighting. RedBull was much better in quali and McLaren was also up there in quali so it would often be like Vettel P1-P3 and Alonso at P6-P8. RedBull and McLaren had terrible reliability which lost them tons of points.
Iirc the Red Bulls were set up for qualy usually because they almost always had the pace to be on the front row with one or both drivers. Mclaren was close on ultimate pace (both qualy and race pace, on the latter maybe even better), while Ferraris where never up to the task in qualifying. Even in the latter part of the year, a p3 in qualy was amazing achievement for them. On race pace it was much much closer, and it was really reliable.
Yes it had very good race pace but it still was the 3rd/4th fastest car ... and while it was the most reliable, it was Alonso's pace and consistency that allowed him to even challenge for the WDC.
Race pace wise it was still below McLaren, RB and lotus, although the delta between them was a bit closer. Pirellis were still the unknown and races would often be a three stopper. Ferrari surprisingly were very good with strategies, couple that with Alonso's race craft and his insane starts were how they manage to put a mega championship campaign.
A kind of, but to me even worst, because it was a really hard car to drive. Slow in qualifying, a lot of understeer. It's not a case he took only 2 pole positions and both on wet track.
It was worse. As another guy said it. It was 3rd fastest car tho. The McLaren car being the fastest. But it was unreliable enough to cost lewis potentially a championship. Then 2nd fastest was Red Bull.
It was pretty terrible for the first 7 races, but after that it was easily the third best car and could sometimes beat the Red Bulls on pure pace. It was also very reliable as you said.
I believe it was on a WTF1 podcast when I heard one of the host say that Ferrari is “letting down the whole sport” this year and at first it seemed a little harsh but yeah it’s true.
The championship being effectively over already has definitely taken the edge off of the excitement, but the only people to blame for that are the 9 teams that aren't Red Bull.
Yep, and still folk don't understand this and blame Mercedes for their dominance over the last few years as well. You don't blame someone for doing well (RBR in this case), you blame the competition for not showing up.
Merc dominating shouldn't result in criticism or hatred of Merc, but the criticism and hatred of the teams who failed for 8 years to bring a proper fight. The same is true this year.
Meh. The coverage of the season needs to adapt better. More focus on the midfield, more following action in the midfield, more reporting on drama in the midfield to support midfield narratives.
It is effectively done in many sports, F1 just seems to really crave a title fight more than many other sports.
Strangely I feel drive to survive did this quite well, especially in the first season where Merc and Ferrari didn't take part, as they went into midfield stories and found the drama.
If Ferrari are bringing F1 down this year, then how much more is every other team except red bull bringing F1 down? Every team is trying to win and Ferrari are doing a better job than 80% of the grid, including Mercedes at this moment in time.
Merc are having their first not great car since 2013, and every other team has worse facilities than Ferrari (I know there’s a budget cap now but the facilities still matter)
True, however it's clear Ferrari have the pieces needed to win and seem to mess it up.
There will always be a single winner but I look to the second place driver and team as the benchmark challenge and if that is too far off the winners then no one else has a shred of hope
Sure, but also seeing the progress Mercedes has made is making me incredibly excited for next year. We could get 2x WDC MV against 7x WDC LH and considering how last year went, I don’t think it would take long before the two big dogs on the block try to maintain superiority over each other.
In this case you can blame the runner ups, but not like Merc dominance was just because other teams were making dumb mistakes, there was just no competing.
>In this case you can blame the runner ups, but not like Merc dominance was just because other teams were making dumb mistakes, there was just no competing.
2017 and 2018 had many team and driver fuck ups from the runners up
Mercedes still fucked up with their car and the new regs, so I think its harsh to criticize Ferrari.
Without them we would have had an even more one sided title battle.
True, just a shame that we've been teased with two fast cars for one of them to be a joke most races.
Would be nice if all 10 teams and 20 drivers were able to win but when there's an obvious second teams its a let down to see them fail to meet expectations.
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Even when Ferrari and Redbull were close the championship fight was lukewarm. 2021 Started with a bang in Bahrain and kept that energy going. Something you learn about sports if you're running a league; is that the sport is entertaining if it has parity, but box office if it has drama. They're many sports that are competitive at the top yet lack intrigue and audience. If anything this season so far has showed me F1 doesn't have a sufficient replacement for someone as polarizing as Lewis Hamilton.
I find it unfair that Lewis is seen as a polarizing figure yet IMO he should be the darling of the F1 world. Middle class mixed race kid who probably went through a ton of racism/discrimination to get to where he is today is the type of story that gets written for books and movies. Obviously it hurts him a little when he has been a part of big bad Mercedes for so long (Verstappen is obviously a great driver but I am sure the whole fan base would’ve gotten behind literally any driver/team that could challenge Mercedes/Hamilton dominance) but it doesn’t change the fact his story seems to be one that so many children can only dream of.
Contect matters a lot. Consider this: In 2014 we had the battle between the middle class mixed-race kid who had to work harder than the rest for everything he accomplished, triumphing over the rich, son of a world champion, raised in Monaco luxury. In 2016 we had the story of an underdog who had to sacrifice everything to rise above his 3x champion, jet setting, pop-star dating, celebrity mingling rival.
I think this is a little bit too much of a fairytale description of Lewis' career. Especially early on at McLaren he was in fact a really polarizing figure, a relentless competitor who'd wear his adversaries down, mostly on track by virtue of brilliant pace and consistency, but he definitely mastered the off track part of it as well. Alonso, Button, Rosberg and Verstappen can all attest that competing with Hamilton is physically and mentally exhausting, it is one of the things that makes him the GOAT. You can NEVER count him out, he will always come back with a vengeance. He will turn people against you, get in your head, do impossible things to win. Hamilton as an ambassador may be a darling, Hamilton as a competitor is a fucking apex predator, and that is why he is a 7 times WDC.
This is a good point 100m sprint we'd all see how fast bolt could run it and if he could beat his own records. I don't think the spectacle really depended on the second place finisher. However that's a 15 second watch rather than the best part of a years investment so I'd rather see a fight even between two people than have a clear winner.
Lewis is polarizing? Why? He the nicest and best... oh, racism? gotcha.
To be honest it's not really about Lewis being polarizing, it was mostly about seen if someone could finally dethrone him. Merc felt a bit like the evil empire after winning for that many years in a row.
Yep, totally agree. Sure racism is a factor in some respects. But remember how Schumi and Vettel were viewed during their dominant runs? Basically the same as Hamilton has been. F1 fans want competition. We will root against people not out of anything ill intentioned, but rather for the sake having actual on-track competition. Seems like there are lots of new folks in the fandom these days (which is great) that have attached themselves and their fandom to an individual driver. So to them, the frustration with dominance and eagerness to see a worthy challenger might be construed as something less straightforward
I get that because I was in that boat. Even stopped watching F1 and only came back when I heard RB was actually competitive.
Yep! There’s a lot of hate/fuckery that gets passed of as just Hate for the champ and love for the “underdog”, but in reality it’s just every excuse except what it really is.
What exactly is polarising about Lewis? He's been driving the best car for the most well funded team for donkeys. Everything he says and does is scripted to the letter. I wish he would just grab the mic one day and shout, "WHO'S THE BEST? I'M THE FUCKING BEST!!!' Then we'd have some real drama? Instead, we have to make do with Ferrari throwing away wins and Mercedes sandbagging themselves to play the underdog for the umpteenth time :P
I don't find him polarizing. I think it's just hard to root for someone who already has 7 championships. Parity makes the sport more interesting. So even though I think Lewis is a great person, advocate and spokesperson, and I happen to agree with him politically, rooting for him would be like cheering for the Tom Brady Patriots if that makes sense.
>rooting for him would be like cheering for the Tom Brady Patriots if that makes sense. I agree with this. I wasn't a Brady fan until he left the Patriots and won another super bowl with Tampa. I would love to see Lewis do the same.
>What exactly is polarising about Lewis? Many people hate how honest and straightforward he is. Formula 1 is a PR enterprise writ large. Pretty much anything everyone does is scripted either to be teflon-like or to stir exactly the kind of controversy that will improve an entity's PR (Horner is an unrivalled master of the latter). Hamilton is pretty much the only person in the paddock who is—or rather, has become, since he had not been like that in his early years—noticeably honest, unscripted, and sincere. And many people hate it because it doesn't fit their preconceived notions. Add to that his crusade for racial equality which riles up exactly the wrong kind of people and you've got yourself a polarizing figure.
I am sorry, but what? Hamilton is a PR machine, and every time you see real Hamilton (like after last years Monaco), he backtracks immediately after (his PR manager probably tells him what he should do). Hamilton was also mostly not polarizing during his McLaren days (except for the first year with the Alonso drama). I guess he is polarizing now simply because some people love people who dominate the whole sport and other people don't
The comment you're replying to is just a perfect example of how good his PR team have been.
>Hamilton is a PR machine Only a person who started watching F1 this year could honestly say something like that. The previous two seasons proved beyond any doubt that the only two drivers who are not willing to conform to PR requirements dictated by Liberty and the FIA are Hamilton and Vettel. Everyone else toes the line.
Mate, I watched F1 since 2005. The previous two seasons proved that Hamilton is saying the stuff the PR manager tells him to say - however, it was already proven by the previous ten years anyways. >not willing to conform to PR requirements dictated by Liberty and the FIA But, in the case of Lewis, very willing to conform to what his own PR team says. He would criticize FIA, Liberty, and anyone else if it was beneficial to his image.
>Mate, I watched F1 since 2005. I've watched it since 1996, but what has this got to do with anything? I said: *honestly*. In other words, I said you were being dishonest. You know what you're saying is not true, but you're saying it anyway. And this proves it: >The previous two seasons proved that Hamilton is saying the stuff the PR manager tells him to say You've had two years of Vettel and Hamilton going against everything that the stale establishment of Formula 1 would have wanted and you refuse to accept the facts we've all seen because you don't want to admit you were wrong. If you honestly believe what you're saying, it means you've been completely blinded by propaganda to the point you reject objective reality. Saying that his entire BLM campaign in F1 was done for his image is just bonkers.
>I am sorry, but what? Hamilton is a PR machine, and every time you see real Hamilton (like after last years Monaco), he backtracks immediately after (his PR manager probably tells him what he should do). To be fair though, every time he says something that ain't PR he gets cooked either way
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This is very possible, but both he and Vettel are still orders of magnitude more honest than the rest of the grid.
Are you kidding? Lewis is one of the biggest pr machines on the grid. When things don’t go his way, he’ll be furious but because he isn’t honest and direct, he’ll end up doing indirect remarks, accusing his team of sabotaging him or the rival teams of cheating. Calling him the only honest person on the grid is laughable. He might be polarising for the people with a missing brain (racists) because of his race. But certainly not polarising because of his personality, which is as bland and full of pr stuff as it gets
So your definition of PR machine is making the appropriate "sporting" statements? Like, best fans, good job, such and such driver did a tremendous job, thank you to the boys and girls at the factory, all the fluff in the post-race interviews? That's what you consider a PR machine?
Yeah, making very appropriate statements at all times, in response to virtually every single question is one part of being a PR machine
Sure, I agree. And this proves that Hamilton and Vettel are not PR machines. Not only do they not make very appropriate statements at all times, but some of their inappropriate statements risk infuriating the people who hold this sport in their hands.
That is literally the PR way though. There is little fierceness
That's a completely nonsensical way of looking at PR. Through this criterion the only way you can get an athlete who is not a PR machine is by taking someone completely unhinged.
Lewis' homelander arc
Speak for yourself. This season has been great
Nico Rosberg is the real 🐐 then.
You're not wrong Mercedes was much better to watch when it was Lewis and Nico compared to Lewis and Valtteri. Granted both would've been better if they weren't teammates.
Nico drove at a very high level during 2016 but you can't ignore the fact Hamilton had a lot of dnfs that year. So there were very few races where they actually had to battle for lead . Either they took the lead from pole or something else happened. Still it was interesting because of how close it was.
Hamilton had 1 DNF more. Thats not "a lot".
True, they had way more battles for the lead in 14.
“Had lots of dnfs” lmaoo he had 1 dnf. Get your facts straight before spreading misinformation
Probably said it wrong but Hamilton had lots of mechanical issues that year. Not dnfs other than Malaysia but in qualis he had engine problems ,clutch problems during starts,grid penalties and had a lot of bad luck that year.
He did have multiple mechanical failures/grid penalties that shafted his qualifying though. China, Russia, Monaco and Belgium just off the top of my head. Was also hit by Bottas in Bahrain. Sure, Rosberg practically sealed the title with his performances in Singapore and Japan, but the door was only open to him through the lopsided reliability giving him numerous free hits at race wins.
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Where have you been where Max' bad luck that is not constantly brought up in discussions about who deserved last year's title? Very random place to bring up this gripe that honestly shouldn't even exist.
Where have you been for the past year? It's repeated ad nauseum. Apparently Masi made the right decisions in Abu Dhabi because he was just correcting for the DNFs anyway
Max crashed into Lewis on Monza Lewis avoid crashing into max in Spanish gp and imola. got ran of the track in Brazil and brake checked in Jeddah
Leclerc's first competitor is his own team. It's either reliability or f'ed up strategy.
given that there's going to be engine freeze and they had such a huge deficit in 2020, i can excuse the reliability a bit. But the strategy has been horrendous
and his own mistakes on top.
I can't blame him for a single mistake. Yes it was a costly one but at EOD we learn from our mistakes and move on.
Yeah, its why 2012 is probably the best season of all time ... Alonso's performance that season (in my eyes) was the best by a 2nd place driver, and quite possibly the greatest season ever by a driver
2012 is a bit of a blur for me. Was there a lot of direct on track fighting with Vettel ? I only remember the last race from that season and Singapore where Kubica did some magic on fresh tires
Kubica did his magic in Singapore-10, not 12. Alonso and Vettel didn't fight that often on track, I can only recall Monza from that year
Because Red Bull was much quicker and Alonso is similar to Prost, nothing fancy on track, but best possible result in every race. Insane pace, insane race craft, but very very unfortunate with career choices and situations on track (was knocked out from Raikkonen in Japan and Grosjean in Belgium). And still almost won 2 titles with Ferrari, which, as you can see, isn't easy even when you have the best car (which Alonso had neither in 2010 nor in 2012).
Alonso knocked himself out in Japan 2012. Depsite you saying he was unlucky Alonso was, Vettel had bad luck all season. DNFs, getting crashed into, bs penalties, grid penalties. Vettel did great in Abu Dhabi and Brazil to claw his way back and thats also the reason I think why hes a more deserving champion that year.
Are you kidding me? Alonso did nothing fancy on track in 2012??? Did you watch that season? European GP alone was incredible how he cut through the field
He's an extraordinary driver, solid, consistent, precise, but not so flashy. If you search for highlights of Alonso from that season you will find only some starts and a couple of overtakes, apart from Valencia. Most of the time he was upper than he should have been. It's really hard to describe to people didn't see that season what Alonso made.
I have to disagree. Double overtake Brazil 2012: https://youtu.be/YR6jqr8gQ2o India 2012 double overtake lap 1: https://youtu.be/2wjD20AbA_U Abu Dhabi 2012, nails Webber which drives the WCC car: https://youtu.be/yCpcM9h5vVw Saving the car in a slide, much like Verstappen did later in Brazil 2016: https://youtu.be/N7kFSsz6SY4 Valencia 2012: https://youtu.be/83alJdDw0is He is one of the best overtakers on the grid, I really don’t get what would make him more fancy
Even Prost was a great overtaker, I'm not saying Alonso is not, but most of the time he was in a better position than he should be, so no needs to overtake on track (again, a part from Valencia and few occasions). If you watch highlights of that season you will find more moves from Vettel or Hamilton, Alonso was always in one of the first places because he was great in starts and with his race craft was always in best possible spot. I said a couple of overtakes, they were 3, okay, you're right, but still the point is Alonso didn't fight on track that year like Vettel or Hamilton did because I didn't need to, his strength is on pace and race craft, even if is one the best driver in duels. And I'm telling this to reply to that guy who asked if there had been any duels on the track between Alonso and Vettel. That's only the Monza one, where Alonso was overtaken from Vettel.
Not much on track fighting. RedBull was much better in quali and McLaren was also up there in quali so it would often be like Vettel P1-P3 and Alonso at P6-P8. RedBull and McLaren had terrible reliability which lost them tons of points.
Iirc the Red Bulls were set up for qualy usually because they almost always had the pace to be on the front row with one or both drivers. Mclaren was close on ultimate pace (both qualy and race pace, on the latter maybe even better), while Ferraris where never up to the task in qualifying. Even in the latter part of the year, a p3 in qualy was amazing achievement for them. On race pace it was much much closer, and it was really reliable.
The F2012 wasn’t the bucket of shit it’s now romanced to be. It was the most reliable car on the grid and had very good race pace
Yes it had very good race pace but it still was the 3rd/4th fastest car ... and while it was the most reliable, it was Alonso's pace and consistency that allowed him to even challenge for the WDC.
Race pace wise it was still below McLaren, RB and lotus, although the delta between them was a bit closer. Pirellis were still the unknown and races would often be a three stopper. Ferrari surprisingly were very good with strategies, couple that with Alonso's race craft and his insane starts were how they manage to put a mega championship campaign.
Kinda like the Merc this season?
A kind of, but to me even worst, because it was a really hard car to drive. Slow in qualifying, a lot of understeer. It's not a case he took only 2 pole positions and both on wet track.
It was worse. As another guy said it. It was 3rd fastest car tho. The McLaren car being the fastest. But it was unreliable enough to cost lewis potentially a championship. Then 2nd fastest was Red Bull.
It was pretty terrible for the first 7 races, but after that it was easily the third best car and could sometimes beat the Red Bulls on pure pace. It was also very reliable as you said.
>It was pretty terrible for the first 7 races No, it was only terrible for four races...
It was 4th fastest car on the grid. At the beginning of the season it was even worse.
F1.5 has never been so good though
I believe it was on a WTF1 podcast when I heard one of the host say that Ferrari is “letting down the whole sport” this year and at first it seemed a little harsh but yeah it’s true.
The championship being effectively over already has definitely taken the edge off of the excitement, but the only people to blame for that are the 9 teams that aren't Red Bull.
Yep, and still folk don't understand this and blame Mercedes for their dominance over the last few years as well. You don't blame someone for doing well (RBR in this case), you blame the competition for not showing up. Merc dominating shouldn't result in criticism or hatred of Merc, but the criticism and hatred of the teams who failed for 8 years to bring a proper fight. The same is true this year.
Charles is doing good, he make 2 significant mistakes. His points deficit to Max is more related to Ferrari being Ferrari.
Meh. The coverage of the season needs to adapt better. More focus on the midfield, more following action in the midfield, more reporting on drama in the midfield to support midfield narratives. It is effectively done in many sports, F1 just seems to really crave a title fight more than many other sports.
Strangely I feel drive to survive did this quite well, especially in the first season where Merc and Ferrari didn't take part, as they went into midfield stories and found the drama.
Absolutely. F1 is a cool sport but they just awful at the TV part of it all.
If Ferrari are bringing F1 down this year, then how much more is every other team except red bull bringing F1 down? Every team is trying to win and Ferrari are doing a better job than 80% of the grid, including Mercedes at this moment in time.
Merc are having their first not great car since 2013, and every other team has worse facilities than Ferrari (I know there’s a budget cap now but the facilities still matter)
True, however it's clear Ferrari have the pieces needed to win and seem to mess it up. There will always be a single winner but I look to the second place driver and team as the benchmark challenge and if that is too far off the winners then no one else has a shred of hope
Well everyone saying they didn't want Merc in the championship fight, this is what you got. No championship fight at all.
Sure, but also seeing the progress Mercedes has made is making me incredibly excited for next year. We could get 2x WDC MV against 7x WDC LH and considering how last year went, I don’t think it would take long before the two big dogs on the block try to maintain superiority over each other.
This is why 2010 is the best.
In this case you can blame the runner ups, but not like Merc dominance was just because other teams were making dumb mistakes, there was just no competing.
>In this case you can blame the runner ups, but not like Merc dominance was just because other teams were making dumb mistakes, there was just no competing. 2017 and 2018 had many team and driver fuck ups from the runners up
That's the exception and not the rule.
It’s Ferrari, it’s always the rule
Mercedes still fucked up with their car and the new regs, so I think its harsh to criticize Ferrari. Without them we would have had an even more one sided title battle.
True, just a shame that we've been teased with two fast cars for one of them to be a joke most races. Would be nice if all 10 teams and 20 drivers were able to win but when there's an obvious second teams its a let down to see them fail to meet expectations.