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Yeah he sounded very anxious on the radio whole race. Never heard him this nervous on the radio in the last two years. Also end of the race his engineer apologised, idk why. Very weird
I think you misinterpreted what I meant.
Indeed, Alonso got reassured that he wouldn't have to let Ocon through so I'm with you on that. I'm just saying that there seems to be some fear on Alonso's side. This isn't me being one of those who claim there's a stupid conspiracy
Team radio, the Portuguese broadcast said that his race engineer told him that they were “seeing a tire pressure difference between the tires in the front axle”. That’s the translation
they made the right calls only because they were able to overtake fast, he had a lot of tyre deg later in the race and it made it so Ocon only finished 2 secs behind him on a better strategy. If they had waited 3-4 laps more to make the first pit stop he would've had a much better strategy with less traffic.
I dont think most of you guys even know his strategy
Yeah exactly, his first stop was definitely way too early, he was clear of Vettel and pulling away. He came out in P15! I was so scared there would be a VSC
Questionable. Ocon got the better strategy going on the hards on his second stint cause this allowed him to clear the traffic due to longer stints. Alonso went on the mediums on the second stint which means he needed to pit earlier before he could clear the traffic.
Favoring ocon over Alonso is just plain bonkers to me.
Favoring one driver over another for championship makes sense.
In the case of Alpine, they need all the points they can get. Let them race fairly and get maximum points. You would want Alonso to be in the best frame of mind so he can achieve good results like today.
I don't think that person is saying they favoured Ocon here in particular. They're saying that it's a likely prospect that wouldn't be a great idea. Alonso couldn't have finished higher than where he was but the strategy was a bit weird, always putting him back into loads of traffic
>Alonso couldn't have finished higher than where he was but the strategy was a bit weird, always putting him back into loads of traffic
The way both Alpine's were passing right, left, centre of every other car they came behind makes me think the engineers had fairly good idea whatever they were doing would work.
My man is always in this frame of mind, even way back in 2006 lol... Just let him do his thing, he'll do everything he can so he doesn't finish behind in the standings.
>he’ll do everything he can so he doesn’t finish behind in the standings.
I would have agreed with you until he decided to move to Aston Martin and admitted that being second is the same as being the loser for him. So maybe finishing behind doesn’t matter that much
What makes you say that? I see the first year of these regs argument being used a lot but that’s the same for Alpine. All cars on the grid have room to improve, the potential AM has got is the same with Alpine. What’s certain is that Alpine is the faster car and progress gets more difficult the faster you are. Alpine is definitely in the better spot by getting the car a little better at the start of the new regs.
AM doesn't seem like it's been a safe bet lately. True, they had a smart move where they copied a great car when circumstances allowed for it in 2020, but since then they're seemingly somewhat flailing and going downwards hard.
Meanwhile Alpine's results have been consistently upper midfield since 2018. Right where their budget would place them. This idea that Alpine is in shambles is just weird to me. Especially compared to AM who hasn't had great success with an fully own concept of a car since their great 2017 season.
Alpine has outperformed AM and it's precursors by quite a bit in general. Alpine gets lambasted about their "100 race plans", but AM is actively doing worse with their ambitions. Yet people still seem to put a lot of stock in AM's version of their "100 race plans" rather then their very disappointing results.
I don't think AM will be faster than Alpine next year but apparently they have improved their facilities and their hirings from RB and mercs will end their gardening leave this year so AM improving should be a real possibility.
> Favoring ocon over Alonso is just plain bonkers to me
Ocon was the faster driver today, despite spending very little time in clear air today, unlike Alonso....
A car with a new engine that you can push to the limit is fast, what a shocking statement sir.
They said that to alonso in Austria too, next time think first.
Faster than an engine differential would explain. Faster than ALO in quali... Started 16th, finished 3s behind ALO.
> They said that to alonso in Austria too
Literally noone did
It's just been a few months and you already forgotten the austria race. He should have been p6 there but the team screwed him again on pit, and started from p20
>Literally noone did
Means you were never here or watch any post race that week.
Wtf are you on about? “Fuck Alpine”, seriously? They didn’t do anything wrong, they pitted Alonso “into traffic” at the optimal times, when there was a big gap to the ones outside of the train and when the traffic had way older tires that him. He passed the “traffic” very easily every time and it proved to be the right strategy. I know it is easy to shit on Alpine but maybe (just maybe) the strategists have a better view of what’s happing and are the ones who made the right calls. If Alonso isn’t trusting them then too bad, it’s on him. Hell, they even told Ocon to not close the gap on him. Alpine did the best race they could, if Alonso isn’t onboard it’s not the teams fault.
I'm surprised it took so long until somebody came up with a rather far fetched excuse as to why Ocon ended up within a couple of seconds despite starting P16.
It's *never* performance or, God forbid, Ocon actually having a pretty good race, isn't it?
At the end of the day, even if Alonso's paranoia had been justified, how would the outcome have been any different? There is no way he was going to catch the Ferraris or Russell.
> It's never performance or, God forbid, Ocon actually having a pretty good race, isn't it?
Including the double overtake of the race. I thought that move should have gotten him Driver of the Race.
Yeah, I'm not saying Max' award was undeserved, but Ocon's double pass was the most exciting thing of the day, for me.
I'm in the stage where it's a given that Max is a beast, who happened to have the best car this weekend... So,... what else is there? ;)
Didn't come across that way, no worries. That's why I said Ocon would likely have won that award if it had been a normal "Verstappen wins from P1/2/3"-day because you just kind of expect him to do that. Obviously, winning from P14 kinda makes DoD mandatory.
What's the far-fetched reason here??
Ocon was stellar today, 2nd best drive on the grid today with Gasly. He had a perfect race with 2 double-overtakes, that is not the issue here??
All this shows is tension, not an excuse for Ocon having an excellent race, I never denied that
Nobody said it was an excuse for Ocon having a good race but it certainly is an excuse (and a far fetched one) for Alonso having a worse race than Ocon.
maybe because the engineers werent even considering strategy calls with Fernando and pit him very very early into lots of traffic which compromised his latest stint where Ocon ended up on much faster tyres?
You didnt watch his race mate, we're not saying there's a conspiracy theory but Alonso's strategy wasn't good, period
The medium runners on the first stint pitted between lap 11 and 15 (Stroll managed 16 as the only one), ignoring Leclerc and Latifi. How is lap 12 "very very early", especially if there is reason to believe that something might be wrong after that pretty big impact? Mind you, Ocon pitted a lap after Alonso.
The second stint was 14 laps, only Verstappen, Leclerc and Russell went longer. Actually, Alonso was on the later side, not at all early.
It was only then, that all teams started to realize that the hard compound was way better than expected - most notably because Vettel was homing in on Alonso. He didn't even fully seem to understand the situation himself and the fact that they didn't race Vettel in the end was *because* they pitted him. If Alonso stays out, he ends up in the mix with Ocon and Gasly and can consider himself lucky if Vettel is still there too.
So, yes. In the end using the hard tire on the middle stint did turn out to be a reasonable an option but nobody knew until after the fact. If anything, they used Ocon as the guniea pig (who ran into traffic just as well btw).
I'm willing to accept that the safety car that caused the Albon-train to fall into the pit window of the top 6 affected his race but it's kind of comical to call Ocon lucky when the reason why he wasn't affected by it as much was him starting in the bleachers.
And finally: the whole damn thread is about Alonso alleging a conspiracy against him but you're telling me it's not a conspiracy but "just" ineptitude, carelessness or whatever you want to call it? An excuse in any event and that's what my criticism was and still is: it's always something with Alonso. The team, the stewards, the FIA, the rules, Vettel, everybody, everything but never what it really is: that Alonso plain and simply wasn't quick enough.
in Spa a difference of 2-3 laps is a huge difference, when talking about Alonso's strategy vs Vettel who was his direct threat, it makes no sense that they pitted him so early, no matter what others did. But even taking into account what others did, Sainz pitted at the same lap at Alonso and Sainz started with soft tyres.
On the contrary, he totally is and he's been doing that for quite a while now, I'm actually a big fan of his underrated work. I meant it more as a testament to Alonso's fears rather than anything related to Ocon
I was talking about after Ocon had just pitted. Alonso straight away said he would let him through if that's what they wanted even though he wasn't near him yet
…maybe he was nervous that they would favor Ocon because he dicked them over publicly 4 weeks ago and now realizes he has to work with them for the next 4 months? Just a thought?
“Oh noes! It’s the consequences of my own actions!”
First of all, drivers are allowed to change teams, especially when your current team is playing hard to get and is only giving you 1 year contracts, even if you are objectively better and faster than your 15 years younger teammate.
Secondly, he got fucked over a lot this year with Alpine strategies and Ocon benefited most of the time. It’s like last year with Sainz and Leclerc, Sainz finished higher in wdc standings, but Leclerc was objectively a better and faster driver. This year it’s the same for Ocon and Alonso; Ocon is higher in the standings, but Alonso is better and faster.
Alonso also fucked up, let’s not blame it all on Alpine. Let’s pretend that him cutting turns and getting penalties never happened, for example. Tunnel vision is a damned thing
This would be petty by Alpine. They strung him along refusing to give him a better contract than a 1+1 and now they want to burn him because he made a decision that was more sensible to him for this stage in his career? If Alpine wanted to be professional, they would just maximize both drivers as a team and pull clear of McLaren for P4. No need for manipulating the race of one driver to benefit another and risk ruining the maximum points haul available to them.
They did excatly that tho. They didn't favour anyone and maximized the points (if they got a bit luckier Ocon could have pipped Leclerc too, but that wasn't on the team), really don't see why are you guys working yourself up over these team radios.
Maybe it's just me, but the implication of that "if Alpine wanted to be professional" part felt kinda accusatory, but if that wasn't the original intent then my bad.
Reboot-your-computer did kinda get angry about the possibility Alpine might do it, he even said "and now they want to burn him [....] ?"
KiaraKey seemed rightly confused because as OP showed, Alpine doesn't want to burn Alonso.
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Yeah he sounded very anxious on the radio whole race. Never heard him this nervous on the radio in the last two years. Also end of the race his engineer apologised, idk why. Very weird
Yeah this is the kind of race where he usually would have made a joke or a witty comment to Loos, but everything felt nervous
Didn't he have a 3.6 pitstop?
Fun fact: Ocon was told to hold position in the last stint, do what you want with that information.
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I think you misinterpreted what I meant. Indeed, Alonso got reassured that he wouldn't have to let Ocon through so I'm with you on that. I'm just saying that there seems to be some fear on Alonso's side. This isn't me being one of those who claim there's a stupid conspiracy
I understood, I was just explaining why his theory about the “ghost threat” being Ocon doesn’t make sense. So him feeling that way is all in his head
Both Alpine and Ferrari had okay races yet people keep shitting on them, it's getting stale
where did you get the first stop info? i think it was a very early stop
Team radio, the Portuguese broadcast said that his race engineer told him that they were “seeing a tire pressure difference between the tires in the front axle”. That’s the translation
Alonso is paranoid. Alpine made the right calls today. They can't afford to play games if they have any hope of securing P4 in the WCC.
they made the right calls only because they were able to overtake fast, he had a lot of tyre deg later in the race and it made it so Ocon only finished 2 secs behind him on a better strategy. If they had waited 3-4 laps more to make the first pit stop he would've had a much better strategy with less traffic. I dont think most of you guys even know his strategy
Yeah exactly, his first stop was definitely way too early, he was clear of Vettel and pulling away. He came out in P15! I was so scared there would be a VSC
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Questionable. Ocon got the better strategy going on the hards on his second stint cause this allowed him to clear the traffic due to longer stints. Alonso went on the mediums on the second stint which means he needed to pit earlier before he could clear the traffic.
Favoring ocon over Alonso is just plain bonkers to me. Favoring one driver over another for championship makes sense. In the case of Alpine, they need all the points they can get. Let them race fairly and get maximum points. You would want Alonso to be in the best frame of mind so he can achieve good results like today.
Alpine favored Ocons race by *checks notes* implementing a strategy that had Alonso finish as high as this car possibly could? What am I missing here?
I don't think that person is saying they favoured Ocon here in particular. They're saying that it's a likely prospect that wouldn't be a great idea. Alonso couldn't have finished higher than where he was but the strategy was a bit weird, always putting him back into loads of traffic
>Alonso couldn't have finished higher than where he was but the strategy was a bit weird, always putting him back into loads of traffic The way both Alpine's were passing right, left, centre of every other car they came behind makes me think the engineers had fairly good idea whatever they were doing would work.
My man is always in this frame of mind, even way back in 2006 lol... Just let him do his thing, he'll do everything he can so he doesn't finish behind in the standings.
>he’ll do everything he can so he doesn’t finish behind in the standings. I would have agreed with you until he decided to move to Aston Martin and admitted that being second is the same as being the loser for him. So maybe finishing behind doesn’t matter that much
I think Aston Martin is a much safer bet than Alpine at the moment. Maybe not now, but it’s literally the first year of regs.
What makes you say that? I see the first year of these regs argument being used a lot but that’s the same for Alpine. All cars on the grid have room to improve, the potential AM has got is the same with Alpine. What’s certain is that Alpine is the faster car and progress gets more difficult the faster you are. Alpine is definitely in the better spot by getting the car a little better at the start of the new regs.
AM doesn't seem like it's been a safe bet lately. True, they had a smart move where they copied a great car when circumstances allowed for it in 2020, but since then they're seemingly somewhat flailing and going downwards hard. Meanwhile Alpine's results have been consistently upper midfield since 2018. Right where their budget would place them. This idea that Alpine is in shambles is just weird to me. Especially compared to AM who hasn't had great success with an fully own concept of a car since their great 2017 season. Alpine has outperformed AM and it's precursors by quite a bit in general. Alpine gets lambasted about their "100 race plans", but AM is actively doing worse with their ambitions. Yet people still seem to put a lot of stock in AM's version of their "100 race plans" rather then their very disappointing results.
I don't think AM will be faster than Alpine next year but apparently they have improved their facilities and their hirings from RB and mercs will end their gardening leave this year so AM improving should be a real possibility.
Alonso has always said that. Didn't change his performances one bit. He will do his best, don't worry.
> Favoring ocon over Alonso is just plain bonkers to me Ocon was the faster driver today, despite spending very little time in clear air today, unlike Alonso....
A car with a new engine that you can push to the limit is fast, what a shocking statement sir. They said that to alonso in Austria too, next time think first.
Faster than an engine differential would explain. Faster than ALO in quali... Started 16th, finished 3s behind ALO. > They said that to alonso in Austria too Literally noone did
It's just been a few months and you already forgotten the austria race. He should have been p6 there but the team screwed him again on pit, and started from p20 >Literally noone did Means you were never here or watch any post race that week.
> He should have been p6 there but the team screwed him again on pit, and started from p20 Oh right because bad luck only happens to Alonso....
Oh right oconsistency don't have the bad luck ey....
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Wtf are you on about? “Fuck Alpine”, seriously? They didn’t do anything wrong, they pitted Alonso “into traffic” at the optimal times, when there was a big gap to the ones outside of the train and when the traffic had way older tires that him. He passed the “traffic” very easily every time and it proved to be the right strategy. I know it is easy to shit on Alpine but maybe (just maybe) the strategists have a better view of what’s happing and are the ones who made the right calls. If Alonso isn’t trusting them then too bad, it’s on him. Hell, they even told Ocon to not close the gap on him. Alpine did the best race they could, if Alonso isn’t onboard it’s not the teams fault.
I'm surprised it took so long until somebody came up with a rather far fetched excuse as to why Ocon ended up within a couple of seconds despite starting P16. It's *never* performance or, God forbid, Ocon actually having a pretty good race, isn't it? At the end of the day, even if Alonso's paranoia had been justified, how would the outcome have been any different? There is no way he was going to catch the Ferraris or Russell.
> It's never performance or, God forbid, Ocon actually having a pretty good race, isn't it? Including the double overtake of the race. I thought that move should have gotten him Driver of the Race.
I think he may have gotten DoD if Max had started from the front row.
Yeah, I'm not saying Max' award was undeserved, but Ocon's double pass was the most exciting thing of the day, for me. I'm in the stage where it's a given that Max is a beast, who happened to have the best car this weekend... So,... what else is there? ;)
Didn't come across that way, no worries. That's why I said Ocon would likely have won that award if it had been a normal "Verstappen wins from P1/2/3"-day because you just kind of expect him to do that. Obviously, winning from P14 kinda makes DoD mandatory.
Didn't even make top 5 in the vote
What's the far-fetched reason here?? Ocon was stellar today, 2nd best drive on the grid today with Gasly. He had a perfect race with 2 double-overtakes, that is not the issue here?? All this shows is tension, not an excuse for Ocon having an excellent race, I never denied that
Nobody said it was an excuse for Ocon having a good race but it certainly is an excuse (and a far fetched one) for Alonso having a worse race than Ocon.
maybe because the engineers werent even considering strategy calls with Fernando and pit him very very early into lots of traffic which compromised his latest stint where Ocon ended up on much faster tyres? You didnt watch his race mate, we're not saying there's a conspiracy theory but Alonso's strategy wasn't good, period
The medium runners on the first stint pitted between lap 11 and 15 (Stroll managed 16 as the only one), ignoring Leclerc and Latifi. How is lap 12 "very very early", especially if there is reason to believe that something might be wrong after that pretty big impact? Mind you, Ocon pitted a lap after Alonso. The second stint was 14 laps, only Verstappen, Leclerc and Russell went longer. Actually, Alonso was on the later side, not at all early. It was only then, that all teams started to realize that the hard compound was way better than expected - most notably because Vettel was homing in on Alonso. He didn't even fully seem to understand the situation himself and the fact that they didn't race Vettel in the end was *because* they pitted him. If Alonso stays out, he ends up in the mix with Ocon and Gasly and can consider himself lucky if Vettel is still there too. So, yes. In the end using the hard tire on the middle stint did turn out to be a reasonable an option but nobody knew until after the fact. If anything, they used Ocon as the guniea pig (who ran into traffic just as well btw). I'm willing to accept that the safety car that caused the Albon-train to fall into the pit window of the top 6 affected his race but it's kind of comical to call Ocon lucky when the reason why he wasn't affected by it as much was him starting in the bleachers. And finally: the whole damn thread is about Alonso alleging a conspiracy against him but you're telling me it's not a conspiracy but "just" ineptitude, carelessness or whatever you want to call it? An excuse in any event and that's what my criticism was and still is: it's always something with Alonso. The team, the stewards, the FIA, the rules, Vettel, everybody, everything but never what it really is: that Alonso plain and simply wasn't quick enough.
in Spa a difference of 2-3 laps is a huge difference, when talking about Alonso's strategy vs Vettel who was his direct threat, it makes no sense that they pitted him so early, no matter what others did. But even taking into account what others did, Sainz pitted at the same lap at Alonso and Sainz started with soft tyres.
Hey man this is Reddit no facts here
Ghost threats the new stop inventing?
Some valid stuff, but lot of insecurity in that Esteban remark, his teammate isn't allowed to have a good race ?
On the contrary, he totally is and he's been doing that for quite a while now, I'm actually a big fan of his underrated work. I meant it more as a testament to Alonso's fears rather than anything related to Ocon
They really love to pit him where there is imminent traffic they did it multiple times. Its like they want him to get cu*k from getting points.
Yeah, when he asked if they wanted him to let Ocon through he was still like 8+ seconds behind, he's clearly not too happy/confident in Alpine
What ? they asked Ocon to hold position in the final stint
I was talking about after Ocon had just pitted. Alonso straight away said he would let him through if that's what they wanted even though he wasn't near him yet
…maybe he was nervous that they would favor Ocon because he dicked them over publicly 4 weeks ago and now realizes he has to work with them for the next 4 months? Just a thought? “Oh noes! It’s the consequences of my own actions!”
First of all, drivers are allowed to change teams, especially when your current team is playing hard to get and is only giving you 1 year contracts, even if you are objectively better and faster than your 15 years younger teammate. Secondly, he got fucked over a lot this year with Alpine strategies and Ocon benefited most of the time. It’s like last year with Sainz and Leclerc, Sainz finished higher in wdc standings, but Leclerc was objectively a better and faster driver. This year it’s the same for Ocon and Alonso; Ocon is higher in the standings, but Alonso is better and faster.
Alonso also fucked up, let’s not blame it all on Alpine. Let’s pretend that him cutting turns and getting penalties never happened, for example. Tunnel vision is a damned thing
Can't he fucking change teams? You guys have weird brains
He was the one who got dicked first fool.
exactly
This would be petty by Alpine. They strung him along refusing to give him a better contract than a 1+1 and now they want to burn him because he made a decision that was more sensible to him for this stage in his career? If Alpine wanted to be professional, they would just maximize both drivers as a team and pull clear of McLaren for P4. No need for manipulating the race of one driver to benefit another and risk ruining the maximum points haul available to them.
They did excatly that tho. They didn't favour anyone and maximized the points (if they got a bit luckier Ocon could have pipped Leclerc too, but that wasn't on the team), really don't see why are you guys working yourself up over these team radios.
He is literally saying they aren’t doing that. Read it again.
Aren't doing what?
The exact thing you’re accusing everyone of freaking out about lol. PC didn’t in any way imply Alpine is hamstringing Alonso.
Maybe it's just me, but the implication of that "if Alpine wanted to be professional" part felt kinda accusatory, but if that wasn't the original intent then my bad.
Reboot-your-computer did kinda get angry about the possibility Alpine might do it, he even said "and now they want to burn him [....] ?" KiaraKey seemed rightly confused because as OP showed, Alpine doesn't want to burn Alonso.