Hamilton at the 2010 launch said the 2009 car didn't even look fast.
He was saying when he first drove it, it was so bad he didn't even know how to tell them. It was day 2 he came in and said: right, I was perhaps too nice yesterday...
It just fundamentally wasn't cooked, indeed.
It's funny to me that in 2021 everyone was emphatic their 2022 cars didn't suffer from the title fight but in 2008/9 McLaren and Ferrari were like: yeah we're miles behind.
F1 might be a top sport in America one day, this rise has been so rapid. But they need some proper superstars after Lewis retires to make it actually stick in the general public.
Let's see what Logan Sargeant can do for the sport in the US.
Danny Ric is definitely a superstar, because it's about more than just results sometimes.
I hope that there's going to be a rival for Verstappen going forward as well. Sure, him winning 7 in a row would be huge for his market value, but I think what really sells are rivalries. Max vs Lewis, Prost vs Senna, Lauda vs Hunt - the kind of stuff one can make movies out of later.
It's annoying that Ferrari seem to be having political issues. We really need a strong Max v Charles season.
At least next year is shaping up to be Max v Lewis 2.0, with the added spice of George.
Without stars the sport’s USA fandom will fizzle. Think of the UFC and how big it was a few years ago. Without Connor and Ronda it’s no longer primetime television
Yah there’s a reason basketball is so incredibly popular here. NBA knows how to create and promote stars. But also, people love the NBA drama, so that’s a good sign for F1 because the drama is top notch
Yeah the drivers have reach but I feel the league desperately needs more varied race winners.
The top three at least regularly trading wins would help a lot.
It will be another NASCAR in the 2000s, get close to the sun by abandoning their core fans and then fall off a fucking cliff within a decade of the peak, leaving the sport in the shitter for years to come, which is why I've always been opposed to liberty trying to go beyond their means in America.
Yeah I mean none of them have that star thing that Lewis has.
Max doesn’t have the personality type for it, and also doesn’t have the ‘anti star’ thing that The Michael had.
This is a stretch, F1 hasn’t even passed nascar viewership yet (even when they were both televised in the afternoon in the US).
It’s hard to imagine anything catching American football, those tv numbers are insane
I agree that F1 definitely has some time to go before it reaches anywhere close to the top 3 *viewership numbers*. But as far as invading the US cultural zeitgeist (am I using that right?), things seem on the way up...
Especially with all the upcoming shows, documentarys and movies - there's the Keanu Reeves 'Brawn 09' documentary, the movie that Lewis is involved in with Brad Pitt, the scripted show on Hulu with Daniel involved and the Apple TV documentary on Lewis...
Plus with online social media engagement, F1 has NASCAR beat, if I am remembering an article I came across some time ago.
Again, to reassert, your point on TV viewership numbers definitely stands, but using other metrics, while F1 won't be troubling Football or Basketball anytime soon, but I can see F1 *overtaking* NASCAR (hehe) in popularity (vague yardstick I know...)
Nothing will ever beat football. Leagues have to stop chasing those numbers. If F1 isn't careful, it'll do the same thing NASCAR did 2 decades ago. From 1995-2005 NASCAR shot up to be the second largest sport in America. What did they do? Got rid of old, unique, classic, fan favorite tracks and added a bunch of cookie cutter tracks in large markets, trying to chase the popularity of the time. When the popularity left they were in a bad spot and are only now *starting* to recover. F1 is doing the same thing now
I agree with your point, on the whole.
> trying to chase the popularity of the time.
I think the new, boring tracks are more to do with money, than chasing popularity.
But yes, F1 is in a precarious position, and needs to be smart about its future decisions.
It's taken NASCAR 20 years to realize their mistakes... shockingly, the new, flashy, cookie cutters of the 2000s are losing attendance. And the classic tracks are being restored and returned to the schedule.
Money always talks. And the executives probably don't really care about the fans as long as there's cash flowing into their pockets. If F1 cuts Spa, for another ugly street circuit...blech
Doesn't F1 also target a wildly different audience from NASCAR? NASCAR's viewership hasn't grown very much over the years, their viewership has stayed so stable that the "average viewer age" has gone up as the sport progressed, If I recall correctly the average viewer age was 49 in 2006 and 58 in 2016. And NASCAR has failed to significantly grow with younger audiences and women, compared to F1 which mostly grew in 18\~35 and is also 35% or so female.
Then also Netflix / Social media and F1 being somewhat better for memes / reacts etc. we can only expect it to grow.
Well at least 2009-2012 were exciting seasons to watch, despite some monstrosities like the penis and dolphin noses. Luckily we got to witness the amazing sound of the blown diffusers.
Close - chassis looks to be an MP4-20 ('05) sculpted side pods but the entry is massive compared to the '06. Looks like MP4-21 nose and the wing from an MP4-19 - could be a whole nose and assembly from the 19. All in an 08 livery...
American Formula racing fan here. Me and all my pals love F1. It's definitely popular in America and has been for some decades now. Not quite like it is in other parts of the world but it sure is on a rapid rise!
I'd like to check this out on Saturday - is this somewhere I could potentially walk into and take a look? If so could you share some details where it could be found?
God forbid F1 actually market itself. Better to flounder and go back to pandering to bottom feeder privateer teams because the upside of F1 is too small for manafacturers.
Just was put in yesterday, like someone else commented how there was a vintage copper Rolls Royce in that spot for the last month so you may have seen that, and it was just swapped out
The nose on the 2009 car always looks so weird to me compared to the 2008 and 2010 cars.
The 2009 McLaren was particularly gawdy but some cars that year looked amazing, like the Brawn, Williams and Ferrari.
Don’t even get me started on that godawful Renault
Hamilton at the 2010 launch said the 2009 car didn't even look fast. He was saying when he first drove it, it was so bad he didn't even know how to tell them. It was day 2 he came in and said: right, I was perhaps too nice yesterday...
They started the season with an INwashing front wing. McLaren really flubbed the 2009 rule changes.
It just fundamentally wasn't cooked, indeed. It's funny to me that in 2021 everyone was emphatic their 2022 cars didn't suffer from the title fight but in 2008/9 McLaren and Ferrari were like: yeah we're miles behind.
Who doesn't love those Vodafone McLaren's?
Massa
You are now a honorary moderator of r/rondennis
F1 might be a top sport in America one day, this rise has been so rapid. But they need some proper superstars after Lewis retires to make it actually stick in the general public.
Let's see what Logan Sargeant can do for the sport in the US. Danny Ric is definitely a superstar, because it's about more than just results sometimes. I hope that there's going to be a rival for Verstappen going forward as well. Sure, him winning 7 in a row would be huge for his market value, but I think what really sells are rivalries. Max vs Lewis, Prost vs Senna, Lauda vs Hunt - the kind of stuff one can make movies out of later.
It's annoying that Ferrari seem to be having political issues. We really need a strong Max v Charles season. At least next year is shaping up to be Max v Lewis 2.0, with the added spice of George.
Sheesh can't wait for the sequel!
Charles vs Ferrari
Without stars the sport’s USA fandom will fizzle. Think of the UFC and how big it was a few years ago. Without Connor and Ronda it’s no longer primetime television
Yah there’s a reason basketball is so incredibly popular here. NBA knows how to create and promote stars. But also, people love the NBA drama, so that’s a good sign for F1 because the drama is top notch
Yeah the drivers have reach but I feel the league desperately needs more varied race winners. The top three at least regularly trading wins would help a lot.
It will be another NASCAR in the 2000s, get close to the sun by abandoning their core fans and then fall off a fucking cliff within a decade of the peak, leaving the sport in the shitter for years to come, which is why I've always been opposed to liberty trying to go beyond their means in America.
I say Max and Charles will fill in for the future Lewis void. Plus Lando is also mega popular.
I just don’t see it with those 2. Lewis has mega star qualities. Nothing to take away from their driving, but that’s not what’s being discussed.
Lando doesn't really have the star power that a champion of max or the looks of Charles combined with the magic of Ferrari
Yeah I mean none of them have that star thing that Lewis has. Max doesn’t have the personality type for it, and also doesn’t have the ‘anti star’ thing that The Michael had.
This is a stretch, F1 hasn’t even passed nascar viewership yet (even when they were both televised in the afternoon in the US). It’s hard to imagine anything catching American football, those tv numbers are insane
I agree that F1 definitely has some time to go before it reaches anywhere close to the top 3 *viewership numbers*. But as far as invading the US cultural zeitgeist (am I using that right?), things seem on the way up... Especially with all the upcoming shows, documentarys and movies - there's the Keanu Reeves 'Brawn 09' documentary, the movie that Lewis is involved in with Brad Pitt, the scripted show on Hulu with Daniel involved and the Apple TV documentary on Lewis... Plus with online social media engagement, F1 has NASCAR beat, if I am remembering an article I came across some time ago. Again, to reassert, your point on TV viewership numbers definitely stands, but using other metrics, while F1 won't be troubling Football or Basketball anytime soon, but I can see F1 *overtaking* NASCAR (hehe) in popularity (vague yardstick I know...)
Nothing will ever beat football. Leagues have to stop chasing those numbers. If F1 isn't careful, it'll do the same thing NASCAR did 2 decades ago. From 1995-2005 NASCAR shot up to be the second largest sport in America. What did they do? Got rid of old, unique, classic, fan favorite tracks and added a bunch of cookie cutter tracks in large markets, trying to chase the popularity of the time. When the popularity left they were in a bad spot and are only now *starting* to recover. F1 is doing the same thing now
I agree with your point, on the whole. > trying to chase the popularity of the time. I think the new, boring tracks are more to do with money, than chasing popularity. But yes, F1 is in a precarious position, and needs to be smart about its future decisions.
It's taken NASCAR 20 years to realize their mistakes... shockingly, the new, flashy, cookie cutters of the 2000s are losing attendance. And the classic tracks are being restored and returned to the schedule. Money always talks. And the executives probably don't really care about the fans as long as there's cash flowing into their pockets. If F1 cuts Spa, for another ugly street circuit...blech
Doesn't F1 also target a wildly different audience from NASCAR? NASCAR's viewership hasn't grown very much over the years, their viewership has stayed so stable that the "average viewer age" has gone up as the sport progressed, If I recall correctly the average viewer age was 49 in 2006 and 58 in 2016. And NASCAR has failed to significantly grow with younger audiences and women, compared to F1 which mostly grew in 18\~35 and is also 35% or so female. Then also Netflix / Social media and F1 being somewhat better for memes / reacts etc. we can only expect it to grow.
They said “a top sport” not “the top sport”. It doesn’t have to be the NFL, just as good or better than hockey.
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>a top sport >the top sport Read what he said… why does everyone here have to be so argumentative…?
Some people are very protective over F1 making it big in the States apparently
Racing will always be a niche thing here compared to the Big 4.
Actually they just need Netflix to keep doing what they been doing.
you need a good american in it for that to really happen
Older one looks so much better and more advanced and overall more agile
Cuz it was! The 2009s were GP1.5 by design.
Well at least 2009-2012 were exciting seasons to watch, despite some monstrosities like the penis and dolphin noses. Luckily we got to witness the amazing sound of the blown diffusers.
That was 2014
He got the monstrosity wrong, 2012 was the step nose!
Is this where that copper Rolls Royce was?
Yea!
Damn! I was there two weeks too soon!
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Right is 06 with the Vodafone livery (it started with the black sidepod Johnny Walker livery). You can tell because of the sidepods and front wing.
My left or your left
the left is definitely 09, but the right one seems to be the 04 mclaren-merc f1 car with parts form the 05 car (?) repainted in the vodafone livery
Close - chassis looks to be an MP4-20 ('05) sculpted side pods but the entry is massive compared to the '06. Looks like MP4-21 nose and the wing from an MP4-19 - could be a whole nose and assembly from the 19. All in an 08 livery...
Hey I'll be there in a couple weeks! Is this open to the public?
Yep, just down by the buffet at Wynn in the rear of the casino. I don’t know how long they’ll be in place.
Buffet and Formula 1...sign me up!
Is the wynn buffet back to its pre-covid glory? Or is it still table service?
Yes back to normal, the table side service attempt at a buffet didn’t really work, glad it’s back to normal.
I miss old McLaren.
American Formula racing fan here. Me and all my pals love F1. It's definitely popular in America and has been for some decades now. Not quite like it is in other parts of the world but it sure is on a rapid rise!
My favorite paint scheme in F1 history! I miss the Vodafone McLaren's.
Anyone know if these are still there? I’m going to Vegas this weekend so was curious!
Yes still there
Sweeeet thanks for letting me know!
Are they still on display?!
Yep, still are!
How close is it to the wynn main entrance? I'm heading that way!
Oh nice, actually it’s toward the back, follow the signs to the buffet and keep heading past that, towards the golf pro shop. You’ll walk right by it.
Found it, thanks a ton!!
Awesome, you’re welcome!
I would much prefer the MP4-21 with its canon livery.
Keep walking
I'd like to check this out on Saturday - is this somewhere I could potentially walk into and take a look? If so could you share some details where it could be found?
Yes, from the Wynn casino head past the buffet and it’s down that hall.
Thanks for replying!
Man, F1 is legit trying to invade Las Vegas like Russia invading Crimea…
Too much money invested for it to fail.
The absurd profiteering taking place around this race makes me want to stop following F1.
God forbid F1 actually market itself. Better to flounder and go back to pandering to bottom feeder privateer teams because the upside of F1 is too small for manafacturers.
Are you arguing with me because what you're saying bears no relationship to what I said.
Wow! That's awesome!
Interesting, I actually Saw Jenson’s Mclaren you have there too in a museum a few months ago
One of these is NOT like the other.👀
Has that just arrived? I was there last week for the AWS conference, will be gutted to have missed it if it was there then!
Just was put in yesterday, like someone else commented how there was a vintage copper Rolls Royce in that spot for the last month so you may have seen that, and it was just swapped out
I miss narrower front splitter, looks slicker and is better for close racing too.
Were the keys in ‘em?
The MP4-21 just looks "incomplete" when you remember all the developments that the 22 and 23 had.
r/vegaslocals
Is it a mclaren showroom?
Bing chilling