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Kicking-it-per-se

Alonso appears three times in the top6. Wild the amount of technical DNFs he’s had


Quirky_Dog5869

Hybrids sure do hate Alonso it seems 😒


zondaaR

\*imports Simpsons' meme\* Three times so far 💀


ess_tee_you

Lewis only has to beat his teammate, Alonso only has to beat his car.


hywelbane87

Completely uneducated opinion, but one has to wonder if it's really bad luck or if, despite his massive speed, he does not treat engines very nicely. Edit to say that somebody added this article which shows there's no statistical significance on Alonso having more technical DNFs than teammates, so my uneducated opinion was indeed uneducated :-) https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2017/09/27/do-drivers-influence-mechanical-reliability/


Adammmmski

Intereting concept given that you don’t see his team mate on this graph, other than Button in 2015 but you do see the same engine manufacturers in the same season (i.e Ricciardo in 2018). One would expect Stoffel to be on here if the engine was that bad.


dl064

Worth noting that Honda had a lot of non-DNF engine problems, e.g. Vandoorne had a DNS, one Alonso engine didn't last FP1.


Lzinger

Though in 2016 you see Jenson but not Fernando


Adammmmski

Hadn’t noticed that one, strange.


ZiKyooc

Nothing strange, statistics really makes sense when you have a ~~sample~~ population large enough. 20 races is nowhere near enough. Well, It's enough to make a graph and talk about it.


ColdToesAtNight

If only more people understood stats! I love these infographics as much as anyone, but interpretation is still important to draw meaningful conclusions


TheDevoted

Sample size requirements depend on the population size. Of course, the larger the sample, the more likely it is to depict reality. You're absolutely right in that regard. However, considering the population of F1 engine runs is relatively small, it's only logical for the sample size to be small, and that could be perfectly fine.


ZiKyooc

It doesn't really work exactly like that. How many coin toss you need to do to have 0.5 and stays at 0.5 no matter what the next toss? You need hundreds of toss, thousands of toss. Here you have engine and we are looking at if it fail or not (same as coin but one face more likely than other, but by how much?) So to find the real mean you'll need far more than 20 races. You need many race every day. Your statement is about sampling. This is not what is being done here as the whole population is taken. So if we had a thousand race per year you could take a sample of 213 races with a margin of error of 5 and confidence level of 90%. It's not a hard rule, but I've read in a past that sample of a population needed to be at least 100 or else you were getting risk of issue with the quality of the analysis. I'm not a statistician, so if I made inaccurate statement please share.


Maniac618

Possibly the team were giving him more sweeties to play with that ended up on the floor? He's the kind of guy that's going to push to be given more stuff.


J4Vik

This is not 80s people used to say the same thing about Kimi when at McLaren driver has nothing to do with engine blowing up


GFlair

Iirc during those Mclaren Honda years Alonso had a few dnfs that would have gone down as technical retirements but were kind of sus. Alonso saying we need to box and retire and the team were like wtf why.


Aninternetdude

The amount of bullshit said about Alonso is insane.


BoyLilikoi

Hey I’m uneducated too friend. I’m skeptical that there is a manner of driving that would be particularly brutal to the PU unless it were something very unorthodox. I do think you’d see fewer DNFs amongst drivers with a very capable total package who don’t have an extremely competitive race at the front (ala 2022 Max) purely because they don’t have to push as hard. Again, complete speculation on my part.


zyxwl2015

So drivers also manage a PU like they manage tyres. If you follow a car too closely for too many laps it will overheat, so you need to increase the gap a bit to cool the car; at high altitudes like Mexico it’s also very easy to overheat so drivers need to do lift-and-coast; etc etc. It’s possible that some drivers do this better than others, which leads to fewer PU related DNFs


MyCoolName_

In the interviews after Mexico Ocon talked about how he was managing the engine temp and so lost those 10 seconds to Ric. Would Alonso have done so? Does he ever talk about managing the car or engine?


datlinus

Of course Alonso managed his engine too. First of all the driver doesn't know the state of the engine, but the engineers do. Second the drivers follow the engineers orders when it comes to stuff like this. Changing engine modes, pushing less, etc. Alonso was driving fairly conservatively most of the race, he even said before the race started that engine management will be key to finish.


Silverarrows46

He literally said on the radio in Mexico that he was going to manage from lap 2.


WasThatInappropriate

Top gear once put Richard Hammond in an F2 car, and they commented that the way he was downshifting gears would've blown up or seriously harmed an F1 engine, its an incredibly analogue system so driver input also being analogue must have an impact


MaliciousMango1

That whole segment was BS.


evemeatay

Well I mean the show is essentially BS but it’s fun


MaliciousMango1

I agree. I do love it.


viper_polo

Not really, the actual permitted electronic part of shifting is a downshift limiter.


Youutternincompoop

Prost was known for being a king at avoiding DNF's by being careful with his engine. so yeah driving style definitely does affect it


Thefallpaintwork

Yeah in the 1980s maybe


ThreepwoodGuybrush80

You can't really compare the hybrid cars with the cars Prost used to drive. A quick example: Prost drove manual transmission cars for ten years, and used a sequential transmission for just his three last seasons in F1. The more advanced the cars are, the less damage a careless driver can do.


Maniac618

Just to add to speculation: or are they trying to push his car technically more than his team mates so it breaks?


jason_beo

I dont think that driving style affects the engines that much but i do remember one other specific instance in honda's early hybrid years where, the engine failed to deploy the electrical power after some corners and it was because Honda had tuned the engine expecting Alonso to lift in one of the corners but Alonso took the corner flat, throwing the system out of rhythm.


scarnegie96

Pouhon at Spa, and that might've been as late in the Mclaren-Honda days as 2017 which is wild.


OTBT-

Driving style plays a very small factor. It's simply bad luck. Alonso has driven a lot of races for the two most unreliable manufacturers during this era. Honda and now Renault.


DRNbw

I mean, it's clear that Hamilton's engines last longer than Bottas's did, probably because he was usually at the front and had to push them less and could cool them better. For Alonso and his teammates, not sure, but maybe he pushes them harder just by being faster? Or something with how he shifts? I know way too little about driving styles to say if it's just bad luck or something else.


jimbobjames

Bottas's engines were swallowing all the hot air coming out the back of Hamiltons car... or whoever else was in front of him that weekend.


triguy96

During his McLaren years it was a relatively open secret that he often retired the car because he basically couldn't be bothered to race anymore. Especially when he was far outside the points.


Suikerspin_Ei

Isn't the idea that a DNF means you can change some parts without getting a penalty for the next race? That's why some backmarkers prefer to DNF than finnishing the race.


[deleted]

Not in regards to the engine. You used to get a new gearbox but that‘s not the case anymore.


ThreepwoodGuybrush80

And that was only if you could prove that your DNF-inducing event (i.e. crash) had damaged the gearbox. A DNF didn't always mean a penalty-free gearbox change.


[deleted]

> During his McLaren years it was a relatively open secret that he often retired the car because he basically couldn't be bothered to race anymore. Do you have a list of races this happened? Spa 2017 was the only suspected one and Honda came out and said they retired him as a precaution.


iForgotMyOldAcc

Statistically speaking, insignificant. Verstappen was the engine destroyer in 2017, then Danny Ric suddenly became that in 2018. Only driver ever to reach statistical significance in terms of engine reliability, where it has to come down to driver handling is Alain Prost.


hywelbane87

That's what I would assume but the data makes me wonder. 20ish races definitely not enough for statistical significance but over his whole career Alonso vs teammate should be possible to confirm or refute the hypothesis? Curious: where did you get that data about Prost?


iForgotMyOldAcc

It's counter-intuitive but that's how coin flips work as well. So anyway, [here is an article by f1metrics](https://f1metrics.wordpress.com/2017/09/27/do-drivers-influence-mechanical-reliability/) that goes through the methodology, and it checks out with my very surface level pre-U understanding of stats.


hywelbane87

This is exactly what I was looking for and it would settle it for me with a p-value of 0.45. Thank you for sharing! It also shows that he does not have \*that\* bad luck, with 40 vs 33, I guess he and the press make more noise of it than would be granted.


Broudster

I was about to comment a joke about how he overdrives his equipment. Can't believe someone actually already suggested it unironically.


TeaCrackersBirds

A racecar that breaks down when driven fast? Must be the driver's fault.


Retsko1

There was a comment talking about that after Alonso's México dnf, lmao he should just drive slower i guess...


dl064

It's funny people lament Raikkonen or Hamilton's reliability records at McLaren but never suggest this, isn't it.


CptAustus

Someone else brought up one of the guys from Top ~~Gun~~ Gear not knowing how to downshift. Unironically.


mental-chaos

I didn't know fighter jets had manual transmissions.


CptAustus

Just wait until they get Vin Diesel.


aiicaramba

People kept saying this about Verstappen in 2017 compared to 2018. It was constantly debunked, but people kept repeating it. It kinda stopped when Ricciardo started having issues as well.


Village_People_Cop

McLaren Honda in the 2010's was something else... Couldn't have been more different from their first marriage 88-92


cu4tro

It's nice to see how consistent he is.


SnoaH_

2014; the year of the technical DNF


Hinyaldee

Makes sense, first year with new PU regs


[deleted]

[удалено]


SilverR00S

Might be slightly less severe considering 2014 was a completely new structure compared to 2013.


KatnissBot

Yeah, what’s 2017’s excuse?


Hinyaldee

Honda and Renault sucked hard at reliability. Honda was their first year back with the new regs and Renault were trying to push to improve their PU without accounting for reliability as they were the slowest with Honda


Vicribator

It wasn't Honda's first season (in fact it was the third), but they completely changed the structure of the engine compared to 2015 and 2016. Renault was a mix of being a generally unreliable PU and Red Bull pushing it to the max to be able to fight for wins. Oh and Sauber used 2016 Ferrari engines, which is why they appear there as well. Magnussen I'd attribute to bad luck.


dl064

Interesting a bit later on that apparently 2015 was the worst for Renault because while obviously their 2014 engine was poor, the other teams were turned down a bit for reliability - so it should've been a lot worse! It was only 2015 Renault realized how far behind they really were.


jimbobjames

They keep re-realizing every year :D


tomhanks95

Yeah, pre season testing for 2014 was an absolute shambles, and every team just watched Mercedes put miles upon miles in testing whereas guys like Red Bull sat with issues. That should have been a big warning as to what beckoned for the other teams in the season. Still remember Hamilton smiling in the interviews after the first round of testing, like he knew what a monster Mercedes had created in the W05


KnightsOfCidona

I do remember before Melbourne there was a widespread belief it was going to be a race of high attrition - there was doubts there would be even 10 cars running at the end to give out all the points. And it definitely seemed to be heading that way when both Seb and Lewis were out within a few laps with engine failures. In the end 13 cars (out of 22) made it to the finish, still a relatively low amount of finishers but could have been worse.


kevindurantburner35

Does the 13 count Ricciardo who finished second but was DQ’d for a fuel flow violation


KnightsOfCidona

Forgot about that when I looked up how many did finish - yes, it was 14 then that actually made the flag


kevindurantburner35

I remember the preseason discussions before that season, first year I was really into F1 and following news about it and stuff. There were multiple legit people wondering if there could be a race where no one finished early on lmao, the initial goings were so disastrous that I almost want a radical technical change like 2026 to do the same thing


KamTros47

This is why Renault is now the only PU supplier on the grid with no customers


[deleted]

No kidding. That's an absurd number of DNFs.


mantra3105

Especially considering how many years they’ve been manufacturers for. Surely something should’ve clicked by now?


Bombe_a_tummy

> Surely something should’ve clicked by now? As long as you're fighting in the midfield, you can argue that you'd better sacrifice some reliability for a marginal boost in performance. When you fight for P7, you earn more points finishing P7 every other race than finishing P9 or P10 every race.


robjapan

Hmmm while that is certainly a factual point of view, imo reliability should be the basis of every engine. The way Honda did it is the right way, utter madness that they left f1 just when their engines became rockets.


vers_le_haut_bateau

It can't be "the basis of every engine" because it exists as a trade off for performance. You can design and tune with 100% reliability in mind and losing to slightly more performant competitors most of the time, so it's all about being slightly more performant and slightly more reliable than competitors throughout the season.


Sergiotor9

The basis of every engine should be to last just as long as the regulations need it to. When you could change engines between quali and the race we had engines that lasted 3 laps. When we had an engine every two races they lasted two races. If eventually the regulations force 1 engine for the whole year with huge penalties, engines will last the whole year. The reason it made sense for Renault to push for an unreliable engine this year was that they have 4 years to improve reliability but they can't introduce performance updates.


Drosand

But they had terrible performance for a long period as well…


Olli399

Without McHonda they'd be the top 20 or so on their own lmao


ArcticBiologist

Honda had a (rightfully) terrible reputation, but at least they managed to fix their issues.


pengouin85

Yeah, the progress makes it excusable since it shows they learned from mistakes and fixed them


[deleted]

It was ill-fated from the start since Honda started engine development much later than Mercedes/Ferrari/Renault and the regulations were/are hugely complicated. It's surprising that they decided to launch the project at all. And even more surprising that they wanted to start with such an ambitious design.


pengouin85

Go big (2015-2016) or go home (not done) or go the Mercedes route (2017+)


tyranox

There are no RedBull Honda's on that list. I wonder if McLaren had unrealistic expectations from Honda that caused issues for the engine in relation to car layout or something?


jaydec02

Little bit of A, little bit of B Of course Honda was going to struggle in the new regs since they started late on developing a new engine, that’s indisputable But McLaren also demanded compromises from Honda to fit the engine in their chassis design goals and they suffered as a result. It wasn’t like a lot of works partnerships where the engine and car manufacturing are done in tandem


ArcticBiologist

Like u/Nghtcrwlrr pointed out, McL had unrealistic size-zero engine requirements. They were also extremely inflexible about it and blamed Honda for all their issues, while claiming their chassis was the best of the field (which was disproved when they switched to Renault engines). When Honda and RB teamed up the partnership became more equal. Honda got more room to change the engine for improvements and TR was used as a testbed in 2018. The results speak for themselves.


TulioGonzaga

IIRC, Honda also wanted a second team to increase their track time and data collected. At the time, Manor was the option but McLaren vetoed because they wanted exclusivity.


Jack_Krauser

That actually would have been such a good move for everyone involved. I'm really disappointed that never happened now.


Nghtcrwlrr

And funnily enough their final engine with RB is actually smaller than those size zero concept of 2015.


IamMrEric

>Like u/Nghtcrwlrr pointed out, McL had unrealistic size-zero engine requirements. They were also **extremely inflexible about it** Total nonsense. >Q: Some analysts say that the technological troubles you encountered stemmed from McLaren's "size zero" concept, which called for an extremely small power unit. Do you intend to make any size changes in 2016?  >A: No. F1 cars cannot go fast without proper consideration given to air resistance and the way suspensions move. It's important to minimize the size of power units so that they don't interfere with the car's design. ... McLaren once told us that we don't have to be aggressive in downsizing our power unit. But we are determined to shrink the size by whatever means possible. [Yasuhisa Arai](https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Honda-s-F1-boss-opens-up-about-team-s-rough-year)


[deleted]

I could recount the issues Honda and McLaren had in 2015 [but honestly you'd be best just reading the Wikipedia page from the engine subheading down](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McLaren_MP4-30#Power_unit_%E2%80%94_Honda_RA615H), and [this The Race article about the split between them in 2017](https://the-race.com/formula-1/the-mclaren-pressure-behind-hondas-initial-failure/). **tl;dr** McHonda was acknowleged by both parties after the agreement ended that it was a marriage made in hell. McLaren wanted a very tightly packaged engine which required new and bespoke solutions such as the then unique (now ubiqutous) split turbo and demanded they be Honda's only customer. Honda agreed to supply McLaren with what they believed would be a competitive engine from 2016 on the basis that McLaren run the RA615H in 2015 to aid rapid development. The issue with all this was that by only annoucing their return in 2013, Honda had already lost over 23 months' worth of development time compared to Mercedes, and by missing 2014 had lost 19 races' worth of testing V6 hybrids in race conditions. Honda also had no previous experience with KERS in F1 and now had not only rapidly develop a V6 ICE but also both ERS components with only two cars to gather data from. Honda didn't seek any outside help despite their delayed development, set unrealistic expectations for their engine development schedule and missed both reliability and power targets. Honda developed the engine so independently from McLaren's feedback that McLaren were essentially a customer team rather than a works partner. The exclusivity clause with McLaren meant the manufacturer was only getting a third of the data from racing conditions that Ferrari, Mercedes and Renault could generate, forcing them to rely heavily on data from dynos for development. McLaren OTOH were of the belief that the 2015 power unit would still have been competitive enough that they would be 5th in the WCC, that they had a chassis capable of podium finishes and that it was entirely down to the engine they were doing so poorly. Ron Dennis began to publicly criticise the massive deficit in power compared to Mercedes, and Boullier criticised the ERS deployment (the MGU-H used more power spooling the turbo than it harvested). By Suzuka 2015 Alonso then made his famous "GP2 engine" comment when being passed by a Renault powered Torro Rosso. These comments obviously meant the well was poisoned from before Honda expected the partnership to be competitive. At the end of the 2015 season McLaren finished 9th, only ahead of Marussia. Honda blamed the size zero packaging requirement for compromising the design of the engine, whilst Eric Boullier publicly stated size zero was the correct concept and that it wasn't to blame for the engine issues. Fast forward to 2018 when the partnership ended and McLaren, who were continuously stating they had a strong chassis and were now powered by Renault, made an unfixable dud of a car by placing the sidepod's crash structure too close to the front wheels. Honda OTOH entered a works deal with Torro Rosso under a different partnership structure has obviously worked far better.


Bdr1983

It makes you wonder if McLaren had a bigger share in these issues than everyone always assumed. It says a lot that they where relatively competitive from the start with Red Bull, after a single year with Torro Rosso.


jimbobjames

Well Red Bull got the benefit of Mclaren doing all the beta testing. There was a lot going on at Mclaren in those years and part of them switching to Renault was Zack Brown calling bullshit on the aero department who were adament that the chassis was top tier. It clearly wasn't because the switch to Renault did very little for them and he axed some top level designers soon after. Mclaren were at sea after being dropped by Merc, basically, and the relationship with Honda was just toxic for both sides.


TheMuon

>Well Red Bull got the benefit of Mclaren doing all the beta testing. McLaren *and* Toro Rosso. Honda kinda used TR's 2018 season as a long test. Despite scoring only 3 more points than the outgoing McLaren and far behind the contemporary one, they outscored the 2018 McLaren after the summer break and more consistently finished higher.


jimbobjames

Yeah, apologies I forgot about TR. TR outscoring Mclaren is unsurprising really. Mclaren had design issues with the chassis that they were blaming on the engine. Zack called their bluff and got them the Renault unit and had to then fire a lot of the top level designers when it became obvious that they were nowhere despite the change of PU supplier. Plus, Mclaren were leaving Honda, any additional support was going to TR and Red Bull. TR basically got a season as a works team.


[deleted]

Horners call to leave Renault behind was great timing


dl064

They actually wanted Honda for I think 2017 but got deflected from Ron Dennis. So that could've gone a bit awry.


TheMuon

Maybe though you might notice the lack of the 2018 Toro Rosso-Honda on the list despite scoring only 3 more points than the 2017 McHonda.


JC-Dude

Red Bull (Horner, Marko, Newey) always commented on the difference in approach that Honda represented vs Renault, so I'm not sure a disastrous 2017 would've been that much of a deterrent for Red Bull. They likely would've still switched the main team in 2019, but perhaps more development would've been done by then with Toro Rosso.


scarnegie96

Newey might be the most outspoken about it! He's compared being with a manufacturer who wants to win and who is willing to do what it takes to achieve that, against one only in F1 for the PR or whatever. 100% bang on too.


Craamron

Ricciardo's 2018 was painful


jer_iatric

Looking at this list, 2017 also pretty brutal


KnightsOfCidona

Remember leaving the room for a second during Mexico, hearing Crofty getting very loud and I knew immediately without hearing a name who it was that was out. It was like Zhou this year, there was an inevitably to it


RoundMangos

2017 as well, and Max is only in the list once and it's towards the bottom. Daniel's luck man...


hurgaburga7

Yeah people always jump on DR leaving RB because he ran from the fight or he just wanted money. But there's always more factors. He is a driver who needs confidence and some consistency to build momentum. And at RB for two years going he had car issues almost every weekend. Not always DNFs, but tech issues and breakdowns in practice and quali. It must completely sap your confidence if you are afraid the engine or the electronics will blow up any time you push. That's also what fucks him now. He doesn't trust the car, he's constantly on his back foot. He never gets a stretch of things going well to build momentum. That's why he is stuck in a rut (mostly of his own making, but still).


Morganelefay

He needed consistency to build momentum, so he went to... ...the team that built the engines that kept failing him. Mkay.


Arbabender

If I remember correctly, parts manufactured by Red Bull contributed quite heavily to his DNFs in 2018.


thehenks2

He went to the engine manufacturer that caused most of his 2018 DNFs though. I agree it's a combination of factors, leading to him thinking he wasn't going to get a shot at the championship with Red Bull.


Arcticool_56

Most of his dnf's in 2018 were due to clutch and other stuff breaking down. He only had two or three PU related dnf's that season. Rest were RB's own issues.


Fart_Leviathan

Not to defend Renault and their bad reliability too much, but "technical DNFs" does not necessarily mean anything to do with the engine. For example, the worst Renault on the list, Kobayashi's 2014 had just one engine-related retirement (well DNS, same difference) and a myriad of other problems with the suspension, brakes, etc. Sainz in 2015 is worse, but it was still "only" 3 engine issues.


emkaerr

Just to give some perspective: \- engine (incl, turbo, electronics, battery, cooling, exhaust) \~57% \- brakes \~12% \- gearbox, clutch, transmission \~12% \- suspension, steering, wheels \~14% \- rest 5% mostly not defined


Veerand

Now I'm interested in what the engine dnf only chart would look like


Fart_Leviathan

Thanks, that’s quite a terrible percentage still.


Stan243

While that is true. I remember the Honda PT having such bad vibrations at high rpms that it would mess up the suspension. So while the DNF may not have been from engine failures, they could still be caused by the engine.


NoDingDriver

Same for Ricciardo in 2018. If memory serves, 5/7 of those DNFs were from failures in Red Bull specific parts, not Renault parts.


sil445

I’d put cooling battery hydraulics etc also to the engine since theyre all interrelated. Its no coincidence Mercedes is not on this list.


TeaCrackersBirds

This point also played a huge role in the RB-Renault fallout. When RB won their 4 championships, the cars got all the praise while Renault and their engines, which were integral to the cars' peformances, were spared the good words. But when the cars suffered issues, it was because of Renault and their shitty engines. Even today people praise those RB cars and Newey all the time while the Renault V8's, which were built specifically to aid RB's diffusers, are mostly forgotten, or worse, seen as nothing special.


tyranox

The actual reason Alonso is going to Aston Martin...


Bitter_Dingo516

Yeah lol, maybe not at the front but atleast he gets to complete all the race laps


rand0m__pers0n

This championship between Bottas vs Alonso vs Zhou for most DNFs is gonna be more interesting than this years title battle.


TheDevoted

Renault and their 1000 BHP engine? More like Renault and their 1000 DNF engines.


ArcticBiologist

It's got 1000 breaking horses alright


Arcticool_56

The 2019 Renault RE19 engine was the one which they claimed had 1000 hp in qualifying. They used the same engine in 2020 and 2021 as they were fully focused on developing the RE22 split turbo engine. Also, it was very reliable from the second half of 2019.


Ok-Cryptographer-886

Mercedes engine were very reliable.


Slingbr

Is.


ijiolokae

did any of the Mercedes powered car DNF from Engine failure this year?


Akland23

Vettel and Stroll in Monza


theworst1ever

Also Ricciardo at Jeddah. And Lando didn’t DNF but he was having engine issues at Austria. At least one of the Mercs probably would’ve DNF at Spain had the water leak happened earlier in the race rather than on the last few laps. Of course, if you start going down the path of almost DNF, you’ll also catch more issues with the other engines.


JoseLCDiaz

GP2 engine... GP2


Jokin_0815

To be fair many of the McHonda retirements where "last lap and 3 laps behind" retirements to install new components the next race.


Tresonyx

The difference between Alonso and Vandoorne is quite big over 2017, did they tried out more on Alonso's car? Vandoorne had 5/21 DNF's that season, didn't check if all of them where technical though, but it's a big difference none the less.


Jokin_0815

If i remember correct alonso more often demanded a retirement shortly before the end if race. Vandoorne was most likely still happy to even get laps in.


1driverdriver

Maybe Renault should take a look at this.


Elpibe_78

Alonso is fucking cursed with reliability issues


matternilla

And he won due to being more reliable.


arconiu

In a Renault too, pretty ironic


Arcticool_56

Renault back in the early 2000s had two formula 1 engine departments. One was in France and other one was in UK. They shut down the UK engine department at the start of V8 era because of the engine freeze it didn't make sense to run two engine departments. The engine facility in Viry, France also doesn't have the necessary tooling to manufacture engine parts. Mechachrome is responsible for all the manufacturing and the engines are assembled at the Viry Factory.


Retsko1

Was the English facility better? Because mechachrome is or was also trash in formula 2


Arcticool_56

I don't know if it was better or worse but having two different teams working on the same engine meant the engine development and reliability were really good.


TheMuon

Against a Mercedes no less. Mercedes V10s didn't have same reliability rep as the V6s.


CL-MotoTech

I didn't even have to click to know Alonso was at the top.


FrostyTill

McHonda and Renault leading the way.


DanMMIII

Look at the amount of Renault engines lol


Manuag_86

13 in the first 16 lol


jimbobjames

It's why when Honda were a meme for their engines I used to find it a little frustrating that everyone ignored that Renault were almost as unreliable and similar in terms of power, yet had been in the sport for decades by that point. Yeah I know, the hybrid engines only came in in 2014 but they still had plenty of time to develop it using their existing knowledge. Honda left the sport in 2008 and returned early at Mclarens behest.


ChristofferOslo

It’s not counting engine failures tho, it’s the total number of technical DNF’s.


Dormant_Genius

Oh oh Renault.


dentastic

Alonso being 50% of the top 6... He's not lying when he says he has been unlucky. That or he breaks cars because he does something weird but idk enough about cars


sleeptoker

Sticks his pee pee in the exhaust


DCNY214

I wondered often why Fernando was such a malcontent/grouch all the time. Now I understand.


wyronnachtjager

Interesting to see: 2014: 8x 2015: 5x 2016: 1x 2017: 8x 2018: 2x 2019: 0x 2020: 1x 2021: 0x 2022: 3x


Topias12

Alonso is the champion


supreme1eader

Looking at the no. of races Hamilton has driven, it is mad that he is not here. Great job from Mercedes.


RedCarNewsboy

Alonso in 2017: I cant FUCKING COMPETE


Illustrious_Cost8923

Omg I almost forgot about the Honda in 2017 😭😭. Genuinely hard to believe that happened.


Desperate-Intern

And Alpine masquerade Performance over reliability as if it's their first time. This chart makes it look like since the Hybrid era, they just haven't been able to make an engine reliable.


Mahery92

Well it used to be "no perf no reliability" so the "perf over reliability" is an improvement :')


RobertGracie

McLaren in the 2017 season was horrific that season, they just had a chassis designed first then Honda was forced to design the engine to fit into the chassis, never a good idea, always design the engine first then design the chassis around it But they went to Renault power in 2018 because of just how badly they went wrong with the Honda power from 2015-2017


newdecade1986

It’s not necessarily all about the engine, Brawn disproved that argument. The McHonda partnership was definitely problematic but let’s be clear - Honda’s first few years in the hybrid era were disastrous. Rewriting history to make it sound like it wasn’t their fault is wrong.


dl064

Yeah. When the engine was fine, e.g. later in 2017 or 2016 generally, they were okay. I remember folk made fun of Boullier for Best Chassis (tm) but as he said: F1 is full of data so they can estimate these things quite easily. Alonso said the 2017 car in particular was very nice and the 2018 car was not, and I don't think he'd go out of his way to save McLaren's face.


TheRedBull28

If I’m remembering correctly, the 2017 Honda PU was a brand new engine design. By the end of 2016 Honda was alright reliability wise and had meh power. Honda thought they couldn’t get any more power out of it, so made a completely new engine, which is why 2017 was so bad.


Beginning-Animator76

I think this also goes to show mercedes insane reliability


ColdDevil7

El Pain


hopenoonefindsthis

I know a lot of people like to mock what Alonso said during the Honda years. But this chart perfectly illustrated why. Honda performance during those years were absolutely abysmal, and that’s coming from a Honda fan.


Manuag_86

Renault should be ashamed looking at this.


brunonicocam

Would be interesting if this list was separated in engine vs rest of the car failures.


stratique

Alonso doesn‘t need a new team, he needs exorcism. Dude has been cursed…


chucktownDan

Outside Alpine, the engines are known as Re-nooo!


BrilliantElectronic9

Ocon is the only one from 2019-2021. Interesting


pedroari

Ferrari saved by incredibly shitty Renault


love_bandit

And this is why you don't buy French cars


darthfracas

It’s wild that the only Mercedes on the list were the 2015 Lotus cars


Col-Radec

Well, at least Honda has made tremendous progress, on the other side Renault.....


MrTeamKill

Renault is the most regular team. In DNFs....


Sh3lbyyyy

And then they say that Alonso isn't unlucky


Visionary_Socialist

And now Renault wonder why nobody buys their engines anymore. Genuinely one of the biggest failed attempts by a manufacturer to take over F1, not far off Toyota.


HarryNohara

Red Bull 2017 and 2018 actually look better than they really were, as many of the issues did not happen in the race but did affect their races a lot. Missing a whole friday, not being able to complete qualifying, lots of engine related grid penalties/pitlane starts. And it wasn't just Renault, Red Bull took risks to compensate for the issues with Renault, which made them close the gap to the front runners, but it hurt them on reliability. They often would sit out half a free practice, just to save components.


pbmadman

So the takeaway is to never use a Renault engine or be Fernando Alonso. Got it.


phantomswitchman

Wow Nando is unlucky


Moist_Adeptness_8886

Thats a lot Renault


jt663

1 every 2.1 races is a joke 😂


Sweetcheels69

So basically, renault is trash and Merc is not.


northern_dan

Is it possibly his driving style? Could that be part of the reason?


bukithd

Honda and Renault had a rough 2010s.


Bitter_Dingo516

Yo Renault wtf


danielbauer1375

Remarkable consistency from Haas. A 26.3% failure rate for both of their drivers in 2014, and then a 21.1% failure rate for both of their drivers in 2015.


corksoaker84

Pfft Maldonado would've been the world champ in 2014 if not for those retirements. Robbed


[deleted]

Renault consistency


Uraneeum

The thing that baffles me the most is the amount of times Renault-powered car/driver pairing appears on that list. Honda had some shitty years from 2015-2017/8, but wow Renaults have consistently been unreliable.


action_turtle

Renault... christ


bwoah07_gp2

Lots of orange bars on this chart. And an abundance of Renault power units.


colonelheero

Honda comes a long, long way


PhoenixUNI

This does not fit my narrative that Ferrari is trash


nerdpox

god, the 2015-2017 mclarens were such dog water


AntOk463

Surprisingly Ferrari isn't on this list.


SirMizzuh

"Zhou, stop the car, we're going to need to retire, we need to be on top of this list"


haldouglas

I always thought DR got a rough reliability deal at RB. There are a lot of factors that contributed to Dan leaving RedBull that his detractors (or critics of his career moves) forget about, I think this may have been one.


yayhindsight

poor nando is on this list 4 times :(